yourself but what we can do is change products and that's what we're doing. if you remove the algorithms which is one of the central recommendations, the first thing that would happen is people would see more, not less hate speech, more not less information because these algorithms are designed precisely to work almost like giant spam filters. if our algorithms are so nefarious as some people suggest, why is it that it's precisely the systems that have succeeded to reduce the privileges of hate speech on our platforms to as little as 0.05%. >> the cow phoneder of elevation partners and an early investor in facebook and he has since become a vocal critics of the company with the book "zucked, waking up to the facebook catastrophe." pleasure to see you. >> pleasure to be here, fredericka. >> more than ten years ago we see mark zuckerberg person of the year. fast forward to the year and we see the same face in a very different light. what happened? >> so fredericka, i think the fundamental issue here is that facebook found a business model in 2013 where it used algorithmic implications along with recommendations along with this massive supply of data which it used surveillance to essentially create a model of each and every one of us that it can use to both predict our behavior and then with a recommendation to manipulate it and when nick clegg comes out and says that their algorithms reduce hate speech, disinformation and conspiracy theories, that's exactly backwards. the way the business model works is that they want to amplify and they want to make that stuff more prevalent because it gets the attention of people. we can't help but look, and in that process we create huge profits for facebook, for instagram, for utubing, for tiktok, for all the companies that use this kind of a business model. >> and we heard that in the testimony about the discovery. the research and adjustments made. almost looking the other way and continuing on with profit so how did that original vision of facebook connecting you with friends load to this point? >> i think it was really simple. facebook in the early days, the days when i was involved, was really good at that basic function of letting you communicate with those you are closest to. the problem is there wasn't a lot of money in that. and google proved that there was a model of use of data and models of each individual person to basically predict their behavior and sell that to advertisers, and facebook spent years trying to figure out how to apply that model to its business and when they figured it out they made a very simple choice which by the way almost every business in our economy does something similar which said we're going to maximize the value to our investors which is mostly mark zuckerberg. we're going to maximize that value no matter what. they have done this persistently in spite of new massive internal research which is what the whistle-blower shared. that wasn't theirs. that was their open work done for their management team. right. >> the problem isn't the making money part. the problem is making the discoveries that this can be a harmful platform for many and to not do anything to resolve that or instead continue to profit. that message was loud and clear through that testimony and then you yourself, you've laid out, you know, that a lot of this country's deep-seeded problems about misinformation and racism is on facebook's doorstep is what we've been seeing, is evident in facebook. did the whistle-blower's testimony validate what you and others have been saying for a very long time. >> i would say that the whistle-blower has the potential to be the turning point because she -- first of all, she's incredibly courageous to do what she did to bring the documents out but she's also authoritative. her expertise in algorithms, but lastly she was incredibly convincing, both on the "60 minutes" piece and in front of the senate, and i think the key thing is i think the stuff she brought out was the biggest experts inside facebook working at the behest of management to look at problems that people like me had been talking about. they proves every one of these things was a much bigger problem than even i had been suggest the and in doing so management was faced with a point. they could optimize profits but do not do both. they chose profits which i say they are not the only company that does that. facebook has 3 billion people connected with each other so pad ideas that normally exist on the fringe of society are brought into the mainstream, hate, qanon, anti-vaxx, all of these things have been brought into the mainstream and really undermined our civilization and our culture. >> and you say congressional legislation is needed rather urgently and facebook's vice president nick clegg agrees to a degree that there should be a legislation that should play a part in the company's future or the future of other social media platforms. listen. >> section 230 as you know gives online platforms protection from liability for the content that passes on their platforms. i think the way to perhaps change section 230, my suggestion would be to make that protection which is afforded to online companies like facebook contingent on them applying the systems and their policies as they are snowed to and if they fail to do that then they would have that liability protection removed. >> is that enough in your view, some changes to section 230 or is it something more? >> much, muff more. i mean, mr. clegg's job is to gaslight us and make us, you know, believe him instead what have we can see with our own eyes. what i recommend is three areas. safety, privacy and competition. i think technology products, not just facebook, but real all over the industry are unsafe today, and we need something that's like the food and drug administration that evaluates categories and says wait a minute, you can't do this at all. i would do that with facial recognition and there are others that should not be allowed into the market and everything else should be certified every year. they have to demonstrate that they are safe and if they have a failure they have to pay a huge fine. on privacy, this is the place where i think facebook, youtube, tiktok are so guilty. >> mm-hmm. >> and they have too much information on us, and it gives us power over us, the ability to control our options. you think about digital red lines or predictive policing or resume review, where the biasses of the data sets deprive people of opportunities, and then you think about facebook, the way that it pushed people into anti-vaxx groups and the way it pushed people into stop the steal effectively people to believe things that really aren't true. we real need to prohibit surveillance capital in its entirety or if you can't do that, or at least ban the use of health information, location, web browsing history, all sorts of intimate details just should not be part of that marketplace, and then lastly just one last point. >> yeah, go ahead. >> we need to update antitrust law for the 21st century century. these companies too big. facebook failed and millions of businesses were deprived of their livelihood. >> your message is loud and clear and flow reign on so many issues has to be reeled in or ended all together. thank you so much. appreciate it. >> entirely my pleasure, fredericka. hope to see you again soon. >> i'm sure you will. we're following breaking news. police in st. paul, minnesota, say they have arrested throw men in connection to a mass shooting at a food hall overnight. one person was killed. 14 others were wound all of whom are expected to survive. the three men arrest were injured. police say once released from the hospital they will be taken to jail to await a charging decision. the words from the police there. the victim killed was a woman in her 20s. her name has not yet been released. investigators have not said what prompted the shooting. all right. still to come. remarkable rescue. a 3-year-old boy missing for four days in the woods in texas is found safe. i'll talk to someone on the search team who calls this nothing short of a miracle. with mucinex nightshift you've got powerful relief from your worst nighttime cold and flu symptoms. so grab nightshift to fight your symptoms, get your zzz's... and get back to your rhythm. feel the power. beat the symptoms fast. at vanguard, you're more than just an investor, you're an owner with access to financial advice, tools and a personalized plan that helps you build a future for those you love. vanguard. become an owner. ♪ darling, i, i can't get enough of your love babe♪ ♪girl, i don't know, i don't know,♪ ♪i don't know why i can't get♪ applebee's. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. ♪ ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark. but with our new multi-cloud experience, you have the flexibility you need to unveil them to the world. ♪ ♪ ♪ your new pharmacy is here. and here. and here, too. it's here to help you save time and money and trips to the pharmacy. it's here to get you the medication you need when you need it. who knew it could be this easy? 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( abbot sonic ) now to this miraculous rescue in texas. a 3-year-old boy has been reunited with his pamly after getting lost in the woods for four days. christopher ramirez apparently wandered away from his home while chasing a neighbor's dog wednesday afternoon. rescue crews launched a massive search for the missing toddler, and a god mayor tan who helped the search crew found christopher saturday morning. he was tired and dehydrated, but otherwise okay. joining us now on the phone is blake jarvis. he is the grimes county constable and helped organize a search for christopher. constable, so glad you could be with us. i'm glad we're able to report on good news. how in the world was little christopher found? >> well, almost a miracle how he was found. it was a complex organization, investigation, that led to his recovery. a good samaritan went and searched the back of his property and lo and behold located christopher. >> what was this property like? describe the conditions of this property and how far away it was from his home that he wandered away from. >> so christopher was found almost five miles away from his home where he went missing. the property is very dense, very wooded, very rough terrain to go through. >> and what kind of condition was christopher in because five miles for a 3-year-old in the woods over a period of days, what kind of condition was he in? >> he was severely dehydrated. he was scarred up. had a lot of mars and browses on from going through the terrain. other than that he was in very stable company. he was glad to be reunited with his mom. he was very happy to see his mom. medical personnel was there immediately to assist his needs medically. >> and sometimes at 3 years old you can be pretty verbal. what has he said, if anything? >> he did talk to his mom some. we haven't really sat down and done a formal interview. that is to come as soon as he gets released from the hospital. he's currently still in the hospital in stable condition. >> so constable, tell me what the last four days have been like while you're searching for this 3-year-old. it started out with he was out in his front yard, right, in his own home or at least on the property, and did he say a neighbor's dog, or was the neighbor's dog just happened to be in the yard and he wandered off with the dog? >> it was actually his dog that was in the yard. he was with his mom. they just came back home. the mom was going to put items in front of the house. he was playing with his own dog and that's when he wandered out of yard brief moment and he went following the dog down the road and ultimately he went into the wooded area. >> my gosh. >> it was a great organization with the grimes county sheriff's office. lieutenant ellis led the search part of it along with the sheriff's office with multiple agencies, state, local, federal level and multiple volunteers from all different organizations and search and rescue organizations. it was a very big group effort. >> wow, so what does it mean for all of you given that this was such a huge group effort that it would end successfully like this? >> well, you almost had to see it to believe it. to witness it, be a part of it, you know, everybody came together with the bolick of an eye. there was no hesitation to get the recourses from red cross to just everybody, other surrounding agencies and volunteers coming from counties everywhere. it was nothing short of remarkable. it was miracle that he was found and that he was safe. >> incredible. grimes county constable blake jarvis, thank you so much and so glad that little christopher is back with his family and everyone is breathing a huge sigh of relief. thank you so much. >> thank you, ma'am. >> all right. coming up, as parents anxiously away covid vaccines for their children questions arise over how to talk to your kids about getting a shot. a child therapist joining me next. ♪ i like it, i love it, i want some more of it♪ ♪i try so hard, i can't rise above it♪ ♪don't know what it is 'bout that little gal's lovin'♪ ♪but i like it, i love it♪ applebee's. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. it's an important time to save. with priceline, you can get up to 60% off amazing hotels. and when you get a big deal... you feel like a big deal. ♪ priceline. every trip is a big deal. 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lot of households, parents wondering how do we have our conversations with our kids between 5 and 11 about the potential of them getting a vaccine? how do you begin that talk? >> begin by opening up a conversation. you know, we so often think that we're going to make it worse if we bring it up or that it will put ideas in our kids' minds but that's just not the case. they are thinking about it anyway and we just want to get right to it and open up a dialogue and then really let them lead the conversation because we really don't know what they are thinking and feeling, and we don't want to assume just because we're feeling a certain way that the same is true for them. >> well, most kids don't like the idea of any shot, let alone now a vaccine, and we're still unclear whether will it be two doses for, you know, kids 5 to 11 like it is for others who are eligible right now. so do you draw a parallel to these kids about oh, remember what it was like to have that flu vaccine if they have had one before, you know, last year. it's kind of like that. i mean, do you try to break it down as simple -- in simple terms like that? >> yeah. absolutely. because anxiety often stems from fear. it's based around fear of the unknown. what's going to happen, and the more we think about all the question marks the more revved up we get so any time you can help connect it to something concrete, something that makes since to them, you're filling in the blanks and you're helping them realize this isn't so bad and i can handle it and that's a beautiful example them of how to teach them to manage their own feelings because similar things will happen in the future and any time you can ground them in something that they know, something tangible, it's going to make them feel a little bit calmer going into it. >> i have two kids under 11, and we've been talking about it openly, and they seem to have grasped the idea that, you know, they are going to be in line for it, but then i've heard from my kids just like i know it's happening in a whole lot of other households, you know, my kids might say but some of my friend and they talk about their family structures who say, you know, they are not encouraging a vaccine or they don't believe in the vaccine so what as parents do we say to our kids who end up getting a different story from their classmates in school? >> yeah. i think that's going to continue to happen. i think the conversation is going to look different for everyone, but grounding them in the facts, grounding them what you know and what you think is important for your family, and then i think it's always a good idea to really talk about tolerance and helping them understand that we can have different views and perspectives and beliefs about things. we can respect that even if we don't really agree with it or we don't want to do that ourselves. >> and this is a real heartbreaker because right now we're -- you know, we're learning more than 140,000 kid in the u.s. have lost a parent or a grandparent who takes care of them because of covid. i mean, it breaks down to one out of 500 children. it's an extraordinary number. what many of these kids must be going through is just unimaginable so what kind of impact do you see it's going to have on a lot of our young people long term? >> yeah. well, a lot of them are going to be experiencing significant grief. i think grief is something that culturally we don't understand well. we have a lot of confusion around it because it's uncomfortable. but what we know to be true with grief it's not linear. there's no timeline. there's no quick fix so we really need to understand that because we'll be dealing with this for a long time and we need to help them get used to expressing their feelings, and we all fall into this trap, even as adults where we want to run from it. we want to run and hide and avoid our feelings because we're scared that if we talk about it that it will get worse, or maybe if i talk about it i won't be able to handle it or people will judge me so i try really hard to step it down and it doesn't make it better. we know what happens. we start having trouble sleeping. we get headaches. we're irritable and we're lark out at people who have done nothing wrong. we want to help kids understand that when you name it, when you express, it it makes it a little bit smaller and makes it a little bit more manageable and over time they are going to become more resilient because they are going to see that that's not so bad. actually it made me feel better and that's what we want because this is not the only thing that they are going to face in life. they are going to have lots of things that are challenging and scary and confusing, so we want to help them understand that if you deal with it, if you use supports, if you learn how to cope in healthy ways it's actually not so bad. >> yeah. well, not suppressing those emotion which are going to be really hard for a lot of young people to grasp on how to handle it, but i understand exactly what you're saying. jody, thank you so much. appreciate your time and expertise. >> thank you. >> thank you and be well. >> thanks. still ahead, tens of thousands of people fled afghanistan to escape taliban rule. next the story of one family adjusting now to a new life in america. >> tech: when you get a chip in your windshield... trust safelite. this couple was headed to the farmers market... when they got a chip. they drove to safelite for a same-day repair. and with their insurance, it was no cost to them. >> woman: really? >> tech: that's service the way you need it. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ with 0% parabens... sulfates... ...and dyes. tresemmé's pro pure collection lets you style without compromise. tresemmé pro pure 0% compromise, 100% you. well, would ya look at that! it was an accident. i was— speaking of accidents, we accidentally left you off the insurance policy during enrollment, and you're not 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violence in afghanistan, one refugee family is beginning their new life in the united states. cnn's pamela brown recently sat down with the jawad family to talk about their experiences. >> every day i feel like i'm starting a new life. >> yes. >> the jawad family arrived in the united states in august after fleeing afghanistan on a special immigrant visa. what was that like when you stepped foot in the u.s.? >> the fresh, all the word that comes to mean, all the greenery, wonderful. >> the jawads were initially on their own when they arrived, living in a bare bones basement apartment, living on the floor and surviving on just enough saved up money for food as they awaited housing help from one of the nine resettlement organizations receiving funds from the u.s. government. >> we have to start everything from zero. >> but they at least felt safe up like their final weeks in afghanistan when the taliban was rapidly taking over many abejawad worked alongside a u.s. defense company and knew the family could be targeted. >> our daughter was our priority and that's what made us work out. i couldn't make myself eat. i was so stressed. since the day we stepped in this country i don't see myself to stop eating. >> the jawads are among an estimated 60,000 afghans resettling in the u.s. after a rapid and chaotic withdrawal from the 20-year war in afghanistan. >> so many of them have gone through a tremendous amount for us that we consider it not only our obligation but quite frankly a privilege to dedicate our resources for them in return. >> but the unprecedented relocation efforts have come with challenges like finding affordable housing and air tight vetting and security procedures for people entering the united states. >> we take their fingerprints. we get their biographical information. we take their photographs. >> do you know of any instances where someone didn't pass the screening and they couldn't come through? >> oh, yes. we have, and quite frankly if we learn of information at any point in time, remember, we have our enforcement authorities as well that we could bring to bear and have brought to bear. >> in september a measles outbreak among afghan refugees halted evacuations for a few weeks, but resettlement efforts have resumed after the cdc made new vaccine and quarantine requirements against infectious diseases including covid-19. where refugees initially end up in the u.s. depends on their status. >> if in fact there are u.s. citizens and u.s. citizens are lawful permanent residents or visa holders, they are actually able to resettle directly into the united states, but if they are not, then they -- they go to one of eight military facilities where a tremendous amount of resources are dedicated to their well-being. >> the u.s. government accommodations for afghans have raised questions about why the same isn't being done for migrants arriving at the southern border in record numbers. >> that the u.s. government was able to set up the system so quickly for afghans, why not set it up so quickly for these are in need coming to the southern border. >> remember, we are working with countries to the south that are dealing with border management challenges themselves. resource constraints and the like so the challenges are very different here than they are with respect to the afghan nationals. >> the jawads are now living in a one-bedroom apartment in virginia that they found through one of the resettlement organizations, but mary whitehill, founder of mary's list, a group that helps incoming refugees, says housing alone is not enough to make refugee families feel at home in the u.s. >> imagine you're coming to a new country, being dropped off. we can intervene to make sure that the arrival is a completion to the refugee experience and the beginning of a resettlement experience. these are our newest americans. we have a tremendous opportunity to show up for them. >> the jawad family gave them comfort items like this handmade blanket and toys for their daughter and comfortable beds to sleep in. >> okay. we need beds and she said what type of beds and that was surprising to me and i said okay we get to choose. >> they will be on their own for paying rent after two months and are both looking for work, one is an accountant and asoura continuing her purr south of becoming a heart surgeon. i did my md and i was halfway to become a heart surgeon. i was in the third year of my residency. it's a five-year program but i had to leave. i hope i can do something to be useful to the society. >> the department of homeland security says it's working to match skills from eligible afghans with job opportunities in the u.s., and there are many ways that you can help. mary says the easiest way is a handwritten note welcoming a family here. can you go to matter'slist.org and click on list and find refugee families to help directly. and please visit cnn.com/impact for more ways to assist. pamela brown, cnn, 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with you again, fredericka. >> so what is the update, if any, in term of the number of trees that you know, you know, have been burned? >> well, what we know is this. of course, this fire hasn't finished telling its tale. >> yeah. >> so there are additional growths that are threatened so so far the fire has burned in or burned into 15 groves. many of those groves we know that the fire burned at low intensity and so we're hopeful that the damage is not that terrific, but we do know that in at least a couple of the groves the fire did burn at a much higher intensity and with that higher intensity it enables that fire to transition from the ground into the canopies of the trees and that torching is what causes the real destruction to the giant sequoias. it's a little early. we don't know how many trees are affected, maybe dozens, maybe hundreds, but any loss of these monarkz is -- is a great loss and they have been standing for thousands of years. >> oh, my gosh. oh, it is tragic, and, you know, last time you and i were talking you were telling me about the protections being put in place for that general sherman tree, the foil, the heat-resistant, fire-resistant foil and now we're looking at images of when they were actually putting that foil into place. can you give us the status of the general sherman tree or any other measures that out taken like that on other trees. >> yes. general sherman tree is standing untouched. the fire came within about 125 yards of the tree. we did apply this high-tech fiberglass foil wrap around the base of the tree, and that was basically to try to prevent fire from getting into an old fire scar and actually climb through the tree on the interior. the giant forest which is the drove that the general sherman sits in is not out of the woods yet. it's looking very optimistic, but there's still a chance of fire coming in from the other side. i will say though that i think we've turned the corner on this fire. the weather has been much more favorable over the last few days. we have about 2,000 people on it, a lot of agencies working together and so i'm hopeful that we'll be able to prevent any further destruction to groves yet unthreatened and, of course, more importantly to communities around the park. >> in addition to the damaged trees, i understand that four firefighters were hurt by a falling tree in the national park there, and they were hospitalized. can you give us an update on them? >> well, fortunately they are in real good condition. they were working around a giant sequoia grove and securing a line to help protect a community right adjacent to that area, but a very scary day for all of us, but those firefighters are doing very well. >> oh, my goodness. well, clayton jordan. thank you so much for having the time to talk with us again and give us an update. we certainly are, you know, are thinking about you all out there, and we hope that these fires get under control an, of course, before they do any more damage. thanks so much. be safe. >> thanks, fredericka. >> all right. coming up, nasa is going to launch a spacecraft into an asteroid, on purpose, yes, really. i'll ask an astrophysicist, perhaps the most famous one that you can think of, exactly what we can all expect. but, first, princess diana was the most famous person in the world. she was idolized as a royal, a fashion icon and activist and mother, and now as we bleep to bring you an all-new cnn original series "diana" later on tonight, our max foster is taking us on a tour of some of the places that held the most meaning for the princess. >> this tranquil market town in england was a very different scene 40 years ago when prince charles and diana visited a month before their marriage. royal wedding fever had gripped the country and here it was personal because this is where the couple had their country home at highgrove. but camilla parker bowles also lived nearby and over the years prince charles spent more and more time with her. he wasn't the first royal to have an affair, but diana was the first royal to go public with it in the way that she did. first in a book written by andrew morton and then in a bbc television interview. in our series this sunday "diana" only sunday on cnn. >> thanks, max. tune into our own original series "diana" premiering tonight at 9:00 only on cnn. ♪ thousands of women with metaststatic breast cancer are living in the moment and taking ibrance. ibrance with an aromatase inhibitor is for postmenopausal women or for men with hr+, her2- metastatic breast cancer as the first hormonal based therapy. ibrance plus letrozole significantly delayed disease progression versus letrozole. ibrance may cause low white blood cell counts that may lead to serious infections. ibrance may cause severe inflammation of the lungs. both of these can lead to death. tell your doctor if you have new or worsening chest pain, cough, or trouble breathing. before taking ibrance, tell your doctor if you have 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[uplifting music playing] ♪ i had a dream that someday ♪ ♪ i would just fly, fly away ♪ there is no place like home y'all! and these people know that there is no place like wayfair. i never thought i'd buy a pink velvet sofa, but when i saw it, i was like 'ah'. and then i sat on it, and i was like 'ooh'. ooh! stylish and napable. okay now. i can relate to this one. i'm a working mom with three boys. [ yelling ] wayfair is my therapy. amen, kim! yup! i'm hiding from my kids, as we speak. in business, setbacks change everything. so get comcast business internet and add securityedge. it helps keep your network safe by scanning for threats every 10 minutes. and unlike some cybersecurity options, this helps protect every connected device. yours, your employees' and even your customers'. so you can stay ahead. get started with a great offer and ask how you can add comcast business securityedge. plus for a limited time, ask how to get a $500 prepaid card when you upgrade. call today. okay, it sounds like the plot of a hollywood disaster movie, a comet is hurling towards earth and nasa needs to deflect it or it will destroy the planet. okay, that's a movie, that's a clip from "deep impact." and there are no asteroids currently threatening earth, not like that. nasa is concerned, however, that it's preparing for a worst-case scenario. next month, in fact, a spacecraft will be launched to ram into an asteroid's moon to see if it can actually change its trajectory. it's called the double redirection test or d.a.r.t. for short. here to help us understand all of this because it of course is out of this world neil degrasse tyson, an astrophysicist. he's also co-author of a new book, because he's got a lot of books, this one "a brief welcome to the universe." neil, so good to see you. >> yeah, thanks for having me. i just want to say up front bruce willis is not part of this mission. [ laughter ] >> darn, i'm sure he is disappointed though. so, help me understand this because, first of all, i didn't know an asteroid could have a moon, but of course you knew that because you're an astrophysicist. but tell us about this asteroid, which is roughly the size of three aircraft carriers, and it is a moving target. so what does nasa want to do? >> yeah. so, if you look in movies about this sort of thing, what they want to do is blow the sucker out of the sky. we're very good at blowing stuff up because we have no end of weaponry to do this. but that's not the wisest path. all engineering calculations tell us. because if you blow something up, while we're good at blowing it up, we're not as good as knowing where the pieces will end up. so it's safer and it's more controlled to deflect an asteroid from harm's way. and what we found is a double asteroid, so the d.a. in the d.a.r.t. stands for double asteroid redirect test. and we know the orbit of the moon. that's about the size of a football stadium. and it's in orbit around its host asteroid. and we know that orbit with good enough precision that if we slam our spacecraft into the moon, it will alter that orbit, and it should alter it in a measurable way. and if we succeed at that, it's like, oh, yes, now we have methods and tools to deflect asteroids that we may one day discover have our name on it. >> wow. and so any kind of pieces that might come from, you know, chipping away of that moon that you said is like a football field size, certainly much smaller than the aircraft carrier size of the asteroid. so tell me about the spacecraft that does that, could do this deflection. >> this is a spacecraft, it's electrical ion propulsion. so, this sounds very science fictiony, and the engineers have been working on ion propulsion for quite some time. there's been good tests of it. so what you have is you have sort of an ionnized gas and you direct charged particles out the back end, and it recoils in the other direction. and if you have time to wait for this to gain speed and go in its direction, it's ideal. you just can't launch it with ion drives. continuing with the football analogy, if someone is running downfield, you can try to completely block them. but that's a lot of effort. or you can just push them out of bounds. and then they don't head towards the goal line. so what we have found is that if you get to an asteroid early enough that's otherwise headed towards you, and you just give it a little nudge, that will slowly have it guide out of harm's way. and this is the whole point of this test. >> so that answers the why that i was about to ask you. so it's all reemtive just to make sure that we've got a plan in place just to make sure one day that asteroid plans to come to mother earth. >> and i think if the dinosaurs had a space program, they'd still be here. [ laughter ] but, you know, they had that walnut-sized brain and didn't have opposable thumbs. it would be embarrassing across the galaxy if we humans who had a space program went extinct because we couldn't get our act together and deflect an asteroid that took us out of the equation. >> well, let me ask you about somebody else who is very smart and admired. actor william shatner of "star trek," he'll be flying into space this week. and in your view, does putting a celebrity into space help spark more interest or keep the interest going with space exploration? >> by all means. and any celebrity, because celebrities have followings. >> what about you? >> i think we should send journalists. [ laughter ] we should send poets. people who represent society. and rather than just the right stuff, well, they're not me, so i can maybe vicariously think about their voyage. but if they're people i otherwise care about and i followed, that makes -- it turns space exploration into an activity we can all think of doing. and i can tell you this. it's going to have to be a letdown of someone who was captain of our star ship. he's just going to go up and come down a little bit never reaching warp drive. >> you have to listen to his interview he had with anderson, which is absolutely hilarious and then get a better idea of what his plan is. he's got some great ideas on why he's doing it and what he hopes to learn from. and maybe i'll sign up, maybe. neil degrasse tyson, always a pleasure talking to you. thank you so much. in fact, i think this is our first time talking. it was out of this world, i tell you. thank you. all right, the "cnn newsroom" continues right now with jim acosta. ♪ you are live in the "cnn newsroom." i'm jim acosta i

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