the invitation was for leaders or leading figures to take part, and tonight, the seven debaters are... for the conservatives, the leader of the house of commons, penny mordaunt. the leader of reform uk, nigel farage. labour's deputy leader, angela rayner. rhun ap iorwerth, the leader of plaid cymru — the party of wales. carla denyer, co—leader of the green party in england and wales. the liberal democrats�* deputy leader, daisy cooper. and the scottish national party's westminster leader, stephen flynn. applause the parties drew lots to decide their position on stage. and they stand before an audience chosen by the pollsters savanta. they come from many different backgrounds, reflecting voters from across great britain. they include supporters of the seven parties, as well as some undecided voters. they may come to this with strong views, orfind themselves persuaded by something they hear from the stage. and the questions you will hear in the next 90 minutes will come from that audience. time will go fast — we need to make sure all seven of you get your say and there will be times i move you on or call a halt. journalists and other representatives of the parties are gathered in our spin room, where there will be reaction to the live debate. and so to the first of tonight's questions. comes from francisco dotjessiman. as we celebrate d—day and remember those _ as we celebrate d—day and remember those like _ as we celebrate d—day and remember those like my— as we celebrate d—day and remember those like my father— as we celebrate d—day and remember those like my father and _ as we celebrate d—day and remember those like my father and so _ as we celebrate d—day and remember those like my father and so many- those like my father and so many others _ those like my father and so many others who — those like my father and so many others who served _ those like my father and so many others who served this _ those like my father and so many others who served this country. those like my father and so manyi others who served this country so well, _ others who served this country so well, how— others who served this country so well, how will_ others who served this country so well, how will the _ others who served this country so well, how will the parties - others who served this country so well, how will the parties ensure i well, how will the parties ensure our army— well, how will the parties ensure our army is— well, how will the parties ensure our army is ready— well, how will the parties ensure our army is ready and _ well, how will the parties ensure our army is ready and our- well, how will the parties ensure i our army is ready and our country is safe from _ our army is ready and our country is safe from another— our army is ready and our country is safe from another major— our army is ready and our country is safe from another major conflict? . safe from another major conflict? thank _ safe from another major conflict? thank you. — safe from another major conflict? thank you. and_ safe from another major conflict? thank you, and let _ safe from another major conflict? thank you, and let me _ safe from another major conflict? thank you, and let me turn- safe from another major conflict? thank you, and let me turn first i safe from another major conflict? | thank you, and let me turn first to angela rayner, for labour.- angela rayner, for labour. thank ou, and angela rayner, for labour. thank you. and thank— angela rayner, for labour. thank you, and thank you _ angela rayner, for labour. thank you, and thank you to _ angela rayner, for labour. thank you, and thank you to all- angela rayner, for labour. thank you, and thank you to all those i you, and thank you to all those that have served in our armed forces and continue to do so, in what is a very insecure world at the moment. first of all, labour is committed to the triple lock on nuclear deterrence, especially in the climate that we are in, which means we will keep our nuclear deterrent, that we will make sure that the four submarines are built in barrow and we will continue with the upgrade. we will have a commitment to the 2.5% spending of gdp which obviously is very important and gdp which obviously is very importantand i gdp which obviously is very important and i think one of the other things that is a real scandal at the moment is our armed forces and the accommodation they are given, so we will look at that issue as well. we want to make sure everyone has secure, decent homes in the uk. ,, everyone has secure, decent homes in the uk. _ , ., the uk. daisy cooper for the liberal democrats? — the uk. daisy cooper for the liberal democrats? the _ the uk. daisy cooper for the liberal democrats? the liberal _ the uk. daisy cooper for the liberal democrats? the liberal democrats| the uk. daisy cooper for the liberal. democrats? the liberal democrats are the -a of democrats? the liberal democrats are the party of paddy _ democrats? the liberal democrats are the party of paddy ashdown _ democrats? the liberal democrats are the party of paddy ashdown so - democrats? the liberal democrats are the party of paddy ashdown so we - the party of paddy ashdown so we take defence very seriously so first of all _ take defence very seriously so first of all we _ take defence very seriously so first of all we would maintain the nuclear delerrehl_ of all we would maintain the nuclear deterrent we have, an absolute priority— deterrent we have, an absolute priority for— deterrent we have, an absolute priority for us is reversing the cuts _ priority for us is reversing the cuts to— priority for us is reversing the cuts to our— priority for us is reversing the cuts to our troops of 10,000, which has happened under the conservatives stop we _ has happened under the conservatives stop we would increase spending on defence. _ stop we would increase spending on defence, year on year, in the next parliament, — defence, year on year, in the next parliament, with the ambition of reaching — parliament, with the ambition of reaching 2.5% by the end of the next parliament — reaching 2.5% by the end of the next parliament. having decent homes for our veterans and for our armed forces— our veterans and for our armed forces is— our veterans and for our armed forces is incredibly important. i'm very proud — forces is incredibly important. i'm very proud of the fact it was a liberal— very proud of the fact it was a liberal democrat amendment that tried to _ liberal democrat amendment that tried to make sure we had every single _ tried to make sure we had every single home met the decent homes standard, _ single home met the decent homes standard, it was only because of the general— standard, it was only because of the general election that legislation fell but — general election that legislation fell but it is a priority for us. nigel— fell but it is a priority for us. nigel farage? we fell but it is a priority for us. nigel farage?_ fell but it is a priority for us. nigel farage? fell but it is a priority for us. niuuelfarae? ., ,, ,, nigel farage? we are spending less on defence than _ nigel farage? we are spending less on defence than we _ nigel farage? we are spending less on defence than we were _ nigel farage? we are spending less on defence than we were in - nigel farage? we are spending less on defence than we were in the - nigel farage? we are spending less on defence than we were in the last| on defence than we were in the last labour government pro rata, the army has shrunk, recruitment is catastrophic, so rather than having a weird concept of national service, where 30,000 youngsters would do a year, we need to recruit 30,000 people into the army full time and, yes, the veterans point has been made already, respect our veterans including those with the average age of 100 who were deserted by the prime minister in normandy yesterday, which i think was a complete and utter disgrace and shows us we actually have a very unpatriotic prime minister. it was dreadful. a, ., unpatriotic prime minister. it was dreadful. ., , ., , dreadful. mordaunt, can you respond to that, rishi — dreadful. mordaunt, can you respond to that, rishi sunak _ dreadful. mordaunt, can you respond to that, rishi sunak leaving - dreadful. mordaunt, can you respond to that, rishi sunak leaving the - to that, rishi sunak leaving the commemorations before the end of the day? commemorations before the end of the da ? ~ . commemorations before the end of the da ? . ., ., ,, commemorations before the end of the da? ., , , day? what happened was completely wron: and day? what happened was completely wrong and the _ day? what happened was completely wrong and the prime _ day? what happened was completely wrong and the prime minister - day? what happened was completely wrong and the prime minister has - wrong and the prime minister has rightly— wrong and the prime minister has rightly apologised for that, apologised to veterans but also to all of _ apologised to veterans but also to all of us _ apologised to veterans but also to all of us because he was representing all of us. i'm from portsmouth, i've also been defence secretary. _ portsmouth, i've also been defence secretary, and my wish at the end of this week— secretary, and my wish at the end of this week is — secretary, and my wish at the end of this week is that all of our veterans— this week is that all of our veterans feel completely treasured and i'm _ veterans feel completely treasured and i'm hoping tonight to convince you of— and i'm hoping tonight to convince you of some things that are important to them, important to their— important to them, important to their legacy, and i couldn't do that if i their legacy, and i couldn't do that if i wasn't — their legacy, and i couldn't do that if i wasn't straight with you on that— if i wasn't straight with you on that issue _ if i wasn't straight with you on that issue-— if i wasn't straight with you on that issue. would you have left d-day early? _ that issue. would you have left d-day early? l _ that issue. would you have left d-day early? i didn't _ that issue. would you have left d-day early? i didn't go - that issue. would you have left d-day early? i didn't go to - that issue. would you have left . d-day early? i didn't go to d-day, that issue. would you have left - d-day early? i didn't go to d-day, i think what happened _ d-day early? i didn't go to d-day, i think what happened was _ d-day early? i didn't go to d-day, i think what happened was very - d-day early? i didn't go to d-day, i i think what happened was very wrong, ithink— think what happened was very wrong, i think the _ think what happened was very wrong, i think the prime minister has apologised for that but what i also think it _ apologised for that but what i also think it is — apologised for that but what i also think it is important is we honour their— think it is important is we honour their legacy. they fought for our freedom — their legacy. they fought for our freedom. unless we are spending the film freedom. unless we are spending the right amount on defence we can't honour— right amount on defence we can't honour that legacy. the baseline for our equipment programme is 2.5%. if you are _ our equipment programme is 2.5%. if you are not _ our equipment programme is 2.5%. if you are not committed to spending that over— you are not committed to spending that over the period it needs to be spent, _ that over the period it needs to be spent. you — that over the period it needs to be spent, you are not funding defence, and i_ spent, you are not funding defence, and i have _ spent, you are not funding defence, and i have tojust mention also the cornerstone — and i have tojust mention also the cornerstone of our is our nuclear deterrent — cornerstone of our is our nuclear deterrent and you need more than submarines, sailors and warheads to deliver— submarines, sailors and warheads to deliver that — submarines, sailors and warheads to deliver that. you need credibility and its _ deliver that. you need credibility and its too — deliver that. you need credibility and its too late for labour on credibility. angela rayner voted recently. — credibility. angela rayner voted recently, along with the guy that wants— recently, along with the guy that wants to — recently, along with the guy that wants to be your foreign secretary and half— wants to be your foreign secretary and half the labour front bench, to end our— and half the labour front bench, to end our nuclear deterrent and you are doubting they would use that, she might be prime minister in four or five _ she might be prime minister in four or five years' time. if you are doubting _ or five years' time. if you are doubting that she or david lammy keir starmer would use that, imagine putin is— keir starmer would use that, imagine putin is thinking. without credibility, we become a target. if we become a target, you are less safe _ we become a target, you are less safe it's — we become a target, you are less safe. it's too late for this generation of labour politicians. that credibility is shot. do not vote _ that credibility is shot. do not vote these people in.- that credibility is shot. do not vote these people in. angela rayner, would ou vote these people in. angela rayner, would you like _ vote these people in. angela rayner, would you like to _ vote these people in. angela rayner, would you like to respond _ vote these people in. angela rayner, would you like to respond to - vote these people in. angela rayner, would you like to respond to that? i would you like to respond to that? penny, you can keep pointing at me but you are the party that crashed the economy and left is in a real mess, i am absolutely clear we will keep our nuclear deterrent and we will invest in it. it keep our nuclear deterrent and we will invest in it.— will invest in it. it doesn't matter. _ will invest in it. it doesn't matter. you _ will invest in it. it doesn't matter, you are - will invest in it. it doesn't matter, you are preparedj will invest in it. it doesn't i matter, you are prepared to will invest in it. it doesn't _ matter, you are prepared to spend... it matter, you are prepared to spend... it doesn't _ matter, you are prepared to spend... it doesn't matter how many submarines... it doesn't matter how many submarines. . ._ it doesn't matter how many submarines... if yourfoe does submarines... if your foe does not believe you submarines... if yourfoe does not believe you will use these weapons _ not believe you will use these weapons the deterrent is gone and that is— weapons the deterrent is gone and that is the — weapons the deterrent is gone and that is the position you are in. it's that is the position you are in. it's serious _ that is the position you are in. it's serious stuff.— that is the position you are in. it's serious stuff. we've become a lau~ahin it's serious stuff. we've become a laughing stop _ it's serious stuff. we've become a laughing stop internationally - laughing stop internationally because of your party. keir starmer changed the labour party. we are very clear on our number one priority, very clear on our number one priority. ...— very clear on our number one riori ,... , priority, let me bring in some more parties _ priority, let me bring in some more parties on _ priority, let me bring in some more parties on this _ priority, let me bring in some more parties on this question. i priority, let me bring in some| more parties on this question. my more parties on this question. ij�*i: brother more parties on this question. m: brother served in more parties on this question. m; brother served in iraq, i won't be lectured on whether or not i am absolutely committed to the security force like the question, the question was how will the parties ensure our army is ready and our country is safe from another conflict. . . , , ., country is safe from another conflict. ., ., , , ., ., conflict. carla denyer, how would the green party _ conflict. carla denyer, how would the green party ensure _ conflict. carla denyer, how would the green party ensure that? - conflict. carla denyer, how would| the green party ensure that? first of all i the green party ensure that? first of all i want _ the green party ensure that? first of all i want to _ the green party ensure that? first of all i want to say _ the green party ensure that? first of all i want to say we _ the green party ensure that? first of all i want to say we all- the green party ensure that? first of all i want to say we all owe a huge _ of all i want to say we all owe a huge debt— of all i want to say we all owe a huge debt to our veterans, from d-day_ huge debt to our veterans, from d-day and — huge debt to our veterans, from d—day and conflict since and it's a tragedy— d—day and conflict since and it's a tragedy that so many veteran struggle in life, their high rates of homelessness and that is something that's a high priority for ntyself_ something that's a high priority for myself and the greens to tackle. in terms _ myself and the greens to tackle. in terms of— myself and the greens to tackle. in terms of defence more broadly, this election— terms of defence more broadly, this election is— terms of defence more broadly, this election is about choosing what kind of country _ election is about choosing what kind of country we want to be, and of course _ of country we want to be, and of course part— of country we want to be, and of course part of that is security. we live in _ course part of that is security. we live in uncertain and dangerous times— live in uncertain and dangerous times with war on our european trorders— times with war on our european borders and major threats from cyber attacks _ borders and major threats from cyber attacks that don't care about geographical boundaries. the threats should _ geographical boundaries. the threats should not— geographical boundaries. the threats should not be underestimated. but the biggest threat facing the uk and the biggest threat facing the uk and the world _ the biggest threat facing the uk and the world is change and military, interestingly, are taking this threat — interestingly, are taking this threat extremely seriously because they know — threat extremely seriously because they know @ in threat extremely seriously because they know @ in answer to the auestion they know @ in answer to the question how _ they know @ in answer to the question how would - they know @ in answer to the question how would you - they know @ in answer to the question how would you are l they know @ in answer to the - question how would you are unsure our army is ready do you not want to see the size of the army grow and defence spending go up to 2.5% of gdp? �* , defence spending go up to 2.5% of gdp? �*, ., ., 4' defence spending go up to 2.5% of gdp? �*, ., ., ~ ., defence spending go up to 2.5% of gdp? 3 ., , ., gdp? let's look at why we are talkin: gdp? let's look at why we are talking about _ gdp? let's look at why we are talking about that _ gdp? let's look at why we are talking about that number. . gdp? let's look at why we are talking about that number. asj talking about that number. as members of nato we are rightly asked to contribute a fair amount towards the defence budget, that's totally fair enough for nato to ask that the uk is _ fair enough for nato to ask that the uk is already contributing the 2% that nato— uk is already contributing the 2% that nato asks. that doesn't mean however— that nato asks. that doesn't mean however we couldn't be spending that money _ however we couldn't be spending that money more effectively and as greens we are _ money more effectively and as greens we are clear— money more effectively and as greens we are clear that investing in tackling _ we are clear that investing in tackling climate threat, the biggest threat _ tackling climate threat, the biggest threat facing the country, as militaries all over the world are already— militaries all over the world are already doing because they recognise that if— already doing because they recognise that if not— already doing because they recognise that if not tackled adequately it will increase conflict over water, for example, increase famine and create _ for example, increase famine and create millions of refugees. let me turn to stephen _ create millions of refugees. let me turn to stephen flynn _ create millions of refugees. let me turn to stephen flynn of _ create millions of refugees. let me turn to stephen flynn of the - create millions of refugees. let me turn to stephen flynn of the snp. l turn to stephen flynn of the snp. the nuclear deterrent, the submarines, are based in scotland. you are against maintaining the nuclear deterrent.— you are against maintaining the nuclear deterrent. yes, absolutely, m -a nuclear deterrent. yes, absolutely, my party has _ nuclear deterrent. yes, absolutely, my party has had — nuclear deterrent. yes, absolutely, my party has had a _ nuclear deterrent. yes, absolutely, my party has had a long-standing l my party has had a long—standing tradition in respect of that because we believe the money can be better spent on conventional defence forces and what we've seen in europe over the course of recent years is how absolutely vital conventional defence forces are but may ijust to return to the original question thank frist for his father's contribution, we need to stand with our veterans and ensure our military is fully funded and we have more people serving and that we look after them when they become veterans and finally on the prime minister, a prime minister who puts his own political career before public service is no prime minister at all. a prime minister who puts his own political career before normandy war veterans is no prime minister at all. so it's incumbent upon all of us to do our national service and vote the tories out of office. rhun a . vote the tories out of office. rhun ap lorwerth _ vote the tories out of office. rhun ap lorwerth of _ vote the tories out of office. rhun ap lorwerth of plaid _ vote the tories out of office. rhun ap lorwerth of plaid cymru? - ap iorwerth of plaid cymru? yesterday was a sobering day again, remembering the sacrifice made on the beaches of normandy. it certainly _ the beaches of normandy. it certainly wasn't a day for staged photo _ certainly wasn't a day for staged photo ops, as we saw from nigel farage — photo ops, as we saw from nigel faraae. ., ., ., photo ops, as we saw from nigel farae. ., ., ., , photo ops, as we saw from nigel farate. ., ., ., , ., , farage. hang on a second, i raised £100,000 for — farage. hang on a second, i raised £100,000 for the _ farage. hang on a second, i raised £100,000 for the london - farage. hang on a second, i raised £100,000 for the london taxi - farage. hang on a second, i raised i £100,000 for the london taxi charity to send veterans back to normandy, that's why i was there. thank you. and it certainly wasn't a day for a prime _ and it certainly wasn't a day for a prime minister to decide, as stephen said, prime minister to decide, as stephen said. that _ prime minister to decide, as stephen said, that his priority should be to fi-ht said, that his priority should be to fight for— said, that his priority should be to fight for his — said, that his priority should be to fight for his own political future. we have — fight for his own political future. we have a — fight for his own political future. we have a proud record in wales of sending _ we have a proud record in wales of sending young men and women to the armed _ sending young men and women to the armed forces and we need to make sure that _ armed forces and we need to make sure that the armed forces are properly— sure that the armed forces are properly funded for conventional deterrence and peace keeping and we need to— deterrence and peace keeping and we need to look after those young people — need to look after those young people when they leave the armed forces— people when they leave the armed forces with so many problems in housing — forces with so many problems in housing and mental health issues and so on _ housing and mental health issues and so on but— housing and mental health issues and so on. but we don't build resilience conventional force by spending £200 trillion— conventional force by spending £200 billion on— conventional force by spending £200 billion on a _ conventional force by spending £200 billion on a new nuclear deterrent. thank— billion on a new nuclear deterrent. thank you. — billion on a new nuclear deterrent. thank you, penny mordaunt, to come back to you, clearly there has been a lot of comment already about the prime minister, indeed it amounting to no presence at all.— prime minister, indeed it amounting to no presence at all. amounting to? amountin: to no presence at all. amounting to? amounting to — to no presence at all. amounting to? amounting to no _ to no presence at all. amounting to? amounting to no presence _ to no presence at all. amounting to? amounting to no presence at - to no presence at all. amounting to? amounting to no presence at all - to no presence at all. amounting to? amounting to no presence at all on l amounting to no presence at all on d—day. how did you feel when he attended the british part of the event and other parts of the day but left the international event at the end of the day?— left the international event at the end of the day? what happened was ve wron: end of the day? what happened was very wrong and _ end of the day? what happened was very wrong and l'm _ end of the day? what happened was very wrong and i'm glad _ end of the day? what happened was very wrong and i'm glad the - end of the day? what happened was very wrong and i'm glad the prime l very wrong and i'm glad the prime minister— very wrong and i'm glad the prime minister has said that and apologised, he's apologised to veterans, but i think he also has apologised to everyone, because he was there _ apologised to everyone, because he was there representing us and what i hope is _ was there representing us and what i hope is that— was there representing us and what i hope is that our veterans will feel treasured — hope is that our veterans will feel treasured and their families will feel treasured at the end of this week _ feel treasured at the end of this week i— feel treasured at the end of this week. i don't want this issue to become — week. i don't want this issue to become a — week. i don't want this issue to become a political football, because ithink— become a political football, because i think that does them a disservice. it i think that does them a disservice. it already— i think that does them a disservice. it already is — i think that does them a disservice. it already is because the veterans are speaking out saying he's let the country down and to say it's a mistake, if his instinct was the same as the british people he would never have contemplated for a moment not being there for the big international ceremony. it shows how disconnected he is with the people of this country. he disconnected he is with the people of this country.— of this country. he has apologised and i would _ of this country. he has apologised and i would like... _ of this country. he has apologised and i would like... what _ of this country. he has apologised and i would like... what we saw i of this country. he has apologised i and i would like... what we saw from the prime minister _ and i would like... what we saw from the prime minister was _ and i would like. .. what we saw from the prime minister was panic- and i would like... what we saw from the prime minister was panic and - the prime minister was panic and it's the same pre—election panic that gave us that back of a fag packet plan for a new national service, which those in the armed forces have said that wouldn't be workable, let alone what it means about what the prime minister thinks of our young people in this country. let's be clear about what happened yesterday. — let's be clear about what happened yesterday. it— let's be clear about what happened yesterday. it was— let's be clear about what happened yesterday, it was not _ let's be clear about what happened yesterday, it was not only - yesterday, it was not only politically— yesterday, it was not only politically shameful - yesterday, it was not only politically shameful but. yesterday, it was not only - politically shameful but many of us feel personally— politically shameful but many of us feel personally quite _ politically shameful but many of us feel personally quite insulted. - politically shameful but many of us feel personally quite insulted. i- feel personally quite insulted. i started — feel personally quite insulted. i started yesterday _ feel personally quite insulted. i started yesterday morning - feel personally quite insulted. i- started yesterday morning watching a recording _ started yesterday morning watching a recording made — started yesterday morning watching a recording made try— started yesterday morning watching a recording made by the _ started yesterday morning watching a recording made by the royal- started yesterday morning watching a recording made by the royal mint - started yesterday morning watching a recording made by the royal mint ofl recording made by the royal mint of my late _ recording made by the royal mint of my late grandfather, _ recording made by the royal mint of my late grandfather, where - recording made by the royal mint of my late grandfather, where he - my late grandfather, where he recounts— my late grandfather, where he recounts catching _ my late grandfather, where he recounts catching his - my late grandfather, where he recounts catching his best - my late grandfather, where he i recounts catching his best friend who fell— recounts catching his best friend who fell from _ recounts catching his best friend who fell from the _ recounts catching his best friend who fell from the top _ recounts catching his best friend who fell from the top of- recounts catching his best friend who fell from the top of a - who fell from the top of a sherman tank who _ who fell from the top of a sherman tank who was — who fell from the top of a sherman tank who was shot _ who fell from the top of a sherman tank who was shot in _ who fell from the top of a sherman tank who was shot in the _ who fell from the top of a sherman tank who was shot in the head - who fell from the top of a sherman tank who was shot in the head and | who fell from the top of a sherman i tank who was shot in the head and as he waded _ tank who was shot in the head and as he waded through _ tank who was shot in the head and as he waded through the _ tank who was shot in the head and as he waded through the water- tank who was shot in the head and as he waded through the water he - he waded through the water he recounted. _ he waded through the water he recounted, in his— he waded through the water he recounted, in his words, - he waded through the water he recounted, in his words, men. he waded through the water he - recounted, in his words, men blown to pieces. _ recounted, in his words, men blown to pieces. hand. _ recounted, in his words, men blown to pieces, hand, legs _ recounted, in his words, men blown to pieces, hand, legs and _ recounted, in his words, men blown to pieces, hand, legs and heads. ifl to pieces, hand, legs and heads. if he had _ to pieces, hand, legs and heads. if he had been — to pieces, hand, legs and heads. if he had been there _ to pieces, hand, legs and heads. if he had been there yesterday- to pieces, hand, legs and heads. if he had been there yesterday and i to pieces, hand, legs and heads. if. he had been there yesterday and seen the prime _ he had been there yesterday and seen the prime minister— he had been there yesterday and seen the prime minister walk— he had been there yesterday and seen the prime minister walk away- he had been there yesterday and seen the prime minister walk away from - the prime minister walk away from him. _ the prime minister walk away from him. i_ the prime minister walk away from him. i would — the prime minister walk away from him, i would have _ the prime minister walk away from him, i would have found _ the prime minister walk away from him, i would have found that - him, i would have found that completely. _ him, i would have found that completely. as _ him, i would have found that completely, as i _ him, i would have found that completely, as i do - him, i would have found that completely, as i do now, - him, i would have found that| completely, as i do now, find him, i would have found that. completely, as i do now, find it completely— completely, as i do now, find it completely and _ completely, as i do now, find it completely and utterly - completely, as i do now, find it - completely and utterly unforgivable. thank you very much for the responses. that was our first question. let's turn to our second. i'm about to start studying medicine at the university of manchester. how will the party is in short i can graduate into a fully functioning nhs? ., ~ graduate into a fully functioning nhs? . ~,. . , graduate into a fully functioning nhs? .~r,, .. .,- . graduate into a fully functioning nhs? ., . , nhs? thank you. just about to start stud in: nhs? thank you. just about to start studying medicine _ nhs? thank you. just about to start studying medicine at _ studying medicine at manchester university. daisy cooper? first of all, reall university. daisy cooper? first of all. really good — university. daisy cooper? first of all, really good luck. _ university. daisy cooper? first of all, really good luck. i— university. daisy cooper? first of all, really good luck. i hope - university. daisy cooper? first of all, really good luck. i hope it - all, really good luck. i hope it goes incredibly well. we need lots of people signing up and studying to become our medics and nhs staff of the future. under the conservatives, the future. under the conservatives, the nhs has been driven into the ground. the lib dems have a clear plan of how to fix this. we will fix the front door to the nhs with 8000 more gps, giving you a guarantee of an appointment within seven days. we will put an end to dental deserts. we will have a health hub in every community. and we will deliver free personal care, meaning you can get the help you need when you need it. we can fix the back end of the nhs by making sure that if you need to leave hospital, there will be care. and the total cost of what you are planning? in and the total cost of what you are ”lannin ? ., ., , ., ., planning? in our manifesto, we have laid out how— planning? in our manifesto, we have laid out how every _ planning? in our manifesto, we have laid out how every pledge _ planning? in our manifesto, we have laid out how every pledge will - planning? in our manifesto, we have laid out how every pledge will be - laid out how every pledge will be funded. we've said across all our policies, we will not tax struggling families during the cost—of—living crisis, but we will look to those really big companies raking in billions in profits to support struggling families and fix our public services.— struggling families and fix our ublic services. ., , ., . ., , public services. health is of course a devolved — public services. health is of course a devolved issue, _ public services. health is of course a devolved issue, devolved - public services. health is of course a devolved issue, devolved to the | public services. health is of course i a devolved issue, devolved to the uk nations. stephen flynn, your party is in charge of health in scotland. it is a time of record weights, people waiting 12 hours or more for treatment in a&e. how would you make sure the questioner graduates to delete mike into a fully functioning nhs? ,., ., . ~ delete mike into a fully functioning nhs? a ., ., nhs? good luck. as someone who was under the care — nhs? good luck. as someone who was under the care of _ nhs? good luck. as someone who was under the care of the _ nhs? good luck. as someone who was under the care of the nhs _ nhs? good luck. as someone who was under the care of the nhs from - nhs? good luck. as someone who was under the care of the nhs from the - under the care of the nhs from the age of 111 to 32 because i was a disabled mind and i physically wouldn't be standing here today if it wasn't for the wonderful treatment i received on the nhs. i know what it is to live in chronic pain, and what it is to have that chronic pain removed. it is only thanks to the nhs that that happened, which is why in scotland we don'tjust have record funding and the best paid nursing staff, and no strikes. we have not got a single nhs strike in scotland, and we have some of the best performing nhs levels in scotland. since you are studying medicine, it is important to remind everyone in this audience the difference between the snp and other parties. in scotland, you wouldn't pay a single penny in tuition fees for your education. what a difference that would make to your education and your future. you do acce -t your education and your future. you do accept that _ your education and your future. you do accept that you have record waiting times for treatment at the moment, and that there are very high numbers of people waiting 211 months or waiting as long as 211 hours in a —— in or waiting as long as 211 hours in a -- in a&e or waiting as long as 211 hours in a —— in a&e sometimes. ida or waiting as long as 24 hours in a -- in a&e sometimes.— or waiting as long as 24 hours in a -- in a&e sometimes. no one would den the -- in a&e sometimes. no one would deny the crisis _ -- in a&e sometimes. no one would deny the crisis in _ -- in a&e sometimes. no one would deny the crisis in the _ -- in a&e sometimes. no one would deny the crisis in the nhs _ -- in a&e sometimes. no one would deny the crisis in the nhs across - deny the crisis in the nhs across these aisles, driven by two measures, one thing that, and the other the austerity agenda from the conservatives over the past 111 years. there are £18 billion of cuts coming down the line, agreed to by angela rayner and penny mordaunt. both parties know they will cut public sector funding. it will have a dramatic effect in the devolved nations, because as wes street inn said, when it comes to waiting times, all roads lead back to westminster. it is why the cuts coming down the line are not acceptable and why the labour party need to stay —— change their stance. angela rayner, cuts coming down the line? we angela rayner, cuts coming down the line? ~ ., ., , line? we would end the non-dom loop home so we — line? we would end the non-dom loop home so we could _ line? we would end the non-dom loop home so we could bring _ line? we would end the non-dom loop home so we could bring that _ line? we would end the non-dom loop home so we could bring that money - line? we would end the non-dom loop home so we could bring that money inl home so we could bring that money in and have _ home so we could bring that money in and have 40,000 new appointments every— and have 40,000 new appointments every week. you and have 40,000 new appointments eve week. ., . and have 40,000 new appointments every week-— every week. you are familiar with what stephen _ every week. you are familiar with what stephen is _ every week. you are familiar with what stephen is referring - every week. you are familiar with what stephen is referring to, - every week. you are familiar with what stephen is referring to, the | what stephen is referring to, the fsa and both parties are not being honest because of the need to bring down debt. . ~ honest because of the need to bring down debt. ., ,, , ., honest because of the need to bring down debt. . ~' , ., ., honest because of the need to bring down debt. ., ,, ,, ., , , down debt. thank you for studying in manchester- — down debt. thank you for studying in manchester- l— down debt. thank you for studying in manchester. i am _ down debt. thank you for studying in manchester. i am biased _ down debt. thank you for studying in manchester. i am biased but - down debt. thank you for studying in manchester. i am biased but i - manchester. i am biased but i would say to— manchester. i am biased but i would say to the _ manchester. i am biased but i would say to the greater city. i think there — say to the greater city. i think there was— say to the greater city. i think there was an issue that since the tories _ there was an issue that since the tories took— there was an issue that since the tories took power, i was a home care worker— tories took power, i was a home care worker and _ tories took power, i was a home care worker and i— tories took power, i was a home care worker and i represented public sector— worker and i represented public sector workers across the north west and nationally, and the decimation of the _ and nationally, and the decimation of the social care services and the infrastructure among community services — infrastructure among community services because not only left us without — services because not only left us without community care but it costs more _ without community care but it costs more in _ without community care but it costs more in the — without community care but it costs more in the nhs. fartoo many, especially— more in the nhs. fartoo many, especially the older generation. we've _ especially the older generation. we've been talking about d—day and our veterans. they are on trolleys for hours — our veterans. they are on trolleys for hours on — our veterans. they are on trolleys for hours on end not getting the care they— for hours on end not getting the care they need, but that cost more money. _ care they need, but that cost more money. so — care they need, but that cost more money, so we would put in home care services _ money, so we would put in home care services it— money, so we would put in home care services. it cost less, and we would have _ services. it cost less, and we would have 40,000 new appointments every week in— have 40,000 new appointments every week in the _ have 40,000 new appointments every week in the nhs by making sure we close _ week in the nhs by making sure we close that _ week in the nhs by making sure we close that non—dom tax loop hole. the non—dom loophole won't close. the non—dom loophole won't close. the £18 billion fiscal gap which the institute for fiscal studies says exist, there is a conspiracy of silence between the labour party and the conservatives. you need to explain to the public how you will close that gap without making nhs services worse. taste close that gap without making nhs services worse.— services worse. we were clear that we would look _ services worse. we were clear that we would look at _ services worse. we were clear that we would look at efficiencies - services worse. we were clear that we would look at efficiencies as - we would look at efficiencies as well _ we would look at efficiencies as well. technologies that could come in, well. technologies that could come in. we _ well. technologies that could come in. we know— well. technologies that could come in, we know that would help. we said about— in, we know that would help. we said about closing the non—dom tax loophole. — about closing the non—dom tax loophole, which would give more appointments, whether that is dentistry, gps and hospital appointments. we have a record number— appointments. we have a record number of— appointments. we have a record number of waiting list in the country— number of waiting list in the country now, and all roads lead to the tories and what they have done to our nhs — the tories and what they have done to our nhs. in the tories and what they have done to our nhs-— to our nhs. in portsmouth, we are about to have — to our nhs. in portsmouth, we are about to have a _ to our nhs. in portsmouth, we are about to have a dental _ to our nhs. in portsmouth, we are about to have a dental school - to our nhs. in portsmouth, we are about to have a dental school in i to our nhs. in portsmouth, we are| about to have a dental school in the medical— about to have a dental school in the medical school— about to have a dental school in the medical school very _ about to have a dental school in the medical school very shortly. - about to have a dental school in the medical school very shortly. good i medical school very shortly. good luck with — medical school very shortly. good luck with your _ medical school very shortly. good luck with your studies. _ medical school very shortly. good luck with your studies. your - medical school very shortly. good i luck with your studies. your future colleagues — luck with your studies. your future colleagues are _ luck with your studies. your future colleagues are currently— luck with your studies. your future colleagues are currently dealing i colleagues are currently dealing with an — colleagues are currently dealing with an increase _ colleagues are currently dealing with an increase in _ colleagues are currently dealing with an increase in nhs- colleagues are currently dealing with an increase in nhs work. colleagues are currently dealing i with an increase in nhs work load colleagues are currently dealing - with an increase in nhs work load of about 43%~ — with an increase in nhs work load of about 43%~ that _ with an increase in nhs work load of about 43%. that is _ with an increase in nhs work load of about 43%. that is the _ with an increase in nhs work load of about 43%. that is the legacy- with an increase in nhs work load of about 43%. that is the legacy of the| about 43%. that is the legacy of the pandemic— about 43%. that is the legacy of the pandemic that — about 43%. that is the legacy of the pandemic that we _ about 43%. that is the legacy of the pandemic that we have _ about 43%. that is the legacy of the pandemic that we have to _ about 43%. that is the legacy of the pandemic that we have to deal - about 43%. that is the legacy of the| pandemic that we have to deal with. there _ pandemic that we have to deal with. there are _ pandemic that we have to deal with. there are many— pandemic that we have to deal with. there are many things _ pandemic that we have to deal with. there are many things we _ pandemic that we have to deal with. there are many things we need - pandemic that we have to deal with. i there are many things we need to do, but there _ there are many things we need to do, but there are — there are many things we need to do, but there are two _ there are many things we need to do, but there are two really _ but there are two really important things _ but there are two really important things we — but there are two really important things we have _ but there are two really important things. we have to _ but there are two really important things. we have to keep- but there are two really important things. we have to keep the - but there are two really important i things. we have to keep the budget strong _ things. we have to keep the budget strong we — things. we have to keep the budget strong we need _ things. we have to keep the budget strong. we need a _ things. we have to keep the budget strong. we need a strong _ things. we have to keep the budget strong. we need a strong economyl things. we have to keep the budget i strong. we need a strong economy to do that. — strong. we need a strong economy to do that. and _ strong. we need a strong economy to do that, and public— strong. we need a strong economy to do that, and public spending - strong. we need a strong economy to do that, and public spending will- strong. we need a strong economy to do that, and public spending will go i do that, and public spending will go up, do that, and public spending will go up. and _ do that, and public spending will go up. and up— do that, and public spending will go up. and upfor— do that, and public spending will go up. and up forthe _ do that, and public spending will go up, and up forthe nhs— do that, and public spending will go up, and up for the nhs very- up, and up for the nhs very substantially. _ up, and up for the nhs very substantially. the _ up, and up for the nhs very substantially. the only- up, and up for the nhs very. substantially. the only people up, and up for the nhs very- substantially. the only people on this platform _ substantially. the only people on this platform who _ substantially. the only people on this platform who have _ substantially. the only people on this platform who have ever- substantially. the only people on i this platform who have ever cut nhs budget— this platform who have ever cut nhs budget are _ this platform who have ever cut nhs budget are labour. _ this platform who have ever cut nhs budget are labour. in _ this platform who have ever cut nhs budget are labour. in wales - this platform who have ever cut nhs budget are labour. in wales they . this platform who have ever cut nhs| budget are labour. in wales they cut their four— budget are labour. in wales they cut theirfourtimes, _ budget are labour. in wales they cut their four times, which— budget are labour. in wales they cut their four times, which is— budget are labour. in wales they cut their four times, which is why - budget are labour. in wales they cut their four times, which is why they. their four times, which is why they are waiting — their four times, which is why they are waiting lists _ their four times, which is why they are waiting lists are _ their four times, which is why they are waiting lists are four— their four times, which is why they are waiting lists are four times - are waiting lists are four times longer— are waiting lists are four times longer than _ are waiting lists are four times longer than they— are waiting lists are four times longer than they are _ are waiting lists are four times longer than they are in - are waiting lists are four times i longer than they are in england. are waiting lists are four times - longer than they are in england. the second _ longer than they are in england. the second thing — longer than they are in england. the second thing we _ longer than they are in england. the second thing we need _ longer than they are in england. the second thing we need to _ longer than they are in england. the second thing we need to do - longer than they are in england. the second thing we need to do is - second thing we need to do is increase — second thing we need to do is increase the _ second thing we need to do is increase the number- second thing we need to do is increase the number of- second thing we need to do is| increase the number of health second thing we need to do is - increase the number of health care professionals — increase the number of health care professionals we _ increase the number of health care professionals we have. _ increase the number of health care professionals we have. we - increase the number of health care professionals we have. we have i increase the number of health care . professionals we have. we have been doing _ professionals we have. we have been doing that _ professionals we have. we have been doing that we — professionals we have. we have been doing that. we have _ professionals we have. we have been doing that. we have 70,000 - professionals we have. we have been doing that. we have 70,000 more i doing that. we have 70,000 more nurses. _ doing that. we have 70,000 more nurses. for— doing that. we have 70,000 more nurses, for example, _ doing that. we have 70,000 more nurses, for example, but - doing that. we have 70,000 more nurses, for example, but we needj doing that. we have 70,000 more i nurses, for example, but we need to retain— nurses, for example, but we need to retain people — nurses, for example, but we need to retain people in _ nurses, for example, but we need to retain people in the _ nurses, for example, but we need to retain people in the service. - nurses, for example, but we need to retain people in the service. we - retain people in the service. we have _ retain people in the service. we have to — retain people in the service. we have to take _ retain people in the service. we have to take the _ retain people in the service. we have to take the stress - retain people in the service. we have to take the stress of- retain people in the service. we i have to take the stress of people, but we _ have to take the stress of people, but we also — have to take the stress of people, but we also have _ have to take the stress of people, but we also have to _ have to take the stress of people, but we also have to remove - have to take the stress of people, i but we also have to remove barriers. do you _ but we also have to remove barriers. do you acknowledge _ but we also have to remove barriers. do you acknowledge that _ but we also have to remove barriers. do you acknowledge that the - but we also have to remove barriers. i do you acknowledge that the pandemic is not completely part of waiting lists? ., ,, ., ., , ., lists? professionals leaving the service will _ lists? professionals leaving the service will lead _ lists? professionals leaving the service will lead to _ lists? professionals leaving the service will lead to more - lists? professionals leaving the | service will lead to more waiting list. ., ., , ., list. you said we needed a strong economy but _ list. you said we needed a strong economy but you _ list. you said we needed a strong economy but you backed - list. you said we needed a strong economy but you backed liz - list. you said we needed a strong l economy but you backed liz truss. you made people redundant in the home _ you made people redundant in the home care — you made people redundant in the home care service.— you made people redundant in the home care service. even liz truss on her birthday — home care service. even liz truss on her birthday recognise _ home care service. even liz truss on her birthday recognise that - home care service. even liz truss on her birthday recognise that we - home care service. even liz truss on her birthday recognise that we need | her birthday recognise that we need a nuclear— her birthday recognise that we need a nuclear deterrent _ her birthday recognise that we need a nuclear deterrent in _ her birthday recognise that we need a nuclear deterrent in this _ her birthday recognise that we need a nuclear deterrent in this country. i a nuclear deterrent in this country. and so— a nuclear deterrent in this country. and so do— a nuclear deterrent in this country. and so do i — a nuclear deterrent in this country. and so do i trite— a nuclear deterrent in this country. and so do l— and so do i. we need to hear from more parties- _ and so do i. we need to hear from more parties. we _ and so do i. we need to hear from more parties. we are _ and so do i. we need to hear from more parties. we are going - and so do i. we need to hear from more parties. we are going to - and so do i. we need to hear from more parties. we are going to go l and so do i. we need to hear from. more parties. we are going to go to rhun ap iorwerth next. mt; more parties. we are going to go to rhun ap lorwerth next.— rhun ap lorwerth next. my life may be in our rhun ap lorwerth next. my life may be in your hands _ rhun ap lorwerth next. my life may be in your hands one _ rhun ap lorwerth next. my life may be in your hands one day. - rhun ap lorwerth next. my life may be in your hands one day. good - rhun ap lorwerth next. my life may| be in your hands one day. good luck studying medicine i do hope you enjoy it. hopefully what i say will have relevance for people wherever they are in the uk. i think one thing you want is an assurance about what kind of nhs we will have in future. my party is absolutely clear. the nhs should and must remain free at the point of need. another key principle for me and plaid cymru is that no prophet should be taken out of the nhs. we will not consider ever privatising the nhs, something that of course the nhs, something that of course the conservatives want to do, but remarkably labour are happy to see privatisation within the nhs as well. in wales we have had a double whammy. we've had the impact of the cuts of austerity that absolutely comes down to hitting public services, education, health and everything, plus a very badly managed nhs by labour in wales. i want to point out that you are in a corporate —— you were in a corporation agreement with welsh labour and you have record waiting lists. �* ,, ., , ., ., lists. and the nhs was in no way a art of lists. and the nhs was in no way a part of that _ lists. and the nhs was in no way a part of that co-operation - lists. and the nhs was in no way a i part of that co-operation agreement. part of that co—operation agreement. we do not agree with labour's approach on the nhs in wales. as an opposition member, myjob is to persuade them to make bold decisions to take us on the right decision. what you need more than anything is assurance that sustainability would be built in for the workforce within the nhs. workforce planning and giving support to your pay packet, but all those other means that show you are valued as a health worker. nigel farage?_ you are valued as a health worker. nigel farage? whether it is wales, scotland or england, _ nigel farage? whether it is wales, scotland or england, we _ nigel farage? whether it is wales, scotland or england, we know- nigel farage? whether it is wales, scotland or england, we know that| scotland or england, we know that whilst _ scotland or england, we know that whilst you — scotland or england, we know that whilst you can get great care, the nhs model isn't working. you can't -et nhs model isn't working. you can't get gp— nhs model isn't working. you can't get gp appointments, things we have grown _ get gp appointments, things we have grown up taking for granted. they can argue — grown up taking for granted. they can argue that it is all money — i will spend — can argue that it is all money — i will spend more money, you will spend _ will spend more money, you will spend more money. it doesn't work. a few years _ spend more money. it doesn't work. a few years ago, we were spending 7.5% of the _ few years ago, we were spending 7.5% of the national cake on the nhs, and now it _ of the national cake on the nhs, and now it is _ of the national cake on the nhs, and now it is over— of the national cake on the nhs, and now it is over 11%. in of the national cake on the nhs, and now it is over 11%.— now it is over 11%. in answer to the cuestion, now it is over 11%. in answer to the question. how _ now it is over 11%. in answer to the question, how would _ now it is over 11%. in answer to the question, how would you _ now it is over 11%. in answer to the question, how would you ensure i now it is over 11%. in answer to the i question, how would you ensure she graduates into a fully functioning nhs graduates into a fully functioning nh , ., , ., , ., nhs stop. the model is wrong. the model through _ nhs stop. the model is wrong. the model through which _ nhs stop. the model is wrong. the model through which we _ nhs stop. the model is wrong. the model through which we fund i nhs stop. the model is wrong. the | model through which we fund health is wrong _ model through which we fund health is wronu. . . is wrong. this is nigel telling us he doesn't _ is wrong. this is nigel telling us he doesn't believe _ is wrong. this is nigel telling us he doesn't believe in _ is wrong. this is nigel telling us he doesn't believe in the - is wrong. this is nigel telling us he doesn't believe in the nhs. i is wrong. this is nigel telling us i he doesn't believe in the nhs. this is what _ he doesn't believe in the nhs. this is what he's — he doesn't believe in the nhs. this is what he's doing, _ he doesn't believe in the nhs. this is what he's doing, telling - he doesn't believe in the nhs. this is what he's doing, telling the i is what he's doing, telling the public— is what he's doing, telling the public doesn't _ is what he's doing, telling the public doesn't believe - is what he's doing, telling the public doesn't believe the i is what he's doing, telling the i public doesn't believe the nhs. is what he's doing, telling the - public doesn't believe the nhs. that is what ou public doesn't believe the nhs. that is what you want. _ public doesn't believe the nhs. is what you want. you are in scotland. _ is what you want. you are in scotland, of all places. the nhs is very badly— scotland, of all places. the nhs is very badly run. we scotland, of all places. the nhs is very badly run-— scotland, of all places. the nhs is very badly run. we won't be taking any lectures from _ very badly run. we won't be taking any lectures from you. _ very badly run. we won't be taking any lectures from you. you - very badly run. we won't be taking any lectures from you. you would l any lectures from you. you would have more _ any lectures from you. you would have more private health - any lectures from you. you would have more private health care? i any lectures from you. you would i have more private health care? the nhs isn't funded through national insurance — nhs isn't funded through national insurance. that is a nonsense. it goes _ insurance. that is a nonsense. it goes into— insurance. that is a nonsense. it goes into the pot. there are countries _ goes into the pot. there are countries next door to us, one country. — countries next door to us, one country, france, that has a very different— country, france, that has a very different way of funding the nhs. it's rather like those who can afford — it's rather like those who can afford through taxes pay into an insurance — afford through taxes pay into an insurance scheme. those who can't afford _ insurance scheme. those who can't afford it. _ insurance scheme. those who can't afford it, they pay and so it is for the mutual— afford it, they pay and so it is for the mutual benefit of everybody goes up the mutual benefit of everybody goes up and _ the mutual benefit of everybody goes up and it _ the mutual benefit of everybody goes up and it is _ the mutual benefit of everybody goes up and it is managed as if it was a private company. their returns on stroke. _ private company. their returns on stroke, heart and cancer are better than ours— stroke, heart and cancer are better than ours for— stroke, heart and cancer are better than ours for exactly the same of money _ than ours for exactly the same of mone . . than ours for exactly the same of mone . , ., ., ., we money. the kings foundation... we should spend _ money. the kings foundation... we should spend our _ money. the kings foundation... we should spend our money _ money. the kings foundation... we should spend our money properly i money. the kings foundation... we i should spend our money properly and we are _ should spend our money properly and we are not— should spend our money properly and we are not doing that.— we are not doing that. daisy, you will have to _ we are not doing that. daisy, you will have to make it _ we are not doing that. daisy, you will have to make it very - we are not doing that. daisy, you will have to make it very brief. i we are not doing that. daisy, you i will have to make it very brief. the kins will have to make it very brief. the kin . s fund will have to make it very brief. the kings fund have done an analysis of different— kings fund have done an analysis of different fundal_ kings fund have done an analysis of different fundal model— kings fund have done an analysis of different fundal model —— _ kings fund have done an analysis of different fundal model —— funding i different fundal model —— funding models _ different fundal model —— funding models and — different fundal model —— funding models and they— different fundal model —— funding models and they don't _ different fundal model —— funding models and they don't make i different fundal model —— funding models and they don't make a i models and they don't make a material— models and they don't make a material difference _ models and they don't make a material difference to- models and they don't make a i material difference to outcomes. what _ material difference to outcomes. what matters _ material difference to outcomes. what matters is _ material difference to outcomes. what matters is the _ material difference to outcomes. what matters is the amount i material difference to outcomes. what matters is the amount of. material difference to outcomes. i what matters is the amount of money you put— what matters is the amount of money you put into _ what matters is the amount of money you put into the — what matters is the amount of money you put into the service. _ what matters is the amount of money you put into the service. i— what matters is the amount of money you put into the service.— you put into the service. i would like to hear— you put into the service. i would like to hear from _ you put into the service. i would like to hear from carla _ you put into the service. i would like to hear from carla denyer i you put into the service. i would | like to hear from carla denyer on like to hearfrom carla denyer on this. like to hear from carla denyer on this. . , like to hear from carla denyer on this. , , ., , this. the green party are the party that is about _ this. the green party are the party that is about to _ this. the green party are the party that is about to be _ this. the green party are the party that is about to be honest - this. the green party are the party that is about to be honest about i that is about to be honest about the need for investment. your right to ask the question and thanks for stepping into this important location. the nhs has been chronically underfunded for decades, it is on its knees and this cannot be allowed to continue. most of us agree about that. the answer is not, as the conservatives and, surprisingly, labourthink, to surprisingly, labour think, to invite surprisingly, labourthink, to invite big multinational companies further into our national health service. the answer is investment and protecting our nhs. band service. the answer is investment and protecting our nhs.— and protecting our nhs. and the money comes — and protecting our nhs. and the money comes from? _ and protecting our nhs. and the money comes from? we - and protecting our nhs. and the i money comes from? we announced and protecting our nhs. and the - money comes from? we announced our health and social _ money comes from? we announced our health and social care _ money comes from? we announced our health and social care policy _ health and social care policy yesterday, including £30 billion of an increase in funding for our health services, 20 billion on social care, and it's really important we understand how closely those are linked, because if we have better social care, those are linked, because if we have bettersocial care, it those are linked, because if we have better social care, it takes the pressure off the nhs. and a one—off £20 billion capital investment. these are large sums — where do they come from? these are large sums - where do they come from?— come from? from reforming the tax s stem. come from? from reforming the tax system. currently _ come from? from reforming the tax system. currently the _ come from? from reforming the tax system. currently the uk _ come from? from reforming the tax system. currently the uk tax - come from? from reforming the tax| system. currently the uk tax system is unbelievably unfair, putting more onus on lower income working people to contribute to the treasury than it does towards the super—rich, the billionaires, the multimillionaires and billionaires, so the greens would make adjustments to that system so that those with the broadest shoulders, who can most easily afford to pay quite a modest amount, and that will provide plenty of funding for decent investment in public services that benefit all of us. . ~' public services that benefit all of us. . ~ , ., public services that benefit all of us. ., ~ ., ., public services that benefit all of us. thank you, carla denyer, and thank you — us. thank you, carla denyer, and thank you all- — thank you all. applause on to our next question, and this one comes from lorenzo barber. where i live in one comes from lorenzo barber. where i live in essex. — one comes from lorenzo barber. where i live in essex. l'm _ one comes from lorenzo barber. where i live in essex, i'm struggling _ one comes from lorenzo barber. where i live in essex, i'm struggling to - i live in essex, i'm struggling to find a house. i've noticed the roads are busier, and it's almost impossible to get a doctor's appointment. i think immigration is partly to blame. what are the party is going to do about immigration? thank you very much, lorenzo, for that. first to stephen flynn. 50. thank you very much, lorenzo, for that. first to stephen flynn.- that. first to stephen flynn. so, i accet that. first to stephen flynn. so, i accept the premise _ that. first to stephen flynn. so, i accept the premise of _ that. first to stephen flynn. so, i accept the premise of what i that. first to stephen flynn. so, i accept the premise of what you i that. first to stephen flynn. so, i accept the premise of what you are saying _ accept the premise of what you are saying in— accept the premise of what you are saying in your area. accept the premise of what you are saying in yourarea. i'm accept the premise of what you are saying in your area. i'm afraid accept the premise of what you are saying in yourarea. i'm afraid i don't _ saying in yourarea. i'm afraid i don't know— saying in yourarea. i'm afraid i don't know it very well, but let me say a few— don't know it very well, but let me say a few home truths, particularly to some _ say a few home truths, particularly to some members of this panel. migration — to some members of this panel. migration is absolutely essential to our public— migration is absolutely essential to our public services, essential to our public services, essential to our businesses, and essential to our economicm — economic... applause what we need to do is enter the demonisation of migration. in scotland. _ demonisation of migration. in scotland, we have a declining working — scotland, we have a declining working age population, despite a net number of people moving from the rest of— net number of people moving from the rest of the _ net number of people moving from the rest of the uk to scotland. we need migrants, and this race to the bottom — migrants, and this race to the bottom on— migrants, and this race to the bottom on migration, driven by nigel farage. _ bottom on migration, driven by nigel farage, followed by the conservative party. _ farage, followed by the conservative party. and _ farage, followed by the conservative party, and hotly chased by the labour— party, and hotly chased by the labour party, does not serve scotland's interests will stop and it does _ scotland's interests will stop and it does not serve your interests, either~ _ it does not serve your interests, either so— it does not serve your interests, either. so rise up against it. do as keir starmer— either. so rise up against it. do as keir starmer did in 2020 and talk about— keir starmer did in 2020 and talk about the — keir starmer did in 2020 and talk about the benefits of migration. its importance to our fundamental aspects — importance to our fundamental aspects of life. to importance to our fundamental aspects of life.— importance to our fundamental aspects of life. to be clear, any voter in scotland _ aspects of life. to be clear, any voter in scotland who _ aspects of life. to be clear, any voter in scotland who wants i aspects of life. to be clear, any i voter in scotland who wants lower immigration should vote for other party? i immigration should vote for other -a ? ~ immigration should vote for other .a ? ~' ., , ., immigration should vote for other party? i think any voter in scotland who wants to _ party? i think any voter in scotland who wants to impact _ party? i think any voter in scotland who wants to impact our— party? i think any voter in scotland who wants to impact our economy, party? i think any voter in scotland i who wants to impact our economy, our nhs. should _ who wants to impact our economy, our nhs, should vote for the parties want _ nhs, should vote for the parties want to— nhs, should vote for the parties want to cut migration, which is the labour— want to cut migration, which is the labour party, the conservative party and nigel— labour party, the conservative party and nigel farage. this is the consequence of us being led down the garden _ consequence of us being led down the garden path by the right—wing in british— garden path by the right—wing in british politics for far too long. we need — british politics for far too long. we need to stand against it, promote our economy, promote public services. _ our economy, promote public services, and do so by promoting migration~ — migration. applause nigel farage? i'm on a platform i tonight with six other people whose parties have been wholly unconcerned with the issue of immigration. they think to even question it somehow makes you a bad person. let's get back to lorenzo's question and deal with some logic. from the end of the 1940s until mr blair came to power, for 50 years, net migration into great britain was 30,000-40,000 a net migration into great britain was 30,000—a0,000 a year, then tony blair comes in, we get net migration for the period of the labour government of 2.7 million people, then we get the conservatives elected in 2010, 2015, 2017, telling us they'll reduce net migration to tens of thousands a year, 11.3 million, the conservatives have let in. most of those that come in are not directly reductive members of the economy. most of those that come in are actually dependent sand, lorenzo, the truth of this is this ought to be the immigration election because whenever we talk about housing, whether we talk about the fact that rents are up between 20 and 30% in most of the country in the last four years, whether we talk about the roads, whether we talk about the roads, whether we talk about infrastructure, we are living through a population crisis, an increase of 10 million people since mr blair came to power and frankly it's making us poorer, it's diminishing our quality of life and it's nothing to do with race or any of those issues, is to do with actually putting the interests of our communities first. we need to get net migration and that means by the way people come and people go, we need to get net migration down to an even figure for the next few years and maybe then we can hope to catch up with housing, with health, and many of those things. most catch up with housing, with health, and many of those things.- and many of those things. most of those coming _ and many of those things. most of those coming to _ and many of those things. most of those coming to the _ and many of those things. most of those coming to the uk _ and many of those things. most of those coming to the uk today - and many of those things. most of those coming to the uk today are | and many of those things. most of. those coming to the uk today are on work visas or students.— those coming to the uk today are on work visas or students. about 5096 of those that come _ work visas or students. about 5096 of those that come our. _ work visas or students. about 5096 of those that come our. but _ work visas or students. about 5096 of those that come our. but the - work visas or students. about 5096 of those that come our. but the rules i those that come our. but the rules are changing- _ those that come our. but the rules are changing. we've _ those that come our. but the rules are changing. we've even - those that come our. but the rules are changing. we've even had - those that come our. but the rules. are changing. we've even had under the conservative _ are changing. we've even had under the conservative students _ are changing. we've even had under the conservative students coming i are changing. we've even had under. the conservative students coming and bringing their mum,... i've given you the numbers. can bringing their mum,... i've given you the numbers.— bringing their mum,... i've given you the numbers. can i turn to rhun a . you the numbers. can i turn to rhun ap iorwerth- — you the numbers. can i turn to rhun ap lorwerth. nigel— you the numbers. can i turn to rhun ap lorwerth. nigel farage _ you the numbers. can i turn to rhun ap lorwerth. nigel farage wants - you the numbers. can i turn to rhun ap lorwerth. nigel farage wants to l ap lorwerth. nigel farage wants to make this an _ ap lorwerth. nigel farage wants to make this an immigration - ap lorwerth. nigel farage wants to make this an immigration election | make this an immigration election for his_ make this an immigration election for his own — make this an immigration election for his own self— make this an immigration election for his own self interest. - make this an immigration election for his own self interest. let's - for his own self interest. let's change — for his own self interest. let's change the _ for his own self interest. let's change the tone... _ change the tone... applause - applause let's change the tone of the debate on immigration _ let's change the tone of the debate on immigration. too— let's change the tone of the debate on immigration. too much- let's change the tone of the debate on immigration. too much of- let's change the tone of the debate on immigration. too much of it - let's change the tone of the debate on immigration. too much of it is l on immigration. too much of it is framed _ on immigration. too much of it is framed around _ on immigration. too much of it is framed around frankly _ on immigration. too much of it is framed around frankly the - on immigration. too much of it is�* framed around frankly the bigotry of people _ framed around frankly the bigotry of heaple like — framed around frankly the bigotry of pe0ple like nigel— framed around frankly the bigotry of people like nigel farage. _ framed around frankly the bigotry of people like nigel farage. is- framed around frankly the bigotry of people like nigel farage._ people like nigel farage. is that the best you _ people like nigel farage. is that the best you can _ people like nigel farage. is that the best you can do _ people like nigel farage. is that the best you can do for- people like nigel farage. is that the best you can do for screen i the best you can do for screen pennies morden can't stand up to nigel farage because she wants her party to be like nigel farage. angela ranger —— angela rayner can't stand up to nigel farage because of the shift in her party to the right. plaid cymru will stand up to nigel farage. 0f plaid cymru will stand up to nigel farage. of course we need rules. benefits for everyone, lovely. {lil benefits for everyone, lovely. (gllf course benefits for everyone, lovely. course we benefits for everyone, lovely. of course we need rules on borders. wales controlled its own borders during covid, that's what countries do, but we need those around proper processing of asylum applications, we need to stop the vile and expensive rule under flights, we need to stop the vile and expensive rule underflights, we need safe passage into this country and we need to realise that we need immigration for the interests of our health system, our care system and our economy. health system, our care system and our economy-— our economy. penny mordaunt, do ou. .. you... applause respond to nigel farage's charge of broken promises from your party on immigration. this broken promises from your party on immigration-— immigration. this might be an immigration — immigration. this might be an immigration election - immigration. this might be an immigration election but - immigration. this might be an immigration election but it's l immigration election but it's definitely going to be a cost of living — definitely going to be a cost of living election and one thing we can do to— living election and one thing we can do to help _ living election and one thing we can do to help the gentleman who asked the question is about ensuring that you keep _ the question is about ensuring that you keep more of your money. we will cut your— you keep more of your money. we will cut your taxes. labour will put your taxes _ cut your taxes. labour will put your taxes up~ _ cut your taxes. labour will put your taxes u. ~ .,, cut your taxes. labour will put your taxes u-. ~ .,, ., cut your taxes. labour will put your taxes u. ~ ., , ., cut your taxes. labour will put your i taxes uo-— you taxes up. was that the question? you will have more _ taxes up. was that the question? you will have more agency _ taxes up. was that the question? you will have more agency being - taxes up. was that the question? you will have more agency being able - taxes up. was that the question? you will have more agency being able to l will have more agency being able to -et will have more agency being able to get onto— will have more agency being able to get onto the property ladder... penny— get onto the property ladder... penny mordaunt, lorenzo's question, the problems he set out, he said i think immigration is partly to blame, what are the party is going to do about immigration? immigration is too hiuh to do about immigration? immigration is too high and — to do about immigration? immigration is too high and what _ to do about immigration? immigration is too high and what we _ to do about immigration? immigration is too high and what we need - to do about immigration? immigration is too high and what we need to - to do about immigration? immigration is too high and what we need to do - is too high and what we need to do is too high and what we need to do is have _ is too high and what we need to do is have a _ is too high and what we need to do is have a balance between some of the issues — is have a balance between some of the issues that have been raised already~ — the issues that have been raised already. the best way to do this is to get— already. the best way to do this is to get parliament to make your parliament, elected by you, to have an annual— parliament, elected by you, to have an annual cap stop what that will do is take _ an annual cap stop what that will do is take into — an annual cap stop what that will do is take into account the economic needs, _ is take into account the economic needs. the — is take into account the economic needs, the needs of the workforce, but also _ needs, the needs of the workforce, but also the pressures that immigration puts on communities, as the question— immigration puts on communities, as the question made very clear. that will he _ the question made very clear. that will be informed by experts, but it will be informed by experts, but it will he _ will be informed by experts, but it will be parliament that decides, and because _ will be parliament that decides, and because the numbers are too high, over the _ because the numbers are too high, over the next few years you can see it will— over the next few years you can see it will come — over the next few years you can see it will come down. that is a clear plan, _ it will come down. that is a clear plan, a _ it will come down. that is a clear plan, a clear— it will come down. that is a clear plan, a clear guarantee. we've already— plan, a clear guarantee. we've already ended free movement, we've done many— already ended free movement, we've done many things. that is the logical— done many things. that is the logical next step. that's what you -et logical next step. that's what you get with us, unlike labour who have no plan, _ get with us, unlike labour who have no plan, they have no target, they have _ no plan, they have no target, they have no— no plan, they have no target, they have no clue, they haven't done any of the _ have no clue, they haven't done any of the work— have no clue, they haven't done any of the work on the workforce, they've — of the work on the workforce, they've had 14 years to work this out, _ they've had 14 years to work this out, they— they've had 14 years to work this out, they have nothing to offer you, controlled _ out, they have nothing to offer you, controlled numbers and a cap and others _ controlled numbers and a cap and others or— controlled numbers and a cap and others or uncontrolled immigration under— others or uncontrolled immigration under the — others or uncontrolled immigration under the labour party. how others or uncontrolled immigration under the labour party.— others or uncontrolled immigration under the labour party. how have you not the under the labour party. how have you got the front — under the labour party. how have you got the front to _ under the labour party. how have you got the front to say _ under the labour party. how have you got the front to say that. _ under the labour party. how have you got the front to say that. lets - under the labour party. how have you got the front to say that. lets let - got the front to say that. lets let an . ela got the front to say that. lets let angela rayner — got the front to say that. lets let angela rayner respond _ got the front to say that. lets let angela rayner respond to - got the front to say that. lets let angela rayner respond to that i got the front to say that. lets let - angela rayner respond to that charge of having no plan. your party has only said there will be a significant cut but there are no numbers, no timeframe attached to that. 1&1 numbers, no timeframe attached to that. ' , . , . numbers, no timeframe attached to that.’ , ., ,., ., that. 14 years and you have trebled net migration _ that. 14 years and you have trebled net migration figures _ that. 14 years and you have trebled net migration figures but _ that. 14 years and you have trebled net migration figures but what - net migration figures but what i would say to lorenzo is the problems with housing, roads and gps and public services decimation the tories have done to our public services. ,, ., ., , , , services. keir starmer has spent most of his _ services. keir starmer has spent most of his life _ services. keir starmer has spent most of his life campaigning - services. keir starmer has spent most of his life campaigning for| most of his life campaigning for free movement. these guys are not going _ free movement. these guys are not going to _ free movement. these guys are not going to control immigration. and we said the rwanda _ going to control immigration. and we said the rwanda scheme, _ said the rwanda scheme, look, yesterday, 300 people arrived on a boat, one was a six month baby, they could have died going over the crossing. we said we need a new border command. we would scrap the real wonder scheme which would have been 300 for the whole year. those numbers are _ been 300 for the whole year. those numbers are small— been 300 for the whole year. those numbers are small compared - been 300 for the whole year. those numbers are small compared to - been 300 for the whole year. those numbers are small compared to legal migration. irate numbers are small compared to legal miaration. ~ ., ,. ., ., migration. we would scrap the rwanda scheme, migration. we would scrap the rwanda scheme. put — migration. we would scrap the rwanda scheme. put the _ migration. we would scrap the rwanda scheme, put the money _ migration. we would scrap the rwanda scheme, put the money into _ migration. we would scrap the rwanda scheme, put the money into a - migration. we would scrap the rwanda scheme, put the money into a border. scheme, put the money into a border force command and smashed the gangs because we need to do that on 14 years of the conservatives, they are relying on overseas to fill our skills shortages because we haven't got an industrial and skill strategy. labourwill got an industrial and skill strategy. labour will put one in place so we can fill the gaps and make sure that we have people in those jobs. make sure that we have people in thosejobs. people come make sure that we have people in those jobs. people come to this country and they are propping up many of our services, because we haven't trained the people to do that. , , ., that. this is how... applause - applause labour want more and more to talk the language — labour want more and more to talk the language of— labour want more and more to talk the language of the _ labour want more and more to talk the language of the conservatives. the language of the conservatives and, the language of the conservatives and. dare — the language of the conservatives and. dare i— the language of the conservatives and. dare i say, _ the language of the conservatives and, dare i say, nigel— the language of the conservatives and, dare i say, nigel farage. - the language of the conservativesl and, dare i say, nigel farage. keir starmer— and, dare i say, nigel farage. keir starmer said— and, dare i say, nigel farage. keir starmer said the _ and, dare i say, nigel farage. keir starmer said the other— and, dare i say, nigel farage. keir starmer said the other day- and, dare i say, nigel farage. keir starmer said the other day rishi i starmer said the other day rishi sunak— starmer said the other day rishi sunak was— starmer said the other day rishi sunak was the _ starmer said the other day rishi sunak was the most _ starmer said the other day rishi sunak was the most liberal - starmer said the other day rishi. sunak was the most liberal prime minister— sunak was the most liberal prime minister when _ sunak was the most liberal prime ministerwhen it— sunak was the most liberal prime minister when it comes _ sunak was the most liberal prime minister when it comes to - minister when it comes to immigration. _ minister when it comes to immigration. i’d- minister when it comes to immigration.— minister when it comes to immigration. minister when it comes to immiaration. ,, ., ., ., immigration. i'd like to hear now from carla _ immigration. i'd like to hear now from carla denyer— immigration. i'd like to hear now from carla denyer and _ immigration. i'd like to hear now from carla denyer and from - immigration. i'd like to hear now| from carla denyer and from daisy cooper. from carla denyer and from daisy cooer. ., ., ,, , ., cooper. so, lorenzo, your question started by talking _ cooper. so, lorenzo, your question started by talking about _ cooper. so, lorenzo, your question started by talking about houses, i started by talking about houses, roads and gps. we need to build 150,000 social homes a year to tackle the crisis in our housing. the roads have been a mess because the conservatives have cut local authority budgets between 25 40%. that's why public services are on their knees at the conservatives promised at the last general election to recruit 6000 gps. we now have fewer gps per head right across our country. that's why our public services are on their knees. is he services are on their knees. is he wron: to services are on their knees. is he wrong to say _ services are on their knees. is he wrong to say immigration - services are on their knees. is he wrong to say immigration is - services are on their knees. is he wrong to say immigration is partly to blame as yellow i do say it —— i would say it's to do with conservative choices, they've made choices to give a tax cut to the big banks but on the issue of immigration i would say the conservatives have made a complete mess, both of migration system but also of the asylum system, and we have the worst of both worlds. we have the worst of both worlds. we have people who are desperate, fleeing war and persecution, arriving on small boats, and at the same time we have the nhs, social care, hospitality and engineering, none of them can recruit the staff they need with the skills to boost our economy so liberal democrats have said on care in particular we should give care workers are high minimum wage, £2 higher, investing care workers, give them status and progression in the workforce and when we still have a skills gap invite people in from other countries and welcome them when they come. carla denyer, what would the green party do about immigration? first of all reflecting — party do about immigration? first of all reflecting back _ party do about immigration? first of all reflecting back to _ party do about immigration? first of all reflecting back to what _ party do about immigration? first of all reflecting back to what nigel - all reflecting back to what nigel farage — all reflecting back to what nigel farage said, how cold—hearted do you have to _ farage said, how cold—hearted do you have to he _ farage said, how cold—hearted do you have to he to— farage said, how cold—hearted do you have to be to not want people coming here on— have to be to not want people coming here on work— have to be to not want people coming here on work visas to be able to bring _ here on work visas to be able to bring their— here on work visas to be able to bring their husbands or wives or infant _ bring their husbands or wives or infant children with them? you would not want to infant children with them? you would rrot want to cut _ infant children with them? you would not want to cut immigration? - infant children with them? you would not want to cut immigration? the - not want to cut immigration? the green party _ not want to cut immigration? the green party takes a totally different approach to immigration. when _ different approach to immigration. when it's— different approach to immigration. when it's hard to get an affordable home: _ when it's hard to get an affordable home, when it's hard to access public— home, when it's hard to access public services like agp, when the roads— public services like agp, when the roads are — public services like agp, when the roads are poorly maintained, i can absolutely— roads are poorly maintained, i can absolutely understand, lorenzo, why you are _ absolutely understand, lorenzo, why you are angry about these things. i am too _ you are angry about these things. i am too but— you are angry about these things. i am too. but i am clear that the reason — am too. but i am clear that the reason for— am too. but i am clear that the reason for these services being run into the _ reason for these services being run into the ground is not people coming here, _ into the ground is not people coming here, whether they are coming here fleeing _ here, whether they are coming here fleeing violence and persecution as asylum _ fleeing violence and persecution as asylum seekers, or whether they are coming _ asylum seekers, or whether they are coming here — asylum seekers, or whether they are coming here to work in many of our understaffed sectors, like health and social care, if you meet a migrant— and social care, if you meet a migrant in— and social care, if you meet a migrant in the nhs they are more likely— migrant in the nhs they are more likely to _ migrant in the nhs they are more likely to be treating you, as i was the last— likely to be treating you, as i was the last time i saw a gp, than being ahead— the last time i saw a gp, than being ahead of— the last time i saw a gp, than being ahead of you in the queue. applause migration has been a good thing for this country and so in the green party— this country and so in the green party our— this country and so in the green party our immigration policy is not about— party our immigration policy is not about arbitrary numbers. that's why not talking _ about arbitrary numbers. that's why not talking about caps. instead, it's about — not talking about caps. instead, it's about making our immigration system _ it's about making our immigration system fairer and more it's about making our immigration system fairerand more humane. it's about making our immigration system fairer and more humane. carla den er, system fairer and more humane. carla denyer. thank— system fairer and more humane. carla denyer. thank you _ system fairer and more humane. carla denyer, thank you very _ system fairer and more humane. (sis. denyer, thank you very much. we still have quite a few more questions to come. meanwhile i want to mention that online on the bbc live page our colleagues at bbc verify are fact checking the claims made here on stage and lets turn with that to our next question, which is from suzanne. mr; with that to our next question, which is from suzanne. my husband and i both work, we've got good i which is from suzanne. my husband l and i both work, we've got good jobs and i both work, we've got good jobs and we _ and i both work, we've got good jobs and we are _ and i both work, we've got good jobs and we are not— and i both work, we've got good jobs and we are not eligible _ and i both work, we've got good jobs and we are not eligible for— and we are not eligible for benefits _ and we are not eligible for benefits. our— and we are not eligible for benefits. 0ur lifestyle, . and we are not eligible for. benefits. 0ur lifestyle, what and we are not eligible for- benefits. 0ur lifestyle, what we earn _ benefits. 0ur lifestyle, what we earn goes — benefits. 0ur lifestyle, what we earn goes on _ benefits. 0ur lifestyle, what we earn goes on gas, _ benefits. 0ur lifestyle, what we earn goes on gas, food, - benefits. 0ur lifestyle, what we earn goes on gas, food, we - benefits. 0ur lifestyle, what we earn goes on gas, food, we are| earn goes on gas, food, we are working — earn goes on gas, food, we are working to _ earn goes on gas, food, we are working to survive, _ earn goes on gas, food, we are working to survive, not - earn goes on gas, food, we are working to survive, not live. i earn goes on gas, food, we are. working to survive, not live. this isn't _ working to survive, not live. this isn't sustainable. _ working to survive, not live. this isn't sustainable. who _ working to survive, not live. this isn't sustainable. who will- working to survive, not live. thisl isn't sustainable. who will change things— isn't sustainable. who will change things for— isn't sustainable. who will change things for working _ isn't sustainable. who will change things for working people? - isn't sustainable. who will change things for working people? thank| things for working people? thank ou, things for working people? thank you. suzanne. — things for working people? thank you, suzanne, for _ things for working people? thank you, suzanne, for your _ things for working people? thank you, suzanne, for your question. | you, suzanne, for your question. rhun ap lorwerth.— rhun ap lorwerth. change is a keyword. _ rhun ap lorwerth. change is a keyword. it's _ rhun ap lorwerth. change is a keyword. it's a _ rhun ap lorwerth. change is a keyword, it's a change - rhun ap lorwerth. change is a l keyword, it's a change election, isn't it? the sadnesses there will be a change in downing street, i'm quite sure keir starmer will become the prime minister in four weeks' time but what change does that represent? i will always argue you need a plurality of voices making the case for exactly what you are looking for. what are the answer is, when you have two micro—parties converging on public spending, converging on public spending, converging on public spending, converging on taxation? who is going to make sure you are able to see the investment in housing for your children, to see the investment in getting rid of the two child benefit cap in orderfor parents to be able to look after their children and take children out of poverty? i believe that the real frustration in this election is the lack of change on offer from the labour party, whether you like them or not there was a feeling i was still working as a journalist in the 1990s when tony blair came in, at least there was a feeling of something different happening. i'm not sensing that which is why we in plaid cymru say the tories are gone, labour are going to come into power, but let's for goodness' sake make sure people who feel ignored, as you do, are heard by that labour party when they come in because change has to mean something and that's what's important. something and that's what's important-— something and that's what's im ortant. . ., ._ something and that's what's imortant. . ., ., , important. angela rayner, rhun ap iorwerth's charges _ important. angela rayner, rhun ap iorwerth's charges change - important. angela rayner, rhun ap iorwerth's charges change is - important. angela rayner, rhun ap iorwerth's charges change is not. iorwerth's charges change is not going to come with any labour government for saying there has been no vote cast at this election and i understand what you are saying, the cost of living. liz understand what you are saying, the cost of living-— cost of living. liz truss sent the economy -- _ cost of living. liz truss sent the economy -- crashed _ cost of living. liz truss sent the economy -- crashed the - cost of living. liz truss sent the l economy -- crashed the economy cost of living. liz truss sent the - economy -- crashed the economy had economy —— crashed the economy had sent mortgages sky—high. we've been at the _ sent mortgages sky—high. we've been at the mercy of global energy prices and energy prices have gone significantly high for people and also food prices, so labour's first plan _ also food prices, so labour's first plan and — also food prices, so labour's first plan and priority is to secure the economy — plan and priority is to secure the economy. we will never go fast and loose _ economy. we will never go fast and loose with _ economy. we will never go fast and loose with public finances because it's working people who are paying the price _ it's working people who are paying the price for that and great british energy. _ the price for that and great british energy, which is putting a windfall tax on _ energy, which is putting a windfall tax on the — energy, which is putting a windfall tax on the big oil and gas companies which _ tax on the big oil and gas companies which will— tax on the big oil and gas companies which will allow us to set up the publicly— which will allow us to set up the publicly owned energy company which will give _ publicly owned energy company which will give taxpayers up a of the money back, bring down bills and make _ money back, bring down bills and make a _ money back, bring down bills and make a secure for our energy needs for the _ make a secure for our energy needs for the future and create thousands ofiobs _ for the future and create thousands ofjobs here in the uk, that is real change. _ ofjobs here in the uk, that is real change, that's how we will deliver an economy that works for working people _ an economy that works for working people and — an economy that works for working people and the tories should never be allowed to forget that the reason they are _ be allowed to forget that the reason they are in _ be allowed to forget that the reason they are in the cost of living crisis — they are in the cost of living crisis now— they are in the cost of living crisis now is because they crashed the economy and went fast and loose with the _ the economy and went fast and loose with the public finances.— with the public finances. penny mordaunt- _ mordaunt. applause this is what i mean when i say this election— this is what i mean when i say this election is— this is what i mean when i say this election is about _ this is what i mean when i say this election is about the _ this is what i mean when i say this election is about the cost - this is what i mean when i say this election is about the cost of - this is what i mean when i say this election is about the cost of livingl election is about the cost of living and what — election is about the cost of living and what you _ election is about the cost of living and what you have _ election is about the cost of living and what you have been - election is about the cost of living and what you have been going - election is about the cost of living - and what you have been going through and what you have been going through and nrany— and what you have been going through and many other— and what you have been going through and many other people _ and what you have been going through and many other people have _ and what you have been going through and many other people have been- and many other people have been going _ and many other people have been going through. _ and many other people have been going through, it's— and many other people have been going through, it's exhausting, i and many other people have been. going through, it's exhausting, and we need _ going through, it's exhausting, and we need to— going through, it's exhausting, and we need to bring _ going through, it's exhausting, and we need to bring it _ going through, it's exhausting, and we need to bring it to— going through, it's exhausting, and we need to bring it to an _ going through, it's exhausting, and we need to bring it to an end. - going through, it's exhausting, and we need to bring it to an end. we l we need to bring it to an end. we have _ we need to bring it to an end. we have supported _ we need to bring it to an end. we have supported people _ we need to bring it to an end. we have supported people through i we need to bring it to an end. we - have supported people through some very difficult — have supported people through some very difficult times. _ have supported people through some very difficult times. that _ have supported people through some very difficult times. that has - have supported people through some very difficult times. that has been i very difficult times. that has been expensive — very difficult times. that has been expensive but— very difficult times. that has been expensive. but we _ very difficult times. that has been expensive. but we are _ very difficult times. that has been expensive. but we are now- very difficult times. that has been expensive. but we are now in - very difficult times. that has been expensive. but we are now in the| expensive. but we are now in the recovery — expensive. but we are now in the recovery the _ expensive. but we are now in the recovery. the economy— expensive. but we are now in the recovery. the economy is - expensive. but we are now in the recovery. the economy is doing i expensive. but we are now in the - recovery. the economy is doing much better— recovery. the economy is doing much better stock _ recovery. the economy is doing much better stock we — recovery. the economy is doing much better stock we are _ recovery. the economy is doing much better stock we are outperforming - better stock we are outperforming america _ better stock we are outperforming america on — better stock we are outperforming america on growth, _ better stock we are outperforming america on growth, we _ better stock we are outperforming america on growth, we are - america on growth, we are outperforming _ america on growth, we are outperforming europe - america on growth, we are outperforming europe on l america on growth, we are - outperforming europe on inflation. those _ outperforming europe on inflation. those are — outperforming europe on inflation. those are your _ outperforming europe on inflation. those are your achievements - outperforming europe on inflation. those are your achievements will i those are your achievements will stop those are your achievements will sto_ , those are your achievements will sto ; , ., , . ., , those are your achievements will sto_, ., , , ., stop but it only continues to get worse. stop but it only continues to get worse- the _ stop but it only continues to get worse. the only _ stop but it only continues to get worse. the only way _ stop but it only continues to get worse. the only way to - stop but it only continues to get worse. the only way to keep i stop but it only continues to get| worse. the only way to keep the recovery going _ worse. the only way to keep the recovery going is _ worse. the only way to keep the recovery going is to _ worse. the only way to keep the recovery going is to give - worse. the only way to keep the recovery going is to give you - worse. the only way to keep the l recovery going is to give you more money— recovery going is to give you more money in — recovery going is to give you more money in your— recovery going is to give you more money in your pockets, _ recovery going is to give you more money in your pockets, that's - recovery going is to give you more money in your pockets, that's whyj money in your pockets, that's why this election — money in your pockets, that's why this election must _ money in your pockets, that's why this election must be _ money in your pockets, that's why this election must be about- money in your pockets, that's why this election must be about as - this election must be about as cutting — this election must be about as cutting your— this election must be about as cutting your taxes. _ this election must be about as cutting your taxes. we've - this election must be about as i cutting your taxes. we've already started _ cutting your taxes. we've already started doing _ cutting your taxes. we've already started doing that _ cutting your taxes. we've already started doing that and _ cutting your taxes. we've already started doing that and you've - started doing that and you've already— started doing that and you've already heard _ started doing that and you've already heard some - started doing that and you've - already heard some announcements, you will— already heard some announcements, you will see — already heard some announcements, you will see more _ already heard some announcements, you will see more in _ already heard some announcements, you will see more in our— already heard some announcements, you will see more in our manifesto i you will see more in our manifesto next _ you will see more in our manifesto next week — you will see more in our manifesto next week we _ you will see more in our manifesto next week. we have _ you will see more in our manifesto next week. we have got— you will see more in our manifesto next week. we have got to - you will see more in our manifesto next week. we have got to cut - next week. we have got to cut people's — next week. we have got to cut people's taxes _ next week. we have got to cut people's taxes and _ next week. we have got to cut people's taxes and we - next week. we have got to cut people's taxes and we have i next week. we have got to cutl people's taxes and we have got next week. we have got to cut - people's taxes and we have got to alleviate _ people's taxes and we have got to alleviate burdens _ people's taxes and we have got to alleviate burdens on _ people's taxes and we have got to alleviate burdens on business. - alleviate burdens on business. angela — alleviate burdens on business. angela rayner— alleviate burdens on business. angela rayner and _ alleviate burdens on business. angela rayner and the - alleviate burdens on business. angela rayner and the labour| alleviate burdens on business. - angela rayner and the labour party, keir starmer— angela rayner and the labour party, keir starmer confirmed _ angela rayner and the labour party, keir starmer confirmed this - angela rayner and the labour party, keir starmer confirmed this earlier l keir starmer confirmed this earlier this week, — keir starmer confirmed this earlier this week, they— keir starmer confirmed this earlier this week, they are _ keir starmer confirmed this earlier this week, they are going - keir starmer confirmed this earlier this week, they are going to - keir starmer confirmed this earlier this week, they are going to put i keir starmer confirmed this earlier| this week, they are going to put up your taxes— this week, they are going to put up your taxes by— this week, they are going to put up your taxes by £2000. _ this week, they are going to put up your taxes by £2000. that- this week, they are going to put up your taxes by £2000.— your taxes by £2000. that is a lie. b £2000 your taxes by £2000. that is a lie. by £2000 per _ your taxes by £2000. that is a lie. by £2000 per working _ your taxes by £2000. that is a lie. by £2000 per working household. | your taxes by £2000. that is a lie. - by £2000 per working household. the record by £2000 per working household. record level, by £2000 per working household. the record level, we _ by £2000 per working household. the record level, we hate _ by £2000 per working household. the record level, we hate putting - record level, we hate putting taxes pp. _ record level, we hate putting taxes pp. we've _ record level, we hate putting taxes up, we've been _ record level, we hate putting taxes up, we've been cutting - record level, we hate putting i taxes up, we've been cutting taxes, we will— taxes up, we've been cutting taxes, we will continue _ taxes up, we've been cutting taxes, we will continue to _ taxes up, we've been cutting taxes, we will continue to cut _ taxes up, we've been cutting taxes, we will continue to cut taxes, - taxes up, we've been cutting taxes, we will continue to cut taxes, the i we will continue to cut taxes, the country— we will continue to cut taxes, the country can— we will continue to cut taxes, the country can afford _ we will continue to cut taxes, the country can afford it _ we will continue to cut taxes, the country can afford it from - we will continue to cut taxes, the country can afford it from a - we will continue to cut taxes, the i country can afford it from a £2000, you can't— country can afford it from a £2000, you can't afford... _ country can afford it from a £2000, you can't afford... you _ country can afford it from a £2000, you can't afford. . ._ you can't afford... you are using a fiaure you can't afford... you are using a figure that's _ you can't afford... you are using a figure that's been _ you can't afford... you are using a figure that's been criticised - you can't afford... you are using a figure that's been criticised by - you can't afford... you are using a figure that's been criticised by the j figure that's been criticised by the uk statistics watchdog.— uk statistics watchdog. labour's own... uk statistics watchdog. labour's own- -- you _ uk statistics watchdog. labour's own... you stand _ uk statistics watchdog. labour's own... you stand by— uk statistics watchdog. labour's own... you stand by your - uk statistics watchdog. labour'sl own... you stand by your record, record levels _ own... you stand by your record, record levels of _ own... you stand by your record, record levels of taxes _ own... you stand by your record, record levels of taxes on - own... you stand by your record, record levels of taxes on working people. — record levels of taxes on working people, 26 to separate tax hikes in the last— people, 26 to separate tax hikes in the last parliament... people, 26 to separate tax hikes in the last parliament. . ._ people, 26 to separate tax hikes in the last parliament... about 12 new taxes that labour _ the last parliament... about 12 new taxes that labour are _ the last parliament... about 12 new taxes that labour are going - the last parliament... about 12 new taxes that labour are going to - the last parliament... about 12 new| taxes that labour are going to bring in _ taxes that labour are going to bring in... . , ,., taxes that labour are going to bring in... absolute rubbish, we will not raise taxes — in... absolute rubbish, we will not raise taxes for _ in... absolute rubbish, we will not raise taxes for working _ in... absolute rubbish, we will not raise taxes for working people. i in... absolute rubbish, we will not| raise taxes for working people. can we have a shot? £2000 _ raise taxes for working people. can we have a shot? £2000 per - raise taxes for working people. can | we have a shot? £2000 per working household. i'm _ we have a shot? £2000 per working household. i'm going _ we have a shot? £2000 per working household. i'm going to... - we have a shot? £2000 per working household. i'm going to... are - we have a shot? £2000 per working household. i'm going to... are you | household. i'm going to... are you takin: it household. i'm going to... are you taking it out _ household. i'm going to... are you taking it out of _ household. i'm going to... are you taking it out of your _ household. i'm going to... are you taking it out of your manifesto? i taking it out of your manifesto? time, _ taking it out of your manifesto? time, it's— taking it out of your manifesto? time, it's time _ taking it out of your manifesto? time, it's time to _ taking it out of your manifesto? time, it's time to hear- taking it out of your manifesto? time, it's time to hear from - taking it out of your manifesto? j time, it's time to hear from the others, angela rayner, it's time to hearfrom others, angela rayner, it's time to hear from the others, carla denyer. well, that was terribly dignified, wasn't it? laughter applause of applause of returning to the question, you don't have to be an economist to see that our economy is not working for the majority of people. penny is talking about a cost—of—living crisis and, yes, of course that is what it is, but you might more accurately describe it as an inequality crisis, because actually some people in this country have been doing very well. some people got substantially wealthier during the pandemic while many of the rest of us struggled. it doesn't have to be like this. we could have well—paid jobs, securejobs, and a welfare system that really acts as the safety net we need to catch people when they fall. a green economy would create jobs, people when they fall. a green economy would createjobs, well—paid jobs distributed all over the country. for example, on a nationwide home insulation programme which would bring down everyone's bills, help with the cost of living in the here and now, give this warm and comfortable rooms, create thousands of green jobs and support local businesses. and the greens would provide a real safety net, starting with a £15 minimum wage for all ages, starting with a £15 minimum wage for allages, removing starting with a £15 minimum wage for all ages, removing the ageist cap on young working adults, and immediate uplift to universal credit, and my final point, removing the cruel two child benefit cap that both the conservatives and labour party support, even though it holds 250,000 children down in poverty. thank you, carla denyer. nigel farage? b. thank you, carla denyer. nigel faraae? �* ., ., thank you, carla denyer. nigel faraie? ., ., ., “ thank you, carla denyer. nigel faraae? ., ., ., ,, , ~ farage? a lot of working people like ou feel farage? a lot of working people like you feel quite _ farage? a lot of working people like you feel quite resentful. _ farage? a lot of working people like you feel quite resentful. the - farage? a lot of working people like you feel quite resentful. the harder| you feel quite resentful. the harder you feel quite resentful. the harder you work. _ you feel quite resentful. the harder you work, the more tax you pay, the less disposable income you have, and yet there _ less disposable income you have, and yet there are increasingly people opting _ yet there are increasingly people opting just not to work. that number has rocketed over the course of the last few _ has rocketed over the course of the last few years. i understand how you feel. last few years. i understand how you feel your _ last few years. i understand how you feel. your energy bills are too expensive _ feel. your energy bills are too expensive and have been for the last 20 years _ expensive and have been for the last 20 years. why? because we load tax onto your _ 20 years. why? because we load tax onto your energy bill to give the wind _ onto your energy bill to give the wind farm — onto your energy bill to give the wind farm companies. it is kind of the poor— wind farm companies. it is kind of the poor in— wind farm companies. it is kind of the poor in society giving to the richer— the poor in society giving to the richer in— the poor in society giving to the richer in society. the cost of housing, _ richer in society. the cost of housing, rent, too high. back to the previous— housing, rent, too high. back to the previous question — the population e> expensive. reducing net migration to zero would get rid of that, getting rid of— zero would get rid of that, getting rid of subsidies on your energy bills— rid of subsidies on your energy bills would get rid of that. the big one is— bills would get rid of that. the big one is taxes. even tony blair's time, _ one is taxes. even tony blair's time, the _ one is taxes. even tony blair's time, the top rate of tax was 40p in this country — time, the top rate of tax was 40p in this country, paid by1.5 time, the top rate of tax was 40p in this country, paid by 1.5 million people — this country, paid by 1.5 million people. by— this country, paid by 1.5 million people. by the end of 2027, eight million _ people. by the end of 2027, eight million people will be paying 40p tax, million people will be paying 40p tax. so _ million people will be paying 40p tax, so we are dragging more and more _ tax, so we are dragging more and more people doing middle income jobs into higher— more people doing middle income jobs into higherand higher more people doing middle income jobs into higher and higher taxation, and that's— into higher and higher taxation, and that's why— into higher and higher taxation, and that's why life is so tough. to hear penny— that's why life is so tough. to hear penny mordaunt, whose government have put— penny mordaunt, whose government have put the tax burden up to the highest _ have put the tax burden up to the highest in — have put the tax burden up to the highest in this country since 1948, pretending they are a tax—cutting party _ pretending they are a tax—cutting party, frankly it is dishonesty on a breathtaking scale.— party, frankly it is dishonesty on a breathtaking scale. i breathtaking scale. stephen flynn? i am incredibly— breathtaking scale. stephen flynn? i am incredibly sorry _ breathtaking scale. stephen flynn? i am incredibly sorry to _ breathtaking scale. stephen flynn? i am incredibly sorry to hear— breathtaking scale. stephen flynn? i am incredibly sorry to hear about. am incredibly sorry to hear about the challenges that you have faced, and it is the same for millions of people across these islands, and it is simply not good enough. we know the damage the tories have caused to the damage the tories have caused to the economy as a result of liz truss's mini budget, but i'm afraid the challenges facing the economy are deeper than that. firstly, there is austerity, 14 years of it. i must re—emphasise the fact that there is £18 billion worth of cuts baked in which neither the labour party nor the conservative party are being honest about. instead, they are having the worst westminster argument between them tonight instead of being honest with you about the fiscal outlook going forward. there was also a conspiracy of silence on another issue — brexit. brexit has impacted the economy more than the covid pandemic. it has put your food economy more than the covid pandemic. it has put yourfood bills up pandemic. it has put yourfood bills up completely unnecessarily. it has been an unmitigated disaster for the economy. applause _ . that is why at this election you need to ignore _ . that is why at this election you need to ignore the _ . that is why at this election you need to ignore the snake - . that is why at this election you need to ignore the snake oil- need to ignore the snake oil salesman who delivered brexit, and you need to challenge the labour party and the conservative party about why they are not seeking to rejoin the single market, why they aren't seeking to double down and making sure we return to freedom of movement. we making sure we return to freedom of movement. ~ . making sure we return to freedom of movement-— making sure we return to freedom of movement. ~ ., ., , ., movement. we are outperforming the euro and our— movement. we are outperforming the euro and our exports _ movement. we are outperforming the euro and our exports are _ movement. we are outperforming the euro and our exports are at _ movement. we are outperforming the euro and our exports are at a - movement. we are outperforming the euro and our exports are at a record i euro and our exports are at a record high _ euro and our exports are at a record hiuh. , y ., euro and our exports are at a record hiuh. , ~ ., ., ., high. penny, you know for a fact that brexit _ high. penny, you know for a fact that brexit has _ high. penny, you know for a fact that brexit has wiped _ high. penny, you know for a fact that brexit has wiped out - high. penny, you know for a fact that brexit has wiped out £40 i that brexit has wiped out £40 billion of tax receipts from the uk economy and you did that because you were terrified of nigel farage. the worrying thing for me is not nigel, it is the silence of the labour party when it comes to the damage of brexit. silence on £18 billion of cuts, silence on brexit. the public deserve better and the snp will provide it. deserve better and the snp will rovide it. ,y ., ,, , provide it. daisy, earlier stephen fl nn provide it. daisy, earlier stephen flynn mentioned _ provide it. daisy, earlier stephen flynn mentioned austerity - provide it. daisy, earlier stephen flynn mentioned austerity and i provide it. daisy, earlier stephen i flynn mentioned austerity and your party was alongside the conservatives in the first part of that. , , , ., that. the lib dems fought the conservatives _ that. the lib dems fought the conservatives every _ that. the lib dems fought the conservatives every single - that. the lib dems fought the | conservatives every single day that. the lib dems fought the i conservatives every single day in coalition, — conservatives every single day in coalition, and we just have to look at the _ coalition, and we just have to look at the damage the conservatives are done on _ at the damage the conservatives are done on their own since 2015. not only has— done on their own since 2015. not only has there been brexit but there has been _ only has there been brexit but there has been this awful mini budget. to io has been this awful mini budget. to go back— has been this awful mini budget. to go back to _ has been this awful mini budget. to go back to suzanne's question, i speak— go back to suzanne's question, i speak to — go back to suzanne's question, i speak to hundreds of people in your situation _ speak to hundreds of people in your situation. people who play by the rules, _ situation. people who play by the rules, people who work hard, who pay their taxes. _ rules, people who work hard, who pay their taxes, and they got almost nothing — their taxes, and they got almost nothing to— their taxes, and they got almost nothing to show for it. on top of that, _ nothing to show for it. on top of that, when— nothing to show for it. on top of that, when they go to use their public— that, when they go to use their public services, everything feels broken — public services, everything feels broken. nothing works. applause there is a reason why the lib dems were _ there is a reason why the lib dems were the _ there is a reason why the lib dems were the first party to call for a windfall— were the first party to call for a windfall tax on the big oil and gas companies, because we saw the raw injustice _ companies, because we saw the raw injustice of— companies, because we saw the raw injustice of these big companies raking _ injustice of these big companies raking in— injustice of these big companies raking in billions of profits when ordinary— raking in billions of profits when ordinary folk couldn't afford to pay their energy bills. that is one example _ their energy bills. that is one example of how we will tax fairly in this country. we example of how we will tax fairly in this country-— example of how we will tax fairly in this country. we need to move on to our next question. _ this country. we need to move on to our next question. thank _ this country. we need to move on to our next question. thank you - this country. we need to move on to our next question. thank you for- our next question. thank you for your responses to that one. our next question comes from linder myers. good evening. why is it when parties want your vote they promise things, but when they are elected nothing gets done? applause penny mordaunt? laughter well, this is why the prime minister made _ well, this is why the prime minister made the _ well, this is why the prime minister made the very— well, this is why the prime minister made the very clear _ well, this is why the prime minister made the very clear pledges - well, this is why the prime minister made the very clear pledges that i well, this is why the prime ministerj made the very clear pledges that he did, and _ made the very clear pledges that he did, and you — made the very clear pledges that he did, and you can— made the very clear pledges that he did, and you can measure _ made the very clear pledges that he did, and you can measure the - did, and you can measure the progress _ did, and you can measure the progress being _ did, and you can measure the progress being made - did, and you can measure the progress being made againstl did, and you can measure the - progress being made against them. we are making _ progress being made against them. we are making progress _ progress being made against them. we are making progress in _ progress being made against them. we are making progress in this— progress being made against them. we are making progress in this country. . are making progress in this country. we have _ are making progress in this country. we have been— are making progress in this country. we have been through _ are making progress in this country. we have been through some - are making progress in this country. we have been through some very i are making progress in this country. i we have been through some very hard times— we have been through some very hard times but— we have been through some very hard times but the — we have been through some very hard times but the recovery _ we have been through some very hard times but the recovery is _ we have been through some very hard times but the recovery is there. - times but the recovery is there. what _ times but the recovery is there. what we — times but the recovery is there. what we must _ times but the recovery is there. what we must ensure _ times but the recovery is there. what we must ensure is - times but the recovery is there. what we must ensure is that. times but the recovery is there. i what we must ensure is that that times but the recovery is there. - what we must ensure is that that is not choked — what we must ensure is that that is not choked off, _ what we must ensure is that that is not choked off, and _ what we must ensure is that that is not choked off, and we _ what we must ensure is that that is not choked off, and we must- what we must ensure is that that is| not choked off, and we must ensure that your— not choked off, and we must ensure that your taxes _ not choked off, and we must ensure that your taxes are _ not choked off, and we must ensure that your taxes are being _ not choked off, and we must ensure that your taxes are being lowered i that your taxes are being lowered to. that your taxes are being lowered to that _ that your taxes are being lowered to that is— that your taxes are being lowered to that is the _ that your taxes are being lowered to. that is the pledge _ that your taxes are being lowered to. that is the pledge that- that your taxes are being lowered to. that is the pledge that we - that your taxes are being lowered i to. that is the pledge that we make to. that is the pledge that we make to you _ to. that is the pledge that we make to you and — to. that is the pledge that we make to you. and that _ to. that is the pledge that we make to you. and that is— to. that is the pledge that we make to you. and that is what _ to. that is the pledge that we make to you. and that is what we - to. that is the pledge that we make to you. and that is what we have i to you. and that is what we have been _ to you. and that is what we have been doing — to you. and that is what we have been doing with _ to you. and that is what we have been doing with national- to you. and that is what we have i been doing with national insurance cuts that— been doing with national insurance cuts that we — been doing with national insurance cuts that we have _ been doing with national insurance cuts that we have seen _ been doing with national insurance cuts that we have seen this - been doing with national insurance cuts that we have seen this year. i cuts that we have seen this year. that _ cuts that we have seen this year. that is— cuts that we have seen this year. that is what _ cuts that we have seen this year. that is what you _ cuts that we have seen this year. that is what you need. _ cuts that we have seen this year. that is what you need. it's - cuts that we have seen this year. that is what you need. it's not. cuts that we have seen this year. i that is what you need. it's notjust your— that is what you need. it's notjust your taxes— that is what you need. it's notjust your taxes that _ that is what you need. it's notjust your taxes that i'm _ that is what you need. it's notjust your taxes that i'm worried - that is what you need. it's notjust your taxes that i'm worried about. | your taxes that i'm worried about. i'm worried — your taxes that i'm worried about. i'm worried about _ your taxes that i'm worried about. i'm worried about my— your taxes that i'm worried about. i'm worried about my constituents being _ i'm worried about my constituents being able — i'm worried about my constituents being able to _ i'm worried about my constituents being able to afford _ i'm worried about my constituents being able to afford a _ i'm worried about my constituents being able to afford a labour - being able to afford a labour government. _ being able to afford a labour government. angela - being able to afford a labour. government. angela mentioned being able to afford a labour - government. angela mentioned gb energy _ government. angela mentioned gb energy do — government. angela mentioned gb energy do you _ government. angela mentioned gb energy do you know— government. angela mentioned gb energy. do you know what - government. angela mentioned gb energy. do you know what the - government. angela mentioned gb energy. do you know what the gb i energy. do you know what the gb stands _ energy. do you know what the gb stands for? — energy. do you know what the gb stands for? giant _ energy. do you know what the gb stands for? giant bills. _ energy. do you know what the gb stands for? giant bills. and - energy. do you know what the gb stands for? giant bills. and more| stands for? giant bills. and more bills are — stands for? giant bills. and more bills are coming _ stands for? giant bills. and more bills are coming with _ stands for? giant bills. and more bills are coming with a _ stands for? giant bills. and more bills are coming with a net - stands for? giant bills. and more bills are coming with a net zero i bills are coming with a net zero plans— bills are coming with a net zero plans that _ bills are coming with a net zero plans that labour— bills are coming with a net zero plans that labour have. - bills are coming with a net zero plans that labour have. that i bills are coming with a net zero plans that labour have. that is| bills are coming with a net zero . plans that labour have. that is the most _ plans that labour have. that is the most important _ plans that labour have. that is the most important thing, _ plans that labour have. that is the most important thing, because - most important thing, because everything _ most important thing, because everything depends— most important thing, because everything depends on- most important thing, because everything depends on you - most important thing, because i everything depends on you having that disposable _ everything depends on you having that disposable income. - everything depends on you having that disposable income. that- everything depends on you having that disposable income. that is. everything depends on you having i that disposable income. that is why tax is _ that disposable income. that is why tax is at _ that disposable income. that is why tax is at the — that disposable income. that is why tax is at the heart _ that disposable income. that is why tax is at the heart of _ that disposable income. that is why tax is at the heart of this. _ that disposable income. that is why tax is at the heart of this. the - tax is at the heart of this. the pledges — tax is at the heart of this. the pledges that _ tax is at the heart of this. the pledges that we _ tax is at the heart of this. the pledges that we are _ tax is at the heart of this. the pledges that we are making i tax is at the heart of this. the | pledges that we are making to tax is at the heart of this. the - pledges that we are making to you on cutting _ pledges that we are making to you on cutting your— pledges that we are making to you on cutting your taxes _ pledges that we are making to you on cutting your taxes and _ pledges that we are making to you on cutting your taxes and what _ cutting your taxes and what labour will not _ cutting your taxes and what labour will not tell— cutting your taxes and what labour will not tell you _ cutting your taxes and what labour will not tell you about _ cutting your taxes and what labour will not tell you about the - cutting your taxes and what labour will not tell you about the taxes i will not tell you about the taxes they are — will not tell you about the taxes they are going _ will not tell you about the taxes they are going to _ will not tell you about the taxes they are going to put _ will not tell you about the taxes they are going to put in - will not tell you about the taxes they are going to put in place. i will not tell you about the taxes i they are going to put in place. but ersonal they are going to put in place. personal taxes, they are going to put in place. personaltaxes, penny they are going to put in placem personal taxes, penny mordaunt, they are going to put in place.- personal taxes, penny mordaunt, are still rising overall due to the freezing of income tax threshold you brought in. freezing of income tax threshold you brou:ht in. ., ., ~' ., ., ,., brought in. look, we have had some very difficult — brought in. look, we have had some very difficult times. _ brought in. look, we have had some very difficult times. we _ brought in. look, we have had some very difficult times. we have - brought in. look, we have had some very difficult times. we have had - brought in. look, we have had some very difficult times. we have had to | very difficult times. we have had to spend _ very difficult times. we have had to spend a _ very difficult times. we have had to spend a lot — very difficult times. we have had to spend a lot of— very difficult times. we have had to spend a lot of money _ very difficult times. we have had to spend a lot of money on _ very difficult times. we have had to spend a lot of money on things - very difficult times. we have had to spend a lot of money on things like| spend a lot of money on things like furlough _ spend a lot of money on things like furlough that _ spend a lot of money on things like furlough. that was _ spend a lot of money on things like furlough. that was the _ spend a lot of money on things like furlough. that was the right - spend a lot of money on things like furlough. that was the right thing i furlough. that was the right thing to do. _ furlough. that was the right thing to do. to — furlough. that was the right thing to do. to keep— furlough. that was the right thing to do, to keepjobs_ furlough. that was the right thing to do, to keepjobs and _ furlough. that was the right thingl to do, to keepjobs and livelihoods going. _ to do, to keepjobs and livelihoods going. not— to do, to keepjobs and livelihoods going. notjust— to do, to keepjobs and livelihoods going, notjust hand _ to do, to keepjobs and livelihoods going, notjust hand out— to do, to keepjobs and livelihoods going, notjust hand out welfare i going, notjust hand out welfare payments — going, notjust hand out welfare payments. the _ going, notjust hand out welfare payments. the pandemic- going, notjust hand out welfare payments. the pandemic has. going, notjust hand out welfare i payments. the pandemic has been expensive — payments. the pandemic has been expensive and _ payments. the pandemic has been expensive. and we _ payments. the pandemic has been expensive. and we have _ payments. the pandemic has been expensive. and we have also - payments. the pandemic has been expensive. and we have also had i expensive. and we have also had terrible _ expensive. and we have also had terrible global— expensive. and we have also had terrible global shocks. _ expensive. and we have also had terrible global shocks. we - expensive. and we have also had terrible global shocks. we have i expensive. and we have also had i terrible global shocks. we have had to step _ terrible global shocks. we have had to step in _ terrible global shocks. we have had to step in and — terrible global shocks. we have had to step in and pay— terrible global shocks. we have had to step in and pay people's- terrible global shocks. we have had to step in and pay people's energy. to step in and pay people's energy bills _ to step in and pay people's energy bills but — to step in and pay people's energy bills but we — to step in and pay people's energy bills. but we are _ to step in and pay people's energy bills. but we are coming _ to step in and pay people's energy bills. but we are coming through i bills. but we are coming through that, _ bills. but we are coming through that, thanks _ bills. but we are coming through that, thanks to _ bills. but we are coming through that, thanks to your _ bills. but we are coming through that, thanks to your efforts. - bills. but we are coming throughl that, thanks to your efforts. what you need — that, thanks to your efforts. what you need now— that, thanks to your efforts. what you need now is _ that, thanks to your efforts. what you need now is disposable - that, thanks to your efforts. what. you need now is disposable income that, thanks to your efforts. what - you need now is disposable income in your pockets — you need now is disposable income in your pockets you _ you need now is disposable income in your pockets. you need _ you need now is disposable income in your pockets. you need taxes - you need now is disposable income in your pockets. you need taxes to - you need now is disposable income in your pockets. you need taxes to be i your pockets. you need taxes to be cut. your pockets. you need taxes to be cut we _ your pockets. you need taxes to be cut we have — your pockets. you need taxes to be cut. we have announced _ your pockets. you need taxes to be cut. we have announced already. your pockets. you need taxes to be i cut. we have announced already that we are _ cut. we have announced already that we are making — cut. we have announced already that we are making cuts _ cut. we have announced already that we are making cuts on _ cut. we have announced already that we are making cuts on your- cut. we have announced already that we are making cuts on your taxes - we are making cuts on your taxes regarding — we are making cuts on your taxes regarding your— we are making cuts on your taxes regarding your home, _ we are making cuts on your taxes regarding your home, your- we are making cuts on your taxes i regarding your home, your pension, work _ regarding your home, your pension, work we _ regarding your home, your pension, work we need _ regarding your home, your pension, work. we need to _ regarding your home, your pension, work. we need to continue - regarding your home, your pension, work. we need to continue to - regarding your home, your pension, work. we need to continue to do - work. we need to continue to do that _ work. we need to continue to do that if— work. we need to continue to do that if you — work. we need to continue to do that if you get _ work. we need to continue to do that. if you get asked, _ work. we need to continue to do that. if you get asked, we - work. we need to continue to do that. if you get asked, we will. that. if you get asked, we will reduce — that. if you get asked, we will reduce your— that. if you get asked, we will reduce your taxes. _ that. if you get asked, we will reduce your taxes. that - that. if you get asked, we will reduce your taxes. that is- that. if you get asked, we will reduce your taxes. that is in. that. if you get asked, we will. reduce your taxes. that is in our dna— reduce your taxes. that is in our dna is— reduce your taxes. that is in our dna is conservatives. _ reduce your taxes. that is in our dna is conservatives. that - reduce your taxes. that is in our dna is conservatives. that is i reduce your taxes. that is in ouri dna is conservatives. that is not what _ dna is conservatives. that is not what is _ dna is conservatives. that is not what is in — dna is conservatives. that is not what is in labour's_ dna is conservatives. that is not what is in labour's dna. - dna is conservatives. that is not what is in labour's dna. they- dna is conservatives. that is not. what is in labour's dna. they always put up _ what is in labour's dna. they always put up taxes~ — what is in labour's dna. they always put up taxes. they _ what is in labour's dna. they always put up taxes. they will _ what is in labour's dna. they always put up taxes. they will put - what is in labour's dna. they always put up taxes. they will put yours - what is in labour's dna. they always put up taxes. they will put yours up| put up taxes. they will put yours up by e2000~ — put up taxes. they will put yours up by e2000. they _ put up taxes. they will put yours up by £2000. they will _ put up taxes. they will put yours up by £2000. they will increase - put up taxes. they will put yours up by £2000. they will increase your i by £2000. they will increase your energy— by £2000. they will increase your energy bills — by £2000. they will increase your energy bills and _ by £2000. they will increase your energy bills and you _ by £2000. they will increase your energy bills and you will— by £2000. they will increase your energy bills and you will get - by £2000. they will increase your energy bills and you will get a - energy bills and you will get a whole — energy bills and you will get a whole lot _ energy bills and you will get a whole lot of— energy bills and you will get a whole lot of costs _ energy bills and you will get a whole lot of costs with - energy bills and you will get a whole lot of costs with their i energy bills and you will get a i whole lot of costs with their net zero _ whole lot of costs with their net zero plans~ _ whole lot of costs with their net zero plans. my— whole lot of costs with their net zero plans. my constituents - whole lot of costs with their net. zero plans. my constituents cannot afford _ zero plans. my constituents cannot afford that — zero plans. my constituents cannot afford that. ., zero plans. my constituents cannot afford that-— zero plans. my constituents cannot afford that. ., ., ., , ., ., afford that. you cannot afford that. penny mordaunt, _ afford that. you cannot afford that. penny mordaunt, i— afford that. you cannot afford that. penny mordaunt, iwill— afford that. you cannot afford that. penny mordaunt, i will stop - afford that. you cannot afford that. penny mordaunt, i will stop you i afford that. you cannot afford that. l penny mordaunt, i will stop you and point out that the top civil servant in the treasury said the conservative document that included the costs you refer to went beyond those provided by the civil service. nigel farage?_ those provided by the civil service. nigel farage? linda, i have to say, i think nigel farage? linda, i have to say, lthinkthis — nigel farage? linda, i have to say, i think this has _ nigel farage? linda, i have to say, i think this has been _ nigel farage? linda, i have to say, i think this has been one _ nigel farage? linda, i have to say, i think this has been one of- nigel farage? linda, i have to say, i think this has been one of the - i think this has been one of the worst general election campaigns between two main parties i have ever seenin between two main parties i have ever seen in my lifetime. it isn'tjust that their leaders are dull, or very dull in the case of labour. sort of player without the flower. the real leader of the labour party is here tonight on the stage. at least she's got some personality. rishi sunak has fed all the lines to penny mordaunt — don't believe any of it. i don'tjust think our public services are broken, i think our political model is broken. the arguments going on on the other side of the room here. the truth is, they don't really disagree on anything. fictitious numbers like £2000, £3000, and that is why reform have risen so quickly in the polls. there was a sense we needed revolt against the system. we need an electoral system where we get some proportional representation in parliament. we need to break up the current model. we will get a new kind of politics in britain and we mightjust get some real change. what we are being offered, frankly, are two parties promising the earth and nothing much will change, regardless of who gets in, although i think the breach of trust on manifestos with the conservatives means they are probably sunk below the waterline. new politics, fresh start, we want a revolt from the british people. that's what i'm after. �* . british people. that's what i'm after. ~ ., ., after. angela rayner, has labour one back after. angela rayner, has labour gone back on _ after. angela rayner, has labour gone back on any _ after. angela rayner, has labour gone back on any of— after. angela rayner, has labour gone back on any of its _ after. angela rayner, has labour gone back on any of its pledges? j after. angela rayner, has labour. gone back on any of its pledges? to be fair, it is always all about nigel. — be fair, it is always all about nigel, and we have had this sort of clown— nigel, and we have had this sort of clown personality before with boris johnson _ clown personality before with boris johnson. penny talked about the pandemic. he was breaking lockdown rules and _ pandemic. he was breaking lockdown rules and spending millions on crony contracts~ _ rules and spending millions on crony contracts. the rules and spending millions on crony contracts. , ., ., , ., contracts. the question was that when parties _ contracts. the question was that when parties want _ contracts. the question was that when parties want your - contracts. the question was that when parties want your vote - contracts. the question was that | when parties want your vote they promise everything but nothing gets done. it promise everything but nothing gets done. ., , ., , �* , promise everything but nothing gets done. ., , .,, �*, , promise everything but nothing gets done. ., , �*, , ~ ., done. it eroded people's trust. at a time when — done. it eroded people's trust. at a time when people _ done. it eroded people's trust. at a time when people wanted - done. it eroded people's trust. at a time when people wanted the - time when people wanted the government to do the right thing, they didn't. government to do the right thing, they didn't-— government to do the right thing, the didn't. ., , ., ., , , they didn't. have you ever dropped any pleasure? _ they didn't. have you ever dropped any pleasure? they _ they didn't. have you ever dropped any pleasure? they disrespected i any pleasure? they disrespected them. we any pleasure? they disrespected them- we set — any pleasure? they disrespected them. we set out _ any pleasure? they disrespected them. we set out the _ any pleasure? they disrespected them. we set out the pledges i any pleasure? they disrespected - them. we set out the pledges before them. we set out the pledges before the crash _ them. we set out the pledges before the crash. the tories had crashed the crash. the tories had crashed the economy. we have been honest in this election — the economy. we have been honest in this election. people talked about some _ this election. people talked about some of— this election. people talked about some of the things they would like us to— some of the things they would like us to do. _ some of the things they would like us to do, like the two child limit. we have — us to do, like the two child limit. we have been clear, we will not promise — we have been clear, we will not promise anything that we cannot fund, _ promise anything that we cannot fund, and — promise anything that we cannot fund, and we have been absolutely clear~ _ fund, and we have been absolutely clear~ the — fund, and we have been absolutely clear. the tories have imposed a record _ clear. the tories have imposed a record number of tax hikes on people in this— record number of tax hikes on people in this country. if we get in, labour— in this country. if we get in, labour will not put taxes up for working — labour will not put taxes up for working people of this country. but ou are. working people of this country. you are. i'm working people of this country. emit you are. i'm going to... penny mordaunt, you have had your say. carla, penny mordaunt, thank you. carla, penny mordaunt, thank you. carla denyer, you are next. he is auoin to carla denyer, you are next. he is going to put _ carla denyer, you are next. he is going to put them _ carla denyer, you are next. he is going to put them up _ carla denyer, you are next. he is going to put them up £2000. - carla denyer, you are next. he is. going to put them up £2000. that's our going to put them up £2000. that's your figure! — going to put them up £2000. that's your figure! lt's _ going to put them up £2000. that's your figure! it's rubbish! _ going to put them up £2000. that's your figure! it's rubbish! linda, - going to put them up £2000. that's your figure! it's rubbish! linda, i- your figure! it's rubbish! linda, i share your _ your figure! it's rubbish! linda, i share your frustration. _ your figure! it's rubbish! linda, i share your frustration. when - your figure! it's rubbish! linda, i share your frustration. when i i your figure! it's rubbish! linda, i. share your frustration. when i was younger, i had little to no faith that politics had the potential to make the country a better place, but let's remember, politics at its root is about people, people's lives, people's bank accounts, their future, their health, their happiness, and that is why after meeting some green party members in my 20s, i realised that the green party is different. that's why i joined, that's why i got involved. as several of the other panellists have already pointed out, as labour drop pledge after pledge, policy after policy, slide further and further towards the conservatives so that you can barely get a cigarette paper between them, the argument for voting for a bit of diversity in the house of commons becomes ever stronger. in terms of answering your question, linda, about parties keeping their promises, the green party when ijoined it in 2011 was a pretty small and young party, but we are coming of age. we have increased our number of councillors nearly fivefold over the past few years in local elections. the fivefold over the past few years in local elections.— local elections. the question was about pledges- — local elections. the question was about pledges. stephen - local elections. the question was about pledges. stephen flynn? l local elections. the question was| about pledges. stephen flynn? if local elections. the question was - about pledges. stephen flynn? if we want to talk about _ about pledges. stephen flynn? if we want to talk about pledges, in the scottish— want to talk about pledges, in the scottish context, i can provide you with a _ scottish context, i can provide you with a view— scottish context, i can provide you with a view that had been delivered. 100,000 _ with a view that had been delivered. 100,000 children in poverty are being _ 100,000 children in poverty are being lifted out of poverty thanks to the _ being lifted out of poverty thanks to the scottish child payment, which doesn't _ to the scottish child payment, which doesn't exist anywhere else on the science _ doesn't exist anywhere else on the science. the snp has put it in place — science. the snp has put it in place 0f— science. the snp has put it in place. of course, ouryoung science. the snp has put it in place. of course, our young people do not _ place. of course, our young people do not pay — place. of course, our young people do not pay a — place. of course, our young people do not pay a single penny in tuition fees _ do not pay a single penny in tuition fees we _ do not pay a single penny in tuition fees. we have something we know the audience _ fees. we have something we know the audience as— fees. we have something we know the audience as scotland would love to have, _ audience as scotland would love to have, which is a nationalised water company — have, which is a nationalised water company. we also delivered nationalised rail, 40% more affordable homes than in england, 70% more — affordable homes than in england, 70% more than in wales. ultimately, it's about _ 70% more than in wales. ultimately, it's about keeping our promise to the scottish people. i would contest. _ the scottish people. i would contest, i would say the labour party— contest, i would say the labour party and — contest, i would say the labour party and the conservatives are being _ party and the conservatives are being very honest with you about what _ being very honest with you about what the — being very honest with you about what the future holds. the problem is, it is— what the future holds. the problem is, it is e18 — what the future holds. the problem is, it is £18 billion worth of public— is, it is £18 billion worth of public service cuts. gn is, it is £18 billion worth of public service cuts. is, it is £18 billion worth of ublic service cuts. , , ., public service cuts. on pledges, one of our public service cuts. on pledges, one of your pledges. _ public service cuts. on pledges, one of your pledges, that _ public service cuts. on pledges, one of your pledges, that you _ public service cuts. on pledges, one of your pledges, that you would - of your pledges, that you would close the attainment gap in a decade between pupils from the richest and most deprived areas of scotland today remains considerable. find today remains considerable. and indeed we are _ today remains considerable. and indeed we are making significant progress — indeed we are making significant progress in relation to that. poverty— progress in relation to that. poverty and the attainment gap are interlinked. the levers of power are the property are determined by westminster, because all roads do in lead dash— westminster, because all roads do in lead dash might indeed lead back to westminster. lead dash might indeed lead back to westminster-— lead dash might indeed lead back to | westminster._ this westminster. rhun ap lorwerth? this is around integrity _ westminster. rhun ap lorwerth? this is around integrity and _ westminster. rhun ap lorwerth? this is around integrity and the _ westminster. rhun ap lorwerth? this is around integrity and the loss - westminster. rhun ap lorwerth? this is around integrity and the loss of- is around integrity and the loss of trust. this is about... as a journalist, from the outside, i could see the apathy and cynicism from down the street parties. the cynicism dripping by a leader of government in wales accepting a £200,000 payment from a convicted environmental polluter who was looking for planning permission from the government, and refusing to see that that looks wrong in people plus my eyes. we need to rebuild that trust. two words — honesty and fairness. in the rows between labour and conservatives on taxation this evening, we have to have honesty about taxation. we cannot drive taxation forever down and expect to have high levels of public services, can we? and fairness — we have to have a system that protects people like you. why should rishi sunak on his £2 million income, largely from investments, pay less tax than you do on hard graft going out to work during the day because mike that is the kind of unfairness within the taxation system that really undermines trust. i taxation system that really undermines trust.- taxation system that really undermines trust. ., ,, ., ,y undermines trust. i work from daisy coo er on undermines trust. i work from daisy cooper on this- _ undermines trust. i work from daisy cooper on this. -- _ undermines trust. i work from daisy cooper on this. -- a _ undermines trust. i work from daisy cooper on this. -- a word. - we've had promise after promise, 40 new hospitals, 6000 gps, this parliament has been characterised by lawbreaking, lying and the economic illiteracy— lawbreaking, lying and the economic illiteracy of the mini budget and of all the _ illiteracy of the mini budget and of all the things the conservatives have _ all the things the conservatives have broken, the worst thing they've broken _ have broken, the worst thing they've broken his— have broken, the worst thing they've broken his people poss 's thope. dy: you broken his people poss 's thope. idrr'r you remember going back on the tuition fees pledge? applause that is a sore subject for us, for sure _ that is a sore subject for us, for sure that— that is a sore subject for us, for sure. that was a very difficult decision, _ sure. that was a very difficult decision, but let's remember it was the conservatives who in 2015 withdrew _ the conservatives who in 2015 withdrew the maintenance grants for young _ withdrew the maintenance grants for young people from the lowest backgrounds which had stopped many of them _ backgrounds which had stopped many of them going to university but my point _ of them going to university but my point is _ of them going to university but my point is this election is about hope and its— point is this election is about hope and it's about change. many do come into politics _ and it's about change. many do come into politics for the right reason and for— into politics for the right reason and for any of you who have seen the party— and for any of you who have seen the party political broadcast by ed davey — party political broadcast by ed davey talking about his experiences as a carer— davey talking about his experiences as a carer for his disabled son, you will be _ as a carer for his disabled son, you will be in _ as a carer for his disabled son, you will be in no — as a carer for his disabled son, you will be in no doubt he is in politics— will be in no doubt he is in politics for the right reason, that we are _ politics for the right reason, that we are committed to fixing the nhs. thank— we are committed to fixing the nhs. thank you. _ we are committed to fixing the nhs. thank you, our next question, from lucy hobday. thank you, our next question, from lucy hobday— lucy hobday. what happens to you more, economic— lucy hobday. what happens to you more, economic growth _ lucy hobday. what happens to you more, economic growth or - more, economic growth or successful climate _ more, economic growth or successful climate policy? — more, economic growth or successful climate policy?— climate policy? thank you, lucy. niel -- climate policy? thank you, lucy. nigel -- nigel— climate policy? thank you, lucy. nigel -- nigel farage. _ climate policy? thank you, lucy. nigel -- nigel farage. at - climate policy? thank you, lucy. nigel -- nigel farage. at the i climate policy? thank you, lucy. - nigel -- nigel farage. at the moment we are pursuing _ nigel -- nigel farage. at the moment we are pursuing a _ nigel -- nigel farage. at the moment we are pursuing a completely - we are pursuing a completely unrealistic climate policy. the labour pledge to decarbonise by 2030 will not happen just as the conservative pledge to decarbonise the grid by 2035 will not happen. not only is it impossible, it's actually unaffordable. so we have to be grown—up and sensible. if we get new technologies to give us cheap energy or better ways of manufacturing things, that's great, but what we are doing in this country is we are sacrificing economic growth. we've been massacring british manufacturing and isn't it marvellous, we've reduced carbon emissions more than any other western country, we haven't. what we've done is to export carbon emissions when our steelworks go to india or our car manufacture moved to china, or to turkey, or wherever it is. we are living in a full supposed of the paradise in this. i mentioned earlier about the cost of living, we've been chucking 20% on people's electricity bills now for 20 years to pay for very inefficient wind energy, so what's really happening with net zero, what's happening with net zero, what's happening with net zero, what's happening with the attempt to deal with climate change, not that we can, because we produce less than 1% of the world's carbon dioxide and the chinese are building 80 new coal—fired pious to —— power stations every year. we should not forget, we are not going to need oil and gas for the next 30 years, we will be using...— will be using... thank you, nigel faraue, will be using... thank you, nigel farage. l'm _ will be using... thank you, nigel farage. i'm going _ will be using... thank you, nigel farage, i'm going to _ will be using... thank you, nigel farage, i'm going to turn - will be using... thank you, nigel farage, i'm going to turn to - will be using... thank you, nigel| farage, i'm going to turn to colin when next. what matters to you, economic growth or successful climate policy?— economic growth or successful climate policy? nigel farage has been misleading _ climate policy? nigel farage has been misleading you. _ climate policy? nigel farage has been misleading you. i'm - climate policy? nigel farage has been misleading you. i'm an - been misleading you. i'm an engineer~ _ been misleading you. i'm an engineer~ i_ been misleading you. i'm an engineer. i used _ been misleading you. i'm an engineer. i used to- been misleading you. i'm an engineer. i used to work- been misleading you. i'm an engineer. i used to work in. been misleading you. i'm an. engineer. i used to work in the renewable _ engineer. i used to work in the renewable energy— engineer. i used to work in the renewable energy sector. - engineer. i used to work in the renewable energy sector. i- engineer. i used to work in the i renewable energy sector. i know engineer. i used to work in the - renewable energy sector. i know how wind farms _ renewable energy sector. i know how wind farms work _ renewable energy sector. i know how wind farms work. so _ renewable energy sector. i know how wind farms work. so much _ renewable energy sector. i know how wind farms work. so much of- renewable energy sector. i know how wind farms work. so much of what i renewable energy sector. i know how| wind farms work. so much of what he said there _ wind farms work. so much of what he said there is — wind farms work. so much of what he said there is simply— wind farms work. so much of what he said there is simply untrue. _ said there is simply untrue. subsidy _ said there is simply untrue. subsid . , ., said there is simply untrue. subsid. ,, ., , , said there is simply untrue. subsid. ~' ., , , �* subsidy. everyone knows they can't trust the conservatives _ subsidy. everyone knows they can't trust the conservatives of _ subsidy. everyone knows they can't trust the conservatives of reform i trust the conservatives of reform when _ trust the conservatives of reform when it _ trust the conservatives of reform when it comes _ trust the conservatives of reform when it comes to _ trust the conservatives of reform when it comes to climate - trust the conservatives of reform when it comes to climate and - trust the conservatives of reform i when it comes to climate and that's part of— when it comes to climate and that's part of the — when it comes to climate and that's part of the reason _ when it comes to climate and that's part of the reason why _ when it comes to climate and that's part of the reason why the - part of the reason why the conservatives _ part of the reason why the conservatives are - part of the reason why the conservatives are on - part of the reason why the conservatives are on their| part of the reason why the - conservatives are on their way out at the _ conservatives are on their way out at the general— conservatives are on their way out at the general election _ conservatives are on their way out at the general election but - conservatives are on their way out at the general election but what i at the general election but what people — at the general election but what people have _ at the general election but what people have been _ at the general election but what people have been saying - at the general election but what people have been saying to - at the general election but what people have been saying to mel at the general election but what i people have been saying to me on at the general election but what - people have been saying to me on the doorsteps— people have been saying to me on the doorsteps in— people have been saying to me on the doorsteps in bristol— people have been saying to me on the doorsteps in bristol and _ people have been saying to me on the doorsteps in bristol and elsewhere - doorsteps in bristol and elsewhere is they— doorsteps in bristol and elsewhere is they are — doorsteps in bristol and elsewhere is they are sorely _ doorsteps in bristol and elsewhere is they are sorely disappointed - doorsteps in bristol and elsewhere is they are sorely disappointed in i is they are sorely disappointed in the labour— is they are sorely disappointed in the labour party— is they are sorely disappointed in the labour party too, _ is they are sorely disappointed in the labour party too, who - is they are sorely disappointed in the labour party too, who have i the labour party too, who have rolled _ the labour party too, who have rolled back— the labour party too, who have rolled back on _ the labour party too, who have rolled back on their— the labour party too, who have rolled back on their previouslyl rolled back on their previously flagship — rolled back on their previously flagship climate _ rolled back on their previously flagship climate investment i rolled back on their previously- flagship climate investment pledge, one of the _ flagship climate investment pledge, one of the few— flagship climate investment pledge, one of the few good _ flagship climate investment pledge, one of the few good policies - flagship climate investment pledge, one of the few good policies they. one of the few good policies they had left. — one of the few good policies they had left, when _ one of the few good policies they had left, when it— one of the few good policies they had left, when it totally- one of the few good policies they had left, when it totally clear - one of the few good policies they had left, when it totally clear we| had left, when it totally clear we need to — had left, when it totally clear we need to tackle _ had left, when it totally clear we need to tackle the _ had left, when it totally clear we need to tackle the climate crisis| need to tackle the climate crisis and that— need to tackle the climate crisis and that doing so _ need to tackle the climate crisis and that doing so brings- need to tackle the climate crisis and that doing so brings so- need to tackle the climate crisisl and that doing so brings so many other— and that doing so brings so many other benefits. _ and that doing so brings so many other benefits. insulating - and that doing so brings so many other benefits. insulating our- other benefits. insulating our homes. — other benefits. insulating our homes. a _ other benefits. insulating our homes, a nationwide - other benefits. insulating our. homes, a nationwide insulation programme _ homes, a nationwide insulation programme will bring - homes, a nationwide insulation programme will bring down - homes, a nationwide insulation programme will bring down our homes, a nationwide insulation- programme will bring down our bills and give _ programme will bring down our bills and give us — programme will bring down our bills and give us more _ programme will bring down our bills and give us more comfortable - programme will bring down our billsl and give us more comfortable homes for type _ and give us more comfortable homes for type you've — and give us more comfortable homes for type you've dropped _ and give us more comfortable homes for type you've dropped the - and give us more comfortable homes for type you've dropped the £28 - for type you've dropped the £28 billion— for type you've dropped the £28 billion a — for type you've dropped the £28 billion a year— for type you've dropped the £28 billion a year green _ for type you've dropped the £28 billion a year green investmentl billion a year green investment pledge — billion a year green investment pledge earlier— billion a year green investment pledge earlier this— billion a year green investment pledge earlier this year? - billion a year green investment pledge earlier this year? me i billion a year green investment pledge earlier this year? we said we will invest in — pledge earlier this year? we said we will invest in our _ pledge earlier this year? we said we will invest in our green _ pledge earlier this year? we said we will invest in our green prosperity i will invest in our green prosperity plan because i was lucy's question was put to us, actually we do need to look at economic growth and it's not divorced from also looking at climate policies. we can't ignore the fact we do have to change and nigel says we have to use oil and gas and you are right and we've recognised that, that that will be part of the future, but it won't be for ever, so we do have to have a green transition and that's why the green prosperity plan is all about creating those jobs, green prosperity plan is all about creating thosejobs, insulating homes and having our self reliant energy needs for the future through great british energy.— energy needs for the future through great british energy. stephen flynn, the snp? lt's — great british energy. stephen flynn, the snp? it's worthwhile _ great british energy. stephen flynn, the snp? it's worthwhile by - the snp? it's worthwhile by addressing _ the snp? it's worthwhile by addressing the _ the snp? it's worthwhile by addressing the question - the snp? it's worthwhile by - addressing the question head-on. the snp? it's worthwhile by _ addressing the question head-on. net addressing the question head—on. net zero is _ addressing the question head—on. net zero is economic growth and it's not gb energy — zero is economic growth and it's not gb energy, it's scotland's energy, scotland's — gb energy, it's scotland's energy, scotland's wind, scotland's reyes, scotland _ scotland's wind, scotland's reyes, scotland that's going to provide the carbon— scotland that's going to provide the carbon capture and storage and scotland — carbon capture and storage and scotland that will have the green hydrogen economy of the future. the americans— hydrogen economy of the future. the americans are investing in it, europe — americans are investing in it, europe and the middle east and beyond — europe and the middle east and beyond investing in it and the uk needs— beyond investing in it and the uk needs to — beyond investing in it and the uk needs to invest too. the opportunities are huge but we have to grasp _ opportunities are huge but we have to grasp them. i'm afraid what we're seeing _ to grasp them. i'm afraid what we're seeing at _ to grasp them. i'm afraid what we're seeing at westminster is a betrayal of the _ seeing at westminster is a betrayal of the future generations. a party walking _ of the future generations. a party walking away from £28 billion worth of investment, which would have been transformative. with the snp will -et transformative. with the snp will get that— transformative. with the snp will get that commitment to a just transition to reaching net zero, to protect— transition to reaching net zero, to protect and — transition to reaching net zero, to protect and create newjobs for the future _ protect and create new 'obs for the future. ~ ., ., , ., ., ., ., future. what does that mean for oil and as in future. what does that mean for oil and gas in the _ future. what does that mean for oil and gas in the north _ future. what does that mean for oil and gas in the north sea? - future. what does that mean for oil and gas in the north sea? i - future. what does that mean for oil and gas in the north sea? i was - and gas in the north sea? i was aoian and gas in the north sea? i was aoain to and gas in the north sea? i was going to come _ and gas in the north sea? i was going to come to _ and gas in the north sea? i was going to come to that, - and gas in the north sea? i wasj going to come to that, helpfully enough — going to come to that, helpfully enough. what angela said in relation to oil and _ enough. what angela said in relation to oil and gas, there are three possessions, there's the conservative party position that oil and gas _ conservative party position that oil and gas is — conservative party position that oil and gas is going to exist forever. i'm afraid — and gas is going to exist forever. i'm afraid it's not and i can say that— i'm afraid it's not and i can say that with — i'm afraid it's not and i can say that with some certainty given where i live _ that with some certainty given where i live the _ that with some certainty given where i live. the labour party position is to shut _ i live. the labour party position is to shut down the north sea oil and -as to shut down the north sea oil and gas sector— to shut down the north sea oil and gas sector which would risk 100,000 jobs. _ gas sector which would risk 100,000 jobs. not _ gas sector which would risk 100,000 jobs, not my numbers, independent experts _ jobs, not my numbers, independent experts on _ jobs, not my numbers, independent experts on what the unite union call putting _ experts on what the unite union call putting people on the scrapheap. there _ putting people on the scrapheap. there is— putting people on the scrapheap. there is a — putting people on the scrapheap. there is a sensible middle ground which _ there is a sensible middle ground which allows us to invest in net zeroa _ which allows us to invest in net zero, protect the jobs of tomorrow and that's— zero, protect the jobs of tomorrow and that's what the snp offers. you didn't want to _ and that's what the snp offers. gm. didn't want to put a levy on the oil and gas companies, we talked about a transition... you and gas companies, we talked about a transition- - -— transition... you are talking about--- — transition... you are talking about... we _ transition... you are talking about... we recognise - transition... you are talking about... we recognise we i transition... you are talking i about... we recognise we need transition... you are talking - about... we recognise we need a transition — about... we recognise we need a transition from _ about... we recognise we need a transition from oil _ about... we recognise we need a transition from oil and _ about... we recognise we need a transition from oil and gas - about... we recognise we need a transition from oil and gas and i transition from oil and gas and that's what the green prosperity plan is all about and that's why we put the levy on oil and gas companies, to then have great british energy, which will give us thejobs for the british energy, which will give us the jobs for the future, thousands of jobs across the jobs for the future, thousands ofjobs across the uk including in scotland, where great british energy's headquarters will be based. i'm going to turn to daisy cooper. it was pointed towards me, we should not be _ it was pointed towards me, we should not be grateful in scotland for headquarters, its our energy. 100.000 _ headquarters, its our energy. 100,000 jobs on the line as a result of your— 100,000 jobs on the line as a result of your policy. 100,000 jobs on the line as a result of your policy-— of your policy. there will be more 'obs in of your policy. there will be more jobs in scotland _ of your policy. there will be more jobs in scotland because - of your policy. there will be more jobs in scotland because of- of your policy. there will be more jobs in scotland because of our. jobs in scotland because of our plan, more than 100,000jobs jobs in scotland because of our plan, more than 100,000 jobs in scotland under labour. plan, more than 100,000 'obs in scotland under labour._ plan, more than 100,000 'obs in scotland under labour. daisy cooper. the conservatives _ scotland under labour. daisy cooper. the conservatives have _ scotland under labour. daisy cooper. the conservatives have moved - scotland under labour. daisy cooper. the conservatives have moved the i the conservatives have moved the goalposts — the conservatives have moved the goalposts on — the conservatives have moved the goalposts on climate _ the conservatives have moved the goalposts on climate targets and i goalposts on climate targets and that's _ goalposts on climate targets and that's brought _ goalposts on climate targets and that's brought uncertainty - goalposts on climate targets and that's brought uncertainty to - that's brought uncertainty to business _ that's brought uncertainty to business and _ that's brought uncertainty to business and people - that's brought uncertainty to business and people who - that's brought uncertainty to . business and people who invest that's brought uncertainty to - business and people who invest in our country— business and people who invest in our country and _ business and people who invest in our country and our— business and people who invest in our country and our climate - our country and our climate transition _ our country and our climate transition. we _ our country and our climate transition. we are - our country and our climate transition. we are facing i our country and our climate transition. we are facing a i our country and our climate - transition. we are facing a climate ecological— transition. we are facing a climate ecological emergency— transition. we are facing a climate ecological emergency but - transition. we are facing a climate ecological emergency but we - transition. we are facing a climate j ecological emergency but we don't have to _ ecological emergency but we don't have to make _ ecological emergency but we don't have to make a _ ecological emergency but we don't have to make a choice _ ecological emergency but we don't have to make a choice between . have to make a choice between economic— have to make a choice between economic growth— have to make a choice between economic growth and _ have to make a choice between economic growth and tackling i have to make a choice between i economic growth and tackling the climate _ economic growth and tackling the climate emergency, _ economic growth and tackling the climate emergency, we _ economic growth and tackling the climate emergency, we can- economic growth and tackling the climate emergency, we can do. economic growth and tackling the i climate emergency, we can do both hand in— climate emergency, we can do both hand in hand. — climate emergency, we can do both hand in hand, we _ climate emergency, we can do both hand in hand, we really— climate emergency, we can do both hand in hand, we really can, - climate emergency, we can do both hand in hand, we really can, so- climate emergency, we can do both| hand in hand, we really can, so take the example — hand in hand, we really can, so take the example of— hand in hand, we really can, so take the example of having _ hand in hand, we really can, so take the example of having a _ hand in hand, we really can, so take the example of having a home - the example of having a home insulation— the example of having a home insulation scheme, _ the example of having a home insulation scheme, an - the example of having a home . insulation scheme, an emergency the example of having a home - insulation scheme, an emergency home insulation— insulation scheme, an emergency home insulation scheme _ insulation scheme, an emergency home insulation scheme. it _ insulation scheme, an emergency home insulation scheme. it would _ insulation scheme, an emergency home insulation scheme. it would not - insulation scheme, an emergency home insulation scheme. it would not only. insulation scheme. it would not only reduce _ insulation scheme. it would not only reduce our— insulation scheme. it would not only reduce our energy— insulation scheme. it would not only reduce our energy usage _ insulation scheme. it would not only reduce our energy usage which - insulation scheme. it would not onlyl reduce our energy usage which would be good _ reduce our energy usage which would be good for— reduce our energy usage which would be good for the climate, _ reduce our energy usage which would be good for the climate, it— reduce our energy usage which would be good for the climate, it would - be good for the climate, it would reduce _ be good for the climate, it would reduce our— be good for the climate, it would reduce our bills, _ be good for the climate, it would reduce our bills, good _ be good for the climate, it would reduce our bills, good for- be good for the climate, it would reduce our bills, good for our. reduce our bills, good for our pockets — reduce our bills, good for our pockets and _ reduce our bills, good for our pockets and create _ reduce our bills, good for our pockets and create a - reduce our bills, good for our pockets and create a raft - reduce our bills, good for our pockets and create a raft of. reduce our bills, good for our. pockets and create a raft of new 'obs pockets and create a raft of new jobs as — pockets and create a raft of new jobs as well. _ pockets and create a raft of new jobs as well, people _ pockets and create a raft of new jobs as well, people who - pockets and create a raft of new jobs as well, people who go - pockets and create a raft of new . jobs as well, people who go around insulating _ jobs as well, people who go around insulating our— jobs as well, people who go around insulating our homes, _ jobs as well, people who go around insulating our homes, so— jobs as well, people who go around insulating our homes, so we - jobs as well, people who go around insulating our homes, so we can i jobs as well, people who go aroundi insulating our homes, so we can do both of— insulating our homes, so we can do both of them — insulating our homes, so we can do both of them hand—in—hand - insulating our homes, so we can do both of them hand—in—hand and - insulating our homes, so we can do i both of them hand—in—hand and that's what we _ both of them hand—in—hand and that's what we need — both of them hand—in—hand and that's what we need to— both of them hand—in—hand and that's what we need to do. _ both of them hand—in—hand and that's what we need to do. rhun _ both of them hand-in-hand and that's what we need to do.— what we need to do. rhun ap iorwerth- _ what we need to do. rhun ap lorwerth. nothing _ what we need to do. rhun ap lorwerth. nothing is - what we need to do. rhun ap lorwerth. nothing is more . what we need to do. rhun ap - lorwerth. nothing is more important than looking — iorwerth. nothing is more important than looking after— lorwerth. nothing is more important than looking after the _ lorwerth. nothing is more important than looking after the environment i than looking after the environment you will be living in in future. there is not a matter of making a choice in wales, as it happens, we can create that economic prosperity that we need to build up freight —— brighter future that we need to build up freight —— brighterfuture for our that we need to build up freight —— brighter future for our country hand—in—hand with looking after the environment. it's why plaid cymru calls for the devolution of the crown estates, as has happened to scotland, but they won't do it to wales, so we can invest in making the most of our natural resources, extracting power out of the wind and tide, it's why we need to see wales being paid the £4 billion it's a load of the investment in h has in england, wales is contributing towards that even though there's not a mile of it in wales and we need that in order to drive people onto public transport through investing in connectivity in wales and you know what, i'm not surprised hearing the conservatives refusing to make that commitment to wales but it's galling when you have a labour government in wales that labour won't either. government in wales that labour won't either-— government in wales that labour. won't either._ done won't either. penny mordaunt. done well, both should _ won't either. penny mordaunt. done well, both should help _ won't either. penny mordaunt. done well, both should help the _ won't either. penny mordaunt. done well, both should help the other. i well, both should help the other. what _ well, both should help the other. what is _ well, both should help the other. what is critical is if you want to reach _ what is critical is if you want to reach net — what is critical is if you want to reach net zero by 2050, you have to do it with _ reach net zero by 2050, you have to do it with people. you have to ensure — do it with people. you have to ensure that people can afford to get there _ ensure that people can afford to get there if_ ensure that people can afford to get there. if you don't do that, you will fail— there. if you don't do that, you will fail to— there. if you don't do that, you will fail to reach your targets. we are going to do this at a pace that people _ are going to do this at a pace that pe0pie can — are going to do this at a pace that people can afford. 2050 sounds a lon- people can afford. 2050 sounds a long way— people can afford. 2050 sounds a long way off and in this election you are — long way off and in this election you are looking at the next five years — you are looking at the next five years at — you are looking at the next five years. at the end of this parliament if they— years. at the end of this parliament if they get— years. at the end of this parliament if they get in you will not be able to buy _ if they get in you will not be able to buy a — if they get in you will not be able to buy a petrol car. if your boiler goes. _ to buy a petrol car. if your boiler goes. you — to buy a petrol car. if your boiler goes, you will have to spend tens of thousands— goes, you will have to spend tens of thousands of pounds on a new heat pumo _ thousands of pounds on a new heat pump. 0ther thousands of pounds on a new heat pump. other things that need to be done pump. 0ther things that need to be done to— pump. other things that need to be done to your home to convert it. my constituents — done to your home to convert it. my constituents cannot afford that. you heard _ constituents cannot afford that. you heard about... constituents cannot afford that. you heard about. . ._ heard about... because of your olicies. heard about... because of your policies. you _ heard about... because of your policies. you heard _ heard about... because of your policies. you heard about - heard about... because of your policies. you heard about gb . heard about... because of your- policies. you heard about gb energy, this is an energy _ policies. you heard about gb energy, this is an energy company _ policies. you heard about gb energy, this is an energy company that - policies. you heard about gb energy, this is an energy company that your. this is an energy company that your n1oney— this is an energy company that your money witt— this is an energy company that your money will be put into that doesn't produce _ money will be put into that doesn't produce any energy at all.— produce any energy at all. that's rubbish. produce any energy at all. that's rubbish- oil— produce any energy at all. that's rubbish. oil and _ produce any energy at all. that's rubbish. oil and gas, _ produce any energy at all. that's rubbish. oil and gas, this - produce any energy at all. that's rubbish. oil and gas, this is - produce any energy at all. that's rubbish. oil and gas, this is the l rubbish. oil and gas, this is the insanity of _ rubbish. oil and gas, this is the insanity of labour's _ rubbish. oil and gas, this is the insanity of labour's policy, - rubbish. oil and gas, this is the insanity of labour's policy, they are expecting a load of people to invest— are expecting a load of people to invest on— are expecting a load of people to invest on oil and gas at the same tinre _ invest on oil and gas at the same time saying they are not going to expand _ time saying they are not going to expand the sector so they are not going _ expand the sector so they are not going to — expand the sector so they are not going to get the money and onto the final thing. _ going to get the money and onto the finalthing, if going to get the money and onto the final thing, if you do this too fast all you _ final thing, if you do this too fast all you do— final thing, if you do this too fast all you do is destroy our supply chain — all you do is destroy our supply chain we _ all you do is destroy our supply chain. we should be building supply chains _ chain. we should be building supply chains of— chain. we should be building supply chains of this country to produce batteries— chains of this country to produce batteries and do all sorts of other things _ batteries and do all sorts of other things let— batteries and do all sorts of other thin . s. r . batteries and do all sorts of other thins. . . , ,., , things. let angela respond, penny mordaunt to _ things. let angela respond, penny mordaunt to what _ things. let angela respond, penny mordaunt to what you _ things. let angela respond, penny mordaunt to what you said, - things. let angela respond, penny mordaunt to what you said, let's . mordaunt to what you said, let's hear the response. it’s mordaunt to what you said, let's hear the response. it's astonishing, because the — hear the response. it's astonishing, because the tories _ hear the response. it's astonishing, because the tories have _ hear the response. it's astonishing, because the tories have been - hear the response. it's astonishing, because the tories have been in - because the tories have been in power now... because the tories have been in power now- - -— because the tories have been in power now... how much energy... haven't had — power now... how much energy... haven't had an _ power now. .. how much energy... haven't had an industrial- power now... how much energy... haven't had an industrial strategyl haven't had an industrial strategy or a manufacturing sector in the uk... both talk at once. . wejust listen to you, penny. she uk. . . both talk at once. . we 'ust listen to you, pennyi listen to you, penny. she is mid response, let's _ listen to you, penny. she is mid response, let's hear _ listen to you, penny. she is mid response, let's hear it. - listen to you, penny. she is mid response, let's hear it. thank i listen to you, penny. she is mid i response, let's hear it. thank you, great british _ response, let's hear it. thank you, great british energy _ response, let's hear it. thank you, great british energy will _ response, let's hear it. thank you, great british energy will be - response, let's hear it. thank you, great british energy will be owned| great british energy will be owned company by the uk taxpayers that will bring energy, clean energy, to the country, which will bring down bills and give people good skilled jobs. we've heard from the tories for m years they were going to do something about skills and manufacturing in this country. i asked the people to look at their record and constantly spout these lies that we are going to stop people's cards, that we are going to do this, do that, when really the reason they say that is there ia years abstract failure. you have failed the british people... green olicies in failed the british people... green policies in the _ failed the british people... green policies in the manifesto... - failed the british people... green. policies in the manifesto... people can see _ policies in the manifesto... people can see that. policies in the manifesto... people can see that-— can see that. you can't afford to .a l can see that. you can't afford to pay. that's _ can see that. you can't afford to pay, that's where _ can see that. you can't afford to pay, that's where the _ can see that. you can't afford to pay, that's where the £2000 . can see that. you can't afford to - pay, that's where the £2000 comes front _ pay, that's where the £2000 comes front both — pay, that's where the £2000 comes from. both talk _ pay, that's where the £2000 comes from. both talk at _ pay, that's where the £2000 comes from. both talk at 0nce.. - pay, that's where the £2000 comes from. both talk at 0nce.. the? l pay, that's where the £2000 comes from. both talk at 0nce.. from. both talk at once.. they are auoin to from. both talk at once.. they are going to hit — from. both talk at once.. they are going to hit youm — from. both talk at once.. they are going to hit you... i'm _ from. both talk at once.. they are going to hit you... i'm going - from. both talk at once.. they are going to hit you... i'm going to - going to hit you... i'm going to turn to the _ going to hit you... i'm going to turn to the next _ going to hit you... i'm going to turn to the next question - going to hit you... i'm going to turn to the next question and l going to hit you... i'm going to i turn to the next question and the next question... turn to the next question and the next question. . ._ next question... disagree? they auree! next question... disagree? they agree! the _ next question... disagree? they agree! the next _ next question... disagree? they agree! the next question, - next question... disagree? they agree! the next question, from | next question... disagree? they - agree! the next question, from nick o'donnell. agree! the next question, from nick o'donnell- as _ agree! the next question, from nick o'donnell. as a _ agree! the next question, from nick o'donnell. as a father— agree! the next question, from nick o'donnell. as a father with - agree! the next question, from nick o'donnell. as a father with a - agree! the next question, from nick o'donnell. as a father with a young | o'donnell. as a father with a young son about to _ o'donnell. as a father with a young son about to start _ o'donnell. as a father with a young son about to start secondary - o'donnell. as a father with a young i son about to start secondary school i'm concerned about him going out on his own. i'm particularly worried about knife crime. how will the party is make sure he is safe? thank ou ve party is make sure he is safe? thank you very much. _ party is make sure he is safe? thank you very much, how— party is make sure he is safe? thank you very much, how will— party is make sure he is safe? thank you very much, how will the - party is make sure he is safe? thank you very much, how will the partiesl you very much, how will the parties protect future generations like nikki o'donnell's young son, who is about to start secondary school? carla denyer. about to start secondary school? carla denyer-_ about to start secondary school? carla denyer-— about to start secondary school? carla denyer. nick, we'll have the riaht carla denyer. nick, we'll have the ri . ht to carla denyer. nick, we'll have the right to feel _ carla denyer. nick, we'll have the right to feel safe _ carla denyer. nick, we'll have the right to feel safe in _ carla denyer. nick, we'll have the right to feel safe in our _ carla denyer. nick, we'll have the right to feel safe in our homes - carla denyer. nick, we'll have the| right to feel safe in our homes and on our— right to feel safe in our homes and on our streets. my hope city of bristol — on our streets. my hope city of bristol has _ on our streets. my hope city of bristol has seen epidemic of knife crinre, _ bristol has seen epidemic of knife crinre, one — bristol has seen epidemic of knife crime, one of my colleague's friend's— crime, one of my colleague's friend's was one of those victims, so this— friend's was one of those victims, so this strikes very close to home for me _ so this strikes very close to home for me. there are obvious things that could — for me. there are obvious things that could be done in terms of making — that could be done in terms of making sure that there is more officers — making sure that there is more officers out and about, but the other— officers out and about, but the other parties will also i expect tell you — other parties will also i expect tell you that they will be tough on crime, _ tell you that they will be tough on crime, tough...— crime, tough... how many police officers would _ crime, tough... how many police officers would you _ crime, tough... how many police officers would you want, - crime, tough... how many police officers would you want, as - crime, tough... how many police. officers would you want, as you've brought policing into it? £31!" brought policing into it? our manifesto — brought policing into it? our manifesto will _ brought policing into it? our manifesto will be _ brought policing into it? our manifesto will be out soon but the broad _ manifesto will be out soon but the broad points i can cover now, tough on crime _ broad points i can cover now, tough on crime is — broad points i can cover now, tough on crime is a — broad points i can cover now, tough on crime is a rhetoric we hear a lot from _ on crime is a rhetoric we hear a lot from other— on crime is a rhetoric we hear a lot from other parties but the reality is that— from other parties but the reality is that not— from other parties but the reality is that not all crime can be tackled by being _ is that not all crime can be tackled by being tough and that's something that the _ by being tough and that's something that the green councillors in bristol, _ that the green councillors in bristol, the largest council in the country— bristol, the largest council in the country that green led, are prioritising, because the causes of knife _ prioritising, because the causes of knife crime — prioritising, because the causes of knife crime are complex, but they include _ knife crime are complex, but they include the — knife crime are complex, but they include the fact that a generation of young — include the fact that a generation of young people are growing up without — of young people are growing up without access to the services they need, _ without access to the services they need, youth centres are being closed, — need, youth centres are being closed, services that they need to support— closed, services that they need to support them... the closed, services that they need to sopport them- - -— support them... the question on knife crime _ support them... the question on knife crime which _ support them... the question on knife crime which is _ support them... the question on knife crime which is up _ support them... the question on knife crime which is up and - support them... the question on i knife crime which is up and england and wales by 8% since 2019, nigel farage? stop and search. we know the areas where knives are most prevalent. stop and search. applause we don't do it, oh gosh, if this area has got high proportion of people from the black and ethnic minority communities, they might call us racist. we've got to stop doing this. we have to forget the colour of people's skins, treat everybody equally, but we must do stop and search, do it in a very tough way, have proper sentences. you can go shoplifting now, any of you. you can go out and nick up to £200 worth without being prosecuted. we are seeing a societal decline of law and order in this country, and frankly, government and the police forces have been too scared to do what needs to be done. it is yet another area of britain that is broken and needs radical surgery. daisy cooper? i broken and needs radical surgery. daisy cooper?— broken and needs radical surgery. daisy cooper? broken and needs radical surgery. dais cooer? ~' ., , , daisy cooper? i know mary parents -- many parents — daisy cooper? i know mary parents -- many parents who _ daisy cooper? i know mary parents -- many parents who are _ daisy cooper? i know mary parents -- many parents who are scared - daisy cooper? i know mary parents -- many parents who are scared about i many parents who are scared about the safety _ many parents who are scared about the safety of the children. it is not only— the safety of the children. it is not only a _ the safety of the children. it is not only a big issue in london but pa rticuta rty — not only a big issue in london but particularly in the home counties, on county— particularly in the home counties, on county lines, a big issue with knives— on county lines, a big issue with knives as — on county lines, a big issue with knives as well. i think we need to change _ knives as well. i think we need to change the — knives as well. i think we need to change the model of policing and get back to _ change the model of policing and get back to good old fashion community policing, _ back to good old fashion community policing, where the police know their— policing, where the police know their communities, the communities know— their communities, the communities know their— their communities, the communities know their police, where community groups. _ know their police, where community groups, faith groups, localfamilies all work— groups, faith groups, localfamilies all work together and get their intelligence from the ground up. that has— intelligence from the ground up. that has been all but wiped out in parts _ that has been all but wiped out in parts of— that has been all but wiped out in parts of our— that has been all but wiped out in parts of our country. there have been _ parts of our country. there have been cuts — parts of our country. there have been cuts of a500 pc usos as well. about _ been cuts of a500 pc usos as well. about stop— been cuts of a500 pc usos as well. about stop and search in particular, it can _ about stop and search in particular, it can be _ about stop and search in particular, it can be a — about stop and search in particular, it can be a useful tool in some instances, _ it can be a useful tool in some instances, but stop and search without — instances, but stop and search without suspicion, which has been used _ without suspicion, which has been used to— without suspicion, which has been used to target particular groups of people. _ used to target particular groups of people. is— used to target particular groups of people, is not valid and should not be used _ people, is not valid and should not be used. where there was a suspicion of somebody, it can be used, but it has to— of somebody, it can be used, but it has to be _ of somebody, it can be used, but it has to be in— of somebody, it can be used, but it has to be in a — of somebody, it can be used, but it has to be in a targeted way, based on evidence, not profiling. we has to be in a targeted way, based on evidence, not profiling.- on evidence, not profiling. we do know the areas _ on evidence, not profiling. we do know the areas in _ on evidence, not profiling. we do know the areas in which - on evidence, not profiling. we do know the areas in which knife - on evidence, not profiling. we do i know the areas in which knife crime is the most prevalent, and there is no question that we are scared... and those of the areas with most inequality. — and those of the areas with most inequality, which is why tackling inequality, which is why tackling inequality as part of the answer. that _ inequality as part of the answer. that is— inequality as part of the answer. that is maybe what you have to do to solve the problem ultimately... do solve the problem ultimately... do ou solve the problem ultimately... do you not want to solve the problem ultimately? we you not want to solve the problem ultimately?— you not want to solve the problem ultimatel ? ~ . ., ., ., ultimately? we are scared of our own shadow here- — ultimately? we are scared of our own shadow here. we _ ultimately? we are scared of our own shadow here. we won't _ ultimately? we are scared of our own shadow here. we won't deal- ultimately? we are scared of our own shadow here. we won't deal with - ultimately? we are scared of our own shadow here. we won't deal with the | shadow here. we won't deal with the question unless we stop being scared of ourselves, go out and do what needs to be done.— of ourselves, go out and do what needs to be done. penny mordaunt, how would you _ needs to be done. penny mordaunt, how would you protect _ needs to be done. penny mordaunt, how would you protect future - how would you protect future generations from knife crime? {lister generations from knife crime? over the last 14 years. — generations from knife crime? over the last 14 years, if— generations from knife crime? over the last 14 years, if you _ generations from knife crime? over the last 14 years, if you leave out computer — the last 14 years, if you leave out computer crime _ the last 14 years, if you leave out computer crime and _ the last 14 years, if you leave out computer crime and online - the last 14 years, if you leave out| computer crime and online fraud, the last 14 years, if you leave out - computer crime and online fraud, we have more _ computer crime and online fraud, we have more than— computer crime and online fraud, we have more than halved _ computer crime and online fraud, we have more than halved crime. - computer crime and online fraud, we have more than halved crime. 55%. i have more than halved crime. 55%. the question— have more than halved crime. 55%. the question is— have more than halved crime. 55%. the question is about _ have more than halved crime. 55%. the question is about knife - have more than halved crime. 55%. the question is about knife crime. i the question is about knife crime. violent crime is down by aa%. but we have hotspots. — violent crime is down by aa%. but we have hotspots, and _ violent crime is down by aa%. but we have hotspots, and knife _ violent crime is down by aa%. but we have hotspots, and knife crime - violent crime is down by aa%. but we have hotspots, and knife crime in- have hotspots, and knife crime in particular. — have hotspots, and knife crime in particular, london— have hotspots, and knife crime in particular, london is— have hotspots, and knife crime in particular, london is top - have hotspots, and knife crime in particular, london is top of- have hotspots, and knife crime in particular, london is top of the l particular, london is top of the list _ particular, london is top of the list we — particular, london is top of the list we have _ particular, london is top of the list. we have put _ particular, london is top of the list. we have put more - particular, london is top of the list. we have put more police i particular, london is top of the i list. we have put more police on particular, london is top of the - list. we have put more police on the streets. _ list. we have put more police on the streets. we — list. we have put more police on the streets, we have _ list. we have put more police on the streets, we have met _ list. we have put more police on the streets, we have met our— list. we have put more police on the streets, we have met our manifesto| streets, we have met our manifesto commitment — streets, we have met our manifesto commitment of _ streets, we have met our manifesto commitment of 20,000 _ streets, we have met our manifesto commitment of 20,000 more - streets, we have met our manifesto| commitment of 20,000 more police officers _ commitment of 20,000 more police officers we — commitment of 20,000 more police officers. we have _ commitment of 20,000 more police officers. we have record _ commitment of 20,000 more police officers. we have record numbers, l officers. we have record numbers, and where — officers. we have record numbers, and where you _ officers. we have record numbers, and where you have _ officers. we have record numbers, and where you have conservative i and where you have conservative police _ and where you have conservative police and — and where you have conservative police and crime _ and where you have conservative | police and crime commissioners, and where you have conservative - police and crime commissioners, like my area _ police and crime commissioners, like my area in _ police and crime commissioners, like my area in hampshire, _ police and crime commissioners, like my area in hampshire, you _ police and crime commissioners, like my area in hampshire, you have - police and crime commissioners, like my area in hampshire, you have local bobbies— my area in hampshire, you have local bobbies on— my area in hampshire, you have local bobbies on the — my area in hampshire, you have local bobbies on the beat. _ my area in hampshire, you have local bobbies on the beat. infest— my area in hampshire, you have local bobbies on the beat.— bobbies on the beat. west midlands has the highest _ bobbies on the beat. west midlands has the highest rate _ bobbies on the beat. west midlands has the highest rate of— bobbies on the beat. west midlands has the highest rate of knife - bobbies on the beat. west midlands has the highest rate of knife crime. | has the highest rate of knife crime. that did until recently have a conservative mayor. but that did until recently have a conservative mayor.- that did until recently have a conservative mayor. but he wasn't responsible _ conservative mayor. but he wasn't responsible for _ conservative mayor. but he wasn't responsible for police. _ conservative mayor. but he wasn't responsible for police. there - conservative mayor. but he wasn't responsible for police. there was i conservative mayor. but he wasn't| responsible for police. there was a police _ responsible for police. there was a police and — responsible for police. there was a police and crime _ responsible for police. there was a police and crime commissioner- responsible for police. there was al police and crime commissioner and responsible for police. there was a i police and crime commissioner and it was labour _ police and crime commissioner and it was labour if— police and crime commissioner and it was labour if you _ police and crime commissioner and it was labour. if you live _ police and crime commissioner and it was labour. if you live in _ police and crime commissioner and it was labour. if you live in a _ police and crime commissioner and it was labour. if you live in a labour- was labour. if you live in a labour area, _ was labour. if you live in a labour area, you — was labour. if you live in a labour area, you are— was labour. if you live in a labour area, you are 40% _ was labour. if you live in a labour area, you are 40% more - was labour. if you live in a labour area, you are 40% more likely. was labour. if you live in a labour area, you are 40% more likely toi was labour. if you live in a labour. area, you are 40% more likely to be area, you are 40% more likely to be a victim _ area, you are 40% more likely to be a victim of— area, you are 40% more likely to be a victim of crime. _ area, you are 40% more likely to be a victim of crime. that— area, you are 40% more likely to be a victim of crime. that is— area, you are 40% more likely to be a victim of crime. that is a - a victim of crime. that is a shocking _ a victim of crime. that is a shocking statistic. - a victim of crime. that is a shocking statistic. we - a victim of crime. that is al shocking statistic. we need a victim of crime. that is a - shocking statistic. we need more police _ shocking statistic. we need more police and — shocking statistic. we need more police and we _ shocking statistic. we need more police and we need _ shocking statistic. we need more police and we need to _ shocking statistic. we need more police and we need to police - shocking statistic. we need more police and we need to police whoi shocking statistic. we need more - police and we need to police who are embedded _ police and we need to police who are embedded in— police and we need to police who are embedded in communities, - police and we need to police who are embedded in communities, who- embedded in communities, who can follow— embedded in communities, who can follow up _ embedded in communities, who can follow up with — embedded in communities, who can follow up with people. _ embedded in communities, who can follow up with people. if _ embedded in communities, who can follow up with people. if kids - embedded in communities, who can follow up with people. if kids are . follow up with people. if kids are doing _ follow up with people. if kids are doing stuff, _ follow up with people. if kids are doing stuff, they— follow up with people. if kids are doing stuff, they follow - follow up with people. if kids are doing stuff, they follow up - follow up with people. if kids are doing stuff, they follow up with i follow up with people. if kids are i doing stuff, they follow up with the school _ doing stuff, they follow up with the school and — doing stuff, they follow up with the school and the _ doing stuff, they follow up with the school and the parents. _ doing stuff, they follow up with the school and the parents. that - doing stuff, they follow up with the school and the parents. that is - doing stuff, they follow up with the i school and the parents. that is what conservative — school and the parents. that is what conservative police _ school and the parents. that is what conservative police and _ school and the parents. that is what conservative police and crime - conservative police and crime commissioners— conservative police and crime commissioners are _ conservative police and crime commissioners are doing. - conservative police and crime commissioners are doing. in. commissioners are doing. in hampshire, _ commissioners are doing. in hampshire, we— commissioners are doing. in hampshire, we have - commissioners are doing. in hampshire, we have 600 i commissioners are doing. in . hampshire, we have 600 extra officers — hampshire, we have 600 extra officers. every— hampshire, we have 600 extra officers. every single _ hampshire, we have 600 extra officers. every single one - hampshire, we have 600 extra officers. every single one of. hampshire, we have 600 extra| officers. every single one of my wards— officers. every single one of my wards has— officers. every single one of my wards has a _ officers. every single one of my wards has a named _ officers. every single one of my wards has a named body. - officers. every single one of my. wards has a named body. people officers. every single one of my- wards has a named body. people build up wards has a named body. people build up intelligence — wards has a named body. people build up intelligence -- _ wards has a named body. people build op intelligence-— up intelligence. -- a named police officer. up intelligence. -- a named police officer- angela _ up intelligence. -- a named police officer. angela rayner? _ up intelligence. -- a named police officer. angela rayner? nick, - up intelligence. -- a named police i officer. angela rayner? nick, thanks for the question, _ officer. angela rayner? nick, thanks for the question, and _ officer. angela rayner? nick, thanks for the question, and i _ officer. angela rayner? nick, thanks for the question, and i think - officer. angela rayner? nick, thanks for the question, and i think our - for the question, and i think our young _ for the question, and i think our young people don't feel safe either at the _ young people don't feel safe either at the moment, never mind us as parents — at the moment, never mind us as parents we _ at the moment, never mind us as parents. i've got a 15 and 16—year—old, sons, at home. it is sad when — 16—year—old, sons, at home. it is sad when i — 16—year—old, sons, at home. it is sad when i go round my schools and talk to _ sad when i go round my schools and talk to young people. they are frightened of what they think is crime _ frightened of what they think is crime on — frightened of what they think is crime on their streets. young people who are _ crime on their streets. young people who are worried about knife crime generally— who are worried about knife crime generally tend to carry a knife to protect _ generally tend to carry a knife to protect themselves but they are more likely to _ protect themselves but they are more likely to actually be involved in knife _ likely to actually be involved in knife crime because of that. we have to educate _ knife crime because of that. we have to educate our young people. that means— to educate our young people. that means we've got to have those neighbourhood police. we said we would _ neighbourhood police. we said we would put — neighbourhood police. we said we would put 13,000 more neighbourhood police _ would put 13,000 more neighbourhood police on _ would put 13,000 more neighbourhood police on the street. penny talked about— police on the street. penny talked about 20,000 police officers. they cut 22,000. that is -2000 about 20,000 police officers. they cut 22,000. that is —2000 in my mathematics. so they haven't protected people.— mathematics. so they haven't protected people. that's not true, we have a record _ protected people. that's not true, we have a record number. - protected people. that's not true, we have a record number. we - protected people. that's not true, | we have a record number. we have seen the decimation _ we have a record number. we have seen the decimation of _ we have a record number. we have i seen the decimation of neighbourhood police _ seen the decimation of neighbourhood police. actually, when police are in the neighbourhoods, they get to know the neighbourhoods, they get to know the young _ the neighbourhoods, they get to know the young people, they can work with them and _ the young people, they can work with them and really get our young people feeling _ them and really get our young people feeling safe on the streets again, because — feeling safe on the streets again, because i— feeling safe on the streets again, because i think that is one of the real scandal is at the moment, is our young — real scandal is at the moment, is our young people feel that they will be protected if they carry a knife. it is completely untrue and we have to educate — it is completely untrue and we have to educate them and make them feel safe again _ to educate them and make them feel safe aaain. . , ., to educate them and make them feel safe again-— pennyi safe again. rhun ap lorwerth? penny mordaunt was _ safe again. rhun ap lorwerth? penny mordaunt was referring _ safe again. rhun ap lorwerth? penny mordaunt was referring to _ safe again. rhun ap lorwerth? penny mordaunt was referring to some - safe again. rhun ap lorwerth? pennyl mordaunt was referring to some areas having higher levels of crime than others. let's be straight about it — it is areas which are suffering the most poverty that will suffer the highest levels of crime. it is people who have less hope who are most likely to end up leading criminal lives. i absolutely agree that we need to look back through the education system. we have to make it very clear to our young people that there can be zero tolerance on knives. i was attacked as a teenager. luckily, no knives. my as a teenager. luckily, no knives. my son was attacked a couple of years ago. again, luckily, no knives involved. but it also makes me very worried about the future for young people. for us in wales, what is absolutely key is that we bring the decision—making closer to communities such as yours, so that we can see the devolving ofjustice and policing so that we can devise systems that work for wales. angela's labour colleagues in wales agree with me. again, labour at a angela's labour colleagues in wales agree with me. again, labourata uk level, hoping to become the next government, say no chance. briefly, colour, government, say no chance. briefly, colour. before _ government, say no chance. briefly, colour, before i _ government, say no chance. briefly, colour, before i turn _ government, say no chance. briefly, colour, before i turn to _ government, say no chance. briefly, colour, before i turn to stephen - colour, before i turn to stephen flynn. i colour, before i turn to stephen fl nn. . . . colour, before i turn to stephen fl nn. . , , ., flynn. i have signed the pledge for a councillor— flynn. i have signed the pledge for a councillor in _ flynn. i have signed the pledge for a councillor in every _ flynn. i have signed the pledge for a councillor in every school- flynn. i have signed the pledge for a councillor in every school to - flynn. i have signed the pledge for a councillor in every school to help| a councillor in every school to help with young — a councillor in every school to help with young people's mental health and with— with young people's mental health and with youth violence. will the others _ and with youth violence. will the others on — and with youth violence. will the others on the panel todayjoin me? we already— others on the panel todayjoin me? we already committed that we would have mental health services in schools. ,, , have mental health services in schools. ., , , have mental health services in schools. ,, , , ., schools. stephen flynn, on the broader question _ schools. stephen flynn, on the broader question of _ schools. stephen flynn, on the broader question of policing, i schools. stephen flynn, on the - broader question of policing, police officer numbers in scotland are at the lowest level since 2008. now police in scotland are not investigating every low level crime. and thankfully, of course, nick, in relation to your direct question, i remember the figures, if i remember the figures, serious knife crime in scotland is comparatively low compared with other areas. that is not to be complacent. as a dad, i share your concerns and worry about what the future holds for my kids. ultimately, the solution lies in what rhun has said. we need to make sure we are investing in the areas that need support the most. poverty is a major driver behind this, and westminster has failed generations of young people by not providing them with hope for a better future, so they turn to violence when they perhaps shouldn't. i think that is something we should all reflect upon going into this general election. £18 billion of public sector cuts are coming down the line, and a look future labour government doesn't have any answers. this future labour government doesn't have any answers.— future labour government doesn't have any answers. this question is about how — have any answers. this question is about how the _ have any answers. this question is about how the parties _ have any answers. this question is about how the parties will - have any answers. this question is about how the parties will protectl about how the parties will protect future generations like nick o'donnell's son. how can he feel confident that if someone in a similar position in scotland see the police not investigating every crime? b5 police not investigating every crime? �* . police not investigating every crime? r . police not investigating every crime? a . . . , police not investigating every crime? a . . . crime? as i have already outlined, as i understand _ crime? as i have already outlined, as i understand it _ crime? as i have already outlined, as i understand it to _ crime? as i have already outlined, as i understand it to be _ crime? as i have already outlined, as i understand it to be the - crime? as i have already outlined, as i understand it to be the case, i as i understand it to be the case, serious knife crime in scotland is comparatively low, in comparison to elsewhere. our police officer numbers are still higher than when we came into government. again, if i understand correctly. there is a wider picture here, and that means police officers working with local communities, working with schools, with our young people, to offer them hope and optimism for the future. i'm afraid that westminster doesn't offer that hope and optimism right now. . . offer that hope and optimism right now— look. - offer that hope and optimism right now— took. you - offer that hope and optimism right i now._ look, you know, now. nigel farage? look, you know, arain, i now. nigel farage? look, you know, again. ljust — now. nigel farage? look, you know, again, ijust think— now. nigel farage? look, you know, again, i just think our— now. nigel farage? look, you know, again, i just think our whole - again, ijust think our whole approach _ again, ijust think our whole approach to crime is wrong. low level— approach to crime is wrong. low level crime _ approach to crime is wrong. low level crime is rapidly growing. street— level crime is rapidly growing. street level crime is rapidly growing. the old theories about new york and _ growing. the old theories about new york and how it was cleaned up, it was. _ york and how it was cleaned up, it was. if— york and how it was cleaned up, it was. if you — york and how it was cleaned up, it was, if you deal with the stuff at the bottom, people carrying knives, shoplifting, graffiti, broken windows, you mightjust deal with a more _ windows, you mightjust deal with a more serious stuff. we should also add into— more serious stuff. we should also add into this the blight of drugs and drug — add into this the blight of drugs and drug gangs in our cities. that whole _ and drug gangs in our cities. that whole culture has been absolutely disastrous, and nobody but nobody has yet _ disastrous, and nobody but nobody has yet found the answer to that. ok, has yet found the answer to that. 0k. well. — has yet found the answer to that. 0k, well, that was our final 0k, well, that was ourfinal question, so i'm going to thank you all for your responses to all of those here in the audience who have shared their questions with us. but it is time now to go to the parties�* final thoughts. it is time now to go to the parties�* finalthoughts. for it is time now to go to the parties�* final thoughts. for that, they have been given 30 seconds for a final thought from each of them, and the order of those final thoughts, those final statements, was chosen earlier by lot. let's go to the first of those, from angela rayner. after 14 ears of those, from angela rayner. after 14 years of chaos. _ those, from angela rayner. after 14 years of chaos, it's _ those, from angela rayner. after 14 years of chaos, it's time _ those, from angela rayner. after 14 years of chaos, it's time for - years of chaos, it's time for change _ years of chaos, it's time for change. here starmer has changed the labour— change. here starmer has changed the labour party. 0ur fully costed plan for britain — labour party. 0ur fully costed plan for britain will secure our economy, bring _ for britain will secure our economy, bring down — for britain will secure our economy, bring down nhs waiting times, with 40.000 _ bring down nhs waiting times, with 40,000 new points every week, and will secure _ 40,000 new points every week, and will secure our borders, not with gimmicks — will secure our borders, not with gimmicks but with a credible plan to smash— gimmicks but with a credible plan to smash the gangs. we will create great _ smash the gangs. we will create great british energy, bringing down bills and _ great british energy, bringing down bills and creating thousands of well—paid jobs. we will boost mobile homes _ well—paid jobs. we will boost mobile homes -- _ well—paid jobs. we will boost mobile homes —— neighbourhood police to tackle _ homes —— neighbourhood police to tackle anti—social behaviour, and we will hire _ tackle anti—social behaviour, and we will hire 6500 new teachers. if you want _ will hire 6500 new teachers. if you want change, vote labour. applause stephen flynn? applause ste - hen fl nn? applause stehen fl nn? ., , . stephen flynn? the tories are finished, stephen flynn? the tories are finished. so — stephen flynn? the tories are finished, so the _ stephen flynn? the tories are finished, so the choice - stephen flynn? the tories are finished, so the choice is - stephen flynn? the tories are i finished, so the choice is simple. who the voters best trust to put scotland's interest first in westminster? in the snp, we know what it is that we believe in — investment in our nhs, action on the cost—of—living crisis, rejoining the european single market, and creating economic growth by delivering on net zero. unlike the labour party, we will never, ever get comfortable with the westminster status quo, and we will always fight for scotland plus might like to choose its own future. on the ath ofjuly, vote to put scotland's interests first, vote snp. ., ., put scotland's interests first, vote snp. . ., , , _ snp. carla denyer. we put scotland's interests first, vote snp._ we deserve i put scotland's interests first, vote i snp._ we deserve better snp. carla denyer. we deserve better than a labour— snp. carla denyer. we deserve better than a labour party _ snp. carla denyer. we deserve better than a labour party that _ snp. carla denyer. we deserve better than a labour party that is _ snp. carla denyer. we deserve better than a labour party that is offering i than a labour party that is offering more _ than a labour party that is offering more of— than a labour party that is offering more of the same. angela says that keir starmer has changed labour party. _ keir starmer has changed labour party. and — keir starmer has changed labour party, and she is right. he has changed — party, and she is right. he has changed them into the conservatives. lfllighter— laughter frankly, our children deserve better — frankly, our children deserve better. the green party is on the cusp— better. the green party is on the cusp of— better. the green party is on the cusp of breaking through in seats up and down _ cusp of breaking through in seats up and down the country. green mps will never— and down the country. green mps will never stop— and down the country. green mps will never stop defending our future, protecting our nhs privatisation, and pushing the next labour government to do better. we deserve real hope _ government to do better. we deserve real hope and real change. xlat'ote real hope and real change. vote green. real hope and real change. vote green- rhun _ real hope and real change. vote green. rhun ap _ real hope and real change. vote green. rhun ap lorwerth? - real hope and real change. vote green. rhun ap lorwerth? thisi green. rhun ap lorwerth? this evenin: , green. rhun ap lorwerth? this evening. we _ green. rhun ap lorwerth? this evening, i've been _ green. rhun ap lorwerth? try 3 evening, i've been able to stand up for wales, yes, but also for a different kind of politics that hopefully has been able to feel relevant wherever you are. my vision is a positive one. this isn't as good as it gets. the conservatives are gone. they are finished, and it can't come quickly enough. but there is a real chance here to send labour a message, too. stop taking wales for granted. it is true that communities throughout the uk feel as if they are being ignored. well, i won't let wales be, so vote plaid cymru on the ath ofjuly. applause penny mordaunt? applause penn mordaunt? ~ applause penn mordaunt? . ., penny mordaunt? we have come through tou~h times, penny mordaunt? we have come through tough times. and — penny mordaunt? we have come through tough times, and now _ penny mordaunt? we have come through tough times, and now there _ penny mordaunt? we have come through tough times, and now there is _ penny mordaunt? we have come through tough times, and now there is a - tough times, and now there is a choice _ tough times, and now there is a choice to— tough times, and now there is a choice to be _ tough times, and now there is a choice to be made. _ tough times, and now there is a choice to be made. you - tough times, and now there is a choice to be made. you can- tough times, and now there is a i choice to be made. you can choose angela rayner— choice to be made. you can choose angela rayner and _ choice to be made. you can choose angela rayner and keir— choice to be made. you can choose angela rayner and keir starmer. choice to be made. you can choosel angela rayner and keir starmer and -et angela rayner and keir starmer and get higher— angela rayner and keir starmer and get higher taxes. _ angela rayner and keir starmer and get highertaxes, higher— angela rayner and keir starmer and get higher taxes, higher bills- angela rayner and keir starmer and get higher taxes, higher bills and i get higher taxes, higher bills and have your— get higher taxes, higher bills and have your pension _ get higher taxes, higher bills and have your pension raided. - get higher taxes, higher bills and have your pension raided. or- get higher taxes, higher bills and have your pension raided. or youj get higher taxes, higher bills and i have your pension raided. or you can stick with— have your pension raided. or you can stick with us — have your pension raided. or you can stick with us and _ have your pension raided. or you can stick with us and the _ have your pension raided. or you can stick with us and the plan _ have your pension raided. or you can stick with us and the plan that - have your pension raided. or you can stick with us and the plan that is i stick with us and the plan that is working — stick with us and the plan that is working we _ stick with us and the plan that is working. we will— stick with us and the plan that is working. we will cut _ stick with us and the plan that is working. we will cut your - stick with us and the plan that is working. we will cut your taxes, j stick with us and the plan that is i working. we will cut your taxes, we will protect — working. we will cut your taxes, we will protect your _ working. we will cut your taxes, we will protect your pension, _ working. we will cut your taxes, we will protect your pension, and i working. we will cut your taxes, we will protect your pension, and we i will protect your pension, and we will protect your pension, and we will defend — will protect your pension, and we will defend this— will protect your pension, and we will defend this nation. _ will protect your pension, and we will defend this nation. for- will protect your pension, and we will defend this nation. for a i will protect your pension, and we. will defend this nation. for a more secure _ will defend this nation. for a more secure future. _ will defend this nation. for a more secure future, vote _ will defend this nation. for a more secure future, vote conservative. i secure future, vote conservative. daisy _ secure future, vote conservative. daisy cooper? _ secure future, vote conservative. daisy cooper?— secure future, vote conservative. daisy cooper? our country is crying out for change. _ daisy cooper? our country is crying out for change, and _ daisy cooper? our country is crying out for change, and it _ daisy cooper? our country is crying out for change, and it is _ daisy cooper? our country is crying out for change, and it is not i daisy cooper? our country is crying out for change, and it is not hard i out for change, and it is not hard to see why. under this conservative government, everything feels broken. nothing works. under ed davey�*s leadership, the lib dems will fix our nhs and social care, tackle the cost—of—living crisis and put an end to the scandal of filthy raw sewage being dumped in our rivers and streams. every vote for the liberal democrats is a vote for a fair deal, and a vote to help deliver the change that we all so desperately want and need.— change that we all so desperately i want and need._ unlike want and need. nigel farage? unlike the other six. — want and need. nigel farage? unlike the other six, i _ want and need. nigel farage? unlike the other six, i don't _ want and need. nigel farage? unlike the other six, i don't need _ want and need. nigel farage? unlike the other six, i don't need an - the other six, i don't need an autocue. _ the other six, i don't need an autocue, because i believe in what i believe _ autocue, because i believe in what i believe in — autocue, because i believe in what i believe in. our politics isn't working _ believe in. our politics isn't working. you've heard these pathetic arguments— working. you've heard these pathetic arguments tonight between the two bil arguments tonight between the two big parties. really, there is much difference. — big parties. really, there is much difference, but electorally, labour will win _ difference, but electorally, labour will win. the debate is who forms the opposition in the next parliament. who fights for the rights — parliament. who fights for the rights of— parliament. who fights for the rights of ordinary british people? who fights to control our borders? for men— who fights to control our borders? for men and women running small businesses? reform uk is about to become _ businesses? reform uk is about to become a _ businesses? reform uk is about to become a political phenomenon, an historic— become a political phenomenon, an historic one~ — become a political phenomenon, an historic one. sol become a political phenomenon, an historic one. so i urge you, join the revolt _ historic one. so i urge you, 'oin the revoltfi historic one. so i urge you, 'oin the revertfi historic one. so i urge you, 'oin the revolt. . ,, , ., , . the revolt. thank you very much. thank you. _ the revolt. thank you very much. thank you, all. _ the revolt. thank you very much. thank you, all. and _ the revolt. thank you very much. thank you, all. and with - the revolt. thank you very much. thank you, all. and with that, i the revolt. thank you very much. i thank you, all. and with that, that is it from the bbc election debate. from all of us here in the radio theatre, ouraudience, from all of us here in the radio theatre, our audience, and thank you to all the politicians and took part. thank you for being with us. good night. applause penny mordaunt good evening, nine o'clock in central london. there we have it, 90 minutes of debate. thank you for the seven parties. the moment in the night whether journalists draw their conclusions, distill what they've heard through the debate and come to a conclusion. the headlines you will see tomorrow, but amid their mole, the politicians who will circulate to try and mould and shape the impressions we will that work. it is the first time the general election campaign the leading figures of the seven parties have come together. there will be another one next thursday on itv. tonight, 90 minute debate did include some angry exchanges between angela rayner and the conservative leader of the house penny mordaunt. we will come to that shortly. of course, central to the beginning of the debate, the row over the prime minister's decision to leave the beachesin minister's decision to leave the beaches in normandy, decision he's apologise for. it was penny mordaunt, enable reserve s, someone who has an honorary command in unable forces, who represents portsmouth, he was there for the conservatives to give their response. we will play that shortly, and will get to the clips and how the parties see it. what did you make of it?— the parties see it. what did you make of it? , . . . , ., make of it? very watchable. it was tuite make of it? very watchable. it was quite courteous, _ make of it? very watchable. it was quite courteous, quite _ make of it? very watchable. it was| quite courteous, quite satisfactory. we heard fairy from everybody. quite an interesting focus when you think of the flashpoints between angela rayner and penny mordaunt. one was overtaxed, interesting to hear penny

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