buy timewarner a big "power lunch" begins right now. welcome to "power lunch," i'm melissa lee. we're just off session lows but stocks have accelerated losses here in the afternoon. worst day in nearly three months stocks pushing lower following new details of the new senate tax plan including a possible delay in corporate tax cuts. for all the details we have, let's head to john harwood in washington john >> the senate's got a problem, their budget reconciliation rule allows them only to reduce-this tax bill as we have seen emerge in the house, is going to cost more than that in the short-term and also raise the deficit in the long-term. also not allowed under senate rules. so what the senate is trying to do is make adjustments both to get the votes and also to meet the rules, one of those judgm t adjustments is going to be raising the corporate tax rate going from 25% to 15%. from what i understand, the senate will not delay immediate expensing, which is likely to be the stimulus part of this bill other changes we are seeing is they are going to have full repeal for reductions for state and local and property taxes, because there aren't blue state senators whose votes they need they just announced in the last few minutes they're going to restore the deduction for families with high medical bills. it's something that symbolically could be used to attack that bill if you take away that deduction. >> you understand the delay in the corporate tax rate would be a delay of a rate of 20%, though, still? >> that is thecurrent understanding, but i got to say, as they continue to grapple with this bill and try to achieve the cost requirements, that rate could get tweaked higher than 0 20%, we'll see >> john harwood in washington. let's get more on this from joe, great to have you with us. the details obviously are trickling out right now. we don't but let's say there is a delay in that corporate tax rate from 25% to 15% what can you tell us in terms of the net effect of that >> john was right, from an economics perspective the full expenses or accelerated depreciation, it goes by a couple of different names, that would do the most to bring investment spending to a faster pace, help productivity and one would be inclined to lift their gdp numbers a bit. so that's certainly positive but most of the broader issue with this tax reform, parts of it i like and parts of it i don't. along with everything else i have seen so far this year, it seems rush and not thoroughly thought through. if you get the corporate tax reduction in 2019, the market is forward looking, as long as it knows it's coming. from the investment side of this, there doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason as to how this process is working. and who is actually going to vote for it. we're assuming it's going to go through, but as you just highlighted there's different senators from different states that might not go along with it. and the senate can only lose 22 pebs >> all the major averages are off, it appears to be on this news of the delay of the corporate tax cut? is that an overreaction? >> here's the thing, the high yield market over the last couple of days has been selling off and as you know, we have had a period of roughly 250-odd days without a 1% correction, so i would argue the seeds for the pull back were planted >> a lot of high yield is telecom and telcom is getting hammered if you take that out, that might be a better yeeltd of xtelcom. >> all of these markets are very compressed readings and any little factor that causes investors to question that the outlook isn't as pretty teen as perfect as i thought, leads to a pull back. if the tax reform were to totally fail, as health care did, that's a different story, but i would say for a trade, the market is really overreacting. i still would expect something the problem i'm grappling with is i don't know what it's going to look like and i would argue many investors don't know either >> sticking with watching it's impact on corporate america, we're just minutes away from at&t's ceo randall stevenson, live at the deal look conference at&t facing push back now from the government over it's proposed acquisition of timewarner the doj wants at&t to dump the turner networks, which includes cnn, stevenson says he has no intention of selling cnn so are the demands legitimate or political theater oar what julius, now a manager at the carlyle group, thank you for your time today. from a regulatory or antitrust perspective, how is this combination all that materially different from the combination that put our parent company, comcast together with our direct parent nbc universal what's the difference? >> well, it's hard to see a big difference look, this is a vertical merger and in deals like this, it would be normal to focus on potential harms to the government. to look at a vertically integrated distributioncompany doesn't favor it's own business or disadvantage it's competitors, in the comcast nbc universal deal, the doj approved the deal. >> so these were behavioral bumper guards i guess you would call it, rather than the threat of not letting the deal go through? >> very unusual in a vertical deal like this to insist on divestitures, behavioral conditions would be a norm >> so are there any areas in here, in this particular deal, that do suggest to you that there could be either regulatory or antitrust concerns? you may have just answered it in saying that it's hard to find them on a vertical deal like this >> first of all, it's worth pausing on where we are in the process, it sure seems like we're getting close to the end of the government's review and at this stage, it's not uncommon for the government to prepare to block a deal, proposing remedies in discussions with companies, what's unclear is whether the government is floating very tough steps to negotiate very moderate conditions or whether they are serious about forcing a sale of cnn or turner. >> if the government is successful in terms of enacting or seeing these structural demands come through, whether it be the sale of the urn eturner properties, should comcast be worried? >> there's a long way to go. first the government would have to sue to block the deal and i think most antitrust experts would tell you, that would be a tough litigation for the government to win. >> let me just put the big monkey that's in the room out there and that is the width of politics in this, do you sense that there is in any way political retribution or political peak entering into this process >> well, look, that would not be a good thing, right? if the issue is the satisfaction with the content of cnn, that would be hard to square with the first amendment and basic free speech principles, but we don't know, right? there's a new antitrust sheet that the doj, with strong experience in the space, we should give them the benefit of the doubt and i think for the moment assume that we're seeing leverage in negotiations toward a more predictable outcome >> julius, always good to hear from you. >> happy to be here. >> snap and blue apron, two recent ipos who have struggled since their market debuts, we'll talk to a legendary venture capitalist about those names and what uber should do. and we're counting down the minutes before the speech of at&t ceo randall stevenson y's a. last year, he said he was going to dig a hole to china. at&t is working with farmers to improve irrigation techniques. remote moisture sensors use a reliable network to tell them when and where to water. so that farmers like ray can compete in big ways. china. oh ... he got there. that's the power of and. shares of snap now down nearly 30% since going public and falling yet again today. other tech darlings uber going through struggles of its own >> we have all of the disadvantages of being a public company as far as a spotlight on us, without any of the advantages of being a public company. so travis and the whole board now agree that we should just go public the number supported, the system supported, et cetera >> joining us now, one of the legends of early stage investing, allan patrikov, his great kroft partners have more investors. he join us from d.c. thanks for coming on the show. you've got snapchat, you've got blue apron, uber, some of their problems, has all of this short of shaken the proverbial tree in terms of reducing the attractiveness in early stage investing? or are these literally a bunch of one off stories with no macroimpact? >> we have talked about this before in previous shows, if you're going to go public, you have to have a very clear insight as to what you're going to do for the next three to five quarters if you haven't got clear predictability, you're asking for trouble. and what's happening at snapchat and uber, is disappointment in the marketplace, and what we used to call the living dead, which means you're public and all of a sudden your activity slows down and blue apron is experiencing some of that and the blue apron got hit with the whole whole foods acquisition by amazon which has shook up the whole food industry. but i think snap had a bad earnings, they haven't have surprised anyone with positive news yet and that is a killer. >> the problem in the earnings property was the lack of earnings, i think it's fair to say, allan >> one of your strategies for you and all of your investors is the big ipo, that's the big exit we have seen some of these ipos not do very well do you believe in one of your 100 or so investments that we're going to see a slowdown in an already slow ipo pipe like >> i said that when he started 10 years ago, that the ipo was not the only avenue and we should condition ourselves to valuation of the deals that we went into and the amount of money that we put in, that we could make a very good return, a venture return without having to rely on a public ipo market and it's turned out to be almost 100% correct an ipo is not in everyone's future and i think we're finding outmore and more, particularly as liquidity is coming into the secondary market, so many of the hedge funds, so many of the private equity firms in addition to strategic powers that are buying out the positions of the venture firms. so i think we have perfect liquidity from secondary private sales, and i think that's the major source of how we're going to get exits on a lot of the companies. >> your answer there, allan, just led me to my next question, which is are there types of companies or qualities that companies have that would lead you to advise them, hey, going public is not for you? you should not do it >> i think if they're able to access the private markets, if there's ability to get secondary sales for their employees which is critical so you don't lose your existing employee base because they can't get liquidity for some of those positions and buy those houses that they're waiting to buy, i think you have more frustration in your employee base, particularly as you grow but i think there are more and more opportunities and i just heard jim coulter from gpd, as one of his 2,000 strategies for 2018 is buying private companies and private companies that have great growth futures and where they can make as attractive returns as they can in the public market. >> that's great, alan, because that leaves out mom and pop, because they would probably need a public equity to invest in because they're not rich enough or they don't have access to the venture capital world. you have always been sort of annedan anned a -- -ed advocate for mo pops is there a way to change the market so that the individual investor can somehow play better in your world? >> an interesting phenomenon has happened the thing that's really changed, you know, 10, 15, 20 years ago, and unfortunately i have to go back further, if a venture firm were coming in, they were not comfortable having a lot of private investors, a lot of angel investors, a lot of seed investors and that was and an nat ma to a capital structure, today it is absolutely normal to go into something where friends and family seed investors, there are enormous number of seed funds out there where individuals are participating and they're participating perhaps at the earlier stages where the successful ones will be very profitable, the risks obviously are higher so individuals are taking more risk and in the positioning themselves for the bigger return i mean how would you like to be the initial seed investor in something like uber, or if you were in snap, you would have done very, very well >> you have to be the guy who bought it the day after the open i think you've got some meetings in that big domed building behind you at the capitol. the merger between at&t and timewarner, we're just minutes from hearing from ceo randall stevenson for his first comments since news of the doj reviewing the deal tom served as the original architect as cnbc and we welcome him back as a cnbc contributor. thank you for being here if you were randall stevenson, what would you do? >> if i'm randall stevenson, i know i'm in the midst of a big negotiation. i'm sure he didn't offer up the sale of cnn, but i think that at&t was caught off guard, because a merger that was going to go through on certain behavioral conditions, and then you start hearing about diverse chur and you think hey, if cnn weren't on the table, you would certainly want to probe if that was what was really at the heart of the government's new stance on whether or not they were going to approve it and if they were going to approve it, how? and based on that, i think that randall and we'll see in the interview andrew's about to do would probably take a pretty tough position that hey, if the government's going to challenge this merger on what looks like fairly shaky competitive grounds, we're prepared to fight it and my view would be that's probably not a case the government really wants to litigate i'm sure at&t really doesn't want to litigate it >> the only thing i have heard from one antitrust attorney, he asked, are they returning to the time of, you know, corporate theory, where just too big was too big and that's it? >> that would be totally inconsistent with the broader business views of this administration, totally inconsistent with the media concentration and ownership stance that the new fcc has taken. it's really hard to see how they get there on some kind of theory of antitrust law or even media concentration. so you have to go to the issue of whether there very political motives here, what's hard to understand is the consequence of is divesting cnn, i mean what does that do it ends up at cbs? it ends up at disney/abc >> cnn doesn't go away, cnn doesn't stop criticizing the president just because randall stevenson can't buy it >> there is one possible theory, which is a confluence of some news events here, and i'll couch it by saying it's a little bit farfetched, but i think you got to mention it, the only home for cnn that i think the trump administration would really like to see would be fox, fox as you know, supposedly reinitiated conference conversations with disney on the sale of its entertainment assets in order to concentrate on news and sports. >> i would think that be more problematic, if fox were to buy a new cable outlet to add to its news cable outlets wouldn't that be antitrust >> as a former antitrust lawyer, i can tell you this, it's all about what the definition of your relevant market is, and maybe cable news is no longer a legitimate market in and of itself, that you have to look at a broader definition of what the news market is and under some theory there, a horizontal merger like that might be permissible. i have to say that if it did go on the market, look, murdock outbid everybody for "the wall street journal" at ans a tron nomic price. if the government obviously can't control who an asset gets sold to but if it were for sale -- >> that would shut up cnn from criticizing the president is where you're going >> it would be the only logical end to a politically motivated discussion here. the other results of blocking the merger, who do you hurt? you hurt timewarner shareholders, you hurt fidelity, i know if that in some ways reverts back to the administration and cnn so it's hard to see even if cnn were put on the table and the divestiture was the target or blocking the merger was the target, how either of those go to that result the only thing that you can think of is that can it end in friendly hands and that might be farfetched, with the fox now on negotiating potentially the sale of its entertainment assets. >> we love to get people to speculate, all of the irresponsible things that we're always accused of doing, so tom, what do you think the government's real end game is here what does the government want? do they want restrictions or agreements on behavior or something else what do they want? >> well, you know, it's very hard to discern from this. it the only thing that you can really look at here is if they are going to really try to block this by litigating in some way that they're prepared to show that, look, the trump administration is tough, president donald trump is a tough guy when it comes to things that have gotten under his skin and he's willing to do something about it it's hard to see it from and ant anti-trust theory what the issue is >> tom, i'm sorry, we need to interrupt because we have our interview at dealbook with randall stevenson. david favor first. >> as we await mr. stevenson getting on the stage with andrew and of course the questions are going to be focused on the future of that deal, in which at&t is trying to acquire timewarner i did want to share some information we have gotten from a senior government official and this relates to that back and forth yesterday frankly that was somewhat unusual between doj sources who were quoted and mr. stevenson who you see about to answer questions, let me get to this quickly, because it will set up the interview they claim that the harm is caused by distribution and content owner ship and if you want to come back with some combination, they said they were happy to listen, that being government officials as they relate it. let's listen in with mr. stevenson. >> i'm at a place where i miss the horizontal mergers, they seem so easy in comparison to these. look, we're in advanced stages of negotiations and discussions with the department of justice if i could lay some ground rules with you what gets discussed in the negotiations with the doj is highly confidential. and i think we were both a little disturbed yesterday by leaks and information that came out and i even came out and made some comments yesterday about the discussions because there were so many rumors and suppositions going around. but i do want to make a couple of really strong points, important points,s and that is first and foremost, irrespective of what you read yesterday, i have never been told that the price of getting the deal done was selling cnn, period. and likewise, i have never offered to sell cnn and what i said yesterday, there is no intention that we would ever sell cnn, take those two off the table, and where are we? we're well past a year since this deal was consummated and for a vertical transaction, i'm surprised we have gone this long, i shouldn't say surprised, but there's been a lot of -- we haven't -- delays in the conf m confirmation process may cco macon is now getting engaged in the transaction, we did have our first meeting on monday, i'm not going to tell you what was said in that meeting, they are very privileged conversations, but as you might guess, when you're doing a big negotiation, you spend a lot of time just getting to know each other, i have spent a lot of time trying to get to know macon and reading comments he has made in public, and that meeting was getting to know each other and we spent a lot of time trying to understand what the bid/ask is in a situation like that i think we had a productive meeting on monday, i think we both learned a lot about where each other are now we'll continue this process to see if we can get to a negotiated settlement. >> first sources come out in the doj side in all of this suggesting that you offered cnn. >> i read that too >> you read that too >> yeah. >> then you came out and said, and just said it again, that that's not true. these are completely different ideas. how could that be? >> i think it's a fair question, it's a good question i can't -- i don't even know who in the doj is saying these things, i get from the press, a source in the doj says i'll tell you what i said, all right? and what i said inside that meeting, i have never offered to sell cnn you think about what we're trying to accomplish here, and one of the key benefits of putting these two companies together is to stand up a new advertising capability so we have built an amazing distribution platform, 150 million mobile subscribers, the largest pay tv base in the united states, a huge broad band base, there's a lot of information and data that we think can be used to stand up a new advertising business pairing that with the turner advertising inventory is a really powerful thing we believe, that is what we aspire to do. selling s nr ining cnn makes non that context if that's what you're trying to do. selling cnn just doesn't make sense in the context we're trying to accomplish i have been called and asked if i would sell cnn, not by the justice department but there's been a lot of interest in cnn. >> did you feel any pressure during that meeting or otherwise to sell cnn inside the government >> no. >> that has not come up at all >> no. >> what about this idea of selling direct tv? >> so, i'm going to repeat what i said at the beginning, what gets discussed inside that room is highly privileged and i cannot go there. it's so important when you're in these kind of negotiations with justice that they remain confidential because you can't have open and candid conversations with the negotiated settlement if everything's leaking so what happens inside that room needs to stay inside that room >> and i will tell you even today, we're hearing from sources inside the government that were surprised by your statement yesterday that you were surprised by their statement. >> i'm not even sure i can follow all of that i this state again, i am not selling cnn and at&t is not selling cnn. >> let me ask you again, why do you want cnn so badly? >> because i need a strong competitor against nbc, andrew, right? okay i went through it already. i personally think that where we are right now in the world of advertising and media, that there are a couple of players who have built incredibly strong positions and impressive positions in advertising and they are technology companies. and i believe that if we are going to compete, if somebody's going to compete with them, the best opportunity with have, if somebody like at&t, i honestly do believe that, if somebody is going to stand up a platform that can actually attract advertisers that could compete against a google or facebook, somebody with the data in our data distribution business, or a sizable input like you have in turner that could complete at that level that's what this is about. you answer my question, why would i sell cnn if that's the business we're trying to build great demographic, great advertisine ing iing inventory,t content. >> are you surprised at the turn this has taken given the comments president trump made on the campaign trail and others where he has clearly targeted cnn? >> i have been consistent with this all along i know everybody is tired of hearing this, this is a classic vertical merger, there are no overlaps of competition, there are no competitors being taken out of this market we came into this with that expectation. we came in recognizing two things, there hasn't been a deal like this defeated in the courts in 20 years. and seven years ago, comcast acquired nbcu, which was probably from a content transaction a more -- strong behavioral conditions, we came into this with this two pieces of history and the law behind us and felt very comfortable stepping into this transaction am i surprised that there are statements that there might be litigation here? yeah, of course i'm surprised. am i concerned it also might not surprise you that since the day we announced this we have been preparing to litigate this deal and we have been very -- working very diligently on a litigation strategy and a litigation plan so we are prepared, if negotiations -- if we get to a place, we have to ask ourselves is a negotiated outcome a better outcome than a litigated outcome? if we get a better outcome with a litigated settlement then we'll go for that >> both companies can walk away from this deal in april, if it is not completed. >> april 22, my birthday >> let's see what your birthday present is >> i hope it's an early birthday present. >> just walk us through the timeline, if you were to close answer try to force the doj to sue you, how it would work >> doj would file a lawsuit, obviously. our -- if we're going to go to litigation, our preference would be sooner is better, and we're prepared to litigate now like i said, we have been working on this for a year, we are prepared to litigate now, we would obviously, i'm not a lawyer, but we would obviously ask for an expedited hearing we feel a transaction of this size, you would likely get an expedited hearing. so we feel comfortable that this transaction could be litigated, a hearing conducted and an answer provided well before that april 22nd deadline. >> the new head of anti trust enforcement who you met with earlier this week had made some comments before he got the job about how he felt that on the merits of the law that the deal would go through when you first heard that he was getting the job, did that change your view of what was going to happen or did use -- is there a sigh of relief, you thought, okay this is happening >> it re-enforced what we thought about the transaction, he made comments that were exactly in line with what we thought about this transaction going in no, it wasn't a surprise, it was in fact affirmation, he was basically affirming what justice has been saying for 40 years, it's a vertical merger and should not bring up any antitrust concerns >> when the news of the deal first came out, the break up -- $500 million was small, small relative to the $4 billion breakup fee. >> it's been a year, so my memory may be shaky, but i think it was a little more than that. >> but why so small? was that an indication to you that you you thought perhaps this was going to run into regulatory trouble >> i think it's probably an indication by jeff that it would not run into regulatory trouble. >> i want to go back if you would indulge me for just a second. >> i do have a choice? >> help us understand one thing, you said that you didn't want to talk about all of this in the public, and i appreciate that. but what led you to --just tak us inside the room of what led you then to say what you said yesterday. because clearly if sources inside the government were saying something, you didn't necessarily have to take it on one way or the other >> look, it's a big deal to suggest that i walked in there and volunteered to sell a particular really important asset to get the deal done i mean these are businesses that, they're talent driven. andrew ross, you're a major part of the "new york times" and cnbc and to have anybody thinking that we're prepared to jump this asset to get the deal done is harmful. i mean that's ---if you're not planning to do it, you need to set the record straight. it's been over a year and the people inside time warner have been sitting here on pins and needless we can't speak to them, we can't talk to them about their future, in terms of their work environment, their work prospects within at&t are going to be. everybody is sitting on pins and needles and to have some come out and say we're offering to sell cnn to get a deal done. >> -- >> you described a misunderstanding you get into a deal like this and there's a bid and an ask i imagine if you're in that room, i don't know, i wasn't there. but i'm trying to understand how you could have such a die meticalmet ical die metrically opposed view to others who were in that room and was this an attempt to mend pensions to the ex ---any efforts to mend fences, since all of this happened, before you put out a statement yesterday, do you call and say, look, we're hearing this >> no, i don't call and say i'm about to say whatever statement was put out i'm going to correct. but these kind of negotiations are, they're professional. they really are professional i think yesterday was unfortunate. i think it's an indication of what happens with a media business and a media asset and there is just so much juiciness and sexiness around this and first amendment concerns and issues and so forth that i believe a lot of people leapt quickly to rumors and suspicion and a lot of it came out really, really early and you said, that's kind of weird, never happened, right? and so i just -- i don't know, i'm stepping outside of our tradition and our norm of talking about anything that was said in that room to clarify this but this one is just patently false. >> is there any part of you that sees the argument where people say, there's too much concentration of powerful influence within a particular media entity and this transaction will give you that it will be the first real truly national platform, you'll recall comcast tried to pursue its deal with this company and the government didn't want -- >> big bucks with this company? >> i'm sorry with time warner. >> okay. >> and obviously didn't want that transaction -- time-warner tab cable, in part because they didn't want that deal to become a national business. >> anybody who follows this industry and you being one of the top ones knows that concentration of power is the least problem in this industry this is an industry that is going through incredible disruption, you can look at what netflix is doing and how they're building subscribers and you can look at what's happening to media in general, both the distribution side, cable tv and satellite is being pressured by the disruption that's going on in media look at the media and content side everybody's being pressured. everybody's reimagining and rethinking their business disney going after content. we have to consider also the idea of distributing content in a new world. the idea that we're going to take distribution and content to something so powerful that we have disrupted netflix and facebook and hulu. we're trying to get an opportunity to compete with those guys and i just think with these folks, amazon, google, facebook have created some amazing franchises what we're doing here is building something we hope will give us a shot at competing with them >> two deals that have been in the news and i'm curious what your reaction was when you heard them one being t-mobile and sprint, it's long been rumored, there's been talks, those ended last week do you think those deals should have happened? would that have been good for your entindustry >> i think the idea that i hoped it would happen would probably be the reason it never happened, okay it's a deal that obviously we tried to do a similar deal a few years ago and i would be disingenerdisin j disingener disingeneral -- disingenuous with that deal what i always believed was the rationale by which the doj challenged our is deal, that they're going from four national competitors to three, so we had that hurdle to overcome. i thought it was going to be a difficult run. did it make sense for them i thought it made a lot of sense for them >> so those who haven't been public at all about your deal, being support give or not, given that they've been independent and goc for a while, getting involved in this whole debate that you're now in >> they should jump in, everybody else lt. >> what about the news about the deal with fox? >> didn't seem irrational to me, didn't seem illogical to me. i think a lot of people are on pause watching what happens to our deal i think it would be difficult without understanding how the doj is now processing mma and the consolidation in this sec r sector >> if this doesn't happen, if youso somehow go to court and lose, what happens to the company? >> what happens? >> what are the implications >> i'm so excited about the deal, i don't like to go to what happens if you don't get it done i'm also optimistic enough that if it doesn't get done, we have the business we have today, which is a pretty darn good business, it generated $11 billion of cash flow we would want to figure out another avenue if that happened about how to accomplish the same thing, from an anti-trust perspective again, it's illogical for me to think that it doesn't get approved. >> i'm going to open it up to questions, i know there are people here who have a lot of them we don't have much time, but we'll try to get to as many as we can >> as they go to q & a, we want to get the reaction of what that ceo randall stephenson has made. we have our panel. david, i will start with you, since you are there. what struck me there was that stephenson brought up a couple of times that competitors in his industry more broadly include facebook, google and amazon, which is really interesting and which would really sort of prove his point, that competition, that it's not too much of a concentration of distribution plus content >> if it's not taking place in media, given our reporting on fox about the need for scale and even companies as large as fox that they may not have it, but in his opinion, at&t and time-warner would have at least the ability to compete with what are these new players. melissa, this is a fascinating new time here. ste stephenson said that everybody's going to be watching to try to understand anti trust doctrine here because it's clear the doj is making it's argument on something untested what actually went on in terms of the offer or not of cnn now stephenson clearly said that was patently false, that at&t ever offered up cnn as a divestiture and a way to get this deal done but we continue along with other news outlets that that is not the case let me quickly share some parts of a conversation that we had today with the senior government official on this very topic, who said they were shocked by steph stephenson's statement yesterday that he didn't offer the sale of cnn because they said clearly he did. they're saying that conduct cause any problems, but the harm is caused by your distribution, your contempt ont ownership they said they were happy to listen, but for the ceo to come on the record and say something totally untrue is ridiculous they went on to say what satisfy tr satisfy -- of course these were structure churl notbehavioral remedies we're talking about and i guess in concluding for me, listening to mr. stephen son, simply taking these two sides and how die metrically opposed they are they are going to go to court, that seems to be in future for this deal. >> let me pick up on what david just said, they seem to be two die metrically opposed narratives you have been in rooms where negotiations have taken place and you said something about 20 minutes ago that peaked any interest, and that was this. maybe, just maybe, mr. stephenson posited a hypothetical, what if i put cnn on the table, would that help anything here? that's not an offer to do it that's not saying i'm offering to sell cnn, but it is exploring a broader universe, so it is possible that what was heard by the government official who as david said are unekwif ca kwiqu saying mr. stephenson said that. >> i have been in these kinds of meetings and to me these are er reconcile able points. i think that -- to indicate that what it wanted in any way was the sale of cnn because that's going to be taken as blatantly -- they hobviousr rlyn to probe what's going on here. if krirks nn was on the table, does that make a difference? it's hard for me to believe that there wasn't a discussion, so that both sides understood where each other came from on that, without either one of them, without at&t asking for the government demanding so that to me is not the hard part here. the hard part is that, look, you either have a vast change in what antitrust law is going to be when it comes to the media sector, or you have something blatantly political going on here that is scary in terms of the government using its power to disrupt a media business that doesn't have on its face a logical an ti trust answer that includes divestiture >> at the beginning of the interview, randall stevenson went through great pains to say i never offered cnn, but when you listen to the whole conversation, he said everybody is going to be on hold to see how is the doj now processing these kinds of mergers, he's acknowledged something dramatic has changed with the doj, what does that mean for the rest of the media sector here? that basically puts everything on hold until we know what they're thinking, no >> well, yes and no. let me zoom out a little bit, i would argue that, i agree where what tom agree with what tom said this i think, the doj's position here has -- i can reasonably assume had nothing to do with retributions and analysts towards cnn at the white house and it had nothing to do with a broad concentration of power argument i suspect what they are struggling with is a very specific argument which is, they potential vertical foreclosure, that's to say that because at&t owns direct tv and arguably also at&t wireless that they can make it very difficult for a dish network, for example, to be able to compete by virtue of advantage access to programming that in theory could keep exclusive or something quasi exclusive. at the same time you can also find easy ways to advantage cnn over fox news or over msnbc that would also create kind of a competitive challenge. >> craig, i am sorry, i would agreed with that several years ago. you can block competitors and cross people or whatever i would argue and tell me if you disagree or agree. the quote, "market," video content is not a satellite dish or cable pipeline in your home a hundred other competitors that we don't know about yet. >> look, todd, i agree with you with respect to the diversity of voices argument and what would have been once of the argument in the first amendment the doj had to say within the next 24 months, they are required by law to take a reasonable short time horizon. this will or won't change the market as it currently exists or potentially raise prices to consumers and it is easy to see how at&t could use this to raise prices for consumers that is to say they could dramatically raise the price for hbo so everybody but themselves and paying themselves whatever they want because it is one pocket to the other pocket it is irrelevant therefore, they could effectively make it raise by consumers. there is no remedy, craig, that the doj, if they are going to ask them to sell turner properties, but not hbo then the argument you use still exists in terms of why this deal is bad for consumers. >> yeah, wait a second, that's not to say there is no remedies. comcast did this with nbcu and they agreed to comply with something that's the program access rule. but in effect, the fcc and the doj resurrected them and applied them to comcast and that was the resolution what he has said that he does not like behavior remedy and that's a behavioral remedy >> craig, i am so sorry, we got to hit the break >> we got to pay the bills >> my guess is they'll end up relying on behavioral remedy and that's the way this thing will end. >> thank you, craig and tom and david. coming up, stock market of the worst level of the day throughout my career, i've been fortunate enough to travel to many interesting places. i've always wanted to create those experiences for others. with my advisor's help along the way, it's finally my turn to be the host. when you have the right financial advisor, life can be brilliant. ameriprise stephens stocks is a little session lows right now the dow have been down we'll come back a little bit if the dow and the s&p 500 close down 1% today, it will be the fifth 1%decline this year. technology industrials of the week is performers right now, mcdonald's, caterpillar is the worst performer. coty and perrigo and even mattel is seeing some nice gains. plus, macy's is 10% today. oc the worse over for the stks and retail jerry legend is start to join us here in the studio, don't move your brain is an amazing thing. but as you get older, it naturally begins to change, causing a lack of sharpness, or even trouble with recall. thankfully, the breakthrough in prevagen helps your brain and actually improves memory. the secret is an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. the name to remember. welcome everybody, the second hour of "power lunch," i am tyler mattshisenmathisen, sou can be with us on this thursday. we got the latest, disney on the clock earnings coming up after the bell shares have been stuck in neutral this year. can the company delivers a compelling story for investors the travel blues the ceo of expedia will join us at this hour his stock is getting hit this past week and down near 20%. what's his plan to turn things around we'll explore that and more as "power lunch" hour two starts right now. >> all right, some breaking news out of washington right now. new details emerging on the gop tax plan this time on the senate side i l ylan mui is in washington. >> reporter: when it comes to the pass through rate, they are instituting a new lower rate for small businesses with income less than $75,000. it appears this was something to put into address the concerns of the national federation of independent businesses and small businesses come out against the gop tax plan the bill will preserve the adoption tax credits and house and ways of community is an adoption credit himself. it appears to tackle the 20% exile tax that hit multi nationals that many business groups have been complaining about. what we have been able to confirm so far is that there will be a one year delay in that 20% corporate tax rates so it would not take effect immediately. we have also been able to confirm there will be seven tax brackets on the individual side rather than just three as both the house and the white house have previously asked for. we are told that the top tax bracket will be lowered than the 39.6 numbers those are the few details that we have not been able to take a lean so far. this is a beginning of a long process as you guys know >> back over to you. >> when it comes to addressing the issues of what a lot of people calling the back door order adjustment tax, does that mean it goes away or what does it mean? do we know the language is complicated, we are digging into it. it looks like concerns have been addressed in the bill and we are reading through some of the legislative texts and get back to you >> and seven tax brackets? the whole point was to simplify, was it >> that's expected to be a criticism of the senate, version of the bill. however, what i am told is the goal is to be able to ensure that there is a lower rate for each individual income levels so the income level that we see for these brackets may not be the same and clearly of what we see of the house style of the bill but not the same >> remember h&r block was dead because everything was so simple >> exactly >> you are doubling your time at the tax filing which of the seven brackets am i in >> thanks ylan >> all right, lets get you caught up on the marks now stocks are well off the session lows the dow is now down 140 points, 6/10 of a percent and nasdaq is off by about 9/10 of a percent and tech is the worst performing factors amd and nvidia and oracle and avis budget group and jb hunt and take a look at financials as well again, down today, some of the hardest hit, bank of america and wells fargo. this is a fifth straight section of losses, lets get more lets get down to our new york stock exchange, bertha coombs. thank you melissa. the markets have been fixated all months today is no difference we are seeing the s & p off of the session. lows have been down quite a bit as noticed, semiconductors are what's tracking the tech sector down it is the biggest lack that's part of the areas we are seeing people taking some money off the table. transfer is also a big lagger and in pay for the worst week since july the dow follows by mcdonald's and the bank is getting beaten up as well we have also seen continue divergence of the large large cd small caps the s&p 500 is trending lower and whether indeed some of the smaller businesses are going to be benefiting. we do have some grandeur here on the screen and a sector that's beaten up for so long. the retail sectors today is showing great sides of light and macy's and despite some softness in terms of sales really confident when it comes to the holiday. the feeling is a lot are going to be tight on inventories so they'll very well making things up here during the last corner >> bertha coombs, thank you. john harwood sat down with gary cohn and he joins us now >> when you shift to a more territorial system, companies are going to bring cash back in the united states and pay them more one of the things i asked gary cohn is, what happens and do you still get the benefit if corporation use the money for dividend and stock buy back which was what happened the last time we had a patriotiation the last holiday >> now, you are making business decision, if people will bring the money back because they think there is an economic return that makes sense here in the united states, we believe there is a great economic sense. if they go to your all alternatives which is issuing dividends or buy back stocks, we get another 20% tax on the money that they issue dividends or taxes. we get a dividend or capitol gain tax the people that get those dividends or the gains, they are investors, what are they going to do? they'll reinvest the money back in the market? the idea that you are going to hire more workers and pay marngmarn marginal workers more. if i got to pull the capitol invest market today and you send me a big dividend, i am sending that money back to someone else so they can reinvest it and hire workers. we believe we'll have a stimulus effect by the economy by lowering the tax rate and corporate rate and making america competitive. a year ago, i was on the other side of this occasion. i was advising companies how to get out of the burden some u.s. tax system we were talking about in versions and talking about moving companies out of the united states. it was the most compelling presentation i can make to avoid, i can turbo charge your earnings without doing anything for your company i can relocate your domicile and you can do a few things. you can deliver 20% of your earnings to the bottom line. >> did you feel guilty advocating that? >> is it american? >> no, i did not feel guilty because boards have a fuduciary to their tax holders >> the idea that this is a tax plan that's tilted towards the rich and given that objection, i asked gary cohn, why did they include the repeal of the estate tax at all >> lets wait to see where the final plan comes out if you look at the couple groups where the biggest advocates for repealing the estate tax, it really is, it is the pastor businesses >> it is donald trump and gary cohn, people like you guys >> gary cohn does not care about the estate, i can guarantee you. >> you are the one that says only morons can may the estate tax? >> when you look at the actual number of real farms that's paying these tax, it is tiny >> i think people have managed to keep themselves below the estate tax this is the whole issue. many people are smart enough to know how to manage themselves out of the estate tax. if you have a family farm that's big enough that's going to hit the estate tax, you start paying lawyers and break up your land and farm and giving it i to the kids we are forcing people into irrational behavior and run the farm as one big farm are you saying it is not about wealthy families >> it benefits farms and small businesses and a lot of different people >> we do not believe the tax and that should be a taxable event >> now, ocf course, that's a different argument that's helping the economy and one of the things that gary adam owens and donald trump and republican congressional leaders have to deal with and there is a lot of speculations that we have not seen details o f the senate bill that'll not repeal the estate tax because there are a couple of republican senators and mike and susan collinss a and othersh expressed concerns about that, guys >> john harwood, thank you very much >> nordstrom on deck after the bell how are some of retails' names fairing as they head into the holidays >> courtney reagan >> things are looking better macy's and kohl's reported mix results this morning macy's worst than anticipated comp sales extending the streak to negative comp sales tourists spending down 12% the hurricanes in florida were apart of that and watexas, too d warmer weather hurts sales i know we laugh at that. every non cold related category did sell better than planned macy's shares are higher very important, margins also improve inventory tightly managed, too kohl's are lower key women category remains challenging but things are turning arntur turning around in the marks for kohl's it still counts as positive. now, active strong quote, "large increases" in both nike and adidas and new armour, so far, it is been really strong for kohl's >> for more on retail, lets bring in jerry stuart, we can talk about anything but lets talk about retail. okay, retail stocks are up a little bit today we all know what a grim situation it is. we are here all the time that america is over stored there are too many restores. >> we can do that, the industry is going through enormous disruption right now because of the internet there is no doubt that is absolutely correct >> it is not just that, right? >> you guys for years, you love shooting yourself in the collective foot retail >> that's the biggest disrupt activity forest that's taken place right now. a lot of people think we are at the end of the book and what's going to happen here there is going to be enormous structure change and there are too many stores. the u.s. have by far the dens per feet capita. it is 25 to 30% more than the next country which is canada and several times of retail square footage that you may find in a country in europe. >> we buy more how much less does ours have to become >> the key is -- >> that have to go out of business and have to close >> this is where i think you will miss it it is not where everybody is going to get together and agree to close 25% of their stores there is going to be enormous disruptions where people are consolidate. >> is it going to be one of those fights where five guys are fighting and they all end up losing and they all beat the heck out of each other and nobody comes out winners >> you cannot look at it this is just the beginning and some of those winners are going to come from the brooke aick an mortar's world whether they start a brick and mortar retailer, but it is a long way to go >> which retail are you looking at who are brick and mortars right now? >> there is fantastic returns out there. you got people like h&m and zara, a huge margin rate and they are very quick. and tj max, that company is worth $40 billion and look at where kohl's and macy's and tj max is worth more than all of them together. >> do you see what's going on with this here it appears to be an issue of market power we are telling guys to get rid of pipes or contents i wonder if this guy have been around when amazon deal has happened can you make the same argument about amazon >> i don't want to weigh into that i do think when you look at what's happening, the sprint office merger was blocked. i think there is a lot of looking of the old world horizontally and the real threat was office depoet. >> it sounds like you just weighed into that swamp. >> well, i have to, because you asked. >> i have this wild hypothesis there is a long wave going on here and right now we are in the internet wave. that eventually at some point, people are going to say i like the idea of going to the store and department stores are going to be different but they are going to come back people want to go and touch the merchandise and see the color and try the fit and get thi this -- walk out of the store that day and that minute with what they bought >> it is part of the winning model of brick and mortar. i think people confuse technology with the channel. the interprnet is for everyone. if you would thought -- >> here is the thing, retailers have really fallen behind, they had it to them and they had it open to them and failed. >> it is a long way to go. >> good to have you on gerald stort. here is what's coming up a super luxury new york city penthouse just sold at auction for multi million dollars discount went into foreclosure we'll talk to the ceo expedia about his company's rough third quarter and the path forward all of that and much more coming up on "power lunch." you always pay your insurance on time. tap one little bumper, and up go your rates. what good is having insurance if you get punished for using it? news flash: nobody's perfect. for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise your rates due to your first accident. switch and you could save $782 on home and auto insurance. call for a free quote today. liberty stands with you™ liberty mutual insurance. it is been a busy week for disney the company is set to report earnings after the bell today. what can we expect and where can the stock go this year gentlemen, good to have you here >> normally, barton, the whole narratives have changed, correct? reporting from david faber earlier this week, what are you looking to hear from disney this afternoon when they talk about what the future looks like for them >> well, the critical question is will they address it? if they do address its, , are ty going to try to push this aside and move on with business and more likely the ladder in which case we are focusing on subscribers and the nice narratives coming out of these are fox and cbs and broadcast are showing stability in subscribers which is a nice rebuttal to the head winds that kill these >> you know it is an interesting set up for the call tonight. >> i see that and matthew. in light of what we learn about whether or not they're pursuing 20th century fox asset we are going to change the business model and we are going over the top and realizing the world has changed and forget the focus on espn and all that stuff. >> well, i think this is realizing it and i think they really have in housekeeping and band tech and on the streaming side and critical mass and content and movie brands and it is proximately better than some of the other companies i think in reference to the direct tv time warner transaction. i think you are probably together and distribution does not necessarily work i think you have to be forward thinking and certainly, direct consum consumer for us, i would be shock if they had any -- >> guys as you know. our own andrew ross sat down with the ceo at&t, randall >> i have never been told that the price of getting the deal done was selling cnn, period >> and likewise, i have never offered to sell cnn and there is no intention of selling cnn. >> bart, what's your take as we think about possible mergers, are there new jerusalematioany ? >> i know there is been some reporting and randall rebutted the reporting and i trust to a degree of what he's saying publicly there is no way under antitrust law that you can file a case of the merger i would not be surprise to see them seeing all sorts of things getting some concessions if there is a court challenge, i would be shocked and i think it would hurt the credibility of the doj and this administration, i would be surprise if that happens and would expect it to fight. >> guys, we got some breaking news on this we have breaking news on other stuff, by the way. >> breaking news of the tax bill and ylan mui has it. >> reporter: we have confirmed several details of the senate tax bill there were seven individual tax breaks in the senate side that topped tax rate, four individuals will be 38.5%, in addition, the state and local tax deductions are repealed of the senate of the version of plan they are including an increase in the child's tax credit, that'll go from $1,000 to $1,650 >> for the mortgage interest, they are lower the interest detud deductions on newly purchased homes to a million dollars where it is currently. the senate version of the tax bill preserves the deductions from medical expenses. that's something that have been highly controversial and taken out of the hillside, the senate version of the tax bill would put that back in as far as the estate tax, that's not fully repealed of the senate version of the plan would double the exemption to hit by the estate tax but it does not get rid of it completely on the corporate side, again, we have reported that there would be a one year delay in getting that corporate rate down to 20%, however, the 20% number will be permanent in the senate's version of the tax bill. they would also institute full and immediate expensing but again, like the house side, that would be allowed for five years. the senate version of the bill would continue to limit the company's ability to deduct interest, it is unclear how they'll do that. we are still not sure exactly how those numbers would be if they plan to keep one for tangible and one for intangible. a few more details clearly, it is a complex bill that we are working through. >> it is, ylan >> thank you very much, you see the depressiciation bringing the market back. >> some new details from reuters that may clear up some of the big pictures and the biggest foreclosure of history in new york you got to see this to believe it you better pay cash, we'll be back after this. shield annuities from brighthouse financial, allow you to take advantage of growth opportunities. with a level of protection in down markets. so you can head into retirement with confidence. brighthouse financial established by metlife. is now a 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jinping. the two leaders toasted. the two are working towards a peaceful future for afghanistan. >> terrorists are a threat to all of humanity. we'll stop radical islamic terrorists >> oshkosh has thousands of recalls. the company received three reports of snap detaching. starting tomorrow, you can really have breakfast at tiffany's. this is a cafe that'll serve american classics and the menu will change and evolve throughout the season. it is one of the cheapest things you can buy at tiffany's, you can go to breakfast for 29 be you ca be -- 29 bucks >> you are right about that. >> blue is the color of my eyes. >> you are right >> we are going to move on now from more on the market action, lets bring in our directkenny. what's happening on the dow and now we are on the dow of 130 >> we found a little bit of support and we traded down to what were the october's highs and rally back a little bit. it does not feel like a strong rally and feels like it is a little anxious of what we are hearing. i don't think it is going to affect our market action throughout the rest of the year. it is going to be the rest of the year and going to be focusing on what's happening in dc and what happens with taxes and congress >> this was gas, the tax bill was not going to go through quickly. there are issues of contentious between the house and senate >> right >> they got a lot of work to do if they are going to get a reck reconcile bill >> i think it is frustrating for what the market is telling you -- kevin brady came out and talking about how they are working behind the scenes and they are going to come together with a great plan. the senate comes out had nothing to do with what the house comes to out to do. i don't think so -- they think they are going to get it done before thanksgiving. i don't think so >> i think you are right >> the most expensive foreclosure he foreclosure. here is robert frank with more on that story. luxury pen penthouse at the trophy tower the 6200 square foot it was purchased back in 2014 for $51.9 million and sold at $36 million. that's a $16 million loss. the owner is a nigerian bil billionaire. he defaulted on a $35 million mortgage from 2015 from a bank a lot of the over seas, he bought it through anonymous shell company. more of these apartments are comiing onto a market. we are seeing more of these foreclosures starting to pop up in miami and los angeles >> it is possible that people do have money around the world but because of all these restrictions, they cannot get it to the bank that they have to pay. >> that's correct. or the asset is seized up. a lot of chinese properties in austria are locked in foreclosure or sales the chinese government have seized them and they want the asset back >> robert barry burbanfrank, th much >> straight ahead, mark okesrstrom is going to join us we have a lot of "power lunch" in two-minutes this is not a cloud. this is a tomato tracked from farm to table on a blockchain, helping keep shoppers safe. this is a financial transaction secure from hacks and threats others can't see. this is a skyscraper whose elevators use iot data and ai to help thousands get to work safely and efficiently. this is not the cloud you know. this is the ibm cloud. the ibm cloud is the cloud for business. yours. ♪ ♪ i can't wait for her to have that college experience that i had. the classes, the friends, the independence. and since we planned for it, that student debt is the one experience, i'm glad she'll miss when you have the right financial advisor, life can be brilliant. ameriprise oil market is set to close for the day. jackie deangelis will tell us at the commodity desk >> that's right, crude prices are over $57 a barrel. rumors of change of leadership in saudi arabia. the saudis are planning to cut exports to all regions in november that's supportive to the market. a little context here, the 15% move that we have seen in the last month primarily been driven on geo political issues. it is important to note that u.s. production though finally cuts its 20th record yesterday there is still some competing within the market here >> thank you, jackie deangelis lets get down to see seema moody. >> thank you very much so much marc, what's going on here with the trip adviser price line. >> good to be here >> obviously, there is broader issues in the stock market that we are seeing with the stock we few the future optimistically going forward, our priorities are incredibly clear we'll become locally relevant. we can really push out of boundaries much further than we have been and much more center and executed with speed and the mark is massive so the opportunity is clear for us. there seems to be this fear in wall street of increase in spending in advertising, won't help growth, what's your reaction to that >> well, i think it is wrong from our perspective, if you look at the opportunity, there are over a million properties that exist in the world. we got 500,000 of them right now are under that the markieting spent when we bring consumers on the property platform as well the model works. >> what are you doing now to ensure what happens last quarter won't happen again >> executing on the fundamentals the ota model delivers an exceptional experience for consumers and hotels and suppliers and car rentals and etc. the quarter we saw impact from the hurricanes, it is out of our control we saw some disappointments from trivago. it is clear sites ahead on the future >> we spoke to glenn fogel this morning about new competitions there is been some discussions on the sideline of amazon potentially getting to the online traveling space have you been speaking to jeff bezos at all about this? >> any time you have a mass opportunity of travels and a number of players who are doing well as we see in this industry, it is going to attract newcomb ti competitions. that means we have to innovate faster and customer center that's our goal that we plan to do >> melissa has a question back at the studio. yeah, hi mark, you take a look at what you guys are saying across the board and not a optimistic outlook for the fourth quarter what does that tell us when we look at the travel stocks and royal caribbeans which are closed to an all time high or 52-week highs, what's going on with online travel and actual operators? >> well, i think it is hard to draw a connection from an online travel perspective, i would tell you the first half of this year are 17% year over year when you adjust for the storms that we saw in the third quarter, 17% year over year we continue to see incredibly robust growths that's two to three or four times as fast as the overall industry they are unrelated and we wish our hotel partners the best of luck >> lets speak to our ultimate capitol who says expedia should buy lyft >> of course, it is a strategy and we are loyal to uber right now. keep the conversation there, mark okerstrom, thank you, back to you straight ahead, we'll talk to the 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(child giggles) symbicort. breathe better starting within 5 minutes. get symbicort free for up to one year. visit saveonsymbicort.com today to learn more. albemarle is up 61% this year will it continue with capital demand for lithium luke, it is great to have you back on "power lunch." >> it is great to be here. >> a lot of traders referring to albemarle as a lithium company it is a stand alone business so you can focus on the growth there. what will that enable you to do in terms of growth and targets >> i think we are going to continue to see the growth and at least 10,000 metric tons of volume metric growth between now and the next four to five years. we said next year in 2018 and 2017, business grew about 50% are expected to grow that much this year and next year we are looking at another 20% growth from on abbott line standpoint so continue decades long growth and driven by demand of lithium for use in battery storage you have a net sale growth for 61% driven by volume growth and pricing growth of 32% primarily for that demand of battery help us understand this. for instance, if these two companies are tied together, tesla and abemarle, lets say if tesla says we are thnot going to build as many cars, should albemarle should be concerned? not at all we caught to look at automotive industry and if you look this past year, there is been 25 new announcements of new electric vehicles that's going to be bruced ov introduced the next two years. we want everyone to be successful and we are looking forward to be able to supply all of our customers with the demand that's rolling out over the next two or three or four or five years. >> when you look at the tremendous ramp in demand, the tremendous in production of evs over the next ten years, 20 years or so on, some of the bears on a company and tesla, i mentioned that because it is one of the few pure played and publicly traded companies out there. there is a problem in supply change and rare earth are needed for that electric motor minorinr for that to be that efficient. china is sitting on it and they are not giving it to us. there are problems within the change that could impact your growth >> yeah, i think if you look overall, there is going to be certainly, there will be a challenge for lithium, we see lithium being in really supply/demand balance over the next few years you got cobalt and metal i adodon't see it being a significant problem over the next three or five years it is harder for me, melissa, to look out 20 years and say what's going to happen. if 20 years ago, nobody would have been talking about lithium and batteries. as of this business is evolving there is a tremendous amount of research dollars being spent and finding way to improve energy and battery and look at those scarce metals around the world and subtisidies continuing to drive the growth and meeting demands. >> density of a battery sounds like a fantastic thing. is that a bad thing for albemarle, could that backfire potentially? >> you know i don't think it can in a short term. when luke you look at it right o all research being focused is trying to find ways to put more lithium. lithium drives the energy density. can we put more lithium in that battery? you are looking at lithium metals and opportunities where you would see higher energy density which would result inbaa percentage basis now, it may be different than lithium carbonate or lithium hydroxide that is in the market today but our researchers are working to make sure whether it's lithium sulfate, lithium metal or lithium air that we're there with what our customers need. >> thanks so much for spending time with us on "power lunch." we appreciate it. >> hey, melissa, thanks a lot, thanks for having me have a good day. >> ceo of albemarle. attention has been on the faangs and tech names. one outperformed them all. overstock.com up over 100% over te past two months. willhis momentum continue? that one's ahead on "power." [vo] progress is an unstoppable force. the season of audi sales event is here. audi will cover your first month's lease payment on select models during the season of audi sales event. shares of e-commerce retailer overstock.com skyrocketing, moving 20% today on the back of earnings, and get this, overstock up 180% this year its best year is 2004. den nni dennis larry mcdonald larry, overstock.com and its controversial founder used to be in the news all the time, we kind of forgot about him this has been a battleground stock. a lot of shorts got burned very badly. 180% gain, though, are you an overstock believer >> well, you know, wall street, if you look around the street in terms of the opinions of the analysts, there's one analyst that covers the stock. that's dangerous for any equity investor, forget about overstock. there's only one analyst, and this summer that analyst had a $25 price target and the stock is now double that price so that's the first warning sign the second warning sign is, if you go back to the dotcom era, go back over the last 30 years, from time to time there's a phenomenon like cryptocurrencies today, dotcoms in '99. just because you move into a space doesn't necessarily mean you can have a sustainable higher multiple just because you're going into a new sector. >> yeah, dendennis, from a volatility standpoint, 180% isn't really viable. it's all up shot any way to protect yourself if you're a little nervous about earning the name >> options in this name are really expensive this is one area where the options guys were the mush look at the volume in this stock yesterday prior to this big move, it was all put buying in this stock so that was completely wrong what we're seeing today is all call buying in the stock and, you know, if they stay true to form as yesterday, the options guys are not the place to look for any insight on this stock. options are really expensive i wouldn't be a buyer of options in this stock. if you have an opinion in this stock, get long it or get it short it then sell the options against it to lower. this is one of few areas in volatility nowadays where having 100-plus volatility in underlying assets, they're going into bitcoin so all bets are off. >> all bets are off. all right. dennis, larry, looking at overstock, been a heck of a year thank quyou very much. for more trading nation, everybody, go to tradin tradingnation.cnbc.com et even works on your mobile device "check please" is next. >> the latest from tradingnation.cnbc.com and word from our sponsor. >> position side and risk/reward ratio are two important aspects of building a winning trade. you don't want a single position to be too big a percentage of your tradeable assets. additionally, you want to make sure there's enough profit potential to justify the risk you're taking. consistently constructing suitable trades and adhering to your exit plan can help you build on trading successes ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ what we do every night is like something out of a strange dream. except that the next morning it all makes sense. to power global e-commerce fedex networks are massive, far-reaching and, yes... a little magical. fedex.com slash dream check please >> all right, folks, the sausage making is really picking up steam on capitol hill with the tax bill today the senate out with its version of the tax bill delaying apparently the corporate tax cuts to 2019 throwing that into the discussion, chairman brady saying he's going to raise the tax rate on repateuated earnings from 12% to 14% for cash, 5% to 7% for illiquid assets brought back in. this tells you there's a lot of scrambling going on, i sthanksgs going to be met. let's show you what's going on with at&t and time warner he said once again he did not offer to sell cnn, nor was he asked to however, fresh reporting from reuters saying the doj is going too ask them to either sell turning broadcasting which would include krn cnn or directv barons suggests aless than 50% chance of the deal actually happening. >> retail stocks in the comeback. >> yep. >> there cyou go. >> thanks for watching "power lunch. "closing bell" starts right now. welcome to the "closing bell," everybody, dizzying the word you just used >> it's dizzying out there, isn't it >> i'm kelly evans at the new york stock exchange. another very busy day. >> i'm bill griffeth it's unbelievable how many things are going on all at the same time. there are leaks about the senate tax plan, that's been driving this market all day today. at its low, the dow was down 253 points on fears about what's going on with the tax reform package. or packages. let's get to ylan mui in washington breaking new