kenned , perhaps even mystical event. duncan kennedy. thank _ perhaps even mystical event. duncan kennedy, thank you. _ time for a look at the weather, here's louise lear. this programme continues on bbc one. hard questions for rishi sunak tonight on the election day bet allegations. how is he handling them and how much is he damaged? good evening, welcome to newsnight, every weeknight, home of lively interviews and electric insight. joining us throughout: david yelland, the former editor of the sun, jo tanner, who wrangled borisjohnson�*s comms, and top pollster luke tryl. in our sights tonight, the bbc question time show which has just ended on bbc one, in which rishi sunak has had to defend two candidates and a close aide as the gambling commission look into allegations about betting on the date of the general election. inexplicably, someone at tory hq thought it was a good idea to put a spinning roulette wheel in a tory election video. before we dig into that, here's a flavour of the debate from york. like you, i was incredibly angry. incredibly angry to learn of these allegations. it incredibly angry to learn of these allegations-_ allegations. it is a really serious matter. allegations. it is a really serious matter- it _ allegations. it is a really serious matter- it is _ allegations. it is a really serious matter. it is right _ allegations. it is a really serious matter. it is right that _ allegations. it is a really serious matter. it is right that they - allegations. it is a really serious matter. it is right that they are l matter. it is right that they are being investigated properly by the relevant law enforcement authorities, including as fiona set authorities, including as fiona set a criminal investigation by the police. i want to be crystal clear that if anyone has broken the rules, they should face the full force of they should face the full force of the law. that is what those investigations are there to do, and i hope they do their work as quickly and thoroughly as possible. i i hope they do their work as quickly and thoroughly as possible.- and thoroughly as possible. i want to return politics _ and thoroughly as possible. i want to return politics to _ and thoroughly as possible. i want to return politics to service. - and thoroughly as possible. i want to return politics to service. i - to return politics to service. i think— to return politics to service. i think it — to return politics to service. i think it has _ to return politics to service. i think it has got far too much into self entitlement. look at what is going _ self entitlement. look at what is going on— self entitlement. look at what is going on today, politicians think that making money or self entitlement is the reason they are in politics — entitlement is the reason they are in politics. it needs to return to service~ — in politics. it needs to return to service. , �* ., , ., ., service. isn't a problem we have a credibility issue? _ service. isn't a problem we have a credibility issue? we _ service. isn't a problem we have a credibility issue? we remember. service. isn't a problem we have a i credibility issue? we remember the promise _ credibility issue? we remember the promise on— credibility issue? we remember the promise on tuition _ credibility issue? we remember the promise on tuition fees. _ credibility issue? we remember the promise on tuition fees. do - credibility issue? we remember the promise on tuition fees. do the - credibility issue? we remember the| promise on tuition fees. do the easy choice _ promise on tuition fees. do the easy choice would — promise on tuition fees. do the easy choice would be _ promise on tuition fees. do the easy choice would be to _ promise on tuition fees. do the easy choice would be to leave _ promise on tuition fees. do the easy i choice would be to leave government, vote against _ choice would be to leave government, vote against it — choice would be to leave government, vote against it. the _ choice would be to leave government, vote against it— vote against it. the hard choices to sta in, vote against it. the hard choices to stay in. and _ vote against it. the hard choices to stay in, and really _ vote against it. the hard choices to stay in, and really fight. _ vote against it. the hard choices to stay in, and really fight. as - vote against it. the hard choices to stay in, and really fight. as i - stay in, and really fight. as i explained earlier, the tories did not want us to bring in free school meals, we fought for that and got it. , ., ., , it. the first thing i would do is i would argue. — it. the first thing i would do is i would argue, as _ it. the first thing i would do is i would argue, as we _ it. the first thing i would do is i would argue, as we argued - it. the first thing i would do is i would argue, as we argued in l it. the first thing i would do is i l would argue, as we argued in our manifesto, — would argue, as we argued in our manifesto, to rejoin the european union _ manifesto, to rejoin the european union that — manifesto, to rejoin the european union. that i think is the source of the problems in the manufacturing sector~ _ nick is in york where the debate just wrapped up. nick, what will you remember? i would say that there is one big theme from tonight's debate, that is loveis theme from tonight's debate, that is love is not in the air. it would appear this audience and probably the rest of the country are not wild about our politicians. all four party leaders faced a lot of pressure. for ed davey, his record in coalition. forjohn swinney, snp leader, first minister of scotland, questioned over the turmoil in scottish government and in the snp. interestingly, for rishi sunak and keir starmer, pressure on them, but a certain amount of bullishness from both of them. for keir starmer, a lot of pressure on that familiar question, why did you say five years ago thatjeremy corbyn would make a great prime minister? keir starmer came up with that familiar response, i didn't think labour was going to win the general election. they also suggested something i had not heard from him before which is thatjeremy corbyn would have made a better prime minister than borisjohnson. prime minister than boris johnson. but prime minister than borisjohnson. but then bullishness from keir starmer, he was asked, why have you gone back on your idea to get rid of university tuition fees? keir starmer said, university tuition fees? keir starmersaid, i have university tuition fees? keir starmer said, i have made a choice, a political choice, that is what leaders do. i made a choice to spend that money on bringing down nhs waiting lists. for rishi sunak, pressure on the conservative record in government. are you not embarrassed, he was asked, that you are the last of five prime ministers during this period of conservative rule? but then he was asked towards the end by a young women in the audience, why is it your thinking possibly a pulling out of the european court of human rights? rishi sunak said, i disagree with you. to which the women said, i was asking a question, you're misrepresenting me. what did the audience say? shame. what misrepresenting me. what did the audience say? shame. what about rishi sunak's _ audience say? shame. what about rishi sunak's response, _ audience say? shame. what about rishi sunak's response, he - audience say? shame. what about. rishi sunak's response, he addressed those allegations about betting. what did he say about that? this those allegations about betting. what did he say about that? as we “ust what did he say about that? as we just heard. — what did he say about that? as we just heard. the _ what did he say about that? as we just heard, the prime _ what did he say about that? as we just heard, the prime minister - what did he say about that? as wej just heard, the prime minister said he is incredibly angry about these allegations. what he said is that if anyone in the conservative party is found to have done this, and it is important to say that these are allegations at this stage, he said they should face the full consequences of the law, and they should be booted out of the conservative party. but this does take us back to a discussion that you and i had in the studio where you and i had in the studio where you are sitting on the 21st of may. i said on newsnight that the fall in inflation that day meant that rishi sunak might callan inflation that day meant that rishi sunak might call an election the next day, and that election might be on the 4th ofjuly. and of course, thatis on the 4th ofjuly. and of course, that is exactly what happened. so, here isa is a flavour of our exchange. there are massive rumours in the conservative party — i stress that there are rumours — that what this means is the stars are aligning for rishi sunak, and there's big speculation amongst conservative mps that tomorrow the prime minister will announce the date of the election. well, kirsty, whati well, kirsty, what i was telling you there was based on multiple conversations i had with tory mps over a few days. what happened in that period? if we look at a graphic we saw today from bet fair, we can see there was a dramatic uptick in bets on a july election on the 21st of may. that was the day that you and i spoke, and the day that i had for the first time that the 4th of july was being talked about as the date of the election. so, what was happening on that day, the 4th of july was in circulation in the westminster waters, july was in circulation in the westminsterwaters, i july was in circulation in the westminster waters, i heard it, others heard it, and some of those others heard it, and some of those others appeared to have tried to have a little bit of a flatter. nick, we will speak to you again. thank you very much indeed. let's talk to our panel, david yelland, jo tanner and luke tryl. david yelland, you do a podcast, when it hits the fan, if you are going to give free advice to rishi sunak about all this, what would you say to him about these betting allegations? i say to him about these betting allegations?— allegations? i think i would be sa inc, allegations? i think i would be saying. just — allegations? i think i would be saying. just get _ allegations? i think i would be saying, just get through - allegations? i think i would be saying, just get through the i allegations? i think i would be i saying, just get through the next two weeks. 0n the betting allegations, very difficult. i think i would say, have they bet this money or not? anyone on the staff that made a bet on that day should be fired immediately. i cannot understand why you have to wait for an investigation. jo understand why you have to wait for an investigation.— an investigation. jo tanner, you have been _ an investigation. jo tanner, you have been in — an investigation. jo tanner, you have been in the _ an investigation. jo tanner, you have been in the rooms - an investigation. jo tanner, you have been in the rooms in - an investigation. jo tanner, you i have been in the rooms in downing street, some very difficult conversations, what is your overriding emotion about this? i think it is disgraceful. it is astonishing as well, you have got a campaign _ astonishing as well, you have got a campaign that has no lot is —— lost its campaign — campaign that has no lot is —— lost its campaign director. it could not be worse — its campaign director. it could not be worse. the point david is making is absolutely right, you ask the question. — is absolutely right, you ask the question, did you make a bet or not? if it question, did you make a bet or not? if it was _ question, did you make a bet or not? if it was yes, — question, did you make a bet or not? if it was yes, you can suspend them now _ if it was yes, you can suspend them now you _ if it was yes, you can suspend them now you do — if it was yes, you can suspend them now. you do not have to wait for an investigation, you do not have to do that, _ investigation, you do not have to do that, you _ investigation, you do not have to do that, you can— investigation, you do not have to do that, you can crack on and have that conversation — that, you can crack on and have that conversation yourself. and then... it conversation yourself. and then... it doesn't — conversation yourself. and then... it doesn't put it to bed, but it will stop— it doesn't put it to bed, but it will stop some of it because you will have — will stop some of it because you will have taken action. this patch of waiting — will have taken action. this patch of waiting for the investigation is pointless — of waiting for the investigation is ointless. ~' ., of waiting for the investigation is ointless. ~' . ., pointless. luke, we have had partygate. — pointless. luke, we have had partygate. d _ pointless. luke, we have had partygate. d day. _ pointless. luke, we have had partygate, d day, now- pointless. luke, we have had partygate, d day, now this i pointless. luke, we have had - partygate, d day, now this tawdry betting scandal, is this going to cut through with the voters? i definitely think this will cut through _ definitely think this will cut through the _ definitely think this will cut through. the reason - definitely think this will cut through. the reason it- definitely think this will cut through. the reason it will| definitely think this will cut. through. the reason it will cut through— through. the reason it will cut through as _ through. the reason it will cut through as it— through. the reason it will cut through as it is _ through. the reason it will cut through as it is one _ through. the reason it will cut through as it is one of- through. the reason it will cut through as it is one of those i through. the reason it will cut - through as it is one of those things that really— through as it is one of those things that really annoys _ through as it is one of those things that really annoys the _ through as it is one of those things that really annoys the public. - through as it is one of those things that really annoys the public. it - through as it is one of those things that really annoys the public. it is. that really annoys the public. it is that really annoys the public. it is that sense — that really annoys the public. it is that sense of _ that really annoys the public. it is that sense of one _ that really annoys the public. it is that sense of one rule _ that really annoys the public. it is that sense of one rule for- that really annoys the public. it is that sense of one rule for them, i that sense of one rule for them, another— that sense of one rule for them, another ruie _ that sense of one rule for them, another rule for— that sense of one rule for them, another rule for us. _ that sense of one rule for them, another rule for us. we - that sense of one rule for them, another rule for us. we saw- that sense of one rule for them, j another rule for us. we saw that with— another rule for us. we saw that with partvgate, _ another rule for us. we saw that with partygate, we _ another rule for us. we saw that with partygate, we had - another rule for us. we saw that with partygate, we had focus - another rule for us. we saw that i with partygate, we had focus group saving _ with partygate, we had focus group saying i_ with partygate, we had focus group saying i missed _ with partygate, we had focus group saying i missed weddings, - with partygate, we had focus groupl saying i missed weddings, funerals, they did _ saying i missed weddings, funerals, they did not — saying i missed weddings, funerals, they did not follow _ saying i missed weddings, funerals, they did not follow the _ saying i missed weddings, funerals, they did not follow the rules. - saying i missed weddings, funerals, they did not follow the rules. a - they did not follow the rules. a similar— they did not follow the rules. a similar thing _ they did not follow the rules. a similarthing here, _ they did not follow the rules. a similarthing here, how- they did not follow the rules. a similar thing here, how can - they did not follow the rules. ai similar thing here, how can they they did not follow the rules. a - similar thing here, how can they get away— similar thing here, how can they get away with— similar thing here, how can they get away with that? _ similar thing here, how can they get away with that? the _ similar thing here, how can they get away with that? the way _ similar thing here, how can they get away with that? the way the - away with that? the way the conservative _ away with that? the way the conservative campaign - away with that? the way the conservative campaign is - away with that? the way the - conservative campaign is going, they could not— conservative campaign is going, they could not afford _ conservative campaign is going, they could not afford to _ conservative campaign is going, they could not afford to have _ conservative campaign is going, they could not afford to have another- could not afford to have another misstep — could not afford to have another misstep like _ could not afford to have another misstep like this. _ could not afford to have another misstep like this. yet _ could not afford to have another misstep like this. yet this - could not afford to have another misstep like this. yet this is- could not afford to have another. misstep like this. yet this is what has happened _ misstep like this. yet this is what has happened-— misstep like this. yet this is what has happened. misstep like this. yet this is what has hauened. ~ ~ . ., has happened. when michael gove was asked about it. — has happened. when michael gove was asked about it, he _ has happened. when michael gove was asked about it, he seemed _ has happened. when michael gove was asked about it, he seemed pretty - asked about it, he seemed pretty annoyed. and pretty disgusted. david yelland, this idea that politicians, would be politicians, could do something like this. it is kind of beyond, isn't it? we something like this. it is kind of beyond, isn't it?— something like this. it is kind of be ond, isn't it? ~ . ., ., ., beyond, isn't it? we are at a moment in time now. — beyond, isn't it? we are at a moment in time now. at _ beyond, isn't it? we are at a moment in time now, at the _ beyond, isn't it? we are at a moment in time now, at the end _ beyond, isn't it? we are at a moment in time now, at the end of _ beyond, isn't it? we are at a moment in time now, at the end of a - beyond, isn't it? we are at a moment in time now, at the end of a long - in time now, at the end of a long period of corruption, basically. if you're going to talk about this a little bit later, i think the media are complacent and a lot of this, as well, having let people get away with things. but the problem that rishi sunak has... with things. but the problem that rishi sunak has. . ._ rishi sunak has... what kind of thins? rishi sunak has... what kind of things? partygate, _ rishi sunak has... what kind of things? partygate, that - rishi sunak has... what kind of things? partygate, that sort - rishi sunak has... what kind of things? partygate, that sort of| things? partygate, that sort of complicitynu _ things? partygate, that sort of complicity,... pride _ things? partygate, that sort of complicity,... pride you - things? partygate, that sort of complicity,... pride you to - things? partygate, that sort of. complicity,... pride you to think they're are proper complicity,___ pride you to think they're are proper investigations into partygate? there was, but the fact is... let's take the keir starmer incident in durham. that was run and run and run. if the press had been doing theirjob, which is to hold the powerful to account, we would not be in this state. jo. to hold the powerful to account, we would not be in this state.— would not be in this state. jo, look at that graph _ would not be in this state. jo, look at that graph that _ would not be in this state. jo, look at that graph that nick— would not be in this state. jo, look at that graph that nick showed - would not be in this state. jo, look at that graph that nick showed us, j at that graph that nick showed us, which was this massive spike in betting. that would suggest that it is notjust betting. that would suggest that it is not just a betting. that would suggest that it is notjust a couple of people. i was keen to ask nick... nick i is notjust a couple of people. i - was keen to ask nick. .. nick would was keen to ask nick... nick would never do that! _ was keen to ask nick... nick would never do that! there _ was keen to ask nick... nick would never do that! there are _ was keen to ask nick... nick would never do that! there are so - was keen to ask nick... nick would never do that! there are so many l never do that! there are so many levels to this. _ never do that! there are so many levels to this. firstly, _ never do that! there are so many levels to this. firstly, the - never do that! there are so many levels to this. firstly, the fact - levels to this. firstly, the fact that— levels to this. firstly, the fact that these are people that want to run the _ that these are people that want to run the country but were stupid enough — run the country but were stupid enough to— run the country but were stupid enough to put the bets on in their own name. — enough to put the bets on in their own name, ijust think, hang on, really. _ own name, ijust think, hang on, really. you — own name, ijust think, hang on, really, you that smart that you think you — really, you that smart that you think you should be elected and responsible for things that really important? and the fact that people thought— important? and the fact that people thought they were going to get away with it _ thought they were going to get away with it at _ thought they were going to get away with it. at some point, is not a moment— with it. at some point, is not a moment for— with it. at some point, is not a moment for you just have a sort of, no, there _ moment for you just have a sort of, no, there is— moment for you just have a sort of, no, there is something not right about— no, there is something not right about this, _ no, there is something not right about this, i know something that maybe _ about this, i know something that mavbe i_ about this, i know something that maybe i should or should not know, but i maybe i should or should not know, but i am _ maybe i should or should not know, but i am doing something i shouldn't with that _ but i am doing something i shouldn't with that information isjust crazy. it is extraordinary. it isjust one of a _ it is extraordinary. it isjust one of a series— it is extraordinary. it isjust one of a series of— it is extraordinary. it isjust one of a series of examples. - it is extraordinary. it isjust one of a series of examples. you i of a series of examples. you would say it— of a series of examples. you would say it is— of a series of examples. you would say it is political— of a series of examples. you would say it is political malpractice - of a series of examples. you would say it is political malpractice in - say it is political malpractice in the campaign, _ say it is political malpractice in the campaign, right— say it is political malpractice in the campaign, right from - say it is political malpractice in the campaign, right from thatl say it is political malpractice in - the campaign, right from that lunch in the _ the campaign, right from that lunch in the rain. — the campaign, right from that lunch in the rain, through— the campaign, right from that lunch in the rain, through to _ the campaign, right from that lunch in the rain, through to the - the campaign, right from that lunch in the rain, through to the day, - in the rain, through to the day, which _ in the rain, through to the day, which has — in the rain, through to the day, which has made _ in the rain, through to the day, which has made people - in the rain, through to the day, which has made people more i in the rain, through to the day, - which has made people more angry than this— which has made people more angry than this even. _ which has made people more angry than this even. he _ which has made people more angry than this even.— than this even. he is still getting a lotta backlash _ than this even. he is still getting a lotta backlash about _ than this even. he is still getting a lotta backlash about that. - than this even. he is still getting a lotta backlash about that. it. a lotta backlash about that. it comes up with conservative undecided voters _ comes up with conservative undecided voters who— comes up with conservative undecided voters who say— comes up with conservative undecided voters who say i— comes up with conservative undecided voters who say i was _ comes up with conservative undecided voters who say i was favouring, - comes up with conservative undecided voters who say i was favouring, but i voters who say i was favouring, but after _ voters who say i was favouring, but after that _ voters who say i was favouring, but after that i— voters who say i was favouring, but after that i decided _ voters who say i was favouring, but after that i decided i— voters who say i was favouring, but after that i decided i cannot - after that i decided i cannot vote for them — after that i decided i cannot vote for them it— after that i decided i cannot vote forthem~ it is— after that i decided i cannot vote for them. it is really— after that i decided i cannot vote for them. it is really important. after that i decided i cannot vote i for them. it is really important not to downplay— for them. it is really important not to downplay the _ for them. it is really important not to downplay the importance - for them. it is really important not to downplay the importance of - for them. it is really important not. to downplay the importance of that. we have _ to downplay the importance of that. we have had — to downplay the importance of that. we have had these _ to downplay the importance of that. we have had these polls _ to downplay the importance of that. we have had these polls and - we have had these polls and conversations about the general malaise and had people generally have little faith in politicians. do you think voters entirely look at the conservatives on this or you think everybody is tainted? it is very definitely _ think everybody is tainted? it is very definitely a _ think everybody is tainted? it is very definitely a pox on all the houses — very definitely a pox on all the houses. everybody— very definitely a pox on all the houses. everybody says, - very definitely a pox on all the houses. everybody says, and i houses. everybody says, and people always— houses. everybody says, and people always apathetic _ houses. everybody says, and people always apathetic about _ houses. everybody says, and people always apathetic about politicians i always apathetic about politicians or cvnical? — always apathetic about politicians or cynical? the _ always apathetic about politicians or cynical? the difference - always apathetic about politicians or cynical? the difference is, - always apathetic about politicians or cynical? the difference is, thisj or cynical? the difference is, this time, _ or cynical? the difference is, this time, there — or cynical? the difference is, this time, there is— or cynical? the difference is, this time, there is something - or cynical? the difference is, this| time, there is something deeper, or cynical? the difference is, this. time, there is something deeper, a sense _ time, there is something deeper, a sense of— time, there is something deeper, a sense of futility. _ time, there is something deeper, a sense of futility. wherever- time, there is something deeper, a sense of futility. wherever we - time, there is something deeper, a sense of futility. wherever we get, | sense of futility. wherever we get, it will— sense of futility. wherever we get, it will be _ sense of futility. wherever we get, it will be the — sense of futility. wherever we get, it will be the same. _ sense of futility. wherever we get, it will be the same. i— sense of futility. wherever we get, it will be the same.— it will be the same. i think everybody _ it will be the same. i think everybody started - it will be the same. i think everybody started the - it will be the same. i think- everybody started the election angrv — everybody started the election angry. the amount of people i would speak— angry. the amount of people i would speak to _ angry. the amount of people i would speak to who know what i do, they would _ speak to who know what i do, they would just— speak to who know what i do, they would just come and sound off at you _ would just come and sound off at you there — would just come and sound off at you. there have been doing that for a long _ you. there have been doing that for a longtime — you. there have been doing that for a long time. as we went into the election. — a long time. as we went into the election. it— a long time. as we went into the election, it was getting worse. i think— election, it was getting worse. i think people are just angry with all politicians. we think people are “ust angry with all oliticians. ~ . ., think people are “ust angry with all oliticians. ~ _, . ,, ., politicians. we will come back to ou on politicians. we will come back to you on that- _ well, how is it all spinning in the spin room in york? joining us bim afolami, the economic secretary to the treasury, and louise haigh, the shadow secretary of state for transport. thank you very much forjoining us. bim, first of all, i don't know if you have been listening to that, but why are the candidates, why are the people involved in this not all suspended while there is further investigation?— suspended while there is further investigation? because there is an investigation _ investigation? because there is an investigation going _ investigation? because there is an investigation going on. _ investigation? because there is an | investigation going on. ultimately, independent authorities are going to look at this as quickly as possible, and once that determination is made, as the prime minister has made clear, if they have broken the rules, they will be booted out of the party. but it is important that we allow them at the police to do their work. 50 we allow them at the police to do their work-— we allow them at the police to do their work. ., ., , their work. so even though there has been an apology. _ their work. so even though there has been an apology, that _ their work. so even though there has been an apology, that has _ their work. so even though there has been an apology, that has not - their work. so even though there has been an apology, that has not been l been an apology, that has not been enough to say, look, you know, you have apologised, the apology wasn't for exactly what the person had done, but as far as you are concerned, even though we are two weeks from an election, this could have huge implications, it is better to not do what keir starmer said he would do and jo tanner mentioned there, which is move straightaway? keir starmer says a lot of things. the important thing is that, if the independent authorities determine something is wrong, action will be taken. that is fair and reasonable. just before i turned to louise, did you get a shock when you saw that massive spike?— you get a shock when you saw that massive spike?_ it - you get a shock when you saw that massive spike?_ it wasj you get a shock when you saw that i massive spike?_ it was a massive spike? yes, it was. it was a shock? did — massive spike? yes, it was. it was a shock? did it— massive spike? yes, it was. it was a shock? did it occur— massive spike? yes, it was. it was a shock? did it occur to _ massive spike? yes, it was. it was a shock? did it occur to you _ massive spike? yes, it was. it was a shock? did it occur to you how - massive spike? yes, it was. it was a shock? did it occur to you how it - shock? did it occur to you how it mightjust have i don't bet. i don't have a betting account. you know, i am pretty naive when it comes to these things. i am pretty naive when it comes to these things-— am pretty naive when it comes to these thins. ., , , these things. i am sure the gambling commission — these things. i am sure the gambling commission will— these things. i am sure the gambling commission will do _ these things. i am sure the gambling commission will do its _ these things. i am sure the gambling commission will do its job, _ these things. i am sure the gambling commission will do its job, as - these things. i am sure the gambling commission will do its job, as well. commission will do its job, as well the police. you have got to allow these things to happen.- these things to happen. louise haiuh, these things to happen. louise haigh, as _ these things to happen. louise haigh, as bim _ these things to happen. louise haigh, as bim said, _ these things to happen. louise haigh, as bim said, innocent. these things to happen. louise i haigh, as bim said, innocent until proven guilty. keir starmer would suspend them, but actually it is innocent until proven guilty, isn't it? you shouldn't rush to judgment. these are astonishing revelations. my understanding is that one of the candidates has accepted that they placed _ candidates has accepted that they placed a _ candidates has accepted that they placed a bet ahead of the election. so there _ placed a bet ahead of the election. so there is— placed a bet ahead of the election. so there is a potential that criminal— so there is a potential that criminal rules around gambling have been broken here. i think rishi sunak— been broken here. i think rishi sunak has— been broken here. i think rishi sunak has further questions to answer— sunak has further questions to answer about this. the gambling commission has had several individuals are under investigation. are there _ individuals are under investigation. are there other candidates that are under— are there other candidates that are under investigation we have not been told about? _ under investigation we have not been told about? is he going to go and campaign — told about? is he going to go and campaign for the candidates to become — campaign for the candidates to become mps that have already been published? does he think they are fit to be _ published? does he think they are fit to be ministers any potential torv— fit to be ministers any potential tory government? it feels like this is the _ tory government? it feels like this is the tip _ tory government? it feels like this is the tip of— tory government? it feels like this is the tip of an iceberg in a much wider— is the tip of an iceberg in a much wider scandal. only what we have unearthed — wider scandal. only what we have unearthed so far is down to fantastic— unearthed so far is down to fantasticjournalism, but it doesn't feel that _ fantasticjournalism, but it doesn't feel that the prime minister was giving _ feel that the prime minister was giving the full facts of the case todav~ — giving the full facts of the case toda . �* , ., today. bim, you were there in the sin today. bim, you were there in the spin room. _ today. bim, you were there in the spin room. you — today. bim, you were there in the spin room, you are _ today. bim, you were there in the spin room, you are part— today. bim, you were there in the spin room, you are part of- today. bim, you were there in the spin room, you are part of rishi i spin room, you are part of rishi sunak's team, have you spoken to him about this? i sunak's team, have you spoken to him about this? ., �* sunak's team, have you spoken to him about this? . �* , ., about this? i haven't spoken to the prime minister _ about this? i haven't spoken to the prime minister about _ about this? i haven't spoken to the prime minister about this, - about this? i haven't spoken to the prime minister about this, no. - about this? i haven't spoken to the j prime minister about this, no. why not prime minister about this, no. why no- , prime minister about this, no. why no- r ., prime minister about this, no. why no. , ., prime minister about this, no. why no- r ., ., ., not why not? do you not have strate: not why not? do you not have strategy conversations - not why not? do you not have strategy conversations before j not why not? do you not have - strategy conversations before the prime minister goes on stage? weill. prime minister goes on stage? well, i arrived prime minister goes on stage? well, i arrived from _ prime minister goes on stage? well, i arrived from my _ prime minister goes on stage? -ii i arrived from my constituency, came here, watch the debate. i have seen the prime minister, only spoken very briefly, haven't had a chance to discuss this at length.— briefly, haven't had a chance to discuss this at length. when you see how --eole discuss this at length. when you see how people live _ discuss this at length. when you see how people live and _ discuss this at length. when you see how people live and you _ discuss this at length. when you see how people live and you had - discuss this at length. when you see how people live and you had peoplel how people live and you had people in the audience there— how the cost of living crisis is still affecting people, surely the response from the top should be something that is particularly swift, particularly rigorous at the moment because people feel, often, that politicians are not out for them, they are out for themselves will stop ages. are not out for them, they are out for themselves will stop— for themselves will stop yes, you are riaht for themselves will stop yes, you are right that _ for themselves will stop yes, you are right that people _ for themselves will stop yes, you are right that people often - for themselves will stop yes, you are right that people often feel. are right that people often feel that. you mention the cost of living. the prime minister was absolutely clear this evening about his way of dealing with the cost of living crisis. he has stabilised the economy, inflation is down to 2%, which means that prices are not rising anything like as fast as they were a couple of years ago, he has met his ambition and target there, and he is cutting taxes for working people and working households all over this country. those tax cuts are being put at risk by keir starmer and the potential labour government because they want to raise taxes on people's homes, their car, their pension. that is what we are fighting against. the prime minister was very clear and resolute about that choice before the british people in two weeks.— about that choice before the british people in two weeks. louise, what do ou sa to people in two weeks. louise, what do you say to that? _ people in two weeks. louise, what do you say to that? l _ people in two weeks. louise, what do you say to that? i think the _ people in two weeks. louise, what do you say to that? i think the brass - you say to that? i think the brass neck of a conservative _ you say to that? i think the brass neck of a conservative candidate | you say to that? i think the brass i neck of a conservative candidate in this election to suggest that any other— this election to suggest that any other party is going to be raising taxes _ other party is going to be raising taxes when we are currently facing a taxes when we are currently facing a tax burden _ taxes when we are currently facing a tax burden at the highest level since _ tax burden at the highest level since the — tax burden at the highest level since the second world war. the cost of living _ since the second world war. the cost of living crisis that bim afolami hasjust— of living crisis that bim afolami hasjust described is coming down over the _ hasjust described is coming down over the last two years was triggered in large part due to less trust _ triggered in large part due to less trust and — triggered in large part due to less trust and her disastrous mini budget. _ trust and her disastrous mini budget, her potential unfunded tax cuts that— budget, her potential unfunded tax cuts that drove up interest rates and working people are still bearing the brunt— and working people are still bearing the brunt for in the consequence of higher— the brunt for in the consequence of higher mortgages. that is exactly what _ higher mortgages. that is exactly what rishi sunak's and costed an unfunded — what rishi sunak's and costed an unfunded manifesto will risk all over again. unfunded manifesto will risk all overagain. billions unfunded manifesto will risk all over again. billions of pounds of unfunded — over again. billions of pounds of unfunded promises. they have not learned _ unfunded promises. they have not learned their lessons. if unfunded promises. they have not learned their lessons.— learned their lessons. if there is an incoming _ learned their lessons. if there is an incoming labour— learned their lessons. if there is | an incoming labour government, learned their lessons. if there is - an incoming labour government, they are going to have defined 19 billion. it is going to come from departments that are not protected, what sort of departments will have to and cut? is it going to be present, thejustice department? who is going to take a hit? if labour wants to be honest, labour has to say they are going to have to be 19 billion in tax cuts. there are specific tax rises we are setting _ there are specific tax rises we are setting out — there are specific tax rises we are setting out ahead of this general election— setting out ahead of this general election including abolishing the non-dom — election including abolishing the non—dom tax relief, abolishing it for vat— non—dom tax relief, abolishing it for vat relief on private schools and private equity interest which will provide an immediate injection into public— will provide an immediate injection into public services including schools _ into public services including schools and the nhs. our approach is fundamentally different to the conservatives's. we are putting in place _ conservatives's. we are putting in place an— conservatives's. we are putting in place an industrial strategy, improving how we deliver infrastructure, as i've announced today, _ infrastructure, as i've announced today, in— infrastructure, as i've announced today, in partnership with business in the _ today, in partnership with business in the of— today, in partnership with business in the of england.— in the of england. let's dig in a little bit more _ in the of england. let's dig in a little bit more to _ in the of england. let's dig in a little bit more to the _ in the of england. let's dig in a little bit more to the keir- in the of england. let's dig in a i little bit more to the keir starmer part of the debate. towards the end he was asked about his endorsement ofjeremy corbyn in 2019 and he said then, jeremy corbyn would make a great prime minister. was he lying? well, keir starmerand great prime minister. was he lying? well, keir starmer and the rest of us standing in that election made no apologies— us standing in that election made no apologies for the fact we were campaigning for labour candidates and a _ campaigning for labour candidates and a labour victory. did campaigning for labour candidates and a labour victory.— and a labour victory. did you say that jeremy _ and a labour victory. did you say that jeremy corbyn _ and a labour victory. did you say that jeremy corbyn would - and a labour victory. did you say that jeremy corbyn would make | and a labour victory. did you say| that jeremy corbyn would make a thatjeremy corbyn would make a great minister? i that jeremy corbyn would make a great minister?— great minister? i can't recall exactly what _ great minister? i can't recall exactly what words - great minister? i can't recall exactly what words are - great minister? i can't recall exactly what words are used | great minister? i can't recall - exactly what words are used five years _ exactly what words are used five years ago — exactly what words are used five years ago. you might be able to quote _ years ago. you might be able to quote me — years ago. you might be able to quote me. we make no apologies for campaigning for the labour party. i've campaigning for the labour party. i've been— campaigning for the labour party. i've been a — campaigning for the labour party. i've been a labour party member for 21 years _ i've been a labour party member for 21 years of— i've been a labour party member for 21 years. of course we campaign for labour— 21 years. of course we campaign for labour candidates. but 21 years. of course we campaign for labour candidates.— labour candidates. but keir starmer. .. _ labour candidates. but keir starmer... either— labour candidates. but keir starmer. .. either he - labour candidates. but keiri starmer. .. either he changed labour candidates. but keir- starmer. .. either he changed his starmer... either he changed his mind or keep wasn't being honest with the electorate. a pretty big thing to say, campaigning for labour for years but actually saying jeremy corbyn would be a great buy minister if he doesn't believe it... that isn't being honest with the electorate either, is it? he isn't being honest with the electorate either, is it? he was the labour leader— electorate either, is it? he was the labour leader at _ electorate either, is it? he was the labour leader at the _ electorate either, is it? he was the labour leader at the time - electorate either, is it? he was the labour leader at the time and - electorate either, is it? he was the labour leader at the time and we i labour leader at the time and we were _ labour leader at the time and we were campaigning fora labour leader at the time and we were campaigning for a labour victory~ — were campaigning for a labour victory. that manifesto led us to the worst — victory. that manifesto led us to the worst election defeat in our history — the worst election defeat in our history. you canjudge keir starmer on his— history. you canjudge keir starmer on his actions since then, changing the party— on his actions since then, changing the party from top to bottom and that's— the party from top to bottom and that's why— the party from top to bottom and that's why we are doing well in this electioh _ that's why we are doing well in this election. we can from that disastrous defeat in 2019, to a point — disastrous defeat in 2019, to a point where we can be in contention for keir— point where we can be in contention for keir starmer to be in number ten intwo— for keir starmer to be in number ten in two weeks's time. that's the measure — in two weeks's time. that's the measure by which he should be judged — measure by which he should be judged. we learn from the 2019 general— judged. we learn from the 2019 general election, in contrast to the tories _ general election, in contrast to the tories who— general election, in contrast to the tories who fail to learn lessons from _ tories who fail to learn lessons from just— tories who fail to learn lessons from just less than two years ago when _ from just less than two years ago when li2— from just less than two years ago when liz truss crashed the economy. thank— when liz truss crashed the economy. thank you _ so what did ed davey and john swinney�*s teams have to say for themselves in the spin room? nick, back to you. for the two smaller parties here it is a story of government and the questions that go with it. for the snp, they have been in powerfor 17 years. the questions about that record but also the turmoil in the party. the view among the snp spinners is thatjohn swinney did well. he looked like a figure of gravitas, they believe, and they said that the applause during his session for him was for him but when it was for the main leaders it was for the questions. a lot of questions for ed davey about the coalition. the lib dems spinners, their opinion is that he gave an honest account and talked about how he is trying to repair trust with voters. here are the two leading spinners i caught up with just after the debate. the key point he was making is that we won— the key point he was making is that we won a _ the key point he was making is that we won a massive _ the key point he was making is that we won a massive mandate - the key point he was making is that we won a massive mandate in- the key point he was making is that we won a massive mandate in the i we won a massive mandate in the scottish— we won a massive mandate in the scottish parliament, _ we won a massive mandate in the scottish parliament, supporting i we won a massive mandate in the - scottish parliament, supporting msps since 202! _ scottish parliament, supporting msps since 202! the — scottish parliament, supporting msps since 2021. the uk _ scottish parliament, supporting msps since 2021. the uk government- scottish parliament, supporting msps since 2021. the uk government could j since 2021. the uk government could respect _ since 2021. the uk government could respect that — since 2021. the uk government could respect that he — since 2021. the uk government could respect that. he has _ since 2021. the uk government could respect that. he has said _ since 2021. the uk government could respect that. he has said that - since 2021. the uk government could respect that. he has said that if- since 2021. the uk government could respect that. he has said that if we i respect that. he has said that if we win a _ respect that. he has said that if we win a majority— respect that. he has said that if we win a majority of— respect that. he has said that if we win a majority of seats _ respect that. he has said that if we win a majority of seats in _ respect that. he has said that if we win a majority of seats in this - win a majority of seats in this general— win a majority of seats in this general election— win a majority of seats in this general election that - win a majority of seats in this - general election that strengthens the demand — general election that strengthens the demand for— general election that strengthens the demand for us _ general election that strengthens the demand for us to _ general election that strengthens the demand for us to move - general election that strengthens l the demand for us to move forward and negotiate — the demand for us to move forward and negotiate a _ the demand for us to move forward and negotiate a move _ the demand for us to move forward and negotiate a move towards - and negotiate a move towards independence. _ and negotiate a move towards independence. i'm— and negotiate a move towards independence. i'm not- and negotiate a move towards independence. i'm not going i and negotiate a move towardsi independence. i'm not going to and negotiate a move towards - independence. i'm not going to stand here as _ independence. i'm not going to stand here as the _ independence. i'm not going to stand here as the snp— independence. i'm not going to stand here as the snp campaign _ independence. i'm not going to stand here as the snp campaign director. here as the snp campaign director and tell— here as the snp campaign director and tell you — here as the snp campaign director and tell you anything _ here as the snp campaign director and tell you anything other- here as the snp campaign director and tell you anything other that i here as the snp campaign director| and tell you anything other that we are trying _ and tell you anything other that we are trying to — and tell you anything other that we are trying to win— and tell you anything other that we are trying to win that _ and tell you anything other that we are trying to win that election. - are trying to win that election. every— are trying to win that election. every teader— are trying to win that election. every leader expects- are trying to win that election. every leader expects tough - are trying to win that election. - every leader expects tough questions and i every leader expects tough questions and i think— every leader expects tough questions and i think he dealt with those difficult — and i think he dealt with those difficult questions with humility. he recognised where mistakes were made _ he recognised where mistakes were made he _ he recognised where mistakes were made. he and the party have learned from those _ made. he and the party have learned from those mistakes. that's why in the ambitious manifesto we have set out in _ the ambitious manifesto we have set out in this— the ambitious manifesto we have set out in this election, health and care _ out in this election, health and care front _ out in this election, health and care front and centre, everything is costed _ care front and centre, everything is costed and — care front and centre, everything is costed and deliverable so we don't make _ costed and deliverable so we don't make those mistakes again. david, the best of times _ make those mistakes again. david, the best of times and _ make those mistakes again. david, the best of times and the - make those mistakes again. david, the best of times and the worst - make those mistakes again. david, the best of times and the worst ofl the best of times and the worst of times, who had them in that debate? firstly, it worked very well for the public. people were smiling, if not laughing at the prime minister, whereas they treated keir starmer as if he was already prime minister. that was the big difference. something about what we were saying earlier, it's interesting how often keir starmer talks about entitlement and returning to public service. he said it in the manifesto launch and again tonight. i know people are angry in the country but may be a way of addressing that anger... let's say in two weeks' time labour have won, which seems likely. people are asking, what is the country going to feel like? not like it was under new labour and things can only get better but the mood of the country might be different to where we think it will be. i think it might be more positive than we think. ~ �* . , , think. we've heard some pretty stunnin: think. we've heard some pretty stunning opinion _ think. we've heard some pretty stunning opinion polls - think. we've heard some pretty stunning opinion polls with - stunning opinion polls with different stories in terms of the tory support. different stories in terms of the tory smart-— different stories in terms of the to su ort. . ., ., �* different stories in terms of the to su ort. . ., �* . tory support. one man who wasn't at the debate tonight, _ tory support. one man who wasn't at the debate tonight, nigel— tory support. one man who wasn't at the debate tonight, nigel farage, - the debate tonight, nigel farage, who ism — the debate tonight, nigel farage, who ism he— the debate tonight, nigel farage, who is... . the debate tonight, nigel farage, who is... , . who is... he will be at the debate on friday night. _ who is... he will be at the debate on friday night. where _ who is... he will be at the debate on friday night. where i - who is... he will be at the debate| on friday night. where i disagree, i think niel on friday night. where i disagree, i think nigel farage _ on friday night. where i disagree, i think nigel farage is _ on friday night. where i disagree, i think nigel farage is building - think nigel farage is building sopport— think nigel farage is building sopport on— think nigel farage is building sopport on the _ think nigel farage is building support on the back - think nigel farage is building support on the back of - think nigel farage is building support on the back of that l think nigel farage is building - support on the back of that cynicism and apathy~ — support on the back of that cynicism and apathy. keir— support on the back of that cynicism and apathy. keir starmer— support on the back of that cynicism and apathy. keir starmer might- support on the back of that cynicism | and apathy. keir starmer might have had a _ and apathy. keir starmer might have had a bit _ and apathy. keir starmer might have had a bit longer, _ and apathy. keir starmer might have had a bit longer, should he - and apathy. keir starmer might have had a bit longer, should he becomei had a bit longer, should he become prime _ had a bit longer, should he become prime minister, _ had a bit longer, should he become prime minister, to— had a bit longer, should he become prime minister, to build _ had a bit longer, should he become prime minister, to build back- had a bit longer, should he become prime minister, to build back trusti prime minister, to build back trust if he prime minister, to build back trust it he was _ prime minister, to build back trust it he was just — prime minister, to build back trust if he was just facing _ prime minister, to build back trust if he was just facing the _ prime minister, to build back trust if he was just facing the tory- prime minister, to build back trust if he was just facing the tory party| if he was just facing the tory party 'ust if he was just facing the tory party just beaten — if he was just facing the tory party just beaten it _ if he was just facing the tory party just beaten. it seems _ if he was just facing the tory party just beaten. it seems more - if he was just facing the tory party just beaten. it seems more likelyi if he was just facing the tory party. just beaten. it seems more likely he will be _ just beaten. it seems more likely he will be facing — just beaten. it seems more likely he will be facing nigel— just beaten. it seems more likely he will be facing nigel farage. - just beaten. it seems more likely he will be facing nigel farage. the - will be facing nigel farage. the problem — will be facing nigel farage. the problem of— will be facing nigel farage. the problem of the _ will be facing nigel farage. the problem of the tories - will be facing nigel farage. the problem of the tories could - will be facing nigel farage. the - problem of the tories could quickly become _ problem of the tories could quickly become a — problem of the tories could quickly become a problem _ problem of the tories could quickly become a problem for— problem of the tories could quickly become a problem for labour- problem of the tories could quickly become a problem for labour in i become a problem for labour in government _ become a problem for labour in government dr— become a problem for labour in government-— become a problem for labour in covernment. . , . ., ., government. a situation now where the are government. a situation now where they are talking _ government. a situation now where they are talking about _ government. a situation now where they are talking about bring - government. a situation now where they are talking about bring out - they are talking about bring out resources from candidates where they don't believe they can win which has brought angerfrom don't believe they can win which has brought anger from the candidates. you used to work for boris. was it a mistake not to use him? interesting, i'm not convinced _ mistake not to use him? interesting, i'm not convinced it _ mistake not to use him? interesting, i'm not convinced it was _ mistake not to use him? interesting, i'm not convinced it was a _ mistake not to use him? interesting, i'm not convinced it was a decision i i'm not convinced it was a decision that they— i'm not convinced it was a decision that they could or couldn't make. we all know— that they could or couldn't make. we all know that boris is off doing other— all know that boris is off doing other things, all know that boris is off doing otherthings, he has had all know that boris is off doing other things, he has had a big trirthday— other things, he has had a big birthday this week, plenty of holidays, speeches abroad. surprising the election on him and everyone — surprising the election on him and everyone else probably meant it was very difficult to schedule. he has started _ very difficult to schedule. he has started up— very difficult to schedule. he has started up a side business of many videos _ started up a side business of many videos for— started up a side business of many videos for candidates where he endorses— videos for candidates where he endorses people where he does a video— endorses people where he does a video on— endorses people where he does a video on a — endorses people where he does a video on a phone.— video on a phone. actors do that kind of thing _ video on a phone. actors do that kind of thing to _ video on a phone. actors do that kind of thing to get _ video on a phone. actors do that kind of thing to get paid. - video on a phone. actors do that kind of thing to get paid. he - kind of thing to get paid. he does these videos _ kind of thing to get paid. he does these videos that _ kind of thing to get paid. he does these videos that are _ kind of thing to get paid. he does these videos that are very - these videos that are very effective. he's done them for years. people _ effective. he's done them for years. people he _ effective. he's done them for years. people he has chosen or his publishers have chosen now to announce his book which is coming out in the autumn. i want to show the audience. honestly, unleashed, what is the idea of blacking out his face and having the white hair? going back to the campaign i worked with him _ going back to the campaign i worked with him on, the 2008 campaign for london _ with him on, the 2008 campaign for london mayor. we did win as well. if you took— london mayor. we did win as well. if you took back — london mayor. we did win as well. if you look back at the branding, it was in _ you look back at the branding, it was in his— you look back at the branding, it was in his face, it was his hair and him watking — was in his face, it was his hair and him walking along with a bike and the slightly oversized suit. it was to celebrate —— it was the silhouette that was his trademark so they have _ silhouette that was his trademark so they have gone with that. what is more _ they have gone with that. what is more brave is committing to a date. boris _ more brave is committing to a date. boris is _ more brave is committing to a date. boris is traditionally late for everything. he was often late for interviews, he hasn't delivered a trook— interviews, he hasn't delivered a book on— interviews, he hasn't delivered a book on time that i'm aware of and i think— book on time that i'm aware of and i think they— book on time that i'm aware of and i think they are brave! we book on time that i'm aware of and i think they are brave!— think they are brave! we are all smilin: think they are brave! we are all smiling about _ think they are brave! we are all smiling about boris _ think they are brave! we are all smiling about boris johnson. i l smiling about borisjohnson. i think a lot of people in the country are not smiling because of what he did when he was prime minister. it's important to say that. there's a long colourful tradition of our newapapers papers swinging in behind their political favourites in an election — who can forget the sun headline "it was the sun wot won it" when the paper claimed it got the tories over the line? but does it matter any more? music: house of the rising sun by the animals # there is a house in new orleans # they call the rising sun # and it's been the ruin of many a poor boy # and god, i know i'm one.# david, of all people, you came in in 1998. tony blair was thrilled to have the support of rupert murdoch on the sun. does it matter as much any more? it on the sun. does it matter as much any more?— any more? it doesn't, if the sun were to back _ any more? it doesn't, if the sun were to back keir— any more? it doesn't, if the sun were to back keir starmer. .. - any more? it doesn't, if the sun. were to back keir starmer. .. they are auoin were to back keir starmer. .. they are going to _ were to back keir starmer. .. they are going to make _ were to back keir starmer. .. they are going to make an _ were to back keir starmer... they are going to make an announcement. looking at what the paper are doing everyday, it is so critical. it is like they are going to gate—crash a party they aren't invited to. i feel like we are going through the motions. i heard a senior shadow cabinet members saying that if this unpacks them they should say no, we don't want your backing. —— if the sun backs them they should say no. do you think it matters what is in the social media, the newspapers? we can talk about influencers. it is can talk about influencers. it is interesting _ can talk about influencers. it is interesting in _ can talk about influencers. it is interesting in this _ can talk about influencers. it is interesting in this election that the parties _ interesting in this election that the parties are _ interesting in this election that the parties are investing - interesting in this election that the parties are investing in- interesting in this election that i the parties are investing in tiktok and campaigning— the parties are investing in tiktok and campaigning there. _ the parties are investing in tiktok| and campaigning there. mine craft videos _ and campaigning there. mine craft videos as— and campaigning there. mine craft videos as wett~ _ and campaigning there. mine craft videos as well. there _ and campaigning there. mine craft videos as well. there is _ and campaigning there. mine craft videos as well. there is a - and campaigning there. mine craft videos as well. there is a more . videos as well. there is a more diffuse — videos as well. there is a more diffuse media _ videos as well. there is a more diffuse media market. - videos as well. there is a more diffuse media market. a- videos as well. there is a more diffuse media market. a lot - videos as well. there is a more diffuse media market. a lot of| diffuse media market. a lot of people — diffuse media market. a lot of people get— diffuse media market. a lot of people get their _ diffuse media market. a lot of people get their news - diffuse media market. a lot of people get their news from i diffuse media market. a lot of. people get their news from social media _ people get their news from social media it — people get their news from social media it is — people get their news from social media. it is more _ people get their news from social media. it is more important i people get their news from social media. it is more important as. people get their news from social media. it is more important as ai media. it is more important as a vibe _ media. it is more important as a vibe signat— media. it is more important as a vibe signal to— media. it is more important as a vibe signal to the _ media. it is more important as a vibe signal to the public- media. it is more important as a vibe signal to the public rather. vibe signal to the public rather than _ vibe signal to the public rather than influencing _ vibe signal to the public rather than influencing the _ vibe signal to the public rather than influencing the votes. ini vibe signal to the public rather- than influencing the votes. in terms of the _ than influencing the votes. in terms of the switch — than influencing the votes. in terms of the switch as _ than influencing the votes. in terms of the switch as it _ than influencing the votes. in terms of the switch as it may— than influencing the votes. in terms of the switch as it may get - than influencing the votes. in terms of the switch as it may get more i of the switch as it may get more permission _ of the switch as it may get more permission to _ of the switch as it may get more permission to feel— of the switch as it may get more permission to feel that - of the switch as it may get more permission to feel that they i of the switch as it may get more permission to feel that they can| of the switch as it may get more i permission to feel that they can go over with _ permission to feel that they can go over with the — permission to feel that they can go over with the sun. _ permission to feel that they can go over with the sun.— over with the sun. what do you think, over with the sun. what do you think. jo? _ over with the sun. what do you think. jo? who _ over with the sun. what do you think, 10? who would _ over with the sun. what do you think, 10? who would be - over with the sun. what do you think, 10? who would be your l over with the sun. what do you i think, 10? who would be your dream think, jo? who would be your dream person to have endorsed the tories? david attenborough, claudia winkleman, jude bellingham? is there somebody who can cut through with a lot of age groups? i somebody who can cut through with a lot of age grows?— lot of age groups? i don't know. workin: lot of age groups? i don't know. working with — lot of age groups? i don't know. working with boris _ lot of age groups? i don't know. working with boris we _ lot of age groups? i don't know. working with boris we actually l lot of age groups? i don't know. l working with boris we actually got the sun _ working with boris we actually got the sun backing him. very grand, partiament— the sun backing him. very grand, parliament square on the sun bass, it was— parliament square on the sun bass, it was such — parliament square on the sun bass, it was such a — parliament square on the sun bass, it was such a strange day but it was back in— it was such a strange day but it was back in the — it was such a strange day but it was back in the day when that kind of thing _ back in the day when that kind of thing seems to matter. but i don't know, _ thing seems to matter. but i don't know, people veer away from getting involved _ know, people veer away from getting involved in _ know, people veer away from getting involved in politics now. they don't really _ involved in politics now. they don't really want — involved in politics now. they don't really want to be associated with politics _ really want to be associated with politics because they worry about being _ politics because they worry about being on — politics because they worry about being on... i'm not sure about some of the _ being on... i'm not sure about some of the coot— being on... i'm not sure about some of the cool britannia things, but now they— of the cool britannia things, but now they are keen to get away from that and _ now they are keen to get away from that and say

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