listening into that press conference was that we also had quite a strong warning about not underestimating president putin. jens stoltenberg said putin has a very high tolerance for casualties, that they have amassed a large missile stockpile ahead of this winter and that they are getting a lot of ammunition from north korea. so it nato members believe that president putin is on the war path and they are not seeing any signs of a possible, imminent peace when it comes to ukraine. because of all of this, the message thatjens stoltenberg reiterated that jens stoltenberg reiterated today thatjens stoltenberg reiterated today was that it is very important for nato to keep supporting ukraine. and how comfortable will those words be to ukraine? as much as it wants vocal support, be to ukraine? as much as it wants vocalsupport, it be to ukraine? as much as it wants vocal support, it also wants military support. is it getting enough of that? that's a very good point. enough of that? that's a very good oint. ~ . ., ., point. the ukrainian foreign minister was _ point. the ukrainian foreign minister was here _ point. the ukrainian foreign minister was here today. - point. the ukrainian foreign minister was here today. he j point. the ukrainian foreign - minister was here today. he was here to discuss nato membership of ukraine but they always would like to get more aid and weapons. what nato is saying is that they are providing kyiv with lots of wide ranging weapons including drones, missiles from the uk and from france, germany and the netherlands have just pledged 10 billion euros to support ukraine. there is more ammunition coming from finland and from the us. and also, nato points to a new training base just set up in romania where they hope to start training ukrainian pilots as early as next year. so what nato members are saying is that they are already giving a lot of support to ukraine. but in reality, there are a bit of difficulties when it comes to this because in spite of all of this support, kyiv has not been able to make the territorial gains some nato members were hoping to see by now. there was all this talk about a great counteroffensive but there was a little unrealistic and it hasn't really materialised and in fact, kyiv has not been able to move the front line very much in the last few months. 0n front line very much in the last few months. on top of that, there are some nato countries such as hungary and slovakia that are not very keen on sending additional help to ukraine. so in spite of whatjens stoltenberg just said there, which is that nato wants to show a united front, there are internal divisions here at nato. front, there are internal divisions here at nate-— front, there are internal divisions here at nato. �* ., ., here at nato. another point that was discussed was _ here at nato. another point that was discussed was ukraine _ here at nato. another point that was discussed was ukraine joining - here at nato. another point that was discussed was ukraine joining nato. | discussed was ukrainejoining nato. how much progress is there on that? well, we had a bit of good news there from jens stoltenberg that was just speaking at the press conference. he said today that allies have agreed that ukraine will become a member of nato. he said that they have provided recommendations on what reforms ukraine needs to implement in order to be able to join, especially when it comes to doing more to fight corruption. that is very good news for kyiv. joining nato is something that ukraine really wants and the ukrainian foreign minister was here today, hejoined the meeting, and he outlined a whole set of reforms that ukraine is getting ready to implement in the hope ofjoining nato. but in reality, the big question is when because as long as ukraine is at war, there is very little appetite for it to join the nato alliance. that is because if ukraine were to join now, that wouldalso —— almost certainly trigger a direct confrontation with russia and everyone here is keen to avoid that. also, nato membership is not that easy. every nato country has a veto and we have seen how complicated that has been with sweden, which applied for nato last year, amid reforms and it still has not been able to join.— not been able to 'oin. thank you very much. — not been able to 'oin. thank you very much. our— not been able to join. thank you very much. our correspondent l not been able to join. thank you - very much. our correspondent there very much. 0ur correspondent there in brussels. thank you for that analysis and bring us up to date on the nato meeting there. we are also monitoring the covid inquiry here in the uk and we can take you back to the uk and we can take you back to the hearing. an testimony by professor damejenny harris. {iii professor dame jenny harris. of course i think the government would say, and i am sort of answering your question indirectly, that they have and that there was clearly a central role in the pandemic, but the point i was trying to make is probably the one i think you are getting at, which is the model was not one that was established well enough to ensure that central control happened effectively and that i think it's one of the points i put in my lessons learned, because it is so critical because of the vulnerability of population. thank ou. do vulnerability of population. thank yom do say _ vulnerability of population. thank yom do say if— vulnerability of population. thank yom do say if you _ vulnerability of population. thank you. do say if you cannot - vulnerability of population. thank you. do say if you cannot see - vulnerability of population. thank| you. do say if you cannot see me. vulnerability of population. thank i you. do say if you cannot see me. i represent — you. do say if you cannot see me. i represent southall _ you. do say if you cannot see me. i represent southall black _ you. do say if you cannot see me. i represent southall black sisters - you. do say if you cannot see me. i | represent southall black sisters and i will he _ represent southall black sisters and i will be asking _ represent southall black sisters and i will be asking you _ represent southall black sisters and i will be asking you questions - represent southall black sisters and i will be asking you questions in- i will be asking you questions in relation — i will be asking you questions in relation to— i will be asking you questions in relation to domestic _ i will be asking you questions in relation to domestic abuse - i will be asking you questions in relation to domestic abuse as l i will be asking you questions in relation to domestic abuse as a| relation to domestic abuse as a public— relation to domestic abuse as a public health _ relation to domestic abuse as a public health matter. _ relation to domestic abuse as a public health matter. my- relation to domestic abuse as a public health matter. my first l public health matter. my first question— public health matter. my first question is— public health matter. my first question is paragraph- public health matter. my first question is paragraph 445 - public health matter. my first question is paragraph 445 ofl public health matter. my first - question is paragraph 445 of your statement, — question is paragraph 445 of your statement, i_ question is paragraph 445 of your statement, i know— question is paragraph 445 of your statement, i know you _ question is paragraph 445 of your statement, i know you have - question is paragraph 445 of your statement, i know you have done question is paragraph 445 of your. statement, i know you have done a few statements, _ statement, i know you have done a few statements, you _ statement, i know you have done a few statements, you say— statement, i know you have done a few statements, you say that - statement, i know you have done a few statements, you say that on i statement, i know you have done ai few statements, you say that on the 16th of— few statements, you say that on the 16th of march — few statements, you say that on the 16th of march 2022, _ few statements, you say that on the 16th of march 2022, public- few statements, you say that on the 16th of march 2022, public health i 16th of march 2022, public health england _ 16th of march 2022, public health england explained _ 16th of march 2022, public health england explained that _ 16th of march 2022, public health england explained that testing. 16th of march 2022, public healthl england explained that testing was bein- england explained that testing was being scaled — england explained that testing was being scaled up _ england explained that testing was being scaled up to _ england explained that testing was being scaled up to focus _ england explained that testing was being scaled up to focus on - being scaled up to focus on intensive _ being scaled up to focus on intensive care _ being scaled up to focus on intensive care units, - being scaled up to focus on i intensive care units, hospital admissions _ intensive care units, hospital admissions and _ intensive care units, hospital admissions and testing - intensive care units, hospital admissions and testing for. intensive care units, hospital. admissions and testing for key workers — admissions and testing for key workers did _ admissions and testing for key workers. did you _ admissions and testing for key workers. did you have - admissions and testing for key workers. did you have any - workers. did you have any involvement _ workers. did you have any involvement in _ workers. did you have any involvement in defining i workers. did you have any. involvement in defining key workers. did you have any _ involvement in defining key workers? i involvement in defining key workers? i presume _ involvement in defining key workers? i presume you — involvement in defining key workers? i presume you mean _ involvement in defining key workers? i presume you mean 2020, _ involvement in defining key workers? i presume you mean 2020, i- involvement in defining key workers? i presume you mean 2020, i think. involvement in defining key workers? l i presume you mean 2020, i think use —— said 2022. not directly. i was engaged in discussions over the pandemic with things like testing for key workers by very much at that stage the technical advisory part of what would work, there were discussions across government and they were right across all sectors and i was in the room, but i wasn't and i was in the room, but i wasn't a key decider. and i was in the room, but i wasn't a key decider-— and i was in the room, but i wasn't a key decider. although you are not a key decider. although you are not a key decider. although you are not a key decider. _ a key decider. although you are not a key decider, as _ a key decider. although you are not a key decider, as far— a key decider. although you are not a key decider, as far as _ a key decider. although you are not a key decider, as far as you - a key decider. although you are not a key decider, as far as you are - a key decider, as far as you are awarer _ a key decider, as far as you are aware. were _ a key decider, as far as you are aware, were those _ a key decider, as far as you are aware, were those domestic. a key decider, as far as you are - aware, were those domestic abuse charities— aware, were those domestic abuse charities and — aware, were those domestic abuse charities and refugees _ aware, were those domestic abuse charities and refugees privatised . charities and refugees privatised for testing? _ charities and refugees privatised for testing?— charities and refugees privatised for testin: ? ., ., , , , for testing? there are two issues, key workers _ for testing? there are two issues, key workers and _ for testing? there are two issues, key workers and front _ for testing? there are two issues, key workers and front line - for testing? there are two issues, | key workers and front line workers and implementation of the testing programme. there was quite a lot of consideration i think in nhs test and trace, again, i wasn't there at the time, about where that risk lay and who needed to be tested. 0bviously and who needed to be tested. obviously there were many use cases and there was responsibility that if public health could identify groups because it will vary in different geographies, that they could direct testing in those cases but i think thatis testing in those cases but i think that is probably all i can say. i will turn to my second and last question _ will turn to my second and last question in— will turn to my second and last question. in his _ will turn to my second and last question. in his evidence - will turn to my second and last question. in his evidence to i will turn to my second and lasti question. in his evidence to this inquiry— question. in his evidence to this inquiry and _ question. in his evidence to this inguiryand in— question. in his evidence to this inquiry and in response - question. in his evidence to this inquiry and in response to - question. in his evidence to this- inquiry and in response to questions relating _ inquiry and in response to questions relating to— inquiry and in response to questions relating to interventions _ inquiry and in response to questions relating to interventions and - inquiry and in response to questions relating to interventions and pis, i relating to interventions and pis, sir chris— relating to interventions and pis, sir chris whitty_ relating to interventions and pis, sir chris whitty said _ relating to interventions and pis, sir chris whitty said he _ relating to interventions and pis, sir chris whitty said he is - relating to interventions and pis,| sir chris whitty said he is entitled and should — sir chris whitty said he is entitled and should weight _ sir chris whitty said he is entitled and should weight up _ sir chris whitty said he is entitled and should weight up the - sir chris whitty said he is entitledi and should weight up the negative aspects _ and should weight up the negative aspects from — and should weight up the negative aspects from a _ and should weight up the negative aspects from a public—health - and should weight up the negative | aspects from a public— health view. he gave _ aspects from a public— health view. he gave an— aspects from a public— health view. he gave an example _ aspects from a public— health view. he gave an example of— aspects from a public— health view. he gave an example of people - aspects from a public—health view. | he gave an example of people who aspects from a public—health view. . he gave an example of people who go into shielding — he gave an example of people who go into shielding before _ he gave an example of people who go into shielding before needed - he gave an example of people who go into shielding before needed and - into shielding before needed and then end — into shielding before needed and then end up _ into shielding before needed and then end up with— into shielding before needed and then end up with loneliness - into shielding before needed and then end up with loneliness andi then end up with loneliness and depression. _ then end up with loneliness and depression, and _ then end up with loneliness and depression, and that _ then end up with loneliness and depression, and that these - then end up with loneliness and depression, and that these arei depression, and that these are clinical— depression, and that these are clinical and _ depression, and that these are clinical and public— depression, and that these are clinical and public health - depression, and that these are - clinical and public health problems. i appreciate — clinical and public health problems. i appreciate briefly _ clinical and public health problems. i appreciate briefly touched - clinical and public health problems. i appreciate briefly touched upon i i appreciate briefly touched upon this with — i appreciate briefly touched upon this with mr_ i appreciate briefly touched upon this with mr o'connor— i appreciate briefly touched upon this with mr o'connor but - i appreciate briefly touched upon this with mr o'connor but given. i appreciate briefly touched upon i this with mr o'connor but given that domestic— this with mr o'connor but given that domestic abuse _ this with mr o'connor but given that domestic abuse and _ this with mr o'connor but given that domestic abuse and its _ this with mr o'connor but given that domestic abuse and its impact- this with mr o'connor but given that domestic abuse and its impact on. domestic abuse and its impact on victims _ domestic abuse and its impact on victims of— domestic abuse and its impact on victims of public _ domestic abuse and its impact on victims of public health _ domestic abuse and its impact on victims of public health issues, i victims of public health issues, what _ victims of public health issues, what should _ victims of public health issues, what should the _ victims of public health issues, what should the government . victims of public health issues, i what should the government have considered — what should the government have considered in _ what should the government have considered in relation _ what should the government have considered in relation to - what should the government have considered in relation to domestic abuse _ considered in relation to domestic abuse when — considered in relation to domestic abuse when deciding _ considered in relation to domestic abuse when deciding social- considered in relation to domestic . abuse when deciding social isolation and/or— abuse when deciding social isolation and/or lockdown _ abuse when deciding social isolation and/or lockdown measures? - abuse when deciding social isolation and/or lockdown measures? [- abuse when deciding social isolation and/or lockdown measures?- abuse when deciding social isolation and/or lockdown measures? i think i -robabl and/or lockdown measures? i think i probably have _ and/or lockdown measures? i think i probably have answered _ and/or lockdown measures? i think i probably have answered the - and/or lockdown measures? i think i | probably have answered the question because in that particular case, in my mind it is foreseeable and we can imagine what is going to happen... we will step away from the covid inquiry and that testimony by professor damejenny harries and we will take you live to brussels again and a press conference by the us secretary of state, antony blinken. that is two thirds of our alliance. allies are increasing contributions or forces and other capabilities. allies are increasing contributions orforces and other capabilities. we are working together to boost our joint industrial defence capacity. we have added our 31st ally finland and the 32nd sweden will soon be among us. nato will continue to adapt to meet 21st—century challenges, threats whether it is russian aggression, coercion from china, challenges in cyberspace, terrorism, the entire gamut of things we have to be concerned about as an alliance. and in fact it's this capacity to evolve that has made nato de world's indispensable alliance for 75 years and the actions we have taken and that we are taking here over the last couple of days are setting nato up to remain that for the next 75 years. the meetings here this week focus on critical steps that we can take to advance nato's revitalisation in time for the washington summit that will take place next year. first, we focused on nato's enduring support and commitment to ukraine. and i have to tell you, listening to all of our colleagues around the table, every single one expressed strong support for ukraine. some are questioning whether the united states and other nato allies should continue to stand with ukraine as we entered the second winter of putin's brutality, but the answer here today at nato is clear and it's unwavering. we must and we will continue to support ukraine. ensuring that russia's what other regression remains a strategic failure is as vital today as when the kremlin launched that will almost two years ago. now, our adverse areas are not standing on the sidelines. most of the drains we have seen used in the biggest ever drone attack on kyivjust last weekend, those were made and supplied by iran. north korea is supplied by iran. north korea is supplied in significant arms shipments to russia. stakes for all of us are clear and again i heard this from everyone around the table, and we must send an unequivocal message, no country will be allowed to withdraw —— redraw borders by force. that is an interest of every single ally around the table. it's an interest of many countries beyond this alliance with whom we have been working since february of 2022. and it's also why we are accelerating efforts to enable ukraine to stand strongly on its own feet, militarily, economically, democratically. even as we are supporting ukraine's fight today, we are helping them build a military capable of deterring defending and against aggression for into the future. the budget request the president made is a demonstration of our own commitment to that goal and we are looking to congress to approve it in the coming weeks. another critical point that is really worth underscoring and is reinforced by everything i have seen over the last two days here, when it comes to ukraine, the united states is not standing alone. we have provided about $77 billion in assistance to ukraine, our european allies over the same period of time have provided more than $110 billion, so we often talk about burden sharing and the imperative of burden sharing and the imperative of burden sharing, when it comes to ukraine, that is clearly what we have seen and what we continue to see. ukraine knows its future is a free, vibrant democracy and its path to nato and the eu depend on its ongoing reform efforts in kyiv is committed to seeing those reforms through. so these were some of the issues that the alliance are discussed with the foreign minister. this is the first meeting with ukraine sitting at its first place at the table. we also discussed its role in promoting peace and security in the balkans. when i started out in the balkans. when i started out in this line of work 30 years ago, front and centre in our concern and the concerns of countries around the world, and certainly in the transatlantic area, the balkans. bosnia and kosovo. 0ne transatlantic area, the balkans. bosnia and kosovo. one thing we don't need is a return to the future when it comes to conflict in the balkans. nato has a critical role to play in helping states in the region make progress on their path to eu membership and to broader european stability. nato has long provided the backbone securing the western balkans, it will continue to do so. the alliance has responded decisively to actors seeking to destabilise northern kosovo. we saw earlier this year, deploy more troops. we are deepening our collaborations as well. so this was another critical part of our conversation. tonight, i'm heading to the 0s/2 ministerial council. despite russia's violations of every single part of the outcome the 50 other participating states have shown determination to make sure the organisation continues to fulfil its purses to advance european security and that is what we will keep doing. from there we head to israel, the west bank and then on to the uae where in addition to participating in cop, we will meet with partners to discuss the conflict in gaza. we head back to the region of the humanitarian pause without negotiate has allowed scores of hostages to be released and to be reunited with their families. released and to be reunited with theirfamilies. we released and to be reunited with their families. we will make sure its people have what they need to get by. looking at the next couple of days, we will be focused on doing what we can to extend the pause so that we continue to get more hostages out and more humanitarian assistance in. we'll discuss with this earl howe can achieve its objective in ensuring that the terrorist attacks of october the savants never happen again. while sustaining an increasing amount of training assistance and minimising further suffering and casualties among palestinian civilians. we'll keep our efforts going to prevent the conflict from spreading and of course we will remain focused on enabling the safe departure of american citizens and other foreign nationals from gaza. finally, we will work to build on the principles that i set out in tokyo a few weeks ago the day after in gaza and define the steps that we had our partners in the region can take now to lay the foundation for a just and lasting peace. i'm happy to take some questions.— lasting peace. i'm happy to take some questions. tracy wilkinson. thank you. _ some questions. tracy wilkinson. thank you. mr — some questions. tracy wilkinson. thank you, mr secretary. - some questions. tracy wilkinson. thank you, mr secretary. he - some questions. tracy wilkinson. thank you, mr secretary. he just| thank you, mr secretary. hejust spoke _ thank you, mr secretary. hejust spoke of— thank you, mr secretary. hejust spoke of the _ thank you, mr secretary. hejust spoke of the strength _ thank you, mr secretary. hejust spoke of the strength and - thank you, mr secretary. hejust spoke of the strength and unity. thank you, mr secretary. he just| spoke of the strength and unity of nato and — spoke of the strength and unity of nato and you _ spoke of the strength and unity of nato and you also _ spoke of the strength and unity of nato and you also said _ spoke of the strength and unity of nato and you also said that - spoke of the strength and unity of nato and you also said that there | nato and you also said that there are those — nato and you also said that there are those who _ nato and you also said that there are those who question _ nato and you also said that there are those who question whetheri nato and you also said that there - are those who question whether nato and the _ are those who question whether nato and the united — are those who question whether nato and the united states— are those who question whether nato and the united states should - and the united states should continue _ and the united states should continue to— and the united states should continue to support - and the united states should continue to support ukraine. and the united states should i continue to support ukraine at and the united states should - continue to support ukraine at the level— continue to support ukraine at the level it _ continue to support ukraine at the level it does _ continue to support ukraine at the level it does. could _ continue to support ukraine at the level it does. could you _ continue to support ukraine at the level it does. could you elaboratel level it does. could you elaborate on that? — level it does. could you elaborate on that? what— level it does. could you elaborate on that? what were _ level it does. could you elaborate on that? what were the - level it does. could you elaborate on that? what were the anxiety l on that? what were the anxiety levels _ on that? what were the anxiety levels among _ on that? what were the anxiety levels among of— on that? what were the anxiety levels among of your _ on that? what were the anxiety levels among of your allies - on that? what were the anxiety| levels among of your allies here about— levels among of your allies here about us — levels among of your allies here about us commitment, - levels among of your allies here about us commitment, given. levels among of your allies here i about us commitment, given the voices— about us commitment, given the voices we — about us commitment, given the voices we are _ about us commitment, given the voices we are hearing _ about us commitment, given the voices we are hearing in- about us commitment, given the voices we are hearing in parts- about us commitment, given the voices we are hearing in parts ofl voices we are hearing in parts of the united — voices we are hearing in parts of the united states— voices we are hearing in parts of the united states who _ voices we are hearing in parts of the united states who talk - voices we are hearing in parts of| the united states who talk about abandoning _ the united states who talk about abandoning the _ the united states who talk about abandoning the ukraine - the united states who talk about abandoning the ukraine cause i the united states who talk aboutj abandoning the ukraine cause an especially— abandoning the ukraine cause an especially political— abandoning the ukraine cause an especially political changes - abandoning the ukraine cause an especially political changes that i especially political changes that may come — especially political changes that may come next— especially political changes that may come next year? _ especially political changes that may come next year? second . especially political changes that may come next year? second if| especially political changes that l may come next year? second if i could _ may come next year? second if i could ask— may come next year? second if i could ask about _ may come next year? second if i could ask about the _ may come next year? second if i could ask about the israel- may come next year? second if i could ask about the israel gaza i may come next year? second if i. could ask about the israel gaza war, to what— could ask about the israel gaza war, to what extent — could ask about the israel gaza war, to what extent did _ could ask about the israel gaza war, to what extent did that _ could ask about the israel gaza war, to what extent did that overshadowl to what extent did that overshadow talks here — to what extent did that overshadow talks here or— to what extent did that overshadow talks here or impact— to what extent did that overshadow talks here or impact talks - to what extent did that overshadow talks here or impact talks here - to what extent did that overshadow talks here or impact talks here or. talks here or impact talks here or have _ talks here or impact talks here or have a _ talks here or impact talks here or have a role — talks here or impact talks here or have a role in— talks here or impact talks here or have a role in the _ talks here or impact talks here or have a role in the talks _ talks here or impact talks here or have a role in the talks here? - talks here or impact talks here or have a role in the talks here? thank ou. have a role in the talks here? thank you. first. — have a role in the talks here? thank you. first. the _ have a role in the talks here? thank you. first, the second _ have a role in the talks here? thank you. first, the second part - have a role in the talks here? thank you. first, the second part of - have a role in the talks here? thank you. first, the second part of the i you. first, the second part of the question first. yes, we had conversations about gaza but in no way to change the focus we have had an ukraine as well as the western balkans, and preparing for the nato summit washington next spring. with regard to ukraine, let me say this again, because it was very starkly clear listen to all our colleagues around the table. virtually to a country, we heard, i heard a strong enduring commitment on the part of alliance member is to ukraine and making sure it had what it needs to defend itself, to retake territories seized by russia, but also to build itself up so it can stand strongly on its own feet, militarily, economically, and democratically. i heard no sense of fatigue or volley back. on the contrary, determination to continue to press forward. there is a good reason for that. i think every ally recognises that this is a matter not only of doing the right thing, it's a matter of self interest. including for the united states. there is a clear self—interest among allies to stand for the basic principles at the heart of the un charter that are being violated graciously by russia because these principles matter to all our peace and security, as we've said repeatedly. if we allow a country like russia to act with impunity to redraw the borders of another by force, to try to determine and dictate the future of another country, if that happens with impunity, it is open season. in any would aggressors anywhere is likely to draw lessons from that. that's why it's been so important to us but also to every country around the table to stand strongly with and for ukraine, and i heard nothing to suggest the country and when it comes to the united states, what i continue to see and hear is a strong bipartisan support in both chambers of congress, for ukraine, and i think you heard speakerjohnson address thisjust the think you heard speakerjohnson address this just the other day, which is very encouraging. so we have work to do to move the supplemental budget request the president made forward, we are determined to do that and we are determined to do that and we are determined to do that and we are determined to do that because it is so clearly in our interest. and congress time and again when we have gone to them has stood up and delivered. and we expect that to happen going forward. again, not because, not only because it is the right thing to do, because it is the necessary thing to do to advance the interests the united states. joe burns interests the united states. joe iturns with _ interests the united states. joe burns with the telegraph. interests the united states. joel burns with the telegraph. thank interests the united states. joe - burns with the telegraph. thank you. there is a growing _ burns with the telegraph. thank you. there is a growing perception - burns with the telegraph. thank you. there is a growing perception that. there is a growing perception that ukraine's— there is a growing perception that ukraine's western _ there is a growing perception that ukraine's western allies _ there is a growing perception that ukraine's western allies will- there is a growing perception that| ukraine's western allies will move away— ukraine's western allies will move away from — ukraine's western allies will move away from helping _ ukraine's western allies will move away from helping ukraine - ukraine's western allies will move away from helping ukraine sustain another— away from helping ukraine sustain another major _ away from helping ukraine sustain another major counteroffensive i away from helping ukraine sustain another major counteroffensive in| away from helping ukraine sustaini another major counteroffensive in a switch _ another major counteroffensive in a switch of _ another major counteroffensive in a switch of strategy _ another major counteroffensive in a switch of strategy that _ another major counteroffensive in a switch of strategy that essentially l switch of strategy that essentially helps _ switch of strategy that essentially helps ukraine _ switch of strategy that essentially helps ukraine hold _ switch of strategy that essentially helps ukraine hold its _ switch of strategy that essentially helps ukraine hold its lines. - switch of strategy that essentially helps ukraine hold its lines. howl helps ukraine hold its lines. how would _ helps ukraine hold its lines. how would you — helps ukraine hold its lines. how would you ensure _ helps ukraine hold its lines. how would you ensure that _ helps ukraine hold its lines. how would you ensure that the - helps ukraine hold its lines. how would you ensure that the next l would you ensure that the next strategy — would you ensure that the next strategy taken _ would you ensure that the next strategy taken by _ would you ensure that the next strategy taken by western - would you ensure that the nexti strategy taken by western allies doesn't — strategy taken by western allies doesn't prematurely— strategy taken by western allies doesn't prematurely push - strategy taken by western allies - doesn't prematurely push president zelensky— doesn't prematurely push president zelensky and — doesn't prematurely push president zelensky and ukraine _ doesn't prematurely push president zelensky and ukraine into _ doesn't prematurely push presidentl zelensky and ukraine into premature peace _ zelensky and ukraine into premature peace negotiations? _ zelensky and ukraine into premature peace negotiations? and _ zelensky and ukraine into premature peace negotiations? and secondly, l zelensky and ukraine into prematurej peace negotiations? and secondly, if i peace negotiations? and secondly, if i made. _ peace negotiations? and secondly, if i made. can— peace negotiations? and secondly, if i made. can i— peace negotiations? and secondly, if imade. can i get— peace negotiations? and secondly, if i made, can i get on— peace negotiations? and secondly, if i made, can i get on former- i made, can i get on former secretary— i made, can i get on former secretary general— i made, can i get on former- secretary general rasmussen's plan that would _ secretary general rasmussen's plan that would see — secretary general rasmussen's plan that would see ukraine _ secretary general rasmussen's plan that would see ukraine be _ secretary general rasmussen's plan that would see ukraine be allowed l secretary general rasmussen's planl that would see ukraine be allowed to 'oin that would see ukraine be allowed to join nato _ that would see ukraine be allowed to join nato but — that would see ukraine be allowed to join nato but without _ that would see ukraine be allowed to join nato but without russian- join nato but without russian occupied _ join nato but without russian occupied territories _ join nato but without russian occupied territories being - join nato but without russian- occupied territories being covered by argo _ occupied territories being covered by argo -- — occupied territories being covered by argo -- by— occupied territories being covered by arco —— by article _ occupied territories being covered by arco —— by article 5? - occupied territories being covered by arco —— by article 5? so- occupied territories being covered by arco -- by article 5?- occupied territories being covered by arco -- by article 5? so what you describe is not _ by arco -- by article 5? so what you describe is not at _ by arco -- by article 5? so what you describe is not at all _ by arco -- by article 5? so what you describe is not at all what _ by arco -- by article 5? so what you describe is not at all what i'm - describe is not at all what i'm hearing, seeing or what we are doing. the nato countries, individually, we have now more than 50 countries, many of them of course nato members, others not, who have been almost from day one fully part of the effort to make sure that ukraine has what it needs, not only to defend itself against ongoing russian aggression but to help enable it to retake the territory russia seized from it and that commitment continues. there is no move away from that. we are determined to make sure that ukraine has what it needs, including to take back territory that russia has taken from it. at the same time, there is also and i think this is critically important, a commitment on the part of many countries to help ukraine build a future force that can ensure deterrence and ensure defence against aggression going forward. and that's critically important. coupled with the efforts we are making in other areas for example to generate investment in ukraine so it's generate investment in ukraine so its economy can continue to grow, and build, it has resources of its own, as well as making sure it is advancing on reforms to strengthen its democracy, which will be tremendously facilitated by the fact that the european union is engaging ukraine on the accession process, all of that is doing two things. it is making sure that ukraine has what it needs in this moment to continue to deal with russian aggression, to continue to work to take back its territory, but also sets ukraine up strongly for the future so it can stand strongly on its own feet, can it not only militarily but economically and democratically. that's the single best response we can make and it also has this effect, the main impediment to resolving this aggression, to resolving this aggression, to resolving this aggression, to resolving this conflict, which nobody wants more than the ukrainian people, in fact the only impediment is vladimir putin. and the extent to which he believes that he can somehow outlast ukraine, at last its people, outlasted supporters, may be defeating the refusal of russia to cruciate in any meaningful way so the work of this alliance, the work of the individual countries that are part of this alliance as well as many other countries around the world, to support ukraine, to help it defend itself, as well as to set it defend itself, as well as to set it up for the future, that's the single most effective way to disabuse putin of this very wrong—headed notion. 0n the rasmussen issue, not focused on that... ~ , ., ., , , rasmussen issue, not focused on that... , ., that... we 'ust going to step away from that that... we just going to step away from that press _ that... we just going to step away from that press conference - that... we just going to step away from that press conference by - that... we just going to step away from that press conference by the | that... we just going to step away i from that press conference by the us secretary of state antony blinken. it looks like he's just coming to a close as well. he was after a two—day summit of nato foreign ministers. a key topic was the war in ukraine anti—pledged continued american support for ukraine. —— and he pledged. he said even though the focus has been on the situation in gaza, he and other nato allies were committed to ukraine, supporting ukraine and they saw it as a matter of self interest. let's return now to the covid inquiry, where we have already heard from the former deputy chief medical officer already heard from the former deputy chief medical 0fficerfor already heard from the former deputy chief medical officer for england, professor damejenny harries. we are now waiting for the former health secretary sajid javid to give his accounts of events surrounding the pandemic. let's go live now ellie price, our correspondent at the inquiry. just bring us up to date on what we've heard so far today. regs what we've heard so far today. as ou what we've heard so far today. is you say, we have just heard the end of dame jenny you say, we have just heard the end of damejenny harries, who was the deputy chief medical officer during the pandemic, some interesting exchanges to bring you. one of them, very significant exchange about care homes. a lot was made at the time about older people being released in nhs hospitals into care homes and obviously had a pandemic spread very quickly through many of our care homes because people with covid were sent and tested back into care homes. we hear of an e—mail that was sent around march from an official to damejenny harries in which it was said that he would have to allow the discharge to happen our patients and to have a very strict infection control, so the nhs didn't get clogged up. dame harries was asked about this today and she basically said this was a statement of reality rather than a policy choice, but yes, as early as the end of march, the middle of march, it was decided that people in the nhs hospitals would have to be sent back to care homes. it became a massive political row at the time because matt hancock the then health secretary said that there had been a protective ring tone around our care homes and uppishly that was often disputed. —— a protective ring thrown. it gives us an insight in terms of how this happened and it wasn't necessarily a political decision, officials were just saying this was not to be something that would have to be done, there were no good options because if the nhs were to be over —— overloaded, you had to make space for people. she also said it is still an issue because of the way the social care system is being run, that staff are underpaid, the system itself is very challenged and so it could still be a problem should there be another pandemic. rind could still be a problem should there be another pandemic. and also conversations — there be another pandemic. and also conversations around _ there be another pandemic. and also conversations around face _ there be another pandemic. and also | conversations around face coverings? that's right. an interesting exchange about face coverings and whether they worked. she seemed very sceptical about advice that was given, whether people should do home—made face coverings, you may remember many of us were told we could sell them together and you could sell them together and you could make a few layers out of an old t—shirt. she said there was a lot of controversy and it was not clear from the evidence whether that would really work and she said her concern at the time would be if you are people to use face coverings, people wouldn't take seriously the other restrictions or indeed the other restrictions or indeed the other measures they should take in place so in effect you are making people feel a false sense of security if they put these face coverings that didn't work very well on. so very interesting medical insights this morning, but we are going to get onto the politics in the next few minutes and then this afternoon. �* , ., , ., ~ afternoon. and the inquiry has taken afternoon. and the inquiry has taken a break but after _ afternoon. and the inquiry has taken a break but after the _ afternoon. and the inquiry has taken a break but after the break - afternoon. and the inquiry has taken a break but after the break we - afternoon. and the inquiry has taken a break but after the break we are i a break but after the break we are expecting to hear from the former health secretary sajid javid stop what do you think he will have to say? is what do you think he will have to sa ? �* , , ., what do you think he will have to sa ? m what do you think he will have to sa? ., say? as you say, he took over matt hancock in — say? as you say, he took over matt hancock in the _ say? as you say, he took over matt hancock in the spring _ say? as you say, he took over matt hancock in the spring of— say? as you say, he took over matt hancock in the spring of 2021, i say? as you say, he took over matt hancock in the spring of 2021, so . hancock in the spring of 2021, so the tail end of the pandemic. you will remember matt hancock had to resign because he was found to have broken his own social distancing rules during an affair with one of his advisers. so he left under a bit of a cloud and sajid javid took over. so obviously he will be questioned about his time as health secretary. look out too, don't forget his other role, he was chancellor of the exchequer in the early part of 2020. he resigned very publicly after a very public row with dominic cummings, was boris johnson's chief adviser. that was a very public row about how his special advisers, whether dominic cummings effectively fired sajid javid's own special advisers. it was a very acrimonious conversation and a very acrimonious conversation and a very acrimonious conversation and a very public row. so i think you have a thing or two to say about dominic cummings and obviously we've heard plenty about dominic cummings andindeed heard plenty about dominic cummings and indeed inner machinations of how number ten worked and how the system of advisers under borisjohnson worked at the time. i suspect there will be plenty to say about that, because he was there on 12 february 2020. we because he was there on 12 february 2020. ~ .. �* because he was there on 12 february 2020. ~ �* ., because he was there on 12 february 2020.~ �* ., , because he was there on 12 february 2020. .,, ,. ,., 2020. we can't now see pictures from the inquiry. — 2020. we can't now see pictures from the inquiry. sajid _ 2020. we can't now see pictures from the inquiry, sajid javid _ 2020. we can't now see pictures from the inquiry, sajid javid is _ 2020. we can't now see pictures from the inquiry, sajid javid is being - the inquiry, sajid javid is being sworn in. we'rejust going to the inquiry, sajid javid is being sworn in. we're just going to cross live to the inquiry listen to what he has to say. live to the inquiry listen to what he has to say-— live to the inquiry listen to what he has to say. assisting the inquiry toda . in he has to say. assisting the inquiry today. in relation _ he has to say. assisting the inquiry today. in relation to _ he has to say. assisting the inquiry today. in relation to that, - he has to say. assisting the inquiry today. in relation to that, can i - today. in relation to that, can i ask you — today. in relation to that, can i ask you keep— today. in relation to that, can i ask you keep your _ today. in relation to that, can i ask you keep your voice - today. in relation to that, can i ask you keep your voice up - today. in relation to that, can ii ask you keep your voice up and today. in relation to that, can i i ask you keep your voice up and as you may— ask you keep your voice up and as you may know. _ ask you keep your voice up and as you may know, transcript - ask you keep your voice up and as you may know, transcript is- ask you keep your voice up and as you may know, transcript is beingl you may know, transcript is being made _ you may know, transcript is being made of _ you may know, transcript is being made of the — you may know, transcript is being made of the hearing, _ you may know, transcript is being made of the hearing, so- you may know, transcript is being made of the hearing, so it - you may know, transcript is being made of the hearing, so it may. you may know, transcript is being| made of the hearing, so it may be that i_ made of the hearing, so it may be that i ask— made of the hearing, so it may be that task you _ made of the hearing, so it may be that i ask you to _ made of the hearing, so it may be that i ask you to slow— made of the hearing, so it may be that i ask you to slow down, - made of the hearing, so it may be that i ask you to slow down, but l made of the hearing, so it may be that i ask you to slow down, but if you can _ that i ask you to slow down, but if you can approach _ that i ask you to slow down, but if you can approach this _ that i ask you to slow down, but if you can approach this with - that i ask you to slow down, but if you can approach this with that. that i ask you to slow down, but if you can approach this with that in| you can approach this with that in mind _ you can approach this with that in mind in_ you can approach this with that in mind in terms— you can approach this with that in mind in terms of— you can approach this with that in mind in terms of your— you can approach this with that in mind in terms of your tempo - you can approach this with that in mind in terms of your tempo and| mind in terms of your tempo and speed _ mind in terms of your tempo and speed if— mind in terms of your tempo and speed. ifyou're _ mind in terms of your tempo and speed. if you're not— mind in terms of your tempo and speed. if you're not clear- mind in terms of your tempo and speed. if you're not clearany- mind in terms of your tempo and speed. if you're not clear any ofl speed. if you're not clear any of the questions _ speed. if you're not clear any of the questions i _ speed. if you're not clear any of the questions i ask— speed. if you're not clear any of the questions i ask what - speed. if you're not clear any of the questions i ask what you . speed. if you're not clear any of. the questions i ask what you need them _ the questions i ask what you need them to— the questions i ask what you need them to be — the questions i ask what you need them to be repeated, _ the questions i ask what you need them to be repeated, please - the questions i ask what you need them to be repeated, please let. the questions i ask what you need l them to be repeated, please let me know _ them to be repeated, please let me know and _ them to be repeated, please let me know and i— them to be repeated, please let me know and i will— them to be repeated, please let me know and i will do _ them to be repeated, please let me know and i will do so. _ them to be repeated, please let me know and i will do so. and - them to be repeated, please let me know and i will do so. and again, i them to be repeated, please let me| know and i will do so. and again, we anticipate _ know and i will do so. and again, we anticipate we — know and i will do so. and again, we anticipate we will— know and i will do so. and again, we anticipate we will go _ know and i will do so. and again, we anticipate we will go for— know and i will do so. and again, we anticipate we will go for lunch - know and i will do so. and again, we anticipate we will go for lunch at - anticipate we will go for lunch at approximately— anticipate we will go for lunch at approximately one _ anticipate we will go for lunch at approximately one o'clock. - anticipate we will go for lunch at approximately one o'clock. he . approximately one o'clock. he provided — approximately one o'clock. he provided a _ approximately one o'clock. he provided a witness _ approximately one o'clock. he provided a witness statementl approximately one o'clock. he l provided a witness statement to approximately one o'clock. he - provided a witness statement to the inquiry, _ provided a witness statement to the inquiry, that's— provided a witness statement to the inquiry, that's dated _ provided a witness statement to the inquiry, that's dated the _ provided a witness statement to the inquiry, that's dated the 18th - provided a witness statement to the inquiry, that's dated the 18th of - inquiry, that's dated the 18th of 0ctoher— inquiry, that's dated the 18th of october of— inquiry, that's dated the 18th of october of this— inquiry, that's dated the 18th of october of this year. _ inquiry, that's dated the 18th of october of this year. it - inquiry, that's dated the 18th of october of this year. it runs - inquiry, that's dated the 18th of october of this year. it runs to i october of this year. it runs to some — october of this year. it runs to some 46— october of this year. it runs to some 46 pages— october of this year. it runs to some 46 pages and _ october of this year. it runs to some 46 pages and it - october of this year. it runs to some 46 pages and it contains october of this year. it runs to i some 46 pages and it contains a declaration— some 46 pages and it contains a declaration of— some 46 pages and it contains a declaration of truth, _ some 46 pages and it contains a declaration of truth, is - some 46 pages and it contains a declaration of truth, is that - some 46 pages and it contains a i declaration of truth, is that right? thats— declaration of truth, is that right? that's correct _ declaration of truth, is that right? that's correct. if— declaration of truth, is that right? that's correct. if i _ declaration of truth, is that right? that's correct.— that's correct. if i can 'ust turn briefl , that's correct. if i can 'ust turn briefly. if i that's correct. if i can 'ust turn briefly. if r h that's correct. if i can 'ust turn briefly, ifi may, _ that's correct. if i can 'ust turn briefly, if i may, to _ that's correct. if i can just turn briefly, if i may, to your - briefly, if i may, to your background. _ briefly, if i may, to your background. in - briefly, if i may, to your background. in terms i briefly, if i may, to your background. in terms of briefly, if i may, to your- background. in terms of your briefly, if i may, to your— background. in terms of your current role, _ background. in terms of your current role, you _ background. in terms of your current role, you are — background. in terms of your current role, you are currently _ background. in terms of your current role, you are currently a _ background. in terms of your current role, you are currently a backbench i role, you are currently a backbench mp, role, you are currently a backbench mp. a _ role, you are currently a backbench mp. a member— role, you are currently a backbench mp, a member of— role, you are currently a backbench mp, a member of parliament - role, you are currently a backbench mp, a member of parliament for. mp, a member of parliament for bromsgrove. _ mp, a member of parliament for bromsgrove, correct? _ mp, a member of parliament for bromsgrove, correct? that- mp, a member of parliament for bromsgrove, correct?— bromsgrove, correct? that is correct. you've _ bromsgrove, correct? that is correct. you've been - bromsgrove, correct? that is} correct. you've been involved bromsgrove, correct? that is i correct. you've been involved in olitics correct. you've been involved in politics for _ correct. you've been involved in politics for quite _ correct. you've been involved in politics for quite some - correct. you've been involved in politics for quite some time. - correct. you've been involved in i politics for quite some time. first etected _ politics for quite some time. first etected back— politics for quite some time. first elected back in _ politics for quite some time. first elected back in 2010. _ politics for quite some time. first elected back in 2010. that - politics for quite some time. first elected back in 2010.— elected back in 2010. that is correct. elected back in 2010. that is correct- if — elected back in 2010. that is correct. if it _ elected back in 2010. that is correct. if it is _ elected back in 2010. that is correct. if it is possible, - elected back in 2010. that is} correct. if it is possible, may elected back in 2010. that is l correct. if it is possible, mayi correct. if it is possible, may i say correct. if it is possible, may i say a — correct. if it is possible, may i say a few _ correct. if it is possible, may i say a few words of the star before we get _ say a few words of the star before we get into — say a few words of the star before we get into the questions, just for a few— we get into the questions, just for a few seconds? first of all, are you for the _ a few seconds? first of all, are you for the opportunity for appearing in front of— for the opportunity for appearing in front of the inquiry, i fully support_ front of the inquiry, i fully support the work of the inquiry. the impact _ support the work of the inquiry. the impact of— support the work of the inquiry. the impact of the pandemic was of course unprecedented in our country and across— unprecedented in our country and across the — unprecedented in our country and across the world and sadly, many people _ across the world and sadly, many people lost their lives and many other— people lost their lives and many other loved ones are still grieving, i other loved ones are still grieving, i know— other loved ones are still grieving, i know some of them are here today as wett~ _ i know some of them are here today as wett~ i_ i know some of them are here today as well. i will probably never fully understand the scale of their grief but i sincerely hope that this inquiry— but i sincerely hope that this inquiry gets to the bottom of what happened in our country at the time and that— happened in our country at the time and that is— happened in our country at the time and that is a — happened in our country at the time and that is a country we learn tessohs — and that is a country we learn lessons from it so that if there is another— lessons from it so that if there is another time, we lessons from it so that if there is anothertime, we are lessons from it so that if there is another time, we are so much better prepared _ another time, we are so much better prepared. thank you.— prepared. thank you. thank you. indeed, prepared. thank you. thank you. indeed. we _ prepared. thank you. thank you. indeed, we are _ prepared. thank you. thank you. indeed, we are concerned - prepared. thank you. thank you. indeed, we are concerned today| prepared. thank you. thank you. - indeed, we are concerned today with the role _ indeed, we are concerned today with the role you — indeed, we are concerned today with the role you played _ indeed, we are concerned today with the role you played firstly— indeed, we are concerned today with the role you played firstly as - the role you played firstly as chahcettor _ the role you played firstly as chancellor during _ the role you played firstly as chancellor during the - the role you played firstly as - chancellor during the pandemic, that's— chancellor during the pandemic, that's the — chancellor during the pandemic, that's the very _ chancellor during the pandemic, that's the very outset _ chancellor during the pandemic, that's the very outset of - chancellor during the pandemic, that's the very outset of the - that's the very outset of the pandemic, _ that's the very outset of the pandemic, until— that's the very outset of the pandemic, until the - that's the very outset of the pandemic, until the 13th - that's the very outset of the pandemic, until the 13th ofi that's the very outset of the - pandemic, until the 13th of february of 2020, _ pandemic, until the 13th of february of 2020, then— pandemic, until the 13th of february of 2020, then subsequently- pandemic, until the 13th of february of 2020, then subsequently when i pandemic, until the 13th of february. of 2020, then subsequently when you came back— of 2020, then subsequently when you came back into— of 2020, then subsequently when you came back into government _ of 2020, then subsequently when you came back into government as - of 2020, then subsequently when you came back into government as the - came back into government as the secretary— came back into government as the secretary of — came back into government as the secretary of state _ came back into government as the secretary of state for _ came back into government as the secretary of state for health - came back into government as the secretary of state for health and i secretary of state for health and social _ secretary of state for health and social care — secretary of state for health and social care in _ secretary of state for health and social care in june _ secretary of state for health and social care injune 2021. - secretary of state for health and social care in june 2021. ticketsl social care injune 2021. tickets are back— social care injune 2021. tickets are back into— social care injune 2021. tickets are back into that, _ social care injune 2021. tickets are back into that, you've - social care in june 2021. tickets i are back into that, you've occupied are back into that, you've occupied a number— are back into that, you've occupied a number of— are back into that, you've occupied a number of cabinet _ are back into that, you've occupied a number of cabinet roles - are back into that, you've occupied a number of cabinet roles within . a number of cabinet roles within government _ a number of cabinet roles within government. first _ a number of cabinet roles within government. first dating - a number of cabinet roles within government. first dating from . a number of cabinet roles within - government. first dating from 2014, is that— government. first dating from 2014, is that right? — government. first dating from 2014, is that right?— government. first dating from 2014, is that right? yes. you _ government. first dating from 2014, is that right? yes. you were - is that right? yes. you were secretary — is that right? yes. you were secretary of _ is that right? yes. you were secretary of state _ is that right? yes. you were secretary of state for - is that right?“ you were i secretary of state for culture, media — secretary of state for culture, media and _ secretary of state for culture, media and sport, _ secretary of state for culture, media and sport, and - secretary of state for culture, | media and sport, and minister secretary of state for culture, - media and sport, and minister for equalities — media and sport, and minister for equalities. that— media and sport, and minister for equalities. that continued - media and sport, and minister for| equalities. that continued through various— equalities. that continued through various components, _ equalities. that continued through various components, secretary - equalities. that continued through various components, secretary of| various components, secretary of state _ various components, secretary of state for — various components, secretary of state for business, _ various components, secretary of state for business, innovation - various components, secretary ofi state for business, innovation and skills, _ state for business, innovation and skills, secretary— state for business, innovation and skills, secretary of— state for business, innovation and skills, secretary of state - state for business, innovation and skills, secretary of state for- skills, secretary of state for housing, _ skills, secretary of state for housing, communities - skills, secretary of state for housing, communities and i skills, secretary of state for- housing, communities and local government. _ housing, communities and local government, home _ housing, communities and local government, home secretary, i housing, communities and local- government, home secretary, then as we've _ government, home secretary, then as we've heard. _ government, home secretary, then as we've heard. he — government, home secretary, then as we've heard, he moved _ government, home secretary, then as we've heard, he moved into— government, home secretary, then as we've heard, he moved into your- we've heard, he moved into your position— we've heard, he moved into your position as — we've heard, he moved into your position as chancellor. _ we've heard, he moved into your position as chancellor. is - we've heard, he moved into your position as chancellor. is it - we've heard, he moved into your position as chancellor. is it fair. position as chancellor. is it fair to say— position as chancellor. is it fair to say you _ position as chancellor. is it fair to say you had _ position as chancellor. is it fair to say you had significant - to say you had significant involvement _ to say you had significant involvement in _ to say you had significant involvement in cabinet? i to say you had significant involvement in cabinet? to say you had significant - involvement in cabinet? yes. and indeed even _ involvement in cabinet? and indeed even bore before you involvement in cabinet?“ and i indeed even bore before you became involvement in cabinet?“ and - indeed even bore before you became a cabinet _ indeed even bore before you became a cabinet minister— indeed even bore before you became a cabinet minister you _ indeed even bore before you became a cabinet minister you are _ indeed even bore before you became a cabinet minister you are close - indeed even bore before you became a cabinet minister you are close to- cabinet minister you are close to working — cabinet minister you are close to working alongside _ cabinet minister you are close to working alongside other- cabinet minister you are close to working alongside other cabinetl working alongside other cabinet ministers — working alongside other cabinet ministers occupying _ working alongside other cabinet ministers occupying great - working alongside other cabineti ministers occupying great offices working alongside other cabinet. ministers occupying great offices of state? _ ministers occupying great offices of state? , ., ,., ., state? yes, i had some 'unior ministerrarfi state? yes, i had some 'unior ministerial positions. h state? yes, i had somejunior ministerial positions. you - state? yes, i had somejunior ministerial positions. you are | state? yes, i had somejunior. ministerial positions. you are in cabinet under _ ministerial positions. you are in cabinet under different - ministerial positions. you are in cabinet under different prime i cabinet under different prime ministers _ cabinet under different prime ministers including _ cabinet under different prime ministers including david - cabinet under different prime - ministers including david cameron and theresa — ministers including david cameron and theresa may? _ ministers including david cameron and theresa may?— ministers including david cameron and theresa may? yes. and - ministers including david cameron and theresa may? yes. and a - ministers including david cameron - and theresa may? yes. and a number of crises and theresa may? and a number of crises including and theresa may?“ and a number of crises including rainfall— and theresa may?“ and a number of crises including rainfall and - and theresa may?“ and a number of crises including rainfall and the - of crises including rainfall and the satishury— of crises including rainfall and the salisbury poisonings? _ of crises including rainfall and the salisbury poisonings? yes. - of crises including rainfall and the salisbury poisonings? yes. in - of crises including rainfall and the . salisbury poisonings? yes. in terms of those salisbury poisonings? in terms of those periods of salisbury poisonings?“ in terms of those periods of decision—making as opposed — of those periods of decision—making as opposed to — of those periods of decision—making as opposed to when _ of those periods of decision—making as opposed to when you _ of those periods of decision—making as opposed to when you are - as opposed to when you are subsequently— as opposed to when you are subsequently secretary - as opposed to when you are subsequently secretary of l as opposed to when you are - subsequently secretary of state, can you explain — subsequently secretary of state, can you explain that _ subsequently secretary of state, can you explain that the _ subsequently secretary of state, can you explain that the latter— subsequently secretary of state, can you explain that the latter period - you explain that the latter period was the — you explain that the latter period was the most _ you explain that the latter period was the most intense _ you explain that the latter period was the most intense period - you explain that the latter period was the most intense period of. was the most intense period of decision—making _ was the most intense period of decision—making in— was the most intense period of decision—making in your- was the most intense period of. decision—making in your career? thats— decision—making in your career? that's correct _ decision-making in your career? that's correct.— decision-making in your career? that's correct. why do you say that if i ask? that's correct. why do you say that if! ask? not— that's correct. why do you say that ifi ask? not to — that's correct. why do you say that if i ask? not to take _ that's correct. why do you say that if i ask? not to take away - that's correct. why do you say that if i ask? not to take away from - that's correct. why do you say that if i ask? not to take away from the i if i ask? not to take away from the importance — if i ask? not to take away from the importance and — if i ask? not to take away from the importance and the _ if i ask? not to take away from the importance and the intensity - if i ask? not to take away from the importance and the intensity of - importance and the intensity of other— importance and the intensity of other crises or very difficult situations i had to deal with as a minister. — situations i had to deal with as a minister, but i felt that when i came — minister, but i felt that when i came in— minister, but i felt that when i came in as _ minister, but i felt that when i came in as health secretary, although— came in as health secretary, although the first year of the pandemic had elapsed, there were still a _ pandemic had elapsed, there were stitt a lot— pandemic had elapsed, there were still a lot of restrictions in place. _ still a lot of restrictions in place, stilla still a lot of restrictions in place, still a huge amount of concern _ place, still a huge amount of concern over the pandemic, nobody could _ concern over the pandemic, nobody could be _ concern over the pandemic, nobody could be truly certain of what the next _ could be truly certain of what the next course would be it would take on the _ next course would be it would take on the was — next course would be it would take on the was a huge amount of pressure on the was a huge amount of pressure on my— on the was a huge amount of pressure on my department, the department of health _ on my department, the department of health and _ on my department, the department of health and social care, notjust vis-a-vis — health and social care, notjust vis—a—vis the pandemic but also with respect _ vis—a—vis the pandemic but also with respect to— vis—a—vis the pandemic but also with respect to all the other aspect of health— respect to all the other aspect of health care, the nhs of course but also social— health care, the nhs of course but also social care. you health care, the nhs of course but also social care.— also social care. you were a fairly fortunate in _ also social care. you were a fairly fortunate in a _ also social care. you were a fairly fortunate in a sense _ also social care. you were a fairly fortunate in a sense that - also social care. you were a fairly fortunate in a sense that you - also social care. you were a fairly fortunate in a sense that you had | fortunate in a sense that you had experienced _ fortunate in a sense that you had experienced crises _ fortunate in a sense that you had experienced crises before - fortunate in a sense that you had experienced crises before in- fortunate in a sense that you had i experienced crises before in cabinet rotes~ _ experienced crises before in cabinet rotes~ you'd — experienced crises before in cabinet roles. you'd been _ experienced crises before in cabinet roles. you'd been a _ experienced crises before in cabinet roles. you'd been a minister- experienced crises before in cabinet roles. you'd been a minister by- experienced crises before in cabinet| roles. you'd been a minister by then for some _ roles. you'd been a minister by then for some nearly— roles. you'd been a minister by then for some nearly ten _ roles. you'd been a minister by then for some nearly ten years _ roles. you'd been a minister by then for some nearly ten years or - roles. you'd been a minister by then for some nearly ten years or so. - for some nearly ten years or so. during _ for some nearly ten years or so. during that _ for some nearly ten years or so. during that time, _ for some nearly ten years or so. during that time, had _ for some nearly ten years or so. during that time, had you - for some nearly ten years or so. - during that time, had you undertaken yourself— during that time, had you undertaken yourself any _ during that time, had you undertaken yourself any training _ during that time, had you undertaken yourself any training in _ during that time, had you undertaken yourself any training in crisis - yourself any training in crisis management? _ yourself any training in crisis management?— yourself any training in crisis management? first of all, my experience — management? first of all, my experience in _ management? first of all, my experience in government, i management? first of all, my - experience in government, there's not really— experience in government, there's not really any training at all for any aspect of being a minister. you ask me _ any aspect of being a minister. you ask me specifically about crisis training — ask me specifically about crisis training so in general there is no training — training so in general there is no training but the only time, the only exception _ training but the only time, the only exception i — training but the only time, the only exception i would make to that comment— exception i would make to that comment is that when i was home secretary. — comment is that when i was home secretary, there was some training for particular types of crisis that the country might face, which woutdn't _ the country might face, which wouldn't be appropriate for me to go into what— wouldn't be appropriate for me to go into what those might be, but there were specific training for the incoming _ were specific training for the incoming home secretary. | were specific training for the incoming home secretary. i believe ou note incoming home secretary. i believe you note there _ incoming home secretary. i believe you note there is _ incoming home secretary. i believe you note there is also _ incoming home secretary. i believe you note there is also training - you note there is also training potential— you note there is also training potential in _ you note there is also training potential in the _ you note there is also training potential in the ministry- you note there is also training potential in the ministry of- potential in the ministry of defence. _ potential in the ministry of defence, for— potential in the ministry of defence, for example, - potential in the ministry of- defence, for example, available to ministers, — defence, for example, available to ministers, trut— defence, for example, available to ministers, but certainly— defence, for example, available to ministers, but certainly not - defence, for example, available to ministers, but certainly not withinl ministers, but certainly not within the department— ministers, but certainly not within the department force _ ministers, but certainly not within the department force health - ministers, but certainly not within the department force health and i the department force health and social— the department force health and social care? _ the department force health and social care? hott— the department force health and social care?— social care? not within the department _ social care? not within the department of _ social care? not within the department of health - social care? not within the department of health and | social care? not within the - department of health and social care _ department of health and social care if— department of health and social care. .., ., ., , care. if i can turn to the cabinet that was in _ care. if i can turn to the cabinet that was in place _ care. if i can turn to the cabinet that was in place at _ care. if i can turn to the cabinet that was in place at the - care. if i can turn to the cabinet that was in place at the outset i care. if i can turn to the cabinet| that was in place at the outset of the pandemic, _ that was in place at the outset of the pandemic, it's— that was in place at the outset of the pandemic, it's in _ that was in place at the outset of the pandemic, it's in your- that was in place at the outset ofi the pandemic, it's in your witness statement — the pandemic, it's in your witness statement at _ the pandemic, it's in your witness statement at page _ the pandemic, it's in your witness statement at page 12 _ the pandemic, it's in your witness statement at page 12 paragraph . the pandemic, it's in your witnessi statement at page 12 paragraph 37. what statement at page 12 paragraph 37. what do — statement at page 12 paragraph 37. what do you _ statement at page 12 paragraph 37. what do you say— statement at page 12 paragraph 37. what do you say -- _ statement at page 12 paragraph 37. what do you say —— but _ statement at page 12 paragraph 37. what do you say —— but what - statement at page 12 paragraph 37. what do you say —— but what you i statement at page 12 paragraph 37. i what do you say —— but what you say there _ what do you say —— but what you say there about — what do you say —— but what you say there about the _ what do you say —— but what you say there about the cabinet, _ what do you say —— but what you say there about the cabinet, we - what do you say —— but what you say there about the cabinet, we are - there about the cabinet, we are talking — there about the cabinet, we are talking about _ there about the cabinet, we are talking about january_ there about the cabinet, we are talking about january and - there about the cabinet, we are i talking about january and february of 2020, _ talking about january and february of 2020, as — talking about january and february of 2020, as the _ talking about january and february of 2020, as the uk— talking about january and february of 2020, as the uk enters- talking about january and february of 2020, as the uk enters the - of 2020, as the uk enters the pandemic, _ of 2020, as the uk enters the pandemic, consider— of 2020, as the uk enters the pandemic, consider the - of 2020, as the uk enters the. pandemic, consider the cabinet of 2020, as the uk enters the - pandemic, consider the cabinet has less experience _ pandemic, consider the cabinet has less experience of _ pandemic, consider the cabinet has less experience of being _ pandemic, consider the cabinet has. less experience of being government or holding _ less experience of being government or holding offices _ less experience of being government or holding offices of— less experience of being government or holding offices of state _ less experience of being government or holding offices of state the - less experience of being government or holding offices of state the many. or holding offices of state the many previous _ or holding offices of state the many previous cabinets _ or holding offices of state the many previous cabinets thought - or holding offices of state the many previous cabinets thought of- or holding offices of state the many previous cabinets thought of them i previous cabinets thought of them are not— previous cabinets thought of them are not a _ previous cabinets thought of them are not a team _ previous cabinets thought of them are not a team who _ previous cabinets thought of them are not a team who are _ previous cabinets thought of them i are not a team who are well—versed in the _ are not a team who are well—versed in the affairs — are not a team who are well—versed in the affairs of— are not a team who are well—versed in the affairs of as _ are not a team who are well—versed in the affairs of as a _ are not a team who are well—versed in the affairs of as a crisis _ are not a team who are well—versed in the affairs of as a crisis and - in the affairs of as a crisis and you _ in the affairs of as a crisis and you imagined _ in the affairs of as a crisis and you imagined it— in the affairs of as a crisis and you imagined it may- in the affairs of as a crisis and you imagined it may have - in the affairs of as a crisis and i you imagined it may have caused difficulties— you imagined it may have caused difficulties during _ you imagined it may have caused difficulties during the _ you imagined it may have caused difficulties during the pandemic. | you imagined it may have caused. difficulties during the pandemic. if i can difficulties during the pandemic. if i can touch — difficulties during the pandemic. if i can touch for _ difficulties during the pandemic. if i can touch for a _ difficulties during the pandemic. if i can touch for a moment... - difficulties during the pandemic. if i can touch for a moment... when| difficulties during the pandemic. if- i can touch for a moment... when you say they— i can touch for a moment... when you say they had _ i can touch for a moment... when you say they had less _ i can touch for a moment... when you say they had less experience - i can touch for a moment... when you say they had less experience of- say they had less experience of government. _ say they had less experience of government, how— say they had less experience of government, how did _ say they had less experience of government, how did you - say they had less experience of government, how did you see i say they had less experience of. government, how did you see that playing _ government, how did you see that playing out— government, how did you see that playing out initially— government, how did you see that playing out initially through - government, how did you see that playing out initially through that l playing out initially through that january. — playing out initially through that january, february— playing out initially through that january, february period - playing out initially through that january, february period and . playing out initially through that . january, february period and more broadly— january, february period and more broadly in — january, february period and more broadly in terms _ january, february period and more broadly in terms of _ january, february period and more broadly in terms of the _ january, february period and more broadly in terms of the time - january, february period and more broadly in terms of the time you i broadly in terms of the time you were _ broadly in terms of the time you were in— broadly in terms of the time you were in cabinet? _ broadly in terms of the time you were in cabinet? the— broadly in terms of the time you were in cabinet?— broadly in terms of the time you were in cabinet? the reason i've said this in _ were in cabinet? the reason i've said this in my — were in cabinet? the reason i've said this in my statement - were in cabinet? the reason i've said this in my statement is - were in cabinet? the reason i've - said this in my statement is because when _ said this in my statement is because when this— said this in my statement is because when this cabinet was put in place, and although there were some minor changes— and although there were some minor changes right after the general election. — changes right after the general election, this cabinet was essentially the cabinet that was put in place. _ essentially the cabinet that was put in place. it— essentially the cabinet that was put in place, it would have beenjuly 2019— in place, it would have beenjuly 2019 by— in place, it would have beenjuly 2019 by the new prime minister boris johnson _ 2019 by the new prime minister boris johnson. obviously there was no expectation or even any thought towards — expectation or even any thought towards a — expectation or even any thought towards a future crisis of this proportion and i think the focus was on the _ proportion and i think the focus was on the commitment of the new prime minister— on the commitment of the new prime minister to— on the commitment of the new prime minister to deliver on the brexit commitments and to take the uk out of the _ commitments and to take the uk out of the european union. they have been _ of the european union. they have been a _ of the european union. they have been a lot— of the european union. they have been a lot of problems in parliament in the _ been a lot of problems in parliament in the previous government before the change in prime minister and i think— the change in prime minister and i think one — the change in prime minister and i think one of the primary considerations was to have a cabinet put together that would support the prime _ put together that would support the prime minister in that process. and that was— prime minister in that process. and that was largely the same cabinet that was largely the same cabinet that was— that was largely the same cabinet that was in place at the start of january— that was in place at the start of january the 1st of 2020.- that was in place at the start of january the 1st of 2020. thank you. and of course _ january the 1st of 2020. thank you. and of course when _ january the 1st of 2020. thank you. and of course when it _ january the 1st of 2020. thank you. and of course when it comes - january the 1st of 2020. thank you. and of course when it comes to - and of course when it comes to february— and of course when it comes to february later, _ and of course when it comes to february later, when— and of course when it comes to february later, when dad—macl and of course when it comes to . february later, when dad—mac we and of course when it comes to - february later, when dad—mac we will do with— february later, when dad—mac we will do with that _ february later, when dad—mac we will do with that in — february later, when dad—mac we will do with that in due _ february later, when dad—mac we will do with that in due course, _ february later, when dad—mac we will do with that in due course, you - do with that in due course, you resign. — do with that in due course, you resign. there _ do with that in due course, you resign, there was _ do with that in due course, you resign, there was a _ do with that in due course, you resign, there was a reshuffle . do with that in due course, you . resign, there was a reshuffle that takes _ resign, there was a reshuffle that takes place. _ resign, there was a reshuffle that takes place, new— resign, there was a reshuffle that takes place, new ministers- resign, there was a reshuffle that takes place, new ministers being| takes place, new ministers being appointed — takes place, new ministers being appointed is— takes place, new ministers being appointed. is it— takes place, new ministers being appointed. is it fair— takes place, new ministers being appointed. is it fair to— takes place, new ministers being appointed. is it fair to say- takes place, new ministers being appointed. is it fair to say you i takes place, new ministers being| appointed. is it fair to say you are one of— appointed. is it fair to say you are one of the — appointed. is it fair to say you are one of the most _ appointed. is it fair to say you are one of the most experienced - one of the most experienced ministers _ one of the most experienced ministers at _ one of the most experienced ministers at that _ one of the most experienced ministers at that time - one of the most experienced ministers at that time in - one of the most experienced - ministers at that time in january and february— ministers at that time in january and february of _ ministers at that time in january and february of 2020 _ ministers at that time in january and february of 2020 within - ministers at that time in january - and february of 2020 within cabinet? that would _ and february of 2020 within cabinet? that would be — and february of 2020 within cabinet? that would be fair, _ and february of 2020 within cabinet? that would be fair, yes. _ and february of 2020 within cabinet? that would be fair, yes. what- and february of 2020 within cabinet? that would be fair, yes.— that would be fair, yes. what you also say in _ that would be fair, yes. what you also say in relation _ that would be fair, yes. what you also say in relation to _ that would be fair, yes. what you also say in relation to those - also say in relation to those issues. _ also say in relation to those issues. the _ also say in relation to those issues, the prime _ also say in relation to those issues, the prime ministerl also say in relation to those - issues, the prime minister because my office _ issues, the prime minister because my office was — issues, the prime minister because my office was not _ issues, the prime minister because my office was not as _ issues, the prime minister because my office was not as strong - issues, the prime minister because my office was not as strong or - my office was not as strong or expert— my office was not as strong or expert as _ my office was not as strong or expert as it— my office was not as strong or expert as it could _ my office was not as strong or expert as it could have - my office was not as strong or expert as it could have been, i my office was not as strong or . expert as it could have been, he described — expert as it could have been, he described the _ expert as it could have been, he described the team _ expert as it could have been, he described the team has - expert as it could have been, he described the team has been . expert as it could have been, he| described the team has been too small _ described the team has been too small so — described the team has been too small so this— described the team has been too small. so this is _ described the team has been too small. so this is working - described the team has been too small. so this is working at - described the team has been too small. so this is working at the l small. so this is working at the prime — small. so this is working at the prime minister's _ small. so this is working at the prime minister's office, - small. so this is working at the prime minister's office, why. small. so this is working at the prime minister's office, why do small. so this is working at the - prime minister's office, why do you make _ prime minister's office, why do you make that — prime minister's office, why do you make that observation? _ prime minister's office, why do you make that observation? i _ prime minister's office, why do you make that observation?— prime minister's office, why do you make that observation? i would make the observation _ make that observation? i would make the observation of _ make that observation? i would make the observation of any _ make that observation? i would make the observation of any prime - the observation of any prime minister's office, any premise i have _ minister's office, any premise i have served. as you alluded to earlier. — have served. as you alluded to earlier, have served two other prime ministers— earlier, have served two other prime ministers and that is because i found — ministers and that is because i found certainly from someone, especially when i first came from the private sector into government, found _ the private sector into government, found myself being quite surprised at how _ found myself being quite surprised at how small a team the prime minister— at how small a team the prime minister typically has in terms of, there _ minister typically has in terms of, there is— minister typically has in terms of, there is too— minister typically has in terms of, there is too politically —— but the political — there is too politically —— but the political advisers, a small group, to be _ political advisers, a small group, to be ten— political advisers, a small group, to be ten to 20, maybe 25 but a relatively— to be ten to 20, maybe 25 but a relatively small group given the response ability of the prime minister, the civil service team is also relatively small compared to individual— also relatively small compared to individual departments. there will undoubtedly then have an impact on the prime _ undoubtedly then have an impact on the prime minister and undoubtedly then have an impact on the prime ministerand his undoubtedly then have an impact on the prime minister and his or her team _ the prime minister and his or her team to — the prime minister and his or her team to be — the prime minister and his or her team to be able to deliver on the commitments of the government of the day. commitments of the government of the day do— commitments of the government of the da . , ., , ., commitments of the government of the day. do you see that as one of the structural deficits _ day. do you see that as one of the structural deficits within _ day. do you see that as one of the structural deficits within the - day. do you see that as one of the structural deficits within the setup i structural deficits within the setup of number— structural deficits within the setup of numberten? _ structural deficits within the setup of numberten? [— structural deficits within the setup of number ten?— of number ten? i think it's an issue. of number ten? i think it's an issue- it _ of number ten? i think it's an issue. it has _ of number ten? i think it's an issue. it has been _ of number ten? i think it's an issue. it has been said, - of number ten? i think it's an issue. it has been said, otheri issue. it has been said, other people — issue. it has been said, other people have discussed this similar situation. — people have discussed this similar situation, they might say there is the cabinet office and then there is the cabinet office and then there is the minister leading the cabinet office. — the minister leading the cabinet office, the cabinet office is there to help _ office, the cabinet office is there to help coordinate initiatives across — to help coordinate initiatives across government, to support the prime — across government, to support the prime minister with his or her priorities _ prime minister with his or her priorities. but then the cabinet office — priorities. but then the cabinet office is— priorities. but then the cabinet office is also led by a member of the cabinet and whilst it is a very responsive —— my very responsive to what _ responsive —— my very responsive to what the _ responsive —— my very responsive to what the premise to them to focus and advise — what the premise to them to focus and advise on, but head of the cabinet — and advise on, but head of the cabinet office will also have their own set _ cabinet office will also have their own set of priorities, so it's not the same — own set of priorities, so it's not the same thing as being an extension of the _ the same thing as being an extension of the prime minister 's office. 30 of the prime minister 's office. so there of the prime minister 's office. there is of the prime minister 's office. so there is distinction between the two in terms _ there is distinction between the two in terms of— there is distinction between the two in terms of work _ there is distinction between the two in terms of work and _ there is distinction between the two in terms of work and policy - there is distinction between the two in terms of work and policy they. in terms of work and policy they are developing — in terms of work and policy they are developing if— in terms of work and policy they are developing if i_ in terms of work and policy they are developing. if i can _ in terms of work and policy they are developing. if i can turn _ in terms of work and policy they are developing. if i can turn now- in terms of work and policy they are developing. if i can turn now to - developing. if i can turn now to looking — developing. if i can turn now to looking specifically— developing. if i can turn now to looking specifically at - developing. if i can turn now to looking specifically at the - developing. if i can turn now to . looking specifically at the cabinet and number— looking specifically at the cabinet and numberten— looking specifically at the cabinet and number ten as _ looking specifically at the cabinet and number ten as it _ looking specifically at the cabinet and number ten as it existed - looking specifically at the cabinet and number ten as it existed in. and number ten as it existed in january— and number ten as it existed in januaryand_ and number ten as it existed in january and february— and number ten as it existed in january and february 2020, - and number ten as it existed ini january and february 2020, the outset — january and february 2020, the outset of — january and february 2020, the outset of the _ january and february 2020, the outset of the pandemic. - january and february 2020, the i outset of the pandemic. paragraph 37. outset of the pandemic. paragraph 37~ what _ outset of the pandemic. paragraph 37~ what we — outset of the pandemic. paragraph 37~ what we see _ outset of the pandemic. paragraph 37. what we see here _ outset of the pandemic. paragraph 37. what we see here is _ outset of the pandemic. paragraph 37. what we see here is that- outset of the pandemic. paragraph 37. what we see here is that yourl 37. what we see here is that your view— 37. what we see here is that your view was — 37. what we see here is that your view was that— 37. what we see here is that your view was that the _ 37. what we see here is that your view was that the cabinet - 37. what we see here is that your view was that the cabinet at - 37. what we see here is that your view was that the cabinet at the i view was that the cabinet at the time _ view was that the cabinet at the time was — view was that the cabinet at the time was designed _ view was that the cabinet at the time was designed to— view was that the cabinet at the time was designed to place - view was that the cabinet at the - time was designed to place dominic cummings— time was designed to place dominic cummings and _ time was designed to place dominic cummings and the _ time was designed to place dominic cummings and the prime _ time was designed to place dominic cummings and the prime minister. time was designed to place dominicl cummings and the prime minister as the decision—makers. _ cummings and the prime minister as the decision—makers. the _ cummings and the prime minister as the decision—makers. the goal- cummings and the prime minister as the decision—makers. the goal was. cummings and the prime minister asl the decision—makers. the goal was to centralise _ the decision—makers. the goal was to centralise power. _ the decision—makers. the goal was to centralise power, a _ the decision—makers. the goal was to centralise power, a preference - the decision—makers. the goal was to centralise power, a preference for- centralise power, a preference for the loyalty— centralise power, a preference for the loyalty of _ centralise power, a preference for the loyalty of experience. - centralise power, a preference for the loyalty of experience. you - centralise power, a preference for| the loyalty of experience. you talk about _ the loyalty of experience. you talk about the — the loyalty of experience. you talk about the centralisation _ the loyalty of experience. you talk about the centralisation of - the loyalty of experience. you talk about the centralisation of power. about the centralisation of power and decision—making, _ about the centralisation of power and decision—making, was- about the centralisation of power and decision—making, was that l and decision—making, was that something _ and decision—making, was that something that _ and decision—making, was that something that you _ and decision—making, was that something that you were - and decision—making, was that something that you were privyl and decision—making, was that l something that you were privy to and decision—making, was that - something that you were privy to at that point— something that you were privy to at that point in— something that you were privy to at that point in time? _ something that you were privy to at that point in time?— that point in time? yes, that's how i felt that things _ that point in time? yes, that's how i felt that things that point in time? yes, that's how i felt that thin . s were, that point in time? yes, that's how i felt that things that point in time? yes, that's how i felt that thin . s were, the that point in time? yes, that's how i felt that things that point in time? yes, that's how i felt that thin . s were, the were i felt that things were, they were very centralised. find i felt that things were, they were very centralised.— i felt that things were, they were very centralised. and did not result in other ministers _ very centralised. and did not result in other ministers being _ very centralised. and did not result in other ministers being excluded i in other ministers being excluded from _ in other ministers being excluded from decision—making? _ in other ministers being excluded from decision—making? [- in other ministers being excluded from decision-making?— from decision-making? i think sometimes — from decision-making? i think sometimes it _ from decision-making? i think sometimes it would _ from decision-making? i think sometimes it would have, - from decision-making? i think sometimes it would have, andi sometimes it would have, and obviously— sometimes it would have, and obviously a lot of... i wouldn't have _ obviously a lot of... iwouldn't have been— obviously a lot of... i wouldn't have been privy to all those occasions. but it was clear that in the case of mr cummings, the prime minister had picked _ mr cummings, the prime minister had picked someone that he had decided to trust— picked someone that he had decided to trust with a huge amount of responsibility and power. and many times— responsibility and power. and many times i_ responsibility and power. and many times i felt— responsibility and power. and many times i felt like the key decisions, many— times i felt like the key decisions, many of— times i felt like the key decisions, many of the key decisions were being made _ many of the key decisions were being made by— many of the key decisions were being made by mr— many of the key decisions were being made by mr cummings and not the prime _ made by mr cummings and not the prime minister, in a way that i had not seen _ prime minister, in a way that i had not seen with any other prime minister— not seen with any other prime minister or certainly that i had worked — minister or certainly that i had worked with. what was different for me in— worked with. what was different for me in some — worked with. what was different for me in some respects is that because i me in some respects is that because i was _ me in some respects is that because i was the _ me in some respects is that because i was the chancellor and therefore obviously — i was the chancellor and therefore obviously l — i was the chancellor and therefore obviously i oversaw the treasury and its operations, it meant that it was much _ its operations, it meant that it was much harder to exclude the treasury many— much harder to exclude the treasury many key— much harder to exclude the treasury many key decisions because even if those _ many key decisions because even if those decisions are not directly related — those decisions are not directly related to the treasury's functions, any department, especially if it requires — any department, especially if it requires resources, any regulatory change. _ requires resources, any regulatory change. it— requires resources, any regulatory change, it would concern the treasury. _ change, it would concern the treasury, and i think the treasury is the _ treasury, and i think the treasury is the only— treasury, and i think the treasury is the only other department apart from the _ is the only other department apart from the prime minister's office that has— from the prime minister's office that has to sign off on virtually any policy— that has to sign off on virtually any policy initiative or any policy change — any policy initiative or any policy change in — any policy initiative or any policy change in government, and what's called. _ change in government, and what's called, there is a process often referred — called, there is a process often referred to as the white wrap process. _ referred to as the white wrap process, and the treasury will be the one _ process, and the treasury will be the one department other than the lead department that will get quite involved _ lead department that will get quite involved in those decisions. judge white _ involved in those decisions. judge white ramp. it was hard to exclude treasury _ white ramp. it was hard to exclude treasury mother meant in the context of your— treasury mother meant in the context of your question is that if there were _ of your question is that if there were situations where, particularly if mr cummings wanted something to happen— if mr cummings wanted something to happen or— if mr cummings wanted something to happen or had a particular view on a policy— happen or had a particular view on a policy or— happen or had a particular view on a policy or initiative, i would know about _ policy or initiative, i would know about it. — policy or initiative, i would know about it, my team would know about it and _ about it, my team would know about it and if— about it, my team would know about it and if i_ about it, my team would know about it and if i had an issue with that wanted — it and if i had an issue with that wanted to— it and if i had an issue with that wanted to question it or if i had a different— wanted to question it or if i had a different opinion, it's harder to exclude — different opinion, it's harder to exclude but are so many times i could _ exclude but are so many times i could block it, stop it from happening or at least delayed... we're _ happening or at least delayed... we're just— happening or at least delayed... we're just going to step away from the covid inquiry in that testimony by sajid javid, former health secretary, and also the former chancellor at the beginning of the pandemic. this is crucial testimony. if i just could pandemic. this is crucial testimony. if ijust could point you to the bbc website, we have a live page on the covid inquiry and there you can find all the latest updates, as sajid javid continues to deliver his testimony, and as we hearfrom other people during the inquiry. but let's go live now to westminster and our correspondent who is going to speak to us about prime minister's questions which will be starting in a few minutes. what can we expect this week? ~ ~' ., a few minutes. what can we expect this week? ~ ~ ., ., , . this week? well, i think one topic that is likely _ this week? well, i think one topic that is likely to _ this week? well, i think one topic that is likely to be _ this week? well, i think one topic that is likely to be on _ this week? well, i think one topic that is likely to be on the - this week? well, i think one topic that is likely to be on the agenda| that is likely to be on the agenda prime minister's questions is migration. the government is under pressure on two fronts when it comes to migration at the moment. firstly, how it plans to tackle people migrating to the uk from nonlegal roots, through small boat crossings of the channel, with its plan to send some asylum seekers to rwanda, currently ruled illegal by the supreme court, so the government has been under pressure to outline how it will revise the treaty with rwanda, but also introduce new domestic law is here to try and get around that ruling. secondly, the government has been under pressure over record numbers of legal migration, largely due to increased work and study visas. so i think we can expect some questioning on that today. the immigration minister robertjenrick has outlined the government will bring forward a package of reforms, there are quite lively debates going on around things like whether to introduce caps onto legal migration, whether to raise the threshold on salaries for people who want to migrate to the uk or whether to further toughen up the uk or whether to further toughen up rules on how many dependents people migrating to the uk can bring, so i think we can expect some pressure from labour as well on the government at this prime minister's questions. we are watching live pictures from the house of commons, just waiting for the prime minister to take questions. the prime minister has been caught up in a diplomatic row with the greek prime minister. is that likely to feature today? certainly it is something that some mps, potentially even the labour leader may make reference to. it the prime minister cancelled a meeting with the greek prime minister after he gave an interview to the bbc on sunday where he reiterated a long—standing position that the elgin marbles should be returned to greece from the british museum. rishi sunak and number ten have argued that they had sought assurances before the prime minister came to the uk that he wouldn't use his visit as a platform to raise this particular topic publicly, even if he could have potentially discussed it in private. number ten have argued that they sought those assurances and it was broken. this is disputed by the greek government, who have expressed surprise and concern about the fact that a diplomatic engagement was cancelled over this particular row. the reaction among some tory mps has been critical as well of the prime minister, saying there are important topics like migration which the prime minister was meant to be discussing with the greek prime minister on that meeting. we could expect some reference to that today as well. , ., , ~ expect some reference to that today as well. , .,, ,, .,, ., as well. the focus last week was on the autumn — as well. the focus last week was on the autumn statement. _ as well. the focus last week was on the autumn statement. how- as well. the focus last week was on the autumn statement. how has i as well. the focus last week was on i the autumn statement. how has that played out for the prime minister over the past few weeks? i imagine the economy is going to feature in today's prime minister's questions. certainly that will be something rishi sunak will want to talk about. this is his first prime minister's questions since the autumn statement. he will no doubt be wanting to signpost, particularly the flagship policy announced, the plan to cut national insurance for employees, i think that will certainly be something which rishi sunak will want to talk about, however, labour likely to point out the tax burden over all still looking very high at the moment. we cross to the house of commons. last ear cross to the house of commons. last year scotland — cross to the house of commons. last year scotland exported 19 trillion watt hours of electricity to the uk grid. not only do we pay the highest connection charges, scotland pays the highest standing charges whilst london the lowest. should scottish households be forced to be in the dockin households be forced to be in the dock in the winter to subsidise the uk? mr dock in the winter to subsidise the uk? ~ ,, , ., ~ dock in the winter to subsidise the uk? ~ , uk? mr speaker, as the member will know, uk? mr speaker, as the member will know. standing _ uk? mr speaker, as the member will know, standing charges _ uk? mr speaker, as the member will know, standing charges are - uk? mr speaker, as the member will know, standing charges are a - uk? mr speaker, as the member will know, standing charges are a matter| know, standing charges are a matter for off— know, standing charges are a matter for off gem. — know, standing charges are a matter for off gem, the independent regulator. last week they did launch a consultation asking for views about— a consultation asking for views about standing charges and he will know _ about standing charges and he will know because of geographic factors, the uk _ know because of geographic factors, the uk government already provides an annual— the uk government already provides an annual cross subsidy worth £60 to an annual cross subsidy worth £60 to a typical— an annual cross subsidy worth £60 to a typical household in scotland, but on top _ a typical household in scotland, but on top of _ a typical household in scotland, but on top of that, we are providing support— on top of that, we are providing support to — on top of that, we are providing support to everyone across the uk with their— support to everyone across the uk with their energy bills this year. mr speaker, abigail is four years old. released from hamas captivity last weekend, abigail is an orphan after her parents were beautifully executed in front of her —— brutally executed. to secure the freedom of abigail and some other hostages, israel is taking a huge risk, releasing convicted terrorists including would—be suicide bombers including would—be suicide bombers in prison for decimating a gas cylinder in her car in 2015. hamas also seem to have broken the ceasefire, activating three explosive devices. what steps has my right honourable friend the prime minister taking to prove his steadfast support for israel in its fight against hamas but are that you run back to terror groups? flan fight against hamas but are that you run back to terror groups? cant run back to terror groups? can i thank my _ run back to terror groups? can i thank my honourable _ run back to terror groups? can i thank my honourable friend - run back to terror groups? can i thank my honourable friend for raising — thank my honourable friend for raising such an important issue in my house — raising such an important issue in my house and my thoughts and those of the _ my house and my thoughts and those of the whole house will be with abigail — of the whole house will be with abigail. as i have said before, we support— abigail. as i have said before, we support israel's right to defend itself. — support israel's right to defend itself. to— support israel's right to defend itself, to go after hamas and free hostages — itself, to go after hamas and free hostages to deter further incursions and strengthen its security. we welcome — and strengthen its security. we welcome the extension to pause fighting. — welcome the extension to pause fighting, increase humanitarian aid and release further hostages. this has been — and release further hostages. this has been a — and release further hostages. this has been a welcome first positive step _ has been a welcome first positive step we — has been a welcome first positive step. we will continue also to hold iran step. we will continue also to hold lran to _ step. we will continue also to hold iran to account for any further escalation— iran to account for any further escalation from these groups, as well as— escalation from these groups, as well as continuing to work with partners — well as continuing to work with partners to disrupt and deter iran's destabilising activities in the middle — destabilising activities in the middle east.— destabilising activities in the - middle east._ thank middle east. keir starmer. thank ou. in middle east. keir starmer. thank you- in an _ middle east. keir starmer. thank you. in an effort _ middle east. keir starmer. thank you. in an effort to _ middle east. keir starmer. thank you. in an effort to hide - middle east. keir starmer. thank you. in an effort to hide from - middle east. keir starmer. thank you. in an effort to hide from his| you. in an effort to hide from his failures, the prime minister spent this week arguing about an ancient relic that only a tiny minority of the british public have any interest in. mr speaker, that's enough about the tory party. in 2019, they all promise the country that they would control immigration, numbers will come down, the british people will be in control. how is it going? mr speaker, let me be critically clear, the levels — speaker, let me be critically clear, the levels of migration are far... the levels — the levels of migration are far... the levels of migration are far too hi-h the levels of migration are far too high and _ the levels of migration are far too high and i— the levels of migration are far too high and i am determined to bring them— high and i am determined to bring them back— high and i am determined to bring them back down to sustainable levels~ — them back down to sustainable levels. that is why we have asked the migration advisory council to review— the migration advisory council to review certain elements of this system. — review certain elements of this system, but earlier this year, we announced — system, but earlier this year, we announced the toughest action ever taken _ announced the toughest action ever taken to— announced the toughest action ever taken to reduce illegal migration. the effects of that action are yet to be _ the effects of that action are yet to be felt — the effects of that action are yet to be felt but will impact 150,000 student— to be felt but will impact 150,000 student dependents and forecasts show— student dependents and forecasts show migration is likely to drop as a result. _ show migration is likely to drop as a result, but all we have heard up until— a result, but all we have heard up until this — a result, but all we have heard up until this moment from the honourable gentleman on this topic is a secret— honourable gentleman on this topic is a secret backroom deal with the eu that _ is a secret backroom deal with the eu that would see an additional 100.000 — eu that would see an additional 100,000 migrants here every year. mr 100,000 migrants here every year. speaker, 100,000 migrants here every year. mr speaker, never mind 100,000 migrants here every year. m speaker, never mind the british museum, is the prime minister who has lost his marbles. mr speaker, the greek prime minister came to london to meet him. a fellow nato member. an economic ally. one of our most important partners in tackling illegal immigration. but instead of using that meeting to discuss those serious issues, he tried to humiliate him and cancelled at the last minute. why such a small politics, prime minister? mr speaker. — politics, prime minister? mr speaker. of— politics, prime minister? mr speaker, of course we are always happy _ speaker, of course we are always happy to — speaker, of course we are always happy to discuss important topics of substance _ happy to discuss important topics of substance with our allies like tackling _ substance with our allies like tackling illegal migration or indeed strengthening our security, but when it was— strengthening our security, but when it was clear _ strengthening our security, but when it was clear that the purpose of a meeting — it was clear that the purpose of a meeting was not to discuss substantive issues of the future but rather _ substantive issues of the future but rather to _ substantive issues of the future but rather to grandstand and reintegrate issues _ rather to grandstand and reintegrate issues of— rather to grandstand and reintegrate issues of the part it was inappropriate. furthermore, when specific— inappropriate. furthermore, when specific commitments and specific assurances on that topic were made to this _ assurances on that topic were made to this country and then were broken. — to this country and then were broken. it— to this country and then were broken, it may seem alien to him, but my— broken, it may seem alien to him, but my view— broken, it may seem alien to him, but my view is when people make commitments, they should keep them. mr speaker. _ commitments, they should keep them. mr speaker, i discussed with the greek prime minister of the economy, security, immigration. ialso greek prime minister of the economy, security, immigration. i also told him we wouldn't change the law regarding the marbles. it's not that difficult, prime minister. the reality is simple, he has no plan on boat crossings and migration is at a record high. his policy is that companies can pay workers from abroad 20% less british workers. that has contributed to those record high immigration levels, hasn't it? he talks about the boat crossings, he has _ he talks about the boat crossings, he has failed to notice illegal boat crossings— he has failed to notice illegal boat crossings our down by a third thanks to everyone — crossings our down by a third thanks to everyone of the actions that we have _ to everyone of the actions that we have taken— to everyone of the actions that we have taken that he opposed every single _ have taken that he opposed every single time they were raised. look, no one _ single time they were raised. look, no one will— single time they were raised. look, no one will be surprised that he is backing _ no one will be surprised that he is backing an— no one will be surprised that he is backing an eu country over britain. just backing an eu country over britain. just this— backing an eu country over britain. just this last week he was asked which _ just this last week he was asked which song best sums up the labour party? _ which song best sums up the labour party? what did he come up with? he showed _ party? what did he come up with? he showed his— party? what did he come up with? he showed his true colours and chose ode to _ showed his true colours and chose ode tojoy. — showed his true colours and chose ode tojoy, literally showed his true colours and chose ode to joy, literally the anthem of the european union and he will back brussels _ the european union and he will back brussels over britain every single time _ brussels over britain every single time. . brussels over britain every single time. , , ., time. let me get this straight, the prime minister _ time. let me get this straight, the prime minister is _ time. let me get this straight, the prime minister is now— time. let me get this straight, the prime minister is now saying - time. let me get this straight, the prime minister is now saying that. prime minister is now saying that meeting the prime minister of greece is somehow supporting the eu instead of discussing serious issues? he's just dug further into that hole that he has made for himself. rather than deal with the facts, he is prosecuting his one—man war on reality. that reality is stuck. under this government, a bricklayer from overseas can be paid £2500 less than someone already here. a plasterer £3000 less, an engineer £6,000 less, the list goes on, it's absurd. labourwould £6,000 less, the list goes on, it's absurd. labour would scrap his perverse wage cutting policy. why won't he? adds perverse wage cutting policy. why won't he? �* . perverse wage cutting policy. why won't he? . , ., ., ~ won't he? as i said, we have taken siunificant won't he? as i said, we have taken significant measures _ won't he? as i said, we have taken significant measures and _ won't he? as i said, we have taken significant measures and will- won't he? as i said, we have taken significant measures and will bring | significant measures and will bring forward _ significant measures and will bring forward more and indeed, as the ons themselves— forward more and indeed, as the ons themselves said, more recent estimates indicate a slowing of immigration as a result of the things— immigration as a result of the things that we are doing. but i am surprised — things that we are doing. but i am surprised to hear him now taking this new— surprised to hear him now taking this new position, because i've got to quote _ this new position, because i've got to quote -- — this new position, because i've got to quote —— quote here from a pushy young _ to quote —— quote here from a pushy young shadow immigration mr hu said, he told _ young shadow immigration mr hu said, he told this— young shadow immigration mr hu said, he told this house, that limits on skilled _ he told this house, that limits on skilled migrants are a form of economic— skilled migrants are a form of economic vandalism. who could possibly— economic vandalism. who could possibly have taken such a bizarre position _ possibly have taken such a bizarre position to — possibly have taken such a bizarre position to only their new term? it will come — position to only their new term? it will come as— position to only their new term? it will come as no surprise to anybody that it _ will come as no surprise to anybody that it was — will come as no surprise to anybody that it was him! mr will come as no surprise to anybody that it was him!— that it was him! mr speaker, there is only one — that it was him! mr speaker, there is only one party — that it was him! mr speaker, there is only one party that _ that it was him! mr speaker, there is only one party that has - that it was him! mr speaker, there is only one party that has lost - is only one party that has lost control of the borders and they are sitting right there. and this is a government notjust in terms of, in open revolt. the immigration minister thinks the prime minister is failing because apparently, nobody will listen to his secret plan. the former home secretary as he is failing because of his magical thinking. the current home secretary thinks he is failing. he even took time out of his busy schedule insulting people in the north—east to remember he —— admit he agrees with labour. the prime minister seem to be the only person on the tory benches without his own personal immigration plan. clearly his own side don't have any faith in him, why should the public? mr speaker, it is really a — why should the public? mr speaker, it is really a bit _ why should the public? mr speaker, it is really a bit rich _ why should the public? mr speaker, it is really a bit rich to _ why should the public? mr speaker, it is really a bit rich to hear - it is really a bit rich to hear about— it is really a bit rich to hear about this _ it is really a bit rich to hear about this from someone who described all immigration law as racist _ described all immigration law as racist. who literally said it was a mistake — racist. who literally said it was a mistake to — racist. who literally said it was a mistake to control immigration. we have taken— mistake to control immigration. we have taken steps and we will take further _ have taken steps and we will take further steps, which is why recent estimates— further steps, which is why recent estimates of immigration show it is slowing. _ estimates of immigration show it is slowing. its — estimates of immigration show it is slowing, its white the immigration health— slowing, its white the immigration health surcharge will increase, its white _ health surcharge will increase, its white immigration fees are going up by 35%~ _ white immigration fees are going up by 35%. one of his own members of his front _ by 35%. one of his own members of his front bench said having a target isn't sensible. it's no surprise to have _ isn't sensible. it's no surprise to have people like this because this is the _ have people like this because this is the person, while we are taking all these — is the person, while we are taking all these measures he opposed, this is a person— all these measures he opposed, this is a person who stood on a platform and promised to defend free movement. on their watch migration hasjust_ movement. on their watch migration hasjust travelled and movement. on their watch migration has just travelled and he movement. on their watch migration hasjust travelled and he is giving the house — hasjust travelled and he is giving the house a lecture about targets. he's lost— the house a lecture about targets. he's lost in— the house a lecture about targets. he's lost in la la land. there can be few— he's lost in la la land. there can be few experiences more haunting for the members opposite and hearing this prime — the members opposite and hearing this prime minister claim he is going — this prime minister claim he is going to — this prime minister claim he is going to sort out a problem. first he said _ going to sort out a problem. first he said he — going to sort out a problem. first he said he would get the nhs waiting lists down— he said he would get the nhs waiting lists down but they went up. unabashed by that, he said he would -et unabashed by that, he said he would get control— unabashed by that, he said he would get control of immigration, it has gone _ get control of immigration, it has gone up — get control of immigration, it has gone up. following that experience he turned _ gone up. following that experience he turned his hand to bring taxes down _ he turned his hand to bring taxes down and — he turned his hand to bring taxes down and would you believe it, the tax burden— down and would you believe it, the tax burden is now going to be higher than ever _ tax burden is now going to be higher than ever it — tax burden is now going to be higher than ever. it is ironic that he has suddenly— than ever. it is ironic that he has suddenly taken such a keen interest in greek— suddenly taken such a keen interest in greek culture when he has clearly become _ in greek culture when he has clearly become the — in greek culture when he has clearly become the man with the reverse midas _ become the man with the reverse midas touch. everything he touches turns— midas touch. everything he touches turns tom — midas touch. everything he touches turnstom it— midas touch. everything he touches turns to... it may be the home secretary— turns to... it may be the home secretary can help me out? cheering. rubbish. �* . ~ . cheering. rubbish. �* , ~ , ., rubbish. we'll be prime minister do the country a _ rubbish. we'll be prime minister do the country a favour. _ rubbish. we'll be prime minister do the country a favour. will— rubbish. we'll be prime minister do the country a favour. will be - rubbish. we'll be prime minister do the country a favour. will be primel the country a favour. will be prime minister— the country a favour. will be prime minister do — the country a favour. will be prime minister do the country a favour, one asked — minister do the country a favour, one asked what he is planning next so we _ one asked what he is planning next so we can— one asked what he is planning next so we can prepare ourselves for the disaster— so we can prepare ourselves for the disaster that will inevitably follow _ disaster that will inevitably follow. ~ ., , follow. mr speaker, at the beginning ofthe follow. mr speaker, at the beginning of the year. — follow. mr speaker, at the beginning of the year. we _ follow. mr speaker, at the beginning of the year, we said... _ follow. mr speaker, at the beginning of the year, we said... we _ follow. mr speaker, at the beginning of the year, we said... we said - follow. mr speaker, at the beginning of the year, we said... we said we i of the year, we said... we said we would halve inflation and this government has delivered. easing the burden on the cost of living for families everywhere, but we know his plans. all the way through that, what did he do, back inflationary pay rises? he talked about welfare, no controls for welfare and borrowing £28 billion a year that willjust make the situation worse. he mentioned tax, just this past week we have delivered the biggest tax cuts since the 1980s. for millions of people and businesses. increased pensions and benefits and this week secured £13 billion of new investment for this country. he can keep trying to talk... flan investment for this country. he can keep trying to talk. . ._ keep trying to talk... can i 'ust sa to keep trying to talk... can i 'ust say to the fi keep trying to talk... can i 'ust say to the shadow i keep trying to talk... can i just say to the shadow secretary, l keep trying to talk... can i just - say to the shadow secretary, order! just say to the shadow secretary, order! just a _ say to the shadow secretary, order! just a little — say to the shadow secretary, order! just a little bit — say to the shadow secretary, order! just a little bit quieter— say to the shadow secretary, order! just a little bit quieter police. - say to the shadow secretary, order! just a little bit quieter police. i- just a little bit quieter police. i want _ just a little bit quieter police. i want to— just a little bit quieter police. i want to hear _ just a little bit quieter police. i want to hear.— just a little bit quieter police. i want to hear. , ., ., , want to hear. the government has riehtl want to hear. the government has rightly responded _ want to hear. the government has rightly responded to _ want to hear. the government has rightly responded to the _ want to hear. the government has rightly responded to the shocking l rightly responded to the shocking and unacceptable rise in anti—semitism and we saw extra funding — anti—semitism and we saw extra funding in— anti—semitism and we saw extra funding in the autumn statement. i note that _ funding in the autumn statement. i note that 44% of religiously aggravated motivated offences last year were against the muslim community. yet there was no funding in the _ community. yet there was no funding in the autumn statement to deal with islamophobia. the government's independent adviser role for islamophobia has been left vacant for over— islamophobia has been left vacant for over one year. the prime minister— for over one year. the prime minister knows we discussed these matters _ minister knows we discussed these matters over a year ago yet no action— matters over a year ago yet no action has— matters over a year ago yet no action has taken place. prime minister. _ action has taken place. prime minister, enough is enough with regards — minister, enough is enough with regards to tackling anti—muslim hatred — regards to tackling anti—muslim hatred. will the government finally take action? we hatred. will the government finally take action?— take action? we will not tolerate anti-muslim _ take action? we will not tolerate anti-muslim hatred _ take action? we will not tolerate anti-muslim hatred in _ take action? we will not tolerate anti-muslim hatred in any - take action? we will not tolerate anti-muslim hatred in any form | take action? we will not tolerate i anti-muslim hatred in any form and anti—muslim hatred in any form and expected to be dealt with wherever it i recently met a service that provides support to victims of anti—muslim hatred, who we have supported with over £6 million of funding since its inception and we are in regular dialogue with them. we have also doubled the funding for protective security measures through the protective security for mosque scheme and we will continue to do everything we can to keep our muslim community say. mr everything we can to keep our muslim community say-— community say. mr speaker, in good news for kids — community say. mr speaker, in good news for kids this _ community say. mr speaker, in good news for kids this morning, - community say. mr speaker, in good news for kids this morning, it - community say. mr speaker, in good news for kids this morning, it was i news for kids this morning, it was snowing _ news for kids this morning, it was snowing in— news for kids this morning, it was snowing in aberdeen and when you looked _ snowing in aberdeen and when you looked out — snowing in aberdeen and when you looked out of the kitchen window, they would have been filled with delight — they would have been filled with delight. but for their parents, many of them _ delight. but for their parents, many of them who looked out the kitchen window _ of them who looked out the kitchen window this morning would have been filled with— window this morning would have been filled with dread. knowing that they simply— filled with dread. knowing that they simply can't afford to pay their energy— simply can't afford to pay their energy bills. in that context, can i ask the _ energy bills. in that context, can i ask the prime minister, does he regret— ask the prime minister, does he regret offering no financial mechanism whatsoever towards families— mechanism whatsoever towards families this winter? it is simply not riaht families this winter? it is simply rtot right to _ families this winter? it is simply rtot right to say _ families this winter? it is simply not right to say there _ families this winter? it is simply not right to say there is - families this winter? it is simply not right to say there is an i families this winter? it is simply i not right to say there is an support forfamilies this not right to say there is an support for families this winter. there has been considerable support this year for energy bills and this winter, pensioner households for example will receive up to £300 alongside their winter fuel payment because they are some of the most vulnerable households and its white they get their support at a difficult time. i their support at a difficult time. i appreciate it's difficult for the prime — appreciate it's difficult for the prime minister to empathise when his he guite _ prime minister to empathise when his he quite clearly can't. this isn't a matter— he quite clearly can't. this isn't a matter of— he quite clearly can't. this isn't a matter of energy production. scotland _ matter of energy production. scotland produces six times more gas than we _ scotland produces six times more gas than we consume and around two thirds _ than we consume and around two thirds of— than we consume and around two thirds of our electricity comes from renewable — thirds of our electricity comes from renewable resources. this is a consequence of decades of failed energy— consequence of decades of failed energy policy here in westminster. those _ energy policy here in westminster. those of _ energy policy here in westminster. those of us — energy policy here in westminster. those of us on these benches, we believe _ those of us on these benches, we believe scotland's energy wealth and our energy resource should benefit the people of scotland. why doesn't he? mr_ the people of scotland. why doesn't he? ~ ,, , ., ~' the people of scotland. why doesn't he? , ,, , ., 4' , he? mr speaker, the entire energy rid he? mr speaker, the entire energy grid infrastructure _ he? mr speaker, the entire energy grid infrastructure is _ he? mr speaker, the entire energy grid infrastructure is integrated i grid infrastructure is integrated which brings benefits to people in every part of our united kingdom, but when it comes to supporting people with energy bills, that is why earlier this year we increased benefits at the highest rate on record, is why we provide a cost of living payments worth £900 on top of regular support, and it was right not to wait till the last moment to give people that support, we gave it to them earlier so they would have the security they need going into winter and on top of the money for pensioners, when there are cold snaps, we have cold—weather payments and the warm homes discount providing an extra £150. all of that is the most considerable action taken by any government to help people with their energy bills. the £400 million redevelopment of kettering general hospital is the number— kettering general hospital is the number one investment priority for local residents. the first part of this is— local residents. the first part of this is a — local residents. the first part of this is a £50 million new energy plant _ this is a £50 million new energy plant to— this is a £50 million new energy plant to power the expanded and improved — plant to power the expanded and improved hospital. will my honourable friend please do all he can to _ honourable friend please do all he can to ensure the department of health _ can to ensure the department of health gets space in the ground on time next — health gets space in the ground on time next spring so that we can get the construction of our redeveloped, much _ the construction of our redeveloped, much loved — the construction of our redeveloped, much loved local hospital fully under— much loved local hospital fully under way?— much loved local hospital fully underwa ? ., ., ~ , ., ., under way? can i thank my honourable friend for continuing _ under way? can i thank my honourable friend for continuing to _ under way? can i thank my honourable friend for continuing to champion i friend for continuing to champion the new hospital in kettering. we are committed to delivering of the skin for kettering general hospital and as my honourable friend will be aware, the new energy centre is vital to the delivery of the hospital and we expect that work to begin in the first quarter of next year. the new hospital programme we are working closely with to ensure the plans are deliverable.- the plans are deliverable. three ears the plans are deliverable. three years ago. _ the plans are deliverable. three years ago. the _ the plans are deliverable. three years ago, the government i the plans are deliverable. three i years ago, the government made the plans are deliverable. three . years ago, the government made a commitment to 40 new hospitals and significant _ commitment to 40 new hospitals and significant upgrades to hospitals in most _ significant upgrades to hospitals in most need. but today, many schemes are badly— most need. but today, many schemes are badly delayed. the royal berkshire stuck at the development stage _ berkshire stuck at the development stage with not a single pound transferred for construction. harrogate hospital still waiting on £20 million for urgent upgrades after_ £20 million for urgent upgrades after raac was discovered and there are 25_ after raac was discovered and there are 25 more — after raac was discovered and there are 25 more schemes. will the minister— are 25 more schemes. will the minister why his government is happy to let patients, doctors and nurses suffer_ to let patients, doctors and nurses suffer for— to let patients, doctors and nurses suffer for years and such unfit and unsafe _ suffer for years and such unfit and unsafe conditions? mr suffer for years and such unfit and unsafe conditions?— suffer for years and such unfit and unsafe conditions? mr speaker, we are delivering _ unsafe conditions? mr speaker, we are delivering 40 _ unsafe conditions? mr speaker, we are delivering 40 hospitals - unsafe conditions? mr speaker, we are delivering 40 hospitals by - unsafe conditions? mr speaker, we l are delivering 40 hospitals by 2030, good progress is already being made, and that programme is being backed by over £20 billion of investment. three schemes are already open, to our opening this year and work has begun to prepare sites. it is right within that that we prioritise raac hospitals as part of that, that required a re—prioritisation but that was the appropriate thing to do to ensure safety, but all patients and staff are already benefiting from some of the improvements we have made, which comes on top of the largest capital programme for the nhs in its history, rolling out urgent treatment centres and surgical hubs right across the country. figs surgical hubs right across the count . �* , , , surgical hubs right across the count .n , , ., country. as disturbed as i was to learn that _ country. as disturbed as i was to learn that british _ country. as disturbed as i was to learn that british politicians - country. as disturbed as i was to learn that british politicians are l learn that british politicians are being _ learn that british politicians are being de—backed by the national westminster bank, you can imagine my horror_ westminster bank, you can imagine my honor to _ westminster bank, you can imagine my honor to find _ westminster bank, you can imagine my horror to find that an entire town bakeweii — horror to find that an entire town bakewell in derbyshire dales is being _ bakewell in derbyshire dales is being debunked by the national westminster bank and in the whole of derbyshire _ westminster bank and in the whole of derbyshire dales in the peak district, _ derbyshire dales in the peak district, there is not a bank left. can you — district, there is not a bank left. can you share my concern that as we are the _ can you share my concern that as we are the major— can you share my concern that as we are the major shareholder that the nationat— are the major shareholder that the national westminster bank are ignoring — national westminster bank are ignoring my vulnerable, elderly people — ignoring my vulnerable, elderly people and also my businessmen? it's a bl- people and also my businessmen? it's a big thriving market town. my a big thriving market town. honourable a big thriving market town. m honourable friend is a big thriving market town. m1: honourable friend is right that a big thriving market town. m1 honourable friend is right that all customers wherever they live should have appropriate access to banking and cash services, which is why we have legislated to protect access to cash and the fca is issuing guidance with six to ensure branch closure decisions treat customers fairly. i know there has been assessment about access to cash in her area and the financial services sector will provide a new cash deposit service for her community and also, everyone can access the post office for regular banking services. thank you, mr speaker- — regular banking services. thank you, mr speaker. yesterday _ regular banking services. thank you, mr speaker. yesterday cancer - mr speaker. yesterday cancer research _ mr speaker. yesterday cancer research uk manifesto set out a road map to _ research uk manifesto set out a road map to save _ research uk manifesto set out a road map to save 20,000 lives a year by 2040 _ map to save 20,000 lives a year by 2040. research is key to this and identified — 2040. research is key to this and identified a funding gap of over £1 billion _ identified a funding gap of over £1 billion. cancer research uk told me that excluding research funded by industries, charities fund 62% of cancer— industries, charities fund 62% of cancer research compared to the government's 38%. it is the prime minister— government's 38%. it is the prime minister ashamed of this and what will he _ minister ashamed of this and what will he do — minister ashamed of this and what will he do to address this gap? of will he do to address this gap? (git course will he do to address this gap? course the will he do to address this gap? of course the government must do more to continue to prevent cancer deaths in our country. that is why we are focused on fighting cancer on all fronts, prevention, diagnosis, treatment, research and funding. crucially cancer is being diagnosed at an earlier stage more often with survival rates improving across all types of cancer, including the most common cancers. and through our treatment record, we're rolling out community diagnostic centres everywhere to ensure we can reach those people quickly as possible. can i thank you on behalf of the alt-party— can i thank you on behalf of the all—party group on hiv aids for hosting — all—party group on hiv aids for hosting today's reception to honour the incredible contribution that sir elton— the incredible contribution that sir ettonjohn — the incredible contribution that sir eltonjohn has made to the fight against — eltonjohn has made to the fight against aids. i very much welcome today's— against aids. i very much welcome today's announcement of further funding — today's announcement of further funding for hiv, hepatitis b and c opt out _ funding for hiv, hepatitis b and c opt out testing in hospital emergency departments as a critical step in— emergency departments as a critical step in fighting these diseases. i asked _ step in fighting these diseases. i asked the — step in fighting these diseases. i asked the prime minister tojoin with me — asked the prime minister tojoin with me and indeed i'm sure the whole _ with me and indeed i'm sure the whole house and praising sir elton john and _ whole house and praising sir elton john and his aids foundation for pioneering this work. sir john and his aids foundation for pioneering this work.— john and his aids foundation for pioneering this work. sir elton john has been a powerful _ pioneering this work. sir elton john has been a powerful voice - pioneering this work. sir elton john has been a powerful voice for - pioneering this work. sir elton john i has been a powerful voice for change in the uk and the world and through the brilliant work of his foundation, he has raised awareness of hiv, reduce stigma and save lives and i am pleased this is being celebrated tonight at the all—party group event. the head of world aids days, i would like to commit to ending new transmissions in england and i know the secretary of state for health will have more to say of our recent pilot initiative for screening. our recent pilot initiative for screening-— our recent pilot initiative for screening. our recent pilot initiative for screenin. . ., . ,, ., , screening. relative lack was 22 months old _ screening. relative lack was 22 months old when _ screening. relative lack was 22 months old when a _ screening. relative lack was 22 months old when a car - screening. relative lack was 22 months old when a car rolled i screening. relative lack was 22 l months old when a car rolled off screening. relative lack was 22 i months old when a car rolled off a private _ months old when a car rolled off a private drive onto a highway and hit a wall— private drive onto a highway and hit a wall and _ private drive onto a highway and hit a wall and killed her. private drive onto a highway and hit a walland killed her. her private drive onto a highway and hit a wall and killed her. her parents, south _ a wall and killed her. her parents, south wales police are frustrated no charges _ south wales police are frustrated no charges could be brought in the case due to _ charges could be brought in the case due to a _ charges could be brought in the case due to a loophole. my bill sought in the 1980 _ due to a loophole. my bill sought in the 1980 probe no traffic act but that didn't get parliamentary time. i that didn't get parliamentary time. i know— that didn't get parliamentary time. i know colleagues across the house have similar issues so can i asked the prime — have similar issues so can i asked the prime minister will he meet with me and _ the prime minister will he meet with me and my— the prime minister will he meet with me and my constituents to assist in finding _ me and my constituents to assist in finding a _ me and my constituents to assist in finding a way forward? i am incredibly — finding a way forward? i am incredibly sorry _ finding a way forward? i am incredibly sorry to - finding a way forward? i am incredibly sorry to hear - finding a way forward? i —n incredibly sorry to hear about pal and my thoughts will be with gemma and my thoughts will be with gemma and paul. iwill and my thoughts will be with gemma and paul. i will make sure the member gets a meeting with the relevant minister as quickly as possible. taste relevant minister as quickly as ossible. ~ ~' ., relevant minister as quickly as ossible. ~ ~ ., ., ., , possible. we know the labour party has an aversion _ possible. we know the labour party has an aversion to _ possible. we know the labour party has an aversion to white _ possible. we know the labour party has an aversion to white van - possible. we know the labour party has an aversion to white van man i possible. we know the labour party | has an aversion to white van man but does _ has an aversion to white van man but does the _ has an aversion to white van man but does the prime minister share my concern _ does the prime minister share my concern that according to a daily tetegraph— concern that according to a daily telegraph report today, that labour run westminster council is increasing parking charges for electric— increasing parking charges for electric small vehicles by up to 1800%. — electric small vehicles by up to 1800%, demonstrating that it doesn't support— 1800%, demonstrating that it doesn't support small businesses nor tackling — support small businesses nor tackling climate change. my tackling climate change. m1 honourable friend is right to raise these concerns and it seems labour are penalising hard—working people. ijoined my honourable friend and urging the labour run westminster council to rethink these damaging proposals. i council to rethink these damaging ro osals. ., , council to rethink these damaging --roosals. ., , proposals. i quote, rishi thinks 'ust let proposals. i quote, rishi thinks just let peeple _ proposals. i quote, rishi thinks just let people die _ proposals. i quote, rishi thinks just let people die and - proposals. i quote, rishi thinks just let people die and that's i proposals. i quote, rishi thinks. just let people die and that's ok. this was— just let people die and that's ok. this was reportedly the view of the prime _ this was reportedly the view of the prime minister of covid during late 2020 _ prime minister of covid during late 2020 as— prime minister of covid during late 2020 as reported by the then chief scientific— 2020 as reported by the then chief scientific adviser in his diary. this— scientific adviser in his diary. this came _ scientific adviser in his diary. this came to light last week in the covid _ this came to light last week in the covid inquiry and i was shocked that downing _ covid inquiry and i was shocked that downing street didn't categorically deny it _ downing street didn't categorically deny it. could i asked the prime minister— deny it. could i asked the prime minister today, deny it. could i asked the prime ministertoday, how deny it. could i asked the prime minister today, how is it that people — minister today, how is it that people who were closest to this issue. _ people who were closest to this issue, who he worked with day in, day out _ issue, who he worked with day in, day out at — issue, who he worked with day in, day out at the top of government, how on— day out at the top of government, how on earth did these people get the impression that the prime minister— the impression that the prime minister was the impression that the prime ministerwas ok the impression that the prime minister was ok with people in our country— minister was ok with people in our country dying? fits minister was ok with people in our country dying?— country dying? as the honourable lady knows _ country dying? as the honourable lady knows there _ country dying? as the honourable lady knows there is _ country dying? as the honourable lady knows there is an _ country dying? as the honourable lady knows there is an ongoing i lady knows there is an ongoing inquiry into covid. i look forward to providing my own evidence but if she had taken the time to read the evidence submitted to the inquiry, she will have seen that the person she will have seen that the person she mentioned confirmed that he did not hear me say that and that is because i didn't. the not hear me say that and that is because i didn't.— because i didn't. the 1.3 million mirants because i didn't. the 1.3 million migrants over— because i didn't. the 1.3 million migrants over a _ because i didn't. the 1.3 million migrants over a period - because i didn't. the 1.3 million migrants over a period of - because i didn't. the 1.3 million migrants over a period of two . because i didn't. the 1.3 million - migrants over a period of two years is a catastrophe for britain. it is obvious— is a catastrophe for britain. it is obvious to — is a catastrophe for britain. it is obvious to everyone apart from guilt ridden— obvious to everyone apart from guilt ridden bourgeois liberals and greed driven— ridden bourgeois liberals and greed driven globalists. given that the same _ driven globalists. given that the same kind of people asked timing the stop the _ same kind of people asked timing the stop the boats campaign, or the prime _ stop the boats campaign, or the prime minister bring urgent measures forward _ prime minister bring urgent measures forward to— prime minister bring urgent measures forward to deal with illegal migration and in terms of the bill he promised, will he ensure it is exactly— he promised, will he ensure it is exactly in — he promised, will he ensure it is exactly in the form recommended by his own _ exactly in the form recommended by his own immigration minister? mr his own immigration minister? speaker, i his own immigration minister? m speaker, i am his own immigration minister? m speaker, iam pleased his own immigration minister? m speaker, i am pleased to have his advice and support as in all our measures to tackle both legal and illegal migration. we are reviewing the recommendations and we will bring forward measures on top of the very significant restrictions we have already announced on student dependence and when it comes to stopping illegal migration, i have been crystal clear, we will bring forward legislation that makes it unequivocally the case that rwanda is safe and there will be no more ability of our domestic courts to block flights to rwanda and that is what our legislation will ensure. and that is what our legislation will ensure.— and that is what our legislation willensure. ., ~ will ensure. thank you, mr speaker. in response — will ensure. thank you, mr speaker. in response to _ will ensure. thank you, mr speaker. in response to my _ will ensure. thank you, mr speaker. in response to my friend. _ will ensure. thank you, mr speaker. in response to my friend. to - will ensure. thank you, mr speaker. in response to my friend. to north | in response to my friend. to north last week, the prime minister claimed that the best way to stop children living in poverty is for them to have parents who work —— from stockton north. but over 70% of poor children already live in a home where someone goes out to work. so i will give him another chance. can he explain why reports say that 1 million of our children in 2022 experienced notjust poverty, but destitution? mr experienced not 'ust poverty, but destitution?— experienced not 'ust poverty, but destitution? mr speaker, no child should grow _ destitution? mr speaker, no child should grow up — destitution? mr speaker, no child should grow up in _ destitution? mr speaker, no child should grow up in poverty - destitution? mr speaker, no child should grow up in poverty and - destitution? mr speaker, no child i should grow up in poverty and that's why because of the measures we have taken, 1.7 million fewer people are living in poverty today than in 2010. i would also say to the honourable lady that it is absolutely crystal clear that the children growing up in workless households, they are four or five times less likely to be in poverty. that is what the facts say, that's why our efforts are getting people into work and making sure that work pays, which is why the actions in the autumn statement to raise the national living wage to record levels and provide a significant tax cut will do an extraordinary amount to continue lifting children out of poverty. to continue lifting children out of ove . ., ., ~' ,., to continue lifting children out of ove . . . ~ ., poverty. can i thank you for welcoming _ poverty. can i thank you for welcoming my _ poverty. can i thank you for welcoming my constituents| poverty. can i thank you for - welcoming my constituents john farrington— welcoming my constituents john farrington to _ welcoming my constituents john farrington to parliament - welcoming my constituents john farrington to parliament this - farrington to parliament this morning? _ farrington to parliament this morning? at _ farrington to parliament this morning? at 110 _ farrington to parliament this morning? at 110 years- farrington to parliament this morning? at 110 years of- farrington to parliament this i morning? at 110 years of age, farrington to parliament this - morning? at 110 years of age, john is among _ morning? at 110 years of age, john is among my— morning? at 110 years of age, john is among my more _ morning? at 110 years of age, john is among my more experienced - is among my more experienced constituents _ is among my more experienced constituents. and _ is among my more experienced constituents. and i— is among my more experienced constituents. and i know- is among my more experienced constituents. and i know he - is among my more experienced i constituents. and i know he would want _ constituents. and i know he would want me _ constituents. and i know he would want me to — constituents. and i know he would want me to ask— constituents. and i know he would want me to ask the _ constituents. and i know he would want me to ask the prime - constituents. and i know he wouldj want me to ask the prime minister constituents. and i know he would i want me to ask the prime minister to 'oin want me to ask the prime minister to join us _ want me to ask the prime minister to join us in _ want me to ask the prime minister to join us in thanking _ want me to ask the prime minister to join us in thanking the _ want me to ask the prime minister to join us in thanking the staff— want me to ask the prime minister to join us in thanking the staff of - join us in thanking the staff of covington— join us in thanking the staff of covington mill— join us in thanking the staff of covington mill care _ join us in thanking the staff of covington mill care home i join us in thanking the staff of i covington mill care home looking after _ covington mill care home looking after him — covington mill care home looking after him so _ covington mill care home looking after him so well. _ covington mill care home looking after him so well. but _ covington mill care home looking after him so well. but can - covington mill care home looking after him so well. but can i i covington mill care home looking after him so well. but can i also. after him so well. but can i also ask my— after him so well. but can i also ask my right _ after him so well. but can i also ask my right honourable - after him so well. but can i also ask my right honourable friend after him so well. but can i also i ask my right honourable friend when john comes _ ask my right honourable friend when john comes to — ask my right honourable friend when john comes to downing _ ask my right honourable friend when john comes to downing street - ask my right honourable friend when john comes to downing street this i john comes to downing street this afternoon — john comes to downing street this afternoon to — john comes to downing street this afternoon to try _ john comes to downing street this afternoon to try and _ john comes to downing street this afternoon to try and find _ john comes to downing street this afternoon to try and find a - john comes to downing street thisi afternoon to try and find a moment or two— afternoon to try and find a moment or two to _ afternoon to try and find a moment or two to speak— afternoon to try and find a moment or two to speak to _ afternoon to try and find a moment or two to speak to him, _ afternoon to try and find a moment or two to speak to him, it- afternoon to try and find a moment or two to speak to him, it may- afternoon to try and find a moment or two to speak to him, it may be i afternoon to try and find a momentj or two to speak to him, it may be a useful— or two to speak to him, it may be a useful conversation— or two to speak to him, it may be a useful conversation for— or two to speak to him, it may be a useful conversation for those - useful conversation for those obsessed _ useful conversation for those obsessed with _ useful conversation for those obsessed with the _ useful conversation for those obsessed with the opinion i useful conversation for those i obsessed with the opinion polls as useful conversation for those - obsessed with the opinion polls as i think it _ obsessed with the opinion polls as i think it is _ obsessed with the opinion polls as i think it is fair— obsessed with the opinion polls as i think it is fair to— obsessed with the opinion polls as i think it is fair to say— obsessed with the opinion polls as i think it is fair to sayjohn _ obsessed with the opinion polls as i think it is fair to sayjohn has - think it is fair to sayjohn has some — think it is fair to sayjohn has some experience _ think it is fair to sayjohn has some experience at - think it is fair to sayjohn hasj some experience at surviving think it is fair to sayjohn has - some experience at surviving against the odds _ some experience at surviving against the odds tan — some experience at surviving against the odds. . ., ~ some experience at surviving against the odds. . . ~ , the odds. can i thank my right honourable — the odds. can i thank my right honourable friend _ the odds. can i thank my right honourable friend for - the odds. can i thank my right honourable friend for his i the odds. can i thank my right i honourable friend for his question. i very much hope i have a chance to meetjohn later on. and can ijoin with my right honourable friend in paying tribute to his care home for the incredible care that they have provided? it's great that he is here and i'm sure that everyone will enjoy meeting him later today. mr enjoy meeting him later today. m speaker, the prime minister may already be aware of the exceptional contribution my constituent has made during a 30 year career in our health service. he may also be aware the last six or eight weeks, she has been frantic with worry about her 83—year—old mother trapped in palestine with a number of family members with no way out. will he agree to work with the foreign office and home office during this time to find an urgent way to help vulnerable people out of danger and into a safe place of refuge well we can? once the ceasefire ends, so tragically will the chance of survival of too many people in palestine. survival of too many people in palestine-— survival of too many people in palestine. can i stop by paying tribute to the _ palestine. can i stop by paying tribute to the honourable i tribute to the honourable gentleman's constituent�*s long service and health service i think you mentioned and assure him we are doing everything we can to ensure the safe passage of british nationals out of gaza? i will ensure that the department of foreign office get in touch with him. british nationals that have been registered already with the foreign office have had significant interaction, we have successfully ensure the safe passage of well over 200 already and will continue to do everything we can for those remaining and i will make sure we are in touch with him and his constituent.— are in touch with him and his constituent. ., ,, , ., , . ~ constituent. thank you very much, mr seaker. constituent. thank you very much, mr speaker- thanks _ constituent. thank you very much, mr speaker. thanks to _ constituent. thank you very much, mr speaker. thanks to this _ constituent. thank you very much, mr speaker. thanks to this conservative l speaker. thanks to this conservative government. — speaker. thanks to this conservative government. the _ speaker. thanks to this conservative government, the alex _ speaker. thanks to this conservative government, the alex hospital- speaker. thanks to this conservative government, the alex hospital in- government, the alex hospital in redditch — government, the alex hospital in redditch has _ government, the alex hospital in redditch has received _ government, the alex hospital in redditch has received nearly- government, the alex hospital in redditch has received nearly £19| redditch has received nearly £19 million _ redditch has received nearly £19 million of— redditch has received nearly £19 million of investment _ redditch has received nearly £19 million of investment and - redditch has received nearly £19 million of investment and we i redditch has received nearly £19| million of investment and we are lroosting — million of investment and we are boosting training _ million of investment and we are boosting training places - million of investment and we are boosting training places at - million of investment and we are boosting training places at the i boosting training places at the three — boosting training places at the three counties— boosting training places at the three counties medical- boosting training places at the| three counties medical school. boosting training places at the i three counties medical school. so does _ three counties medical school. so does the — three counties medical school. so does the prime _ three counties medical school. so does the prime minister- three counties medical school. so does the prime minister agree i three counties medical school. so. does the prime minister agree with me it _ does the prime minister agree with me it is _ does the prime minister agree with me it is the — does the prime minister agree with me it is the perfect _ does the prime minister agree with me it is the perfect time _ does the prime minister agree with me it is the perfect time to- does the prime minister agree with me it is the perfect time to back. does the prime minister agree with| me it is the perfect time to back my campaign _ me it is the perfect time to back my campaign to— me it is the perfect time to back my campaign to hring— me it is the perfect time to back my campaign to bring back _ me it is the perfect time to back my campaign to bring back services i me it is the perfect time to back my campaign to bring back services sol campaign to bring back services so that women, — campaign to bring back services so that women, local— campaign to bring back services so that women, local mothers - campaign to bring back services so that women, local mothers can i campaign to bring back services so i that women, local mothers can once again— that women, local mothers can once again give _ that women, local mothers can once again give birth— that women, local mothers can once again give birth in _ that women, local mothers can once again give birth in their— that women, local mothers can once again give birth in their hometown. again give birth in their hometown and all— again give birth in their hometown and all children— again give birth in their hometown and all children can _ again give birth in their hometown and all children can be _ again give birth in their hometown and all children can be seen - again give birth in their hometown and all children can be seen at i again give birth in their hometownj and all children can be seen at the hospitat— and all children can be seen at the hospital no— and all children can be seen at the hospital no matter— and all children can be seen at the hospital no matter what _ and all children can be seen at the hospital no matter what illness i and all children can be seen at the i hospital no matter what illness they are experiencing? _ hospital no matter what illness they are experiencing?— are experiencing? well, i know that my honourable _ are experiencing? well, i know that my honourable friend _ are experiencing? well, i know that my honourable friend campaigns i my honourable friend campaigns passionately for the delivery of first—class health care for her constituents like her, i welcome the investment the alexandra hospital has had in recent years in a range of different services. she will know the reconfiguration of services are of course clinically led local decisions following the appropriate engagement with patients and stakeholders, but i know my honourable friend will continue to make her case on behalf of her community. in make her case on behalf of her community-— make her case on behalf of her communi . . ., ., ., community. in june, the canadian prime minister _ community. in june, the canadian prime minister claims _ community. in june, the canadian prime minister claims the - community. in june, the canadian prime minister claims the indian i prime minister claims the indian government may be linked to the killing of people in canada. now it is reported the us government thwarted a second assassination attempt of the canadian american citizen on us soil. so will the prime minister reassure my constituents who have raised safety concerns with me that this government is taking this matter very seriously and really raise this concern with his counterpart in india? ~ .,~ ., concern with his counterpart in india? ~ ., ., ., , india? mr speaker, i have already made statements _ india? mr speaker, i have already made statements on _ india? mr speaker, i have already made statements on this - india? mr speaker, i have already made statements on this matter, | india? mr speaker, i have already i made statements on this matter, but of course we ensure the safety of all communities in our country, that is the first duty of government and we will continue to do that notjust for the sikh community, but every community here in the uk. iitfut’itly for the sikh community, but every community here in the uk. with the obr and ons _ community here in the uk. with the obr and ons confirming _ community here in the uk. with the obr and ons confirming that i community here in the uk. with the obr and ons confirming that the i obr and ons confirming that the british economy is now substantially larger than they estimated even a few months ago, does my right honourable friend agree that the economy has once again proven the detractors wrong and will he do all he can to ensure that we retain record employment, because unemployment is a corrosive social evil? ~ ~ ,, ~ , evil? well, mr speaker, my honourable _ evil? well, mr speaker, my honourable friend _ evil? well, mr speaker, my honourable friend makes i evil? well, mr speaker, myl honourable friend makes an evil? well, mr speaker, my- honourable friend makes an excellent point. a year ago, honourable friend makes an excellent point. a yearago, not honourable friend makes an excellent point. a year ago, notjust the obr, but the bank of england, the imf and oecd were all predicting we would fall into a recession this year, but thanks to the actions of this government and chancellor, we have growing the economy. you have seen that momentum carry on just in the past week with the announcement of nissan, record investment in the new plant in sunderland, safeguarding the future of thousands of jobs plant in sunderland, safeguarding the future of thousands ofjobs in the future of thousands ofjobs in the north—east and ensuring the transition to electric vehicles. also, the summit we hosted attracting £30 billion of new investment into the uk, which as he said crucially will support thousands and thousands ofjobs in our country. thousands and thousands of 'obs in country.— thousands and thousands of 'obs in ourcount . ., ~ our country. thank you, mr speaker. there are 2,500 _ our country. thank you, mr speaker. there are 2,500 disused _ our country. thank you, mr speaker. there are 2,500 disused coal- our country. thank you, mr speaker. there are 2,500 disused coal tips . our country. thank you, mr speaker. there are 2,500 disused coal tips in | there are 2,500 disused coal tips in wales, _ there are 2,500 disused coal tips in wales, the — there are 2,500 disused coal tips in wales, the government _ there are 2,500 disused coal tips in wales, the government previously. wales, the government previously asked _ wales, the government previously asked the — wales, the government previously asked the treasury— wales, the government previously asked the treasury for— wales, the government previously asked the treasury for 600 - wales, the government previouslyj asked the treasury for 600 million to make _ asked the treasury for 600 million to make them _ asked the treasury for 600 million to make them safe _ asked the treasury for 600 million to make them safe and _ asked the treasury for 600 million to make them safe and ahead - asked the treasury for 600 million to make them safe and ahead of. asked the treasury for 600 million i to make them safe and ahead of the autumn _ to make them safe and ahead of the autumn statement, _ to make them safe and ahead of the autumn statement, it _ to make them safe and ahead of the autumn statement, it sought - to make them safe and ahead of the autumn statement, it sought an - autumn statement, it sought an official_ autumn statement, it sought an official 20 — autumn statement, it sought an official 20 million. _ autumn statement, it sought an official 20 million. but _ autumn statement, it sought an official 20 million. but this - autumn statement, it sought an official 20 million. but this toryl official 20 million. but this tory government— official 20 million. but this tory government provided _ official 20 million. but this tory government provided nothing. official 20 million. but this tory- government provided nothing. runs a conah— government provided nothing. runs a conan taff_ government provided nothing. runs a conan taft has — government provided nothing. runs a conan taff has the _ government provided nothing. runs a conan taff has the most _ government provided nothing. runs a conan taff has the most risk- government provided nothing. runs a conan taff has the most risk of- government provided nothing. runs a conan taff has the most risk of any. conan taff has the most risk of any lokeh _ conan taff has the most risk of any lokeh authority— conan taff has the most risk of any loken authority and _ conan taff has the most risk of any loken authority and the _ conan taff has the most risk of any loken authority and the spectre - conan taff has the most risk of any loken authority and the spectre ofi loken authority and the spectre of atletteri— loken authority and the spectre of aberfah looms _ loken authority and the spectre of aberfan looms large _ loken authority and the spectre of aberfan looms large over- loken authority and the spectre of aberfan looms large over i- aberfan looms large over i communities— aberfan looms large over i communities —— _ aberfan looms large over i communities —— ronde. . aberfan looms large over i communities —— ronde. soj aberfan looms large over i- communities —— ronde. so does the prime _ communities —— ronde. so does the prime minister— communities —— ronde. so does the prime minister thing _ communities —— ronde. so does the prime minister thing it— communities —— ronde. so does the prime minister thing it is— communities —— ronde. so does the prime minister thing it is right - communities —— ronde. so does the prime minister thing it is right the i prime minister thing it is right the uk took— prime minister thing it is right the uk took the economic— prime minister thing it is right the uk took the economic benefit - prime minister thing it is right thei uk took the economic benefit from welsh _ uk took the economic benefit from welsh coat. — uk took the economic benefit from welsh coal, but _ uk took the economic benefit from welsh coal, but won't _ uk took the economic benefit from welsh coal, but won't fund - uk took the economic benefit from welsh coal, but won't fund the - welsh coal, but won't fund the safety — welsh coal, but won't fund the safety of — welsh coal, but won't fund the safety of its _ welsh coal, but won't fund the safety of its legacy? _ welsh coal, but won't fund the safety of its legacy? mr- welsh coal, but won't fund the safety of its legacy? mr speaker, what the uk _ safety of its legacy? mr speaker, what the uk government - safety of its legacy? mr speaker, what the uk government is - safety of its legacy? mr speaker, j what the uk government is doing safety of its legacy? mr speaker, i what the uk government is doing in investing —— is investing in wales, record investment in north wales electrification on the line, record investment in communities up and down the country. and it's important to recognise thatjust recently, just recently, the uk government has invested hundreds of millions of pounds to safeguard thousands of jobs at tata steel. and come at the welsh government does have access to the largest set of bonnet consequential is on record over the past couple of years —— bonnet consequential is. and they have the resources they need.— resources they need. thanks to this conservative _ resources they need. thanks to this conservative government, - resources they need. thanks to this conservative government, the - resources they need. thanks to this l conservative government, the people of stoke—on—trent_ conservative government, the people of stoke—on—trent will— conservative government, the people of stoke—on—trent will see _ conservative government, the people of stoke—on—trent will see over- conservative government, the people of stoke—on—trent will see over £200 million _ of stoke—on—trent will see over £200 million to— of stoke—on—trent will see over £200 million to fix — of stoke—on—trent will see over £200 million to fix our— of stoke—on—trent will see over £200 million to fix our broken _ of stoke—on—trent will see over £200 million to fix our broken roads, - of stoke—on—trent will see over £200 million to fix our broken roads, the i million to fix our broken roads, the reopening — million to fix our broken roads, the reopening of— million to fix our broken roads, the reopening of the _ million to fix our broken roads, the reopening of the line _ million to fix our broken roads, the reopening of the line and _ reopening of the line and introducing _ reopening of the line and introducing fairer- reopening of the line and introducing fairer fares i reopening of the line and l introducing fairer fares and reopening of the line and _ introducing fairer fares and smarter routes _ introducing fairer fares and smarter routes to— introducing fairer fares and smarter routes to better— introducing fairer fares and smarter routes to better connect _ introducing fairer fares and smarter routes to better connect our - routes to better connect our communities. _ routes to better connect our communities. however, - routes to better connect our - communities. however, residents routes to better connect our _ communities. however, residents who have a_ communities. however, residents who have a free _ communities. however, residents who have a free bus— communities. however, residents who have a free bus pass _ communities. however, residents who have a free bus pass are _ communities. however, residents who have a free bus pass are being - have a free bus pass are being denied — have a free bus pass are being denied using _ have a free bus pass are being denied using it _ have a free bus pass are being denied using it before - have a free bus pass are being denied using it before 9:30am have a free bus pass are being i denied using it before 9:30am by have a free bus pass are being - denied using it before 9:30am by the labour— denied using it before 9:30am by the labour stoke—on—trent_ denied using it before 9:30am by the labour stoke—on—trent city— denied using it before 9:30am by the labour stoke—on—trent city council. i labour stoke—on—trent city council. meaning _ labour stoke—on—trent city council. meaning people _ labour stoke—on—trent city council. meaning people can't— labour stoke—on—trent city council. meaning people can't get— labour stoke—on—trent city council. meaning people can't get to - labour stoke—on—trent city council. meaning people can't get to their. labour stoke—on—trent city council. | meaning people can't get to their gp appointment— meaning people can't get to their gp appointment or _ meaning people can't get to their gp appointment or to _ meaning people can't get to their gp appointment or to work. _ meaning people can't get to their gp appointment or to work. so - meaning people can't get to their gp appointment or to work. so will - meaning people can't get to their gp appointment or to work. so will the i appointment or to work. so will the prime _ appointment or to work. so will the prime mmister— appointment or to work. so will the prime minister back— appointment or to work. so will the prime minister back my— appointment or to work. so will the prime minister back my campaign l appointment or to work. so will the i prime minister back my campaign to end this _ prime minister back my campaign to end this unfair— prime minister back my campaign to end this unfair policy _ prime minister back my campaign to end this unfair policy being - prime minister back my campaign to end this unfair policy being opposed | end this unfair policy being opposed -- being— end this unfair policy being opposed -- being imposed— end this unfair policy being opposed —— being imposed upon— end this unfair policy being opposed —— being imposed upon residents? i end this unfair policy being opposed i —— being imposed upon residents? my —— being imposed upon residents? honourable friend is absolutely right about the importance of high quality buses, that's why we have capped the cost of travelling on buses to £2 until the end of 2024 as a result of our decision on hs2 buses to £2 until the end of 2024 as a result of our decision on h52 and support councils with £i a result of our decision on h52 and support councils with £1 billion of funding. i would urge all councils to ensure people see the benefits of that investment and wholeheartedly back his campaign. hhs that investment and wholeheartedly back his campaign.— that investment and wholeheartedly back his campaign. nhs england has awarded £330 _ back his campaign. nhs england has awarded £330 million _ back his campaign. nhs england has awarded £330 million to _ back his campaign. nhs england has awarded £330 million to a _ awarded £330 million to a controversial technology firm to help it recover from controversial technology firm to help it recoverfrom its pandemic backlog. despite deep concerns among many health care professionals about privacy, ethics and the safety of patient data. in light of the government's recently commissioned report on unifying health data in the uk, can the prime minister confirm that no attempts will be made to force the scottish government to release the personal data of scottish residents to any centralised system? mr data of scottish residents to any centralised system? mr speaker, as the honourable _ centralised system? mr speaker, as the honourable lady— centralised system? mr speaker, as the honourable lady knows, - centralised system? mr speaker, as the honourable lady knows, health i the honourable lady knows, health care is devolved, but we will look for every opportunity to improve patient care and reduce waiting lists in england, and that is what we are doing, developing new technology which has had a proven track record in bringing down waiting lists and improving the optimisation efficiency of how theatres are scheduled. that is the type of thing we need to do to ensure patients get the care they need and we can get efficiency in the nhs. ., , ., ., ~ the nhs. final question. you, mr seaker. the nhs. final question. you, mr speaker- the _ the nhs. final question. you, mr speaker. the increasing - speaker. the increasing proliferation of ai generated disinformation and deepfake poses a clear and present danger not only to our democratic process, but the administration ofjustice itself. administration of justice itself. what administration ofjustice itself. what further steps will my right honourable friend take following the bletchley summit to strengthen our domestic law when it comes to this threat to democracy and take international action to provide the guardrails i believe are essential if we are to maintain integrity in the administration ofjustice? iretell. the administration of 'ustice? well, i thank m the administration ofjustice? well, i thank my honourable _ the administration ofjustice? well, i thank my honourable friend - the administration ofjustice? well, i thank my honourable friend for all the work he has done in this incredibly important area. he is right we need to have guardrails around successful exploitation of this technology, which is why the 0nline safety bill gives the regulator significant new powers to regulate the content on social media companies, including some of the ones you mentioned. but we are also working internationally following up from the summit to ensure that we can all get the benefits of this technology, but in the process, safeguard our democracy which is so crucial to the functioning of our country. the conclusion that prime minister's questions. the first parameters questions since last week's autumn statement. but the economy didn't feature that much in the discussions today. the focus was on migration. for analysis on this prime minister's questions we go live to westminster and our correspondent. what did you make of it today? iretell. what did you make of it today? well, there was quite _ what did you make of it today? well, there was quite an _ what did you make of it today? vii there was quite an extraordinary exchange between keir starmer and rishi sunak, particularly because rishi sunak, particularly because rishi sunak, particularly because rishi sunak decided to ratchet up his criticism of the greek government. there has been this row brewing of the past couple of days of —— after the premise to cancel the meeting with the greek prime minister, after the greek premise to mentioned his desire for the elgin marbles, or parthenon sculptures, to be returned to greece. rishi sunak effectively accused the greek government of grandstanding over the issue and also accused keir starmer of backing an eu country over britain, when keir starmer asked him why he didn't decide to meet the greek prime minister and use it as an opportunity to discuss issues like migration. the position of number ten has been that the reason the meeting was cancelled was because the greek government had given him assurances that the prime minister wouldn't use his visit to london as a platform to raise this particular issue even if he wanted to raise it in private and that those assurances were broken. this is something the greek government has denied. but labour were pretty critical in today's prime minister's questions with keir starmer accusing rishi sunak of focusing on this rather than coming up with an answer on how he plans to get migration figures down after wrecking numbers of legal migration have been recorded in the latest figures. it was mentioned, record numbers on legal migration and the pressure to do something. that's also from within his own party?— do something. that's also from within his own party? that's right. there were _ within his own party? that's right. there were some _ within his own party? that's right. there were some quite _ within his own party? that's right. there were some quite grim - within his own party? that's right. there were some quite grim facesj within his own party? that's right. i there were some quite grim faces on the conservative benches today in response to rishi sunak�*s answer on this, partly because he hasn't given them yet an answer on what exactly he plans to do to get those numbers down further, other than reiterating that he thinks the figures are currently too high. at the moment, he has been under pressure from opposition parties but also from within his own party, partly because his own immigration minister has made it quite clear what he thinks some of the solutions could be, he has proposed things like raising the salary threshold for migrants coming to the uk but also he said there are strong arguments for things like reducing the number of dependents that migrants can bring to the uk as well as potential even a cap on migration in total. so the immigration minister has put forward some suggestions which number ten say they are considering, but certainly the pressure is turning to rishi sunak to outline what he may want to go forward with in order to kind of alleviate some of his own mps' concerns on this issue. thank ou. you. now, an inquest has heard that four teenagers drowned after their car overturned on a camping trip in north wales earlier this month. the four teenagers were found in an overturned partially submerged car in gwyneth. a lorry driver —— and in gwyneth. a lorry driver saw the car after a major search. we go live to our wales correspondent in cardiff. what did we hear from the inquest today which allowed inquest has been adjourned as the police continue their investigations, but we have heard as you mentioned the initial postmortem examination and the prelate —— but that a preliminary cause of death has been drowning for all four of those teenagers, all aged between 16 and 18. this all happened two weekends ago, the boy said: a camping trip to snowdonia from shrewsbury and a last contact was on the sunday. the alarm was raised when they did return home and monday and on tuesday morning it is understood a member of the public saw their silver ford fiesta overturned and it had come off the road, it was partially submerged in water and as we know now, the cause of death has been drowning, and in north wales police initially said it looked like a tragic accident and they have appealed for anybody that was driving on that road over those three days from sunday the 19th to tuesday the 21st who might have —— cam footage to give it over to them so they can continue their investigations. the inquest is adjourned until the investigation comes to an end. this toy dominated headlines last week when we heard this tragedy had taken place, under a number of tributes which boarding especially for those living in shrewsbury, where the boys lived in and around that area. it is understood there were teachers crying in schools, the mother one of the boys said she was living a nightmare after she had happened to her son. nightmare after she had happened to herson. even in nightmare after she had happened to her son. even in the house of commons rishi sunak pay tribute to the families of four boys. they cover makker inquiry continues today with a former health secretary sajid javid due to give his accounts. —— the covid inquiry. the former foreign secretary dominic raabis former foreign secretary dominic raab is also due to address the inquiry this afternoon. we're just having some difficulties there, we just want to bring you video clip which is some of the statements we heard earlier today from professor dame jenny heard earlier today from professor damejenny harries, when she was speaking to the covid inquiry earlier today.— speaking to the covid inquiry earliertoda . . ., ., , , earlier today. again raising, why have closed _ earlier today. again raising, why have closed borders, _ earlier today. again raising, why have closed borders, it - earlier today. again raising, why have closed borders, it should i earlier today. again raising, why| have closed borders, it should be for all— have closed borders, it should be for all travellers, _ have closed borders, it should be for all travellers, the _ have closed borders, it should be for all travellers, the benefits- for all travellers, the benefits outweigh _ for all travellers, the benefits outweigh the _ for all travellers, the benefits outweigh the costs, - for all travellers, the benefits outweigh the costs, and - for all travellers, the benefits outweigh the costs, and the i for all travellers, the benefits- outweigh the costs, and the response you get— outweigh the costs, and the response you get ism — outweigh the costs, and the response you get ism you _ outweigh the costs, and the response you get is... you explained _ outweigh the costs, and the response you get is... you explained you're - you get is... you explained you're doing _ you get is... you explained you're doing lots— you get is... you explained you're doing lots of— you get is... you explained you're doing lots of research _ you get is... you explained you're doing lots of research on - you get is... you explained you're doing lots of research on the - doing lots of research on the pandemic, _ doing lots of research on the pandemic, did _ doing lots of research on the pandemic, did you _ doing lots of research on the pandemic, did you ever- doing lots of research on thej pandemic, did you ever raise doing lots of research on the - pandemic, did you ever raise that with the _ pandemic, did you ever raise that with the prime _ pandemic, did you ever raise that with the prime minister? - pandemic, did you ever raise that with the prime minister? [- pandemic, did you ever raise that with the prime minister?- with the prime minister? i don't recall raising — with the prime minister? i don't recall raising it _ with the prime minister? i don't recall raising it with _ with the prime minister? i don't recall raising it with him. - with the prime minister? i don't recall raising it with him. i- with the prime minister? i don't. recall raising it with him. i wasn't in government. gf recall raising it with him. i wasn't in government.— recall raising it with him. i wasn't in government._ if - recall raising it with him. i wasn't in government._ if i i recall raising it with him. i wasn't. in government._ if i may in government. of course. ifi may 'ust add in government. of course. ifi may just add something, _ in government. of course. ifi may just add something, i _ in government. of course. ifi may just add something, i think- in government. of course. ifi may just add something, i think that i in government. of course. ifi may just add something, i think that it| just add something, i think that it was to— just add something, i think that it was to do— just add something, i think that it was to do with the delta variant, which _ was to do with the delta variant, which was — was to do with the delta variant, which was i _ was to do with the delta variant, which was i think at that time very prevalent— which was i think at that time very prevalent in southeast asia, we had a lot of— prevalent in southeast asia, we had a lot of flights in and out of southeast asia and is why i raised it. southeast asia and is why i raised it~ ami _ southeast asia and is why i raised it. and uselessly alluded to it but ithink— it. and uselessly alluded to it but ithihk it's — it. and uselessly alluded to it but i think it's important, although i was on — i think it's important, although i was on the _ i think it's important, although i was on the back benches are not in government, one of the things i did take upon— government, one of the things i did take upon myself at that time was that i_ take upon myself at that time was that i became i became a senior figure _ that i became i became a senior figure irr— that i became i became a senior figure in a — that i became i became a senior figure in a research project which was on _ figure in a research project which was on the — figure in a research project which was on the pandemic, and broadly how couhtries _ was on the pandemic, and broadly how countries in _ was on the pandemic, and broadly how countries in general at the time responded to it and how they took differerrt— responded to it and how they took different approaches and i was trying — different approaches and i was trying to— different approaches and i was trying to understand that and trying to think— trying to understand that and trying to think about that in the context of what _ to think about that in the context of what the uk was doing. sol to think about that in the context of what the uk was doing. so i was doihg _ of what the uk was doing. so i was doihg a _ of what the uk was doing. so i was doihg a lot — of what the uk was doing. so i was doing a lot of research, talking to a lot— doing a lot of research, talking to a lot of— doing a lot of research, talking to a lot of people, talking to ministers and other countries, i talked — ministers and other countries, i talked to— ministers and other countries, i talked to epidemiologists, so my knowledge was based on that independent research i was doing. i now independent research i was doing. now want independent research i was doing. i now want to go on to deal with your term _ now want to go on to deal with your term as _ now want to go on to deal with your term as secretary _ now want to go on to deal with your term as secretary of _ now want to go on to deal with your term as secretary of state - term as secretary of state for health — term as secretary of state for health and _ term as secretary of state for health and social— term as secretary of state for health and social care - term as secretary of state for health and social care if - term as secretary of state for health and social care if i - term as secretary of state for. health and social care if i may. june _ health and social care if i may. june of— health and social care if i may. june of 202i _ health and social care if i may. june of 2021. just— health and social care if i may. june of 2021. just to _ health and social care if i may. june of 2021. just to fix - health and social care if i may. june of 2021. just to fix that. health and social care if i may. june of 2021. just to fix that in| june of 2021. just to fix that in terms — june of 2021. just to fix that in terms of— june of 2021. just to fix that in terms of the _ june of 2021. just to fix that in terms of the timing, - june of 2021. just to fix that in terms of the timing, the - june of 2021. just to fix that in - terms of the timing, the rude—mac had been _ terms of the timing, the rude—mac had been published _ terms of the timing, the rude—mac had been published earlier- terms of the timing, the rude—mac had been published earlier that - terms of the timing, the rude—mac. had been published earlier that year out of— had been published earlier that year out of lockdown. _ had been published earlier that year out of lockdown. —— _ had been published earlier that year out of lockdown. —— make _ had been published earlier that year out of lockdown. —— make a - had been published earlier that year out of lockdown. —— make a road - had been published earlier that year. out of lockdown. —— make a road map. step four— out of lockdown. —— make a road map. step four was — out of lockdown. —— make a road map. step four was due _ out of lockdown. —— make a road map. step four was due to _ out of lockdown. —— make a road map. step four was due to take _ out of lockdown. —— make a road map. step four was due to take this - out of lockdown. —— make a road map. step four was due to take this on - step four was due to take this on the 14th — step four was due to take this on the 14th of— step four was due to take this on the 14th ofjune _ step four was due to take this on the 14th ofjune but _ step four was due to take this on the 14th ofjune but was - step four was due to take this on the 14th ofjune but was delayed | the 14th ofjune but was delayed until the — the 14th ofjune but was delayed until the 19th— the 14th ofjune but was delayed until the 19th of— the 14th ofjune but was delayed until the 19th ofjuly. _ the 14th ofjune but was delayed until the 19th ofjuly. so - the 14th ofjune but was delayed until the 19th ofjuly. so within l until the 19th ofjuly. so within that period _ until the 19th ofjuly. so within that period. subsequent - until the 19th ofjuly. so within that period. subsequent to - until the 19th ofjuly. so within l that period. subsequent to that, until the 19th ofjuly. so within - that period. subsequent to that, the 14th of— that period. subsequent to that, the 14th of september, _ that period. subsequent to that, the 14th of september, plan _ that period. subsequent to that, the 14th of september, plan b _ that period. subsequent to that, the 14th of september, plan b was - 14th of september, plan b was announced _ 14th of september, plan b was announced and _ 14th of september, plan b was announced and then _ 14th of september, plan b was i announced and then implemented 14th of september, plan b was - announced and then implemented on the 8th— announced and then implemented on the 8th of— announced and then implemented on the 8th of december. _ announced and then implemented on the 8th of december. then _ announced and then implemented onl the 8th of december. then facemasks and so _ the 8th of december. then facemasks and so on _ the 8th of december. then facemasks and so on came— the 8th of december. then facemasks and so on came in— the 8th of december. then facemasks and so on came in on— the 8th of december. then facemasks and so on came in on the _ the 8th of december. then facemasks and so on came in on the 10th- the 8th of december. then facemasks and so on came in on the 10th of- and so on came in on the 10th of december — and so on came in on the 10th of december. throughout- and so on came in on the 10th of december. throughout that - and so on came in on the 10th of. december. throughout that period and so on came in on the 10th of- december. throughout that period i'm focusing _ december. throughout that period i'm focusing on— december. throughout that period i'm focusing on if— december. throughout that period i'm focusing on if i— december. throughout that period i'm focusing on if i may, _ december. throughout that period i'm focusing on if i may, then— december. throughout that period i'm focusing on if i may, then we - december. throughout that period i'm focusing on if i may, then we to - focusing on if i may, then we to omicron, — focusing on if i may, then we to omicron, the _ focusing on if i may, then we to omicron, the new— focusing on if i may, then we to omicron, the new variant - focusing on if i may, then we to omicron, the new variant from i omicron, the new variant from novemher— omicron, the new variant from november 2021. _ omicron, the new variant from november2021. uk— omicron, the new variant from november 2021. uk men - omicron, the new variant from november 2021. uk men in - omicron, the new variant from i november 2021. uk men injean omicron, the new variant from - november 2021. uk men injean 2021, part way— november 2021. uk men injean 2021, part way through — november 2021. uk men injean 2021, part way through that _ november 2021. uk men injean 2021, part way through that road _ november 2021. uk men injean 2021, part way through that road map. - november 2021. uk men injean 2021, part way through that road map. —— i part way through that road map. —— new campaign— part way through that road map. —— new campaign in— part way through that road map. —— new campaign injune. _ part way through that road map. —— new campaign injune. your- new campaign injune. your involvement, _ new campaign injune. your involvement, was— new campaign injune. your involvement, was it- new campaign injune. yourl involvement, was it involved new campaign injune. your. involvement, was it involved in discussions _ involvement, was it involved in discussions concerning - involvement, was it involved in discussions concerning the - involvement, was it involved in l discussions concerning the lifting of restrictions? _ discussions concerning the lifting of restrictions?— of restrictions? when i arrived at the department, _ of restrictions? when i arrived at the department, which _ of restrictions? when i arrived at the department, which i - of restrictions? when i arrived at the department, which i think. of restrictions? when i arrived at. the department, which i think was the department, which i think was the 26th— the department, which i think was the 26th ofjune 2021, the main discussion— the 26th ofjune 2021, the main discussion that was going on with respect _ discussion that was going on with respect to— discussion that was going on with respect to the pandemic within government was, what's the right time _ government was, what's the right time to— government was, what's the right time to move to step four? so the lifting _ time to move to step four? so the lifting of— time to move to step four? so the lifting of some the restrictions. at that lifting of some the restrictions. that point lifting of some the restrictions. at that point it had already been pushed — that point it had already been pushed back, _ that point it had already been pushed back, the _ that point it had already been pushed back, the 19th- that point it had already been pushed back, the 19th of- that point it had already been| pushed back, the 19th ofjuly, that point it had already been- pushed back, the 19th ofjuly, was that a _ pushed back, the 19th ofjuly, was that a date — pushed back, the 19th ofjuly, was that a date that _ pushed back, the 19th ofjuly, was that a date that had _ pushed back, the 19th ofjuly, was that a date that had been - pushed back, the 19th ofjuly, was that a date that had been alightedj that a date that had been alighted on? �* that a date that had been alighted on? r ., ., that a date that had been alighted on? . ., ., ., ., , ' that a date that had been alighted on? �* ., ., ., ., , ' ., on? and another date was the 12th of jul as the on? and another date was the 12th of july as the decision _ on? and another date was the 12th of july as the decision day. _ on? and another date was the 12th of july as the decision day. do _ on? and another date was the 12th of july as the decision day. do you - july as the decision day. do you recall communications - july as the decision day. do you recall communications referring july as the decision day. do you i recall communications referring to it as freedom _ recall communications referring to it as freedom day? _ recall communications referring to it as freedom day?— recall communications referring to it as freedom day? when you say, on occasions, it as freedom day? when you say, on occasions. what _ it as freedom day? when you say, on occasions, what do _ it as freedom day? when you say, on occasions, what do you _ it as freedom day? when you say, on occasions, what do you mean? - occasions, what do you mean? government communications. how it was ireing _ government communications. how it was ireing packaged _ government communications. how it was being packaged. dough—mac- government communications. how it was being packaged. dough—mac i i government communications. how it| was being packaged. dough—mac i do recali— was being packaged. dough—mac i do recait hearing~ — was being packaged. dough—mac i do recait hearing~ -- _ was being packaged. dough—mac i do recall hearing —— l— was being packaged. dough—mac i do recall hearing -- i do— was being packaged. dough-maci do recall hearing. --_ recall hearing. -- i do recall heafina recall hearing. -- i do recall hearing references - recall hearing. -- i do recall hearing references to - recall hearing. -- i do recall. hearing references to freedom recall hearing. -- i do recall- hearing references to freedom day but within— hearing references to freedom day but within government documents, no, i but within government documents, no, i don't _ but within government documents, no, i don't. ~ . , but within government documents, no, idon't. ~ . but within government documents, no, idon't. . ., ., but within government documents, no, idon't. ~ ., ., ., i don't. was at a government strate: i don't. was at a government strategy in — i don't. was at a government strategy in terms _ i don't. was at a government strategy in terms of - i don't. was at a government strategy in terms of outward | i don't. was at a government - strategy in terms of outward facing communications _ strategy in terms of outward facing communications to— strategy in terms of outward facing communications to your— strategy in terms of outward facing i communications to your knowledge, either— communications to your knowledge, either within— communications to your knowledge, either within the _ communications to your knowledge, either within the department - communications to your knowledge, either within the department withini either within the department within number— either within the department within number ten? — either within the department within numberten? neit— either within the department within number ten?— either within the department within number ten? not to call it freedom da , in number ten? not to call it freedom day. in fact — number ten? not to call it freedom day. in fact on _ number ten? not to call it freedom day, in fact on the _ number ten? not to call it freedom day, in fact on the contrary, - number ten? not to call it freedom day, in fact on the contrary, i - day, in fact on the contrary, i recall— day, in fact on the contrary, i recall it — day, in fact on the contrary, i recall it saying very clearly during the lead — recall it saying very clearly during the lead up tojuly recall it saying very clearly during the lead up to july the recall it saying very clearly during the lead up tojuly the 19th recall it saying very clearly during the lead up to july the 19th that we, the lead up to july the 19th that we. the — the lead up to july the 19th that we, the government, we must be clear that it _ we, the government, we must be clear that it is _ we, the government, we must be clear that it is not _ we, the government, we must be clear that it is not freedom day. so truly important — that it is not freedom day. so truly important that whilst we remove some of the _ important that whilst we remove some of the statutory restrictions, that people _ of the statutory restrictions, that people in— of the statutory restrictions, that people in general do not feel that the pandemic is over, everything is back to _ the pandemic is over, everything is back to normal, because far from it, the pandemic, the virus was still very much— the pandemic, the virus was still very much around and also, there is a bunch _ very much around and also, there is a bunch of— very much around and also, there is a bunch of other measures and restrictions that will stay in place. _ restrictions that will stay in place, for example around border control, _ place, for example around border control, the test and trace and isolate — control, the test and trace and isolate policy. so it was really important, i think, isolate policy. so it was really important, ithink, to isolate policy. so it was really important, i think, to the country of it being — important, i think, to the country of it being freedom day, it was anything — of it being freedom day, it was anything but freedom day. in terms of our anything but freedom day. in terms of your position _ anything but freedom day. in terms of your position and _ anything but freedom day. in terms of your position and restrictions, - of your position and restrictions, at that— of your position and restrictions, at that point _ of your position and restrictions, at that point were _ of your position and restrictions, at that point were you _ of your position and restrictions, | at that point were you advocating for a _ at that point were you advocating for a loosening _ at that point were you advocating for a loosening of— at that point were you advocating for a loosening of restrictions? ii for a loosening of restrictions? i was for a loosening of restrictions? was keen to see a loosening of restrictions if the evidence allowed it. , , ., it. did you consider that the evidence — it. did you consider that the evidence did _ it. did you consider that the evidence did allow - it. did you consider that the evidence did allow it - it. did you consider that the evidence did allow it in - it. did you consider that the - evidence did allow it in summer 2021? _ evidence did allow it in summer 2021? , do evidence did allow it in summer 2021?_ do you - evidence did allow it in summer 2021?_ do you recall, j evidence did allow it in summer i 2021?_ do you recall, if 2021? yes, i did. do you recall, if i mayiust — 2021? yes, i did. do you recall, if i mayiust talk — 2021? yes, i did. do you recall, if i mayiust talk up _ 2021? yes, i did. do you recall, if i may just talk up patrick - i mayjust talk up patrick vallance's_ i mayjust talk up patrick vallance's notes. - i mayjust talk up patrick vallance's notes. —— - i mayjust talk up patrick. vallance's notes. —— caught i mayjust talk up patrick- vallance's notes. —— caught up. i mayjust talk up patrick— vallance's notes. —— caught up. this released _ vallance's notes. —— caught up. this released the — vallance's notes. —— caught up. this released the 30th _ vallance's notes. —— caught up. this released the 30th of _ vallance's notes. —— caught up. this released the 30th ofjune _ vallance's notes. —— caught up. this released the 30th ofjune 2021, - vallance's notes. —— caught up. this released the 30th ofjune 2021, a i released the 30th ofjune 2021, a meeting — released the 30th ofjune 2021, a meeting with _ released the 30th ofjune 2021, a meeting with the _ released the 30th ofjune 2021, a meeting with the covid _ released the 30th ofjune 2021, a i meeting with the covid dashboard, pa-e meeting with the covid dashboard, page 615 — meeting with the covid dashboard, page 615 ons _ meeting with the covid dashboard, page 613. ons shows— meeting with the covid dashboard, page 613. ons shows big - meeting with the covid dashboard, page 613. ons shows big increasel meeting with the covid dashboard, i page 613. ons shows big increase in numbers— page 613. ons shows big increase in numbers since— page 613. ons shows big increase in numbers since last _ page 613. ons shows big increase in numbers since last week, _ page 613. ons shows big increase in numbers since last week, nearly - page 613. ons shows big increase in numbers since last week, nearly doubling — numbers since last week, nearly doubling we _ numbers since last week, nearly doubling we see _ numbers since last week, nearly doubling we see gavin- numbers since last week, nearly i doubling we see gavin williamson numbers since last week, nearly - doubling we see gavin williamson is in the _ doubling we see gavin williamson is in the room. — doubling we see gavin williamson is in the room. you _ doubling we see gavin williamson is in the room, you are _ doubling we see gavin williamson is in the room, you are also _ doubling we see gavin williamson is in the room, you are also in - doubling we see gavin williamson is in the room, you are also in the - in the room, you are also in the room _ in the room, you are also in the room it— in the room, you are also in the room. it records— in the room, you are also in the room. it records gavin- room. it records gavin williamson sign, _ room. it records gavin williamson sign, children— room. it records gavin williamson sign, children shouldn't _ room. it records gavin williamson sign, children shouldn't be - room. it records gavin williamson sign, children shouldn't be askedl room. it records gavin williamson l sign, children shouldn't be asked to do things— sign, children shouldn't be asked to do things adults _ sign, children shouldn't be asked to do things adults are _ sign, children shouldn't be asked to do things adults are not. _ sign, children shouldn't be asked to do things adults are not. it - sign, children shouldn't be asked to do things adults are not. it then - do things adults are not. it then continues, — do things adults are not. it then continues, the _ do things adults are not. it then continues, the sarge _ do things adults are not. it then continues, the sarge comes- do things adults are not. it then continues, the sarge comes in, | do things adults are not. it then i continues, the sarge comes in, is do things adults are not. it then . continues, the sarge comes in, is a reference _ continues, the sarge comes in, is a reference to — continues, the sarge comes in, is a reference to you? _ continues, the sarge comes in, is a reference to you? study _ continues, the sarge comes in, is a reference to you? study would - continues, the sarge comes in, is a reference to you? study would only determine — reference to you? study would only determine the _ reference to you? study would only determine the policy _ reference to you? study would only determine the policy for _ reference to you? study would only determine the policy for next - reference to you? study would onlyj determine the policy for next term. -- ve _ determine the policy for next term. -- ve sai _ determine the policy for next term. -- ve sa'. , , ., determine the policy for next term. --vesa'. , ., -- ve sa'. this is someone else's dia -- ve saj. this is someone else's diary entry- _ -- ve saj. this is someone else's diary entry- 0f— -- ve saj. this is someone else's diary entry. of course. _ -- ve saj. this is someone else's diary entry. of course. records l -- ve saj. this is someone else's i diary entry. of course. records you started to make _ diary entry. of course. records you started to make policy _ diary entry. of course. records you started to make policy on _ diary entry. of course. records you started to make policy on the - diary entry. of course. records you started to make policy on the hoof| started to make policy on the hoof with you _ started to make policy on the hoof with you and — started to make policy on the hoof with you and williamson _ started to make policy on the hoof with you and williamson jostling i started to make policy on the hoof. with you and williamson jostling for airtime _ with you and williamson jostling for airtime do — with you and williamson jostling for airtime do you— with you and williamson jostling for airtime. do you recall— with you and williamson jostling for airtime. do you recall what - with you and williamson jostling for airtime. do you recall what this - airtime. do you recall what this related — airtime. do you recall what this related to? _ clear this is a patrick vallance's diary— clear this is a patrick vallance's diary entry, it's a personal reflection by him of how he felt from _ reflection by him of how he felt from this— reflection by him of how he felt from this meeting. but i think what he's referring to is every live discussion— he's referring to is every live discussion of the time which was around _ discussion of the time which was around restrictions on schoolchildren. —— a very live discussion _ schoolchildren. —— a very live discussion. especially around the policy— discussion. especially around the policy at — discussion. especially around the policy at the time of, if one child -ot policy at the time of, if one child got covered back in a class, the whole _ got covered back in a class, the whole class was sent home, that was having _ whole class was sent home, that was having a _ whole class was sent home, that was having a huge impact on schooling and ultimately the life chances of children. — and ultimately the life chances of children, so it was a discussion about— children, so it was a discussion about that _ children, so it was a discussion about that. if i could point out another— about that. if i could point out another thing about this, i do get that it _ another thing about this, i do get that it is — another thing about this, i do get that it is relevant, it is dated the 30th— that it is relevant, it is dated the 30th of— that it is relevant, it is dated the 30th ofjune, but i had only been in position— 30th ofjune, but i had only been in position for— 30th ofjune, but i had only been in position for four days. so whatever information — position for four days. so whatever information i had at the time, i'd had four— information i had at the time, i'd had four days to learn that, as it were, _ had four days to learn that, as it were, and — had four days to learn that, as it were, and obviously i'd learned a lot more — were, and obviously i'd learned a lot more in— were, and obviously i'd learned a lot more in the coming days and weeks — lot more in the coming days and weeks. . . r' lot more in the coming days and weeks. ., ., a ., ,., .,, weeks. can i ask about the last line was mike michael— weeks. can i ask about the last line was mike michael gove _ weeks. can i ask about the last line was mike michael gove also - weeks. can i ask about the last line was mike michael gove also comes| weeks. can i ask about the last line l was mike michael gove also comes in and get _ was mike michael gove also comes in and get involved _ was mike michael gove also comes in and get involved in— was mike michael gove also comes in and get involved in the _ was mike michael gove also comes in and get involved in the discussion. i and get involved in the discussion. it appears — and get involved in the discussion. it appears that _ and get involved in the discussion. it appears that no _ and get involved in the discussion. it appears that no decision - and get involved in the discussion. it appears that no decision as - and get involved in the discussion. it appears that no decision as a - it appears that no decision as a consequence _ it appears that no decision as a consequence is— it appears that no decision as a consequence is made. - it appears that no decision as a consequence is made. i'm - it appears that no decision as a. consequence is made. i'm afraid it appears that no decision as a - consequence is made. i'm afraid we don't _ consequence is made. i'm afraid we don't know— consequence is made. i'm afraid we don't know who _ consequence is made. i'm afraid we don't know who says _ consequence is made. i'm afraid we don't know who says this _ consequence is made. i'm afraid we don't know who says this but - consequence is made. i'm afraid we don't know who says this but somel consequence is made. i'm afraid we i don't know who says this but some of afterwards, _ don't know who says this but some of afterwards, they— don't know who says this but some of afterwards, they are _ don't know who says this but some of afterwards, they are worried - don't know who says this but some of afterwards, they are worried about i afterwards, they are worried about the new _ afterwards, they are worried about the new secretary— afterwards, they are worried about the new secretary of— afterwards, they are worried about the new secretary of state, - afterwards, they are worried about the new secretary of state, they i the new secretary of state, they will rush — the new secretary of state, they will rush in — the new secretary of state, they will rush in to _ the new secretary of state, they will rush in to match _ the new secretary of state, they will rush in to match our- the new secretary of state, they i will rush in to match our right—wing decisions, — will rush in to match our right—wing decisions, cling _ will rush in to match our right—wing decisions, cling to _ will rush in to match our right—wing decisions, cling to the _ will rush in to match our right—wing decisions, cling to the audience. i decisions, cling to the audience. does _ decisions, cling to the audience. does that— decisions, cling to the audience. does that characterisation - decisions, cling to the audience. does that characterisation fit - decisions, cling to the audience. i does that characterisation fit from your perspective. _ does that characterisation fit from your perspective, fit _ does that characterisation fit from your perspective, fit what - does that characterisation fit from your perspective, fit what you - does that characterisation fit from your perspective, fit what you are| your perspective, fit what you are doing _ your perspective, fit what you are doing at _ your perspective, fit what you are doing at that _ your perspective, fit what you are doing at that point? _ your perspective, fit what you are doing at that point? n0. - your perspective, fit what you are doing at that point?— doing at that point? no. if i can then take _ doing at that point? no. if i can then take you. _ doing at that point? no. if i can then take you, please - doing at that point? no. if i can then take you, please come - doing at that point? no. if i canj then take you, please come out doing at that point? no. if i can i then take you, please come out to then take you, please come out to the discussions that were going on injuiy. _ the discussions that were going on injuiy~ so— the discussions that were going on injuly. so again, you are very new in july. so again, you are very new in july. so again, you are very new inthe— injuly. so again, you are very new in the job — in july. so again, you are very new in the job-— in the 'ob. 2nd ofjuly 2021. page 614. in the job. 2nd ofjuly 2021. page 614. the same _ in the job. 2nd ofjuly 2021. page 614. the same document, - in the job. 2nd ofjuly 2021. page | 614. the same document, please. in the job. 2nd ofjuly 2021. page i 614. the same document, please. a further— 614. the same document, please. a further meeting _ a difference of views between the prime _ a difference of views between the prime minister— a difference of views between the prime ministerand _ a difference of views between the prime minister and the _ a difference of views between the | prime minister and the chancellor, had michael— prime minister and the chancellor, had michael gove _ prime minister and the chancellor, had michael gove and _ prime minister and the chancellor, had michael gove and you - prime minister and the chancellor, had michael gove and you in- prime minister and the chancellor, i had michael gove and you in relation to what— had michael gove and you in relation to what you — had michael gove and you in relation to what you should _ had michael gove and you in relation to what you should be _ had michael gove and you in relation to what you should be doing. - had michael gove and you in relation to what you should be doing. and i had michael gove and you in relationi to what you should be doing. and the return— to what you should be doing. and the return to _ to what you should be doing. and the return to work — to what you should be doing. and the return to work. mask— to what you should be doing. and the return to work. mask wearing, - return to work. mask wearing, effectively _ return to work. mask wearing, effectively what _ return to work. mask wearing, effectively what mpis - return to work. mask wearing, effectively what mpis should i return to work. mask wearing, i effectively what mpis should be return to work. mask wearing, - effectively what mpis should be put in place _ effectively what mpis should be put in place we — effectively what mpis should be put in place. we see _ effectively what mpis should be put in place. we see a _ effectively what mpis should be put in place. we see a more _ effectively what mpis should be put in place. we see a more cautious. in place. we see a more cautious approach — in place. we see a more cautious approach been _ in place. we see a more cautious approach been recorded - in place. we see a more cautious approach been recorded in- in place. we see a more cautious. approach been recorded in relation to yours— approach been recorded in relation to yours and — approach been recorded in relation to yours and michael— approach been recorded in relation to yours and michael gove's - approach been recorded in relationj to yours and michael gove's views. what _ to yours and michael gove's views. what we _ to yours and michael gove's views. what we see — to yours and michael gove's views. what we see here _ to yours and michael gove's views. what we see here is _ to yours and michael gove's views. what we see here is in _ to yours and michael gove's views. what we see here is in terms - to yours and michael gove's views. what we see here is in terms of. to yours and michael gove's views. i what we see here is in terms of the situation _ what we see here is in terms of the situation that — what we see here is in terms of the situation that the _ what we see here is in terms of the situation that the cases _ what we see here is in terms of the situation that the cases are - what we see here is in terms of the situation that the cases are up, - situation that the cases are up, there _ situation that the cases are up, there are — situation that the cases are up, there are grim _ situation that the cases are up, there are grim predictions. - situation that the cases are up, there are grim predictions. you situation that the cases are up, - there are grim predictions. you say we are _ there are grim predictions. you say we are going — there are grim predictions. you say we are going to— there are grim predictions. you say we are going to have _ there are grim predictions. you say we are going to have to— there are grim predictions. you say we are going to have to learn - there are grim predictions. you say we are going to have to learn to . we are going to have to learn to live with — we are going to have to learn to live with it _ we are going to have to learn to live with it. and _ we are going to have to learn to live with it. and die _ we are going to have to learn to live with it. and die with- we are going to have to learn to live with it. and die with it, - we are going to have to learn to| live with it. and die with it, says prime _ live with it. and die with it, says prime minister. _ live with it. and die with it, says prime minister. do— live with it. and die with it, says prime minister. do you - live with it. and die with it, says prime minister. do you recall. live with it. and die with it, says. prime minister. do you recall that conversation? _ prime minister. do you recall that conversation? i— prime minister. do you recall that conversation?— prime minister. do you recall that conversation? i can recall me saying that, we conversation? i can recall me saying that. we are — conversation? i can recall me saying that. we are going — conversation? i can recall me saying that, we are going to _ conversation? i can recall me saying that, we are going to have _ conversation? i can recall me saying that, we are going to have to - conversation? i can recall me saying that, we are going to have to live i that, we are going to have to live with it _ i don't specifically recall the primitive saying and die with it but it is possible. is primitive saying and die with it but it is possible-— it is possible. is the type of words he did use? _ it is possible. is the type of words he did use? it's _ it is possible. is the type of words he did use? it's possible, - it is possible. is the type of words he did use? it's possible, yes. - it is possible. is the type of words| he did use? it's possible, yes. but it doesn't mean... _ he did use? it's possible, yes. but it doesn't mean... he _ he did use? it's possible, yes. but it doesn't mean... he often - he did use? it's possible, yes. but it doesn't mean... he often said i it doesn't mean... he often said things— it doesn't mean... he often said things that — it doesn't mean... he often said things that it is sometimes hard to determine — things that it is sometimes hard to determine what he actually thought versus, _ determine what he actually thought versus, you know, a joke or something, even when you are discussing _ something, even when you are discussing as important as this, something to lighten the mood. we see something to lighten the mood. see here something to lighten the mood. we see here the chancellor is pushing very hard — see here the chancellor is pushing very hard faster— see here the chancellor is pushing very hard faster opening _ see here the chancellor is pushing very hard faster opening up- see here the chancellor is pushing very hard faster opening up in- see here the chancellor is pushing very hard faster opening up in full| very hard faster opening up in full opening _ very hard faster opening up in full opening up — very hard faster opening up in full opening up at— very hard faster opening up in full opening up. at this _ very hard faster opening up in full opening up. at this point - very hard faster opening up in full opening up. at this point the - very hard faster opening up in full| opening up. at this point the living with covid — opening up. at this point the living with covid strategy— opening up. at this point the living with covid strategy was _ opening up. at this point the living with covid strategy was still- opening up. at this point the living with covid strategy was still underl with covid strategy was still under development _ with covid strategy was still under development. if— with covid strategy was still under development. [fl— with covid strategy was still under development-— with covid strategy was still under development. ifi could 'ust pause ou development. ifi could 'ust pause you there. — development. ifi could 'ust pause you there. rest development. ifi could 'ust pause you there, it's not - development. if i could just pause you there, it's not necessarily - you there, it's not necessarily reference by the then prime minister to lighten the mood, it could be taken in many ways, sol to lighten the mood, it could be taken in many ways, so i think we need to say that if it was said, which you don't necessarily remember, it doesn't mean it had that kind of intention. i think things have been misreported, as you will appreciate. 50 i things have been misreported, as you will appreciate-— will appreciate. so i 'ust wanted to make that point. — will appreciate. so i 'ust wanted to make that point. if — will appreciate. so i just wanted to make that point. if i _ will appreciate. so i just wanted to make that point. if i could - will appreciate. so i just wanted to | make that point. if i could continue down _ make that point. if i could continue down they— make that point. if i could continue down. they continues _ make that point. if i could continue down. they continues to _ make that point. if i could continue down. they continues to record - make that point. if i could continue i down. they continues to record some further— down. they continues to record some further discussion. _ down. they continues to record some further discussion. when _ down. they continues to record some further discussion. when making - further discussion. when making masks _ further discussion. when making masks voluntary, _ further discussion. when making masks voluntary, what _ further discussion. when making masks voluntary, what will- further discussion. when making - masks voluntary, what will ministers say, masks voluntary, what will ministers say. sometimes— masks voluntary, what will ministers say. sometimes i _ masks voluntary, what will ministers say, sometimes i will, _ masks voluntary, what will ministers say, sometimes i will, sometimes ii say, sometimes i will, sometimes i won't _ say, sometimes i will, sometimes i won't wear— say, sometimes i will, sometimes i won't wear one _ say, sometimes i will, sometimes i won't wear one. we _ say, sometimes i will, sometimes i won't wear one. we see letter- won't wear one. we see letter references — won't wear one. we see letter references to _ won't wear one. we see letter references to that _ won't wear one. we see letter references to that also. - won't wear one. we see letter references to that also. we i won't wear one. we see letterl references to that also. we can won't wear one. we see letter- references to that also. we can to encourage — references to that also. we can to encourage people _ references to that also. we can to encourage people to _ references to that also. we can to encourage people to wear - references to that also. we can to encourage people to wear masksl references to that also. we can to i encourage people to wear masks and will continue — encourage people to wear masks and will continue with— encourage people to wear masks and will continue with this... _ encourage people to wear masks and will continue with this... of- encourage people to wear masks and will continue with this... of a - will continue with this... of a maiingering _ will continue with this... of a malingering work—shy- will continue with this... of al malingering work—shy people. will continue with this... of a i malingering work—shy people. it will continue with this... of a - malingering work—shy people. it then .oes malingering work—shy people. it then goes on _ malingering work—shy people. it then goes on to— malingering work—shy people. it then goes on to ask — malingering work—shy people. it then goes on to ask or— malingering work—shy people. it then goes on to ask or say— malingering work—shy people. it then goes on to ask or say how _ malingering work—shy people. it then goes on to ask or say how much i malingering work—shy people. it then goes on to ask or say how much of i goes on to ask or say how much of the civil— goes on to ask or say how much of the civil service _ goes on to ask or say how much of the civil service is back, _ goes on to ask or say how much of the civil service is back, how- goes on to ask or say how much of| the civil service is back, how would you be _ the civil service is back, how would you be able — the civil service is back, how would you be able to _ the civil service is back, how would you be able to tell? _ the civil service is back, how would you be able to tell? in _ the civil service is back, how would you be able to tell? in terms - the civil service is back, how would you be able to tell? in terms of i the civil service is back, how would| you be able to tell? in terms of the consulting — you be able to tell? in terms of the consulting with _ you be able to tell? in terms of the consulting with employees - you be able to tell? in terms of the consulting with employees and i you be able to tell? in terms of the i consulting with employees and trade unions, _ consulting with employees and trade unions, was — consulting with employees and trade unions, was that _ consulting with employees and trade unions, was that something - consulting with employees and trade unions, was that something the i unions, was that something the government— unions, was that something the government was— unions, was that something the government was open - unions, was that something the government was open to - unions, was that something the j government was open to doing, unions, was that something the i government was open to doing, or unions, was that something the - government was open to doing, or was this the _ government was open to doing, or was this the general— government was open to doing, or was this the general attitude _ government was open to doing, or was this the general attitude towards - this the general attitude towards government— this the general attitude towards government in— this the general attitude towards government in relation— this the general attitude towards government in relation to - this the general attitude towards government in relation to trade i government in relation to trade unions? — government in relation to trade unions? ., ., ., unions? other than the health trade unions, i wasn't _ unions? other than the health trade unions, i wasn't dealing _ unions? other than the health trade unions, i wasn't dealing with - unions? other than the health trade unions, i wasn't dealing with the i unions, i wasn't dealing with the trade _ unions, i wasn't dealing with the trade unions and i think this is probably— trade unions and i think this is probably a _ trade unions and i think this is probably a reference to the wider group _ probably a reference to the wider group of— probably a reference to the wider group of trade unions. sol probably a reference to the wider group of trade unions. so i wouldn't have been— group of trade unions. so i wouldn't have been involved in that. by group of trade unions. so i wouldn't have been involved in that.- have been involved in that. by the end of the meeting, _ have been involved in that. by the end of the meeting, what - have been involved in that. by the end of the meeting, what we i have been involved in that. by the end of the meeting, what we have here is— end of the meeting, what we have here is at— end of the meeting, what we have here is at ends— end of the meeting, what we have here is at ends by— end of the meeting, what we have here is at ends byjoking, - end of the meeting, what we have here is at ends byjoking, please i here is at ends byjoking, please recover— here is at ends byjoking, please recover natural— here is at ends byjoking, please recover natural caution. - here is at ends byjoking, please recover natural caution. at i here is at ends byjoking, please recover natural caution. at that. recover natural caution. at that point _ recover natural caution. at that point it— recover natural caution. at that point it is— recover natural caution. at that point it is also _ recover natural caution. at that point it is also recorded - recover natural caution. at that point it is also recorded that. recover natural caution. at thati point it is also recorded that the cmo _ point it is also recorded that the cmo and — point it is also recorded that the cmo and d_ point it is also recorded that the cmo and d professor— point it is also recorded that the cmo and d professor patrick - point it is also recorded that the - cmo and d professor patrick vallance had made _ cmo and d professor patrick vallance had made the — cmo and d professor patrick vallance had made the risks— cmo and d professor patrick vallance had made the risks very _ cmo and d professor patrick vallance had made the risks very clear. - had made the risks very clear. that's— had made the risks very clear. that's in— had made the risks very clear. that's in relation— had made the risks very clear. that's in relation to _ had made the risks very clear. that's in relation to rising - that's in relation to rising numbers, _ that's in relation to rising numbers, is— that's in relation to rising numbers, is that - that's in relation to rising numbers, is that right? . that's in relation to rising numbers, is that right? [i that's in relation to rising numbers, is that right? i think that's right. — numbers, is that right? i think that's right, yes. _ numbers, is that right? i think that's right, yes. it _ numbers, is that right? i think that's right, yes. it also - numbers, is that right? i think that's right, yes. it also says l that's right, yes. it also says here, — that's right, yes. it also says here, if_ that's right, yes. it also says here, if i_ that's right, yes. it also says here, if i may point out, it is also, — here, if i may point out, it is also, basically there is the pm and the chancellor against the more cautious— the chancellor against the more cautious go and saj. i think the cautious— cautious go and saj. i think the cautious point refers to something you touched on earlier, which says it waswt— you touched on earlier, which says it wasn't freedom day. and restrictions would still be in place but white — restrictions would still be in place but white testimony there from the former_ but white testimony there from the former health secretary sajid javid to the _ former health secretary sajid javid to the covid inquiry. we _ to the covid inquiry. we apologise for some of strong language. you can keep up to date with the covid inquiry on the bbc�*s at and the live page, but first, the lunchtime news. today at one... the four teenagers who disappeared on a camping trip to north wales all drowned. an inquest hears that the friends from shropshire died after their car crashed. new rules to protect young gymnasts. coaches will no longer be allowed to take pupils out of primary school to train. supermarket loyalty schemes — a review is to be launched into stores which give discounts only to customers who sign up. and another national park is to be created in england — the search for the best location will begin in the new year. and coming up on bbc news. uefa has stood down the var who made the decision to guide the referee to give psg their penalty last night in their champions league 1—1 draw against newcastle.