overnight, back into northern ireland and southern scotland —— the rain will track north. now to the north of that band of rain it could be quite chilly for a while in northern this programme continues on bbc one. published by michael gove tomorrow — help stamp out extremist ideologies, as it claims? since october 7th, anti—semitic and anti—muslim hate cases have soared. the government says its new "more precise" defintiion of extremism will tackle the ever—evolving threat of such behaviour in our country. will it? we'll ask the secretary general of the muslim council of britain and the policy director of a think tank called the counter extremism group which works closely with mps. also tonight, the labour leader drills down on the tory party being "bankrolled", as he put it, by a businessman who reportedly said diane abbott made him want to "hate all black women" and that she should be shot. meanwhile, there are growing calls for labour to restore the whip to ms abbott. we'll speak to labour mp apsana begum. plus, there's been a big rise in egg freezing for non—medical reasons over the past decade in the uk. why are some spending thousands of pounds on an invasive procedure, often for the benefit of others? i'v e i've seen what it does to women, i have seen what it does to relationships could if we are not using them, i would like to see them go to a good home. and we're only halfway through the week but it's already been a big political one, with the lee anderson defection, mr hester�*s racist comments and the way downing street handled that, plus the spotlight on labour's own investigation of diane abbott. our westminster watchers are here with their half—time thoughts. good evening. the prime minister said today at pmqs that there "has been a rise in extremists who are trying to hijack our democracy". tomorrow the government's set to announce a new definition of extremism which is likely to mean that certain groups and individuals who fall foul of it won't qualify for funding from government or be able to engage in meetings with local or central government or other public bodies. they say it's in response to an increased extremist threat in the uk since the october 7th atrocities by hamas in israel. for his part, the labour leader told a newspaper last month that rishi sunak "needs to get a grip and take on the extremists" in his own party. the new definition will be announced in a week in which some have said that a top tory donor reportedly calling for diane abbott to be shot is the very definition of extreme. here'sjoe. it was supposed to be the government's big moment of the week. something so important to rishi sunak that earlier this month he made speech about it. since october seven, they have been those trying to take advantage of the very human angst we all feel about the terrible suffering that war brings to the innocent and women and children come to advance a divisive and hateful ideological agenda. on too many occasions recently, our streets have been hijacked by small groups who are hostile to our values and have no respect for our democratic traditions. the uk's counter—extremism strategy is a little old. the existing definition of extremism focuses on "vocal or active opposition to fundamental british values". including democracy, the rule of law etc. but tomorrow we expect that to broaden to include the "promotion or advancement of an ideology based on violence, hatred or intolerance." now, this will have no effect on the law. no—one will be criminalised. that's a very different system, involving the terrorism act and proscribed organisations like hamas, boko haram in nigeria, and, more recently, russian mercenaries the wagner group. instead, communities secretary michael gove intends to use this new definition of extremism to draw up a list of those whose conduct falls short of criminality. he effectively want to try and ban individuals and organisations from public life. so stopping government departments from meeting them and funding them. effectively, deplatforming organisations they believe undermine democracy. now, sources within government insist free speech will always be protected. but some are concerned. especially because a lot of the focus of the debate on extremism has involved conservative criticism of pro—palestine protests. so who's on the list? i'm told we'll find out in the coming weeks, and the only way to challenge being classed as an extremist organisation is via a judicial review in the high court. let's speak to secretary general of the muslim council of britain zara mohammed, and tom wilson, director of policy at the counter extremism group, a think tank which works with mps on extremism policy. thank you for being with us. mr wilson, white is a new definition needed? —— why is it needed. i wilson, white is a new definition needed? -- why is it needed. i think the definition _ needed? -- why is it needed. i think the definition we _ needed? -- why is it needed. i think the definition we have _ needed? -- why is it needed. i think the definition we have is _ needed? -- why is it needed. i think the definition we have is quite - the definition we have is quite broad and vague and government needs to be much more clear and specific about what it is talking about when it uses a term like extremism, so it can have a coherent policy about who it will consult with and take advice from and ultimately, who it will give public money to. as was found in the shawcross review of prevent counter radicalisation scheme, some public money had gone to extremist groups that was intended to counter extremism. d0 groups that was intended to counter extremism. , ., ~ ., extremism. do you think a new definition is _ extremism. do you think a new definition is needed? _ extremism. do you think a new definition is needed? i- extremism. do you think a new definition is needed? i think i extremism. do you think a new definition is needed? i think of| definition is needed? i think of course we _ definition is needed? i think of course we want _ definition is needed? i think of course we want to _ definition is needed? i think of course we want to tackle - definition is needed? i think of - course we want to tackle extremism and it _ course we want to tackle extremism and it is_ course we want to tackle extremism and it is critical to do so and nobody— and it is critical to do so and nobody is _ and it is critical to do so and nobody is against that but what we are currently seeing through this pr0posal— are currently seeing through this proposal is the unfair targeting of muslim _ proposal is the unfair targeting of muslim communities and palestinian groups _ muslim communities and palestinian u-rous. ~ , ., muslim communities and palestinian u-rous.~ , ., ., muslim communities and palestinian l groue5-_ because groups. why do you say that? because we were reported _ groups. why do you say that? because we were reported as _ groups. why do you say that? because we were reported as one _ groups. why do you say that? because we were reported as one of _ groups. why do you say that? because we were reported as one of the - we were reported as one of the groups— we were reported as one of the groups that might be on that list that michael gove is planning to produce. — that michael gove is planning to produce, and we have heard from the archbishop _ produce, and we have heard from the archbishop of canterbury and york saying _ archbishop of canterbury and york saying this — archbishop of canterbury and york saying this would be unfairly targeting muslim groups and very divisive — targeting muslim groups and very divisive. so targeting muslim groups and very divisive. ., , ., targeting muslim groups and very divisive. ., ~ ., divisive. so do you know if the muslim council _ divisive. so do you know if the muslim council is _ divisive. so do you know if the muslim council is going - divisive. so do you know if the muslim council is going to - divisive. so do you know if the muslim council is going to be | divisive. so do you know if the i muslim council is going to be cut off, as it were? are you going to be on the list? irate off, as it were? are you going to be on the list?— off, as it were? are you going to be on the list? we don't know if we are on the list? we don't know if we are on the list but _ on the list? we don't know if we are on the list but it _ on the list? we don't know if we are on the list but it has _ on the list? we don't know if we are on the list but it has been _ on the list? we don't know if we are on the list but it has been reported l on the list but it has been reported and i_ on the list but it has been reported and i thihk— on the list but it has been reported and i thinkjust to help people the implications of that, we are the broad—based diapers muslim body but —— is broad—based diapers muslim body but -- is a _ broad—based diapers muslim body but -- is a by— broad—based diapers muslim body but —— is a by calling the extremes as the leader. — —— is a by calling the extremes as the leader, you're calling 500 members, the hundreds of thousands of people _ members, the hundreds of thousands of people we represent and the broad paysiip_ of people we represent and the broad payslip muslim communities, it is quite _ payslip muslim communities, it is quite a _ payslip muslim communities, it is quite a big — payslip muslim communities, it is quite a big allegation and i think what _ quite a big allegation and i think what we're finding amongst ourselves and many— what we're finding amongst ourselves and many others that may be on the list is _ and many others that may be on the list is the _ and many others that may be on the list is the unfair targeting that culture — list is the unfair targeting that culture was an the propagation of extreme — culture was an the propagation of extreme yet again being used to stifle _ extreme yet again being used to stifle advocacy and demonise muslim communities. do stifle advocacy and demonise muslim communities— communities. do you accept the accusation _ communities. do you accept the accusation from _ communities. do you accept the accusation from the _ communities. do you accept the accusation from the muslim - communities. do you accept the i accusation from the muslim council of britain that it is unfairly targeting muslim activists? i of britain that it is unfairly targeting muslim activists? i can't see anything _ targeting muslim activists? i can't see anything in — targeting muslim activists? i can't see anything in either— targeting muslim activists? i can't see anything in either the - targeting muslim activists? i can't see anything in either the current| see anything in either the current definition or the wording that is being talked about that would hone in on muslims specifically, it seems to be a definition like that would be just as usable against far right extremists as it would islamist extremists as it would islamist extremists but i think the general british public looks at what has been going on in recent months, since october seven, when we saw the slaughter of its civilians by a miss and we saw people celebrating that on the streets of london, sometimes unfortunately in sermons at mosques and particularly online and many of that fell short of the legal threshold which meant police could not intervene or chose not to. and i think the public expect something to be done, there does need to be a more coherent and robust policy from the government to deal with things that fall below the criminal threshold, and that starts by the government itself saying, we will not engage and we will not budge, we will not take advice from groups that in any way are perhaps unequivocal about condemning the violent militant groups. it’s violent militant groups. it's interesting _ violent militant groups. it's interesting that _ violent militant groups. it's interesting that you bring out those examples because having this new definition would have, as far as i can see, zero impact on whether the police arrest people at matches who are chanting offensive or illegal chance. .. , are chanting offensive or illegal chance. , ., , �* . chance. exactly, it doesn't and that's what _ chance. exactly, it doesn't and that's what i'm _ chance. exactly, it doesn't and that's what i'm saying, - chance. exactly, it doesn't and that's what i'm saying, there l chance. exactly, it doesn't and| that's what i'm saying, there is clearly a gap... 50 that's what i'm saying, there is clearly a gap- - -_ clearly a gap... so why are you linkin: clearly a gap... so why are you linking the _ clearly a gap... so why are you linking the two? _ clearly a gap... so why are you linking the two? because - clearly a gap... so why are you linking the two? because the l linking the two? because the government _ linking the two? because the government needs _ linking the two? because the government needs to - linking the two? because the government needs to have i linking the two? because the - government needs to have strategies and policies in place for people who have not crossed a criminal threshold as the police interpret it, but who can be apprehended and dealt with in other ways, for a start by not legitimising them and funding them which in some cases has happened. and the public sector needs to be clear about who it engages with and works with. a school, for instance, when making a decision about who to invite to give a class on interfaith matters to students, i think it would be very helpfulfor students, i think it would be very helpful for them students, i think it would be very helpfulfor them to be students, i think it would be very helpful for them to be clear on how to understand extremism and make sure they are not exposing young people, for instance, to individuals that are going to promote the kind of narratives that undermine democracy and shared values in a cohesive society. is democracy and shared values in a cohesive society.— democracy and shared values in a cohesive society. is there anything wron: with cohesive society. is there anything wrong with that? _ cohesive society. is there anything wrong with that? if— cohesive society. is there anything wrong with that? if there - cohesive society. is there anything wrong with that? if there is - cohesive society. is there anything wrong with that? if there is a - cohesive society. is there anything wrong with that? if there is a list | wrong with that? if there is a list of organisations, individuals, which the government says, we don't think they should have any involvement in civic life, public life, and a school might find that list really helpful? school might find that list really helful? ~ ., ., , school might find that list really hel.fu[? ., ., , ., helpful? what i would say is, on what basis _ helpful? what i would say is, on what basis and _ helpful? what i would say is, on what basis and evidence, - helpful? what i would say is, on what basis and evidence, and i helpful? what i would say is, on what basis and evidence, and is| helpful? what i would say is, on i what basis and evidence, and is the government going to be looking in the mirror? we have seen in the last two weeks _ the mirror? we have seen in the last two weeks the former prime minister, the former— two weeks the former prime minister, the former home secretary and the former— the former home secretary and the former deputy chairman of the conservative party all making islamophobic and what we regard extreme — islamophobic and what we regard extreme right—wing views, the former prime _ extreme right—wing views, the former prime minister with a convicted criminai— prime minister with a convicted criminal in— prime minister with a convicted criminal in america whilst he praises— criminal in america whilst he praises a _ criminal in america whilst he praises a convicted criminal in the uk, tommy— praises a convicted criminal in the uk, tommy robinson, staying quiet, and former— uk, tommy robinson, staying quiet, and former home secretary think is are ticking — and former home secretary think is are ticking over and lee ellison accusing — are ticking over and lee ellison accusing the mayor of london are being _ accusing the mayor of london are being mates with islamist who are also controlling the city so does this definition also applied to the extremism we are seeing in the party question— extremism we are seeing in the party question -- _ extremism we are seeing in the party question —— lee anderson. let�*s extremism we are seeing in the party question -- lee anderson.— question -- lee anderson. let's look at what michael _ question -- lee anderson. let's look at what michael gove _ question -- lee anderson. let's look at what michael gove is _ question -- lee anderson. let's look at what michael gove is supposed - question -- lee anderson. let's look at what michael gove is supposed to | at what michael gove is supposed to be logical extremism is the promotion or advancement of an ideology based on violence, hatred or intolerance. those examples you have just given, they don't fall into that, do they? i have just given, they don't fall into that, do they?— have just given, they don't fall into that, do they? i think what we're seeing — into that, do they? i think what we're seeing is _ into that, do they? i think what we're seeing is what _ into that, do they? i think what we're seeing is what is - into that, do they? i think what we're seeing is what is the - into that, do they? i think what - we're seeing is what is the evidence basis _ we're seeing is what is the evidence basis that— we're seeing is what is the evidence basis that it — we're seeing is what is the evidence basis that it feels like muslim community is being targeted by this definition? we all accept that extremism should be tackled but 66% of britons _ extremism should be tackled but 66% of britons are also against the war in gaza, _ of britons are also against the war in gaza, hundreds of thousands of all faiths — in gaza, hundreds of thousands of all faiths and communities are marching _ all faiths and communities are marching and protesting so why are we singling out the fringes are not talking _ we singling out the fringes are not talking about the fact that, yes, of course _ talking about the fact that, yes, of course we — talking about the fact that, yes, of course we all care about it but what has been _ course we all care about it but what has been reported on that list are musiim _ has been reported on that list are muslim organisations and palestinian organisations. | muslim organisations and palestinian organisations-— organisations. i want to come back to 2009, organisations. i want to come back to 2009. in — organisations. i want to come back to 2009, in terms _ organisations. i want to come back to 2009, in terms of— organisations. i want to come back to 2009, in terms of your - to 2009, in terms of your organisation, i know you have been secretary general just for a organisation, i know you have been secretary generaljust for a few years, but the then labour government cut off ties with your organisation because of a former deputy general secretary who endorsed terror attacks on vessels enforcing un weapons blockade on gaza. labourthen enforcing un weapons blockade on gaza. labour then it is reported engaged, the conservatives have never engage with you, it's my understanding, since coming to power in 2010, so why would it make a difference if you were on the list, just explain? i difference if you were on the list, just “plain?— just explain? i think first of all, we are talking _ just explain? i think first of all, we are talking more _ just explain? i think first of all, we are talking more than - just explain? i think first of all, we are talking more than 14 - just explain? i think first of all, i we are talking more than 14 years now of— we are talking more than 14 years now of this — we are talking more than 14 years now of this non—engagement policy. is now of this non—engagement policy. is the _ now of this non—engagement policy. is the first _ now of this non—engagement policy. is the first female secretary generai— is the first female secretary general of the organisation, now in 2024. _ general of the organisation, now in 2024. you — general of the organisation, now in 2024, you ask a question, who is the government— 2024, you ask a question, who is the government engaging with what they are doing. _ government engaging with what they are doing, the implication is we do lots of— are doing, the implication is we do lots of work— are doing, the implication is we do lots of work in terms of bringing communities together, encouraging musiim _ communities together, encouraging muslim participation in public life, interfaith — muslim participation in public life, interfaith dialogue, encouraging that community building, as we saw with covid, — that community building, as we saw with covid, that public response that we — with covid, that public response that we let for community organisations across the uk and building — organisations across the uk and building a — organisations across the uk and building a button that is notjust tolerant— building a button that is notjust tolerant but inclusive and works toqether~ — tolerant but inclusive and works together. by cancelling us out, the implication would be huge, notjust for us _ implication would be huge, notjust for us but _ implication would be huge, notjust for us but all of our members, the broad _ for us but all of our members, the broad main— for us but all of our members, the broad main street of muslim communities who would now be labelled — communities who would now be labelled as extreme pulled my back and is _ labelled as extreme pulled my back and is in _ labelled as extreme pulled my back and is in international human rights law, the idea i would be on a list considered — law, the idea i would be on a list considered extreme is notjust... you would — considered extreme is notjust... you would be label and extremist, you would be. just you would be label and extremist, you would be— you would be label and extremist, you would be. just for me would be so upsetting _ you would be. just for me would be so upsetting and — you would be. just for me would be so upsetting and distressing - you would be. just for me would be so upsetting and distressing to - so upsetting and distressing to think. — so upsetting and distressing to think. we — so upsetting and distressing to think, we often talk about this politics— think, we often talk about this politics and headlines and proposals, but that has an implication on everyday people and when _ implication on everyday people and when i _ implication on everyday people and when i took on this role to represent british muslim communities who want— represent british muslim communities who want to see a great britain, not extreme _ who want to see a great britain, not extreme britain, where attack, but that because i believe we can do something great and build a society where _ something great and build a society where all— something great and build a society where all are included fairly. do ou where all are included fairly. you accept where all are included fairly. drr you accept government, michael gove, he will have to provide evidence if he will have to provide evidence if he is going to come up with a list of names of individuals and organisations who he labels extremist?— organisations who he labels extremist? ~ , , ., organisations who he labels extremist? ~ , ., , extremist? absolutely, i would be amazed if the _ extremist? absolutely, i would be amazed if the government - extremist? absolutely, i would be amazed if the government did - extremist? absolutely, i would be amazed if the government did not| amazed if the government did not present a pretty robust case for anyone or organisation to put on the list because they know it will be open to legal challenge. so i'm sure they will be thinking about this very carefully. what i would say is that we have reached a point now where i think that if we simply allow things to slide as they are going, we have such a divisive atmosphere amount many of these dems which is happening, i have ajewish friends who say they will not go into central london when these demonstrations are happening. —— many of these demonstrations punt i've seen small market towns where people are calling for inter—fathers, it's absolutely unbelievable but we have legislation to deal with that, the police have powers to deal with at. we don't because the police don't think that calling forjihad even or intafada will lead to a rest so the government is right you have tab policies that is not always about the law because you don't want to infringe free speech and arrest people for saying things but that does set a clear line about what the british government is hoping the public sector will or will not stand for, and that can be disseminated throughout the civil society. and it also goes after the far right and it is not about targeting any minority, and then minorities who feel there is eight being whipped up by the far right against them can also call on this definition to call out and challenge the government —— hate being whipped up. to make sure they are not being engaged with either. thank you very much. the calls for the prime minister to hand back the £10 million donated by frank hester over his reported racist comments don't appear to be going away. tonight, labour are saying there are still questions to answer. joe is back. we have got hold of a letter from the labour party chair, anneliese dodds, with two key questions. firstly, what is the status of frank hester, the donor at the centre of the row? has he been expelled? number ten won't answer questions on membership but that may be because some sources have suggested that the donor has never been a member of the conservative party. you don't need to be a member to be a donor. the second question from labour is about mr has to's continuing role in the party, whether the prime minister is going to cut ties. kevin hollinrake this morning suggested that perhaps they could take money from mr hester again. numberten not they could take money from mr hester again. number ten not wanting to comment on future donations but they said, as the pm said in prime minister's questions, the alleged comments were racist and wrong. the labour strategy if we're being honest is to try and keep the story going, potentially into tomorrow, into a fourth day and the things adding to that are some conservatives like andy street and scottish conservatives's dennis ross questioning whether the money should be handed back. also diane abbott herself. she wasn't selected in the commons today, she was bobbing, trying to get the speaker's eye, she has written an article in the independent critical of notjust the conservatives, saying the tory party has long been a source of whipping up has long been a source of whipping up racism in the country, but also criticism of racism, she claims, in her party, saying there are shocking levels of racism and sexism in the labour party. as you touched on it isn'tjust rishi sunak who has been under pressure in recent days but also keir starmer because 11 months after diane abbott made a controversial comment, sir keir said they were anti—semitic and she later apologised, and she is still suspended from the labour party and many in labourthink suspended from the labour party and many in labour think that should change. we arejoined now by labour mp apsana begum, who has criticised frank hester�*s comments and was sat next to diane abbott during prime minister's questions today. thanks for being with us. what did you think about the fact that diane abbott was being discussed but wasn't called to speak herself? b5 wasn't called to speak herself? as ou wasn't called to speak herself? is you said, i was sitting next to diane abbott and i found it incredibly odd that it ended up being the case that she was being spoken about and spoken for without her being given a chance to speak for herself. the her being given a chance to speak for herself-— for herself. the speaker's office said it was _ for herself. the speaker's office said it was an _ for herself. the speaker's office said it was an issue _ for herself. the speaker's office said it was an issue of - for herself. the speaker's office said it was an issue of timing. l for herself. the speaker's office | said it was an issue of timing. do you accept that? i said it was an issue of timing. do you accept that?— said it was an issue of timing. do you accept that? i spoke to many colleagues _ you accept that? i spoke to many colleagues today _ you accept that? i spoke to many colleagues today and _ you accept that? i spoke to many colleagues today and i _ you accept that? i spoke to many colleagues today and i think - you accept that? i spoke to many| colleagues today and i think there was a general feeling that given the extraordinary nature of the situation and the comments that are alleged to have been made by frank hester, that this could have been a chance for her, because she was bobbing, for her to have an opportunity, especially when you're sitting in the chamber and seeing that others are there to speak about it and she is in the chamber herself. , , ., ~' . herself. yep. do you think that labour should _ herself. yep. do you think that labour should restore - herself. yep. do you think that labour should restore the - herself. yep. do you think that labour should restore the whip herself. yep. do you think that i labour should restore the whip to diane abbott? and if so, why? absolutely, she should have the wit restored. she is a trailblazer. —— she should have the whip restored. she is one of the strongest and most powerful advocates for the british black community. she is a hero of the activist struggle. all of this needs to be recognised. she has the most tremendous parliamentary career to date and she should have the whip restored. , , , , restored. there is due process althou . h restored. there is due process although some _ restored. there is due process although some might - restored. there is due process although some might suggest| restored. there is due process - although some might suggest that the due process going on for almost a year is a long period of due process. she was anti—semitism in the letter she wrote to the observer. she did apologise almost immediately. why does it take 11 months to come to a conclusion? i does it take 11 months to come to a conclusion?— conclusion? i can't explain that. but she apologised _ conclusion? i can't explain that. but she apologised almost - but she apologised almost immediately. this process that she expected to undergo is taking a very, very long time and the report that was undertaken talked about diane abbott's specific experiences of racism. there hasn't been any accountability about the treatment she has had in the party to date and she has had in the party to date and she is undergoing this process on top of that. i think many question what has happened since the report was published and whether there has been a following up and abbott around her treatment.- been a following up and abbott around her treatment. diane abbott has written a _ around her treatment. diane abbott has written a piece _ around her treatment. diane abbott has written a piece in _ around her treatment. diane abbott has written a piece in the _ has written a piece in the independent where she is critical around the accusations of racism but also says that the labour party has questions to answer and she has tweeted that racism is not the preserve of any one political party. you mentioned martin ford. he investigated racism in labour in 2022 and reported essentially that there was a hierarchy of racism in labour in which anti—semitism was taken more seriously than discrimination against black, asian and muslim members. does that chime with your own experiences? absolutely. with your own experiences? absolutely-— with your own experiences? - absolutely.- absolutely, it absolutely. does it? absolutely, it does. i absolutely. does it? absolutely, it does- i say — absolutely. does it? absolutely, it does. i say that _ absolutely. does it? absolutely, it does. i say that as _ absolutely. does it? absolutely, it does. i say that as someone - absolutely. does it? absolutely, it does. i say that as someone who l absolutely. does it? absolutely, it| does. i say that as someone who is absolutely. does it? absolutely, it. does. i say that as someone who is a woman of colour, a muslim woman, and i would say that i've been quite vocal about my own experiences and the experiences of other black and asian women in the party who have undergone similar experiences of racism and not felt adequately supported by my own party. what racism and not felt adequately supported by my own party. what does that tell you? — supported by my own party. what does that tell you? l — supported by my own party. what does that tell you? i think _ supported by my own party. what does that tell you? | think that _ supported by my own party. what does that tell you? i think that racism - that tell you? i think that racism and misogyny — that tell you? i think that racism and misogyny is _ that tell you? i think that racism and misogyny is prevalent - that tell you? i think that racism and misogyny is prevalent in - and misogyny is prevalent in society. it is part of my daily life. when you see someone like diane where the report suggests that frank hester had made comments such as that she should be shot, i think that's incredibly frightening and i think you expect and you want a level of institutional support from every institution possible but also from your own party. is, every institution possible but also from your own party.— every institution possible but also from your own party. a duty of care. absolutely- — from your own party. a duty of care. absolutely. diane _ from your own party. a duty of care. absolutely. diane abbott _ from your own party. a duty of care. absolutely. diane abbott herself- from your own party. a duty of care. | absolutely. diane abbott herself has said that frank— absolutely. diane abbott herself has said that frank hester's _ absolutely. diane abbott herself has said that frank hester's reported - said that frank hester's reported comments made herfearfor her safety. what effect do they have a new? �* . ~ safety. what effect do they have a new? ~ . ~ ., safety. what effect do they have a new? �* ., ~' ., ' . new? again, i think -- what effect do they have _ new? again, i think -- what effect do they have on _ new? again, i think -- what effect do they have on you? _ new? again, i think -- what effect do they have on you? there - new? again, i think -- what effect do they have on you? there was i new? again, i think -- what effect| do they have on you? there was no ambiguity in terms of those comments being racist and misogynistic. i think the prime minister's response has been unacceptable, and what message does that send to people from diverse and ethnic minority backgrounds in terms of engaging in public life and politics? i don't think it sends a positive signal at all. and i do worry, i worry about the way in which women of colour in particular can participate in public life. ., �* . life. you're young, you were elected in 2019? that's — life. you're young, you were elected in 2019? that's correct. _ life. you're young, you were elected in 2019? that's correct. can - life. you're young, you were elected in 2019? that's correct. can you - in 2019? that's correct. can you imagine- -- _ in 2019? that's correct. can you imagine- -- do — in 2019? that's correct. can you imagine... do you _ in 2019? that's correct. can you imagine... do you say _ in 2019? that's correct. can you imagine... do you say to - in 2019? that's correct. can you imagine... do you say to young| in 2019? that's correct. can you - imagine... do you say to young women coming up that it is worth going into politics? or would you not be able to make that recommendation? it is always hard to be the first. i looked up to people like diane because as the first black woman mp, as the longest serving black mp, you know, she came out and supported me when i stood for election, she helped to launch my campaign and that meant a lot to me because i can't imagine what her experiences are, going through yet another episode of racist and misogynistic attacks. it's difficult. i often still do encourage young people to come through in politics and engaged. i'm also mindful that i've a responsibility to warn them of how difficult and horrific it can be, daily. difficult and horrific it can be, dail . . ~' difficult and horrific it can be, dail . . ~ ,., difficult and horrific it can be, dail . . ~ ., difficult and horrific it can be, dail. . ~ ., , difficult and horrific it can be, dail . . ~ ., , ., daily. thank you for being on newsnight- _ there's been a big rise in egg freezing for non—medical reasons over the past decade in the uk, as women try to prolong their chances of having a baby in the future. but there's concern some women may be spending thousands of pounds on an invasive procedure which is not guaranteed to work. ethical questions are also being raised about what will happen to the thousands of frozen eggs which will not be used — will they be destroyed or, in some cases, potentially donated? it's a big decision which can have far—reaching consequences, as anna collinson reports. initially, i wasjust doing one injection a day and started the process there. you can start to see on my little tum tum. we're at the home of reality tv star vicky pattison, who last year paid thousands of pounds to freeze her eggs. when you have to stop the egg actually leaving your body. she shared her experiences with her millions of followers. i wanted to use my platform for good. i want women to take control of their own timeline, you know? when i froze my eggs, it was the first time in my whole adult life i've relaxed. i felt like i wasn't stressed. i wasn't rushing to find the right man. i wasn't rushing to get married. the fertility sector is a multi—million pound industry, and egg freezing in particular is booming. a woman's eggs are retrieved at a younger, more fertile stage of her life and then frozen and stored until she's ready to have a family. there's no certainty it'll lead to a baby. do you ever feel worried or concerned that you're encouraging people to take a procedure that might not work and cost a lot of money? obviously, like, itake the responsibility of having a platform my size very seriously. i think if women want to take this chance, if women don't feel ready, they should be able to take it, regardless of their financial situation. you need a hot minute to get your head around going from dancing on tables and kissing boys you shouldn't to being covered in poop and nappies and getting up at six, rather than going to bed at six. you know? and i think egg freezing gives women the chance to do that. gives women the chance to explore everything they want to be before they get to be the best mum they can. figures show that in 2011, there were nearly 400 egg freezing procedures in the uk. by 2021 there were more than 4,000 and that trend is set to continue. but research shows very few have come back to use them. eggs can be stored for up to 55 years. ultimately, they can be destroyed or potentially donated. so, what will vicky do if she conceives naturally? my eggs, yes, my eggs i will donate. can i ask why? i've got some friends who've really struggled to have kids. really struggled. and i've seen what it does to women. i've seen what it does to relationships. it's heartbreaking. soul destroying. it makes you question everything about yourself and your relationship and everything. and if i can do anything, like, even the tiniest little thing, i will do it, you know? so, yeah, whether that's egg donation or whether that's donating them to medical testing or whatever. if we aren't using them, i would like to see them go to a good home. egg or sperm donation has led to more than 70,000 births in the uk since 1991. but this altruistic act is wrought with ethical considerations, and donors must undergo counselling, a series of health tests, and provide informed consent. it's not a decision they let you make lightly. there's, like, online studies. they make you jump through hoops, and quite rightly so. it's a huge life decision. and the paperwork, the forms, the red tape, is bordering on obscene. we've spoken to women who've worked second jobs or used up their savings to cover the cost of egg freezing. i can't afford it, but i see it as an investment in my future. you just think, "well, it's money, isn't it?" i you can keep... you can keep making money, i but you can't keep making eggs. i don't think i expected, you know, the financial toll. honestly, it was probably the biggest hit. it was just trying to find the money from anywhere to make this happen. in response to the growing demand, some clinics now offer egg sharing programmes, where egg freezing is available at a much reduced cost, if the patient agrees to donate half of those retrieved. the ability to freeze eggs... the uk's fertility regulator says it's a decision which can have far—reaching consequences. what's really important is - the implications of this is talked through properly with a counsellor, ideally, as part of the treatment i pathway. because if the patient i returns in ten years' time to use her eggs and doesn't get i a pregnancy and doesn't have a baby, it's possible that her eggs that she donated did. i and donation in the uki now is non—anonymous. it means that a donor—conceived individual will be given _ identifiable information _ about their donor at the age of 18, and that has huge implications. a leading fertility charity has told us it has ethical concerns about egg sharing programmes, amidst the cost of living crisis. it's already seen some people on lower incomes donate some of their eggs so they can afford ivf procedures. the concern is something similar could now happen with egg freezing, which costs thousands of pounds. the director of king's fertility says it's paramount clinics fully inform patients, so they're able to make the right decision. there are a lot of very good programmes and as long as they're done in a non—exploitative way, so again, in a way that is not just because of money but because somebody actually genuinely wants to altruistically donate their eggs because they would have done it anyway, then that's a slightly different discussion. and like most things, the devil's in the detail. vicky doesn't know what the future holds and whether she'll go back to use her eggs or donate them. but she says freezing them has given her the breathing space to help her to decide when to start trying for a family. i was under no illusion that this was a guarantee. i know the rates are a little bit scary, but the alternative is just taking everything by chance. you've got to prepare yourself for heartbreak or disappointment. but then, like, nothing ventured, nothing gained. that's what i think, anyway. and you can watch a longer version of anna's film, egg freezing and me, it's available on bbc iplayer now. it's only halfway through the week and we've not yet had the government's updated extremism definition. but it's already been a big political one, with lee anderson defection, mr hester's reported racist comments and the way downing street handled that, plus the spotlight on labour's own investigation of diane abbott. in a moment, we'll speak to our top political panel — but first let's take a look at tomorrow's front pages. in the daily telegraph, michael gove to identify muslim groups as extremist, as we were discussing at the top of the programme. foreign state ownership of uk newspapers to be banned amid telegraph to give a bit. in the garb diane abbott accuses tories of playing the race card as the hester row intensifies and alarm as extremism definition is unveiled. they say that 21% of the tory party's election war chest comes from a frank hester. some good news at the top, extremist groups are facing censure to be named and shamed. let introduced our guest. sunder katwala, the director of british future, a group working on issues around integration and immigration. he signed a letter earlier this week along with three former conservative home secretaries warning against using extremism to score political points. the deputy opinion editor at the financial times, miranda green, who used to work for the liberal democrats is also here. as is camilla turner, chief political correspondent at the telegraph. welcome to all of you and thank you for giving up your evening. what do we think the mood in the conservative party is after the last few days and bearing in mind that budget less than a week ago? realize budget less than a week ago? really “ust a lot of budget less than a week ago? really just a lot of frustration _ budget less than a week ago? really just a lot of frustration is _ budget less than a week ago? really just a lot of frustration is what i just a lot of frustration is what i'm picking up, just around how they have handled notjust the recent issue with the question of racism and taking 24 hours to admit those remarks were indeed racist, but even before that, the defection of lee anderson, a huge feeling in the party that could have been handled a lot better. why did it get to the point he was stripped of the whip and then not offered a way back and then went over to reform and therefore created a huge problem? we then had a new situation where the common strategy of downing street seems to be all over the place with multiple different figures from the government changing their lines on whether this major tory donor's remarks were racist or not and it took can be bad luck to kinda call spade a spade and stand up and say it was racist —— kemi badenoch to call a spade a spade. it was racist -- kemi badenoch to call a spade a spade.— it was racist -- kemi badenoch to call a spade a spade. what's going on? is it call a spade a spade. what's going on? is it a — call a spade a spade. what's going on? is it a lack— call a spade a spade. what's going on? is it a lack of— call a spade a spade. what's going on? is it a lack of leadership? is i on? is it a lack of leadership? is it a communications issue, what is it? i don't understand. i it a communications issue, what is it? i don't understand.— it? i don't understand. ithink it is slowat— it? i don't understand. ithink it is slow at learning _ it? i don't understand. ithink it is slow at learning because i it? i don't understand. ithink it is slow at learning because you | it? i don't understand. i think it- is slow at learning because you have had the _ is slow at learning because you have had the same thing play out twice in terms _ had the same thing play out twice in terms of— had the same thing play out twice in terms of white were lee anderson's comments — terms of white were lee anderson's comments wrong and why are these comments _ comments wrong and why are these comments wrong and why are these comments wrong and why are these comments wrong and you don't want to say it _ comments wrong and you don't want to say it. sometimes they don't want to see the _ say it. sometimes they don't want to see the comments are racist because they get— see the comments are racist because they get to _ see the comments are racist because they get to ask if the person is racist — they get to ask if the person is racist and _ they get to ask if the person is racist and that incredibly impolite, to call— racist and that incredibly impolite, to call someone a racist if they have _ to call someone a racist if they have been— to call someone a racist if they have been racist but one thing that worries— have been racist but one thing that worries me — have been racist but one thing that worries me about this is it is great we have _ worries me about this is it is great we have a — worries me about this is it is great we have a much more depots conservative party, and downing street— conservative party, and downing street sometimes says that if the prime _ street sometimes says that if the prime minister is asian, it must prove _ prime minister is asian, it must prove there is no place for prejudice but it depends how you run your government. it was left to a tiny number of muslim conservatives to insist _ tiny number of muslim conservatives to insist that if lee anderson would not apologise, he should be suspended and it was left to the only black female minister in the cabinet _ only black female minister in the cabinet to— only black female minister in the cabinet to say that a saint you hate every _ cabinet to say that a saint you hate every black — cabinet to say that a saint you hate every black woman when you see a black— every black woman when you see a black woman on the television is racist~ _ black woman on the television is racist. suddenly the other conservatives can see it and downing street _ conservatives can see it and downing street can _ conservatives can see it and downing street can say it. that is wrong, to leave _ street can say it. that is wrong, to leave it _ street can say it. that is wrong, to leave it to — street can say it. that is wrong, to leave it to people from a particular background to stand up for the values — background to stand up for the values the party should share. what is auoin values the party should share. what is going on? — values the party should share. what is going on? it's _ values the party should share. what is going on? it's not _ values the party should share. what is going on? it's notjust _ values the party should share. what is going on? it's notjust who i values the party should share. what is going on? it's notjust who is i values the party should share. what is going on? it's notjust who is in l is going on? it's not “ust who is in our is going on? it's not “ust who is in your government i is going on? it's notjust who is in your government but _ is going on? it's notjust who is in your government but who - is going on? it's notjust who is in your government but who is i is going on? it's notjust who is in your government but who is in i is going on? it's notjust who is in i your government but who is in your party— your government but who is in your party and _ your government but who is in your party and on — your government but who is in your party and on the _ your government but who is in your party and on the fringes _ your government but who is in your party and on the fringes of - your government but who is in your party and on the fringes of it - your government but who is in your party and on the fringes of it and i party and on the fringes of it and who might — party and on the fringes of it and who might want _ party and on the fringes of it and who might want to _ party and on the fringes of it and who might want to vote - party and on the fringes of it and who might want to vote for i party and on the fringes of it and who might want to vote for you i who might want to vote for you because — who might want to vote for you because there _ who might want to vote for you because there is _ who might want to vote for you because there is also _ who might want to vote for you because there is also the - who might want to vote for youj because there is also the slight suspicion — because there is also the slight suspicion that— because there is also the slight suspicion that the _ because there is also the slight suspicion that the confusion i because there is also the slight i suspicion that the confusion over how to _ suspicion that the confusion over how to deal— suspicion that the confusion over how to deal with _ suspicion that the confusion over how to deal with lee _ suspicion that the confusion over how to deal with lee anderson i suspicion that the confusion over i how to deal with lee anderson was because _ how to deal with lee anderson was because, should _ how to deal with lee anderson was because, should lee _ how to deal with lee anderson was because, should lee anderson i how to deal with lee anderson was. because, should lee anderson leave the party— because, should lee anderson leave the party and — because, should lee anderson leave the party and be _ because, should lee anderson leave the party and be suspended - because, should lee anderson leave the party and be suspended for- because, should lee anderson leave the party and be suspended for tool the party and be suspended for too long. _ the party and be suspended for too long. or— the party and be suspended for too long. or now. — the party and be suspended for too long. or now. as— the party and be suspended for too long, or now, as he _ the party and be suspended for too long, or now, as he has _ the party and be suspended for too long, or now, as he has ended i the party and be suspended for too long, or now, as he has ended up. long, or now, as he has ended up doing _ long, or now, as he has ended up doing a _ long, or now, as he has ended up doing a defect— long, or now, as he has ended up doing a defect to _ long, or now, as he has ended up doing a defect to reform - long, or now, as he has ended up doing a defect to reform uk, i long, or now, as he has ended up doing a defect to reform uk, the| doing a defect to reform uk, the voters _ doing a defect to reform uk, the voters who— doing a defect to reform uk, the voters who share _ doing a defect to reform uk, the voters who share his _ doing a defect to reform uk, the voters who share his world - doing a defect to reform uk, the voters who share his world view i voters who share his world view might— voters who share his world view might go— voters who share his world view might go with _ voters who share his world view might go with him _ voters who share his world view might go with him and - voters who share his world view might go with him and that- voters who share his world view might go with him and that of. voters who share his world view i might go with him and that of course is something — might go with him and that of course is something the _ might go with him and that of course is something the tory— might go with him and that of course is something the tory party- might go with him and that of course is something the tory party fears. i is something the tory party fears. reform _ is something the tory party fears. reform uk — is something the tory party fears. reform uk does _ is something the tory party fears. reform uk does not _ is something the tory party fears. reform uk does not need - is something the tory party fears. reform uk does not need to- is something the tory party fears. reform uk does not need to win i is something the tory party fears. i reform uk does not need to win seats in the _ reform uk does not need to win seats in the commons — reform uk does not need to win seats in the commons to _ reform uk does not need to win seats in the commons to be _ reform uk does not need to win seats in the commons to be very _ in the commons to be very destructive _ in the commons to be very destructive to _ in the commons to be very destructive to the - in the commons to be very destructive to the tory i in the commons to be very. destructive to the tory party in the commons to be very - destructive to the tory party result of the _ destructive to the tory party result of the coming _ destructive to the tory party result of the coming general— destructive to the tory party result of the coming general election i destructive to the tory party result of the coming general election 50. destructive to the tory party result of the coming general election sol think— of the coming general election sol think that — of the coming general election sol think that was _ of the coming general election sol think that was the _ of the coming general election sol think that was the reason - of the coming general election sol think that was the reason for i of the coming general election sol think that was the reason for the l think that was the reason for the confusion — think that was the reason for the confusion about— think that was the reason for the confusion about what _ think that was the reason for the confusion about what to - think that was the reason for the confusion about what to do i think that was the reason for the confusion about what to do withl think that was the reason for the i confusion about what to do with lee anderson _ confusion about what to do with lee anderson as — confusion about what to do with lee anderson as we _ confusion about what to do with lee anderson. as we said, _ confusion about what to do with lee anderson. as we said, with - confusion about what to do with lee anderson. as we said, with the - anderson. as we said, with the second — anderson. as we said, with the second example _ anderson. as we said, with the second example with _ anderson. as we said, with the second example with frank- anderson. as we said, with the - second example with frank hester, you have _ second example with frank hester, you have to— second example with frank hester, you have to ask_ second example with frank hester, you have to ask questions - second example with frank hester, you have to ask questions about. second example with frank hester, . you have to ask questions about what their instincts — you have to ask questions about what their instincts are _ you have to ask questions about what their instincts are when _ you have to ask questions about what their instincts are when they're - their instincts are when they're dealing — their instincts are when they're dealing with _ their instincts are when they're dealing with this _ their instincts are when they're dealing with this sort _ their instincts are when they're dealing with this sort of- their instincts are when they're dealing with this sort of racismi dealing with this sort of racism because — dealing with this sort of racism because that _ dealing with this sort of racism because that is _ dealing with this sort of racism because that is what _ dealing with this sort of racism because that is what it. - dealing with this sort of racism because that is what it. i- dealing with this sort of racism because that is what it. i think| because that is what it. i think there — because that is what it. i think there is— because that is what it. i think there is a _ because that is what it. i think there is a real— because that is what it. i think there is a real problem - because that is what it. i think there is a real problem in - because that is what it. i think. there is a real problem in politics with focusing _ there is a real problem in politics with focusing on _ there is a real problem in politics with focusing on how— there is a real problem in politics with focusing on how is _ there is a real problem in politics with focusing on how is this - there is a real problem in politics| with focusing on how is this being handled. — with focusing on how is this being handled, really— with focusing on how is this being handled, really it _ with focusing on how is this being handled, really it with _ with focusing on how is this being handled, really it with a - with focusing on how is this being i handled, really it with a competent teader. _ handled, really it with a competent teader. they— handled, really it with a competent leader, they should _ handled, really it with a competent leader, they should know - handled, really it with a competent leader, they should know the - handled, really it with a competent i leader, they should know the answer to this _ leader, they should know the answer to this question — leader, they should know the answer to this question and _ leader, they should know the answer to this question and they _ leader, they should know the answer to this question and they should - leader, they should know the answer to this question and they should be l to this question and they should be front and _ to this question and they should be front and centre _ to this question and they should be front and centre in _ to this question and they should be front and centre in responding - to this question and they should be| front and centre in responding beth munro _ front and centre in responding beth munro confident— front and centre in responding beth munro confident leader— front and centre in responding beth munro confident leader ponder- front and centre in responding beth munro confident leader ponder if. munro confident leader ponder if downing — munro confident leader ponder if downing street _ munro confident leader ponder if downing street had, _ munro confident leader ponder if downing street had, i— munro confident leader ponder if downing street had, i said - munro confident leader ponder if downing street had, i said whati munro confident leader ponder if- downing street had, i said what kemi badenoch _ downing street had, i said what kemi badenoch said. — downing street had, i said what kemi badenoch said, you _ downing street had, i said what kemi badenoch said, you would _ downing street had, i said what kemi badenoch said, you would have - badenoch said, you would have answered — badenoch said, you would have answered a _ badenoch said, you would have answered a whole _ badenoch said, you would have answered a whole load - badenoch said, you would have answered a whole load of - badenoch said, you would have - answered a whole load of questions in one _ answered a whole load of questions in one go— answered a whole load of questions in one go -- — answered a whole load of questions in one go -- and— answered a whole load of questions in one go —— and said _ answered a whole load of questions in one go —— and said what - answered a whole load of questions in one go —— and said what kemi . in one go —— and said what kemi badenoch — in one go —— and said what kemi badenoch said. _ in one go —— and said what kemi badenoch said. find _ in one go -- and said what kemi badenoch said.— in one go -- and said what kemi badenoch said. and we might not be discussin: badenoch said. and we might not be discussing it- — badenoch said. and we might not be discussing it. it _ badenoch said. and we might not be discussing it. it was _ badenoch said. and we might not be discussing it. it was such _ badenoch said. and we might not be discussing it. it was such a _ discussing it. it was such a dramatic — discussing it. it was such a dramatic outburst, - discussing it. it was such a | dramatic outburst, though, discussing it. it was such a - dramatic outburst, though, calling for an— dramatic outburst, though, calling for an mp — dramatic outburst, though, calling for an mp to— dramatic outburst, though, calling foran mp to tre— dramatic outburst, though, calling for an mp to be shot _ dramatic outburst, though, calling for an mp to be shot is _ dramatic outburst, though, calling for an mp to be shot is very- dramatic outburst, though, calling . for an mp to be shot is very extreme language _ for an mp to be shot is very extreme language in— for an mp to be shot is very extreme language in anybody's _ for an mp to be shot is very extreme language in anybody's definition. - language in anybody's definition. 100%~ _ language in anybody's definition. 10096. ., language in anybody's definition. 100%. ., ., .,, language in anybody's definition. 100%. ., ., ., language in anybody's definition. 100%. ., ., ~, language in anybody's definition. 10096. ., ., ~, , 10096. two assassinations of mps very recentl , 10096. two assassinations of mps very recently. it's — 10096. two assassinations of mps very recently. it's a — 10096. two assassinations of mps very recently, it's a very _ 10096. two assassinations of mps very recently, it's a very serious _ 10096. two assassinations of mps very recently, it's a very serious thing - recently, it's a very serious thing to say _ recently, it's a very serious thing to say it— recently, it's a very serious thing to sa . . . recently, it's a very serious thing tosa. . , ., . recently, it's a very serious thing tosa. ., . ., to say. it has also shone a light on the fact that _ to say. it has also shone a light on the fact that diane _ to say. it has also shone a light on the fact that diane abbott - to say. it has also shone a light on the fact that diane abbott remains suspended from the labour party and questions are asked about how this investigation into her alleged anti—semitism, the recent she was suspended, how is that being handled, and a number of her colleagues, we have tonight, they want the whip restored because they say she apologised. we have that criticism of the way labour have dealt with this.— dealt with this. that's right, i think diane _ dealt with this. that's right, i think diane abbott, - dealt with this. that's right, i think diane abbott, she - dealt with this. that's right, i think diane abbott, she has i dealt with this. that's right, i i think diane abbott, she has not dealt with this. that's right, i - think diane abbott, she has not only criticised racism within the conservative party but also a big critic of the way labour has handled things and racism within labour so she clearly has something to say about racism across the political spectrum but as you said, this whole episode has shone a light on the fact that she has been suspended from the party for over a year now. given she has apologised, the big question for keir starmer, should he let her back in or will she go on being suspended for ever? she wrote the most ridiculous _ being suspended for ever? she wrote the most ridiculous letter— being suspended for ever? she wrote the most ridiculous letter in - being suspended for ever? she wrote the most ridiculous letter in her- the most ridiculous letter in her name _ the most ridiculous letter in her name saying something like jewish people _ name saying something like jewish people had never actually experienced the kind of racism black people _ experienced the kind of racism black people did, — experienced the kind of racism black people did, apologised for it within an hour, _ people did, apologised for it within an hour, i— people did, apologised for it within an hour, i don't know how her office and an hour, idon't know how her office and sent— an hour, i don't know how her office and sent it. — an hour, i don't know how her office and sent it, but she apologised quickly— and sent it, but she apologised quickly with the return to other people. — quickly with the return to other people, rework was suspended and had the whip _ people, rework was suspended and had the whip returned, —— rupa huq. there _ the whip returned, —— rupa huq. there has— the whip returned, —— rupa huq. there has to _ the whip returned, —— rupa huq. there has to be a process as to what is going _ there has to be a process as to what is going on — there has to be a process as to what is going on. the star might group might— is going on. the star might group might not— is going on. the star might group might not like people in the other faction _ might not like people in the other faction of— might not like people in the other faction of the party but the whole iesson _ faction of the party but the whole lesson of— faction of the party but the whole lesson of labour's anti—semitism is you're _ lesson of labour's anti—semitism is you're not— lesson of labour's anti—semitism is you're not meant to be playing factionat — you're not meant to be playing factional and party prodigy politics. if they can get clarity about — politics. if they can get clarity about what she now thinks and will say or— about what she now thinks and will say or not. — about what she now thinks and will say or not. i— about what she now thinks and will say or not, i think her historic rote _ say or not, i think her historic rote as— say or not, i think her historic rote as the _ say or not, i think her historic role as the first, the group of four in 1987, _ role as the first, the group of four in 1987, like — role as the first, the group of four in 1987, like the prime minister, i was in1987, like the prime minister, i was born— in1987, like the prime minister, i was born in— in 1987, like the prime minister, i was born in a country where there were _ was born in a country where there were no— was born in a country where there were no black or asian mps at all. that progress in public life, i think— that progress in public life, i think the _ that progress in public life, i think the labour party should be taking _ think the labour party should be taking seriously, giving a clear answer~ — taking seriously, giving a clear answer. �* , . y ., taking seriously, giving a clear answer. 2 . answer. it's so true, and your point earlier was — answer. it's so true, and your point earlier was right, _ answer. it's so true, and your point earlier was right, justice _ answer. it's so true, and your point earlier was right, justice delayed i earlier was right, justice delayed isjustice — earlier was right, justice delayed isjustice denied _ earlier was right, justice delayed isjustice denied and _ earlier was right, justice delayed isjustice denied and why- earlier was right, justice delayed isjustice denied and why has - earlier was right, justice delayed| isjustice denied and why has this investigation _ isjustice denied and why has this investigation gone _ isjustice denied and why has this investigation gone on _ isjustice denied and why has this investigation gone on for - isjustice denied and why has this investigation gone on for so - is justice denied and why has thisl investigation gone on for so long? it investigation gone on for so long? it has _ investigation gone on for so long? it has to— investigation gone on for so long? it has to be — investigation gone on for so long? it has to be partly— investigation gone on for so long? it has to be partly to _ investigation gone on for so long? it has to be partly to do _ investigation gone on for so long? it has to be partly to do with - investigation gone on for so long? it has to be partly to do with the l it has to be partly to do with the fact that — it has to be partly to do with the fact that keir— it has to be partly to do with the fact that keir starmer— it has to be partly to do with the fact that keir starmer thinks - it has to be partly to do with the fact that keir starmer thinks it l it has to be partly to do with the| fact that keir starmer thinks it is so important _ fact that keir starmer thinks it is so important to _ fact that keir starmer thinks it is so important to make _ fact that keir starmer thinks it is so important to make this- fact that keir starmer thinks it is- so important to make this argument that came _ so important to make this argument that came up — so important to make this argument that came up in— so important to make this argument that came up in pmqs, _ so important to make this argument that came up in pmqs, i— so important to make this argument that came up in pmqs, i have - so important to make this argument . that came up in pmqs, i have changed my that came up in pmqs, i have changed rny party, _ that came up in pmqs, i have changed rny party. which— that came up in pmqs, i have changed my party, which essentially _ that came up in pmqs, i have changed my party, which essentially means - my party, which essentially means jeremy— my party, which essentially means jeremy corbyn _ my party, which essentially means jeremy corbyn is _ my party, which essentially means jeremy corbyn is not _ my party, which essentially means jeremy corbyn is not even - my party, which essentially means jeremy corbyn is not even now- my party, which essentially means jeremy corbyn is not even now a l jeremy corbyn is not even now a labour— jeremy corbyn is not even now a labour mp— jeremy corbyn is not even now a labour mp and _ jeremy corbyn is not even now a labour mp and wanted - jeremy corbyn is not even now a labour mp and wanted to - jeremy corbyn is not even now a i labour mp and wanted to distance himself— labour mp and wanted to distance himself as — labour mp and wanted to distance himself as much _ labour mp and wanted to distance himself as much as _ labour mp and wanted to distance himself as much as possible... - himself as much as possible... remember— himself as much as possible... remember it _ himself as much as possible... remember it took _ himself as much as possible... remember it took labour- himself as much as possible... remember it took labour at i himself as much as possible... i remember it took labour at 24, himself as much as possible... - remember it took labour at 24, 48 hours before they decided they would not support their candidate in rochdale after the conspiracy theories around anti—semitism that he had spoken about in a labour party meeting. find he had spoken about in a labour party meeting-— he had spoken about in a labour party meeting. he had spoken about in a labour pa meetinu. . , . party meeting. and those delays are a disaster, party meeting. and those delays are a disaster. as _ party meeting. and those delays are a disaster, as we _ party meeting. and those delays are a disaster, as we have _ party meeting. and those delays are a disaster, as we have been - party meeting. and those delays are a disaster, as we have been saying. | let me talk about the new definition of extremism which will be published by the communities secretary tomorrow. you have signed a letter earlier this week, sunder, where you pleaded really that extremism should not be used to score political points so what is your fear? it not be used to score political points so what is your fear? it was a letter signed _ points so what is your fear? it was a letter signed by _ points so what is your fear? it was a letter signed by priti _ points so what is your fear? it was a letter signed by priti patel- points so what is your fear? it was a letter signed by priti patel as - a letter signed by priti patel as well, _ a letter signed by priti patel as well, people like louise casey, an issue _ well, people like louise casey, an issue was— well, people like louise casey, an issue was that we will have either the same — issue was that we will have either the same government or another government more likely shortly after christmas, _ government more likely shortly after christmas, so

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