hearing that someone went from sick to gone in a flash. i have heard these stories every day for about a year. and not just on tv. this is not about tv for me. it is taking too much from people i care about. one of my close friends just lost her mother. never would have happened without covid. just as we think things are getting better, it was the worst for her and her family. one of the sweetest, most caring people i know. now left with doubts and pain that i have echoing through my head from people all over this country. how did this happen? i couldn't help. i couldn't be there. what do we say in those moments? nothing. right? but what do we do? we pay attention. we show respect. we certainly know better than to ignore their pain. but then you look at what we've done altogether, and that is what we've done, haven't we? half a million are gone. and many were not inevitable. these deaths came because of how we denied the reality in this country. the reality is we have more covid death than we've had dead from both world wars and vietnam combined. and remember, these people with covid, they weren't willing participants in a cause. they were not aware of making the ultimate sacrifice. covid is now right behind heart disease and cancer as the leading causes of death in our country. and, again, it has gotten this bad because too many were in denial. and yes, because we had a president that played to that because he thought it worked for him and so did his party. and yes, the media, too. we haven't always played up the death count with the urgency we did in the beginning. why? because it seemed to fall on deaf ears. me included. and it was wrong. but tonight we do what is right. do you know that we've never once stopped to honor the dead? we have never once come together as a nation to mourn. because we have never really wanted to own the reality, and that's what death is. it is the real. but tonight, that ends. it is time to say good-bye. it is time to own how horrible this has been and still is. and we have the right president to process this kind of pain. >> the people we lost were extraordinary. we have to resist becoming numb to the sorrow. we must end the politics and misinformation that's divided families, communities and the country. it's cost too many lives already. it's not democrats and republicans who are dying from the virus. it's our fellow americans. it's our neighbors, our friends. our mothers, our fathers, our sons, our daughters. husbands, wives. we have to fight this together as one people. as the united states of america. that's the only way we're going to beat this virus, i promise you. >> that is the simple soul striking truth this country needs. that's all it is. we should all be sorry for the lost loved ones. we should all wish those families some measure of healing and soon. and i think it's just part of the job that we do here to not let anyone forget how and why we got here. one year ago this week then sitting president trump told us covid cases would go from 15 down to zero. he told us this would all magically disappeared. we suspected he was lying. we knew he was ignorant and soon thereafter, we would confirm our suspicions that he was dead wrong. but we really never grasped that we were not just making ourselves sick. but that we were killing ourselves. and that president wasn't going to tell anyone any different. like president biden said tonight, misinformation has been a killer. and it has been a reality that was scripted to suit political interest. that's what's happening with january 6th. be honest. why were so many of you surprised by the ugly scenes presented at trial? because so many on the right decided it was wrong to talk about it. because it was bad for them because it was bad for trump. so you never heard the demoralizing and messaging you did all summer long about black lives matter. right? where was that interest? where was that interest in violence? if they can't play it to advantage, they don't play it. merrick garland finally got a confirmation hearing today. more than four years after the one he was supposed to get for the supreme court. remember? blocked by the gopq. he led the justice department investigation into the 1995 oklahoma city bombing. and i kept thinking to myself, how do i connect for this people, because remember the oklahoma city bombing. people were spooked by that more than january 6th. he says the current threat from white supremacists is more dangerous. and then listen to what happened. the main people who whipped up the white mob, senators cruz and holly, now want to talk about revenge politics. they question merrick garland looking very concerned, very concerned that someone might use power for bad reason. >> am i right in assuming you do not view your role as attorney general as being joe biden's wing man? >> i am not the president's lawyer. i am the united states' lawyer. >> i have to say i'm very concerned about the specter of political targeting because it's happened before. >> oh, yeah, it's happened before. where were you for bill barr? where were you? you guys are legal experts and geniuses. clerks for the highest level. and only now you see it? political payback? you mean, like, you guys running your mouths in a way that made people so angry that they came to find you on january 6th? remember how you hid? remember what got us here. 500,000 of us are dead because we chose to fight reality rather than face it. tonight we remember. this candle light vigil at the white house will finally give some recognition to the unfathomable loss of so many loved ones all across this country. tonight they are seen. their loss is observed. they matter. we can only hope that what happens tonight will allow some of us to be more cautious tomorrow. let's bring in the better minds for a sense of our state of play. john who horwood and michael smerconish. john, the relevance of stopping to say look at all this death? why hasn't it happened? >> well, we see with president biden he's demonstrated to the country what a difference the change of presidents has made. joe biden is a person who has suffered in his life, and has empathy for those who have suffered. we see that in small ways over the weekend he went to see bob dole, suffering advanced cancer about to go through chemotherapy. served more than 20 years in the senate with joe biden. joe biden went on an unannounced trip to see bob dole. tonight he held that candle light ceremony and moment of silence for 500,000 people who lost their lives. president trump had a completely different approach. he tried to down play the pandemic because he thought it was going to hurt him politically. he was not comfortable in expressing empathy. so dramatic contrast in leadership styles from donald trump to joe biden. and joe biden is doing this on a week when this is the time for him to deliver on the huge covid relief bill that he has made his top priority. so demonstrating the scale of the loss is something that underscores the argument that he's making for that $1.9 trillion bill to try to get past the pandemic, try to help people financially get by it and hopefully restore some sense of normalcy to american life by the end of this year. >> the scale of what michael, what joe biden has to face. we've never seen a president in our lifetime come in with more on their plate. he strikes the right tone. he understands pain, obviously. and he learned that lesson the worst way possible. but what does it mean in terms of his ability to get people to rally to his side on policy? >> well, no one does compassion better than he does. for all the reasons both you and john have made reference to. twice, at least having suffered really significant tragedy in his life. when i watched him tonight on cnn when he was expressing himself, i thought here's a guy who has been there who can really reach those folks. whether it translates into, say, legislative achievement, or speeding up the process by which we all get vaccinated, i really don't know. and chris, to your opening thought as to how we become so innered to all of what's going on, you make me think of the image of the airplane hitting one of the twin towers which the first may be hundred times that we saw it was overwhelming. but we saw it so often that we became desensitized to it. i can't help but think that every time we see the death count and every time we see the number of cases, sooner or later, it dulls our senses and it loses its sting. so to stand back on a night like tonight and say my god, 500,000 americans have lost their lives, i think is very appropriate and hopefully has meaning. >> yeah. i'm right with you. i really hope -- well, john, look, if people don't care about families being destroyed, enough to just put on a mask or have the forbearance, then that is a statement of where we are. in terms of where things are politically for biden, he can't lose a single vote on anything. and we saw something that usually wouldn't be an issue like staffing within his own side neera tanden. it's a little bit of an inkcay - indicator that it doesn't take much for them to break ranks. >> that's right. he has significant advantages. he's controlling the agenda as a new president with an approval rating in the mid to high 50s. so he's off to a good start. certainly more popular than donald trump was at any point in his presidency. he's got majority in the house and senate. but they're quite narrow. he cannot -- he has to have a cohesive party. all the signs are that early as democrats try to make their new democratic president successful, he has that unity in the house. he -- they plan to vote friday or saturday. he can only lose a handful of votes, but it appears he can get that picture damage through. in the senate, he can't lose a single member without a republican vote. there's no sign yet that any republican is ready to sign onto this package. he has to hold all 50 democrats. despite the flaking of joe manchin on the nomination of neera tanden, there's no indication that manchin and others who are the more ideologically moderate to conservative democrats in the caucus, that they're going to turn against this bill and sink it. there's some controversy over the minimum wage, both of them have reservations about that. but it appears likely, certainly the president has said so, that the senate parliamentarian will strike the $15 minimum wage provision which takes away the reason they would have to oppose the package yet. it looks like he can get this through, but this is where you've got to deliver. they have to deliver in the house this week and then it goes to the senate. we'll see if they can get it done. >> right. i have to believe that you're going to see problems in the house on that progressive wing. and yes, you may have a senate parliamentarian bail them out on the minimum wage, but they're going to be problems and that's a challenge for pelosi. let's deal with the moment, though. michael, trump going to cpac. i was interested in your qualified statement here that you gave to the producer. if he's healthy, not indicted, and financially solvent, he could be the 2024 nominee. that is a real high bar you're setting there for the right. i am surprised you didn't list the you say he's healthy. i guess that's the pulse test. what does it mean he's going to cpac in an environment where steve scalise and many others still won't say that biden legislately won the election. >> he's laying down a marker and going soon after having left office. i find it interesting that mike pence apparently is not going, and i think he wants to go and draw a line in the sand and let everyone know that until such time as he says he's not the guy, he remains the nominee for 2024. although, you know, what a big development today with the fact that sigh vance is going to get the tax returns and corresponding financial documents. chris, i was thinking of something. i was thinking about the clinton years and the clinton investigation. it began with a business dealing, white water. it ended with sex. in trump's case, it begins with sex. it's probably going to end up with business dealing. it's the complete reverse, and i think you'd rather be bill clinton than donald trump, because americans end up looking at the intern situation and saying you know, he lied about what? in the same way that the hush money payments to i guess a stripper and a play mate go in the same category, but look out now if it spilled into business transactions and potentially bank fraufd. who knows? >> donald trump was at the helm when a pandemic ravaged this country because of his own desire to deny it and tap into the denial of the american people and half a million people are dead. that is the end of any comparison of him in any president let alone clinton. i take your point and i appreciate it. john, michael, as always, value added. now, our next guest says to win again, the gop needs to move on from trump, not embrace him. remember, everything that biden wants to get done almost all of it, he needs buy-in from the right. so you can't just ignore what's happening there. so we have one of the very few republicans in congress willing to stand for country over party, even if it makes him unwanted for the holidays in his own house. adam kinsinger is here to make the case next. to support local restaurants, we've been to every city. including little rock and even worcester. and tonight... i'll be eating the chicken quesadilla from...tony's tex mex...in... katy. 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absolutely. sensodyne sensitivity and gum gives us a dual action effect that really takes care of both our teeth sensitivity as well as our gum issues. there's no question it's something that i would recommend. you can't analyze the state of play in our government without looking at the right. and the big question is whether or not republicans will resist anything that resembles success for a biden administration in the name of trump. he has a prime speaking slot at c cpac, the conservative stronghold. republicans are going to kiss that ring or something else at mar- mar-a-lago. how do they move on without him? very few are calling to do that, by the way. one of them is our next guest. congressman adam kinzinger, republican, illinois. good to see you, sir. >> you too, my man. how are you? >> let's discuss what you're going to love, how hard a task you have. so first, we have a member of your leadership, steve scalise, who was on tv, asked a very simple question about the legitimacy of the election and said this. nothing like silence. am i supposed to do an impression him? steve scalise dr. >> election was not stolen. correct? >> look, joe biden is the president. there are a few states that did not follow their state laws. that's really the dispute that you've seen continue on. >> i asked you is the legitimate president of the united states and do you concede that this e election was not stolen? very simple question. please, just answer it. >> once the electors are counted, yes, he's the legitimate president. if you're going to ignore the fact that there were states that did not follow their own state legislatively set laws, that's the issue at heart. >> now, here's the problem. that's not true, what he said. and i think he knows it's not true. it's hard to know because he lives in such a silo. he's such a right fringe kind of inhabitant, but there is no state that didn't follow its law in a way that was unacceptable to the law making troprocess or adjudication process. but if you're saying that, it's a problem for you because your party agrees. would you support if trump formed a third party? 46% of your brothers and sisters say yes. 27 % say i stay gop. 27% say i don't know. how do you beat all this? >> it's going to take time, and it's going to take actually speaking up and saying the truth. and so, you know, with the whip's comments, i don't understand why we can't say the basic thing which is joe biden is president. you see this chatter where everybody talks about disenfranchising the 74 million that voted for donald trump. 74 million people voted for him. joe biden had, like, 81 million people. so you're not being disenfranchised. more people voted the other way. that's what this is about. and that's where i get concerned is if you have concerns with how an election was run, okay. even though the federal government's job -- i mean, if you think about when the system was set up before the days of twitter, we just simply receive what a state sends us and say okay, good to go. you know, that's our job. if there's a problem with how pennsylvania runs the elections, that's for the people of pennsylvania to deal with and the state legislature, not for us to come in and implement our will. so i don't understand why such a basic -- look, we lost. okay? donald trump lost. and instead of complaining about that, we need to just figure out why and try to get more votes in the next person the next time. >> but you also to figure out why you're such a rare animal. i was talking about you this weekend, one of my favorite past times. somebody was like kinzinger, he hates trump. i said is that why he voted with him 90% of the time? i said the guy is a conservative republican. that's what he is. this is about the and part of character, integrity, and what you want to see in a leader. you know, your voting record, no republican could blink at it and say you're not a real member of the party. but you got sentured by your state party because you're not pure trump enough. your own family was chasing after you with two different letters about how all the things that only a family can say about one of their own about what a disappointment you are. can you win in this party right now at home? >> yeah. i certainly hope so. i'm going to try. that's where, look, there's been basically donald trump has had unmatched for four or five years the megaphone. now we need to have competing voices. i wish it was more than just me out there, but i'll continue to be as loud as i can. i have to do the shameless plug, country1st.com is about. it's about saying to truly country first republicans, or independents or democrats saying look, stand up and put the country before any single person. and i think, look, there's nobody in my party, i think that really believes this is a long-term winning solution. but they're hoping, i think, in many cases that somebody like me or there is an organic movement away from trump and they say i was never with him the whole time. the problem is in the era of new media, tapes last. >> true, and you have the mandate issue on your side that your party is folding itself over for trump who has never won a majority of any election he's been in. and that's an interesting bet that goes to the kind of changing demographics and where your party is on it. does any of this give you pause, not about being a democrat because you don't agree with them on most policy things. but of whether or not you're in the right business? you're a natural leader. everyone who knows you says that. but do you think there's a space for you in the state of politics right now? >> so i think that's what we're going to know in the next few years, honestly, is where does this party go? what does that look like? what does -- does it continue to say we're going to pledge allegiance to a man over a flag in some cases? does it say you know what? we're going to get back to the roots of what we believe and put it in 21st century with updated technology? if that's the case, and i think that will be the case, but it's only going to happen when people are coming out and speaking the truth. in my district, i got 65% of the vote. donald trump got 56% of the vote. if you think the donald trump thing in the long-term is going to be the winning coalition and not somebody like me, that's conservative, but doesn't offend people and doesn't go out and attack and say that you owe me everything and doesn't incite insurrections, then we'll be a minority party forever, but i don't know what that looks like. all i know is i can rest with real peace knowing that i'm going to fight as hard as i can to get a normal functioning republican party that needs to be part of this. >> and in fairness, you didn't get brought into office because trump said so. he was not a fan of yours for some time, because of your lack of feelty. we haven't heard of the party making a move on you unless there's something you want to let us know in terms of not wanting you on committees or anything like that. so that's a good indication. have you been able to mollify any of your family members? >> the vast majority of my family, even if they disagree with me, they're good family members. these are my dad's cousins, and honestly, the letter that came out, i didn't release that. she had sent that to so many people out of so much anger j just can't help herself, and it went out. i'm glad the letter came out. because i think that people need to see if you haven't experienced that division in your family, this is the best example of it. and so, look, i hold nothing against them. i mean, maybe someday i'll have to look back and do some more forgiveness in my heart, but i don't feel it right now. i just have no desire really to reach out and repair it. that's up to them. >> you put a vowel on the end of your name, and you'd know how mad you are at them right now. maybe this is an up side to not having more of an ethnic swing to you. congressman kinserrkinserringer think it's refreshing to have someone who wants to do what's right policy-wise and personally in terms of the values. it's just not a very helpful climate for you. that's why i consider it a pleasure to have you on the show to make the case. >> you bet. any time. >> all right. be well. it's true. i know you guys are going to say we need more guys like him. maybe, maybe not depending on your politics, but it is refreshing. and now we're seeing the opposite. trump is going back to cpac. that organization, back in the day, would have really had no part of someone like him. but things have changed. why is he a good bet for them? again, he lost ree election by more than 7 million votes. the most votes we've ever seen someone get was his opponent. he lost the house. lost the senate. why is he the one that conservatives turn to for inspiration? that is a question for the man behind cpac on the choice to keep the maga movement going. oh, you think this is just a community center? no. it's way more than that. cause when you hook our community up with the internet... boom! look at ariana, crushing virtual class. jamol, chasing that college dream. michael, doing something crazy. this is the place where we can show the world what we can do. comcast is partnering with 1000 community centers to create wifi-enabled lift zones, so students from low-income families can get the tools they need to be ready for anything. oh we're ready. ♪ ♪ trump's going to make his first post presidential appearance this weekend at the conservative political action conference in orlando. cpac. the same time his former v.p. mike pence declined a chance to speak supposedly because the former president and vice president are supposed to stay quiet after the inauguration. that's why he says he's not going. let's talk about who is going. let's bring in matt schlapp. good to see you. why is this the right move for cpac to give trump the platform which somewhat presents him as a future prospect. >> the reason why it's right for president trump to be at cpac is he just spent four years enacting the most conservative policy we've ever seen from any president. certainly any republican president. and 73 million americans voted for him. they thought the policies helped make america strong. we weren't apologizing overseas. the forgotten men and women had great economic prospects. and simply did what he said he was going to do. so why not have him speak? it seems to me it makes perfect sense that he would come back, and talk to his followers and faithful and talk about what's going to happen in the future. >> because it makes cpac tacitly endorsing his election force. >> i don't know what that means. >> well, he lied about the election being a fraud, and you having him there and giving him a platform seems to be your acknowledgment of the same. if you have him on the platform, you're saying -- >> we're going to spend -- i'd love you to look at our agenda. we're going to spend a lot of time going through what happened in these states. you said several things in the previous interview that aren't true. you said that these states were simply following state law. i was -- >> no, i didn't. >> i was in nevada -- clarke county was not following state law. >> i did not say that. >> what do you mean? >> i said it is not true that any state decided that it was doing something wrong. and states get to decide. and it was adjudicated. you just don't like that you lost in the state. you don't like that the supreme court refused to see any merit to your claims. you don't like that people voted in places where they didn't live and the numbers were lower than you suggested. you don't like those things but they're true. >> i don't like those things, but it's still important we go back to the idea of legal voting and people should be legally registered to vote in order to vote. i don't think it's controversial to say people should vote one time. >> but you don't have a significant number of people who voted more than once. >> you shouldn't be able to vote in two states. >> it's not conceptual though. i'm saying it's not true. >> you had me -- you had me on that you had me on the show and you're telling me that saying there was widespread illegal voting is false. and i'm trying to explain to you that, for instance, what they said in the state of georgia when they had an illegal consent decree to not verify the signatures of mail-in ballots. that means you have no security on the ballot that was mailed out without unsolicited vast mail-in ballots. they were returned with no security. you can't have an election in another country that the state department would accept these types of ground rules. >> you have no -- -- you're making a strong man argument. it's a boogie man argument. there is no proof of rampant fraud. nobody is saying the process is perfect. you lost. >> let me ask this question -- >> now you're going to keep that going. steve scalise the other day on tv. you want the conservative movement to be made on the back of a lie of the election? >> let me go through a couple things you said. >> sure. >> joe biden is my president. he won the election. >> good. >> that doesn't mean that there wasn't voter fraud and voter irregularity in the last election. there's a republican who went to jail for voter fraud in north carolina. >> right. >> it can't just be republicans that commit voter fraud. when voter fraud occurs no matter -- >> no, but you need to have proof, matt. >> will be prosecuted. >> you have to have ploof that it changed an outcome. >> we have it. >> you don't have. >> but you're right. we do have it. >> you can't have it because you have chances to produce it. you had chances to -- >> could you sit down? >> no. because you had your chance at this. matt, you had your chance. >> nobody -- >> matt, why do you ignore that dozens of lawsuits failed on this? >> let me -- >> why ignore it? >> you're right. they did fail. but guess what. you know this. you're a good lawyer. just because you fail in court doesn't mean you don't have a good case. it means you lost in court, and the fact remains that you can say it wasn't enough voter fraud. i don't think any voter fraud is acceptable. i think we should try to get rid of all of it. you should never be able to vote through the mail in this country without somebody on the other side making sure it was you. >> georgia state officials -- >> registered voters. >> georgia state officials -- >> you must agree with that. do you agree? >> i agree with the premise. i don't agree with the proposition of what happened. there is no proof that there was a problem based on your sus mission. georgia said -- >> i'll show you the proof. would you sit down with me and go through the proof? >> georgia said that's the law and these are your people. >> that's not right. >> they are republicans. >> that's not right. >> it is right. you said -- >> nope. nobody ever said there was no -- nobody ever said there was no fraud in georgia. what they actually said was -- >> the georgia officials said exactly that. >> they were not going to check the signatures on the mailed in ballots? >> you heard georgia state officials -- you heard -- >> you can't run a democracy that way. >> matt, listen. if you want to make things better, make them better. i'm telling you these arguments are making things worse. >> i do that every day, my friend. >> these are yours -- >> i do that every day. >> from your party officials who said there was no fraud here. stop saying it. you're going to get us hurt and then you did. >> chris, chris, there was widespread voter fraud in the last election in a bipartisan sense. democrats and republicans should agree on a couple things. you should be a registered voter to vote. certainly if you're in a registration state, you should only vote once and if you vote by mail, somebody at that election office should have to verify that signature according to the state statute. that did not happen in the state of nevada and that did not happen in georgia and that did not happen in philadelphia. >> and if you're going to qualify -- >> i say let's never have an election like that ever again. >> look, nobody should argue against improvements. what i'm saying is very simple and you know this. what trump -- >> very good. very good. >> what trump did was -- first of all, these same issues came up four years ago. you guys had a deaf ear. you said the democrats were sore losers and were undermining democracy. let's not get on our soap box too fast. >> before you were saying there was russian collusion and there was -- that the election should be questioned and hillary clinton said -- >> not only -- >> two joe biden he should never ever concede, and this is like hypocrisy like i've every seen. >> it's not. here's why. not only did i say there was collusion. i'll say it now that there was collusion. collusion is not a crime. it's a behavior. and trump's people did what they do best. they did dumb things for bad reasons. look, you made your arguments. i gave you your time. we'll look and see what happens at cpac. >> mueller found no collusion. >> collusion is not a crime. he wasn't even looking at it as such. learn to read. it's in the details. >> he said there was nothing inappropriate with russia in the 2016 election. >> he never said that. >> good to see you. >> glad to offer the platform. let the people decide. matt schlapp, cpac. let's see what trump says when he goes there. he's going to have trouble, not with cpac, they have nobody better they believe in more. that's on them. he has trouble that has nothing to do with that. legal peril. the supreme court rejected his bid to keep his taxes from a new york prosecutor. that doesn't mean we're all going to get to peruse the former president's taxes. but his niece says she has a case against him and she knows him. and she knows why or she believes why he is so worried about this, and that it's something we have to take note of. and she also has a guess as to what happens next. let's discuss. remember commercialshat pe with exciting stunts. so to help you remember that liberty mutual customizes your home insurance, here's something you shouldn't try at home. insurance is cool. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ i made a business out of my passion. i mean, who doesn't love obsessing over network security? all our techs are pros. they know exactly which parking lots have the strongest signal. i just don't have the bandwidth for more business. seriously, i don't have the bandwidth. glitchy video calls with regional offices? yeah, that's my thing. with at&t business, you do the things you love. our people and network will help do the things you don't. let's take care of business. at&t. what do you look for when you trade? i want free access to research. yep, td ameritrade's got that. free access to every platform. yeah, that too. i want to know what i'm paying upfront. yes, absolutely. now offering zero commissions on online trades. covid's still a threat. and on reopening schools, we know what happens when we don't put safety first. ignore proper ventilation or rates of community spread, and the virus worsens. fail to provide masks or class sizes that allow for social distancing, and classrooms close back down. a successful reopening requires real safety and accountability measures. including prioritizing vaccines for educators. parents and educators agree: reopen schools. putting safety first. the supreme court decided today to allow former president trump's tax returns into the hands of a new york prosecutor. now, that may place trump and his businesses a step closer to legal jeopardy, because a big part of the theory is that they're looking to see if he played games with assets versus liabilities, meaning it meant one thing when he was trying to borrow money against it and another thing when he had to pay taxes on it. that can be a dangerous game. trump, has gone to extraordinary lengths to keep his financial records hidden. there is a grand jury investigation. okay? they will soon have access to documents spanning from january, 2011 to august, 2019, including tax returns that come from his accounting firm. they relate to the trump organization's and hush payments cohen made on behalf of trump. it's not an allegation. he made the payments. meantime, trump faces nearly a dozen investigations in lawsuits across several states including one from his own niece, mary trump, who has since been r revealed as the source. she's also the author of "too much, never enough". welcome to cnn. >> thank you. >> why doesn't he want people, let alone prosecutors to see his taxs? >> there are a couple reasons. it's hard to know which is more important to him. probably the most important one is he's never made any money, and every penny donald has was really my grandfather's initially. secondly, he's going to be shown to have been somebody who gave zero to charitable causes. and for our purposes, the most important one, of course, is that he has most likely within committing tax fraud for decades. so it's a huge victory, i think, for the supreme court to have cleared the way for new york state to get access to donald's tax returns because it's a long-time coming. he should have faced accountability a long time ago, and as we learn from your previous guest, the republican party is going to do absolutely nothing to contain donald, and they're just going to allow him to continue to be the head of their increasingly anti-democratic party that's perfectly comfortable engaging >> well, look, politically his party has a problem with perception versus reality. politics perception can be reality, and that's what they're hoping when it comes to election fraud. all i can do is present the facts. to be honest with you, that's an easy conversation. i'm sure everybody will look at it through a partisan lens, but there are no good arguments there. i can do that and my taxes at the same time. this is different now. when the taxes come out, the perception of a prosecutor can be reality if there is proof. cou the counter, mary, is -- he says he gets audited all the time. wouldn't they have caught him already if he had done bad things with his taxes? >> first of all, there is no reason to believe that he actually has been under audit for the last -- what has he been saying that for, decades? >> because i'm a strong christian, he said. >> sure. but that aside, it doesn't matter what he says. because the irs knows the truth, and pretty soon the new york -- cy vance and letitia james in new york will have access to those documents that show what is the case, and as we've known since 2018, thanks to that extraordinary "new york times" article by suzanne craig and russbuettner, donald has been playing fast and loose with his taxes for decades, and it's about time the american people have access to exactly what has been going on, and most likely has continued going on. because let's face it, this is a very longstanding pattern. >> your lawsuit stands where in terms of its process? >> we're still at the beginning stages of it. we have a hurdle of statutes of limitations to get over, so once hopefully that gets cleared, it will be full speed ahead. but the good thing is it's not just my lawsuit, it's not just cy vance, not just letitia james. my lawyer, robert kaplan, has two other lawsuits going on. we have potentially an investigation in georgia looking into voter fraud, and i know that doesn't have to do with the finances, but what we've learned is that donald has a tendency to get away with things. so the more we pile on, the more avenues of investigation there are, the more likely it is that we're finally maybe going to get some justice. >> what is your sense of how your uncle deals with having so. irons in the fire against him? >> he probably doesn't think about it very much, honestly. i think at the moment, he's probably focused on cpac, he's probably looking at that as his way to get back into the conversation, and let's be clear, cpac -- his speech at cpac is going to be an endless list of grievances about how the election was stolen from him, the election was stolen from his voters, and regardless of what other republicans may or may not say, they're going to be enabling that extraordinarily dangerous rhetoric. so, you know, it's unfortunate that's being allowed to happen, but it also increases the urgency of these state-level cases and these lawsuits going through. >> look, he's the best game in town for cpac, and he's never made the kind of money from anything as quickly as he has from his complaints about the election. they've raised $250 million in eight weeks based on election lies, so this is profitable for him as well. and it leads to the legacy effect. you're the branch of the family that doesn't like him, but there is this idea of he will be able to appoint who comes next, even if that means it's one of his daughters-in-law, lara trump, trying to extend the brand. here's what she says. >> he has told us to stay tuned, that this is not over for him, and he has indicated that he probably would be interested in running again in 2024. look, egs the head of the republican party. he is really the person that everyone will continue to turn to in order to help them get across the line, whether we're talking about 2022 or beyond, i think. >> so she wants to get in the game. you had said that you didn't think he would want to run again. and, look, he has to say he might because it makes him marketable. but where do you think the truth lies? >> it's not that he wouldn't run again, it's that he has no intention of actually going all the way because he won't risk losing, but he will pretend to run for sure, because as you said, it's incredibly lucrative for him. truth of the matter, though, is that if, indeed, he continues to be the head of the republican party, what we need to do, as you alluded to in the last segment, we need to make clear that what the republican party stands for is the big lie, and let's not forget, even more importantly, they seem to be perfectly comfortable with the fact that this man incited an armed insurrection against our country, and the republicans have no problem with that. that needs to be a permanent stain on any republican's reputation that continues to enable this extraordinarily dangerous rhetoric. >> it will certainly be a matter of fact. mary trump, thank you very much. we'll be right back. ♪ hey now, you're an all-star, get your game on, go play ♪ ♪ hey now, you're a rock star, get the show on, get paid ♪ ♪ and all that glitters is gold ♪ applebee's $1 boneless wings i give to shriners hospitals for children because i want to be a part of something amazing. - i know my gift to shriners hospitals for children makes a difference in the lives of children. - our support gives kids a bright future. - i give because when i see a child smile, i smile. - when you support shriners hospitals for children, you're joining thousands of other caring people like you who have helped kids like me and over 1.4 million other kids do amazing things. - will you call the number on your screen right now and give $19 a month, just 63 cents a day? 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