rise, junior doctors have had an 8.8% pay rise, that is it as far as he's concerned. so where does all this leave us and are used, the patient, today? how have you been impacted by the strikes? have you had apartment cancelled, have you had apartment cancelled, have you had limited time with consultants, are you unsure what all this means where it leaves you? radiographers are alsojoining the where it leaves you? radiographers are also joining the strike action tomorrow and they will be a really important part of this conversation. so let's hear from you this morning. you know the numbers to call, do get in touch now. those are the numbers to call, we would love to hear from you. we want to hear how this industrial action is directly impacting you, your family and yourfriends. is directly impacting you, your family and your friends. we will come to some of those calls in a moment. we will start off with the news from lisa. nhs bosses are warning of "extreme disruption" as junior doctors and consultants in england begin their three day strike — the longestjoint walk—out in nhs history. doctors want an above inflation pay rise but the government says this years offer is "fair and final". water companies in england want bills increased by more than £150 a year by 2030 to fund improved infrastructure. they've submitted plans to the regulator to spend £96 billion building new reservoirs, fixing leaky pipes and to cut the amount of sewage going into rivers. the chancellor will announce an increase to the national living wage when he makes his speech to the conservative party conference this afternoon. the hourly rate for workers over the age of 23 will go up from £10.42 — to £11 an hour. live aid is to be turned into a stage musical. called "just for one day", the show at the old vic in london will feature many of the songs performed at wembley in 1985. so, is all —— it's all about the strikes this morning and it's really basic. on one hand you have got the doctors are saying you need to pay us more, we'd seen the value of our pay 9° us more, we'd seen the value of our pay go down year after year and the impact this has on the nhs, well, it is haemorrhaging staff. nobody wants to work for it any more. so there you have a long term impact on patient care. on the other hand, patients affected by months of industrial action, this one is big, just because of the sheer numbers of doctors walking out in england. ultimately, it's about the health of your family member, ultimately, it's about the health of yourfamily member, you ultimately, it's about the health of your family member, you yourself personally, someone you know and love. you might be saying right now, just get back on the wards, we have to sort this out somehow but we can't do it by letting patients suffer in the meantime. we would love to hear from you this morning. someone says, i have been waiting for a hysterectomy, it has been cut is urgent. i was told pre—pandemic it would have been a six waiting time, currently have been waiting for 33 weeks and no imminent date. that isjust one for 33 weeks and no imminent date. that is just one example of thousands of people whose operations have been impacted. but notjust the strike action, all other reasons that waiting lists are being delayed and so much pressure on house apps in general. let's go to couple of corners. we can talk to dr abhay dhir. abhay, good morning. can you hear us? let's see if we can go to ta ellenberger. virginia dot on a picket line. can you hear us? goad picket line. can you hear us? good morninu. picket line. can you hear us? good morning. where _ picket line. can you hear us? good morning. where are _ picket line. can you hear us? good morning. where are you _ picket line. can you hear us? good morning. where are you at - picket line. can you hear us? good morning. where are you at the - morning. where are you at the moment? _ morning. where are you at the moment? i'm _ morning. where are you at the moment? i'm at _ morning. where are you at the moment? i'm at queen's - morning. where are you at the i moment? i'm at queen's medical centre in nottingham, _ moment? i'm at queen's medical centre in nottingham, where - moment? i'm at queen's medical. centre in nottingham, where we've got a growing picket line of both doctors and consultants, are angry about the same thing, about a 26% real terms pay cut since 2008, where the government are forcing doctors out of the door to australia, canada, new zealand and other industries in the uk that value their expertise.— industries in the uk that value their expertise. there has always been a movement _ their expertise. there has always been a movement of— their expertise. there has always been a movement of doctors, - their expertise. there has always i been a movement of doctors, junior doctors in particular early on in their career to other parts of the world, that's always existed, are you saying that is much worse now? it's much, much worse than it is now. it used to be a trickling of doctors seeking better conditions whereas now it is a wave of doctors who are going abroad because they can double their salary overnight. what i am also saying is that so many doctors i speak to you are saying they are still here in the nhs because they want to have one last opportunity to fight for patients. to fight for their ability to see a doctor in the nhs in a timely fashion, by keeping enough doctors here so we can provide that service. if that doesn't happen that they will be off as well with the rest of them. currently we have 7.7 million people on the waiting list. how much worse would get when an extra 10,000 people leave? what how much worse would get when an extra 10,000 people leave? what he saved to the — extra 10,000 people leave? what he saved to the woman _ extra 10,000 people leave? what he saved to the woman who _ extra 10,000 people leave? what he saved to the woman who texted - extra 10,000 people leave? what he saved to the woman who texted in i saved to the woman who texted in just heir who needs an urgent hysterectomy, who has been waiting 33 weeks? without strike action, that's may have happened more quickly. can you understand why she might feel frustrated with those of you on the picket line? {iii might feel frustrated with those of you on the picket line?— you on the picket line? of course i can understand. _ you on the picket line? of course i can understand. i— you on the picket line? of course i can understand. i echo _ you on the picket line? of course i can understand. i echo the - can understand. i echo the frustrations of all patients who are waiting for to long to be seen. but that's the fault of government and their mismanagement. if we look back to 2009, we had 2 million people in the waiting list. —— by 7.2 million. that was before we started striking. so the 36 weeks waiting time is due to the government underpaying staff, pushing them out, not resourcing the nhs, and it is suffering needlessly because the government are refusing to even negotiate or to have a credible workforce plan where doctors can be paid £20 per hour. as our health care not worth £20 per hour? ., v ., ' our health care not worth £20 per hour? . �*, . , ., hour? that's a different way of lookin: hour? that's a different way of looking at _ hour? that's a different way of looking at it. _ hour? that's a different way of looking at it. i— hour? that's a different way of looking at it. i could _ hour? that's a different way of looking at it. i could hear- hour? that's a different way of looking at it. i could hear a - hour? that's a different way of looking at it. i could hear a car beeping to show support behind you. we have to bring in michelle now. good morning, michelle. morning. tell us your current _ good morning, michelle. morning. tell us your current situation? - good morning, michelle. morning. tell us your current situation? i i tell us your current situation? i want my doctor last august with my achilles_ want my doctor last august with my achilles and i was given some painkillers and sent away. it got worse _ painkillers and sent away. it got worse and — painkillers and sent away. it got worse and i went back, i had an ultrasound _ worse and i went back, i had an ultrasound scan, then i was sent to a consultant, which was in march, so from _ a consultant, which was in march, so from august— a consultant, which was in march, so from august to march. they sent me for an— from august to march. they sent me for an urgent from august to march. they sent me foran urgent mri from august to march. they sent me for an urgent mri scan. they said they wanted to see me back within ten weeks — they wanted to see me back within ten weeks and if i hadn't heard i was to— ten weeks and if i hadn't heard i was to contact the secretary. i contacted — was to contact the secretary. i contacted the secretary, but an appointment and it was cancelled due to the _ appointment and it was cancelled due to the first _ appointment and it was cancelled due to the first lot of strikes. got an appointment, they went on strike again. _ appointment, they went on strike again, cancelled again. put another point _ again, cancelled again. put another point for— again, cancelled again. put another point for the 4th of august, the romulus— point for the 4th of august, the romulus last week and said it was cancelled — romulus last week and said it was cancelled again due to the strikes. i've now— cancelled again due to the strikes. i've now got an appointment for the 11th of— i've now got an appointment for the 11th of august, sorry, the 11th of october. — 11th of august, sorry, the 11th of october. if_ 11th of august, sorry, the 11th of october, if they decide they are working — october, if they decide they are working. if they don't cancel it then — working. if they don't cancel it then. ., , , ., working. if they don't cancel it then. ., , f. working. if they don't cancel it then. ., , , . then. how is this all effecting you physically? _ then. how is this all effecting you physically? it _ then. how is this all effecting you physically? it affects _ then. how is this all effecting you physically? it affects me - then. how is this all effecting you | physically? it affects me physically because i physically? it affects me physically because i can't— physically? it affects me physically because i can't walk, _ physically? it affects me physically because i can't walk, can't - physically? it affects me physically because i can't walk, can't work, l physically? it affects me physically because i can't walk, can't work, i | because i can't walk, can't work, i have _ because i can't walk, can't work, i have had — because i can't walk, can't work, i have had to — because i can't walk, can't work, i have had to go on to universal credit— have had to go on to universal credit and _ have had to go on to universal credit and sick pay, and it'sjust, i credit and sick pay, and it'sjust, i can't _ credit and sick pay, and it'sjust, i can't sleep, i'm in pain, i'm ican't sleep, i'm in pain, i'm taking— i can't sleep, i'm in pain, i'm taking tramadol painkillers which have never taken in my life. taking tramadol painkillers which have nevertaken in my life. i'm taking— have nevertaken in my life. i'm taking sleeping tablets to try and sleen _ taking sleeping tablets to try and sleen i_ taking sleeping tablets to try and sleep. i cannot get comfy with the problem _ sleep. i cannot get comfy with the problem i've got, because i can't keep— problem i've got, because i can't keep my— problem i've got, because i can't keep my foot in the same direction to stop _ keep my foot in the same direction to stop the — keep my foot in the same direction to stop the pain. how keep my foot in the same direction to stop the pain-— to stop the pain. how do you feel about the doctors _ to stop the pain. how do you feel about the doctors on _ to stop the pain. how do you feel about the doctors on the - to stop the pain. how do you feel about the doctors on the picket i to stop the pain. how do you feel l about the doctors on the picket line today? i about the doctors on the picket line toda ? ., �* , about the doctors on the picket line toda? ~' about the doctors on the picket line toda ? ~' �*, ., , ., about the doctors on the picket line toda? ~ today? i think it's appalling, to be honest. i was _ today? i think it's appalling, to be honest. i was in _ today? i think it's appalling, to be honest. iwas in hell— today? i think it's appalling, to be honest. i was in hell for— today? i think it's appalling, to be honest. i was in hell for 27 - today? i think it's appalling, to be honest. i was in hell for 27 years i honest. i was in hell for 27 years and i_ honest. i was in hell for 27 years and i stuck— honest. i was in hell for 27 years and i stuck by my patients on a minimum — and i stuck by my patients on a minimum wage. we did jobs for those doctors _ minimum wage. we did jobs for those doctors and _ minimum wage. we did jobs for those doctors and nurses. we couldn't do every— doctors and nurses. we couldn't do everyioh_ doctors and nurses. we couldn't do everyjob but we stuck by, we had a duty of— everyjob but we stuck by, we had a duty of care — everyjob but we stuck by, we had a duty of care. it's an absolute disgrace. _ duty of care. it's an absolute disgrace, the nhs. let duty of care. it's an absolute disgrace, the nhs.— duty of care. it's an absolute disgrace, the nhs. let me bring in the doctor on _ disgrace, the nhs. let me bring in the doctor on the _ disgrace, the nhs. let me bring in the doctor on the picket _ disgrace, the nhs. let me bring in the doctor on the picket line - disgrace, the nhs. let me bring in the doctor on the picket line who l disgrace, the nhs. let me bring in i the doctor on the picket line who we were talking to just now. towel, you can talk directly to michelle, what you want to say to her?— you want to say to her? michelle, i'm so you want to say to her? michelle, i'm so sorry _ you want to say to her? michelle, i'm so sorry to — you want to say to her? michelle, i'm so sorry to hear— you want to say to her? michelle, i'm so sorry to hear your - you want to say to her? michelle, i'm so sorry to hear your pain - you want to say to her? michelle, i'm so sorry to hear your pain andj i'm so sorry to hear your pain and your— i'm so sorry to hear your pain and your anguish. i'm so sorry to hear your pain and youranguish. it�*s i'm so sorry to hear your pain and your anguish-— i'm so sorry to hear your pain and your anguish. it's a good enough, i auree. your anguish. it's a good enough, i agree- it's — your anguish. it's a good enough, i agree. it's unacceptable _ your anguish. it's a good enough, i agree. it's unacceptable that - your anguish. it's a good enough, i agree. it's unacceptable that you i agree. it's unacceptable that you are having to wait from august until march for an appointment in the first place. but what i feel is that i speak for so first place. but what i feel is that i speakfor so many first place. but what i feel is that i speak for so many patients who have similar stories where they're having appointments cancelled over and over and it goes back to before the strikes, last august we were not on strike at that point and this is because there are not enough doctors in the health service because they are leaving. i would patients like you to be seen quicker. i'm training to be an orthopaedic surgeon, so in a similarfield and i want to be able to see patients within a few weeks, not a few months or years. what i see here in that —— is that we are unable to do that because our waiting lists grow as there are not the doctors there to see you. we are here notjust because we are looking to get paid £20 per, we are here because we want to be able to have a fully staffed health care service, world—class care service which we used to deliver back in 2010 when the waiting lists were a fraction of what they are now. did you see on the 4th of august, there was the last appointment cancelled? filth the 4th of august, there was the last appointment cancelled? 4th of october. last appointment cancelled? 4th of october- i'm _ last appointment cancelled? 4th of october. i'm so _ last appointment cancelled? 4th of october. i'm so sorry _ last appointment cancelled? 4th of october. i'm so sorry that's - last appointment cancelled? 4th of october. i'm so sorry that's been l october. i'm so sorry that's been cancelled. _ october. i'm so sorry that's been cancelled, genuinely _ october. i'm so sorry that's been cancelled, genuinely really - october. i'm so sorry that's been cancelled, genuinely really sorry| cancelled, genuinely really sorry that's been cancelled. you can't be that's been cancelled. you can't be that sorry otherwise you wouldn't be out on strike. the that sorry otherwise you wouldn't be out on strike-— out on strike. the nhs and never, ever aet out on strike. the nhs and never, ever get back _ out on strike. the nhs and never, ever get back to _ out on strike. the nhs and never, ever get back to what _ out on strike. the nhs and never, ever get back to what it _ out on strike. the nhs and never, ever get back to what it was. - out on strike. the nhs and never, ever get back to what it was. you | ever get back to what it was. you see are _ ever get back to what it was. you see are walking out because of pay rise and _ see are walking out because of pay rise and you want more money. you are going _ rise and you want more money. you are going to— rise and you want more money. you are going to a — rise and you want more money. you are going to a job, you the weight you enter— are going to a job, you the weight you enter the job to take. people go into a _ you enter the job to take. people go into a shop— you enter the job to take. people go into a shop to work for £7, £8 an hour, _ into a shop to work for £7, £8 an hour, they— into a shop to work for £7, £8 an hour, they know what wage they are taken _ hour, they know what wage they are taken when — hour, they know what wage they are taken when they accept the job. it is not _ taken when they accept the job. it is not enough for you, do something different _ is not enough for you, do something different i_ is not enough for you, do something different. ., , ., is not enough for you, do something different. . , ., . is not enough for you, do something different. ., , ., ., ., different. i hear your anger and i hear your— different. i hear your anger and i hear your pain. _ different. i hear your anger and i hear your pain, but _ different. i hear your anger and i hear your pain, but i _ different. i hear your anger and i hear your pain, but i think - different. i hear your anger and i hear your pain, but i think it's i hear your pain, but i think it's unfairto hear your pain, but i think it's unfair to say that we went into this job knowing what our wage would be full so when i went into this job, when i started training in 2014, a doctor was paid 30% more than they were paid today and we're not asking to be paid more than that, we are asking to go back to where we were, but seen is that there are 10,000 british trained doctors abroad in australia and new zealand, that's the number of gaps we have here. can you imagine the kind of service you would get if those were brought back? pay would be brought to be. i know lots of people are struggling at the moment and the financial times did an article recently looking at pay cuts across the uk, they found the average worker is down 2.5% on their pay since 2009 foot to the average nurse is down 13% in the average doctor is down 24%. i 13% in the average doctor is down 2496. ., , 1396 in the average doctor is down 2496. ., , .,, 1396 in the average doctor is down 2496. ., , ., , , 1396 in the average doctor is down 2496. ., , , 2496. i have seen those graphs as well. 2496. i have seen those graphs as well- thank _ 2496. i have seen those graphs as well. thank you _ 2496. i have seen those graphs as well. thank you very _ 2496. i have seen those graphs as well. thank you very much. - 2496. i have seen those graphs as well. thank you very much. we . 2496. i have seen those graphs as. well. thank you very much. we are going to move it on to similar calls now. michelle, iwish going to move it on to similar calls now. michelle, i wish you all the best in your ongoing treatment because it like a nightmare that you are trapped in at the moment so i hope you do get seen by someone soon. just on affordability, a texture, nobody is mentioning where all the extra money will come from, who will pay more taxes to fund it. we already have a very high taxes. the fact is, the nhs cannot be afforded in its present form and that has to be one of the discussions in the background of all of this, if the doctors want the pay rise, how do we afford it, what choices need to be made in order to fund that? lets to another picket line. the reason is written about this morning. are you? == line. the reason is written about this morning. are you?- this morning. are you? -- mike louisa this morning. are you? -- mike louisa is— this morning. are you? -- mike louisa is out — this morning. are you? -- mike louisa is out and _ this morning. are you? -- mike louisa is out and about. - this morning. are you? -- mike louisa is out and about. i - louisa is out and about. i am at university college hospital in central london. there is a picket line here of consultants and junior doctors, they have come together for the first time apart from the strike that happened just over a week ago, so that meansjoint that happened just over a week ago, so that means joint action is much unprecedented. and on the words here at this hospital and other hospitals, it brings staffing levels down to christmas days staffing, as it is called, which means it's the minimum level for safety on the words of a hospital like this. and why are they striking? it's because of pay, also because of conditions, as you've been hearing, it's because doctors want they paid to be restored to 2008 levels and that would mean a rise of 35%. the government have offered consultants around 6% on average and they have offered junior doctors around 8%. they say that's fair and they are not getting round the table, and the doctors here have been telling me that they would be willing to potentially stop this strike action pretty much immediately or in the next couple of days because they would then be round the table with the government, but the government are refusing, they say, to come to the table. so that's what the situation here is a must for the doctors are outside this hospital today. i doctors are outside this hospital toda . ~ ., doctors are outside this hospital toda . ., ., ., ., , doctors are outside this hospital toda. ~ ., ., ., , today. i know alongside you, you have a consultant _ today. i know alongside you, you have a consultant anaesthetist, l today. i know alongside you, you have a consultant anaesthetist, i | have a consultant anaesthetist, i think we can talk to him as well? com, can you hear us? == think we can talk to him as well? com, can you hear us?— think we can talk to him as well? com, can you hear us? -- tom. good morning- _ com, can you hear us? -- tom. good morning- do — com, can you hear us? -- tom. good morning- do you _ com, can you hear us? -- tom. good morning. do you have _ com, can you hear us? -- tom. good morning. do you have a _ com, can you hear us? -- tom. good morning. do you have a difficult - morning. do you have a difficult internal moral— morning. do you have a difficult internal moral struggle - morning. do you have a difficult internal moral struggle with - morning. do you have a difficult - internal moral struggle with making this decision to go on strike, knowing there are patients who are sick and desperately need your care? obviously when we hear stories like michelle's, — obviously when we hear stories like michelle's, is difficult to because we know— michelle's, is difficult to because we know that patients are waiting for care, — we know that patients are waiting for care, we also know before the strikes _ for care, we also know before the strikes there were over 7 million people _ strikes there were over 7 million people waiting for care. we know that the — people waiting for care. we know that the nhs is really struggling so we're _ that the nhs is really struggling so we're thinking about the long—term where _ we're thinking about the long—term where we _ we're thinking about the long—term where we know we struggling to recruit _ where we know we struggling to recruit and retain staff in the nhs, we know— recruit and retain staff in the nhs, we know a — recruit and retain staff in the nhs, we know a big part of that is the fact our— we know a big part of that is the fact our pay has been cut by 35% and we know _ fact our pay has been cut by 35% and we know if— fact our pay has been cut by 35% and we know if we don't sort it out it's going _ we know if we don't sort it out it's going to _ we know if we don't sort it out it's going to get harder and harder for patients— going to get harder and harder for patients to get the care they need in the _ patients to get the care they need in the nhs. that's the balance we are doing — in the nhs. that's the balance we are doing as doctors in our minds, thinking _ are doing as doctors in our minds, thinking about the longer term over the shorter— thinking about the longer term over the shorter term.— the shorter term. what kind of appointments _ the shorter term. what kind of appointments you _ the shorter term. what kind of appointments you have -- - the shorter term. what kind of| appointments you have -- have the shorter term. what kind of- appointments you have -- have you appointments you have —— have you had to cancel personally? i’m appointments you have -- have you had to cancel personally?— had to cancel personally? i'm an anaesthetist, _ had to cancel personally? i'm an anaesthetist, and _ had to cancel personally? i'm an anaesthetist, and only _ had to cancel personally? i'm an anaesthetist, and only work - had to cancel personally? i'm an anaesthetist, and only work on i had to cancel personally? i'm an i anaesthetist, and only work on the operating — anaesthetist, and only work on the operating theatre, and on a day like today— operating theatre, and on a day like today i_ operating theatre, and on a day like today i would be doing cases like ent or breast surgery, all because of different things so it varies. if of different things so it varies. if the of different things so it varies. the health of different things so it varies. if the health secretary is going to maintain his position, and he says he's not going to back, back to the table to negotiate, that negotiation is close, what are your options? the government — is close, what are your options? the government has given us another below— government has given us another below inflation pay rise, or actually _ below inflation pay rise, or actually a pay cut this year. we know _ actually a pay cut this year. we know that _ actually a pay cut this year. we know that doctors are continuing to leave _ know that doctors are continuing to leave this _ know that doctors are continuing to leave this country, we know they can io leave this country, we know they can go to— leave this country, we know they can go to australia or canada, they could _ go to australia or canada, they could even— go to australia or canada, they could even go to ireland and double the salary — could even go to ireland and double the salary. we are struggling to recruit— the salary. we are struggling to recruit and retain them. if you don't — recruit and retain them. if you don't get _ recruit and retain them. if you don't get a _ recruit and retain them. if you don't get a pay back to where it was in 2008 _ don't get a pay back to where it was in 2008 they will continue to struggle. the nhs is already struggling immensely. we won't be able to— struggling immensely. we won't be able to get on top of the back—up without— able to get on top of the back—up without the stop we need. the government knows they need to come back to _ government knows they need to come back to the _ government knows they need to come back to the table, they are just trying — back to the table, they are just trying to— back to the table, they are just trying to wait us out. it's not going — trying to wait us out. it's not going to _ trying to wait us out. it's not going to work, we are not diminished in our— going to work, we are not diminished in our strength in our desire to see this dispute — in our strength in our desire to see this dispute resolved and we know that we _ this dispute resolved and we know that we had to do that not just for us but _ that we had to do that not just for us but for— that we had to do that not just for us but for the patients. that we had to do that not 'ust for us but for the patients._ that we had to do that not 'ust for us but for the patients. doctor tom dolhin, a us but for the patients. doctor tom dolphin, a consultant _ us but for the patients. doctor tom dolphin, a consultant anaesthetistl dolphin, a consultant anaesthetist on strike this morning in london. we will hear more from stricken doctors in a minute but let's go back to the patients who are affected by all of this. we can talk to nicola and ben and simon. nicola, you have a couple of things going on? yes. and simon. nicola, you have a couple of things going on?— of things going on? yes, i have. firstl , of things going on? yes, i have. firstly. my _ of things going on? yes, i have. firstly. my son _ of things going on? yes, i have. firstly, my son should _ of things going on? yes, i have. firstly, my son should have - of things going on? yes, i have. firstly, my son should have had| firstly, my son should have had minor surgery tomorrow. friday evening we got a phone call to say it had been cancelled due to strikes. he is ten years old and he's been waiting two years. hagar strikes. he is ten years old and he's been waiting two years. how did ou exlain he's been waiting two years. how did you explain that _ he's been waiting two years. how did you explain that to _ he's been waiting two years. how did you explain that to him? _ he's been waiting two years. how did you explain that to him? all - he's been waiting two years. how did you explain that to him? all week- you explain that to him? all week i've been gearing _ you explain that to him? all week i've been gearing him _ you explain that to him? all week i've been gearing him up - you explain that to him? all week i've been gearing him up and - i've been gearing him up and explaining what would happen and he just cried. he said, what now? i answer him. i couldn't say how long we have to wait for the surgery now. has a big been given any indication at all? also i was born with dysplasia of the hip as a child. 18 months old i had three operations on it. it's now come to the stage in my life where i need any hipper. aha, full life where i need any hipper. a full hip replacement — life where i need any hipper. a full hip replacement which _ life where i need any hipper. a full hip replacement which is _ life where i need any hipper. a full hip replacement which is put - life where i need any hipper. fill hip replacement which is put on the 17th of this month. —— i need any hipper. i've had to give up work because of the pain. i'm a mother of seven, a grandmother of six. i understand, i'm very much on the side of the doctors and the surgeons, they are superstars, you can't take that away from them, but their pay, they are on strike for their pay, they are on strike for their pay, they are on strike for their pay, i totally get that, they do deserve more money. how many lives would be lost if there weren't those sort of people in hospitals? but hard as their pay affect carpe? waiting for an operation so i can go back to work. nobody is thinking of where they are putting the patients in any of this. it does have a knock—on effect. how many people are having to claim disability, having to claim pip? brute having to claim disability, having to claim pip?— having to claim disability, having to claim pip? ~ ., ., to claim pip? we were hearing from michelle about _ to claim pip? we were hearing from michelle about not _ to claim pip? we were hearing from michelle about not being _ to claim pip? we were hearing from michelle about not being able, - michelle about not being able, having to go on heavy painkillers to deal with her ongoing issues. i am dealwith her ongoing issues. i am on morphine _ dealwith her ongoing issues. i am on morphine all _ dealwith her ongoing issues. i am on morphine all the _ deal with her ongoing issues. i —n on morphine all the time, it's not a good way to live. people's health is priceless why stop someone else who is in a situation where time is of the essence, ben and oxford his wife is 39 weeks pregnant. iloafere the essence, ben and oxford his wife is 39 weeks pregnant. were supposed to be induced — is 39 weeks pregnant. were supposed to be induced at _ is 39 weeks pregnant. were supposed to be induced at 39 _ is 39 weeks pregnant. were supposed to be induced at 39 weeks, _ is 39 weeks pregnant. were supposed to be induced at 39 weeks, which - is 39 weeks pregnant. were supposed to be induced at 39 weeks, which was| to be induced at 39 weeks, which was saturday. we went into the hospital staff advised there was super. we were _ staff advised there was super. we were sent — staff advised there was super. we were sent a saturday night, who told the bbc_ were sent a saturday night, who told the bbc is _ were sent a saturday night, who told the bbc is doing well, but due to medical— the bbc is doing well, but due to medical conditions, we can't go over 40 weeks. _ medical conditions, we can't go over 40 weeks, which is on friday. so we are kind _ 40 weeks, which is on friday. so we are kind of— 40 weeks, which is on friday. so we are kind of in— 40 weeks, which is on friday. so we are kind of in limbo, waiting for a call to— are kind of in limbo, waiting for a call to come _ are kind of in limbo, waiting for a call to come in because there is a huge _ call to come in because there is a huge waiting list on the delivery suite _ huge waiting list on the delivery suite at — huge waiting list on the delivery suite at the moment. inductions are about, _ suite at the moment. inductions are about, there — suite at the moment. inductions are about, there are about eight of us waiting _ about, there are about eight of us waiting to — about, there are about eight of us waiting to be induced. what i understand is that planned cesarean is are _ understand is that planned cesarean is are being added to that induction list. people are due to have that operation, — list. people are due to have that operation, they are now being induced — operation, they are now being induced. so itjust adds operation, they are now being induced. so it just adds an increasing amount of worry, concern, anxiety, _ increasing amount of worry, concern, anxiety, into— increasing amount of worry, concern, anxiety into a — increasing amount of worry, concern, anxiety, into a very stressful situation _ anxiety, into a very stressful situation. if anxiety, into a very stressful situation-— anxiety, into a very stressful situation. , ., ., , ., situation. if your wife goes into labour naturally, _ situation. if your wife goes into labour naturally, then - situation. if your wife goes into labour naturally, then all- situation. if your wife goes into labour naturally, then all well. situation. if your wife goes into i labour naturally, then all well and good, is there any particular reason she needs to be induced? she good, is there any particular reason she needs to be induced?— she needs to be induced? she is diabetic. she needs to be induced? she is diabetic- so _ she needs to be induced? she is diabetic. so there _ she needs to be induced? she is diabetic. so there is _ she needs to be induced? she is diabetic. so there is concern - she needs to be induced? she is| diabetic. so there is concern over the fluids— diabetic. so there is concern over the fluids in— diabetic. so there is concern over the fluids in the womb, so it's a precaution, _ the fluids in the womb, so it's a precaution, inducing. they said if it goes— precaution, inducing. they said if it goes past tuesday, tomorrow, they will get _ it goes past tuesday, tomorrow, they will get us _ it goes past tuesday, tomorrow, they will get us back in for an observation but there is no guarantee when we will get to the delivery— guarantee when we will get to the delivery suite. if she goes into labour. — delivery suite. if she goes into labour, they have said which he can io labour, they have said which he can go and _ labour, they have said which he can go and we — labour, they have said which he can go and we will be dealt with. but on a nonemergency level. | go and we will be dealt with. but on a nonemergency level.— a nonemergency level. i mean, my heart goes — a nonemergency level. i mean, my heart goes out _ a nonemergency level. i mean, my heart goes out to _ a nonemergency level. i mean, my heart goes out to you. _ a nonemergency level. i mean, my heart goes out to you. i _ a nonemergency level. i mean, my heart goes out to you. i absolutely| heart goes out to you. i absolutely am with you, those final stages of pregnancy, there is anxiety, no doubt about it. how do you feel about the doctors taking the strike action? , ., �* , action? every doctor we've spoken to, action? every doctor we've spoken to. because _ action? every doctor we've spoken to. because we — action? every doctor we've spoken to, because we are _ action? every doctor we've spoken to, because we are being - action? every doctor we've spoken i to, because we are being consultant led, to, because we are being consultant led. they— to, because we are being consultant led, they have been phenomenal. all the midwives and nurses, they do so much _ the midwives and nurses, they do so much and _ the midwives and nurses, they do so much and they go over and above, so i much and they go over and above, so i agree _ much and they go over and above, so i agree they— much and they go over and above, so i agree they do need a pay rise, they— i agree they do need a pay rise, they are — i agree they do need a pay rise, they are asking for something that is reflective of the work level, absolutely. it's the collateral damage and the pressure it puts on the midwives, nurses and the patients— the midwives, nurses and the patients that goes around that situation. the midwives to a phenomenaljob as it is. it's that ongoing — phenomenaljob as it is. it's that ongoing problem that needs to be dealt _ ongoing problem that needs to be dealt with at the top. it doesn't need _ dealt with at the top. it doesn't need to— dealt with at the top. it doesn't need to get this far. best dealt with at the top. it doesn't need to get this far.— dealt with at the top. it doesn't need to get this far. best of luck to ou need to get this far. best of luck to you and _ need to get this far. best of luck to you and your— need to get this far. best of luck to you and your wife, _ need to get this far. best of luck to you and your wife, we - need to get this far. best of luck to you and your wife, we will. need to get this far. best of luck to you and your wife, we will be | to you and your wife, we will be thinking of you, hope it all goes 0k. thinking of you, hope it all goes ok. ben in oxford. i think we've got simon as well, are you on the line? i'm here, how are you?— simon as well, are you on the line? i'm here, how are you? what's your current situation? _ i'm here, how are you? what's your current situation? compared - i'm here, how are you? what's your current situation? compared with i i'm here, how are you? what's your. current situation? compared with the revious current situation? compared with the previous colours _ current situation? compared with the previous colours i _ current situation? compared with the previous colours i have _ current situation? compared with the previous colours i have nothing -- i previous colours i have nothing —— macaws, it's not so bad. i went to my gp six months ago, i said, i got this mole on my head on the side of my face. i've got medical people in my face. i've got medical people in my family who said i needed to have a look to. she said, you need to have a look at. two weeks later i'm having having photographs and good side video done, that went to the dermatologist, i should side video done, that went to the dermatologist, ishould have side video done, that went to the dermatologist, i should have been seeing them this afternoon. probably its skin cancer but not something i need to worry about particularly. but i don't blame any of the doctors, then the government. i firmly blame the government for this mess. a couple of years ago, these people were stood clapping the nhs and saying how all the doctors and other staff are all heroes and everything else. and they had plenty of money to pour into the pockets of their champions with made up ppe deals and track and trace that didn't work and now we have investigations into fraud. we had loads of money for that. now we haven't got any money to pay doctors and keep people alive every single day of the week, and i am fuming, as you may be able to tell. i day of the week, and i am fuming, as you may be able to tell.— you may be able to tell. i can hear that, quietly _ you may be able to tell. i can hear that, quietly fuming _ you may be able to tell. i can hear that, quietly fuming and _ you may be able to tell. i can hear that, quietly fuming and a - you may be able to tell. i can hear that, quietly fuming and a very i that, quietly fuming and a very considered way and i respect that. absolutely, and i didn't use any swear words! i absolutely, and i didn't use any swear words!— absolutely, and i didn't use any swear words! . , , . ., ., swear words! i appreciate that. the thin is, swear words! i appreciate that. the thing is, say _ swear words! i appreciate that. the thing is, say the — swear words! i appreciate that. the thing is, say the health _ swear words! i appreciate that. the thing is, say the health secretary l thing is, say the health secretary came back to the table and met all the demands, there is the question how you pay for it. you can take money from one budget and put it into the health service, you can put up into the health service, you can put up taxes, already people are facing the highest levels of taxes in this country... the highest levels of taxes in this count , ., the highest levels of taxes in this count , . , ., country... yes, and where is all that money _ country... yes, and where is all that money being _ country... yes, and where is all that money being spent? - country... yes, and where is all that money being spent? is - country... yes, and where is all that money being spent? is it l country... yes, and where is all- that money being spent? is it being spent on services for the people? no, it's going to cut, allegedly, inheritance tax for the richest 2% of the country. brute inheritance tax for the richest 296 of the country-— inheritance tax for the richest 296 of the country. we will wait to see on that one- _ of the country. we will wait to see on that one. don't _ of the country. we will wait to see on that one. don't make - of the country. we will wait to see on that one. don't make me - of the country. we will wait to see j on that one. don't make me laugh about higher _ on that one. don't make me laugh about higher taxation. _ on that one. don't make me laugh about higher taxation. i _ on that one. don't make me laugh about higher taxation. i don't - on that one. don't make me laugh| about higher taxation. i don't want to make you swear either, salmond, so we will move it on the thank you very much. i think the nhs is the single greatest thing that ever happened in this country. ok. single greatest thing that ever happened in this country. ok, and it has ou happened in this country. ok, and it has you backing _ happened in this country. ok, and it has you backing all— happened in this country. ok, and it has you backing all the _ happened in this country. ok, and it has you backing all the way. - happened in this country. ok, and it has you backing all the way. and - happened in this country. ok, and it has you backing all the way. and it i has you backing all the way. and it continues to _ has you backing all the way. and it continues to be _ has you backing all the way. and it continues to be so. _ has you backing all the way. and it continues to be so. you _ has you backing all the way. and it continues to be so. you take - has you backing all the way. and it continues to be so. you take care. continues to be so. you take care and make — continues to be so. you take care and make sure _ continues to be so. you take care and make sure you _ continues to be so. you take care and make sure you get _ continues to be so. you take care and make sure you get that - continues to be so. you take care and make sure you get that mole j and make sure you get that mole looked at because it is not insignificant. i know compared to other people because my situations but everything needs care and attention. let me read you this for the health secretary, he says he is deeply disappointed and concerned about further coordinated strike action which poses continue challenges for nhs and disruption for patients. he also quotes that number1 million appointments being rescheduled due to he says the bma's hardline stance mean this number will only continue rising. i urge unions to end their relentless strike action. doctors have a and reasonable pay rise as recommended by the independent pay review body which we have accepted in full. as the graph of the doctors? let's hear from a couple of them. we have got dr abhay and drjames david reed, i think one of them is on strike, the other possibly not. abhay, you are on strike today?— other possibly not. abhay, you are on strike today?_ your. on strike today? yes, i am. your osition on strike today? yes, i am. your position on _ on strike today? yes, i am. your position on all— on strike today? yes, i am. your position on all of— on strike today? yes, i am. your position on all of this, _ on strike today? yes, i am. your position on all of this, then - on strike today? yes, i am. your position on all of this, then with | position on all of this, then with yellow i am 100% for the strikes. i started about a year ago and in that time i have seen many of my colleagues move abroad. in the recent strikes, _ colleagues move abroad. in the recent strikes, i've _ colleagues move abroad. in the recent strikes, i've seen, - colleagues move abroad. in the recent strikes, i've seen, i - colleagues move abroad. in the | recent strikes, i've seen, i think that statement you read from the health secretary epitomises that, the team of the strikes, the kind of painting the doctors as if it were averages for asking to just go back to what we were used to being paid. mr barclay keeps talking about how it is on us but actually, it's on the government to pay us fairly, and look after their citizens. we have all taken note and we are covering that. wejust all taken note and we are covering that. we just want to be met halfway and the government is not doing that. 50 and the government is not doing that, , ., ., ., and the government is not doing that. , ., ., ., ., that. so you are admitting that the demand for — that. so you are admitting that the demand for whatever _ that. so you are admitting that the demand for whatever it _ that. so you are admitting that the demand for whatever it was, - that. so you are admitting that the demand for whatever it was, 3596 i that. so you are admitting that the i demand for whatever it was, 3596 pay demand for whatever it was, 35% pay rise i think the bma was looking for thejunior rise i think the bma was looking for the junior doctors, that's unrealistic, just kind of mobile commerce are throwing a number out there because i know you're talking about restoring pay with that kind of increase, but you're not necessarily expecting to get that? i can't speak for the bma but what i can't speak for the bma but what i can say is that the two parties need to meet in the middle of negotiating table. when one of the parties is refusing to do so, no wonder these strikes are going to continue because we have an empty table. ok. james, do because we have an empty table. ok. james. do you — because we have an empty table. 0k. james, do you agree with what abhay said just there? i james, do you agree with what abhay said just there?— said just there? i have to say i don't. i don't _ said just there? i have to say i don't. i don't support - said just there? i have to say i don't. i don't support the - said just there? i have to say i i don't. i don't support the strike don't. idon't support the strike action— don't. idon't support the strike action at— don't. i don't support the strike action at all. we have had some of the stories— action at all. we have had some of the stories and these are real human stories~ _ the stories and these are real human stories. these are real people who have _ stories. these are real people who have been— stories. these are real people who have been impacted directly by the strike _ have been impacted directly by the strike action. as a doctor in fundamentaljob is to deal with the patient _ fundamentaljob is to deal with the patient in — fundamentaljob is to deal with the patient in front of you, to deliver the care — patient in front of you, to deliver the care and if by going on you are failing _ the care and if by going on you are failing in— the care and if by going on you are failing in that duty straightaway, and the — failing in that duty straightaway, and the real human impact at a time when _ and the real human impact at a time when we've — and the real human impact at a time when we've already got long waiting lists and _ when we've already got long waiting lists and staff under pressure, is making — lists and staff under pressure, is making matters much worse for our patients _ making matters much worse for our patients and that feels to be incompatible with our duties as doctors — incompatible with our duties as doctors. �* , ., incompatible with our duties as doctors. . , ,., incompatible with our duties as doctors. a ., ., doctors. abhay, you want to respond to that? waiting — doctors. abhay, you want to respond to that? waiting list _ doctors. abhay, you want to respond to that? waiting list have _ doctors. abhay, you want to respond to that? waiting list have been - to that? waiting list have been auoin u- to that? waiting list have been going up for— to that? waiting list have been going up for years _ to that? waiting list have been going up for years and - to that? waiting list have been going up for years and the - to that? waiting list have been going up for years and the kind to that? waiting list have been i going up for years and the kind of question is, if not now then when? how long will we keep taking this before we just collapse? i think we are taking this action for a better day now the future. i don't understand the connection with people wanting more money and waiting _ with people wanting more money and waiting lists being reduced. everyone will do the same amount of work, _ everyone will do the same amount of work. the _ everyone will do the same amount of work, the doctors on strike are not expecting — work, the doctors on strike are not expecting to work any more if they -et expecting to work any more if they get extra _ expecting to work any more if they get extra money so it's hard to see white _ get extra money so it's hard to see white paying doctors more money will lead to _ white paying doctors more money will lead to a _ white paying doctors more money will lead to a reduction in waiting lists — lead to a reduction in waiting lists. �* , ., lead to a reduction in waiting lists. a ., ., .,., , lists. abhay, do you want to answer that? i lists. abhay, do you want to answer that? i cannot _ lists. abhay, do you want to answer that? i cannot speak— lists. abhay, do you want to answer that? i cannot speak for _ lists. abhay, do you want to answer that? i cannot speak for the - lists. abhay, do you want to answer that? i cannot speak for the upper i that? i cannot speak for the upper management _ that? i cannot speak for the upper management levels _ that? i cannot speak for the upper management levels of _ that? i cannot speak for the upper management levels of the - that? i cannot speak for the upper management levels of the nhs i that? i cannot speak for the upper| management levels of the nhs but that? i cannot speak for the upper l management levels of the nhs but i can see the knock—on effect with doctors and junior doctors leaving the country, there is less staff. i do see what you mean it's not necessarily a cause and effect, a knock—on correlation, doctors not being paid enough, doctors leaving and then not having the same levels of staff to be able to cover these lists. , ., , ., , of staff to be able to cover these lists. . . , ., , ., of staff to be able to cover these lists, . ., , ., , ., ., ., lists. james, that is a fundamental oint, lists. james, that is a fundamental point, how— lists. james, that is a fundamental point. how do _ lists. james, that is a fundamental point, how do you _ lists. james, that is a fundamental point, how do you stop _ lists. james, that is a fundamental point, how do you stop doctors - point, how do you stop doctors leaving the nhs so there is a spiralling problem with fewer staff on the wards, more staff under pressure, more stress, more doctors leaving because they cannot cope with that. how do you stem the flow? there is no shortage of people wanting — there is no shortage of people wanting to be doctors, every year medical— wanting to be doctors, every year medical schools are oversubscribed so we _ medical schools are oversubscribed so we don't — medical schools are oversubscribed so we don't seem to have a problem with people — so we don't seem to have a problem with people wanting to come and be doctors _ with people wanting to come and be doctors but i think we need to record — doctors but i think we need to record and select the right people. lots record and select the right people. lots of— record and select the right people. lots of people leave medicine altogether so we need to select people — altogether so we need to select people who want to come and work as doctors _ people who want to come and work as doctors. fine_ people who want to come and work as doctors. . , ., people who want to come and work as doctors. �* ,, ._ people who want to come and work as doctors. . y., ._ ,., ., doctors. are you saying some of the --eole doctors. are you saying some of the people moving _ doctors. are you saying some of the people moving into _ doctors. are you saying some of the people moving into the _ doctors. are you saying some of the people moving into the health - people moving into the health service are not resilient? it’s people moving into the health service are not resilient? it's not bad, it's service are not resilient? it's not bad. it's when — service are not resilient? it's not bad, it's when you _ service are not resilient? it's not bad, it's when you go _ service are not resilient? it's not bad, it's when you go to - service are not resilient? it's not bad, it's when you go to medicalj bad, it's when you go to medical school— bad, it's when you go to medical school a — bad, it's when you go to medical school a lot— bad, it's when you go to medical school a lot of people do not necessarily understand what they are letting _ necessarily understand what they are letting themselves in for. five years— letting themselves in for. five years away is a long way away so we need _ years away is a long way away so we need to _ years away is a long way away so we need to be _ years away is a long way away so we need to be better at selecting people — need to be better at selecting people at the start, people who are dedicated _ people at the start, people who are dedicated and keen to work. a lot of medical— dedicated and keen to work. a lot of medical students do not go into specialist — medical students do not go into specialist training for various reasons— specialist training for various reasons so it's something to do there _ reasons so it's something to do there but— reasons so it's something to do there but ultimately, we need to say medicine _ there but ultimately, we need to say medicine is — there but ultimately, we need to say medicine is meant to be a vocation, something — medicine is meant to be a vocation, something you want today. the rate of pay, _ something you want today. the rate of pay, everyone knows what they are signing _ of pay, everyone knows what they are signing up— of pay, everyone knows what they are signing up for here, people leaving to go— signing up for here, people leaving to go to _ signing up for here, people leaving to go to australia for all kinds of reasons, — to go to australia for all kinds of reasons, i— to go to australia for all kinds of reasons, i don't think there's any evidence — reasons, i don't think there's any evidence paying people more in the uk stops _ evidence paying people more in the uk stops them from going and doing other things. uk stops them from going and doing other things-— other things. final from you, abhay. eve one other things. final from you, abhay. everyone is — other things. final from you, abhay. everyone is entitled _ other things. final from you, abhay. everyone is entitled to _ other things. final from you, abhay. everyone is entitled to their - other things. final from you, abhay. everyone is entitled to their own - everyone is entitled to their own opinion, i am going to australia next year and it is just looking for a better life, and being respected for what we do. is a better life, and being respected for what we do.— for what we do. is that 'ust about -a or for what we do. is that 'ust about pay or other... h for what we do. is that 'ust about pay or other... the _ for what we do. is thatjust about pay or other... the training, - for what we do. is that just aboutl pay or other... the training, being a doctor, pay or other... the training, being a doctor. as _ pay or other... the training, being a doctor, as james _ pay or other... the training, being a doctor, as james said _ pay or other... the training, being a doctor, as james said as - pay or other... the training, being | a doctor, as james said as vocation unlearning constantly and when that then turns into working yourself hard core to the tooth and nail every day for not a lot of pace and there are better conditions out there, why wouldn't you? i am going by this time next year just to kind of figure out if that is what i want to do and i think that is what a lot of doctors are now debating and making that choice. if i can do the same thing somewhere else, still impact patient lives, why couldn't i do it in better conditions?- do it in better conditions? there's been huge — do it in better conditions? there's been huge investment _ do it in better conditions? there's been huge investment in - do it in better conditions? there's been huge investment in you - been huge investment in you personally and individual doctor so you can go on and do thejob personally and individual doctor so you can go on and do the job you personally and individual doctor so you can go on and do thejob you are taking to australia today. you you can go on and do the 'ob you are taking to australia today.- taking to australia today. you have sort of sense _ taking to australia today. you have sort of sense of— taking to australia today. you have sort of sense of commitment - taking to australia today. you have sort of sense of commitment to i taking to australia today. you have i sort of sense of commitment to that investment? i want to stay here, i did. i do not necessarily plan on going to australia full—time but i want to stay in england, my loved ones are here and my family are here and the ones i want to look after, my neighbours and the people in hospitals and the people i want to take care of. but we need to take care of us first to take care of you, help us first. it’s care of us first to take care of you, help us first.— you, help us first. it's a fascinating _ you, help us first. it's a fascinating discussion l you, help us first. it's a - fascinating discussion between you, help us first. it's a _ fascinating discussion between the two of you, clearly not all the doctors or on the same page with this but thank you so much to both of you for your time. abhay and james, the latter he says doctors should not go on strike at the moment, saying doctors know what they sign up for, but the pace and they sign up for, but the pace and they should negotiate in different ways which do not impact on patients. fundamentally what we want to know this morning is how the strikes impact you, yourfriends, your loved ones and family members. are they impacting your health, treatment options? let's hear your stories. bowl—macro. now it's time for the news with lisa mccormick. thank you. nhs england says a joint walkout byjunior doctors and consultants will bring all non—emergency healthcare to a "near standstill". both groups want above inflation pay rises but the government insists this years offer is "fair and final". water companies want to raise bills by £156 a year by 2030 to pay for upgrades and reduce sewage discharges. the plans need approval by the regulator ofwat. the national living wage is to rise from april next year. the chancellor, jeremy hunt, will tell the conservative party conference in manchester that it will go up from £10.42 to £11. the boss ofjohn lewis, dame sharon white, is to stand down. her current term as chair is due to come to an end next year but she's said she won't be staying on. those are your news headlines this morning. now it is time for the sport. rory mcilroy is one of several high—profile ryder cup players to call for luke donald to stay on as the europe captain when they try to win away in the united states in two years' time. donald led europe to victory in rome over the weekend. mcilroy says everyone in the team "would be very happy to have him again." "would be very happy to have him rangers are expected to take their time appointing a successor to michale beale, who was sacked after the team lost 3—1 at home to aberdeen at the weekend. former midfielder steven davis has taken interim charge at ibrox. rangers are seven points behind scottish premiership leaders, celtic. liverpool say that the var mistake that cost them a goal in their 2—1 defeat at tottenham resulted in "sporting integrity being undermined." the referees' body — the pgmol — admitted a "significant human error," and is conducting a review. and the san francisco 49ers and philadelphia eagles remain the only two unbeaten teams left in the nfl. they both won their matches on the fourth sunday of the season. masses of texts and calls coming in this morning on our subject today forjust about nhs strikes. have the doctor strikes impact did you but from 10am this morning we will discuss vor and when var gets it wrong. it happened in a big way this weekend, spurs versus liverpool, on saturday, the video assistant referee failed to correct the rolling out of a goal by a player from the game was goalless. it can change the whole game in many way. the referee body has admitted the decision was a significant human error which is what i thought the was supposed to get rid of? they are conducting a review. in a statement liverpool fc says sporting integrity has been undermined and they are exploring a range of options available, what my perceptions be? gary neville former manchester united defender says the statement is a mistake saying it is big and aggressive, it is unclear what they mean by what you think should happen? can or should anything be done to compensate liverpool, if you feel your club has been on the wrong end of a var decision, you will have sympathy for them or maybe you feel they are asking for special treatment? is it about learning lessons to stop it happening again or do we need something more drastic? some fans have called for a replay, apparently spurs fans are happy to say they would replay it, so... when var gets it wrong, your conversation at 10am. we are on bbc five live, bbc two, bbc news and bbc sounds and it's lovely to have your company this morning. we are talking about the massive strikes happening today involving junior doctors and consultants in england. how are these impacting you? that is what we would like to know and we have had some amazing calls. deborah is in worcester. michelle. laura. they've all had disruptions to treatment as all had disruptions to treatment as a result of strike action, deborah, what is going on with you? good morninu. what is going on with you? good morning- i _ what is going on with you? good morning- i am — what is going on with you? good morning. i am ringing _ what is going on with you? good morning. i am ringing on - what is going on with you? (13mm morning. i am ringing on behalf of a good friend of mine, he lives in stratford—upon—avon and his health is not good, he is in heart failure, he has had bypass and he is in af and he has a pacemaker and defibrillator transplanted into him for over five years. defibrillator transplanted into him for overfive years. he defibrillator transplanted into him for over five years. he was told in january the battery would run out within about nine months. if the battery runs out and he goes into atrial fibrillation, battery runs out and he goes into atrialfibrillation, he is dead. because you have not got the defibrillator is working to stop the problem. here we are, ten months on, he was told there was nine months left in the battery. stress on the heart do not go together. he regularly rings the consultant secretary, not a lot she can do, we have been to the doctor, the doctor has sent a letter to the hospital and we still have not heard anything back. they cannot tell me, they keep saying it's not going to affect emergency problems. but i had to take a friend to worcester royal some months back and ijust put the question to the doctor and she said of course it is going to affect it! cannot not affect it! so quiet do we go from here? every time they go on strike the sort of things are put back on basically, who is going to say, he could go into af, the battery could fail in a week and he will be dead, simple as that? iloathed will be dead, simple as that? what do we no will be dead, simple as that? what do we go from _ will be dead, simple as that? what do we go from here, _ will be dead, simple as that? what do we go from here, that - will be dead, simple as that? what do we go from here, that is the question. sabrina in dartmoor, you had a bad experience during the last strikes? i had a bad experience during the last strikes? ., had a bad experience during the last strikes? . ., , , ., , ., strikes? i have many serious health roblems. strikes? i have many serious health problems- i— strikes? i have many serious health problems- i am _ strikes? i have many serious health problems. i am frequently - strikes? i have many serious health problems. i am frequently taken i strikes? i have many serious health problems. i am frequently taken in | problems. i am frequently taken in and admitted. during the last strike i and admitted. during the last strike i was _ and admitted. during the last strike i was rushed in on blues and taken to emergency resuscitation which is one of— to emergency resuscitation which is one of the — to emergency resuscitation which is one of the most serious parts of accident — one of the most serious parts of accident and emergency. due to staffing — accident and emergency. due to staffing levels and it was then suddenly put out into the a&e waiting — suddenly put out into the a&e waiting room. i had to wait six hours — waiting room. i had to wait six hours to— waiting room. i had to wait six hours to see a doctor, i had an extremely— hours to see a doctor, i had an extremely painful, severely swollen hand and _ extremely painful, severely swollen hand and arm. i have a history of sepsis _ hand and arm. i have a history of sepsis and — hand and arm. i have a history of sepsis. and when i eventually saw a doctor. _ sepsis. and when i eventually saw a doctor. who — sepsis. and when i eventually saw a doctor, who i had actually seen before, — doctor, who i had actually seen before, i— doctor, who i had actually seen before, i was rushed in and then next _ before, i was rushed in and then next thing. _ before, i was rushed in and then next thing, i am up in intensive care— next thing, i am up in intensive care unit— next thing, i am up in intensive care unit for— next thing, i am up in intensive care unit fora next thing, i am up in intensive care unit for a number of days and i was in— care unit for a number of days and i was infor— care unit for a number of days and i was infora— care unit for a number of days and i was in for a total of over two weeks — was in for a total of over two weeks. ,.,, ., , n weeks. gosh, that is frightening. i am not exaggerating, _ weeks. gosh, that is frightening. i am not exaggerating, if— weeks. gosh, that is frightening. i am not exaggerating, if i - weeks. gosh, that is frightening. i am not exaggerating, if i had - weeks. gosh, that is frightening. i am not exaggerating, ifi had not. am not exaggerating, if i had not been _ am not exaggerating, if i had not been seen — am not exaggerating, if i had not been seen sooner, i could have died, i been seen sooner, i could have died, i was _ been seen sooner, i could have died, i was told _ been seen sooner, i could have died, i was told that. that been seen sooner, i could have died, i was told that.— i was told that. that sounds terrifying. _ i was told that. that sounds terrifying, what _ i was told that. that sounds terrifying, what i _ i was told that. that sounds terrifying, what i would - i was told that. that sounds terrifying, what i would say| i was told that. that sounds i terrifying, what i would say in i was told that. that sounds - terrifying, what i would say in all these cases, we're not entirely sure how much problems on the wards, delays in care, pressure is on the hospitals because of strike action alone or further it's a bigger problem of funding and organisation within the health service and i suppose that is what the doctors would say. they would say the disruption you are seeing is not just down to doctors on strike, it's down to years of being run down by the current government. that is the case. do you see that? ida. the current government. that is the case. do you see that?— case. do you see that? no. i have been in hospital— case. do you see that? no. i have been in hospital as _ case. do you see that? no. i have been in hospital as i _ case. do you see that? no. i have been in hospital as i said - case. do you see that? no. i have been in hospital as i said many. been in hospital as i said many times— been in hospital as i said many times with _ been in hospital as i said many times with various problems. i am relatively— times with various problems. i am relatively young, 51. on all previous— relatively young, 51. on all previous admissions, being taken in by ambulance, i have been admitted. 0r kept— by ambulance, i have been admitted. 0r kept in— by ambulance, i have been admitted. 0r kept in accident and emergency and seen — 0r kept in accident and emergency and seen. but this is the first time that i_ and seen. but this is the first time that i have — and seen. but this is the first time that i have been taken into the most serious _ that i have been taken into the most serious part— that i have been taken into the most serious part of the accident and emergency department and kicked out into the _ emergency department and kicked out into the waiting room. and that was a strike _ into the waiting room. and that was a strike day? yes. let's hear from michelle _ a strike day? yes. let's hear from michelle in— a strike day? yes. let's hear from michelle in york and please feel free to — michelle in york and please feel free to stay with us and chipped in to this _ free to stay with us and chipped in to this conversation.— free to stay with us and chipped in to this conversation. michelle, you su ort to this conversation. michelle, you support the _ to this conversation. michelle, you support the strikers, _ to this conversation. michelle, you support the strikers, don't - to this conversation. michelle, you support the strikers, don't you? i i support the strikers, don't you? i do. it's sad to hear that experience and i_ do. it's sad to hear that experience and i totally — do. it's sad to hear that experience and i totally understand _ do. it's sad to hear that experience and i totally understand all- do. it's sad to hear that experience and i totally understand all of- do. it's sad to hear that experience and i totally understand all of yourl and i totally understand all of your view is _ and i totally understand all of your view is that— and i totally understand all of your view is that you _ and i totally understand all of your view is that you have _ and i totally understand all of your view is that you have been - view is that you have been speaking to. view is that you have been speaking to you _ view is that you have been speaking to you had — view is that you have been speaking to you had not _ view is that you have been speaking to. you had not good _ view is that you have been speaking to. you had not good experiences. i mean, _ to. you had not good experiences. i mean. the — to. you had not good experiences. i mean. the nhs— to. you had not good experiences. i mean, the nhs saved _ to. you had not good experiences. i mean, the nhs saved my— to. you had not good experiences. i mean, the nhs saved my life, - to. you had not good experiences. i mean, the nhs saved my life, i- to. you had not good experiences. i mean, the nhs saved my life, i had cancer— mean, the nhs saved my life, i had cancer in _ mean, the nhs saved my life, i had cancer in 2016 _ mean, the nhs saved my life, i had cancer in 2016. the _ mean, the nhs saved my life, i had cancer in 2016. the compassion, . mean, the nhs saved my life, i had| cancer in 2016. the compassion, the support, _ cancer in 2016. the compassion, the support, the — cancer in 2016. the compassion, the support, the care _ cancer in 2016. the compassion, the support, the care that— cancer in 2016. the compassion, the support, the care that i— cancer in 2016. the compassion, the support, the care that i got- cancer in 2016. the compassion, the support, the care that i got from - support, the care that i got from everyone — support, the care that i got from everyone at— support, the care that i got from everyone at the _ support, the care that i got from everyone at the hospital, - support, the care that i got from everyone at the hospital, the - everyone at the hospital, the doctors — everyone at the hospital, the doctors and _ everyone at the hospital, the doctors and nurses _ everyone at the hospital, the doctors and nurses and - everyone at the hospital, the - doctors and nurses and everyone, i cannot— doctors and nurses and everyone, i cannot thank— doctors and nurses and everyone, i cannot thank york _ doctors and nurses and everyone, i cannot thank york hospital - doctors and nurses and everyone, i cannot thank york hospital enough | cannot thank york hospital enough for that _ cannot thank york hospital enough for that i— cannot thank york hospital enough for that. i then— cannot thank york hospital enough for that. i then had _ cannot thank york hospital enough for that. i then had further- for that. i then had further complications— for that. i then had further complications and - for that. i then had further complications and had - for that. i then had further complications and had to i for that. i then had further- complications and had to have a further— complications and had to have a further operation, _ complications and had to have a further operation, i— complications and had to have a further operation, ithink- complications and had to have a further operation, i think that'sl further operation, i think that's about— further operation, i think that's about 18 — further operation, i think that's about 18 months _ further operation, i think that's about 18 months or— further operation, i think that's about 18 months or two - further operation, i think that's about 18 months or two years l further operation, i think that's i about 18 months or two years ago further operation, i think that's - about 18 months or two years ago but none of— about 18 months or two years ago but none of thesem _ about 18 months or two years ago but none of these... the _ about 18 months or two years ago but none of these... the doctors- about 18 months or two years ago but none of these... the doctors are - about 18 months or two years ago but none of these... the doctors are on l none of these... the doctors are on strike _ none of these... the doctors are on strike and _ none of these... the doctors are on strike and what _ none of these... the doctors are on strike and what i— none of these... the doctors are on strike and what i am _ none of these... the doctors are on strike and what i am hearing - none of these... the doctors are on strike and what i am hearing is - none of these... the doctors are on strike and what i am hearing is a i strike and what i am hearing is a lot of— strike and what i am hearing is a lot of people _ strike and what i am hearing is a lot of people saying _ strike and what i am hearing is a lot of people saying what - strike and what i am hearing is a lot of people saying what the - strike and what i am hearing is a i lot of people saying what the issues are and _ lot of people saying what the issues are and rachel, _ lot of people saying what the issues are and rachel, it— lot of people saying what the issues are and rachel, it is— lot of people saying what the issues are and rachel, it is not— lot of people saying what the issues are and rachel, it is not the - are and rachel, it is not the doctors _ are and rachel, it is not the doctors on _ are and rachel, it is not the doctors on strike _ are and rachel, it is not the doctors on strike causing i are and rachel, it is not the doctors on strike causing it. are and rachel, it is not the - doctors on strike causing it. this is austerity— doctors on strike causing it. this is austerity over— doctors on strike causing it. this is austerity over ten _ doctors on strike causing it. this is austerity over ten years. - doctors on strike causing it. this is austerity over ten years. a - doctors on strike causing it. this is austerity over ten years. a lotj is austerity over ten years. a lot of the _ is austerity over ten years. a lot of the issues _ is austerity over ten years. a lot of the issues in _ is austerity over ten years. a lot of the issues in the _ is austerity over ten years. a lot of the issues in the nhs - is austerity over ten years. a lot of the issues in the nhs could i is austerity over ten years. a loti of the issues in the nhs could be solved _ of the issues in the nhs could be solved by— of the issues in the nhs could be solved by the _ of the issues in the nhs could be solved by the government - of the issues in the nhs could be solved by the government and ii of the issues in the nhs could be - solved by the government and i don't want to— solved by the government and i don't want to make — solved by the government and i don't want to make a — solved by the government and i don't want to make a political— solved by the government and i don't want to make a political statement i want to make a political statement but at _ want to make a political statement but at some — want to make a political statement but at some point, _ want to make a political statement but at some point, we _ want to make a political statement but at some point, we have - want to make a political statement but at some point, we have to - want to make a political statement but at some point, we have to payl but at some point, we have to pay for our— but at some point, we have to pay for our health _ but at some point, we have to pay for our health care, _ but at some point, we have to pay for our health care, whether- but at some point, we have to pay for our health care, whether that. but at some point, we have to payl for our health care, whether that is through— for our health care, whether that is through taxes — for our health care, whether that is through taxes to _ for our health care, whether that is through taxes to have _ for our health care, whether that is through taxes to have better - for our health care, whether that is through taxes to have better public services _ through taxes to have better public services or— through taxes to have better public services or in — through taxes to have better public services or in private _ through taxes to have better public services or in private health - through taxes to have better public services or in private health care. l services or in private health care. at the _ services or in private health care. at the nhs— services or in private health care. at the nhs is— services or in private health care. at the nhs is something - services or in private health care. at the nhs is something that- services or in private health care. i at the nhs is something that once lost, we _ at the nhs is something that once lost, we will — at the nhs is something that once lost, we will never _ at the nhs is something that once lost, we will never ever— at the nhs is something that once lost, we will never ever get - at the nhs is something that once lost, we will never ever get back l lost, we will never ever get back because — lost, we will never ever get back because the _ lost, we will never ever get back because the nhs— lost, we will never ever get back because the nhs came - lost, we will never ever get back because the nhs came after- lost, we will never ever get back because the nhs came after the | lost, we will never ever get back - because the nhs came after the war and it— because the nhs came after the war and it came — because the nhs came after the war and it came for— because the nhs came after the war and it came for all— because the nhs came after the war and it came for all the _ because the nhs came after the war and it came for all the right- and it came for all the right reasons, _ and it came for all the right reasons, i_ and it came for all the right reasons, i don't— and it came for all the right reasons, i don't know- and it came for all the right reasons, i don't know if- and it came for all the right| reasons, i don't know if any and it came for all the right. reasons, i don't know if any of and it came for all the right- reasons, i don't know if any of you have _ reasons, i don't know if any of you have ever — reasons, i don't know if any of you have ever read _ reasons, i don't know if any of you have ever read the _ reasons, i don't know if any of you have ever read the pillars - reasons, idon't know if any of you have ever read the pillars of- reasons, i don't know if any of you have ever read the pillars of the i have ever read the pillars of the welfare — have ever read the pillars of the welfare state? _ have ever read the pillars of the welfare state? and _ have ever read the pillars of the welfare state? and free - have ever read the pillars of the welfare state? and free at - have ever read the pillars of the welfare state? and free at the i have ever read the pillars of the - welfare state? and free at the point of access, _ welfare state? and free at the point of access, anybody _ welfare state? and free at the point of access, anybody can _ welfare state? and free at the point of access, anybody can go _ welfare state? and free at the point of access, anybody can go to - welfare state? and free at the point of access, anybody can go to the - of access, anybody can go to the doctor— of access, anybody can go to the doctor or— of access, anybody can go to the doctor or hospital— of access, anybody can go to the doctor or hospital and _ of access, anybody can go to the doctor or hospital and go - of access, anybody can go to the doctor or hospital and go for- of access, anybody can go to the i doctor or hospital and go for help and get _ doctor or hospital and go for help and get what _ doctor or hospital and go for help and get what they— doctor or hospital and go for help and get what they need _ doctor or hospital and go for help and get what they need and - doctor or hospital and go for help and get what they need and all. doctor or hospital and go for help. and get what they need and all the doctors _ and get what they need and all the doctors are — and get what they need and all the doctors are trying _ and get what they need and all the doctors are trying to _ and get what they need and all the doctors are trying to do _ and get what they need and all the doctors are trying to do is - and get what they need and all the doctors are trying to do is let - doctors are trying to do is let people — doctors are trying to do is let people know— doctors are trying to do is let people know that _ doctors are trying to do is let people know that in - doctors are trying to do is let people know that in order. doctors are trying to do is letj people know that in order for doctors are trying to do is let. people know that in order for us doctors are trying to do is let - people know that in order for us to continue _ people know that in order for us to continue to— people know that in order for us to continue to do _ people know that in order for us to continue to do that _ people know that in order for us to continue to do that and _ people know that in order for us to continue to do that and provide - people know that in order for us toi continue to do that and provide that service, _ continue to do that and provide that service, we — continue to do that and provide that service, we want _ continue to do that and provide that service, we want a _ continue to do that and provide that service, we want a decent— continue to do that and provide that service, we want a decent pay- continue to do that and provide that service, we want a decent pay for. service, we want a decent pay for it. ., ., ~ ., service, we want a decent pay for it. look at the increasing demands on the nhs, _ it. look at the increasing demands on the ms, the — it. look at the increasing demands on the nhs, the mushrooming - it. look at the increasing demands on the nhs, the mushrooming of| on the nhs, the mushrooming of lifestyle —related illnesses putting pressure on services. let me read a couple of text. emmett says the doctor is a big deal do not strike, times are tough for all. caring for a family, i cannot strike in the waiting list for a kidney operation. another viewer, doctors, waiting list for a kidney operation. anotherviewer, doctors, if you waiting list for a kidney operation. another viewer, doctors, if you do not like the conditions then leave, do not obtain patients to get a pay rise. another lesson it says these doctors are a disgrace leaving patients in pain and discomfort, shame on them. margaret in wigan, good morning, what is happening with your apartments? good morning, what is happening with yourapartments? mi; good morning, what is happening with your apartments?— your apartments? my surgery was cancelled last _ your apartments? my surgery was cancelled last week _ your apartments? my surgery was cancelled last week and _ your apartments? my surgery was cancelled last week and the - your apartments? my surgery was cancelled last week and the week| cancelled last week and the week before for a query malignant melanoma lesion but it is rescheduled for this thursday. apparently the strikes and at 7am so i hope it goes ahead and i cannot get a phone call the day before. i have an appointment today, it is not urgent so i am still expecting a phone call for a 3:30pm that it is cancelled because it was only booked last week. the strikes are on today so i have lost confidence really and trust, you cannot take what they say is true that things are going to happen and that's how long this will go on for now. you know? i happen and that's how long this will go on for now. you know?- go on for now. you know? i guess that a savoury _ go on for now. you know? i guess that a savoury for _ go on for now. you know? i guess that a savoury for many _ go on for now. you know? i guess that a savoury for many people i go on for now. you know? i guessl that a savoury for many people and let me bring in the lower end stop it. he faced a number of cancellations.— it. he faced a number of cancellations. �* . ., cancellations. but i have heard fewer cancellations _ cancellations. but i have heard fewer cancellations for - cancellations. but i have heard fewer cancellations for a - cancellations. but i have heard fewer cancellations for a totall cancellations. but i have heard i fewer cancellations for a total hip replacement and i've been on the waiting _ replacement and i've been on the waiting list now for 2.5 years. 2.5 years _ waiting list now for 2.5 years. 2.5 years. mainly because of the pandemic. i do not believe it is the fault _ pandemic. i do not believe it is the fault of— pandemic. i do not believe it is the fault of the — pandemic. i do not believe it is the fault of the doctors and i fully support— fault of the doctors and i fully support them. it is not their fault. they— support them. it is not their fault. they work— support them. it is not their fault. they work ever so hard in hospital to do— they work ever so hard in hospital to do their— they work ever so hard in hospital to do their best. a lot of them are working _ to do their best. a lot of them are working overtime, not getting paid for it _ working overtime, not getting paid for it a_ working overtime, not getting paid for it a lot — working overtime, not getting paid for it. a lot of the doctors have debt— for it. a lot of the doctors have debt from _ for it. a lot of the doctors have debt from training. we have got to support— debt from training. we have got to support our— debt from training. we have got to support our doctors because if we do not come _ support our doctors because if we do not come up — support our doctors because if we do not come up more will go abroad and -et not come up more will go abroad and get the _ not come up more will go abroad and get the payday to serve them so we've _ get the payday to serve them so we've got — get the payday to serve them so we've got to protect the nhs because if we do _ we've got to protect the nhs because if we do not, it will not be there for us _ if we do not, it will not be there for us so — if we do not, it will not be there for us so we _ if we do not, it will not be there for us so we have to do something. who wants — for us so we have to do something. who wants to play the part of health secretary? who wants to be health secretary? who wants to be health secretary and sort this out? margaret, michelle, laura? laughter. i am not saying it is an easyjob. but we need to protect the doctors and pay— but we need to protect the doctors and pay them what they deserve. margaret — and pay them what they deserve. margaret says there is a choice, don't you, whether you support the doctors are not? i do don't you, whether you support the doctors are not?— don't you, whether you support the doctors are not? i do support them, i have doctors are not? i do support them, i have been — doctors are not? i do support them, i have been a _ doctors are not? i do support them, i have been a nurse _ doctors are not? i do support them, i have been a nurse all— doctors are not? i do support them, i have been a nurse all my - doctors are not? i do support them, i have been a nurse all my life - doctors are not? i do support them, i have been a nurse all my life and i i have been a nurse all my life and i have been a nurse all my life and i do support them but when it is affecting you personally, with serious working conditions and progressive conditions, it starts to secure your somewhat. where is this going now, you know? i will secure your somewhat. where is this going now, you know?— going now, you know? i will be honest. because _ going now, you know? i will be honest. because i— going now, you know? i will be honest. because i like - going now, you know? i will be honest. because i like the - going now, you know? i will be| honest. because i like the bbc, going now, you know? i will be i honest. because i like the bbc, i going now, you know? i will be - honest. because i like the bbc, i am totally abortion on all of this but a very close friend of mine is due to have open heart surgery has had a consultant appointment cancelled, delayed as a result of the strikes and all i care about is that she gets in. i don't care how they sorted out but she has got to be seen soon, you know? the frustration is sometimes why cannot we get the sides together but the doctors would say we are trying to negotiate that the health secretary is refusing to negotiate so where do we go? i do not think it — negotiate so where do we go? i do not think it is _ negotiate so where do we go? i do not think it is a _ negotiate so where do we go? i gr not think it is a question of totally the doctors strike, i think the systems within the nhs hospitals, the appointment systems are broken. this has been going on long before the strikes. cancellations and waiting months and months for urgent appointments and scans and bangs. you cannot wholly blame the strikes of this. and it seems to be a postcode lottery. some hospitals are working superbly well with appointments, getting people seen early, for tests, getting the results straightaway, within a number of weeks but others, you can wait up to six months for an mri result in things. patients need treatment on. so you've got to go backin treatment on. so you've got to go back in the system for a further appointment and it can turn into years before you actually get seen and get sorted. the; years before you actually get seen and get sorted-— years before you actually get seen and get sorted. as laura knows, how is our hi and get sorted. as laura knows, how is your hip feeling? _ and get sorted. as laura knows, how is your hip feeling? i _ and get sorted. as laura knows, how is your hip feeling? i am _ and get sorted. as laura knows, how is your hip feeling? i am struggling i is your hip feeling? i am struggling to walk on it. _ is your hip feeling? i am struggling to walk on it, i _ is your hip feeling? i am struggling to walk on it, i am _ is your hip feeling? i am struggling to walk on it, i am not _ is your hip feeling? i am struggling to walk on it, i am not able - is your hip feeling? i am struggling to walk on it, i am not able to - is your hip feeling? i am struggling | to walk on it, i am not able to work at the _ to walk on it, i am not able to work at the moment and i am on crutches but it— at the moment and i am on crutches but it is— at the moment and i am on crutches but it is not— at the moment and i am on crutches but it is not the fault of the doctors _ but it is not the fault of the doctors that it is this way but i don't — doctors that it is this way but i don't understand what your last caller— don't understand what your last caller was— don't understand what your last caller was saying. when it affects you personally are changes things, of course _ you personally are changes things, of course it— you personally are changes things, of course it does and that scares you~ _ of course it does and that scares you~ if— of course it does and that scares you. if you've been waiting potentially not very good results. so yes, _ potentially not very good results. so yes, it — potentially not very good results. so yes, it scares you but if we do not support— so yes, it scares you but if we do not support the doctors, more of them _ not support the doctors, more of them will— not support the doctors, more of them will go abroad and we will have more _ them will go abroad and we will have more of— them will go abroad and we will have more of these problems. let�*s them will go abroad and we will have more of these problems.— more of these problems. let's see what nigel — more of these problems. let's see what nigel thinks, _ more of these problems. let's see what nigel thinks, you _ more of these problems. let's see what nigel thinks, you are - more of these problems. let's see what nigel thinks, you are and - more of these problems. let's see. what nigel thinks, you are and wear them, you are worried about your mother, please tell us about her? good morning, rachel. sadly, my mum is 87. she has cancer. she had a malignant tumour in her neck and i think the real problem that we had was actually getting seen. i a consultant. and it was exacerbated over the strike during it because getting the scans and getting all the different tests etc it was super the different tests etc it was super theissue the different tests etc it was super the issue became she had an appointment on the first day of the strikes, that was cancelled so we couldn't see someone and it was repeated again so we had it on separate occasions, we were not able to be seen and all that debt was increase the stress and worry for her. as to exactly what was going on. ., , , ., ., ., on. how is she doing at the moment, how is she managing? _ on. how is she doing at the moment, j how is she managing? unfortunately, not tood. how is she managing? unfortunately, not good- the — how is she managing? unfortunately, not good. the irony _ how is she managing? unfortunately, not good. the irony is _ how is she managing? unfortunately, not good. the irony is that _ how is she managing? unfortunately, not good. the irony is that a - how is she managing? unfortunately, not good. the irony is that a lot - how is she managing? unfortunately, not good. the irony is that a lot of. not good. the irony is that a lot of pushing and that is the thing, at 87 she cannot really do it and speak very well so i have had to do that pushing and making numerous phone calls and being quite belligerent to try and get someone to see her. we have seen someone and discovered it is inoperable, there is no treatment available... i is inoperable, there is no treatment available---— available... i am so sorry to hear that. so sorry. _ available... i am so sorry to hear that. so sorry. how— available... i am so sorry to hear that. so sorry. how do _ available... i am so sorry to hear that. so sorry. how do you - available... i am so sorry to hear that. so sorry. how do you feel i that. so sorry. how do you feel about the strike? the; that. so sorry. how do you feel about the strike?— about the strike? as you can imagine. _ about the strike? as you can imagine. i— about the strike? as you can imagine. i am _ about the strike? as you can imagine, i am not— about the strike? as you can imagine, i am not overly - about the strike? as you can i imagine, i am not overly happy about the strike? as you can - imagine, i am not overly happy about it. for me, i look at it and even if i take it out from my personal experience with my mum, i grew up as a child understanding about the hippocratic oath, all doctors use to take and i know they did not do that any more and part of that was always that you know about the first, do no harm, they swore they would abstain from doing intentional wrongdoing or harm to your patient. to me, i do not understand how any doctor, let alone a consultant, any doctor could decide to withdraw their labour and refuse to see a patient. and members of what they say, when they say we do not do that, they are. when we got in to go to the clinic, at the hospital where the consultant was, the entire clinic was closed. not a single patient was being seen apart from my mother on that day. and that is because i kicked up enough of a stink, wrote to mps and contacted everyone and try to make a public and they went to see her. that everyone and try to make a public and they went to see her.- and they went to see her. that is because you _ and they went to see her. that is because you were _ and they went to see her. that is because you were able _ and they went to see her. that is because you were able to - and they went to see her. that is i because you were able to advocate for her. let's ask sean, a junior doctor in derby, how does this fit with your moral and ethical obligation to look after patients, going on strike?— obligation to look after patients, going on strike? obligation to look after patients, atoin on strike? ., . ., ,, going on strike? hello and thank you for havin: going on strike? hello and thank you for having me _ going on strike? hello and thank you for having me on. _ going on strike? hello and thank you for having me on. the _ going on strike? hello and thank you for having me on. the story - going on strike? hello and thank you for having me on. the story i - going on strike? hello and thank you for having me on. the story i have i for having me on. the story i have heard _ for having me on. the story i have heard is— for having me on. the story i have heard is heartbreaking in my heart goes _ heard is heartbreaking in my heart goes out _ heard is heartbreaking in my heart goes out to— heard is heartbreaking in my heart goes out to you. i think i come at this from — goes out to you. i think i come at this from a — goes out to you. i think i come at this from a slightly different perspective which is, why i texted in to— perspective which is, why i texted in to say— perspective which is, why i texted in to say i— perspective which is, why i texted in to say i have ended up being a victim— in to say i have ended up being a victim of— in to say i have ended up being a victim of the long waiting lists before — victim of the long waiting lists before any of the strikes happened. briefly, _ before any of the strikes happened. briefly, my— before any of the strikes happened. briefly, my story, i was referred into the — briefly, my story, i was referred into the hospital that i work and funnily— into the hospital that i work and funnily enough because they noticed irregularities in my eye test, this was some — irregularities in my eye test, this was some years ago and i waited two years— was some years ago and i waited two years and _ was some years ago and i waited two years and still have not been seen so i years and still have not been seen so i went— years and still have not been seen so i went back for my annual checkup and my— so i went back for my annual checkup and my eyesight was getting worse and my eyesight was getting worse and worse — and my eyesight was getting worse and worse so the guy saw me and advised _ and worse so the guy saw me and advised me — and worse so the guy saw me and advised me to go privately which i did and _ advised me to go privately which i did and the consultant i saw, who i work— did and the consultant i saw, who i work with— did and the consultant i saw, who i work with told me i had irreversible vision _ work with told me i had irreversible vision loss— work with told me i had irreversible vision loss in my right eye and there — vision loss in my right eye and there is— vision loss in my right eye and there is nothing that can be done, all i there is nothing that can be done, all i can— there is nothing that can be done, all i can do— there is nothing that can be done, all i can do is try and prevent it happening _ all i can do is try and prevent it happening in my left eye so it is nowhere — happening in my left eye so it is nowhere near as severe as what others _ nowhere near as severe as what others have gone through but this happened well before any strikes happened. the other story, briefly, isaw— happened. the other story, briefly, i saw a _ happened. the other story, briefly, i saw a patientjust before the first— i saw a patientjust before the first nursing strike and i was working _ first nursing strike and i was working a _ first nursing strike and i was working a night shift and this chap was really— working a night shift and this chap was really unwell, seriously unwell, had spent _ was really unwell, seriously unwell, had spent the whole night trying to stabilise _ had spent the whole night trying to stabilise him and we did and when i -ot stabilise him and we did and when i got the _ stabilise him and we did and when i got the chance to ask him why didn't you tell— got the chance to ask him why didn't you tell us, — got the chance to ask him why didn't you tell us, why didn't you get medical— you tell us, why didn't you get medical help earlier, he said he didn't— medical help earlier, he said he didn't want to bother us because we too busy— didn't want to bother us because we too busy and so he sat in his house for two _ too busy and so he sat in his house for two days— too busy and so he sat in his house for two days and eventually almost dying _ for two days and eventually almost dying and — for two days and eventually almost dying. and it's stories like that as well as— dying. and it's stories like that as well as my— dying. and it's stories like that as well as my own that gives me and makes _ well as my own that gives me and makes me — well as my own that gives me and makes me feel, this is not something we take _ makes me feel, this is not something we take lightly, you know? we are striking _ we take lightly, you know? we are striking to — we take lightly, you know? we are striking to prevent heart not because _ striking to prevent heart not because it, if that makes sense? not eve one because it, if that makes sense? iirrt everyone accepts that but i understand what you are saying and interesting you talk of your experience of going private but there are strong beliefs that funding for underfunding by the government in recent years is an agenda to drive people towards private health care. whether you agree with that or not, certainly thatis agree with that or not, certainly that is represented on a number of architects this morning. the that is represented on a number of architects this morning.- that is represented on a number of architects this morning. the thing i want to say. _ architects this morning. the thing i want to say. the — architects this morning. the thing i want to say, the one _ architects this morning. the thing i want to say, the one thing, - architects this morning. the thing i | want to say, the one thing, doctors and nurses— want to say, the one thing, doctors and nurses or patients are cells in the nhs, — and nurses or patients are cells in the nhs, we all have a vested interest— the nhs, we all have a vested interest in maintaining the system to make _ interest in maintaining the system to make sure it works. for me, personally _ to make sure it works. for me, personally, it is important, this strike _ personally, it is important, this strike action is important to prevent— strike action is important to prevent the nhs becoming a complete calamity _ prevent the nhs becoming a complete calami . , ., ., ., calamity. listen, i want to get to one more — calamity. listen, i want to get to one more corporate _ calamity. listen, i want to get to one more corporate thank- calamity. listen, i want to get to one more corporate thank you i calamity. listen, i want to get to j one more corporate thank you so calamity. listen, i want to get to - one more corporate thank you so much and thank you to everyone who has called on this morning and sharing your personal stories. we really appreciate it. death is with us in manchester. you had a major stroke injanuary, but how are you feeling now? in january, but how are you feeling now? �* ., ., , ,':f~ now? -- beth. i am only 38 so it was a shock for— now? -- beth. i am only 38 so it was a shock for me _ now? -- beth. i am only 38 so it was a shock for me and _ now? -- beth. i am only 38 so it was a shock for me and the _ now? -- beth. i am only 38 so it was a shock for me and the family, - now? -- beth. i am only 38 so it was a shock for me and the family, it - a shock for me and the family, it was because of an undiagnosed heart condition _ was because of an undiagnosed heart condition. ten months on, the kind of strategy— condition. ten months on, the kind of strategy meeting, where they decide _ of strategy meeting, where they decide whether to do open heart surgery— decide whether to do open heart surgery or— decide whether to do open heart surgery or delay for 12 months to make _ surgery or delay for 12 months to make sure — surgery or delay for 12 months to make sure i am stable, it's been cancelled — make sure i am stable, it's been cancelled again for the third time tomorrow— cancelled again for the third time tomorrow so it's hanging over me and the family _ tomorrow so it's hanging over me and the family. and i am having to take a lot of— the family. and i am having to take a lot of really strong medication to maintain _ a lot of really strong medication to maintain my heart at the moment. while _ maintain my heart at the moment. while this— maintain my heart at the moment. while this decision is made. and it hasjust_ while this decision is made. and it hasjust been going on for such a long _ hasjust been going on for such a long time, — hasjust been going on for such a long time, is worrying. i have had quite _ long time, is worrying. i have had quite invasive tests in preparation for surgery, internal scans and monitors, _ for surgery, internal scans and monitors, implanted and so what which _ monitors, implanted and so what which will— monitors, implanted and so what which will now need to be redone because — which will now need to be redone because they are out of date so it will all _ because they are out of date so it will all need to be redone. it is not very— will all need to be redone. it is not very nice for me but also the cost _ not very nice for me but also the cost of— not very nice for me but also the cost of that— not very nice for me but also the cost of that is going to be born twice — cost of that is going to be born twice. ,., . ~ ., cost of that is going to be born twice. ., , ,, , ., twice. the background stresses that, that unresolved _ twice. the background stresses that, that unresolved in _ twice. the background stresses that, that unresolved in your _ twice. the background stresses that, that unresolved in your life _ twice. the background stresses that, that unresolved in your life which - that unresolved in your life which is presumably always there is really challenging! bind is presumably always there is really challenatin! �* is presumably always there is really challenttin! . ., is presumably always there is really challentitn! . . ., ., , challenging! and i am having to be really careful, _ challenging! and i am having to be really careful, i _ challenging! and i am having to be really careful, i have _ challenging! and i am having to be really careful, i have had - challenging! and i am having to be really careful, i have had to - challenging! and i am having to bej really careful, i have had to reduce my exercise, be careful with my diet and so _ my exercise, be careful with my diet and so up _ my exercise, be careful with my diet and so up and my children are only three _ and so up and my children are only three and five and so they are really— three and five and so they are really aware that money is not very well and _ really aware that money is not very well and i_ really aware that money is not very well and i am really aware that money is not very welland i am in really aware that money is not very well and i am in hospital, really aware that money is not very welland i am in hospital, in really aware that money is not very well and i am in hospital, in and out for— well and i am in hospital, in and out for different tests and so on and on — out for different tests and so on and on a — out for different tests and so on and on a lot of medication and for them _ and on a lot of medication and for them it— and on a lot of medication and for them it is— and on a lot of medication and for them it is something they are worried — them it is something they are worried and scared about. yeah, yeah it is, when you _ worried and scared about. yeah, yeah it is, when you see _ worried and scared about. yeah, yeah it is, when you see your _ worried and scared about. yeah, yeah it is, when you see your mum - worried and scared about. yeah, yeah it is, when you see your mum looking j it is, when you see your mum looking vulnerable like that, it is not something you want to experience as a child. are you directly impacted by this strike?— a child. are you directly impacted b thisstrike? , ., ., ., by this strike? yes, tomorrow it was meant to be — by this strike? yes, tomorrow it was meant to be the _ by this strike? yes, tomorrow it was meant to be the third _ by this strike? yes, tomorrow it was meant to be the third meeting - by this strike? yes, tomorrow it was meant to be the third meeting when j meant to be the third meeting when they would make a final decision on whether— they would make a final decision on whether surgery would be and how they were — whether surgery would be and how they were to try and tackle it but it has _ they were to try and tackle it but it has been— they were to try and tackle it but it has been cancelled again. we still do — it has been cancelled again. we still do not have a decision or a plan _ still do not have a decision or a plan and — still do not have a decision or a plan and i_ still do not have a decision or a plan and i will have to stay on the medication — plan and i will have to stay on the medication indefinitely now until they managed to reschedule. take care, beth they managed to reschedule. take care. iteth and _ they managed to reschedule. take care, beth and thank _ they managed to reschedule. tag age: care, beth and thank you so much for sharing your story with us and thank you to all of our collars this morning, it has been an eye—opener as it over sin, to realise how this industrial action is affecting patients but many of you still supporting the doctors. we continue the conversation on bbc radio 5 live and we will talk about the future of the aorta. live from london, this is bbc news. emergency services in northern mexico work through the night to rescue survivors from the debris of a collapsed church. at least ten people are dead. all 27 european union foreign ministers are in kyiv for a historic meeting to discuss continued aid for ukraine. investigators in spain try to find out what caused a nightclub fire in the southeastern city of murcia, which killed at least 13 people. the longestjoint strike action in nhs history — junior doctors and consultants walk off the job for three days, in a ongoing dispute over pay. hello, thank you forjoining us. we begin in mexico, where the emergency services in the north of the country are working through the night to rescue survivors from the rubble of a church in ciudad madero that has collapsed, killing at least ten people. another 60, including children, have been injured after the roof caved in while people were attending a baptism in the santa cruz church

Related Keywords

Doctors , Consultants , Junior Doctors , Hospitals , Tens Of Thousands , Biggestjoint Industrial Action , England , Nhs History , 72 , Patients , Appointment , Action , Family , Friends , Loved Ones , Strike Fatigue , Bit , Nhs , Appointments , Health , Impact , Result , Treatment Options , Equipment , A Million , Pay , People , Government , Health Secretary , Treatment , Issue , Negotiations , Underfunding , Saying , Millions , Union , 6 , Strikes , Rise , Apartment , Patient , Leave , 8 , Strike Action , Part , Conversation , Radiographers , Numbers , Longestjoint Walk Out In Nhs History , Calls , Some , News , Bosses , Yourfriends , Extreme Disruption , Warning , Lisa , Three , Inflation Pay , Water Companies , Final , Bills , Infrastructure , 2030 , 150 , 50 , Amount , Chancellor , Increase , Plans , Regulator , Sewage , Living Wage , Rivers , Reservoirs , Pipes , Speech , Conservative Party Conference , 96 Billion , 6 Billion , Rate , Workers , Age , Stage Musical , Live Aid , 10 42 , 0 42 , 23 , 11 , One , 1 , Show , Many , Songs , In London , Wembley , Old Vic , 1985 , Wall , Value , More , Hand , 9 , Staff , Term , Nobody , Patient Care , Someone , Family Member , Wards , Yourfamily Member , Love , It , Cut , Hysterectomy , Example , Six , 33 , Reasons , Pressure , Waiting Lists , Operations , Thousands , Let S Go , Notjust , House Apps In General , Us , Abhay , Abhay Dhir , Corners , Let , Picket Line , Line , Where , Good Morninu , Queen S , Queen S Medical Centre , Nottingham , Ta Ellenberger , Virginia Dot , Thing , Australia , Terms , Door , Centre In Nottingham , 2008 , 26 , Expertise , Movement , Parts , Career , Canada , Industries , Uk , World , New Zealand , Conditions , Salary , Wave , Trickling , Doctor , Fashion , Ability , Opportunity , Waiting List , Service , Doesn T , Rest , 10000 , 7 Million , Woman , Heir , Extra , Course , Fault , Frustrations , Iii , Mismanagement , Underpaying , 36 , 2 Million , 7 2 Million , 2009 , Workforce , Plan , Suffering , 20 , 0 , Way , Michelle S , Health Care , Michelle , Lookin , Car Beeping , Tv , Situation , Achilles , Achilles , Consultant , Painkillers , Ultrasound Scan , Ultrasound , Secretary , August To March , Mri Scan , Mri , Ten , Lot , The Romulus Point For 4th Of August , 4th Of August , The Romulus , 4 , Effecting , August , October , Working , F Working , 11th Of August , If 11th Of August , 11th Of October , Credit , Can T Work , Universal Credit , Sick Pay , Walk , Can T , It Sjust , Walk , Spain , Problem , Sleeping Tablets , Tramadol Painkillers , Sleep , Nevertaken In My Life , In My Life , Ican T Sleep , Sleen , Sleen I , Picket Line Toda , Shell , Direction , Picket , Foot , Iwas , 27 , Nurses , Duty Of Care , Jobs , Of Everyjob , We Couldn T Do Everyjob , Minimum Wage , Nhs Duty Of Care , Disgrace , Picket Line Disgrace , Andj , Towel , Anguish , Enough , Place , Youranguish , Health Service , Stories , Orthopaedic Surgeon , Similarfield , Care Service , Health Care Service , 2010 , 4th Of October , Fraction , Filth , Wouldn T Be Out On Strike , Genuinely , Money , Strike , Job , Weight , Something , Shop , I , , 7 , Training , Danger , Wage , 2014 , 30 , Number , Kind , Gaps , Times , Lots , Article , Graphs , Worker , Nurse , 2 5 , 24 , 1396 , 2496 , 13 , Best , Affordability , Nightmare , Texture , Iwish , Taxes , Nhs Cannot , Fact , Background , Discussions , Form , Reason , Morning , Mike Louisa , Order , Choices , University College Hospital , Come Together For The First Time , Central London , I Louisa , Idon T Support The Strike Action , Words , Hospital , Nonemergency Level , Staffing Levels , Staffing , Meansjoint , Levels , Hearing , Safety , 35 , Table , Consultant Anaesthetist , Hospital Toda , Must , Com , Doctor Tom Dolhin , Struggle , Decision , Moral , Care , People Waiting For Care , A Recruit , Balance , Minds , The Nhs , Anaesthetist , I Operating Theatre , Personally , Operating Anaesthetist , I Anaesthetist , Operating Theatre , Things , Position , Breast Surgery , Cases , Back , Because , Negotiation , Kent , Country , Inflation , Options , Another , Say Ii Don T , Recruit , Recruit , Go To Australia , Io , Ireland , Top , Work , Stop , Back Up , Strength , Dispute , Desire , Dust , Patients , Doctor Tom Dolphin , Anaesthetistl Dolphin , Son , Yes , Couple , Surgery , Ben , Firstly , Firstl , Nicola , Simon , Phone Call , The , Gearing , Ou Exlain He , Hagar , Two , Indication , My Life , Hip Replacement , Life , Hip , Hipper , Stage , Aha , Dysplasia , 18 , Grandmother , Side , Seven , 17 , Surgeons , Lives , There Weren T , Superstars , Operation , Thinking , Knock On Effect , Carpe , Pip , Disability , Wife , Issues , Someone Else , On Morphine All The Time , Dealwith , Deal , Morphine , Essence , Oxford , I N , 39 , Iloafere The Essence , Bbc , We Can T Go Over , Saturday Night , Bbc , 40 , Call , Delivery Suite , Inductions , Suite , Eight , Waiting , Waiting To , In Limbo , Is , Induction List , List , Induced Operation , Itjust , Concern , Anxiety , Worry , Good , Fluids , Inducing , Diabetic , Precaution , Womb , Labour , We Labour , Guarantee , Io Labour , Observation , Heart , Stages , Pregnancy , My Heart Goes , No Doubt , Midwives , Consultant Led , Pay Rise , Work Level , Collateral Damage , Thinking Of You , Luck , It Doesn T , It Doesn T Need To , Need , Phenomenaljob , Far , Revious , Colours , Well , 0k , Nothing , Face , Mole , Macaws , Head , Gp , Dermatologist , Video , Photographs , Video Done , Skin Cancer , Ishould , Mess , Heroes , Everything Else , Haven T , Investigations , Deals , Didn T Work , Trace , Track , Pockets , Champions , Fraud , Loads , Ppe , Question , Demands , Swear Words , Budget , Count , Inheritance Tax , Services , 2 , Taxation , I Don T On , Single , Don T Make , Higher Taxation , Don T Make Me , Salmond , 296 , Make , Mole J , Disruption , Everything , Situations , Poses , Attention , Challenges , Bma , Unions , Graph , Pay Review Body , Drjames , Mother , Osition , David Reed , 100 , Statement , Colleagues , Team , Barclay , Painting , Averages , Note , Citizens , Wejust , Whatever , Demand , Mobile Commerce , 3596 , Parties , Negotiating Table , Middle , Strike Don T , I Don T Support , I James , 0k , Human Stories , Fundamentaljob , Human Impact , Duty Straightaway , Making , Front , Making Lists , Care Patient , In Fundamentaljob , Duties , Waiting Doctors , Auoin , Everyone , Connection , Management , Lists , Reduction , Lead , Speak Lists , Upper , Management Levels , Correlation , Cause And Effect , Point , How Lists , Oint , Shortage , Stress , Flow , Medicine , Schools , Medical School , Bad , Medicalj Bad , Fine , Y , Eole , Students , Five , Vocation , Kinds , Evidence , Evidence Reasons , Opinion , Space , Vocation Unlearning , Core , Tooth And Nail , This Time Next Year , Choice , Somewhere , Why Wouldn T You , Figure , Investment , Thejob , Couldn T , Patient Lives , Sense , Commitment , Full Time , Ones , Bob , Australia Today Taking To , First , Discussion , Care Of , Help , First You , Discussion L You , Neighbours , Both , Page , Latter , Ways , Family Members , Bowl Macro , Lisa Mccormick , Healthcare , Groups , Near Standstill , Walkout Byjunior , 56 , 156 , Jeremy Hunt , Sewage Discharges , Upgrades , Approval , Manchester , Regulator Ofwat , Ofjohn Lewis , End , Chair , Sharon White , Players , Staying On , Sport , Captain , Rory Mcilroy , Europe , Luke Donald , Ryder Cup , On Saturday , Victory , Successor , Home , Rome , Michale Beale , Aberdeen , 3 , Mistake , Goal , Rangers , Steven Davis , Points , Say , Referees , Spurs Versus Liverpool , Defeat , Leaders , Interim Charge , Sporting Integrity Being Undermined , Var , Significant Human Error , Ibrox , Celtic , Scottish Premiership , Tottenham , Pgmol , Review , Philadelphia Eagles , Teams , Sunday , Matches , Nfl , San Francisco 49ers , 49 , Forjust About Nhs , Texts , Season , Subject , Masses , 10am , 10 , Game , Human Error , Video Assistant Referee , Rolling Out , Player , Referee Body , Sporting Integrity , Orange , Gary Neville , Anything , Perceptions , Manchester United , Fans , Special Treatment , Learning Lessons , Var Decision , Club , Sympathy , Conversation , Replay , It Wrong , Bbc Five Live , Sounds , Company , Bbc Two , Michelle In , Disruptions , Laura , Deborah , Worcester , Friend , Behalf , Mine , Stratford Upon Avon , Battery , Defibrillator , Pacemaker , Heart Failure , Af , Overfive , Bypass , He Defibrillator , Atrialfibrillation , Nine , Emergency Problems , Consultant Secretary , Letter , Ijust , Cannot , Sort , Experience , Iloathed , Sabrina , Dartmoor , Emergency Resuscitation , Health Problems , Problems , On Blues , Health Roblems , Emergency , Accident , Waiting Room , A E , History , Arm , Sepsis , Intensive Care Unit , I Doctor , Intensive Care Unit Fora , Who Sepsis , Unit , Gosh , Total , Infora , Ifi , Delays , Funding , Organisation , Case , Hospital Case , Being , Ida , Ambulance , 0r , Admissions , 51 , Time , Serious , Strikers , York , The Waiting Room , You Su Ort , View , Don T You Ii Support The Strikers , Yourl , Cancer , Experiences , Support , Compassion , Everyone Support , Saved My To , Saved , Mean , 2016 , None , Complications , These , York Hospital , Ithink Complications , Thesem , I Cannot , Austerity , Of Strike , Ai Strike , It Lot , Lotj , Ai , Rachel , 87 , 38 , 12 , 5 , 60 ,