this programme continues on bbc one. good evening. welcome to our weeknight newsnight extravaganza of interviews and intoxicating insight. here in the studio, a critical friend of the conservative party, the commentator tim montgomery, the former leader of the scottish labour party, kezia dugdale, and the uber—pollster, luke tryl, the uk director of more in common. first, that debate in nottingham, only the second time sunak and starmer have shared a stage in the last five weeks. we'll show some of the most interesting bits, but was this the moment of the debate? interesting bits, but was this mr sunak, i think you made a fair job of being chancellor. but you're a pretty mediocre prime minister. sir keir, i think that that your strings are being pulled by very senior members of the labour party. are you two really the best we've got to be the next prime minister of our great country? applause. there was just that moment, wasn't there kind of a "whoa". your reaction to the debate? you introduced _ reaction to the debate? you introduced me _ reaction to the debate? you introduced me as _ reaction to the debate? you introduced me as a - reaction to the debate? wm. introduced me as a critical friend of the prime minister. the last time i sat here was when he was absent. from the d—day anniversary. i from the d—day anniversary. i probably made the strongest criticism i've made of him but tonight i thought the prime minister was very good. sometimes i wondered if the life has gone out of him in the campaign. but plenty of activists will be thinking, where has he been until now? the hope is that in eight or nine days... eight da s of. that in eight or nine days... eight days of- can _ that in eight or nine days... eight days of- can he — that in eight or nine days... eight days of. can he close _ that in eight or nine days... eight days of. can he close well? - that in eight or nine days... eight days of. can he close well? thatl that in eight or nine days... eight. days of. can he close well? that was a sirited days of. can he close well? that was a spirited performance _ days of. can he close well? that was a spirited performance and - days of. can he close well? that was a spirited performance and starmerl a spirited performance and starmer didn't have many answers to the questions he posed.— didn't have many answers to the questions he posed. kezia, what did ou think? questions he posed. kezia, what did you think? the _ questions he posed. kezia, what did you think? the atmosphere - questions he posed. kezia, what did you think? the atmosphere was - questions he posed. kezia, what did| you think? the atmosphere was very uncomfortable. for you think? the atmosphere was very uncomfortable.— you think? the atmosphere was very uncomfortable. for sure, rishi sunak went into that — uncomfortable. for sure, rishi sunak went into that as _ uncomfortable. for sure, rishi sunak went into that as an _ uncomfortable. for sure, rishi sunak went into that as an insurgent, - uncomfortable. for sure, rishi sunak went into that as an insurgent, with l went into that as an insurgent, with clean _ went into that as an insurgent, with clean lines — went into that as an insurgent, with clean lines he wanted to land, a punchy— clean lines he wanted to land, a punchy performance and keir starmer was acting _ punchy performance and keir starmer was acting like the prime minister with a _ was acting like the prime minister with a rational agenda, he wanted a prospectus— with a rational agenda, he wanted a prospectus for change. he wasn't quite _ prospectus for change. he wasn't quite as— prospectus for change. he wasn't quite as agile and relatable. that's because _ quite as agile and relatable. that's because he has a sense of purpose about _ because he has a sense of purpose about what — because he has a sense of purpose about what he wants to do and he knows _ about what he wants to do and he knows he's — about what he wants to do and he knows he's close to power. also knows he's close to power. also because he _ knows he's close to power. also because he can't _ knows he's close to power. also because he can't react - knows he's close to power. also because he can't react that - knows he's close to power. i"r because he can't react that quickly? there was a certain hesitation. but does he need to be able to do that? they are _ does he need to be able to do that? they are characteristics we want or do we _ they are characteristics we want or do we want — they are characteristics we want or do we want a serious person who is prepared _ do we want a serious person who is prepared to — do we want a serious person who is prepared to leave the country through— prepared to leave the country through a vast period of change? what _ through a vast period of change? what did — through a vast period of change? what did you think, luke? that auestion what did you think, luke? that question who — what did you think, luke? that question who asked _ what did you think, luke? that question who asked a question of the candidates, _ question who asked a question of the candidates, whether— question who asked a question of the candidates, whether that's _ question who asked a question of the candidates, whether that's the - question who asked a question of the candidates, whether that's the best l candidates, whether that's the best we've _ candidates, whether that's the best we've got, — candidates, whether that's the best we've got, he— candidates, whether that's the best we've got, he spoke _ candidates, whether that's the best we've got, he spoke to _ candidates, whether that's the best we've got, he spoke to a _ candidates, whether that's the best we've got, he spoke to a lot- candidates, whether that's the best we've got, he spoke to a lot of- candidates, whether that's the best we've got, he spoke to a lot of thel we've got, he spoke to a lot of the people _ we've got, he spoke to a lot of the people we — we've got, he spoke to a lot of the people we speak— we've got, he spoke to a lot of the people we speak to _ we've got, he spoke to a lot of the people we speak to in— we've got, he spoke to a lot of the people we speak to in focus - we've got, he spoke to a lot of thel people we speak to in focus groups i’ilht people we speak to in focus groups right around — people we speak to in focus groups right around the _ people we speak to in focus groups right around the country, _ people we speak to in focus groups right around the country, their- right around the country, their sense — right around the country, their sense of— right around the country, their sense of cynicism _ right around the country, their sense of cynicism and - right around the country, their sense of cynicism and apathy. right around the country, their. sense of cynicism and apathy that actually _ sense of cynicism and apathy that actually know _ sense of cynicism and apathy that actually know politicians - sense of cynicism and apathy that actually know politicians are - sense of cynicism and apathy that actually know politicians are up i sense of cynicism and apathy thatj actually know politicians are up to the job _ actually know politicians are up to the job it — actually know politicians are up to theiob it is— actually know politicians are up to the job. it is true _ actually know politicians are up to the job. it is true that— actually know politicians are up to the job. it is true that keir- the job. it is true that keir starmer's _ the job. it is true that keir starmer's approvals- the job. it is true that keir starmer's approvals have i the job. it is true that keir- starmer's approvals have gone up during _ starmer's approvals have gone up during the — starmer's approvals have gone up during the campaign— starmer's approvals have gone up during the campaign but- starmer's approvals have gone up during the campaign but it's - starmer's approvals have gone up during the campaign but it's alsol during the campaign but it's also fair to— during the campaign but it's also fair to show— during the campaign but it's also fair to show that _ during the campaign but it's also fair to show that neither- during the campaign but it's also fair to show that neither of- during the campaign but it's also fair to show that neither of them j fair to show that neither of them are locked — fair to show that neither of them are locked by— fair to show that neither of them are locked by the _ fair to show that neither of them are locked by the public. - fair to show that neither of them are locked by the public. lots i fair to show that neither of them are locked by the public. lots of| are locked by the public. lots of people — are locked by the public. lots of people were _ are locked by the public. lots of people were nodding _ are locked by the public. lots of people were nodding at - are locked by the public. lots of people were nodding at home . are locked by the public. lots of. people were nodding at home when are locked by the public. lots of- people were nodding at home when he asked _ people were nodding at home when he asked that _ people were nodding at home when he asked that question _ people were nodding at home when he asked that question —— _ people were nodding at home when he asked that question —— neither- people were nodding at home when he asked that question —— neither of- asked that question —— neither of them _ asked that question —— neither of them are — asked that question —— neither of them are loved _ asked that question —— neither of them are loved by— asked that question —— neither of them are loved by the _ asked that question —— neither of them are loved by the public. - the debate ended just over an hour ago and the spin room is abuzz. later, we'll be speaking to two politicans there — labour's wes streeting and the tories victoria atkins. first, nickjoins us. welcome to the sweltering spin room here at nottingham trent university, a short distance away from what was really a very scrappy debate. it's interesting, what tim, the critical friend, sa because in a sense rishi sunak set the terms of the debate. he would be asked a question and he would pivot to an area where he would pivot to an area where he would say that labour is being untrustworthy. when keir starmer spoke he interrupted him, being a bit of a bulldozer and then we'd have to refrain, the rishi sunak refrain of the evening, don't surrender to labour on tax, don't surrender to labour on tax, don't surrender to labour on tax, don't surrender to labour on immigration. surrender is quite a strong word to use in a political context but this didn't feel to me like some sort of grand one nation message from a conservative prime minister to the nation. this felt like a core vote strategy, trying to convey natural tory voters who don't know, to come out and vote and to persuade people who are currently heading in the direction of nigel farage, to head backin direction of nigel farage, to head back in the direction of the conservative party. i bumped into some of the prime minister's team afterwards and i have to say that they looked rather bullish. keir starmer, you can tell that he basically loathes this kind of encounter. at one point he said to the prime minister, if you listen to people in the audience and across the country, more often, ie, don't interrupt me, you might not be so out of touch. picking up on what kezia said, they thought the prime minister from the kezia said, they thought the prime ministerfrom the prime minister was one of desperation. they would say that the more prime ministerial of the two was keir starmer. what did people think? an immediate poll said 50% keir starmer won a 50% said rishi sunak won. let's have a taste of some of the exchanges. the number of people currently out of work _ the number of people currently out of work on — the number of people currently out of work on ill health and disability benefits— of work on ill health and disability benefits is too high. they don't think— benefits is too high. they don't think you — benefits is too high. they don't think you can save a single penny in the growing — think you can save a single penny in the growing welfare bill. that's what _ the growing welfare bill. that's what the — the growing welfare bill. that's what the numbers show. you would ti . hten what the numbers show. you would tiuhten u- what the numbers show. you would tighten up the _ what the numbers show. you would tighten up the system? _ what the numbers show. you would tighten up the system? high - what the numbers show. you would | tighten up the system? high welfare and tax is what _ tighten up the system? high welfare and tax is what you _ tighten up the system? high welfare and tax is what you get _ tighten up the system? high welfare and tax is what you get with - tighten up the system? high welfare and tax is what you get with keir - and tax is what you get with keir starmer — and tax is what you get with keir starmer. we and tax is what you get with keir starmer. ~ ., ., ., . ,, , starmer. we have to tackle these terrible waiting _ starmer. we have to tackle these terrible waiting lists _ starmer. we have to tackle these terrible waiting lists because - terrible waiting lists because nearly 8 million people are on waiting list. it isn't their fault that they can't get back into work, it is the fault of the government that's put us in this terrible position. that's put us in this terrible position-— that's put us in this terrible osition. ~ ., , ., position. what is wrong, if you believe it _ position. what is wrong, if you believe it is _ position. what is wrong, if you believe it is wrong, _ position. what is wrong, if you believe it is wrong, with - position. what is wrong, if you believe it is wrong, with what l position. what is wrong, if you - believe it is wrong, with what rishi sunak— believe it is wrong, with what rishi sunak is— believe it is wrong, with what rishi sunak is saying. _ believe it is wrong, with what rishi sunak is saying, that— believe it is wrong, with what rishi sunak is saying, that if— believe it is wrong, with what rishi sunak is saying, that if someone . believe it is wrong, with what rishi sunak is saying, that if someone is offered _ sunak is saying, that if someone is offered a _ sunak is saying, that if someone is offered a job — sunak is saying, that if someone is offered a job and _ sunak is saying, that if someone is offered a job and they _ sunak is saying, that if someone is offered a job and they can - sunak is saying, that if someone is offered a job and they can do - sunak is saying, that if someone is offered a job and they can do it - sunak is saying, that if someone is| offered a job and they can do it and they turn— offered a job and they can do it and they turn it — offered a job and they can do it and they turn it down, _ offered a job and they can do it and they turn it down, that's _ offered a job and they can do it and they turn it down, that's wrong? i they turn it down, that's wrong? there's— they turn it down, that's wrong? there's nothing _ they turn it down, that's wrong? there's nothing wrong _ they turn it down, that's wrong? there's nothing wrong with - they turn it down, that's wrong? j there's nothing wrong with that. they turn it down, that's wrong? - there's nothing wrong with that. but ou are there's nothing wrong with that. but you are posted when i announced it. you literaiiy— you are posted when i announced it. you literally opposed it. if you are posted when i announced it. you literally opposed it.— you literally opposed it. if you listen to people _ you literally opposed it. if you listen to people in _ you literally opposed it. if you listen to people in the - you literally opposed it. if you | listen to people in the audience you literally opposed it. if you - listen to people in the audience and across the country more often you may not be quite so out of touch. applause the rwanda plan is a deterrent, you 'ust the rwanda plan is a deterrent, you just have _ the rwanda plan is a deterrent, you just have to— the rwanda plan is a deterrent, you just have to listen to what the illegal— just have to listen to what the illegal migrants themselves are sayinq — illegal migrants themselves are saying. and oftenjust said, most of us are _ saying. and oftenjust said, most of us are in— saying. and oftenjust said, most of us are in france because of the fear we have _ us are in france because of the fear we have about rwanda, and another said i_ we have about rwanda, and another said i won't— we have about rwanda, and another said i won't cross the channel until the plan _ said i won't cross the channel until the plan is — said i won't cross the channel until the plan is destroyed. if labour win they will— the plan is destroyed. if labour win they will need a bigger boat. it would take literally 300 years to get all of the people who are here unlawfully to rwanda. if get all of the people who are here unlawfully to rwanda.— unlawfully to rwanda. if elected, what would _ unlawfully to rwanda. if elected, what would you _ unlawfully to rwanda. if elected, what would you do? _ unlawfully to rwanda. if elected, what would you do? what - unlawfully to rwanda. if elected, what would you do? what would | unlawfully to rwanda. if elected, . what would you do? what would you do? at the moment _ what would you do? what would you do? at the moment they _ what would you do? what would you do? at the moment they aren't - what would you do? what would you | do? at the moment they aren't being rocessed, do? at the moment they aren't being processed. they _ do? at the moment they aren't being processed, they are _ do? at the moment they aren't being processed, they are sitting _ do? at the moment they aren't being processed, they are sitting in - processed, they are sitting in hotels that you are paying for. let's begin with the issue of migration. _ well, joining us from the spin room is health secretary victoria atkins and shadow health secretary wes streeting. thank you both forjoining us. wes streeting, on the question of migration and small boats, that question again from rishi sunak, what is your deterrent? because keir starmer can take whatever he said, 300 years, he said, but actually we don't know from labour what the plan is. . don't know from labour what the plan is. , , ., ., , , is. yes, you do. firstly, we will smash the _ is. yes, you do. firstly, we will smash the criminal _ is. yes, you do. firstly, we will smash the criminal gangs - is. yes, you do. firstly, we willj smash the criminal gangs using is. yes, you do. firstly, we will. smash the criminal gangs using the same tools, techniques, powers that be currently use to tackle terrorist cells. that would be a far more effective way of dealing with the people smugglers who are exploiting people smugglers who are exploiting people and shipping them over the channel than a gimmick which the prime minister has so little confidence in that he called a general election before the first plane had even taken off. even if it works full throttle it will take a fraction of those people who come overin fraction of those people who come over in small boats and they are coming in record numbers under rishi sunak. on net migration overall, the way to reduce our country's reliance on overseas labour is to make sure we invest in the talent of our own people. that's a much more effective plan than the failure under the conservatives.— plan than the failure under the conservatives. one question you could be asked _ conservatives. one question you could be asked is _ conservatives. one question you could be asked is while - conservatives. one question you could be asked is while you - conservatives. one question you could be asked is while you are i could be asked is while you are smashing the criminal gangs, where are you going to process the people coming in and who are here already? and where are they going to stay? fit and where are they going to stay? of course we need faster processing and labour is committed to doing that, kirsty. ultimately, this is the question of the debate, too, do you put your trust in change with labour or no change with the conservatives, who have objectively failed on the issue? whether it is record net migration, record numbers of people coming over in boats, if they had the plan and the purpose, then they would have the delivery. because they can't tell the truth about their record, they are lying about labour's plans. we saw that over and over. . , labour's plans. we saw that over and over. , , . .,, over. interestingly in the closing statement. _ over. interestingly in the closing statement, the _ over. interestingly in the closing statement, the word _ over. interestingly in the closing statement, the word lie was - over. interestingly in the closing l statement, the word lie was used. victoria atkins, what do you say to wes streeting? the person of how quickly you get people to rwanda is a live one. what would you say? just to help him. — a live one. what would you say? just to help him, actually keir starmer was asked — to help him, actually keir starmer was asked more than nine times what his plan— was asked more than nine times what his plan is and he failed to answer. so the _ his plan is and he failed to answer. so the logical conclusion to draw from _ so the logical conclusion to draw from that— so the logical conclusion to draw from that is that there is no plan. this smashing the gangs, we're doing that and _ this smashing the gangs, we're doing that and every time we've brought new powers for the border force and law enforcement and the house of commons — law enforcement and the house of commons to deal with this, when we try to _ commons to deal with this, when we try to deal— commons to deal with this, when we try to deal with rwanda, the labour party— try to deal with rwanda, the labour party have — try to deal with rwanda, the labour party have voted against it. what we saw tonight is that the prime minister— saw tonight is that the prime minister was trying to get answers from keir— minister was trying to get answers from keir starmer who has been very -ood from keir starmer who has been very good at _ from keir starmer who has been very good at not _ from keir starmer who has been very good at not answering questions. he wanted _ good at not answering questions. he wanted him to set out what he believes — wanted him to set out what he believes in because the labour party talk about— believes in because the labour party talk about change, they believe in change _ talk about change, they believe in change all— talk about change, they believe in change all right, they believe in changing — change all right, they believe in changing their principles whenever they think the public want a different answer. but because rishi sunak was on _ different answer. but because rishi sunak was on the _ different answer. but because rishi sunak was on the attack— different answer. but because rishi sunak was on the attack on - sunak was on the attack on migration, what actually... from the labour point of view, how quickly will people go to rwanda because that's the thing we don't know. right now it is a big fat zero. the lanes right now it is a big fat zero. the planes are _ right now it is a big fat zero. the planes are ready to go and we have said within — planes are ready to go and we have said within weeks they will go off and we also heard the prime minister toniqht— and we also heard the prime minister tonight talking about the views of people _ tonight talking about the views of people waiting at calais trying to -et people waiting at calais trying to get across the channel. rwanda is a deterrent _ get across the channel. rwanda is a deterrent and they see a labour government as a passport into the uk, illegally. that's the reality, that's— uk, illegally. that's the reality, that's why— uk, illegally. that's the reality, that's why rwanda is so important. labour— that's why rwanda is so important. labour have — that's why rwanda is so important. labour have consistently voted against — labour have consistently voted against it. labour have consistently voted auainst it. ., ., labour have consistently voted aainst it. ., ., ., labour have consistently voted against it— against it. hang on a minute, victoria- _ against it. hang on a minute, victoria. the _ against it. hang on a minute, victoria. the thing _ against it. hang on a minute, victoria. the thing is, - against it. hang on a minute, victoria. the thing is, we've i against it. hang on a minute, i victoria. the thing is, we've got against it. hang on a minute, - victoria. the thing is, we've got to move another subject. that was one that was interesting, the whole question of a retirement tax. the attack, wes streeting, was that pensioners will pay income tax under labour. tell me, why is it that labour. tell me, why is it that labour could not go over the triple lock which is simply raising personal allowances but only for pensioners? what is so problematic about that? i pensioners? what is so problematic about that? ., ., pensioners? what is so problematic about that?— about that? i would say two things. firstl we about that? i would say two things. firstly we are _ about that? i would say two things. firstly we are committed _ about that? i would say two things. firstly we are committed to - about that? i would say two things. firstly we are committed to the - firstly we are committed to the triple lock. every policy in our manifesto is a policy that is fully costed and funded, a promise we can keep and one that the country can afford. what rishi sunak has been fundamentally dishonest about in the campaign is that when he has made the pledge to the pensioners or any other manifesto pledge, they require tens of billions of pounds of borrowing, more than the liz truss mini budget which sank the economy. pensioners will be paying through the nose, with everybody else, for that failure. we aren't prepared to make promises unless we are sure we can keep them. as for their ambition to abolish national insurance altogether, there is no greater threat to the state pension and pensioners across this country than that kind of recklessness. the question is, do you want to give the matches back to the arsonist to finish the job or matches back to the arsonist to finish thejob or do matches back to the arsonist to finish the job or do you want to change with labour?— finish the job or do you want to change with labour? you've used the hrase change with labour? you've used the phrase repeatedly in _ change with labour? you've used the phrase repeatedly in the _ change with labour? you've used the phrase repeatedly in the campaign i phrase repeatedly in the campaign and i_ phrase repeatedly in the campaign and i think you know that security issues _ and i think you know that security issues we — and i think you know that security issues we face, i think that phrase issues we face, i think that phrase is rarely— issues we face, i think that phrase is rarely unpleasant, there's no need _ is rarely unpleasant, there's no need for— is rarely unpleasant, there's no need for it _ is rarely unpleasant, there's no need for it. if i can talk about the retirement— need for it. if i can talk about the retirement tax, the reason that we have _ retirement tax, the reason that we have said _ retirement tax, the reason that we have said we want to protect pensioners from income tax is precisely— pensioners from income tax is precisely because we have costed it. we have _ precisely because we have costed it. we have managed this year to deliver a £900 _ we have managed this year to deliver a £900 tax _ we have managed this year to deliver a £900 tax cut for people on national— a £900 tax cut for people on national insurance, average workers, while _ national insurance, average workers, while delivering a £900 increase in pensions — while delivering a £900 increase in pensions. we want to secure the future _ pensions. we want to secure the future of— pensions. we want to secure the future of our pensioners. sir keir starmer— future of our pensioners. sir keir starmer was unable to meet our pledqe — starmer was unable to meet our pledge. while we are talking about funded _ pledge. while we are talking about funded pledges, and under funded pledqes, _ funded pledges, and under funded pledges, the mask has slipped because — pledges, the mask has slipped because today we learned that in a private _ because today we learned that in a private meeting a shadow treasury minister— private meeting a shadow treasury minister has said that their net zero _ minister has said that their net zero policies are going to cost hundreds of billions of pounds. that's— hundreds of billions of pounds. that's not in their manifesto. will ou that's not in their manifesto. will you come back — that's not in their manifesto. ll you come back on that? that's not in their manifesto. will. you come back on that? two things, firstly. that's — you come back on that? two things, firstly, that's not true. _ you come back on that? two things, firstly, that's not true. what - firstly, that's not true. what darren jones was firstly, that's not true. what darrenjones was talking about, rachel reeves's deputy in the treasury team, is how much it would cost our economy to move to net zero by 2050. what the conservatives are trying to do is say that that cost is the cost of the labour manifesto for the next parliament. it is untrue and the reason you can trust what we say on green energy as well as everything else is because people have seen in the run—up to this election, labour have made difficult choices, tough choices, sometimes saying things to our side they don't want to hear, so i can say to your viewers that every policy is fully costed and funded.— viewers that every policy is fully costed and funded. here is a plague on both of your _ costed and funded. here is a plague on both of your houses, both - costed and funded. here is a plague on both of your houses, both of you j on both of your houses, both of you are involved in health and you know that poverty is one of the biggest drivers of ill—health. neither labour nor tory are prepared to take the cap off on two child benefit. that is something that would solve part of the poverty problem and yet neither of you is prepared to countenance taking the cap off the two child benefit to allow support for other children. why not? our manifesto contains a commitment to a cross government strategy to reduce child poverty and people can trust us to deliver on that because the last labour government did that. victoria, that is a reasonable thing to do, why are you not doing it either? , , , to do, why are you not doing it either?_ the - to do, why are you not doing it - either?_ the approach either? sorry, kirsty. the approach we are taking _ either? sorry, kirsty. the approach we are taking with _ either? sorry, kirsty. the approach we are taking with families - either? sorry, kirsty. the approach we are taking with families is - either? sorry, kirsty. the approach we are taking with families is to - we are taking with families is to support— we are taking with families is to support people back into work, so one of— support people back into work, so one of the — support people back into work, so one of the policies i am most proud of in the _ one of the policies i am most proud of in the last year, we have been able _ of in the last year, we have been able to— of in the last year, we have been able to deliver and we are delivering re—childcare for families from _ delivering re—childcare for families from the _ delivering re—childcare for families from the age of nine months, i know from _ from the age of nine months, i know from my— from the age of nine months, i know from my own — from the age of nine months, i know from my own constituency the enormous difference this will make for mums _ enormous difference this will make for mums getting back into the workplace in particular but helping families— workplace in particular but helping families as a whole. we know from the work— families as a whole. we know from the work we — families as a whole. we know from the work we have done with reforming the work we have done with reforming the welfare _ the work we have done with reforming the welfare system. and yet... it also _ the welfare system. and yet... it also helps — the welfare system. and yet... it also helps with welfare. and the welfare system. and yet. .. it also helps with welfare.- the welfare system. and yet... it also helps with welfare. and yet all sorts of organisations _ also helps with welfare. and yet all sorts of organisations that - also helps with welfare. and yet all sorts of organisations that deal - sorts of organisations that deal with poverty and particularly with young families where poverty is rife say this would make a difference and neither of the think that is the priority. neither of the think that is the riori . ., ., , ., , priority. for the conservatives as i sa , we priority. for the conservatives as i say. we take _ priority. for the conservatives as i say. we take a _ priority. for the conservatives as i say, we take a different _ priority. for the conservatives as i say, we take a different view - priority. for the conservatives as i say, we take a different view and l priority. for the conservatives as i i say, we take a different view and as the prime _ say, we take a different view and as the prime minister made clear tonight we live it in democracy and people will have different views. we don't try— people will have different views. we don't try to — people will have different views. we don't try to shut down debate as we have seen— don't try to shut down debate as we have seenjust this don't try to shut down debate as we have seen just this week with a labour supporter actor trying to shut down— labour supporter actor trying to shut down a female friend of mine... we think— shut down a female friend of mine... we think there are different ways to achieve _ we think there are different ways to achieve this end which we all want which _ achieve this end which we all want which is _ achieve this end which we all want which is to— achieve this end which we all want which is to tackle child poverty. the labour position seems to me they will visit this when the finances allow but it is about priorities, isn't it, and you could make this decision. ., ., , ., . , decision. there are lots of policies in our manifesto _ decision. there are lots of policies in our manifesto that _ decision. there are lots of policies in our manifesto that make - decision. there are lots of policies in our manifesto that make a - decision. there are lots of policies in our manifesto that make a real| in our manifesto that make a real difference on child poverty reduction, not least our policy of free breakfast clubs in every premier school so kids started out with hungry minds, not hungry bellies. it is a bit rich of victoria to talk about the importance of debate in an election, at least she showed up i was a seaman, i was going to take a missing persons ad out on this campaign because the conservatives don't have a leg to stand on the nhs, you ducked the newsnight debate we could have had... idol nhs, you ducked the newsnight debate we could have had...— we could have had... not everyone is as much of— we could have had... not everyone is as much of a — we could have had... not everyone is as much of a self _ we could have had... not everyone is as much of a self publicist _ we could have had... not everyone is as much of a self publicist as - we could have had... not everyone is as much of a self publicist as you - as much of a self publicist as you are _ as much of a self publicist as you are l _ as much of a self publicist as you are. . . ~' as much of a self publicist as you are. ., ., ~ ., ,., as much of a self publicist as you are. ., ., ~' ., ,., ,., .., are. i am talking about your record. i was at an — are. i am talking about your record. i was at an event _ are. i am talking about your record. i was at an event in _ are. i am talking about your record. i was at an event in my _ i was at an event in my constituency. i offered different states — constituency. i offered different states. don't accuse me of going i will. states. don't accuse me of going i will l— states. don't accuse me of going i will. ~' states. don't accuse me of going i will. ~ ., i. states. don't accuse me of going i will. ~ ., , will. i liked about you but you haven't shown _ will. i liked about you but you haven't shown up. _ will. i liked about you but you haven't shown up. you - will. i liked about you but you haven't shown up. you are i will. i liked about you but you l haven't shown up. you are both will. i liked about you but you - haven't shown up. you are both here toaether haven't shown up. you are both here together now- _ haven't shown up. you are both here together now. wes _ haven't shown up. you are both here together now. wes is _ haven't shown up. you are both here together now. wes is more - haven't shown up. you are both here i together now. wes is more interested in my television _ together now. wes is more interested in my television appearances - together now. wes is more interested in my television appearances on - in my television appearances on policy— in my television appearances on policy because labour is terrified that we — policy because labour is terrified that we have seen they don't have a plan and _ that we have seen they don't have a plan and they aren't being straight with the _ plan and they aren't being straight with the british public about the plans— with the british public about the plans for— with the british public about the plans for the country. this is why this debate — plans for the country. this is why this debate was so important and why it is so— this debate was so important and why it is so important we continue to scrutinise — it is so important we continue to scrutinise labour politicians about their ideas— scrutinise labour politicians about their ideas because we know they are not funded _ their ideas because we know they are not funded and we also know they are hiding _ not funded and we also know they are hiding things from us. | not funded and we also know they are hiding things from us.— hiding things from us. i don't know if ou hiding things from us. i don't know if you heard... _ hiding things from us. i don't know if you heard... luke _ hiding things from us. i don't know if you heard... luke in _ hiding things from us. i don't know if you heard... luke in the - hiding things from us. i don't know if you heard... luke in the studio l if you heard... luke in the studio earlier because what he was saying in response to what a gentleman said was that both of you, rishi sunak and keir starmer, are inadequate essentially. what luke was saying here and does he know he is a pollster, was he is hearing this very often on the doorstep so what do you make of that, that the audience isn't particularly entranced with either leader? firstly i think we have got a much better choice at this general election than we had at the last general election and i am proud of the way? has changed the labour party. trust in politics and politicians is rock bottom, and that is reflected in some of the cynicism but there is a chance for change at this general election if people vote for it and to be fair to keir starmer and rishi sunak who out thought both put their best foot forward this evening, the choice was spelt out very clearly, you can vote for change with labour were booked for change with labour were booked for no change with the conservatives, that is the choice on july conservatives, that is the choice on july the lith and you will get change only if you vote for it. in july the 4th and you will get change only if you vote for it.— only if you vote for it. in the debate tonight _ only if you vote for it. in the debate tonight i _ only if you vote for it. in the debate tonight i thought - only if you vote for it. in the debate tonight i thought it i only if you vote for it. in the i debate tonight i thought it was only if you vote for it. in the - debate tonight i thought it was very helpful— debate tonight i thought it was very helpful to _ debate tonight i thought it was very helpful to the audience i hope both at home _ helpful to the audience i hope both at home and in the studio as to the different— at home and in the studio as to the different approaches that both parties — different approaches that both parties have. i would say, i work closely _ parties have. i would say, i work closely as— parties have. i would say, i work closely as you would expect with the prime _ closely as you would expect with the prime minister, we saw tonight his intellect, _ prime minister, we saw tonight his intellect, his character and determination. we saw his steeliness and we _ determination. we saw his steeliness and we also _ determination. we saw his steeliness and we also saw that when people put things— and we also saw that when people put things to _ and we also saw that when people put things to him that is simply not correct, — things to him that is simply not correct, including sir keir starmer trying _ correct, including sir keir starmer trying to— correct, including sir keir starmer trying to claim he could change trade _ trying to claim he could change trade deals with the eu without freedom — trade deals with the eu without freedom of movement, we know michel barnier— freedom of movement, we know michel barnier has _ freedom of movement, we know michel barnier has said exactly that is 'ust barnier has said exactly that is just this — barnier has said exactly that is just this week, the eu will not reach — just this week, the eu will not reach out _ just this week, the eu will not reach out back on the table. he always— reach out back on the table. he always puts the country's interests first _ always puts the country's interests first that — always puts the country's interests first. that is what the conservative manifesto — first. that is what the conservative manifesto contains. it is much more detailed _ manifesto contains. it is much more detailed their eyesight than the liver manifesto. i have prioritised women's — liver manifesto. i have prioritised women's health but a whole section on that— women's health but a whole section on that merits a mere two sentences in the _ on that merits a mere two sentences in the labour manifesto... | on that merits a mere two sentences in the labour manifesto. . ._ in the labour manifesto... i think ou need in the labour manifesto... i think you need to _ in the labour manifesto... i think you need to go — in the labour manifesto... i think you need to go and _ in the labour manifesto... i think you need to go and have - in the labour manifesto... i think you need to go and have a - in the labour manifesto... i think you need to go and have a drink i you need to go and have a drink together now. thank you. kezia, what did you make of that particularly on theissue did you make of that particularly on the issue of migration first of all? she could be glad there is only eight days to go after that particular encounter. there is no doubt it was the most awkward bid for keir starmer. it isn't because the policy is wrong or it isn't competitive in a further enough, in fact perhaps that is the issue, we can't digest it down into a gimmick. they hadn't gamed the idea and what i have to talk about are things like what we do in the interim, smash the gangs, where are you going to process all the migrants, it is a fairly basic... process all the migrants, it is a fairly basic. . ._ process all the migrants, it is a fairly basic... that is fair but we are talking _ fairly basic... that is fair but we are talking about _ fairly basic... that is fair but we are talking about a _ fairly basic... that is fair but we are talking about a tactic - fairly basic... that is fair but we are talking about a tactic in - fairly basic... that is fair but we are talking about a tactic in a i fairly basic... that is fair but we j are talking about a tactic in a tv debate, that is different from the core issues keir starmer wants to talk about in a general election campaign for these have different purposes tonight. keir starmerjust had to survive. it was the last bit of a highly polished floor. a different chopper rishi sunak. he has every last vote around the country to try and bring it back. will that pull something back from a four? brute will that pull something back from a four? ~ ., ., ., , will that pull something back from a four? . ., ., ., , , four? we are already seeing in the oinion four? we are already seeing in the opinion polls. _ four? we are already seeing in the opinion polls. up _ four? we are already seeing in the opinion polls, up until— four? we are already seeing in the opinion polls, up untilthe - four? we are already seeing in the| opinion polls, up untilthe weekend opinion polls, up until the weekend when _ opinion polls, up until the weekend when nigel farage made the remarks about— when nigel farage made the remarks about ukraine, he was seeing reform drift upwards in the polls. we are now seeing them drift downwards. what _ now seeing them drift downwards. what i _ now seeing them drift downwards. what i am — now seeing them drift downwards. what i am getting on the doorsteps, my own _ what i am getting on the doorsteps, my own experience in front of conservative candidates is the betting — conservative candidates is the betting thing has hit the conservative vote but on the other side people are beginning to think this supermajority thing is now cutting — this supermajority thing is now cutting three. people are saying five years — cutting three. people are saying five years of keir starmer, without any real— five years of keir starmer, without any real parliamentary opposition, that is— any real parliamentary opposition, that is beginning to say, who can weave _ that is beginning to say, who can weave outfought to at least ensure there _ weave outfought to at least ensure there is _ weave outfought to at least ensure there is a _ weave outfought to at least ensure there is a of serious scrutiny of a labour— there is a of serious scrutiny of a labour government? i think tonight really— labour government? i think tonight really helped the conservatives on that because all the issues voters are concerned about, tax, immigration, the pensions question, those _ immigration, the pensions question, those are _ immigration, the pensions question, those are being talked about by the conservative vote. the election is won by— conservative vote. the election is won by labour but what the tories have _ won by labour but what the tories have to _ won by labour but what the tories have to do — won by labour but what the tories have to do in the next eight days is -et have to do in the next eight days is get out _ have to do in the next eight days is get out the — have to do in the next eight days is get out the core tory vote and that is what _ get out the core tory vote and that is what tonight was about. when get out the core tory vote and that is what tonight was about. when you talk about £2000 _ is what tonight was about. when you talk about £2000 more _ is what tonight was about. when you talk about £2000 more tax - is what tonight was about. when you talk about £2000 more tax under. is what tonight was about. when you talk about £2000 more tax under a i talk about £2000 more tax under a labour government, i suppose what we can say now is because the fact checking is so fast we know that it's a very bold way of putting it and not actually true.— it's a very bold way of putting it and not actually true. what we do know is every _ and not actually true. what we do know is every labour— and not actually true. what we do know is every labour government j and not actually true. what we do i know is every labour government in history— know is every labour government in history has— know is every labour government in history has raised taxes. the bigger problem _ history has raised taxes. the bigger problem i_ history has raised taxes. the bigger problem i think with what the labour strategy— problem i think with what the labour strategy is, — problem i think with what the labour strategy is, they will win the election— strategy is, they will win the election but this country is in trouble _ election but this country is in trouble. most conservatives and most labour _ trouble. most conservatives and most labour people would say that. we need _ labour people would say that. we need some really bold reforms, whether— need some really bold reforms, whether housing or the nhs. keir starmer— whether housing or the nhs. keir starmer has not got a mandate for that and _ starmer has not got a mandate for that and he — starmer has not got a mandate for that and he will look back at these debates— that and he will look back at these debates and regrets that he never really _ debates and regrets that he never really levelled with the british people — really levelled with the british people or told them the truth about how they— people or told them the truth about how they will solve this because this is— how they will solve this because this is a — how they will solve this because this is a really thin manifesto from labour~ _ this is a really thin manifesto from labour. unimaginative and uninspiring which is why people have these _ uninspiring which is why people have these questions, there must be a secret— these questions, there must be a secret agenda. we these questions, there must be a secret agenda.— these questions, there must be a secret agenda. we ask luke about this. it is interesting, _ secret agenda. we ask luke about this. it is interesting, you're i this. it is interesting, you're saying the whole question about ukraine, the reform vote is softening and actually now in a way it has kick—started some kind of momentum for the tories at least to claw back a bit. it is momentum for the tories at least to claw back a bit-— claw back a bit. it is definitely true that in _ claw back a bit. it is definitely true that in the _ claw back a bit. it is definitely true that in the polls - claw back a bit. it is definitely true that in the polls we i claw back a bit. it is definitely true that in the polls we have | claw back a bit. it is definitely i true that in the polls we have seen this week— true that in the polls we have seen this week reform _ true that in the polls we have seen this week reform is _ true that in the polls we have seen this week reform is a _ true that in the polls we have seen this week reform is a distilling i this week reform is a distilling or slipping _ this week reform is a distilling or slipping backwards— this week reform is a distilling or slipping backwards and _ this week reform is a distilling or slipping backwards and i- this week reform is a distilling or slipping backwards and i am i this week reform is a distilling or. slipping backwards and i am always this week reform is a distilling 0r- slipping backwards and i am always a little bit _ slipping backwards and i am always a little bit nervous _ slipping backwards and i am always a little bit nervous about _ slipping backwards and i am always a little bit nervous about attributing i little bit nervous about attributing it to one _ little bit nervous about attributing it to one thing _ little bit nervous about attributing it to one thing or— little bit nervous about attributing it to one thing or the _ little bit nervous about attributing it to one thing or the other- little bit nervous about attributing it to one thing or the other but. little bit nervous about attributingi it to one thing or the other but one thing _ it to one thing or the other but one thing we _ it to one thing or the other but one thing we do — it to one thing or the other but one thing we do know— it to one thing or the other but one thing we do know is— it to one thing or the other but one thing we do know is nigel- it to one thing or the other but one thing we do know is nigel farage i it to one thing or the other but one i thing we do know is nigel farage has put himself— thing we do know is nigel farage has put himself on — thing we do know is nigel farage has put himself on the _ thing we do know is nigel farage has put himself on the wrong _ thing we do know is nigel farage has put himself on the wrong side - thing we do know is nigel farage has put himself on the wrong side of- put himself on the wrong side of public— put himself on the wrong side of public opinion— put himself on the wrong side of public opinion on _ put himself on the wrong side of public opinion on ukraine. - put himself on the wrong side of public opinion on ukraine. we i put himself on the wrong side of. public opinion on ukraine. we had some _ public opinion on ukraine. we had some pulling _ public opinion on ukraine. we had some pulling out _ public opinion on ukraine. we had some pulling out which _ public opinion on ukraine. we had some pulling out which asked i public opinion on ukraine. we hadj some pulling out which asked how important — some pulling out which asked how important is — some pulling out which asked how important is it— some pulling out which asked how important is it for— some pulling out which asked how important is it for the _ some pulling out which asked how important is it for the uk- some pulling out which asked how important is it for the uk that i important is it for the uk that ukraine — important is it for the uk that ukraine wins— important is it for the uk that ukraine wins and _ important is it for the uk that ukraine wins and by- important is it for the uk that ukraine wins and by a - important is it for the uk that ukraine wins and by a 7—1 i important is it for the uk that i ukraine wins and by a 7—1 margin people _ ukraine wins and by a 7—1 margin people were _ ukraine wins and by a 7—1 margin people were more _ ukraine wins and by a 7—1 margin people were more likely- ukraine wins and by a 7—1 margin people were more likely to - ukraine wins and by a 7—1 margin people were more likely to say i ukraine wins and by a 7—1 margin people were more likely to say itj ukraine wins and by a 7—1margini people were more likely to say it is important — people were more likely to say it is important than _ people were more likely to say it is important than unimportant. - people were more likely to say it is important than unimportant. i- people were more likely to say it is| important than unimportant. i think that is— important than unimportant. i think that is where — important than unimportant. i think that is where nigel— important than unimportant. i think that is where nigel farage... - important than unimportant. i think that is where nigel farage... he i important than unimportant. i think that is where nigel farage... he isi that is where nigel farage... he is normally— that is where nigel farage... he is normally qood _ that is where nigel farage... he is normally good about _ that is where nigel farage... he is normally good about putting - that is where nigel farage... he is. normally good about putting himself on the _ normally good about putting himself on the right— normally good about putting himself on the right side _ normally good about putting himself on the right side a _ normally good about putting himself on the right side a popular— normally good about putting himself on the right side a popular patient. on the right side a popular patient but on _ on the right side a popular patient but on this— on the right side a popular patient but on this he _ on the right side a popular patient but on this he has— on the right side a popular patient but on this he has made _ on the right side a popular patient but on this he has made a - on the right side a popular patient. but on this he has made a mistake. even _ but on this he has made a mistake. even in salisbury, _ but on this he has made a mistake. even in salisbury, my— but on this he has made a mistake. even in salisbury, my home - but on this he has made a mistake. even in salisbury, my home state, i even in salisbury, my home state, which is associated with novichok, the reform candidate said he admired putin, talk about and error of judgment. putin, talk about and error of judgment-— putin, talk about and error of 'udument. �*, ., ,, ., , ., judgment. let's talk a bit about some polls- _ judgment. let's talk a bit about some polls. you _ judgment. let's talk a bit about some polls. you have _ judgment. let's talk a bit about some polls. you have me i judgment. let's talk a bit about some polls. you have me doing judgment. let's talk a bit about i some polls. you have me doing some work on what ministers and what people are likely to lose their seats and packing their bags, what is the minutes the latest. brute seats and packing their bags, what is the minutes the latest.- is the minutes the latest. we took every ill election _ is the minutes the latest. we took every ill election about _ is the minutes the latest. we took every ill election about will- is the minutes the latest. we took every ill election about will there i every ill election about will there be a portillo— every ill election about will there be a portillo moment, _ every ill election about will there be a portillo moment, when i every ill election about will there be a portillo moment, when a i every ill election about will there i be a portillo moment, when a cabinet minister— be a portillo moment, when a cabinet minister we _ be a portillo moment, when a cabinet minister we don't— be a portillo moment, when a cabinet minister we don't expect _ be a portillo moment, when a cabinet minister we don't expect to _ be a portillo moment, when a cabinet minister we don't expect to lose i minister we don't expect to lose their— minister we don't expect to lose their seats — minister we don't expect to lose their seats suddenly— minister we don't expect to lose their seats suddenly does. - minister we don't expect to lose their seats suddenly does. in i minister we don't expect to lose i their seats suddenly does. in this election— their seats suddenly does. in this election there _ their seats suddenly does. in this election there are _ their seats suddenly does. in this election there are lots _ their seats suddenly does. in this election there are lots of- their seats suddenly does. in this election there are lots of cabinetl election there are lots of cabinet ministers — election there are lots of cabinet ministers who— election there are lots of cabinet ministers who are _ election there are lots of cabinet ministers who are at _ election there are lots of cabinet ministers who are at risk. - election there are lots of cabinet ministers who are at risk. penny| ministers who are at risk. penny mordaunt— ministers who are at risk. penny mordaunt potentially— ministers who are at risk. penny mordaunt potentially a - ministers who are at risk. penny mordaunt potentially a future i ministers who are at risk. penny. mordaunt potentially a future tory leadership— mordaunt potentially a future tory leadership contender— mordaunt potentially a future tory leadership contender is _ mordaunt potentially a future tory leadership contender is under- mordaunt potentially a future tory leadership contender is under real pressure _ leadership contender is under real pressure in — leadership contender is under real pressure in portsmouth. - leadership contender is under real pressure in portsmouth. grant i leadership contender is under real- pressure in portsmouth. grant shapps is fighting _ pressure in portsmouth. grant shapps is fighting a _ pressure in portsmouth. grant shapps is fighting a strong _ pressure in portsmouth. grant shapps is fighting a strong challenge - pressure in portsmouth. grant shapps is fighting a strong challenge from i is fighting a strong challenge from labour~ _ is fighting a strong challenge from labour~ if— is fighting a strong challenge from labour. if these _ is fighting a strong challenge from labour. if these mrp _ is fighting a strong challenge from labour. if these mrp predictions i is fighting a strong challenge from i labour. if these mrp predictions are i’ilht labour. if these mrp predictions are right he _ labour. if these mrp predictions are right he is— labour. if these mrp predictions are right he is in— labour. if these mrp predictions are right he is in big _ labour. if these mrp predictions are right he is in big trouble. _ labour. if these mrp predictions are right he is in big trouble. alex- right he is in big trouble. alex chalk— right he is in big trouble. alex chalk the lord _ right he is in big trouble. alex chalk the lord chancellor- right he is in big trouble. alex chalk the lord chancellor at i right he is in big trouble. alexi chalk the lord chancellor at risk from _ chalk the lord chancellor at risk from the — chalk the lord chancellor at risk from the liberal— chalk the lord chancellor at risk from the liberal democrats. i chalk the lord chancellor at risk| from the liberal democrats. and jeremy— from the liberal democrats. and jeremy hunt— from the liberal democrats. and jeremy hunt the _ from the liberal democrats. and jeremy hunt the chancellor- from the liberal democrats. and jeremy hunt the chancellor has i from the liberal democrats. and i jeremy hunt the chancellor has been spending _ jeremy hunt the chancellor has been spending a _ jeremy hunt the chancellor has been spending a lot— jeremy hunt the chancellor has been spending a lot of— jeremy hunt the chancellor has been spending a lot of time _ jeremy hunt the chancellor has been spending a lot of time in— jeremy hunt the chancellor has been spending a lot of time in his - spending a lot of time in his constituency— spending a lot of time in his constituency in _ spending a lot of time in his constituency in surrey - spending a lot of time in his constituency in surrey and l spending a lot of time in his i constituency in surrey and that is because — constituency in surrey and that is because it — constituency in surrey and that is because it is _ constituency in surrey and that is because it is so _ constituency in surrey and that is because it is so at _ constituency in surrey and that is because it is so at risk. _ constituency in surrey and that is because it is so at risk. you i constituency in surrey and that is because it is so at risk. you alsoi because it is so at risk. you also see their— because it is so at risk. you also see their mark— because it is so at risk. you also see their mark harper— because it is so at risk. you also see their mark harper and - because it is so at risk. you also| see their mark harper and gillian keeqan _ see their mark harper and gillian keeqan the — see their mark harper and gillian keegan the education _ see their mark harper and gillian keegan the education secretary, | keegan the education secretary, chichester, _ keegan the education secretary, chichester, that— keegan the education secretary, chichester, that should - keegan the education secretary, chichester, that should be - keegan the education secretary, chichester, that should be a i keegan the education secretary, | chichester, that should be a safe conservative _ chichester, that should be a safe conservative seat _ chichester, that should be a safe conservative seat but _ chichester, that should be a safe conservative seat but there i chichester, that should be a safe conservative seat but there is. chichester, that should be a safe conservative seat but there is a i conservative seat but there is a liberal — conservative seat but there is a liberal democrat _ conservative seat but there is a liberal democrat challenge i conservative seat but there is a liberal democrat challenge to i conservative seat but there is a i liberal democrat challenge to her now _ liberal democrat challenge to her now lit _ liberal democrat challenge to her now. . . liberal democrat challenge to her now. , , , , , now. it is interesting because this idea of a defensive _ now. it is interesting because this idea of a defensive tory _ now. it is interesting because this idea of a defensive tory strategy i idea of a defensive tory strategy which is to shore up these people and i am afraid some of the others will have to go hang. the and i am afraid some of the others will have to go hang.— will have to go hang. the thing is --eole will have to go hang. the thing is people are _ will have to go hang. the thing is people are saying _ will have to go hang. the thing is people are saying seats - will have to go hang. the thing is people are saying seats under i will have to go hang. the thing is i people are saying seats under 10,000 majority have been abandoned by the conservatives, that is true, and they are defending seats with 20,000 are more assuming conservative central office knows what it is doing. i think a lot of seats in between probably won't go if the tory strategy over the next ten days will work. the tory strategy over the next ten days will work. ~ ., , ., ., , will work. the mrp that is out has labour on 265 _ will work. the mrp that is out has labour on 265 at _ will work. the mrp that is out has labour on 265 at the _ will work. the mrp that is out has i labour on 265 at the conservatives, 465 labour on 265 at the conservatives, a65 sorry but you have some last—minute bowling tonight. 465 sorry but you have some last-minute bowling tonight. about toniaht? last-minute bowling tonight. about tonight? debate. _ last-minute bowling tonight. about tonight? debate. we _ last-minute bowling tonight. about tonight? debate. we asked - last—minute bowling tonight. about tonight? debate. we asked who do you think won _ tonight? debate. we asked who do you think won tonight's _ tonight? debate. we asked who do you think won tonight's debate _ tonight? debate. we asked who do you think won tonight's debate and - tonight? debate. we asked who do you think won tonight's debate and it - think won tonight's debate and it was 44%— think won tonight's debate and it was 44% rishi _ think won tonight's debate and it was aa% rishi sunak, _ think won tonight's debate and it was aa% rishi sunak, 56%?. - think won tonight's debate and itj was aa% rishi sunak, 56%?. but think won tonight's debate and it - was aa% rishi sunak, 56%?. but some encouragement — was aa% rishi sunak, 56%?. but some encouragement for— was aa% rishi sunak, 56%?. but some encouragement for rishi _ was aa% rishi sunak, 56%?. but some encouragement for rishi sunak, - was aa% rishi sunak, 56%?. but some encouragement for rishi sunak, we i encouragement for rishi sunak, we also asked. — encouragement for rishi sunak, we also asked. did _ encouragement for rishi sunak, we also asked, did people _ encouragement for rishi sunak, we also asked, did people perform i also asked, did people perform better— also asked, did people perform better about _ also asked, did people perform better about the _ also asked, did people perform better about the same - also asked, did people perform better about the same or- also asked, did people perform| better about the same or worse also asked, did people perform i better about the same or worse than you expected — better about the same or worse than you expected and _ better about the same or worse than you expected and people _ better about the same or worse than you expected and people were - you expected and people were slightly— you expected and people were slightly more _ you expected and people were slightly more likely _ you expected and people were slightly more likely to - you expected and people were slightly more likely to cite - you expected and people were i slightly more likely to cite rishi sunak— slightly more likely to cite rishi sunak performed _ slightly more likely to cite rishi - sunak performed better—than—expected than they— sunak performed better—than—expected than they were — sunak performed better—than—expected than they were about _ sunak performed better—than—expected than they were about care star. - sunak performed better—than—expected than they were about care star. i - than they were about care star. i think— than they were about care star. i think despite _ than they were about care star. i think despite keir— than they were about care star. i think despite keir starmer- than they were about care star. i think despite keir starmer has i than they were about care star. i think despite keir starmer has a| than they were about care star. i. think despite keir starmer has a win there _ think despite keir starmer has a win there people — think despite keir starmer has a win there people think— think despite keir starmer has a win there people think rishi _ think despite keir starmer has a win there people think rishi sunak- there people think rishi sunak exceeded _ there people think rishi sunak exceeded expectations. - there people think rishi sunak exceeded expectations. it is exceeded expectations. kezia? it is too late, exceeded expectations. kezia? it is too late. he — exceeded expectations. kezia? it is too late, he needed _ exceeded expectations. kezia? it is too late, he needed that _ exceeded expectations. kezia? it is too late, he needed that four- exceeded expectations. kezia? it is too late, he needed that four or - too late, he needed that four or five-year— too late, he needed that four or five—year weeks ago or a year ago. the rishi _ five—year weeks ago or a year ago. the rishi sunak tonight if he had been _ the rishi sunak tonight if he had been presented to the country a year a-o been presented to the country a year ago this— been presented to the country a year ago this could have been a close election — ago this could have been a close election it— ago this could have been a close election. ,., ago this could have been a close election. , ., , election. it might save some seats. it's a election. it might save some seats. it's a quick — election. it might save some seats. it's a quick look— election. it might save some seats. it's a quick look at _ election. it might save some seats. it's a quick look at the _ election. it might save some seats. it's a quick look at the papers - election. it might save some seats. it's a quick look at the papers and l beginning with daily mail. pretty soon actors make furious last summer, taking people for. the times, ram some text message in final debate. and party member arrested over the honey trap scandal, you might remember. moving on to the times, they don't have the debate and that they have french far right leader vows to fight a cultural battle against islamism. moving on to the independent, starmer squares up to striking doctors, thejunior starmer squares up to striking doctors, the junior doctors, starmer squares up to striking doctors, thejunior doctors, iwon't give 35% rise. the daily record, pm blasted on bets row. starmer brands scenic out of touch during the leaders debate. the i revealed russian hackers behind nhs attack are part of a cyber army for tempted by the kremlin. that is it from a jam—packed show tonight. i am back tomorrow. from all of us here, sleep well, good night. live from london, this is bbc news. sir keir starmer and rishi sunak clash over over borders, tax and the betting scandal in the final debate of the election campaign. like on every other issue, you say one thing, you do another. you just don't know which keir starmer you're going to get. you can't trust him on this issue.

Related Keywords

Country , Things , Indication , Result , Declarations , Race , Taster Addiction , Pan Out , Politicians , Voters , Sorts , Idea , Results , Operation , Event , Counts , Calendar , Parliament , Bbc , Everywhere , British Isles , After , Five , Rishi Sunak , People , Us , Leaders , Analysis , Constituencies , Fantestic Constituencies , Bottom , Dramatic Bottom , Night , Panel , Bbc One , Programme , One , Interviews , Weeknight , Insight , Newsnight Extravaganza , Tim Montgomery , Kezia Dugdale , Friend , Leader , Studio , Scottish Labour Party , Conservative Party , Debate , Starmer , Uk , Bits , Sunak , More , Uber Pollster , Director , Stage , First , Common , Nottingham , Luke Tryl , Prime Minister , The Job , Chancellor , Members , Strings , Best , Applause , Two , Wasn T , Whoa , Reaction , Criticism , D Day , Wm , Campaign , Thinking , Hope , Activists , Life , Nine , Eight , Questions , Days Of , Posed Didn T , Answers , Starmer Didn T , The , Da S Of , Thatl , Sirited , Atmosphere , Insurgent , Lines , Sure , Sense , He Wasn T , Power , Purpose , Agenda , Prospectus For Change , React , Question , Change , Person , Luke , Characteristics , Hesitation , Auestion , Cynicism , Candidates , Lot , He Candidates , Apathy , Groups , Whether Question , Lot Candidates , Thel , Their , Apathy Thatj , Approvals , Home , Lots , Neither , Nodding , Job , The Public , Them , Fair , The Starmer , Campaign Starmer , Show , At Home , Alsol , Wes Streeting , There Labour , Spin Room , Victoria Atkins , Politicans , Nickjoins Us , Distance , Nottingham Trent University , I Ilht Labour , Bit , Area , Terms , Bulldozer , Rishi Sunak Refrain , Word , Evening , Surrender , Context , Didn T , Don T Surrender To Labour On Tax , Sort , Don T Surrender To Labour On Immigration , Vote , Core Vote Strategy , Nation , Don T Know , Message , Felt , Grand One Nation , Some , Team , Backin Direction , Nigel Farage , Audience , Kind , Encounter , Point , Touch , Ie , They Don T , Ministerfrom , Ministerial , Poll , Desperation , Work , Number , Benefits , Health , Penny , Disability Benefits , Rishi Sunak Won , Taste , Exchanges , 50 , Tax , Welfare , Welfare The System , Welfare Bill , Numbers , Growing Welfare Bill , Growing , Ti , Hten , Position , Government , Waiting Lists , Fault , It Isn T , Waiting List , Waiting Starmer , 8 Million , Isn T It , Saying , Someone , Nothing , You Literaiiy , What Rishi Sunak , Job Sunak , Deterrent , Migrants , Rwanda Plan , It , Most , Sayinq , Oftenjust , You , Dust , Plan , Rwanda , Channel , Another , Fear , I , Boat , France , All Of Us , Elected , Aren T , Hotels , Aren T Being Rocessed , 300 , Issue , Immigration , Boats , Forjoining , Gangs , Yes , Tools , Criminal , Techniques , Terrorist Cells , Way , Gimmick , Smugglers , General Election , People Smugglers , Dealing , Confidence , Fraction , Plane , Record Numbers , Throttle , Overin , Net Migration Overall , Failure , Overseas , Talent , Reliance , Conservatives , Kirsty , Course , Processing , Net Migration , Trust , Plans , Record , Truth , Delivery , Closing Statement , Dover , Lie , Statement , Closing L , The Word , Times , Conclusion , Him , Commons , Law Enforcement , Powers , Border , Force , House Of Commons , Minister , Principles , Public , Answer , Attack , On Sunak , Point Of View , Thing , Planes , Big Fat Zero , Zero , Labour Government , Views , Toniqht , Passport , People Waiting At Calais , Calais , Victoria , Reality , Labour Have , Uk , That S , Subject , Auainst , Pensioners , Retirement Tax , Income Tax , Triple Lock , Policy , Allowances , Firstl , Go In The Labour Manifesto , Pledge , Manifesto Pledge , Promise , Billions , Economy , Liz Truss Mini , Borrowing , Nose , Everybody Else , Tens , Insurance , State Pension , Threat , Recklessness , Ambition , Promises , Phrase , Arsonist , Matches , Security , Security Issues , Hrase , Need , Retirement Need , Pensions , Workers , Tax Cut , 00 , 900 , Pledges , Mask , Pledqe Starmer , Sir , Pledqes , Policies , Have In The Labour Manifesto , You Will , Shadow Treasury Minister , Will Ou , Meeting , , Firstly , Cost Hundreds , Hundreds , Private , Deputy , What Darrenjones , Darren Jones , Rachel Reeves , Cost , Reason , 2050 , Election , Everything , Run Up , Energy , Side , Viewers , Choices , Funded , Both , Plague , Something , Poverty , Houses , Cap , Part , Story , Child Benefit , Ill Health , Costed , Poverty Problem , Drivers , Strategy , Commitment , Child , Children , Support , Cross , Child Poverty , Families , Approach , Either , Constituency , Age , Workplace , Whole , Difference , Mums , Re Childcare , Delivering Re Childcare , Welfare System , Deal , Organisations , Work Families , Think , Priority , Riori , View , Factor , Supporter , Say , Democracy , We Priority , Want , Labour Position , Ways , Finances , Priorities , Decision , A Decision , Minds , Breakfast Clubs , School , Child Poverty Reduction , Kids , Importance , Persons , Sad , Bellies , Seaman , Leg , Everyone , Self Publicist , Idol Nhs , Self , Mare , Had , Toaether Haven T , States , Haven T , You Haven T , Television Appearances , We Policy , Television , Wes Haven T , Hiding , Ideas , Labour Politicians , Debate Plans , Ou Hiding , Gentleman , Response , Pollster , Isn T , Doorstep , Choice , Chance , Politics , Rock Bottom , Better , Foot , Rishi Sunak Who , Lith , July The 4th , 4 , Parties , Steeliness , Determination , Approaches , Intellect , Prime , Character , Ust Barnier Has , Freedom Trade , Deals , Trade Deals , Michel Barnier , Eu , Freedom Of Movement , Michel Barnier Freedom Of Movement , Interests , Table , Manifesto , Manifesto First , Liver , Women , Eyesight , Sentences , Section , Drink , Women S Health , A In The Labour Manifesto , Doubt , Theissue , Bid , They Hadn T Gamed The Idea , Interim , Fact , Enough , Ai , Tactic , Issues , Tv Debate , Core , Keir Starmerjust , Purposes , Floor , Chopper , Polls , Ukraine , Opinion Polls , Four , Remarks , Up Untilthe , Oinion , Reform Drift , Supermajority Thing , Doorsteps , Experience , Front , Opposition , Scrutiny , Weave Outfought , Three , Pensions Question , Core Tory Vote , Have , Fact Checking , Tax Under , 000 , 2000 , Problem , Taxes , History , Labour Strategy Is , Debates , Trouble , Mandate , Regrets , Reforms , Housing , He Starmer , Uninspiring , Unimaginative , Secret , Momentum , Reform Vote , Secret Agenda , Reform , Public Opinion , Distilling , Know , Mother , Claw , Claw Back , Distilling 0r , Attributingi , 0 , Itj Ukraine Wins , Ukraine Wins , Unimportant , 7 , 1 , My Home State , Patient , Mistake , Putting , He Isi , My , Salisbury , Reform Candidate , Side A , Novichok , Seats , Ministers , Latest , Judgment , Terror , Putin , Bags , Udument , Cabinet Minister , Cabinet Ministers , Hill , Portillo Moment , We Don T Be A Portillo Moment , Portillo , Risk , Mrp , Challenge , Pressure , Mrp Predictions , Penny Mordaunt , I Ministers , Contender , Grant Shapps , Portsmouth , Big Labour , Leadership Contender , Leadership Mordaunt Potentially A Future Tory Contender , In Portsmouth , Under Mordaunt Potentially A Future Tory Leadership Contender , Grant I Leadership , Mordaunt , Lord Chancellor , Spending , Surrey , Jeremy Hunt , Chalk , Alex Chalk , Liberal Democrats , Big Trouble , Lord , Constituency Spending , Hi , Alexi Chalk , Liberal , Chichester , Seat , Conservative , Education Secretary , Conservative Seat , Of A Defensive Tory , Of A Defensive Tory Strategy I Idea , Mark Harper , Ai Conservative Seat , Democrat , Liberal Conservative , Education , Liberal Democrat , Gillian Keegan , Defensive , Gillian Keeqan , Hang , Others , Majority , Eole , Hang Will Have To Go , 10000 , Doing , Conservative Central Office , 20000 , Ten , Bowling , Bowling Tonight , Toniaht , 465 , 265 , We I Encouragement , Rishi , Same , Encouragement , Itj , 56 , 44 , Care Star , Expectations , Win , A O , Look , Actors , Papers , Text Message , Daily Mail , Moving On , Honey Trap Scandal , Party Member , Battle Against Islamism , The Independent , French , Doctors , Iwon T , Junior Doctors , Bets , Thejunior Doctors , Starmer Squares , Rise , Thejunior Starmer Squares , 35 , Cyber Army , Hackers , Scenic Out Of Touch , Kremlin , Russian , Sleep Well , Borders , Bbc News , London , Rishi Sunak Clash , Election Campaign , Don T , Scandal ,