are representing, our politicians don't deserve to be treated like that. it is dangerous. doesn't matter what the substance is, it is the thought of what it might be. i agree, beat him through argument, not foolish — agree, beat him through argument, not foolish tactics.— not foolish tactics. what are we exectinu not foolish tactics. what are we expecting over— not foolish tactics. what are we expecting over the _ not foolish tactics. what are we expecting over the coming - not foolish tactics. what are we i expecting over the coming weeks? labour have got to stiffen up and show_ labour have got to stiffen up and show some clear messaging about what they will_ show some clear messaging about what they will actually do. they have to stay on _ they will actually do. they have to stay on this stance that the fiscal policy— stay on this stance that the fiscal policy won't change. they must come up policy won't change. they must come up with_ policy won't change. they must come up with some straightforward ideas. this is_ up with some straightforward ideas. this is what— up with some straightforward ideas. this is what we will do for you as a result— this is what we will do for you as a result of— this is what we will do for you as a result of winning the election. are ou sa in: result of winning the election. fife you saying you haven't result of winning the election. fie you saying you haven't got result of winning the election. file you saying you haven't got enough clarity from...? in you saying you haven't got enough clarity from. . . ?_ clarity from. . . ? in the rutherglen bar-election. _ clarity from. . . ? in the rutherglen bar-election. it — clarity from. . . ? in the rutherglen by-election, it went _ clarity from. . . ? in the rutherglen by-election, it went well - clarity from. . . ? in the rutherglen by-election, it went well in - by—election, it went well in scotland. people are sick of the deal they— scotland. people are sick of the deal they are finally get it but getting there is impossible. the labour policy on the nhs isjust tinkering impossible. the labour policy on the nhs is just tinkering while impossible. the labour policy on the nhs isjust tinkering while rome burns. where is the vision to really grapple with the reality. when it was decided it was for 50 million people, now it is 70 million people living longer, in a way where we get to the age where we need more treatment. how do we deal with the big picture? i don't think either side has an answer, and they don't for immigration and the economy. 0n for immigration and the economy. on that positive note, back to you! thank you. i am back tomorrow, see you then. live from london, this is bbc news. rishi sunak and circular, clash the nhs, and aggression and the cost of living in theirfirst nhs, and aggression and the cost of living in their first televised debate at head of the general election. —— integration. mark my words — labour will raise your taxes. it's in their dna. your work, your car, your pension... thank you, 0k... ..you name it, labour will tax it. this is a prime minister who has put up this is a prime minister who has put up tax _ this is a prime minister who has put up tax 26 _ this is a prime minister who has put up tax 26 times. in other news, major london hospitals are hit by a cyber attack, leading to cancelled operations and emergency patients being moved. tests have revealed a newborn baby discovered in an east london park earlier this year is the sister of two other children abandoned by the same parents. and we set sail with world war ii veterans as they prepare to mark the 80th anniversary of the d—day landing. and coming up later this hour on bbc news, you will see the episode of the bbc�*s daily news podcast newscast which we have just recorded, wrapping up all the drama from the campaign trail today. hello, iam kylie hello, i am kylie pentelow. welcome to bbc news. in the biggest set—piece event of the election so far, sir keir starmer and rishi sunak have gone head to head in the first leaders tv debate can go to salford now where our correspondent rajini vaidyanathan correspondent rajini vaidya nathan has correspondent rajini vaidyanathan has been closely follow the events. rajini. has been closely follow the events. ra'ini. , , ., ., , , rajini. the spin room is still buzzin: rajini. the spin room is still buzzing here, _ rajini. the spin room is still buzzing here, although - rajini. the spin room is still| buzzing here, although most rajini. the spin room is still. buzzing here, although most of rajini. the spin room is still - buzzing here, although most of the senior politicians who were here have now left. we saw senior conservatives and senior labour politicians all talking up their candidate �*s performance in the debate. a yougov poll also with a rating on that debate push rishi sunak slightly ahead in terms of his performance, according to that yougov poll. i'm joined by two journalists to find out what they made of the debate. hello. a lot of journalists tapping away, writing their headlines for the morning. what is your take on this? obviously there was a — what is your take on this? obviously there was a lot _ what is your take on this? obviously there was a lot of anticipation - what is your take on this? obviously there was a lot of anticipation as - there was a lot of anticipation as there was a lot of anticipation as the first— there was a lot of anticipation as the first head to head, and are not many had — the first head to head, and are not many had two heads, where both parties _ many had two heads, where both parties have signed up at the moment, _ parties have signed up at the moment, i think if you look at some of the _ moment, i think if you look at some of the snap— moment, i think if you look at some of the snap holding, yougov, 51—4090 rishi sunak. _ of the snap holding, yougov, 51—4090 rishi sunak, you can get a sense the tories _ rishi sunak, you can get a sense the tories are _ rishi sunak, you can get a sense the tories are very happy with the prime minister's _ tories are very happy with the prime minister's performance. partly because — minister's performance. partly because if you think about general intention— because if you think about general intention pulling of you can find in terms _ intention pulling of you can find in terms of— intention pulling of you can find in terms of how far the tories are behind, — terms of how far the tories are behind, the fact he managed to even .et behind, the fact he managed to even get slightly ahead of keir starmer probably— get slightly ahead of keir starmer probably eyes rishi sunak a little bit of— probably eyes rishi sunak a little bit of space after a really, really difficult — bit of space after a really, really difficult start to the week, with the return of nigel farage, and i think— the return of nigel farage, and i think that — the return of nigel farage, and i think that tax attack which the tories — think that tax attack which the tories landed, there is a sense even on the _ tories landed, there is a sense even on the labour side keir starmer was a bit stow— on the labour side keir starmer was a bit stow to — on the labour side keir starmer was a bit slow to and beat it down. gk, a bit slow to and beat it down. ok, the son a bit slow to and beat it down. ok the son readership is considered a key building block for both parties. what is your headline tomorrow on the polls? what is your headline tomorrow on the olls? , , the polls? basically, it is looking at niel the polls? basically, it is looking at nigel farage, _ the polls? basically, it is looking at nigel farage, this _ the polls? basically, it is looking at nigel farage, this afternoon, | the polls? basically, it is looking i at nigel farage, this afternoon, had that milkshake _ at nigel farage, this afternoon, had that milkshake thrown _ at nigel farage, this afternoon, had that milkshake thrown over - at nigel farage, this afternoon, had that milkshake thrown over him, . at nigel farage, this afternoon, hadl that milkshake thrown over him, but shake, _ that milkshake thrown over him, but shake, battered _ that milkshake thrown over him, but shake, battered and _ that milkshake thrown over him, but shake, battered and pulled - that milkshake thrown over him, but shake, battered and pulled is the - shake, battered and pulled is the headline, — shake, battered and pulled is the headline, and _ shake, battered and pulled is the headline, and it— shake, battered and pulled is the headline, and it is— shake, battered and pulled is the headline, and it is the _ shake, battered and pulled is the headline, and it is the tease - headline, and it is the tease between _ headline, and it is the tease between rishi _ headline, and it is the tease between rishi and _ headline, and it is the tease between rishi and keir- headline, and it is the tease between rishi and keir on. headline, and it is the tease . between rishi and keir on tax, landing — between rishi and keir on tax, landing time _ between rishi and keir on tax, landing time and _ between rishi and keir on tax, landing time and time - between rishi and keir on tax, landing time and time again. l between rishi and keir on tax, - landing time and time again. sunak is behimi— landing time and time again. sunak is behind on— landing time and time again. sunak is behind on the _ landing time and time again. sunak is behind on the polls— landing time and time again. sunak is behind on the polls and - landing time and time again. sunak is behind on the polls and has- landing time and time again. sunak is behind on the polls and has to i landing time and time again. sunakj is behind on the polls and has to go out there _ is behind on the polls and has to go out there and — is behind on the polls and has to go out there and make _ is behind on the polls and has to go out there and make some _ is behind on the polls and has to go . out there and make some think change and the _ out there and make some think change and the bulk_ out there and make some think change and the bulk of— out there and make some think change and the bulk of it _ out there and make some think change and the bulk of it shows _ out there and make some think change and the bulk of it shows the _ out there and make some think change and the bulk of it shows the viewers i and the bulk of it shows the viewers showed _ and the bulk of it shows the viewers showed the — and the bulk of it shows the viewers showed the pm _ and the bulk of it shows the viewers showed the pm won _ and the bulk of it shows the viewers showed the pm won the _ and the bulk of it shows the viewers showed the pm won the debate - showed the pm won the debate tonight — showed the pm won the debate toniaht. . , ., ,. tonight. katy, do you thing he really landed _ tonight. katy, do you thing he really landed blows? - tonight. katy, do you thing he really landed blows? when i tonight. katy, do you thing he | really landed blows? when you tonight. katy, do you thing he - really landed blows? when you watch both of them, it got quite aggressive? at times he heard julie etchingham saying, come it down, especially on immigration, neither of them could answer the questions, principally. of them could answer the questions, rinci all . ., ., principally. integration... keir starmer got — principally. integration... keir starmer got the _ principally. integration... keir starmer got the audience - principally. integration... keir starmer got the audience to l principally. integration... keir- starmer got the audience to laugh at rishi sunak —— immigration. both your— rishi sunak —— immigration. both your to _ rishi sunak —— immigration. both your to land — rishi sunak —— immigration. both your to land was not as aggressive they got— your to land was not as aggressive they got accused of disrupting the whole _ they got accused of disrupting the whole event. and i think that ultimately, perhaps the tories are little bit _ ultimately, perhaps the tories are little bit more pleased with that performance, but you take a step back_ performance, but you take a step back at _ performance, but you take a step back at the — performance, but you take a step back at the more general picture, labour— back at the more general picture, labour are — back at the more general picture, labour are still about when he points— labour are still about when he points ahead in all the polls, and i thick— points ahead in all the polls, and i thick you — points ahead in all the polls, and i thick you can question whether this is a game _ thick you can question whether this is a game changer enough of an event to reatiy— is a game changer enough of an event to really impact that. i do not think— to really impact that. i do not think it — to really impact that. i do not think it is _ to really impact that. i do not think it is clear it is at the moment _ think it is clear it is at the moment. i think that's why labour are fairly— moment. i think that's why labour are fairly relaxed even if people think— are fairly relaxed even if people think keir— are fairly relaxed even if people think keir starmer could have done a little bit _ think keir starmer could have done a little bit more in places. what think keir starmer could have done a little bit more in places.— little bit more in places. what is our take little bit more in places. what is your take on _ little bit more in places. what is your take on that? _ little bit more in places. what is your take on that? i _ little bit more in places. what is your take on that? i think - little bit more in places. what is your take on that? i think rishil your take on that? i think rishi sunak is running _ your take on that? i think rishi sunak is running out _ your take on that? i think rishi sunak is running out of time, l your take on that? i think rishi - sunak is running out of time, those bil sunak is running out of time, those big moments— sunak is running out of time, those big moments are _ sunak is running out of time, those big moments are few— sunak is running out of time, those big moments are few and _ sunak is running out of time, those big moments are few and far- sunak is running out of time, those . big moments are few and far between. you've _ big moments are few and far between. you've got— big moments are few and far between. you've got tonight, _ big moments are few and far between. you've got tonight, you _ big moments are few and far between. you've got tonight, you have _ big moments are few and far between. you've got tonight, you have another. you've got tonight, you have another ieaders _ you've got tonight, you have another ieaders debate, _ you've got tonight, you have another leaders debate, the _ you've got tonight, you have another leaders debate, the seven— you've got tonight, you have another leaders debate, the seven way- you've got tonight, you have anotherl leaders debate, the seven way debate on the _ leaders debate, the seven way debate oh the bbc_ leaders debate, the seven way debate on the bbc towards _ leaders debate, the seven way debate on the bbc towards the _ leaders debate, the seven way debate on the bbc towards the end _ leaders debate, the seven way debate on the bbc towards the end of- leaders debate, the seven way debate on the bbc towards the end of the - on the bbc towards the end of the week, _ on the bbc towards the end of the week, and the _ on the bbc towards the end of the week, and the manifesto, - on the bbc towards the end of the week, and the manifesto, he's- on the bbc towards the end of thei week, and the manifesto, he'sjust ruhhihg _ week, and the manifesto, he'sjust running out — week, and the manifesto, he'sjust running out of— week, and the manifesto, he'sjust running out of time, _ week, and the manifesto, he'sjust running out of time, only— week, and the manifesto, he'sjust running out of time, only four- week, and the manifesto, he'sjust i running out of time, only four weeks left. running out of time, only four weeks left he _ running out of time, only four weeks left he is _ running out of time, only four weeks left he is sore — running out of time, only four weeks left. he is sore don't— running out of time, only four weeks left. he is sore don't ask— running out of time, only four weeks left. he is sore don't ask so - running out of time, only four weeks left. he is sore don't ask so far- left. he is sore don't ask so far behind — left. he is sore don't ask so far behind in — it isa it is a damage limitation exercise for them — it is a damage limitation exercise for them i— it is a damage limitation exercise for them. i think— it is a damage limitation exercise for them. i think if— it is a damage limitation exercise for them. i think if they- it is a damage limitation exercise for them. i think if they can - it is a damage limitation exercise for them. i think if they can get l for them. i think if they can get 200 _ for them. i think if they can get 200 seats, _ for them. i think if they can get 200 seats, a _ for them. i think if they can get 200 seats, a job _ for them. i think if they can get 200 seats, a job well— for them. i think if they can get 200 seats, a job well done. - for them. i think if they can get 200 seats, a job well done. let for them. i think if they can get 200 seats, a job well done. 200 seats, a 'ob well done. let me ask ou 200 seats, a job well done. let me ask you about _ 200 seats, a job well done. let me ask you about some _ 200 seats, a job well done. let me ask you about some of _ 200 seats, a job well done. let me ask you about some of the - 200 seats, a job well done. let me i ask you about some of the questions, because at the end it was the audience that dictated what was on the agenda and that hour in ten minutes today. the nhs, the cost of living, big issues in this election campaign. also, international policy as well came up? campaign. also, international policy as well came op?— campaign. also, international policy as well came up? yeah, i thought the bi one as well came up? yeah, i thought the big one was — as well came up? yeah, i thought the big one was the _ as well came up? yeah, i thought the big one was the cost-of-living - big one was the cost—of—living crisis — big one was the cost—of—living crisis it— big one was the cost—of—living crisis. it always _ big one was the cost—of—living crisis. it always comes - big one was the cost—of—living crisis. it always comes up - big one was the cost—of—living crisis. it always comes up as i crisis. it always comes up as the number— crisis. it always comes up as the number one _ crisis. it always comes up as the number one feature _ crisis. it always comes up as the number one feature and - crisis. it always comes up as the number one feature and number one point _ number one feature and number one point for— number one feature and number one point for our— number one feature and number one point for our readers, _ number one feature and number one point for our readers, and _ number one feature and number one point for our readers, and paula - point for our readers, and paula from _ point for our readers, and paula from huddersfield _ point for our readers, and paula from huddersfield said - point for our readers, and paula from huddersfield said she - point for our readers, and paula from huddersfield said she hadl point for our readers, and paulal from huddersfield said she had a batch _ from huddersfield said she had a batch cook— from huddersfield said she had a batch cook and _ from huddersfield said she had a batch cook and weekends - from huddersfield said she had a batch cook and weekends just i from huddersfield said she had a - batch cook and weekends just because you cannot _ batch cook and weekends just because you cannot afford _ batch cook and weekends just because you cannot afford her— batch cook and weekends just because you cannot afford her oven _ batch cook and weekends just because you cannot afford her oven on - batch cook and weekends just because you cannot afford her oven on at - you cannot afford her oven on at peak _ you cannot afford her oven on at peak times, _ you cannot afford her oven on at peaktimes, and— you cannot afford her oven on at peaktimes, and keir— you cannot afford her oven on at peaktimes, and keir starmer. you cannot afford her oven on at peak times, and keir starmer ai peaktimes, and keir starmera iittie _ peaktimes, and keir starmera little bit — peaktimes, and keir starmera little bit more _ peaktimes, and keir starmera little bit more empathetic- peaktimes, and keir starmera little bit more empathetic on. peak times, and keir starmer a i little bit more empathetic on that, and rishi _ little bit more empathetic on that, and rishi sunak, _ little bit more empathetic on that, and rishi sunak, it— little bit more empathetic on that, and rishi sunak, it is— little bit more empathetic on that, and rishi sunak, it is always - little bit more empathetic on that, and rishi sunak, it is always bit i and rishi sunak, it is always bit more _ and rishi sunak, it is always bit more difficult _ and rishi sunak, it is always bit more difficult to _ and rishi sunak, it is always bit more difficult to empathise - and rishi sunak, it is always bit| more difficult to empathise with and rishi sunak, it is always bit . more difficult to empathise with a member— more difficult to empathise with a member of— more difficult to empathise with a member of the _ more difficult to empathise with a member of the public— more difficult to empathise with a member of the public because - more difficult to empathise with a - member of the public because labour wouidn't _ member of the public because labour wouidn't is _ member of the public because labour wouldn't is landi _ member of the public because labour wouldn't is landi blow— member of the public because labour wouldn't is landi blow that _ member of the public because labour wouldn't is landi blow that he's - member of the public because labour wouldn't is landi blow that he's out . wouldn't is landi blow that he's out of touch— wouldn't is landi blow that he's out of touch and — wouldn't is landi blow that he's out of touch and he's _ wouldn't is landi blow that he's out of touch and he's wealthy, - wouldn't is landi blow that he's out of touch and he's wealthy, etc, - wouldn't is landi blow that he's out of touch and he's wealthy, etc, etc| of touch and he's wealthy, etc, etc -- wiii— of touch and he's wealthy, etc, etc -- will always— of touch and he's wealthy, etc, etc —— will always landi _ of touch and he's wealthy, etc, etc —— will always landi blow. - of touch and he's wealthy, etc, etc —— will always landi blow. 0n- of touch and he's wealthy, etc, etc —— will always landi blow. 0n the i —— will always landi blow. 0n the domestic— —— will always landi blow. 0n the domestic point, _ —— will always landi blow. 0n the domestic point, i— —— will always landi blow. 0n the domestic point, i thought - —— will always landi blow. 0n the domestic point, i thought the - —— will always landi blow. 0n thel domestic point, i thought the cost of living _ domestic point, i thought the cost of living boint _ domestic point, i thought the cost of living point landed _ domestic point, i thought the cost of living point landed well, - domestic point, i thought the cost of living point landed well, and . of living point landed well, and then— of living point landed well, and then prices, _ of living point landed well, and then prices, they— of living point landed well, and then prices, they are _ of living point landed well, and then prices, they are coming . of living point landed well, and - then prices, they are coming down but have _ then prices, they are coming down but have been— then prices, they are coming down but have been at _ then prices, they are coming down but have been at such _ then prices, they are coming down but have been at such a _ then prices, they are coming down but have been at such a high - then prices, they are coming down but have been at such a high level| but have been at such a high level for such— but have been at such a high level for such a — but have been at such a high level for such a long _ but have been at such a high level for such a long time, _ but have been at such a high level for such a long time, really - for such a long time, really difficult _ for such a long time, really difficult for— for such a long time, really difficult for rishi _ for such a long time, really difficult for rishi sunak - for such a long time, really difficult for rishi sunak to i for such a long time, really - difficult for rishi sunak to defend. katy. _ difficult for rishi sunak to defend. katy. in— difficult for rishi sunak to defend. katy. in a — difficult for rishi sunak to defend. katy. in a way— difficult for rishi sunak to defend. katy. in a way it _ difficult for rishi sunak to defend. katy, in a way it came _ difficult for rishi sunak to defend. katy, in a way it came down- difficult for rishi sunak to defend. katy, in a way it came down to - difficult for rishi sunak to defend. l katy, in a way it came down to keir starmer saying, look at the last 14 years, judge rishi sunak on that but notjust him, mentioning liz truss and her brief time in office, and rishi sunak saying, we will look to the future. which argument do you thick was more compelling tonight? is a harder argument to have to defend — is a harder argument to have to defend 14— is a harder argument to have to defend 14 years, which had lots of problems. — defend 14 years, which had lots of problems, i thick as you say, if you are problems, ! thick as you say, if you are not— problems, i thick as you say, if you are not washing the debate, you just listen _ are not washing the debate, you just listen to— are not washing the debate, you just listen to the name mentions, you might— listen to the name mentions, you might have — listen to the name mentions, you might have thought liz truss was in it. might have thought liz truss was in it keir— might have thought liz truss was in it. keir starmer mentioned her so many— it. keir starmer mentioned her so many times. when rishi sunak said, in the _ many times. when rishi sunak said, in the past, — many times. when rishi sunak said, in the past, you have had 14 years in the past, you have had 14 years in opposition, labour, and where are your ideas? — in opposition, labour, and where are your ideas? that is something they will your ideas? that is something they wiii keep— your ideas? that is something they will keep pushing on, because when you come _ will keep pushing on, because when you come away from that hour, i didn't— you come away from that hour, i didn't really learn that much more about— didn't really learn that much more about what— didn't really learn that much more about what keir starmer plans to us prime _ about what keir starmer plans to us prime minister, perhaps not such a problem _ prime minister, perhaps not such a problem if— prime minister, perhaps not such a problem if they will not have too many _ problem if they will not have too many more of these debates, but something that could be an issue if the manifesto was seen to be dry or nothing _ the manifesto was seen to be dry or nothing new in it. ok, the manifesto was seen to be dry or nothing new in it.— nothing new in it. ok, katy and r an, nothing new in it. ok, katy and ryan. thank— nothing new in it. ok, katy and ryan. thank you _ nothing new in it. ok, katy and ryan, thank you for _ nothing new in it. ok, katy and ryan, thank you for taking - nothing new in it. ok, katy and ryan, thank you for taking us l ryan, thank you for taking us through what the headlines might be tomorrow. as you can see, the spin room is fairly busy! colleagues over there, sky news, we spoke to both of them earlier on on the news channel that we don't need to talk to them, and over there, you concealed the journalists still a hive of activity. we are fact checking —— you can see. we are giving plenty of analysis on the bbc website. there is a qr code next to me. you'll get all the information and postevent analysis. from the spin room, things are turning to pack up now, i will hand back to you, kylie.- hand back to you, kylie. ra'ini, thank you. fl hand back to you, kylie. ra'ini, thank you. let's i hand back to you, kylie. ra'ini, thank you. let's take �* hand back to you, kylie. ra'ini, thank you. let's take an i hand back to you, kylie. rajini, l thank you. let's take an in-depth thank you. let's take an in—depth look at what happened tonight with our political editor chris mason. is tonight the night you can turn things around, prime minister? the big question for rishi sunak. the polls aren't budging. could this be the moment for a game changer? and here's the guy who wants hisjob. is tonight the night you seal the deal? pleasantries, smiles and — you can bet for both of them — a bag of nerves. the debate under way, and the biggest topic of our time, the cost of living, set out by paula from huddersfield in the studio audience. my savings are gone and i'm - genuinely worried about my future. i don't think you understand . how this is for people like me. so what can you do about that? both men expressed sympathy, and then the argument began. of course i know everyone is only just starting to feel the benefits, but inflation is back to normal, wages are growing, taxes are now being cut. keir starmer would put all that progress at risk. he would put up everyone's taxes by £2,000. keir starmer. paula, i don't know how you feel when you hear a prime minister say, having heard what you are going through, that the plan is working, it's all all right. i meet so many people who are struggling with their bills, and the prime minister just keeps saying... he lives in a different world. next, listen to this exchange on nhs waiting lists where the audience laughed at the prime minister. we are now making progress. the waiting lists are coming down. but what keir starmer didn't mention to you, which you did, julie... waiting lists were 7.2 million. they're now 7.5 million. he says they're coming down, and this is the guy who says he's good at maths. yeah, they are now coming down. they are now coming down. 7.2, when you said you'd get them down... 7.2 million — they're now 7.5 million. i'd like you to explain how they're coming down. because they were coming down from where they were when they were higher... laughter they are down, right? and both offered direct answers to this question. if you had loved ones on - a long waiting list for surgery, would you, if you felt that - that was the only way forward, use private health care? rishi sunak? yes. keir starmer? no. what about how much tax you might have to pay after the election? please raise your. hand if i am wrong. you as prime minister. will not raise income tax. you will not raise national- insurance in the next parliament. and, other than labour on private i schools, you will not raise vat. i thank you for that . instructive moment. so, how will either of them pay for things? we will raise specific taxes, and we've been really clear what they are. we've already dealt with the tax break on private schools. we want to end the non—dom status completely. i think that the super—rich should be paying their tax. yes, well, we have already scrapped the non—dom regime. and then promises, finger wagging, interruptions on pensions. please let mr sunak finish. ..the triple lock plus, so that we raise the personal allowance for pensioners and ensure that the state pension is never subject to tax. that's what you'll get under a future conservative government. keir starmer hasn't matched that pledge, which means, for the first time in our country's history, if labour are elected, pensioners will pay tax. i do not think that is right, and you should explain to everyone why you think pensioners will be paying a retirement tax under your government. the big problem with liz truss is that she made unfunded tax cuts. the prime minister is doing the same thing... next, it was stephen from warrington. politicians have broken so many promises on immigration. - why should i trust either of you? and we will need bold action to bring it down, whether that's legal immigration, where we're going to introduce a new legal cap to guarantee that it will come down every year, or the boats, which you mentioned. we got the numbers down last year by a third, and now we have a deterrent ready to go. migrants have been detained, the flights will go in july, but only if i'm your prime minister. we need to smash the gangs that are running this vile trade, making a huge amount of money putting some of the most vulnerable people in boats across the channel. they're making a fortune. and the tension was rising. 0k... what are you going to do? just tell everybody, what are you going to do with illegal migrants who arrive? rishi sunak, please, can we just...? please, gentlemen, - we will lower our voices. and there was a dividing line on this specific measure. if your rwanda plan is blocked - by the courts, and will this appear in your manifesto, that _ you would remove the uk from the european convention on human rights? is that part of your plan? i'm crystal clear. i believe all our plans are compliant with our international obligations, but if i am forced to choose between securing our borders and our country's security or a foreign court, i'm going to choose our country's security every single time. if i'm prime minister, we will not pull out of international agreements and international law which is respected the world over, because i want the uk to be a respected player on the global stage, not a pariah. and this debate is not yet done. when it is, the spin will begin to attempt to answer the big question — who won? chris mason, bbc news, in salford. let's head to westminster now and speak to our political correspondent. i want to start with that yougov poll on the debate which puts a performance of rishi sunak as asked by 51% to keir starmer at 49%. what you make of that, very close? it is very close and obviously the conservatives will be delighted. it is hardly a surprise that that spin that chris mason was talking about came pretty fast and furious after the debate, both sides, you won't be surprised to hear, claiming victory, but it was very close. i think, though, given the events of the last couple of days, those big polls showing a labour lead over the news that nigel farage and reform uk were going to be going onto the attack against the conservatives, this was something that the conservatives really wanted to see as a success for rishi sunak. we should not forget either that rishi sunak at the beginning of this election campaign was pushing for more of these debates with keir starmer. this was something he had actively wanted. these events are actually very rare in british politics. this is only the third head to head debate between prime ministerial candidates that we have ever had, so the conservatives obviously very pleased with that yougov poll, but actually it does show that it was very, very close. when people were casting their verdict on what they made of that debate, and the two men taking part. do made of that debate, and the two men takin: art. ,. ~' made of that debate, and the two men takin: art. ,., ~ .,, taking part. do you think there was an hint of taking part. do you think there was any hint of getting _ taking part. do you think there was any hint of getting to _ taking part. do you think there was any hint of getting to know - taking part. do you think there was any hint of getting to know the - any hint of getting to know the men themselves? because there has been a bit of criticism, particularly sir keir starmer�*s way, that people don't actually know the man. yes. these are — don't actually know the man. yes. these are two _ don't actually know the man. yes. these are two men _ don't actually know the man. yes. these are two men who _ don't actually know the man. yes. these are two men who faced - don't actually know the man. yes these are two men who faced each other in the house of commons every week, of course, in prime minister's questions, but this was a very, very different environment and it was an opportunity for them to re—introduce themselves to the voters, perhaps introduce themselves to the first time, and so we did very quickly get them talking about what their parents had done for a living, we learned about their parent's occupations, they talked about their backgrounds. it is an opportunity, this kind of debate, to show some of your personality, some of your character as a political leader. it's not simply about having an argument over policy, and i think that we saw both leaders there making a concerted effort to do that, to reach out to voters, and of course because of the debate format, it did mean that they were facing questions from voters, and so they were face—to—face with a live audience and they were having to react to that and, again, refuel part of their personality. i react to that and, again, refuel part of their personality. i think one of the _ part of their personality. i think one of the most _ part of their personality. i think one of the most interesting - one of the most interesting questions for me did come from julie etchingham, whether each leader would allow a family member or would want a family member to have private health care if they thought that they could jump the queue mac so to speak. that was quite an interesting division, wasn't it?— division, wasn't it? yes, they had already had _ division, wasn't it? yes, they had already had an — division, wasn't it? yes, they had already had an argument - division, wasn't it? yes, they had already had an argument about i division, wasn't it? yes, they had i already had an argument about nhs waiting lists in england, and this question was, if you had a member of yourfamily who could question was, if you had a member of your family who could not get treatment on the nhs, would you use private health care? rishi sunak said yes very quickly and that was the extent of his answer. keir starmer said no and he said he would only use the nhs. so an insight into their approach to these things, rishi sunak very apparently untroubled by that question at all, keir starmer looking to make a point that he kept on saying the nhs was in his dna. ., ., in his dna. ok, we will have to leave it there. _ in his dna. ok, we will have to leave it there. sean _ in his dna. ok, we will have to leave it there. sean curran - leave it there. sean curran at westminster, think you very much indeed. lots of claims and counter claims have been made during the debate and bbc verify�*s nick eardley�*s been looking at them. we've had a team of fact checkers looking at what's been said to help you make your decisions about who you want to be prime minister. let's start with tax. here's a reminder of what was said. keir starmer would put all that progress at risk. he would put up everyone's taxes by £2,000 — £2,000 in higher taxes for every working family in our country. he's the british expert on tax rises. they're at the highest level for 70 years. let's start with that claim that taxes would go up £2,000 for every working family under labour. that's based on a dossier the conservative party put together. it claims there's a 58.5 billion black hole in labour's spending plans. but this is important. some of the assumptions behind the calculations to get this are questionable. it assumes, for example, that it's always a lot less efficient for the public sector to do things than the private sector. so a dollop of caution here when it comes to that claim. labour, by the way, have made some questionable claims of their own. they didn't come up tonight, but there is more on the bbc website. next, the overall taxation level. it is right to say, as you can see from this graphic, that the tax take since the general election has gone up compared to the size of the economy. you can see it going up. it's forecast to actually go up quite a lot towards the end there, in part because income tax thresholds have been frozen. that means as you earn more money in line with inflation, you pay more tax. rishi sunak has cut national insurance recently, but as you can see from this, keir starmer was right to say, overall, taxes are up. next, have a look at this exchange on the nhs. but we are now making progress. the waiting lists are coming down. but what keir starmer didn't mention to you, which you did, julie... waiting lists were at 7.2 million. they're now 7.5 million. he says they're coming down and this guy says he's good at maths. yeah, they are. they are now coming down. 7.2... when you said you get them down at 7.2 million, they are 7.5 million. i'd like you to explain how they're coming down, because they were coming down from where they were when they were higher and they're now on the way down. they are down, right? you can actually see where they're both coming from here. this is the picture when it comes to waiting lists — just for england, by the way. you can see they go up quite significantly after the pandemic. they reached 7.8 million. you can see it's come down a bit here, but the levels now are higher than they were when rishi sunak took over as prime minister. he says that a lot of this is down to strikes and it is true to say they have had some impact. finally, let's look at small boats crossings. rishi sunak said they were down a third. keir starmer said they were up this year. well, this is the picture. i think we can show you a graphic here. they did fall significantly last year. the 2023 figure was down from 2022, but they were still the second highest on record, and so far, at this point of 2024, they are the highest they've been on record. nick eardley there. as the uk election campaign plays out, many different issues and policies will come to the fore. and this week, bbc launched your voice, your vote. it's asking those of you — what are the issues that really matter to you? what would you like us to explain? and where would you like us to report from and why? through the campaign, bbc news analysis editor ros atkins will be looking through what you send and doing his best to provide answers. through the election campaign, bbc news is asking you to let us know which issues you'd like us to explain, and you're keeping us on our toes. already, we've received thousands of questions. some are about party manifestos. a number of you, including luke in dartford, have asked... well, luke, not yet. the manifestos could be launched next week, but aside from the 30th ofjune for plaid cymru, we don't have the dates confirmed yet. for context, at the last general election in 2019, the labour manifesto was launched three weeks before polling day. the conservatives followed three days later. right now, we're just over four weeks away from polling day. now, francisco in tyne and wear highlights the unexpected timing of this election and asks... of course, rishi sunak knew about this election before everyone else, and already several conservative manifesto announcements have been made. labour has also unveiled a pledge card with six key policies that will be in its manifesto. and the liberal democrats, the snp and other parties have made policy announcements too. so, work on the manifestos is well under way. now this next question is coming up a lot too. 0liver asks... well, those promises won't be legally binding. we can't be sure they'll happen, but politically they do matter. as the institute for government points out... there's also a convention that policies based on manifestos are not blocked by the house of lords. giving further weight to these promises, and failing to keep manifesto commitments can bring political risk, as the conservatives campaign, critics are highlighting that several key promises from the conservatives manifesto in 2019 haven't happened. responding to this, the government points to unexpected events such as covid and the war in ukraine. and here's one further question from carly, who asks... well, carly, the answer to that is yes. not least here at bbc news. once the manifestos are published, our website will have summaries of them and links if you want to read them in full. thanks very much indeed to all of you who've sent questions. do keep them coming. you can reach us on the bbc news app or via bbc.co.uk/news ros atkins. let's take a look at tomorrow's newspapers. the telegraph pictures on the cursor summer, saying he was on the ropes over tax in his debate with rishi sunak, meanwhile, the member relegates the debate to the corner of the front page, saying there were groans for the prime minister when he talked about the nhs —— sir keir starmer. the times says rishi sunak came out fighting and based his attacks on labour contacts. the daily mail says rishi sunak came out swinging and landed some big blows. meanwhile, the guardian says the leaders have clashed on migration, tax and the nhs, in what describes as an ill tempered debate. the express also prince mr sunak�*s claim about labour tax policy, if you're watching earlier, he would have seen nick eardley from bbc verify testing those claims, which you can also read more about on our website. let's move on to other news now. several major hospitals in london have declared a critical incident because of a cyber attack. some operations have been cancelled, and there have been problems in particular with blood transfusions and test results. helena wilkinson reports. 0perations have had to be cancelled. blood transfusions and test results have been particularly affected, as have other routine tests. guy's and st thomas' hospital in the heart of the capital is one of the nhs trusts affected by the major it incident. king's college hospital, the royal brompton, and the evelina london children's hospital as well as other services have been affected. about 6.50 last night, i received an e—mail and a text that both had exactly the same information on, confirming that due to circumstances beyond their control, blood tests had been cancelled for the foreseeable future. nhs england describe the impact as significant, adding that emergency care continued to be available. it is thought the incident happened yesterday, some departments were unable to connect to the main server. the it service partner has said sorry to patients impacted by the disruption, recognising the upset it has caused. it is not clear how long the disruption to patients and services will last. helena wilkinson, bbc news. some of the last surviving veterans who fought in the second world war are in normandy to commemorate 80 years since d—day. it was a turning point in the war, as allied troops landed on the coast of northern france and began the liberation from nazi occupation. john maguire reports. for many of these veterans, their departure from the shores 80 years ago, all as very young man, was their first venture overseas. cheering. excitement and a sense of celebration will, in coming days, turne to commemoration. turn to commemoration. stan ford survived as his ship was sunk by a mini submarine, but many other members of the group were killed. as you know, john, i have 32 reasons for going back, 32 guys who never came home. i made that promise to myself that every opportunity i would go

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