Transcripts For BLOOMBERG Bloomberg Markets European Close 20170906

Our international correspondent, hopefully i have the title right and marty schenker. What is your title, i do not have it . Marty it is too long. The smartest guy. Julie are you surprised we are not seeing much of a Market Reaction . Marty i am not surprised because rates are so low and the markets had priced out a december rate hike at the moment. There is not a lot of plays for them to go. Stanley fischer is the vice chair, not of chair, he is very influential but also seen as a yellen and janet the fact she is there does not change the outlook for shortterm policy. It might change longterm about who gets appointed but between now and the end of january when she would believe in her position probably does not have a major impact. That stansay this fischer has vast relationships around the world with other Central Banks and he was, i am sure, the goto guy when central bankers from around the world needed feedback about the u. S. That is a communication mechanism and will be gone which i think will give some pols two people were pause to people running the Central Banks. It is hard to overstate his contribution to monetary policy. This is a man who taught been bernanke at mario draghi ben bernanke and mario draghi. Mark you wonder what mario draghi is ranking with that big thinking with that they did thinking with that big decision for trump has of the power to shape 2 institutions for he has withd the Supreme Court the appointment of neil gorsuch a he can shape the fed and his and he can shape the fed in his own light. How do you expect them to do that . Marty he is acutely aware of the feedback for Market Participants and business leaders. He wanted to be a member of that club and frankly done things to try to please those people in many respects although notwithstanding and daca notwithstanding. He will try to shape it in a responsible manner because of that is the way he has approached these previous fed them nominations fed nominations and kept gary cohn close to him. I think that would be his legacy, just like you think gorsuch was a tremendously viable pick and a if i may say, judicious one, i think he will go in that direction, a person uniquely qualified for that position. Julie who couldnt that people who could that person be . Is there anybody else like that was such a lion of the community . Michael not anybody you can point to and economics is more politically polymerized over the years but there are some republicans who have good reputations. At columbia university, we mentioned john taylor at sanford stanford. They are thought well of in the communities. There are options for him to do something of a mainstream pick. Julie i want to bring in Kevin Cirilli, our chief washington correspondent for more on the trump perspective. We have heard about tro commentary trump commentary about yellen, do we know about his relationship with fischer and mike is giving the Economic Perspective on who might be a replacement, politically, who could be a potential replacement . Kevin you have to look at this through the lens of the president s relationship with the gary cohn and he was perceived to be for the last week after leading the effort of driving is going to replace fed chair yellen. With Stanley Fischer out, the question is will gary still have that influence in creating and shaping the direction of some of the very significant Federal Reserve nominees . In terms of where this is headed, the president has seemingly had a kinship for theing folks who are from rubin trade of thought and from the Goldman Sachs community. Will sing that was secretary treasury debt we have seen that with treasury secretary mnuchin a gary cohn. Well have to wait and see. We have seen that with treasury secretary mnuchin and gary cohn. Andord out a treasury capitol hill is digesting this. Julie we should remind our viewers that President Trumps meeting not just congressional leaders, paul ryan and mitch mcconnell, for also nest visit the lows in Chuck Schumer at talking but nancy pelosi and a Chuck Schumer. We have been talking about how there is now a need to replace stan fischer pretty quickly. We have been talking about it from congressional perspective in terms of confirming that person. What about from the white house perspective and how quickly they can come up with a nominee . Kevin the white house has been frustrated at how slowly congress has moved. I have spoken to several people in washington who are frustrated at the case of the Senate Banking Committee Led by mike crapo, the head republican on alongho will have to move the nomination of whoever the white house picks. No comments from the Senate Banking committee as of the moment. They have a busy to do list. The chairman has said he wants to get the Flood Insurance. The hurricane news developing and that really created a new incentive to get through Flood Insurance first. As a deregulatory financial philosophy policy. How long how soon they can move on long nominations is yet to be seen. Aere will be fireworks for number of Top Democrats included potential 2020 president ial candidate elizabeth warren. Julie thank you. Kevin some really and Michael Mckee Kevin Cirilli and Michael Mckee and marty schenker. We have some hurricane news. Mark breaking news. The bank will move the headquarters to filling from theen, its home country available its headquarters from sweden, is home country. Region biggestc lender and will run if the business out of helsinki and to move from stockholm would take it from criticizing the government. The move is expected to be affected in the second half of the next year. You can see how those shares in nordea are faring at the end of todays session, moving headquarters to finland for breaking news, this is bloomberg. News, back to breaking Federal Reserve vicechairman Stanley Fischer is resigning after serving three years at the central bank. That resignation effective october 13. For more perspective, i want to bring in tom keene, surveillance anchor on tv and radio. You spoke to stan fischer, how long ago . Tom 6, 8, 10 weeks ago before jackson hole and we have a great relationship over the years when he was serving at citigroup. I do not think anybody should be surprised. There is a politics within washington that is widely presumed but it is a bit of a surprise. Julie that he did not finish out his term. I want to play sound with your interview with him when he talks about the a political nature of the fed. Stanley fischer we really do political make decisions. We take into account what is happening in the economy and what people think about and what might happen to policy. But, we are not going to make whations on the basis of the pressures we are getting politically. Julie that has been thought his story position of the said historic position on the fed and does it change with donald trump able to . Taylor it will be a shift. It is clearly a shift. What stan fischer represents going about to the crisis of 1998 and a book called the red book, put out after it is it is a guy who has had to see the language between Economic Data linkage linkage between economic am politics across many periods . Calm it that levity, you are removing a key figure within the global central Banking System as marty and mike were saying. A great but when the fed and other Central Banks, a great link, wasnt he . Tom a great interlink. How are you . He is and was a great link. Do not forget former undersecretary for International Affairs is there at some one of thought she would of moved on and she is still there. To what tom said, is it what is the surprise is it is happening this early. Vice chairs typically do not get reelected. Some headlines we are getting. Dumped from sales to sort through the problems of the country in a rational way and no second thoughts on the action of dr. Of daca. He said the u. S. Has great assets and watch to discuss with this new Hurricane Irma coming and asks about above pelosischumer proposal and said some headlines from congressional leaders from both parties. This as he has another big decision to make in terms of the fact and a chairman as well and the end of the year. Dan, when you talk about the International Links that fischer has, how important is it for his replacement to have some of those International Connections . But it would be a plus International Experience on the board already and he said the feds staff. The staff does not good enough credit. The people at the new york fed so know their counterparts International Experience would clearly be a plus. Tom i would go with this. But what i want to point out is the idea of this shift to what we will see with the President Trump and that mr. Which is uncertainty that mystery which is uncertainty. Even with a comfort as dan maes mentioned, the good phds atthe fed. Mark mark carney said it was an extraordinary privilege to work with mr. Stanley fischer crossing of the bloomberg terminal. As we were saying, he may be move from bank of israel governor to vice chair of the fed. You know him. How is it that a move . How easy was it from him to go to the head of one central bank to him as the head of one central bank, the biggest in the world . Wasnt that a move he always relished and look ahead to . Tom i think he enjoyed it immensely and he went from the hugest success at the bank of israel over to a fed where he was certainly is the advisor to the chairs bernanke and yellen. What i would suggest with governor carneys comment, it is a guy we forget who he is. This was a phd advisor for a guy named bernanke and a phd advisor for a guy named draghi and a young kid out of harvard. Within 20ths place century economics, julie, going back to the classic textbook. It is considered a benchmark of reading within economics. Toie is there anybody else ask this question to mike mckee earlier and he said no one obvious lack of that kind of pedigree . It moss it is unique but does not mean there are people who cannot perform the role traditionally given to the fed vice chair. I what to get back to 2 things. The shift and certainly a shift. If you look at the people who President Trump has put in the frame, Randy Quarles are not strangers to the system. ,andy, fairly mainstream republican, Economic Policy guy. Served in a number of positions at the george w. Bush treasury, paul oneill and george snow and paulson for a while. Fairly mainstream and not going to take a part of the system. Marvin, famous for his hard money. He is an institutionalist. The system will survive. This is a moment. Fischer was a person who brought Rare International and intellectual stature to the job. It is worth marking at the moment. The institution lives on. Tom can i mentioned some names . Julie we will come back. To the president and playback of his meeting. President trump other places, we will see what happen and we will know but it looks like something that could be not a good. Believe me, not good. We have many, many things on at the plate and hopefully we can solve them in a rational way. Maybe we will not be able to and we will probably know at the end of the meeting at the meetings over a short. Of time short pedal of time. We have some liabilities we have to work out. I appreciate every body being here. Thank you very much, messi nancy. Thank you, thank you. Thank you very much. We will see. No second thoughts. I hope they do. I certainly hope they do. Julie the president said no second thoughts 80 was referring to his action on the dreamers announced yesterday no second thoughts and he was referring to his action on the dreamers announced yesterday by attorney general sessions. Theheard him thanking leaders after the meeting, the first we have seen with congressional leaders of both parties to discuss a host of different issues on congress plays. One will be to confirm the vicechairman of the Federal Reserve was of the white house make the nomination. Tom, you had a thought. To who do we want to speak not only today but going into surveillance tomorrow . There are three names that have some of the makeup from vicechairman fischer and one would be adam was given great leadership and a tour of duty with the bank of england. Crossovernor carney, this think. His experience in japan. Tom exactly. The other is olivia, clearly indicated of a french economist and ath an mit heritage great internationalist. I do not know if any of the three would dovetail with President Trumps theology. Julie maybe i am talking out of turn, it would be difficult to see him nominate somebody not an american, a frenchman for example. Dan moss if you look at the appointments the president has made or flag for the Federal Reserve, these are institutionalists, not people out the general the chairman of the fed . Julie but to his point, with a potential 2 openings at the Federal Reserve and the uncertainty you talk about what the markets are nonwestern reflecting that at the moment. The dollar fell to the lowest. About, the markets are not reflecting that at the moment. There does not seem to be a lot of concern that the fed will take a left turn. Tom u. S. Having to manage x number of reporters two dans point you have to manage x number of reporters for dan moss structure a whole said around policymaking right now. There are the dots, the forecasts, the press conferences. It is a world of transparency and as far as the dollar is concerned, quite a bit of other things going on at the moment and what surprise increase from the bank of canada and the big ecb day tomorrow. Almost existential questioning edarting to seep into f discussion with what is going on with inflation at how come the phillips curve is not acting as it should with unemployment. A lot going on with the dollar and the institutional changes presided over by bernanke and yellen which makes the fed kind of a different place than it was. Mark do we bother looking at withots beyond of the year the upcoming change in personnel . Part b, to what extent does thehers departure change timing of the Balance Sheet and normalization or the amount of hikes we might expect and the next six to 12 months . Balance let us take sheet normalization, i do not think it will change at all. They have signaled the december vote will be the question of Balance Sheets reduction and it is hard to see stan fischers departure altering that trajectory. As far as the dots beyond next year, who knows. If you look at this year and with the previous 2 years, the markets was actually a better guide than the dots at this time the dots are a better guide. It i would really emphasize is a gentleman who spent his career who has an immense respect for uncertainty and it meant respect patience. Ts. This is not somebody who makes quick a rash decisions and of the politics of running any governmental institution. Within that, vice chairman fisher holds out for a Younger Generation to counsel patients and let the facts become observable. It almost plays whole mosh to milton free homage to milton friedman. Julie it does not feel like a risk of the fed a less patient body especially as tom that is a good point. Choices. Safe tom we do have the patience in particular with the chair yellen who serves much in common with the vicechairman. Dan moss it has been a very cohesive board and a long time a veryhave seen a long time. Asis probably fair to say remarkable of a career as stan fischer has had, it has not been entirely flawless. I was a bureau chief in asia for bloomberg in the late 1990s. The prescriptions the iff made toro Company Goals to accompany did attract some criticisms for the austerity indonesia, a in company bind a number of Bank Foreclosures that were not forcing. Yes, great career. A mind for the ages. But in a career of this size, you are going to have a few bald spots. Is willwith us among us would is without flaws . Thankene and dan moss, you for helping us interpreted this news. This is bloomberg. We will be right back. Is the european close. Stocks finishing the session marginally higher and we were down earlier for of the third day and taking most of the declines as an industry group. We are down for a third day. Utilities lead and insurance falling since the lowest level since february, down 6. 5 after reaching a high on august 8. That iswas at three and over june last year. Thats the stoxx 600. With had a busy macro day. A busy day for macro data. German factory orders falling. 7 , europeans biggest economy getting ready for an election. It is volatile after two consecutive increases. This is what this chart shows theel is poised to win election according to the most recent polls. Bloc but thetion withstanding euro exports as the ecb mulls unwinding stimulus and increased the demand for upside exposure to the eurodollar across the front end steepening the most 1. 25 day risk reversal. Above 30 basis points, the strongest since august 4 despite the probability of draghi dropping the currency tomorrow. A few days ago, risk reversal below as europe puts trade at a premium. Themberg said even though strength is expected, a number of reasons that have investors looking for a kneejerk reaction not to 12 lasting effect. Breaking news and the last hour, nordea. Check out the shares for it coming down after the move upward will move its headquarters in finland to sweden in a stepped up with the Nordic Regions only global important banking site and the lendere, the biggest with the future to run out of helsinki and the decision to move from stockholm taken at a Board Meeting after nordea criticized with his government for imposing what it cap arise as unreasonable Regulatory Burden what is categorized as a reasonable Regulatory Burden. Just coming down from the highs of when it jumped 2. 4 and finishing the day up by 0. 4 . Julie really interesting story talking about banks moving from london and one movie. . Moving from stockholm. Holding onto gains in energy almost the strongest areas at was a little bit of weakness in a technology which explains the small drop in the nasdaq. Seeing of stocks, were oil prices go higher and that has been helping Energy Stocks here and with been watching we have been watching, oil is at the bottom. 10year yield on change even after the news Stanley Fischer will be stepping down as vice chair of the Federal Reserve. The dollarling is falling to the lows of the session for you more on the oil picture. We are live at barclays, conference after harvey and its that the top of the agenda and now,. And now arm a. And now Hurricane Irma. Alix all the ceos in the u. S. In energy converge and im joined by one, brian sheffield, ceo of Parsley Energy, 8 billion market cap and operates in the permian. So great to talk to you. Thank you for being here. Lets talk about harvey and the impact of hurricane arm. Hurricane irma, what have you noticed . Bryan sheffield our thoughts and prayers go out to the victims in the houston area. For industry purposes, we are looking to through hundreds of to put a finger on it of how much it will affect production and it seems like a number of refineries have shut down. As of today, it looks like they are back online. Wellse not shut down any but there are a few batteries we had to choke back a little bit. I would say it is very small. Alix is it a downstream issue . You cannot move it down the pipeline and it gets stuck and the permian . Bryan sheffield the Permian Basin has 4 days of extra storage if we had to shut down clear across the board and Parsley Energy has 4 days for that is a todays total. That is eight days total. That is a doomsday prediction. Alix let us take the capacity for a moment. One of the concerns is so much activity you will not have the access to get the oil and natural gas out. Where are you in that . Dave camp we are stash Bryan Sheffield Bryan Sheffield we are sitting pretty and the rampup has begun. Selfabor it self, its itself. We cannot put a finger on until the august call and nine of the 10 permians, we delayed the we put it the next quarter or by the end of the year by that is where investors should focus on couple more of timing and a big ramp up and the spring. Fourth quarter and in 2016, we were fracking nine states and now eight per day per little small things add up. the waterline and the frack and we have to retrain as the frack have to sinync the and we have to retrain the crews. Alix you have to slow it down, you will not fit to ramp up like you thought, is that true . Dave camp it it Bryan Sheffield it is a timing thing. Thes all about diluting crews. The crews are getting closer and closer to getting back to the online stages per day or the wireline in place to each crew. Each crew is a Different Company and you have to do to them in sync. Alix how long will it take for them to catch up and to be the a team . Bryan sheffield it usually , probablyto 9 months in the middle of spring, maybe the middle of the Third Quarter. Theres a huge wrap up of production coming of these completion delays and we can get completed by the end of the Third Quarter as some talking about First Quarter 2018. Oil stays, can you hold onto your market and ramp up production and keep Production Target . Dave camp 45. Bryan 50 is good45 to and they will mature together up toster but if oil goes 55, it could be a potential setback on what you are talking about. Alix because of more drilling. Let us talk about the actual infrastructure, isnt there anything to be said about mainstream contracts to match the growth target you are looking at . Bryan sheffield Parsley Energy has been fortunate to dedicate the acreage. We are not forced to deliver a production with our ministering companies. A number of permian companies, and old field, or by a three inch dedication is a ge dedicationacrea instead of production. The negotiating table was flipped and they said we will and we want your production what it in contract and will fortunate only acreage. Alix what is the chokepoint for infrastructure . When will you not have enough . Bryan sheffield mid, we were drilling in the 1940s, 1950s and 1960s and was surrounded by pipelines built since the 1960s and it seems that theyre updating and they said ahead of our forecast and especially on the oil now and we are producing more gas than anticipated. Oil is looking the same but we are producing more gas and that is a slight fear and two to three years but i will hang my hat on the midstream as have kept up with us and the gas guys will keep up with us and continue to build antiarmor acreage dedicated. Alix hedges for 2018, how hedged are you . Updated afield we slide and we have increased hedge from 70 versus oil on cousins and 2018 and not 95 hedged at 50 oil. An enormous amount of hedging. The Trump Administration, do you think it is fulfilling its promise to be supportive of the oil and gas industry and what have they changed . That sheffield it seems the administration has been helpful along midstream has really helped us out. But on the flipside, i do worry about trade. We need to trade with our partners and other countries and there have been talk about potential terrorist on the steel. We import most of our steel. It seems like a mixed bag with the Trump Administration per alix thank you. Bryan sheffield, ceo of parsley. For 2018 is hard to get bullish on oil would you hear Something Like that. When got passas about temporary effects on the hurricane for bloombergs alix steel. Let us check in on first word news, Courtney Donohoe has more. Coordinate planning for the worst in florida which can lie in the path of the most powerful storm to form idiomatic ocean for Hurricane Irma has made landfall with winds up to 185 miles per hour. Someones project it could hit florida thisfor Hurricane Irma e weekend and projections a good cause more damage is than Hurricane Katrina , the was expensive Natural Disaster in u. S. History. Federal reserve vice chairman Stanley Fischer resigning and he plans to leave next year if what he described as personal reasons. He had been vicechairman since 2014 at considered an elder statesman off of American Finance a year is the former chief economist of the world bank and first deputy managing director of the imf. House Speaker Paul Ryan backs President Trumps decision to give congress six months to the dreamers for trump was right and made the right call and he gave us time to work out a consensus to find a compromise the mosthese kids, for part, do not know and other home than the United States. I think the president was right to give us the time to find a compromise. According to the president ended courtney the president and his program as said the matter is up to congress. Germanys finance minister warned there is no free lunch and break the top. Wolfgang schaeuble said at the sinking in is to find solutions that will keep the damage to both sides as limited as possible. Global news 24 hours a day, powered by more than 2700 journalists and analysts in more than 120 countries, i am Courtney Donohoe. This is bloomberg. Julie thank you. Coming up, tax reform at the center of President Trumps progrowth agenda but can moderates and conservative republicans get on the same page . We will explore. This is bloomberg. Mark i am mark barton. Julie i am julie hyman and this is european close on bloomberg. President trump met with leaders from both sides. What topic is tax reform. It has been at the center of his progrowth agenda. Thats one topic is tax reform. There are conflicting reports of what it will look like that if it can get through. Joining us is dave camp a senior policy advisor at price water cooper. Congressman, thank you for joining us. We have not gotten a concrete the yet and we have heard president is approaching this in a more methodical fashion that it was somewhat health care. What do you think will come out of the discussions . What will it look like . Dave camp one of the big emphasis on the growth and how do we make the lives of average People Better and that will be a key part. Theeeded to grow in Business Community and make sure we can relocate our companies and jobs here at the United States and not have them move overseas for tax purposes. Modernizing our tax code and making it simpler and fairer and maybe a middleclass tax cut as part of the package. There is a lot to be done and were going to be watching carefully and this fall will be an important time to see if they can get that kind of consensus to move an issue disappointed forward. Julie to get that this confesses because it has been desk confesses because it consensus because it has been difficult to calm by. What are some areas of commonality that you see not only between republicans and democrats but various wings of the Republican Party . See aamp obviously, you lot coming out on the individual side, lowering rates and reducing the number phrase and a standard eduction and a lot commonality on the International Side of finding a way to bring the dollars trapped overseas back. Modernizing our International Tax system so we can compete with the rest of the world. The Biggest Issue that unites everybody is a lower tax rate added to the extent they can emphasize those issues, they are issues that not only bring more pompous together but republicans and democrats. Julie all of this seems to be a wish list than actual piece of legislation. The deadline for this or the gulf are getting done has been pushed back several times. Can it get done in 2017 at this time . Dave camp i think there are a lot of competing issues, Hurricane Harvey the latest facing congress. I think they can make significant progress and would not be surprised if the actual anl, signing of the bill or acting of does not occur until 2018. If they make enough progress, they have the ability to move it into early next year. Julie you talked about how there are two issues tax cuts and a true tax reform on the other. To reform willt get it done here rather than a smaller still tax cut . Dave camp one of the things about reform is the economy of the United States is huge, to use of the word, a large economy and to advocate it, you need to. O more rather than less if the objective is growth and increase income, you want to do more. If that is not possible, certainly anything you can done at the tax reform area would be helpful and maybe not as robust and have as large an impact. Julie own at the corporate side, it may be less something the public is pushing for but a Big Companies care about a reduction in the corporate rate. If you are looking at a rate cut , is it is not at least 24 or lower, will lose the Corporate America not satisfied with that level . I dont know, it depends on the other moving parts. Reducing their rates as low as possible is key. The president said 15 and the house blueprint is 20 . If it is a way to break it down, 20 5 was the number i hit on the bill i worked but the average has, down below that. I think it will be a competing it a priorityng to get that break down as low as possible because with the highest Corporate Tax of developed economies and the secondhighest effective rate. It is important that the in priority and they do something what theyt and thats are trying hard to do. Julie we shall see at thank you. Dave camp former chair of the house ways mean committee. Giving us some insight. Mark thank you. Nordea moving its headquarters and we are live for more on this developing story. This is bloomberg. Mark back on breaking news from nordea bank. The lender moving hq to finland from sweden and puts of the region, the Nordic Region only global systemically important to bring into the european banking the union and the eurozone editor joins us now from copenhagen. Why the move . They have been threatening to do Something Like this for quite a while but the recent a reason is swedens government has simply planned to raise the fees they pay toward a resolution reserve and that is the last straw and they complain that it has been unpredictable and they want something more predictable and they said the banking the union was the place to go. Mark how much of it is a blow for sweden . Tasneem finland has lobbied hard to get nordea to move and they want a systemic leeco port to be in the eurozone. It has been significant in the region because nordea changed subsidiaries and to branches where it was based was where the cloud was thats been problematic. The regulator has had less power. Mark does it reduce Capital Requirements and improve returns and boost earnings per share . We are still crunching the numbers but before the announcement was made, analysts predicted that will be the case and today the bank said if the dividend policy are unchanged and we are still waiting for those details to come from analyses. The impact in a straightforward way on the daytoday operations on the daytoday running of the lender . Tasneem that will be fairly limited and they said it today it will affect a limited number of employees and essentially the bank is listed across of the Nordic Region. This is pretty much for nordea, not a huge restructuring. It is a bigger outcome for the region of the regulators in the region. The biggest bank, the Nordic Regions only International Systemic lender can shop around for a more accommodative environment. Mark will sweeten become a lighter . On the regulatory front . Four will does not change . Saying so far, they are that is unlikely and indicating and the point is they want to create an environment where the taxpayer is safe. They had a big financial and ths they want to create an they have justified their stricter with the argument. With nordea a branch in sweden and sweden trying to uphold stricter requirements than the rest of the Nordic Region, it is reasonable to anticipate there will be further talks and how to fix of the dynamic. Mark Tasneem Brogger thank you. Nordic managing editor. Houses to vote on the harvey a rebel. The bill would provide debt harvey aid harvey aid the bill. Onwill keep you posted bloomberg tv. From new york, this is bloomberg. So we need tablets installed. With the menu app ready to roll. In 12 weeks. Yeah. The world of fast food is being changed by faster networks. Data, applications, customer experience. Which is why comcast business delivers Consistent Network Performance and speed across all your locations. Fast connections everywhere. Thats how you outmaneuver. Hyman, vonnie quinn is off. Welcome to bloomberg markets. Julie from bloomberg world headquarters, the top stories of the bloomberg and from around the world. Federal reserve five chair Stanley Fischer resigned and gives President Trump to reshape leadership at the u. S. Central stormategory five Hurricane Irma hitting the caribbean and barreling toward florida. Why it could be the most expensive storm in u. S. History. Barclaysrom ceo from Energy Conference later this hour. First, two markets, abigail doolittle. Quite admixed a is for very small moves for stocks. Investors with a rebound. Look at the nasdaq. Down ever so slightly and earlier down