specific stand or push on testing in care homes, testing _ specific stand or push on testing in care homes, testing hospital- care homes, testing hospital admissions _ care homes, testing hospital admissions and _ care homes, testing hospital admissions and clinical- care homes, testing hospital. admissions and clinical patients care homes, testing hospital- admissions and clinical patients at risk, _ admissions and clinical patients at risk, we _ admissions and clinical patients at risk, we need _ admissions and clinical patients at risk, we need to— admissions and clinical patients at risk, we need to put— admissions and clinical patients at risk, we need to put on— admissions and clinical patients at risk, we need to put on testing . risk, we need to put on testing people — risk, we need to put on testing people irr— risk, we need to put on testing people in care, _ risk, we need to put on testing people in care, or— risk, we need to put on testing people in care, or at— risk, we need to put on testing people in care, or at least- risk, we need to put on testing - people in care, or at least we have some _ people in care, or at least we have some focused _ people in care, or at least we have some focused effort _ people in care, or at least we have some focused effort on _ people in care, or at least we have some focused effort on testing - some focused effort on testing people — some focused effort on testing people irr— some focused effort on testing people in care _ some focused effort on testing people in care i— some focused effort on testing people in care. i know- some focused effort on testing people in care. i know it- some focused effort on testing people in care. i know it is- some focused effort on testing - people in care. i know it is complex and the _ people in care. i know it is complex and the people _ people in care. i know it is complex and the people are _ people in care. i know it is complex and the people are dying _ people in care. i know it is complex and the people are dying in- people in care. i know it is complex and the people are dying in care - and the people are dying in care homes — and the people are dying in care homes are — and the people are dying in care homes are often _ and the people are dying in care homes are often people - and the people are dying in care homes are often people who - and the people are dying in care l homes are often people who were and the people are dying in care - homes are often people who were near the end _ homes are often people who were near the end regardless, _ homes are often people who were near the end regardless, but— homes are often people who were near the end regardless, but i— homes are often people who were near the end regardless, but i worry, - homes are often people who were near the end regardless, but i worry, if- the end regardless, but i worry, if a load _ the end regardless, but i worry, if a load of— the end regardless, but i worry, if a load of people _ the end regardless, but i worry, if a load of people in— the end regardless, but i worry, if a load of people in care _ the end regardless, but i worry, if a load of people in care start- a load of people in care start dying. — a load of people in care start dyihg, there _ a load of people in care start dying, there will— a load of people in care start dying, there will be - a load of people in care start dying, there will be front - a load of people in care start. dying, there will be front pages demahd — dying, there will be front pages demand inquiry— dying, there will be front pages demand inquiry won't _ dying, there will be front pages demand inquiry won't testing. dying, there will be front pages - demand inquiry won't testing people in care _ demand inquiry won't testing people in care homes — demand inquiry won't testing people in care homes. do _ demand inquiry won't testing people in care homes. do we _ demand inquiry won't testing people in care homes. do we need - demand inquiry won't testing people in care homes. do we need to- demand inquiry won't testing people in care homes. do we need to get. in care homes. do we need to get ahead _ in care homes. do we need to get ahead of— in care homes. do we need to get ahead of this _ in care homes. do we need to get ahead of this now? _ in care homes. do we need to get ahead of this now? you _ in care homes. do we need to get ahead of this now? you say- in care homes. do we need to get ahead of this now? you say lets. in care homes. do we need to get. ahead of this now? you say lets have rapid _ ahead of this now? you say lets have rapid advice — ahead of this now? you say lets have rapid advice on— ahead of this now? you say lets have rapid advice on this _ ahead of this now? you say lets have rapid advice on this time _ ahead of this now? you say lets have rapid advice on this time together- rapid advice on this time together all the _ rapid advice on this time together all the angles _ rapid advice on this time together all the angles. of— rapid advice on this time together all the angles. of that _ rapid advice on this time together all the angles. of that message . rapid advice on this time together| all the angles. of that message of the all the angles. of that message of the 4th— all the angles. of that message of the 4th of— all the angles. of that message of the 4th of april _ all the angles. of that message of the 4th of april 2020, _ all the angles. of that message of the 4th of april 2020, when - all the angles. of that message of. the 4th of april 2020, when replying you do— the 4th of april 2020, when replying you do not— the 4th of april 2020, when replying you do not correct _ the 4th of april 2020, when replying you do not correct the _ the 4th of april 2020, when replying | you do not correct the misconception of your— you do not correct the misconception of your adviser— you do not correct the misconception of your adviser that— you do not correct the misconception of your adviser that those _ you do not correct the misconception of your adviser that those in - you do not correct the misconception of your adviser that those in care - of your adviser that those in care homes _ of your adviser that those in care homes include _ of your adviser that those in care homes include not— of your adviser that those in care homes include notjust _ of your adviser that those in care homes include not just those - of your adviser that those in care | homes include notjust those who were _ homes include notjust those who were near— homes include notjust those who were near the _ homes include notjust those who were near the end _ homes include notjust those who were near the end regardless, . homes include notjust those who| were near the end regardless, but also disabled _ were near the end regardless, but also disabled people _ were near the end regardless, but also disabled people who - were near the end regardless, but also disabled people who were - were near the end regardless, but| also disabled people who were not near also disabled people who were not hear the _ also disabled people who were not hearthe ehd. _ also disabled people who were not near the end, but— also disabled people who were not near the end, but living _ also disabled people who were not near the end, but living in - near the end, but living in long-term _ near the end, but living in long—term residential- nearthe end, but living in| long—term residential care near the end, but living in i long—term residential care or settihgs _ long—term residential care or settings from _ long—term residential care or settings from a _ long—term residential care or settings from a young - long—term residential care or settings from a young age. . long—term residential care or- settings from a young age. would you have that _ settings from a young age. would you have that reality— settings from a young age. would you have that reality in _ settings from a young age. would you have that reality in the _ settings from a young age. would you have that reality in the forefront - have that reality in the forefront of your— have that reality in the forefront of your mind _ have that reality in the forefront of your mind at _ have that reality in the forefront of your mind at the _ have that reality in the forefront of your mind at the time - have that reality in the forefront of your mind at the time and - have that reality in the forefrontl of your mind at the time and why have that reality in the forefront - of your mind at the time and why not correct _ of your mind at the time and why not correct advisor— of your mind at the time and why not correct advisor of— of your mind at the time and why not correct advisor of that _ of your mind at the time and why not correct advisor of that serious - correct advisor of that serious misconception? _ correct advisor of that serious misconception? [— correct advisor of that serious misconception?— correct advisor of that serious misconception? i absolutely have that at the front _ misconception? i absolutely have that at the front of _ misconception? i absolutely have that at the front of my _ misconception? i absolutely have that at the front of my mind - misconception? i absolutely have that at the front of my mind and l that at the front of my mind and before the pandemic had done significant work in trying to improve outcomes for those who were in adult social care, of working age, with disabilities, including trying to get more support in the community for discharge where that was appropriate. i had done work on this and i of course knew that. the response that i gave, at a time when i was exceptionally busy, the fact that it doesn't state all of that, in no way implies that that wasn't what i was thinking. asking for advice as a device i would use typically when i was brought a complex issue. i cared about it, wanted to make progress on it, but i thought that it was best not done over whatsapp and as you can see, two messages down, leila was my private secretary and she is on the group and she says our commission now. sheep that was the system, that is a typical exchange, a complex issueis is a typical exchange, a complex issue is brought by a political adviser, and jamie was one of the most exceptional public servants and his advice to me was excellent. i respected it. however he is coming at this from a comms angle, in terms of what the newspapers might say. i was absolutely determined on this, as on so many other issues, to be guided by the science, which is why i would have wanted formal advice. after all, i would have wanted formal advice. afterall, i i would have wanted formal advice. after all, i can tell you now, that the response, the reason that we did not at that point have as much testing in care homes as many would have wanted, was that we didn't have enough tests and the clinical privatisation if few got tests in what order was absolutely something that i wouldn't have interfered with, i would have taken that as red. . ., ., with, i would have taken that as red. ., ., ., ., red. can we move on to the emerging data from testing, _ red. can we move on to the emerging data from testing, in relation - red. can we move on to the emerging data from testing, in relation to - data from testing, in relation to disabled — data from testing, in relation to disabled people. _ data from testing, in relation to disabled people. can— data from testing, in relation to disabled people. can i- data from testing, in relation to disabled people. can i really- data from testing, in relation to i disabled people. can i really then, because _ disabled people. can i really then, because of— disabled people. can i really then, because of the _ disabled people. can i really then, because of the chair's _ disabled people. can i really then, l because of the chair's intervention, crunch— because of the chair's intervention, cruhch it _ because of the chair's intervention, cruhch it dowrr~ _ because of the chair's intervention, crunch it down. during _ because of the chair's intervention, crunch it down. during the - because of the chair's intervention, crunch it down. during the course l because of the chair's intervention, | crunch it down. during the course of the summer. — crunch it down. during the course of the summer. very— crunch it down. during the course of the summer, very significant - the summer, very significant statistics— the summer, very significant statistics emerged _ the summer, very significant statistics emerged that - the summer, very significant. statistics emerged that amount the summer, very significant - statistics emerged that amount to 59% of— statistics emerged that amount to 59% of those _ statistics emerged that amount to 59% of those who _ statistics emerged that amount to 59% of those who have _ statistics emerged that amount to 59% of those who have died - statistics emerged that amount to 59% of those who have died from i 59% of those who have died from covid _ 59% of those who have died from covid between _ 59% of those who have died from covid between march _ 59% of those who have died from covid between march and - 59% of those who have died from covid between march and july, i 59% of those who have died from - covid between march and july, where disabled _ covid between march and july, where disabled people _ covid between march and july, where disabled people. do _ covid between march and july, where disabled people. do recall— covid between march and july, where disabled people. do recall becomingl disabled people. do recall becoming aware _ disabled people. do recall becoming aware of— disabled people. do recall becoming aware of those — disabled people. do recall becoming aware of those very— disabled people. do recall becoming aware of those very significant - aware of those very significant figures, — aware of those very significant figures, and _ aware of those very significant figures, and if— aware of those very significant figures, and if so, _ aware of those very significant figures, and if so, roughly, . aware of those very significanti figures, and if so, roughly, we won't — figures, and if so, roughly, we won't hold _ figures, and if so, roughly, we won't hold to _ figures, and if so, roughly, we won't hold to exact _ figures, and if so, roughly, we won't hold to exact data, - figures, and if so, roughly, we won't hold to exact data, but i won't hold to exact data, but roughly— won't hold to exact data, but roughly wheh _ won't hold to exact data, but roughly when did _ won't hold to exact data, but roughly when did you - won't hold to exact data, but| roughly when did you become won't hold to exact data, but - roughly when did you become aware of those kinds _ roughly when did you become aware of those kinds of— roughly when did you become aware of those kinds of figures? _ roughly when did you become aware of those kinds of figures? of— roughly when did you become aware of those kinds of figures?— those kinds of figures? of the top of my head _ those kinds of figures? of the top of my head i _ those kinds of figures? of the top of my head i don't _ those kinds of figures? of the top of my head i don't know. - those kinds of figures? of the top of my head i don't know. we - those kinds of figures? of the top of my head i don't know. we can. of my head i don't know. we can discover it in the paperwork if necessary. given this point, what i will call the bad and review, commissioned injune, as you put it in your statement, would improve understanding of disparity is to inform decision making. why, as far as you were concerned, did the review not look at disabled people, is one of that is the important match of ethnic minorities? my initial understanding of the commission to public health england, which ultimately became the badenoch review, was to look at disparities i would take that to involve all protected characteristics and that is my... that was my approach to it. of course there is a complication here because of co—morbidity, not least because of the strongest correlation with risk from covid was of course age... ayes in view of time, we have had a lot of evidence, what was your understanding about why it focused as it did on ethnic minorities are not disabled people. did you have any understanding about why it focused... mr; any understanding about why it focused- - -— any understanding about why it focused... g , ., , ., focused... my understanding, before it was passed — focused... my understanding, before it was passed to _ focused... my understanding, before it was passed to kemi _ focused... my understanding, before it was passed to kemi badenoch, - focused... my understanding, before| it was passed to kemi badenoch, was that it was a question of disparities as a whole was blue sorry we have got so much to get through and i know these are important issues. irate through and i know these are important issues.— through and i know these are important issues. through and i know these are imortant issues. ~ ., ., ., important issues. we have to get on, i have so important issues. we have to get on, i have so many _ important issues. we have to get on, i have so many to _ important issues. we have to get on, i have so many to get _ important issues. we have to get on, i have so many to get through. - important issues. we have to get on, i have so many to get through. mr. i have so many to get through. mr thomas _ i have so many to get through. mr thomas. , ., ., i have so many to get through. mr thomas-— l i thomas. sorry about the layout. i will answer _ thomas. sorry about the layout. i will answer to _ thomas. sorry about the layout. i will answer to the _ thomas. sorry about the layout. i will answer to the chair. - thomas. sorry about the layout. i will answer to the chair. i - will answer to the chair. i represent ethnic minority organisations, _ represent ethnic minority organisations, the - represent ethnic minority organisations, the very . represent ethnic minority. organisations, the very front represent ethnic minority- organisations, the very front line workers — organisations, the very front line workers that _ organisations, the very front line workers that the _ organisations, the very front line workers that the public— organisations, the very front line workers that the public was - organisations, the very front line . workers that the public was clapping every— workers that the public was clapping every thursday — workers that the public was clapping every thursday evening, _ workers that the public was clapping every thursday evening, at - workers that the public was clapping every thursday evening, at about. every thursday evening, at about 8pm. _ every thursday evening, at about 8pm, as — every thursday evening, at about 8pm, as im _ every thursday evening, at about 8pm, as im sure _ every thursday evening, at about 8pm, as i'm sure you _ every thursday evening, at abouti 8pm, as i'm sure you remember. every thursday evening, at about. 8pm, as i'm sure you remember. i only— 8pm, as i'm sure you remember. i only have _ 8pm, as i'm sure you remember. i only have a— 8pm, as i'm sure you remember. i only have a small— 8pm, as i'm sure you remember. i only have a small handful - 8pm, as i'm sure you remember. i only have a small handful of - only have a small handful of questions _ only have a small handful of questions i _ only have a small handful of questions i wish _ only have a small handful of questions i wish to - only have a small handful of questions i wish to explore. only have a small handful of - questions i wish to explore with you _ questions i wish to explore with you these _ questions i wish to explore with you. these can— questions i wish to explore with you. these can be _ questions i wish to explore with you. these can be divided - questions i wish to explore with you. these can be divided into. questions i wish to explore with i you. these can be divided into two topics _ you. these can be divided into two topics let— you. these can be divided into two topics let me _ you. these can be divided into two topics. let me turn _ you. these can be divided into two topics. let me turn to _ you. these can be divided into two topics. let me turn to the - you. these can be divided into two topics. let me turn to the first - topics. let me turn to the first topic — topics. let me turn to the first topic this— topics. let me turn to the first topic. this morning _ topics. let me turn to the first topic. this morning you - topics. let me turn to the first topic. this morning you said, i topics. let me turn to the first l topic. this morning you said, mr hancock— topic. this morning you said, mr hancock that, _ topic. this morning you said, mr hancock that, quote, _ topic. this morning you said, mr hancock that, quote, i— topic. this morning you said, mr hancock that, quote, i was - hancock that, quote, i was particularly _ hancock that, quote, i was particularly struck- hancock that, quote, i was particularly struck by - hancock that, quote, i was particularly struck by the l hancock that, quote, i was - particularly struck by the death of the first— particularly struck by the death of the first four _ particularly struck by the death of the first four nhs _ particularly struck by the death of the first four nhs doctors, - particularly struck by the death of the first four nhs doctors, threei particularly struck by the death of. the first four nhs doctors, three of whom _ the first four nhs doctors, three of whom were — the first four nhs doctors, three of whom were from _ the first four nhs doctors, three of whom were from an _ the first four nhs doctors, three of whom were from an ethnic- the first four nhs doctors, three of whom were from an ethnic priority| whom were from an ethnic priority background — whom were from an ethnic priority background i_ whom were from an ethnic priority background. i was _ whom were from an ethnic priority background. i was acutely - whom were from an ethnic priority background. i was acutely aware l whom were from an ethnic priority| background. i was acutely aware of the disproportionate _ background. i was acutely aware of the disproportionate impact- background. i was acutely aware of the disproportionate impact on- background. i was acutely aware of l the disproportionate impact on those from an— the disproportionate impact on those from an ethnic— the disproportionate impact on those from an ethnic minority _ the disproportionate impact on those from an ethnic minority background, | from an ethnic minority background, especially— from an ethnic minority background, especially among _ from an ethnic minority background, especially among the _ from an ethnic minority background, especially among the wider- from an ethnic minority background, especially among the wider nhs - especially among the wider nhs workforce — especially among the wider nhs workforce. etc. _ especially among the wider nhs workforce. etc. question. - especially among the wider nhsi workforce. etc. question. please help me — workforce. etc. question. please help me with— workforce. etc. question. please help me with this. _ workforce. etc. question. please help me with this. what - workforce. etc. question. please help me with this. what steps, l workforce. etc. question. please help me with this. what steps, if any. _ help me with this. what steps, if any, did — help me with this. what steps, if any. did you _ help me with this. what steps, if any, did you take— help me with this. what steps, if any, did you take to _ help me with this. what steps, if any, did you take to engage - help me with this. what steps, if any, did you take to engage withi help me with this. what steps, if- any, did you take to engage with the black. _ any, did you take to engage with the black. asian. — any, did you take to engage with the black, asian, ethnic— any, did you take to engage with the black, asian, ethnic minority- black, asian, ethnic minority leaders — black, asian, ethnic minority leaders in health— black, asian, ethnic minority leaders in health care - black, asian, ethnic minority leaders in health care abouti black, asian, ethnic minority. leaders in health care about the disproportionate _ leaders in health care about the disproportionate deaths- leaders in health care about the disproportionate deaths within i leaders in health care about the - disproportionate deaths within their ranks _ disproportionate deaths within their ranks during — disproportionate deaths within their ranks during this _ disproportionate deaths within their ranks during this early _ disproportionate deaths within their ranks during this early period? - disproportionate deaths within their ranks during this early period? [- ranks during this early period? engaged with the nhs ranks during this early period?" engaged with the nhs leadership ranks during this early period?_ engaged with the nhs leadership on this question, including people from all ethnicities. i was engaged heavily in issues around, firstly, the evident higher risk of those from ethnic minority backgrounds to the disease, but also the more long—standing issue of racism within the nhs, which came to light in a report that had been... that had begun before the pandemic. this is an issue i was heavily involved in. the nhs can't work without its amazing diverse workforce and it was something that i was concerned about well before the pandemic. the secretary of — well before the pandemic. the secretary of state, or former secretary _ secretary of state, or former secretary of _ secretary of state, or former secretary of state, _ secretary of state, or former secretary of state, let - secretary of state, or former secretary of state, let me i secretary of state, or formerl secretary of state, let me put secretary of state, or former - secretary of state, let me put this to you _ secretary of state, let me put this to you clearly _ secretary of state, let me put this to you clearly and _ secretary of state, let me put this to you clearly and bluntly, - secretary of state, let me put this to you clearly and bluntly, did - secretary of state, let me put this to you clearly and bluntly, did you i to you clearly and bluntly, did you or did _ to you clearly and bluntly, did you or did you — to you clearly and bluntly, did you or did you not. _ to you clearly and bluntly, did you or did you not, at— to you clearly and bluntly, did you or did you not, at this _ to you clearly and bluntly, did you or did you not, at this time, - or did you not, at this time, specifically— or did you not, at this time, specifically engage - or did you not, at this time, specifically engage with - or did you not, at this time, specifically engage with the| specifically engage with the leadership— specifically engage with the leadership of— specifically engage with the leadership of any— specifically engage with the leadership of any ethnic- specifically engage with the - leadership of any ethnic minority health— leadership of any ethnic minority health care — leadership of any ethnic minority health care body, _ leadership of any ethnic minority health care body, that _ leadership of any ethnic minority health care body, that is- leadership of any ethnic minority health care body, that is the - health care body, that is the question? _ health care body, that is the question?— health care body, that is the cuestion? ., health care body, that is the cuestion? . . question? i... i engaged with ethnic minority leaders _ question? i... i engaged with ethnic minority leaders across _ question? i... i engaged with ethnic minority leaders across the - question? i... i engaged with ethnic minority leaders across the nhs - question? i... i engaged with ethnic| minority leaders across the nhs and indeed social care, specifically in terms of meetings, we will have to look through the diary to understand, to see who, and i am very happy to do that. let understand, to see who, and i am very happy to do that.— understand, to see who, and i am very happy to do that. let me move on to the second _ very happy to do that. let me move on to the second question. - very happy to do that. let me move on to the second question. what. on to the second question. what concrete — on to the second question. what concrete steps _ on to the second question. what concrete steps did _ on to the second question. what concrete steps did you _ on to the second question. what concrete steps did you take - on to the second question. what concrete steps did you take as l concrete steps did you take as health — concrete steps did you take as health secretary _ concrete steps did you take as health secretary to _ concrete steps did you take as health secretary to mitigate . concrete steps did you take as - health secretary to mitigate against the unequal— health secretary to mitigate against the unequal impact— health secretary to mitigate against the unequal impact of— health secretary to mitigate against the unequal impact of the _ health secretary to mitigate against the unequal impact of the pandemic on black. _ the unequal impact of the pandemic on black, asians _ the unequal impact of the pandemic on black, asians and _ the unequal impact of the pandemic on black, asians and minority- the unequal impact of the pandemici on black, asians and minority ethnic health— on black, asians and minority ethnic health care — on black, asians and minority ethnic health care workers _ on black, asians and minority ethnic health care workers and _ on black, asians and minority ethnic health care workers and patients? . health care workers and patients? there _ health care workers and patients? there were — health care workers and patients? there were a _ health care workers and patients? there were a number— health care workers and patients? there were a number of— health care workers and patients? there were a number of things- health care workers and patients? i there were a number of things that we had to do. as professor van tam set out in his evidence, making sure for instance that there was ppe that would fit people from any ethnic minority background, orfrom minority background, or from different minority background, orfrom different ethnic minority backgrounds, was an important issue that came to light. we worked on this. there was a wider question of how to protect all health care staff because there was a disproportionate impact of the virus on people from ethnic minority backgrounds because they were disproportionately engaged in patient—facing roles in the nhs. by in patient—facing roles in the nhs. by disproportionate i mean that in terms of the numbers, the statistics. not about whether that should have been the case or not, which is an important question, but at this point it was about how do we protect people in those, especially in those patient facing roles. ldiatomic! in those patient facing roles. would ou auree in those patient facing roles. would you agree that _ in those patient facing roles. would you agree that part _ in those patient facing roles. would you agree that part of _ in those patient facing roles. would you agree that part of this - in those patient facing roles. would you agree that part of this was - in those patient facing roles. would you agree that part of this was as l in those patient facing roles. would you agree that part of this was as a | you agree that part of this was as a result— you agree that part of this was as a result of— you agree that part of this was as a result of structural— you agree that part of this was as a result of structural inequalities. - result of structural inequalities. would _ result of structural inequalities. would you — result of structural inequalities. would you agree _ result of structural inequalities. would you agree with _ result of structural inequalities. would you agree with that? - would you agree with that? absolutely, _ would you agree with that? absolutely, and _ would you agree with that? absolutely, and part - would you agree with that? absolutely, and part of - would you agree with that? absolutely, and part of the | would you agree with that? - absolutely, and part of the work was about trying to understand what is to do with structural inequalities and the higher likelihood of people, especially in patient facing and service roles, being from ethnic minority backgrounds, and how much was a clinical question of the higher likelihood of covid causing severe disease and death, according to ethnic background. those were two overlapping and incredibly important considerations that the initially phd and then badenoch review was intended to try to get to the bottom of. ., ., ., , , of. let me move on. i have used up half of my — of. let me move on. i have used up half of my time. _ of. let me move on. i have used up half of my time. can _ of. let me move on. i have used up half of my time. can we _ of. let me move on. i have used up half of my time. can we call- of. let me move on. i have used up half of my time. can we call up - of. let me move on. i have used up half of my time. can we call up in l of. let me move on. i have used up| half of my time. can we call up in q 000176785— half of my time. can we call up in q 000176785 please. _ half of my time. can we call up in q 000176785 please. this _ half of my time. can we call up in q 000176785 please. this is _ 000176785 please. this is the whatsapp _ 000176785 please. this is the whatsapp exchange _ 000176785 please. this is the whatsapp exchange betweenl 000176785 please. this is the . whatsapp exchange between you 000176785 please. this is the - whatsapp exchange between you and helen whatley — whatsapp exchange between you and helen whatley in _ whatsapp exchange between you and helen whatley in june _ whatsapp exchange between you and helen whatley in june 2020. - whatsapp exchange between you and helen whatley in june 2020. helen . helen whatley in june 2020. helen whatley _ helen whatley in june 2020. helen whatley writes _ helen whatley in june 2020. helen whatley writes to _ helen whatley in june 2020. helen whatley writes to you _ helen whatley in june 2020. helen whatley writes to you quote, - helen whatley in june 2020. helen whatley writes to you quote, one l whatley writes to you quote, one more _ whatley writes to you quote, one more thing — whatley writes to you quote, one more thing on _ whatley writes to you quote, one more thing on the _ whatley writes to you quote, one more thing on the nhs _ whatley writes to you quote, one | more thing on the nhs workforce. whatley writes to you quote, one . more thing on the nhs workforce. i think— more thing on the nhs workforce. i think that _ more thing on the nhs workforce. i think that black, — more thing on the nhs workforce. i think that black, asian _ more thing on the nhs workforce. i think that black, asian and - more thing on the nhs workforce. ii think that black, asian and minority ethnic— think that black, asian and minority ethnic next — think that black, asian and minority ethnic next steps _ think that black, asian and minority ethnic next steps proposed - think that black, asian and minority ethnic next steps proposed are - ethnic next steps proposed are important — ethnic next steps proposed are important but _ ethnic next steps proposed are important but don't _ ethnic next steps proposed are important but don't go - ethnic next steps proposed are important but don't go far- ethnic next steps proposed are - important but don't go far enough. their— important but don't go far enough. their systemic _ important but don't go far enough. their systemic —— _ important but don't go far enough. their systemic —— make _ important but don't go far enough. their systemic —— make there - important but don't go far enough. their systemic —— make there is i their systemic —— make there is systemic— their systemic —— make there is systemic racism _ their systemic —— make there is systemic racism in— their systemic —— make there is systemic racism in the - their systemic —— make there is systemic racism in the nhs, - their systemic —— make there is systemic racism in the nhs, i. their systemic —— make there is i systemic racism in the nhs, i have seen _ systemic racism in the nhs, i have seen in _ systemic racism in the nhs, i have seen in the — systemic racism in the nhs, i have seen in the nhs _ systemic racism in the nhs, i have seen in the nhs bt. _ systemic racism in the nhs, i have seen in the nhs bt. now- systemic racism in the nhs, i have seen in the nhs bt. now could - systemic racism in the nhs, i have seen in the nhs bt. now could be| systemic racism in the nhs, i havei seen in the nhs bt. now could be a moment— seen in the nhs bt. now could be a moment to — seen in the nhs bt. now could be a moment to pick— seen in the nhs bt. now could be a moment to pick up _ seen in the nhs bt. now could be a moment to pick up a _ seen in the nhs bt. now could be a moment to pick up a piece - seen in the nhs bt. now could be a moment to pick up a piece of - seen in the nhs bt. now could be a moment to pick up a piece of work i seen in the nhs bt. now could be ai moment to pick up a piece of work to tackle _ moment to pick up a piece of work to tackle it~ _ moment to pick up a piece of work to tackle it you — moment to pick up a piece of work to tackle it. you respond _ moment to pick up a piece of work to tackle it. you respond by— moment to pick up a piece of work to tackle it. you respond by saying - tackle it. you respond by saying yes _ tackle it. you respond by saying yes agree _ tackle it. you respond by saying yes agree 100%~ _ tackle it. you respond by saying yes. agree 100%. can _ tackle it. you respond by saying yes. agree 100%. can you - tackle it. you respond by saying| yes. agree 100%. can you make tackle it. you respond by saying - yes. agree 100%. can you make that happen _ yes. agree 100%. can you make that happen she — yes. agree 100%. can you make that happen. she confirmed _ yes. agree 100%. can you make that happen. she confirmed that - yes. agree 100%. can you make that happen. she confirmed that she - yes. agree 100%. can you make that. happen. she confirmed that she would be delighted _ happen. she confirmed that she would be delighted to — happen. she confirmed that she would be delighted to do _ happen. she confirmed that she would be delighted to do so. _ happen. she confirmed that she would be delighted to do so. a _ happen. she confirmed that she would be delighted to do so. a couple - happen. she confirmed that she would be delighted to do so. a couple of- be delighted to do so. a couple of days later— be delighted to do so. a couple of days later she _ be delighted to do so. a couple of days later she messages - be delighted to do so. a couple of days later she messages you - be delighted to do so. a couple of| days later she messages you again and raises — days later she messages you again and raises that _ days later she messages you again and raises that quote, _ days later she messages you again and raises that quote, no- days later she messages you again and raises that quote, no one - days later she messages you again . and raises that quote, no one seems to be _ and raises that quote, no one seems to be mentioning _ and raises that quote, no one seems to be mentioning nhs— and raises that quote, no one seems to be mentioning nhs risk— and raises that quote, no one seems to be mentioning nhs risk reduction| to be mentioning nhs risk reduction framework— to be mentioning nhs risk reduction framework which _ to be mentioning nhs risk reduction framework which recognises - to be mentioning nhs risk reduction framework which recognises age - to be mentioning nhs risk reduction| framework which recognises age and ethnicity— framework which recognises age and ethnicity is _ framework which recognises age and ethnicity is a — framework which recognises age and ethnicity is a risk _ framework which recognises age and ethnicity is a risk factor. _ framework which recognises age and ethnicity is a risk factor. she - framework which recognises age and ethnicity is a risk factor. she says . ethnicity is a risk factor. she says she has— ethnicity is a risk factor. she says she has flagged _ ethnicity is a risk factor. she says she has flagged that _ ethnicity is a risk factor. she says she has flagged that with - ethnicity is a risk factor. she says| she has flagged that with number ten. she has flagged that with number ten~ can — she has flagged that with number ten~ can we — she has flagged that with number ten. can we agree _ she has flagged that with number ten. can we agree this. _ she has flagged that with number ten. can we agree this. you - she has flagged that with number. ten. can we agree this. you accept, do you _ ten. can we agree this. you accept, do you not. — ten. can we agree this. you accept, do you not. helen _ ten. can we agree this. you accept, do you not, helen whatley's - do you not, helen whatley's assertions— do you not, helen whatley's assertions that _ do you not, helen whatley's assertions that there - do you not, helen whatley's assertions that there was i do you not, helen whatley's - assertions that there was racism in the nhs, _ assertions that there was racism in the nhs, that— assertions that there was racism in the nhs, that was— assertions that there was racism in the nhs, that was we _ assertions that there was racism in the nhs, that was we can - assertions that there was racism in the nhs, that was we can agree i assertions that there was racism in l the nhs, that was we can agree that. yellow— the nhs, that was we can agree that. yellow i_ the nhs, that was we can agree that. yellow i addressed _ the nhs, that was we can agree that. yellow i addressed exactly _ the nhs, that was we can agree that. yellow i addressed exactly this - yellow i addressed exactly this question— yellow i addressed exactly this question before _ yellow i addressed exactly this question before the _ yellow i addressed exactly this question before the pandemic, yellow i addressed exactly this - question before the pandemic, given a speech— question before the pandemic, given a speech on— question before the pandemic, given a speech on it. — question before the pandemic, given a speech on it, referred _ question before the pandemic, given a speech on it, referred to _ question before the pandemic, given a speech on it, referred to in - question before the pandemic, given a speech on it, referred to in 2019. l a speech on it, referred to in 2019. there _ a speech on it, referred to in 2019. there was— a speech on it, referred to in 2019. there was this _ a speech on it, referred to in 2019. there was this internal _ a speech on it, referred to in 2019. there was this internal report - a speech on it, referred to in 2019. there was this internal report intoi there was this internal report into racist behaviour in nhs bt that was published on the 9th ofjune, so the day before this exchange started. irate day before this exchange started. we have got this response in mind and what _ have got this response in mind and what you _ have got this response in mind and what you said — have got this response in mind and what you said earlier— have got this response in mind and what you said earlier today. - have got this response in mind and what you said earlier today. let- have got this response in mind and| what you said earlier today. let me ask you _ what you said earlier today. let me ask you this — what you said earlier today. let me ask you this _ what you said earlier today. let me ask you this. little— what you said earlier today. let me ask you this. ...— ask you this. we are bringing ou the ask you this. we are bringing you the covid — ask you this. we are bringing you the covid inquiry _ ask you this. we are bringing you the covid inquiry live - ask you this. we are bringing you the covid inquiry live from i you the covid inquiry live from central london as former health secretary matt hancock continues to give evidence for a second day. it is time to say goodbye to our viewers on bbc two. if you would like to continue watching the inquiry to head to the bbc news channel or you can head to the bbc news websites or our app, where you can stream this life too. you are watching bbc news. let's head back to the inquiry and listening again to the inquiry and listening again to what mr hancock has to say as he continues to answer questions. this is “ust continues to answer questions. this is just before _ continues to answer questions. this isjust before the _ continues to answer questions. 11 s isjust before the badenoch review is just before the badenoch review is just before the badenoch review is announced, so what happens is that, in order to strengthen the response in this area, the department for equality is what is essentially brought in to do this. 0k. was it raised within senior ok. was it raised within senior personnel— 0k. was it raised within senior personnel within _ 0k. was it raised within senior personnel within the _ 0k. was it raised within senior personnel within the nhs, - 0k. was it raised within senior personnel within the nhs, for| personnel within the nhs, for example. _ personnel within the nhs, for e> you can see by my immediate reaction within ten minutes, yes, agree 100%. let me move on my last question is will stop— let me move on my last question is will stop i_ let me move on my last question is will stop i want _ let me move on my last question is will stop i want to _ let me move on my last question is will stop i want to get _ let me move on my last question is will stop i want to get them - let me move on my last question is will stop i want to get them done i will stop i want to get them done very quickly _ will stop i want to get them done very quickly. it _ will stop i want to get them done very quickly. it is _ will stop i want to get them done very quickly. it is alleged - will stop i want to get them done very quickly. it is alleged that - will stop i want to get them done | very quickly. it is alleged that the chapter— very quickly. it is alleged that the chapter was— very quickly. it is alleged that the chapter was removed _ very quickly. it is alleged that the chapter was removed from - very quickly. it is alleged that the chapter was removed from the i very quickly. it is alleged that the - chapter was removed from the public health _ chapter was removed from the public health england — chapter was removed from the public health england report _ chapter was removed from the public health england report on _ chapter was removed from the public health england report on disparate . health england report on disparate impact _ health england report on disparate impact on — health england report on disparate impact on black— health england report on disparate impact on black asian _ health england report on disparate impact on black asian and - health england report on disparate impact on black asian and ethnic. impact on black asian and ethnic minority— impact on black asian and ethnic minority groups _ impact on black asian and ethnic minority groups prior— impact on black asian and ethnic minority groups prior to - impact on black asian and ethnic. minority groups prior to publication full stop— minority groups prior to publication full stop media _ minority groups prior to publication full stop media reports _ minority groups prior to publication full stop media reports at - minority groups prior to publication full stop media reports at the - minority groups prior to publication full stop media reports at the time | full stop media reports at the time suggest _ full stop media reports at the time suggest this — full stop media reports at the time suggest this was _ full stop media reports at the time suggest this was at _ full stop media reports at the time suggest this was at your _ full stop media reports at the time suggest this was at your office's i suggest this was at your office's request — suggest this was at your office's request. quote, _ suggest this was at your office's request. quote, one— suggest this was at your office's request. quote, one source - suggest this was at your office'sl request. quote, one source with suggest this was at your office's - request. quote, one source with the knowledge _ request. quote, one source with the knowledge of— request. quote, one source with the knowledge of the _ request. quote, one source with the knowledge of the review, _ request. quote, one source with the knowledge of the review, said - request. quote, one source with the knowledge of the review, said the i knowledge of the review, said the section— knowledge of the review, said the section did — knowledge of the review, said the section did not _ knowledge of the review, said the section did not survive _ knowledge of the review, said the section did not survive contact - knowledge of the review, said the| section did not survive contact with matt hancock's _ section did not survive contact with matt hancock's office _ section did not survive contact with matt hancock's office over- section did not survive contact with matt hancock's office over the - matt hancock's office over the weekend _ matt hancock's office over the weekend and _ matt hancock's office over the weekend and the _ matt hancock's office over the weekend and the references i matt hancock's office over the| weekend and the references in matt hancock's office over the i weekend and the references in q 000308410 _ weekend and the references in q 000308410. not— weekend and the references in q 000308410. not it— weekend and the references in q 000308410. not it be _ weekend and the references in q 000308410. not it be called - weekend and the references in q 000308410. not it be called up, | weekend and the references in q - 000308410. not it be called up, that isjust— 000308410. not it be called up, that isi'ust the _ 000308410. not it be called up, that isjust the reference. _ 000308410. not it be called up, that is just the reference. exclusive - isjust the reference. exclusive government— isjust the reference. exclusive government censured... - is just the reference. exclusive - government censured... question, can you explain— government censured... question, can you explain the — government censured... question, can you explain the circumstances - you explain the circumstances surrounding _ you explain the circumstances surrounding this _ you explain the circumstances surrounding this paragraph's i surrounding this paragraph's removal? _ surrounding this paragraph's removal? l— surrounding this paragraph's removal? ., �* ,, ., ., removal? i don't know whether a ara . ra - h removal? i don't know whether a paragraph was — removal? i don't know whether a paragraph was removed - removal? i don't know whether a paragraph was removed or - removal? i don't know whether a paragraph was removed or not. l removal? i don't know whether a paragraph was removed or not. i | paragraph was removed or not. i can't recall that. i do recall there being a public discussion along the lines that is suggested by the hse report. i saw minister badenoch's testimony to this inquiry and i agree entirely with what she said. i accept that the decision to change the report into two reports, one essentially reporting the evidence that had been put forward, and another essentially a statistical and scientific report. i accept that that caused a distrust in the process. honestly my response to the paperwork that you have suggested, which are mentioned, which i have read, is that, if that happened, and i am not aware of whether i had any engagement with it at that time, it says matt hancock's office, it may have been that this was the beginning of the separation of this report into two separate reports and i concur with what kemi badenoch said. ., , ~ i concur with what kemi badenoch said. ., i concur with what kemi badenoch said. . n' ,. , i concur with what kemi badenoch said. ., y., , .,, said. let me ask you my last question- — said. let me ask you my last question. can _ said. let me ask you my last question. can we _ said. let me ask you my last question. can we agree - said. let me ask you my last question. can we agree on i said. let me ask you my last. question. can we agree on this, said. let me ask you my last - question. can we agree on this, mr hancock _ question. can we agree on this, mr hancock that _ question. can we agree on this, mr hancock. that on _ question. can we agree on this, mr hancock. that on reflection, - question. can we agree on this, mr hancock. that on reflection, the i hancock. that on reflection, the uk's _ hancock. that on reflection, the uk's government— hancock. that on reflection, the uk's government was _ hancock. that on reflection, the uk's government was not - hancock. that on reflection, the uk's government was not as - hancock. that on reflection, the| uk's government was not as well prepared — uk's government was not as well prepared and _ uk's government was not as well prepared and equipped _ uk's government was not as well prepared and equipped to - uk's government was not as well prepared and equipped to deal. uk's government was not as well . prepared and equipped to deal with the challenges _ prepared and equipped to deal with the challenges of _ prepared and equipped to deal with the challenges of the _ prepared and equipped to deal with the challenges of the pandemic- prepared and equipped to deal with| the challenges of the pandemic that were experienced _ the challenges of the pandemic that were experienced by— the challenges of the pandemic that were experienced by blacks, - the challenges of the pandemic that were experienced by blacks, asians| were experienced by blacks, asians and minority— were experienced by blacks, asians and minority ethnic— were experienced by blacks, asians and minority ethnic health - were experienced by blacks, asians and minority ethnic health care - and minority ethnic health care workers — and minority ethnic health care workers. that _ and minority ethnic health care workers. that is _ and minority ethnic health care workers. that is the _ workers. that is the disproportionate - workers. that is the i disproportionate death workers. that is the - disproportionate death rates workers. that is the _ disproportionate death rates and worse _ disproportionate death rates and worse adverse _ disproportionate death rates and worse adverse health _ disproportionate death rates and worse adverse health outcomes. j disproportionate death rates and i worse adverse health outcomes. can we agree _ worse adverse health outcomes. can we agree on— worse adverse health outcomes. can we agree on that? _ worse adverse health outcomes. can we agree on that? [— worse adverse health outcomes. can we agree on that?— we agree on that? i think that is true. it we agree on that? i think that is true- it is _ we agree on that? i think that is true. it is also _ we agree on that? i think that is true. it is also true _ we agree on that? i think that is true. it is also true of— we agree on that? i think that is true. it is also true of the - true. it is also true of the response in terms of everybody. i think the lesson is that we are learning here specifically, in terms of disparities and the impact, disproportionate impact of people from ethnic minority backgrounds, is a very important part of the lessons that we need to learn for the future. 1 that we need to learn for the future. ~ ., ., i] future. i think we are agreed. i think we have _ future. i think we are agreed. i think we have agreed - future. i think we are agreed. i think we have agreed on - future. i think we are agreed. i | think we have agreed on almost everything. 1 think we have agreed on almost everything-— think we have agreed on almost eve hina. ~' . ., ~ everything. i think we have. thank ou. everything. i think we have. thank you- thank — everything. i think we have. thank you- thank you — everything. i think we have. thank you. thank you mr _ everything. i think we have. thank you. thank you mr thomas. - everything. i think we have. thank you. thank you mr thomas. mr i you. thank you mr thomas. mr stanton. again, _ you. thank you mr thomas. mr stanton. again, behind - you. thank you mr thomas. mr stanton. again, behind you, i you. thank you mr thomas. mr| stanton. again, behind you, mr hancock. good _ stanton. again, behind you, mr hancock. good afternoon, - stanton. again, behind you, mr hancock. good afternoon, mr i stanton. again, behind you, mr- hancock. good afternoon, mr hancock. i am hancock. good afternoon, mr hancock. lam sorry— hancock. good afternoon, mr hancock. i am sorry about — hancock. good afternoon, mr hancock. i am sorry about the _ hancock. good afternoon, mr hancock. i am sorry about the slightly— i am sorry about the slightly awkward _ i am sorry about the slightly awkward positioning. - i am sorry about the slightly awkward positioning. i- i am sorry about the slightly- awkward positioning. i represent the british_ awkward positioning. i represent the british medical— awkward positioning. i represent the british medical association _ awkward positioning. i represent the british medical association and - awkward positioning. i represent the british medical association and i- british medical association and i will be _ british medical association and i will be asking _ british medical association and i will be asking you _ british medical association and i will be asking you some - british medical association and i. will be asking you some questions concerning — will be asking you some questions concerning the _ will be asking you some questions concerning the circumstances - will be asking you some questions concerning the circumstances of. concerning the circumstances of doctors — concerning the circumstances of doctors and _ concerning the circumstances of doctors and health _ concerning the circumstances of doctors and health care - concerning the circumstances ofi doctors and health care workers. concerning the circumstances of- doctors and health care workers. i'd like to— doctors and health care workers. i'd like to highlight _ doctors and health care workers. i'd like to highlight a _ doctors and health care workers. i'd like to highlight a couple _ doctors and health care workers. i'd like to highlight a couple of- doctors and health care workers. i'd like to highlight a couple of points. like to highlight a couple of points of relevant — like to highlight a couple of points of relevant background _ like to highlight a couple of points of relevant background before - like to highlight a couple of points of relevant background before i. like to highlight a couple of points. of relevant background before i ask you questions _ of relevant background before i ask you questions. the _ of relevant background before i ask you questions. the first— of relevant background before i ask you questions. the first is- of relevant background before i ask you questions. the first is a - of relevant background before i ask you questions. the first is a piece l you questions. the first is a piece of information— you questions. the first is a piece of information i— you questions. the first is a piece of information i think— you questions. the first is a piece of information i think you - you questions. the first is a piece of information i think you will- you questions. the first is a piece of information i think you will bel of information i think you will be aware _ of information i think you will be aware of— of information i think you will be aware of and _ of information i think you will be aware of and i— of information i think you will be aware of and i don't _ of information i think you will be aware of and i don't think- of information i think you will be aware of and i don't think we - of information i think you will be l aware of and i don't think we need to bring _ aware of and i don't think we need to bring it — aware of and i don't think we need to bring it up— aware of and i don't think we need to bring it up on— aware of and i don't think we need to bring it up on screen. _ aware of and i don't think we need to bring it up on screen. it- aware of and i don't think we need to bring it up on screen. it is- aware of and i don't think we need to bring it up on screen. it is an i to bring it up on screen. it is an ons— to bring it up on screen. it is an ons survey— to bring it up on screen. it is an ons survey from _ to bring it up on screen. it is an ons survey from july _ to bring it up on screen. it is an ons survey from july 2020 - to bring it up on screen. it is an i ons survey from july 2020 which showed _ ons survey from july 2020 which showed that— ons survey from july 2020 which showed that health _ ons survey from july 2020 which showed that health care - ons survey from july 2020 which showed that health care workersl ons survey from july 2020 which . showed that health care workers and social— showed that health care workers and social care _ showed that health care workers and social care workers _ showed that health care workers and social care workers were _ showed that health care workers and social care workers were six - showed that health care workers and social care workers were six times i social care workers were six times more _ social care workers were six times more likely— social care workers were six times more likely at— social care workers were six times more likely at increased _ social care workers were six times more likely at increased risk- social care workers were six times more likely at increased risk of- more likely at increased risk of infection _ more likely at increased risk of infection. , ., , more likely at increased risk of infection._ just l more likely at increased risk of. infection._ just for infection. yes of course. just for the transcript _ infection. yes of course. just for the transcript that _ infection. yes of course. just for the transcript that references in i infection. yes of course. just for l the transcript that references in q the transcript that references in 0 treble _ the transcript that references in 0 treble 0271363. _ the transcript that references in 0 treble 0271363. the _ the transcript that references in 0 treble 0271363. the second - the transcript that references in 0 treble 0271363. the second piecel the transcript that references in 0. treble 0271363. the second piece of information, — treble 0271363. the second piece of information, which— treble 0271363. the second piece of information, which i— treble 0271363. the second piece of information, which i think— treble 0271363. the second piece of information, which i think will- treble 0271363. the second piece of information, which i think will be i information, which i think will be helpful, — information, which i think will be helpful. and _ information, which i think will be helpful. and l'd _ information, which i think will be helpful, and i'd like _ information, which i think will be helpful, and i'd like to _ information, which i think will be helpful, and i'd like to bring i information, which i think will be helpful, and i'd like to bring up l information, which i think will be i helpful, and i'd like to bring up on screen, _ helpful, and i'd like to bring up on screen, is — helpful, and i'd like to bring up on screen, isan— helpful, and i'd like to bring up on screen, is an e—mail_ helpful, and i'd like to bring up on screen, is an e—mail from - helpful, and i'd like to bring up on i screen, is an e—mail from professor van tani. _ screen, is an e—mail from professor vantanr, right— screen, is an e—mail from professor vantanr, right at— screen, is an e—mail from professor van tam, right at the _ screen, is an e—mail from professor van tam, right at the start - screen, is an e—mail from professor van tam, right at the start of - screen, is an e—mail from professor van tam, right at the start of the i van tam, right at the start of the pandemic— van tam, right at the start of the pandemic on— van tam, right at the start of the pandemic on the _ van tam, right at the start of the pandemic on the 14th _ van tam, right at the start of the pandemic on the 14th of- van tam, right at the start of the pandemic on the 14th ofjanuary,| pandemic on the 14th ofjanuary, this is— pandemic on the 14th ofjanuary, this is at— pandemic on the 14th ofjanuary, this is at w — pandemic on the 14th ofjanuary, this is at w 0— pandemic on the 14th ofjanuary, this is at in 0 000151314. - pandemic on the 14th ofjanuary, i this is at in 0 000151314. hopefully you have _ this is at in 0 000151314. hopefully you have got — this is at in 0 000151314. hopefully you have got that— this is at in 0 000151314. hopefully you have got that before _ this is at in 0 000151314. hopefully you have got that before you. - this is at in 0 000151314. hopefully you have got that before you. it i this is at in 0 000151314. hopefully you have got that before you. it is i you have got that before you. it is 'ust you have got that before you. it is just the _ you have got that before you. it is just the first — you have got that before you. it is just the first point _ you have got that before you. it is just the first point in _ you have got that before you. it is just the first point in the - you have got that before you. it is just the first point in the e—maili just the first point in the e—mail that i_ just the first point in the e—mail that i would _ just the first point in the e—mail that i would like _ just the first point in the e—mail that i would like to _ just the first point in the e—mail that i would like to bring - just the first point in the e—mail that i would like to bring to- just the first point in the e—mail| that i would like to bring to your attention — that i would like to bring to your attention. professor— that i would like to bring to your attention. professorvan- that i would like to bring to your attention. professor van tam i that i would like to bring to your attention. professor van tam is| attention. professor van tam is providing — attention. professor van tam is providing some _ attention. professor van tam is providing some advice - attention. professor van tam is providing some advice to - attention. professor van tam is providing some advice to your. providing some advice to your department— providing some advice to your department right _ providing some advice to your department right at _ providing some advice to your department right at the - providing some advice to your department right at the early| department right at the early stages, — department right at the early stages, about— department right at the early stages, about triggers - department right at the early stages, about triggers for i stages, about triggers for escalating _ stages, about triggers for escalating the _ stages, about triggers for escalating the response. i stages, about triggers for - escalating the response. trigger one, _ escalating the response. trigger one. as — escalating the response. trigger one. as you _ escalating the response. trigger one. as you can— escalating the response. trigger one, as you can see, _ escalating the response. trigger one, as you can see, is- escalating the response. trigger one, as you can see, is in- escalating the response. trigger. one, as you can see, is in relation to infections— one, as you can see, is in relation to infections amongst _ one, as you can see, is in relation to infections amongst health i one, as you can see, is in relation to infections amongst health care| to infections amongst health care workers — to infections amongst health care workers he _ to infections amongst health care workers. he makes _ to infections amongst health care workers. he makes the _ to infections amongst health care workers. he makes the point i to infections amongst health care workers. he makes the point in l to infections amongst health care workers. he makes the point in aj workers. he makes the point in a style _ workers. he makes the point in a style which— workers. he makes the point in a style which we _ workers. he makes the point in a style which we have _ workers. he makes the point in a style which we have become i workers. he makes the point in a i style which we have become familiar with. _ style which we have become familiar with. that _ style which we have become familiar with, that health— style which we have become familiar with, that health care _ style which we have become familiar with, that health care workers - style which we have become familiar with, that health care workers are i with, that health care workers are always _ with, that health care workers are always the — with, that health care workers are always the canary— with, that health care workers are always the canary in _ with, that health care workers are always the canary in the _ with, that health care workers are always the canary in the coal i with, that health care workers are. always the canary in the coal mine. by always the canary in the coal mine. by which _ always the canary in the coal mine. by which he — always the canary in the coal mine. by which he obviously _ always the canary in the coal mine. by which he obviously means - always the canary in the coal mine. by which he obviously means theyl always the canary in the coal mine. i by which he obviously means they are the first— by which he obviously means they are the first identifiable _ by which he obviously means they are the first identifiable group _ by which he obviously means they are the first identifiable group that - the first identifiable group that will become _ the first identifiable group that will become infected _ the first identifiable group that will become infected and - the first identifiable group that will become infected and as i the first identifiable group that i will become infected and as such, they will— will become infected and as such, they will operate _ will become infected and as such, they will operate as _ will become infected and as such, they will operate as an _ will become infected and as such, they will operate as an early- they will operate as an early warning _ they will operate as an early warning system, _ they will operate as an early warning system, - they will operate as an early warning system, will- they will operate as an early. warning system, will make specifically— warning system, will make specifically of— warning system, will make i specifically of person—to—person transmission. _ specifically of person—to—person transmission. yes, _ specifically of person—to—person transmission. yes, thank- specifically of person—to—person transmission. yes, thank you. . specifically of person—to—person i transmission. yes, thank you. with these _ transmission. yes, thank you. with these points— transmission. yes, thank you. with these points about _ transmission. yes, thank you. with these points about increased - transmission. yes, thank you. with these points about increased risk. transmission. yes, thank you. withj these points about increased risk in mind. _ these points about increased risk in mind. and — these points about increased risk in mind, and thinking _ these points about increased risk in mind, and thinking about _ these points about increased risk in mind, and thinking about your- mind, and thinking about your representations _ mind, and thinking about your representations throughout i mind, and thinking about yourl representations throughout the summer— representations throughout the summer of— representations throughout the summer of 2020— representations throughout the summer of 2020 and _ representations throughout the summer of 2020 and into - representations throughout the summer of 2020 and into the l representations throughout the - summer of 2020 and into the autumn, and about— summer of 2020 and into the autumn, and about the — summer of 2020 and into the autumn, and about the need _ summer of 2020 and into the autumn, and about the need for— summer of 2020 and into the autumn, and about the need for caution - summer of 2020 and into the autumn, and about the need for caution when . and about the need for caution when opening _ and about the need for caution when opening up. — and about the need for caution when opening up. i— and about the need for caution when opening up. iwould— and about the need for caution when opening up, i would like _ and about the need for caution when opening up, i would like to - and about the need for caution when opening up, i would like to ask- and about the need for caution when opening up, i would like to ask you i opening up, i would like to ask you about— opening up, i would like to ask you about the _ opening up, i would like to ask you about the extent _ opening up, i would like to ask you about the extent to _ opening up, i would like to ask you about the extent to which - opening up, i would like to ask you about the extent to which you i opening up, i would like to ask you about the extent to which you felt i about the extent to which you felt you were — about the extent to which you felt you were able _ about the extent to which you felt you were able to _ about the extent to which you felt you were able to advocate - about the extent to which you felt you were able to advocate on i about the extent to which you felt . you were able to advocate on behalf of health _ you were able to advocate on behalf of health care — you were able to advocate on behalf of health care workers, _ you were able to advocate on behalf of health care workers, who - you were able to advocate on behalf of health care workers, who had i of health care workers, who had faced _ of health care workers, who had faced the — of health care workers, who had faced the traumatic— of health care workers, who had faced the traumatic experience i of health care workers, who had. faced the traumatic experience in dealing _ faced the traumatic experience in dealing with _ faced the traumatic experience in dealing with the _ faced the traumatic experience in dealing with the first _ faced the traumatic experience in dealing with the first wave, - dealing with the first wave, suffered _ dealing with the first wave, suffered high— dealing with the first wave, suffered high levels - dealing with the first wave, suffered high levels of- dealing with the first wave, i suffered high levels of infection, and desperately— suffered high levels of infection, and desperately needed - suffered high levels of infection, and desperately needed an i and desperately needed an opportunity— and desperately needed an opportunity to— and desperately needed an opportunity to recover, i and desperately needed an| opportunity to recover, and and desperately needed an i opportunity to recover, and if possible. _ opportunity to recover, and if possible. to _ opportunity to recover, and if possible, to avoid _ opportunity to recover, and if possible, to avoid a - opportunity to recover, and if possible, to avoid a second . opportunity to recover, and if- possible, to avoid a second wave. 1 possible, to avoid a second wave. i felt possible, to avoid a second wave. felt that argument very deeply. could you help the inquiry with any insights— could you help the inquiry with any insights about _ could you help the inquiry with any insights about any _ could you help the inquiry with any insights about any obstacles - could you help the inquiry with any insights about any obstacles you i insights about any obstacles you might— insights about any obstacles you might have _ insights about any obstacles you might have faced _ insights about any obstacles you might have faced in— insights about any obstacles you might have faced in this - insights about any obstacles you might have faced in this regard? well. _ might have faced in this regard? well. the — might have faced in this regard? well, the obstacles— might have faced in this regard? well, the obstacles are... - might have faced in this regard? well, the obstacles are... werel well, the obstacles are... were described and discussed in the questioning from mr keith, because, in the same way, to tag along covid, to tackle covid, is to stop health care workers dying from covert, you need to tackle covid. there are also specific actions that you can take. you are specifically about the summer. by the summer we didn't have a very significant testing operation. testing in hospitals, but earlier would we were discussing the challenges of getting testing and care homes and in a way, your question demonstrates that there are other priorities to that need to be considered. in that instance i always took clinical advice on that prioritisation but yes,... and the same goes for ppe by the way, where there was this tension, where do you use your pp, an argument that you are rightly, correctly and understandably making, is health care workers are amongst those who are most highly affected. it was for instance why we put health care workers in the very first group to get the vaccine.— workers in the very first group to get the vaccine. yes, thank you. can i move on — get the vaccine. yes, thank you. can i move on to — get the vaccine. yes, thank you. can i move on to a _ get the vaccine. yes, thank you. can i move on to a connected _ get the vaccine. yes, thank you. can i move on to a connected issue, i get the vaccine. yes, thank you. can i move on to a connected issue, and| i move on to a connected issue, and one that _ i move on to a connected issue, and one that also — i move on to a connected issue, and one that also concerns _ i move on to a connected issue, and one that also concerns risk- i move on to a connected issue, and one that also concerns risk of- one that also concerns risk of infection? _ one that also concerns risk of infection? can _ one that also concerns risk of infection? can i _ one that also concerns risk of infection? can i ask- one that also concerns risk of infection? can i ask you i one that also concerns risk of| infection? can i ask you about one that also concerns risk of- infection? can i ask you about your understanding _ infection? can i ask you about your understanding of— infection? can i ask you about your understanding of airborne - understanding of airborne transmission? _ understanding of airborne transmission? what - understanding of airborne transmission? what will i understanding of airborne i transmission? what will you understanding of airborne _ transmission? what will you advised about— transmission? what will you advised about this _ transmission? what will you advised about this risk — transmission? what will you advised about this risk and _ transmission? what will you advised about this risk and when _ transmission? what will you advised about this risk and when did - transmission? what will you advised about this risk and when did you i about this risk and when did you become — about this risk and when did you become aware _ about this risk and when did you become aware that _ about this risk and when did you become aware that it _ about this risk and when did you become aware that it was - about this risk and when did you become aware that it was a i become aware that it was a significant _ become aware that it was a significant route _ become aware that it was a significant route of- become aware that it was a - significant route of transmission? just to— significant route of transmission? just to be — significant route of transmission? just to be totally— significant route of transmission? just to be totally clear, _ significant route of transmission? just to be totally clear, i - significant route of transmission? just to be totally clear, i asking . just to be totally clear, i asking about the distinction between droplet and airborne chris green yes i am. this was a really important point and sometimes quite complicated to discuss. also the science behind it was very complicated to ascertain. how the virus spread from one person to another is obviously an absolutely critical part of transmission, not only the rate of transmission but how. early on, based on previous coronaviruses, it was largely assumed that it was droplets that may transmission happen, and therefore, not being close to somebody was one of the most important things. but it became clear through the early summer of 2020 that in fact, aerosol, airborne transmission was more important. it was a bit like if you have a... i remember the very first description, which was given to me by professor van tam and his eloquent way, if you have smoky candle, the way that the smoke will go in the whole room. the consequence of that is ventilation, what became seen as much more important, and is more important for dealing with the transmission of covid, and droplets. that was not understood at the start because it was a novel disease in the starting point was an assumption that the transmission was the same as sars cover one. he spoke at length yesterday about your regrets in relation to asymptomatic transmission. d0 relation to asymptomatic transmission.— relation to asymptomatic transmission. , ., ~ ., transmission. do you think there are any parallels — transmission. do you think there are any parallels and _ transmission. do you think there are any parallels and lessons _ transmission. do you think there are any parallels and lessons to - transmission. do you think there are any parallels and lessons to be - any parallels and lessons to be learned — any parallels and lessons to be learned with _ any parallels and lessons to be learned with aerosol— any parallels and lessons to be - learned with aerosol transmission, for example — learned with aerosol transmission, for example should _ learned with aerosol transmission, for example should a _ learned with aerosol transmission, for example should a more - learned with aerosol transmission, i for example should a more cautionary approach _ for example should a more cautionary approach have — for example should a more cautionary approach have been— for example should a more cautionary approach have been taken. _ for example should a more cautionary approach have been taken. iantith- approach have been taken. with hindsirht, approach have been taken. hindsight, obviously. ithink approach have been taken.- hindsight, obviously. i think that, at the time, again the science and this was was unclear. i do think, to your point, a lesson to the future is that when you have a disease that spreads without necessarily person—to—person touch, then you should immediately assume that good ventilation should be part of your infection control procedures. thank ou. i will infection control procedures. thank you. i will move _ infection control procedures. thank you. i will move now— infection control procedures. thank you. i will move now to _ infection control procedures. thank you. i will move now to my - infection control procedures. thank you. i will move now to my last - you. i will move now to my last question— you. i will move now to my last question area _ you. i will move now to my last question area. you _ you. i will move now to my last question area. you mentioned i you. i will move now to my last - question area. you mentioned earlier that during _ question area. you mentioned earlier that during early _ question area. you mentioned earlier that during early summer— question area. you mentioned earlier that during early summer 2020, - that during early summer 2020, airborne — that during early summer 2020, airborne transmission— that during early summer 2020, airborne transmission became . that during early summer 2020, - airborne transmission became more important. — airborne transmission became more important. or— airborne transmission became more important. or it— airborne transmission became more important, or it was _ airborne transmission became more important, or it was realised - airborne transmission became more important, or it was realised that i important, or it was realised that it was— important, or it was realised that it was more — important, or it was realised that it was more significant. - important, or it was realised that it was more significant. can- important, or it was realised that it was more significant. can i- important, or it was realised that it was more significant. can i ask| it was more significant. can i ask you about — it was more significant. can i ask you about decisions _ it was more significant. can i ask you about decisions taken - it was more significant. can i ask you about decisions taken in - it was more significant. can i ask. you about decisions taken injune, at the _ you about decisions taken injune, at the end — you about decisions taken injune, at the end of— you about decisions taken injune, at the end ofjune, _ you about decisions taken injune, at the end ofjune, to— you about decisions taken injune, at the end ofjune, to stop - at the end ofjune, to stop purchasing _ at the end ofjune, to stop purchasing ppe? - at the end ofjune, to stop purchasing ppe? you - at the end ofjune, to stop purchasing ppe? you havei at the end ofjune, to stop - purchasing ppe? you have told us about— purchasing ppe? you have told us about your— purchasing ppe? you have told us about your direction _ purchasing ppe? you have told us about your direction to _ purchasing ppe? you have told us about your direction to begin - about your direction to begin purchasing, _ about your direction to begin purchasing, '— about your direction to begin purchasing, i think— about your direction to begin purchasing, i think towards i about your direction to begin . purchasing, i think towards the about your direction to begin - purchasing, i think towards the end ofjanuary. — purchasing, i think towards the end of janua . ., ., ofjanuary. right at the end of janua . ofjanuary. right at the end of january- that _ ofjanuary. right at the end of january. that does _ ofjanuary. right at the end of january. that does need - ofjanuary. right at the end of january. that does need to . ofjanuary. right at the end of. january. that does need to come to an end at some _ january. that does need to come to an end at some point _ january. that does need to come to an end at some point and _ january. that does need to come to an end at some point and at - january. that does need to come to an end at some point and at the - january. that does need to come to | an end at some point and at the end ofjune— an end at some point and at the end ofjune stop — an end at some point and at the end ofjune stop notices— an end at some point and at the end ofjune stop notices were _ an end at some point and at the end ofjune stop notices were put - an end at some point and at the end ofjune stop notices were put on - ofjune stop notices were put on purchasing — ofjune stop notices were put on purchasing of— ofjune stop notices were put on purchasing of ppe. _ ofjune stop notices were put on purchasing of ppe. your- ofjune stop notices were put on i purchasing of ppe. your permanent secretary, — purchasing of ppe. your permanent secretary, addresses— purchasing of ppe. your permanent secretary, addresses this _ purchasing of ppe. your permanent secretary, addresses this in - purchasing of ppe. your permanent secretary, addresses this in his- secretary, addresses this in his statement _ secretary, addresses this in his statement. eff— secretary, addresses this in his statement. ffp three - secretary, addresses this in his statement. ffp three masks i secretary, addresses this in his. statement. ffp three masks were secretary, addresses this in his- statement. ffp three masks were no longer— statement. ffp three masks were no tonger purchased _ statement. ffp three masks were no longer purchased after— statement. ffp three masks were no longer purchased after the _ statement. ffp three masks were no longer purchased after the 30th - statement. ffp three masks were no longer purchased after the 30th of. longer purchased after the 30th of june _ longer purchased after the 30th of june. as _ longer purchased after the 30th of june. as you — longer purchased after the 30th of june. as you will— longer purchased after the 30th of june. as you will be _ longer purchased after the 30th of june. as you will be aware - longer purchased after the 30th of june. as you will be aware these l longer purchased after the 30th of. june. as you will be aware these are the matt— june. as you will be aware these are the matt discs— june. as you will be aware these are the matt discs that _ june. as you will be aware these are the matt discs that provide - june. as you will be aware these are i the matt discs that provide maximum protection _ the matt discs that provide maximum protection from — the matt discs that provide maximum protection from airborne _ the matt discs that provide maximum protection from airborne viruses. - the matt discs that provide maximum protection from airborne viruses. —— i protection from airborne viruses. —— masks _ protection from airborne viruses. —— masks given— protection from airborne viruses. —— masks. given that _ protection from airborne viruses. —— masks. given that the _ protection from airborne viruses. —— masks. given that the awareness i protection from airborne viruses. —— masks. given that the awareness of| masks. given that the awareness of the risi very important lesson for the future. so irrespective of the chronology, which i am happy to look at, and the paperwork, for the future, it is notjust about having a ppe stockpile it is about having a ppe stockpile that is most likely to be immediately and urgently useful in the event of a pandemic. thank ou, mr in the event of a pandemic. thank you, mr hancock. _ in the event of a pandemic. thank you, mr hancock. thank— in the event of a pandemic. thank you, mr hancock. thank you - in the event of a pandemic. thank you, mr hancock. thank you mr. you, mr hancock. thank you mr stanton. miss _ you, mr hancock. thank you mr stanton. miss davies. - you, mr hancock. thank you mr stanton. miss davies. ms- you, mr hancock. thank you mr| stanton. miss davies. ms davies you, mr hancock. thank you mr. stanton. miss davies. ms davies is over there. — stanton. miss davies. ms davies is overthere, mr stanton. miss davies. ms davies is over there, mr hancock. can stanton. miss davies. ms davies is over there, mr hancock.— stanton. miss davies. ms davies is over there, mr hancock. can you see and hear me — over there, mr hancock. can you see and hear me all— over there, mr hancock. can you see and hear me all right? _ over there, mr hancock. can you see and hear me all right? yes _ over there, mr hancock. can you see and hear me all right? yes because i and hear me all right? yes because rinr ou and hear me all right? yes because ring you know— and hear me all right? yes because ring you know that _ and hear me all right? yes because ring you know that i _ and hear me all right? yes because ring you know that i worked - and hear me all right? yes because ring you know that i worked for - and hear me all right? yes because ring you know that i worked for the | ring you know that i worked for the —— topics are in domestic abuse. green backless top with the regulations, which i say you have response but signing off.- regulations, which i say you have response but signing off. under the reaulations response but signing off. under the regulations that _ response but signing off. under the regulations that came _ response but signing off. under the regulations that came into - response but signing off. under the regulations that came into force - response but signing off. under the regulations that came into force on | regulations that came into force on the 2tith— regulations that came into force on the 26th of— regulations that came into force on the 26th of march, _ regulations that came into force on the 26th of march, they _ regulations that came into force on the 26th of march, they were - regulations that came into force on the 26th of march, they were the l the 26th of march, they were the first ones— the 26th of march, they were the first ones but— the 26th of march, they were the first ones but they _ the 26th of march, they were the first ones but they were - the 26th of march, they were the first ones but they were the - the 26th of march, they were the first ones but they were the ones for lockdown, _ first ones but they were the ones for lockdown, then _ first ones but they were the ones for lockdown, then the _ first ones but they were the ones i for lockdown, then the requirement was to— for lockdown, then the requirement was to stay—at—home. _ for lockdown, then the requirement was to stay—at—home. there - for lockdown, then the requirement was to stay—at—home. there were l was to stay—at—home. there were certain— was to stay—at—home. there were certain exemptions _ was to stay—at—home. there were certain exemptions from - was to stay—at—home. there were certain exemptions from that, - was to stay—at—home. there were| certain exemptions from that, and two of— certain exemptions from that, and two of the — certain exemptions from that, and two of the exemptions, _ certain exemptions from that, and two of the exemptions, three - certain exemptions from that, and two of the exemptions, three of. certain exemptions from that, and i two of the exemptions, three of the exemptions— two of the exemptions, three of the exemptions and _ two of the exemptions, three of the exemptions and facts _ two of the exemptions, three of the exemptions and facts that _ two of the exemptions, three of the exemptions and facts that people i exemptions and facts that people could _ exemptions and facts that people could leave — exemptions and facts that people could leave if— exemptions and facts that people could leave if they— exemptions and facts that people could leave if they had _ exemptions and facts that people could leave if they had to - exemptions and facts that people could leave if they had to accessi could leave if they had to access critical _ could leave if they had to access critical public _ could leave if they had to access critical public services, - could leave if they had to access critical public services, including services — critical public services, including services provided _ critical public services, including services provided to _ critical public services, including services provided to victims - critical public services, including| services provided to victims such critical public services, including. services provided to victims such as victims _ services provided to victims such as victims of— services provided to victims such as victims of crime _ services provided to victims such as victims of crime and _ services provided to victims such as victims of crime and another - services provided to victims such as victims of crime and another one, l victims of crime and another one, that they— victims of crime and another one, that they could _ victims of crime and another one, that they could leave _ victims of crime and another one, that they could leave in _ victims of crime and another one, that they could leave in order- victims of crime and another one, that they could leave in order to i that they could leave in order to avoid _ that they could leave in order to avoid injury— that they could leave in order to avoid injury or— that they could leave in order to avoid injury or illness _ that they could leave in order to avoid injury or illness or - that they could leave in order to avoid injury or illness or escape | avoid injury or illness or escape risk of— avoid injury or illness or escape risk of harm _ avoid injury or illness or escape risk of harm.— avoid injury or illness or escape risk of harm. yes. did - avoid injury or illness or escape risk of harm. yes. did you - avoid injury or illness or escape risk of harm. yes. did you have avoid injury or illness or escape - risk of harm. yes. did you have mind the need to — risk of harm. yes. did you have mind the need to live _ risk of harm.“ did you have mind the need to live domestic— risk of harm.“ did you have mind the need to live domestic abuse - risk of harm.“ did you have mindi the need to live domestic abuse when you approve _ the need to live domestic abuse when you approve this? _ the need to live domestic abuse when you approve this? did _ the need to live domestic abuse when you approve this? did you _ the need to live domestic abuse when you approve this? did you ever- you approve this? did you ever consider— you approve this? did you ever consider a _ you approve this? did you ever consider a parallel— you approve this? did you ever consider a parallel provision, l you approve this? did you ever. consider a parallel provision, and you approve this? did you ever- consider a parallel provision, and i put the _ consider a parallel provision, and i put the scenario _ consider a parallel provision, and i put the scenario to _ consider a parallel provision, and i put the scenario to you, _ consider a parallel provision, and i put the scenario to you, in - consider a parallel provision, and i put the scenario to you, in normal| put the scenario to you, in normal times, _ put the scenario to you, in normal times, outside— put the scenario to you, in normal times, outside of— put the scenario to you, in normal times, outside of lockdown, - put the scenario to you, in normal. times, outside of lockdown, outside a pandemic, — times, outside of lockdown, outside a pandemic, that _ times, outside of lockdown, outside a pandemic, that it— times, outside of lockdown, outside a pandemic, that it is— times, outside of lockdown, outside a pandemic, that it is not— times, outside of lockdown, outside a pandemic, that it is not unusual. a pandemic, that it is not unusual for women, — a pandemic, that it is not unusual forwomen, mainly— a pandemic, that it is not unusual for women, mainly women, - a pandemic, that it is not unusual for women, mainly women, who. a pandemic, that it is not unusual- for women, mainly women, who have to leave as _ for women, mainly women, who have to leave as a _ for women, mainly women, who have to leave as a result — for women, mainly women, who have to leave as a result of— for women, mainly women, who have to leave as a result of domestic _ for women, mainly women, who have to leave as a result of domestic abuse. - leave as a result of domestic abuse. if leave as a result of domestic abuse. if they— leave as a result of domestic abuse. if they don't — leave as a result of domestic abuse. if they don't go _ leave as a result of domestic abuse. if they don't go to _ leave as a result of domestic abuse. if they don't go to refuges _ leave as a result of domestic abuse. if they don't go to refuges they - if they don't go to refuges they might— if they don't go to refuges they might go— if they don't go to refuges they might go to _ if they don't go to refuges they might go to their— if they don't go to refuges they might go to their sister- if they don't go to refuges they might go to their sister or - if they don't go to refuges they i might go to their sister or mother or best _ might go to their sister or mother or best friend _ might go to their sister or mother or best friend and _ might go to their sister or mother or best friend and stay— might go to their sister or mother or best friend and stay in - might go to their sister or mother or best friend and stay in a - might go to their sister or mother or best friend and stay in a spare i or best friend and stay in a spare room: _ or best friend and stay in a spare room. get — or best friend and stay in a spare room. get some _ or best friend and stay in a spare room, get some respite - or best friend and stay in a spare room, get some respite time - or best friend and stay in a spare . room, get some respite time while they make — room, get some respite time while they make decisions _ room, get some respite time while they make decisions and _ room, get some respite time while they make decisions and so - room, get some respite time while they make decisions and so forth. i they make decisions and so forth. there _ they make decisions and so forth. there is— they make decisions and so forth. there is nothing _ they make decisions and so forth. there is nothing in— they make decisions and so forth. there is nothing in the _ they make decisions and so forth. i there is nothing in the regulations that allows — there is nothing in the regulations that allows for— there is nothing in the regulations that allows for somebody- there is nothing in the regulations that allows for somebody to - there is nothing in the regulations that allows for somebody to let. that allows for somebody to let somebody _ that allows for somebody to let somebody else _ that allows for somebody to let somebody else into _ that allows for somebody to let somebody else into her- that allows for somebody to let somebody else into her home i that allows for somebody to letl somebody else into her home in that allows for somebody to let - somebody else into her home in order to provide _ somebody else into her home in order to provide a _ somebody else into her home in order to provide a refuge, _ somebody else into her home in order to provide a refuge, a _ somebody else into her home in order to provide a refuge, a place _ somebody else into her home in order to provide a refuge, a place of- to provide a refuge, a place of sanctuary, _ to provide a refuge, a place of sanctuary, a _ to provide a refuge, a place of sanctuary, a safe _ to provide a refuge, a place of sanctuary, a safe place - to provide a refuge, a place of sanctuary, a safe place to - to provide a refuge, a place of. sanctuary, a safe place to think. did you — sanctuary, a safe place to think. did you ever— sanctuary, a safe place to think. did you ever considered - sanctuary, a safe place to think. did you ever considered that - sanctuary, a safe place to think. i did you ever considered that sort sanctuary, a safe place to think. . did you ever considered that sort of parallel— did you ever considered that sort of parallel provision, _ did you ever considered that sort of parallel provision, parallel- did you ever considered that sort of parallel provision, parallel to - did you ever considered that sort of parallel provision, parallel to the i parallel provision, parallel to the idea that — parallel provision, parallel to the idea that you _ parallel provision, parallel to the idea that you could _ parallel provision, parallel to the idea that you could leave, - parallel provision, parallel to the idea that you could leave, you i parallel provision, parallel to the i idea that you could leave, you could also go _ idea that you could leave, you could also go and — idea that you could leave, you could also go and stay— idea that you could leave, you could also go and stay with _ idea that you could leave, you could also go and stay with a _ idea that you could leave, you could also go and stay with a friend - idea that you could leave, you could also go and stay with a friend or- idea that you could leave, you could also go and stay with a friend or a l also go and stay with a friend or a relative? — i don't recall that being brought to my attention, that consideration, i had an excellent team who cared very deeply about this subject. end had an excellent team who cared very deeply about this subject.— deeply about this sub'ect. and the im act of deeply about this sub'ect. and the impact of the h deeply about this subject. and the impact of the regulations - deeply about this subject. and the impact of the regulations on - deeply about this subject. and the i impact of the regulations on people, as you say, mostly women who were subject to domestic of abuse and violence. i remember theresa may raised this in parliament and was a strong advocate, but i don't recall that being brought to my attention. had it been, i am that being brought to my attention. had it been, lam highly that being brought to my attention. had it been, i am highly confident

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