This is bbc news. Well have the headlines for you at the top of the hour, which is straight after this programme. Hello, im Katie Razzall and this week on the Media Show, were talking about Donald Trumps false claims that migrants are Eating Pets in ohio. Were learning about life as a reporter in china with the Economists Man in beijing. And well go inside the race for al and the Tech Bro rivalries at the heart of it. Synthesiser Music Backup vocals and funky beat plays thats one of many remixes that Donald Trumps false claim that haitian immigrants are eating Household Pets has spawned that one by the musician the kiffness. False it may well be, but the claim has dominated news cycles, and onejournalist set out to find the source of the now Debunked Rumour. Jack brewster is Enterprise Editor at newsguard, and hes been telling us about how he did it. Yeah, so finding the source of this claim is almost as interesting as the claim itself. We went to the screenshot that everyone was sharing online, purporting to come from the person who originally shared the claim, and it was posted first in this private facebook group. And when it was shared on x which is where it went viral somebody had redacted the name at the top, so you couldnt tell who was the original poster of this claim. But my colleague and i noticed that a couple of the letters were exposed at the top and so, we zoomed in and after about a few minutes of searching, we guessed that the name might be erica, just by the way that the tops of the letters were exposed and then, we went sleuthing. We went searching across facebook groups for Pet Lovers and other kinds of people in springfield, ohio to try and see if there was any match for this profile. And eventually, ifound her in this Springfield Pet Group and was able to contact her. And when you contacted her, what did she tell you about why she did it . Who was she . She was, you know, a rather long time resident of springfield, ohio who said she wasjust concerned about what she had heard from her neighbour. She said that she wanted to alert people in the town about what she thought might be happening to pets and warn people and so she posted, again, in this private facebook group. She was said she was shocked that it ended up on the president ial Debate Stage about a week later. But. But did she have any remorse . Was she worried that it was false . Did she know it was false . What was she saying about all that . No, she pushed back on that. You know, when we told her that city managers, City Officials had told her that the claim was false, she pushed back on it and said that she didnt believe those claims and she said again that she heard this from her neighbour. And so, she said she trusted her neighbour as a source and said that haitians had, indeed, caused some problems in the town and she thought there was validity to what her neighbour was saying. And then, she connected us to her neighbour, who again said that she did not see this first hand. Right . So, again, this is like a game of telephone. The person that we were able to speak to, even one down the line, said she heard it third hand so, this was a rumour that spread from, you know, one person to the next person to the next person, eventually ending up on the president ial Debate Stage. And what impact do you think its had, this rumour, on springfield, ohio . Oh, its had a massive effect. I mean, theres been bomb threats, you know, theres people who are descending on the town to report on it, so theres been theres been a lot of disruptions there. The town has become, you know, this Focal Point of this this viral false narrative and has distracted from some of the real issues going on, you know, with immigration in the united states. And, you know, Thats Part of why this claim went viral. Theres been so much talk about immigration in this election and this is kind of a distraction, right . Theres not theres no epidemic of immigrants eating peoples pets. Theres been, in fact, no verified report about this happening. And yet, its dominated our political discourse in the united states. And it has taken on a life of its own, as i was saying, via memes shared by all sides of the political spectrum and i want to talk more about that and their impact with a] bauer, whos Assistant Professor at the Department Ofjournalism at the university of alabama. Hello. How did it go, then, from Debunked Rumour to meme . Just talk me through that. Yeah, so one of the benefits of the kind of proliferation of Ai And Other Sorts of technologies means that nowadays, its kind of democratised the access to meme making, right . Before, you used to have to be able to use photoshop or something like that in order to put together images that didnt really exist. Nowadays, you can type it into a, you know, chatgpt or ai search cue, grok on twitter, and get images right there. And so, i think that once someone like Donald Trump says something before, you know, tens of millions of people on a Debate Stage, then youre off to the races. And for those who havent seen them who might be listening or watching, how do you describe the memes from trump or his supporters . How would you characterise them . Yeah, so trump himself has been Sharing Images of himself with ai generated cats and ducks those are some of the claims around these racist claims about immigrants eating animals. It typically focuses on ducks and cats and so, images of trump with them. There was one image of a cat holding a sign that said, save me from kamala, or, i hate kamala, or something along those lines. So, theres been a whole lot of. There was another one, i think, of a Cat Holding A Gun to defend itself from immigrants, so kind of cartoonish images. And are they being used memes and videos on the other side to debunk the claims . Thats usually what happens. Yeah, so i think that its the way that its being used on the other side is kind of to mock trump in some ways and make fun of republicans for this kind of ludicrous claim that migrants would be Eating Pets. But i think that theres a real problem with that as a response in that, yes, its making fun of Trump And Vance, etc, but its also amplifying this issue of immigration which ends up, in the long run, benefiting Trump And Vance. The reason why theyre emphasising this is because they want to prime voters to make immigration the top issue as theyre going into the Election Month and so, i think even the attempts to counteract it with funny memes are kind of not doing the work they think theyre doing. And do you think these memes can sway political opinion in that regard . Um, yes. I mean, i think that these memes are not so, memes dont function like debate, right . Its not like anybodys going to see one of these images of a cat and then be convinced about something about immigrants that they dont already believe, right . The goal here is to basically prime voters to put immigration on the top of their list of issues theyre going to be voting based upon this year. And Donald Trump makes immigration his kind of Primary Issue and so, he wants to prime voters to think about that issue. And Jd Vance, you know how have people responded to the fact thatJd Vance looked like, this week, he was kind of almost admitting that the story was made up in order to get attention . Yeah, i mean, ithink that that was pretty shocking. For those of you that dont know, here in the united states on sunday mornings, we have political Television Programming that a lot of people tune into and Jd Vance went on, i believe it was meet the press, which is an nbc show, and basically admitted that it was a fake story and said that he would continue to make up fake stories, as long as it helped him politically. I think that this was a pretty big gaffe, actually, and actually made the story more about the lies that Trump And Vance are telling in order to get elected, as opposed to actually about anything that immigrants are doing or any issue relating to immigrants and so, i think they kind of overstepped a little. They thought that they were going to be clever, amplify this issue of immigration and instead, what they did is kind of made the issue about them. That was Jack Brewster of Newsguard And Journalism professor aj bauer. Now to China And Life as a Foreign Correspondent. David rennie has been the Economists Man in beijing for the past six years, but his posting has come to an end. And when he came in to the Media Show, i asked him why he says that life as a Foreign Correspondent in china has become increasingly lonely. The numbers are pretty shocking. You know, i came in 2018. It was actually my second posting i was there in the � 90s as well. If you just look at the number, particularly american journalists, because theres been this long Running Tit for Tat Kind of Visa War between the american government which really started under Donald Trumps administration and the chinese authorities, and the number of, you know if you look at the three biggest papers, the new york times, the wall streetjournal, the washington post, when i arrived this time in 2018, they had 27 Foreign Correspondents between them in china. As you would expect china is the worlds second largest economy. Its an absolutely gigantic, important story. Of course, Big Western News organisations need to be there on the ground. As i leave, those same newspapers dont have 27 correspondents, they have five. And at moments, it was lower than that. The uk media, partly for economic reasons, partly for, you know, people having trouble getting visas to go in the bbc has had an unbelievably Torrid Ride the last few years in china. The Press Corps in beijing, as i left a couple of weeks ago, was basically around the same size as it was when i was there in the 1990s and remember, the chinese economy was something like 15 times smaller back then so its dangerous, i think, and just totally bizarre how fewjournalists are covering this absolutely enormous country. And lets just drill in first to what its like to work as a journalist in china. Youve been covering it, as you say, since the � 90s. Were you prevent what were you prevented from doing as a journalist . How difficult was it to operate . I think theres two real pressures that have become worse. One is, as you say, simply, if you go to xinjiang, from the moment you board the plane in beijing, theres a secret policeman sitting next to you on the plane. When you land in the capital of xinjiang, there are Armed Police who come tromping down the aisle of the plane, take you off, photograph you. We should just make clear for people listening, xinjiang is the far northwest province where the uyghurs live and are being brutalised as we speak, presumably. Yeah, so its run with an absolute Iron Fist because theyre very concerned about Islamic Separatism and the uyghurs in particular. And so, tibet, the other giant separatist region not separatist, the other giant ethnic Minority Region in the west is completely closed to journalists. We cant even go there. You need a special permit to go there. In my ten years in china in all, ive asked for permits, ive never been allowed to go to tibet. So, thats one pressure is physically stopping you doing things. So, you would have people sitting next to you on a plane . Then youre followed by, you know, a dozen people. So, every interview you try and conduct, people are listening in, people are filming it, people are photographing it. So, the effect of that is if you go somewhere like xinjiang, where we know that uyghurs and other minorities will end up in real trouble, if not in a kind of re education camp, for being in the Western Media, essentially, im one of the journalists that would sort of subscribe to the view that you shouldnt interview any uyghur in xinjiang. Its just not responsible. Or any tibetan in tibet. Thats one issue. The other big thing that we have to worry about is the safety of the people we speak to, even in less sensitive, you know villages, farms, businesses. If youre doing a story about Youth Unemployment or pollution or, you know, droughts, Climate Change things that are just the normal business of being a Foreign Correspondent the pressure and the threats and the dangers for people you interview and their sensitivity, that has gone up and up and up. And its not an accident its a deliberate policy. You know, when i was in a village recently, you know, within minutes, the local Party Secretary comes kind of panting up the hill, says that the villagers have all reported me immediately because theyd seen a foreigner in the village, and he was very proud of this. He said, you know, we are trained to look forforeign spies. Were trained to look, to think about national security, so as soon as they see a foreigner, then Theyll Report to the authorities, and no one is going to speak to you. And he was very proud of this. And that, in my kind of, you know, ten years in total, over a quarter century, that has got worse. And that was. And was it always, i mean, was it like that everywhere or were you sometimes freer to go about your business . No, its got a lot worse. And you know, there was a time back in the 1990s where the bestjournalism was being done by really talented chinese investigative reporters some of them working for State And Party controlled newspapers but they had more freedom to report. Not to say the Communist Party was a bad party but to say, you know, theres a Factory Pumping Pollution into a river and giving people cancer. That kind of really important public Service Journalism was possible in the 1990s in a way that is really almost completely impossible now. And presumably, you are still asking questions difficult questions of chinese officials. How were they responding to you . Were they surprised that you were talking to them in a way that, presumably, people, journalists working for the State Owned Media just dont . Its partlyjust a huge Culture Clash because the chinese media have been so controlled and, you know, even to get their annual Press Card renewed now, they have to pass a political kind of Obedience Test and show how well theyve studied xijinping, the thought of the chinese leader. You know, to give you an example, i very rarely went to press conferences with chinese State Journalists but i was on a trip to a poverty alleviation project, where the only way of getting there was on an official trip. The first question from the main chinese State News Agency to these Party Secretaries in a Village Square was, this appears to be a tremendous success. Could you tell us some stories . Goodness. So, you see that, you know, when a western journalist says, well, actually, did they choose to live here . Are they happy about being relocated . Its a Culture Shock to chinese officials. They dont understand why were so aggressive. And is that how youre seen as aggressive . I mean, does he presumably, the president , he wants Chinas Story to get out there, does he . Does that mean that they are combative with you when you speak to people because theyre aggressively kind of pushing the chinese message . Yeah, so an order has been given by the very top leader, Supreme Leader xijinping. He said, you know, i want people to. Speaks mandarin. To tell Chinas Story well, and so, that translates in the real world to the kind of people who call you in for a bollocking a