in the corporate world, take apart what we know, they were coming back actually from a trip in africa and could explain why a b they were just altogether at the time. this could explain why a b they were 'ust altogether at the timei altogether at the time. this is interesting — altogether at the time. this is interesting because _ altogether at the time. this is interesting because what - altogether at the time. this is interesting because what we | altogether at the time. this is i interesting because what we are altogether at the time. this is - interesting because what we are not able to identify properly is where this video that appears just a few days ago it had been shot, when it had been shot and indeed what wagner �*s operations look like on the ground but you are suggesting that this was the return journey from that operation in africa?- this was the return journey from that operation in africa? we've been filmin: that operation in africa? we've been filming planes— that operation in africa? we've been filming planes and _ that operation in africa? we've been filming planes and three _ that operation in africa? we've been filming planes and three days - that operation in africa? we've been filming planes and three days ago i filming planes and three days ago there were actually two planes that are used by the wagner group going to... at the time. if you look carefully at the video, in the background you see a type of pick up that they use which is only sold and molly and central african republic. let me bring in our panel, you've been following some of this where wagner would return to on the continent but all eyes currently on the share, problems in niger after the share, problems in niger after the coup and prigozhin we presumed it would be looking to take advantage of that. do you think this perhaps undermines russia's operations when it comes to niger? yet it is what we were speculating about _ yet it is what we were speculating about in_ yet it is what we were speculating about in the last segment and i've -ot about in the last segment and i've got to— about in the last segment and i've got to tell— about in the last segment and i've got to tell you i think this is all speculation at this point. what happens — speculation at this point. what happens to wagner 's operations in africa, _ happens to wagner 's operations in africa, were — happens to wagner 's operations in africa, were they really dependent on prigozhin or now that putin had already— on prigozhin or now that putin had already as — on prigozhin or now that putin had already as you know withheld funding from the _ already as you know withheld funding from the wagner group for some of these _ from the wagner group for some of these things, if they were trying to do it through the military itself were _ do it through the military itself were they doubling down on this. you seak on were they doubling down on this. speak on you were they doubling down on this. w'm. speak on you to a lot of people in security circles in the united states, what will they be able to do in investigating whether this was a false flag operation which we've still got to consider is a possibility given the history of, of the kremlin �*s operations. will they be able to look at how this plane was brought down and in what fashion? ~ ., �* ,, .,~ ., fashion? well, i won't speak for the cia because — fashion? well, i won't speak for the cia because i _ fashion? well, i won't speak for the cia because i have _ fashion? well, i won't speak for the cia because i have nothing - fashion? well, i won't speak for the cia because i have nothing to - fashion? well, i won't speak for the cia because i have nothing to do . cia because i have nothing to do with them, — cia because i have nothing to do with them, but they do have very excellent — with them, but they do have very excellent methods at looking into who was — excellent methods at looking into who was shooting from where, when, looking _ who was shooting from where, when, looking at _ who was shooting from where, when, looking at video, looking at other intelligence, and so we will leave it to our — intelligence, and so we will leave it to our intelligence committee. the british government said tonight more direct that it's keeping an eye on what's happening, it's following events closely. do you think this has implications for security here in the uk? , has implications for security here inthe uk? ,, ., has implications for security here in the uk?— in the uk? this precise incident a art in the uk? this precise incident apart from _ in the uk? this precise incident apart from reminding _ in the uk? this precise incident apart from reminding us - in the uk? this precise incident apart from reminding us that i in the uk? this precise incidentl apart from reminding us that the in the uk? this precise incident - apart from reminding us that the way that russia _ apart from reminding us that the way that russia were _ apart from reminding us that the way that russia were leaders— apart from reminding us that the way that russia were leaders in— apart from reminding us that the way that russia were leaders in russia i that russia were leaders in russia behave _ that russia were leaders in russia behave with — that russia were leaders in russia behave with their— that russia were leaders in russia behave with their opponents i that russia were leaders in russia behave with their opponents is i behave with their opponents is mediaeval. _ behave with their opponents is mediaeval, it's, _ behave with their opponents is mediaeval, it's, in— behave with their opponents is mediaeval, it's, in its- behave with their opponents is mediaeval, it's, in its ferocityl behave with their opponents is i mediaeval, it's, in its ferocity and its lease — mediaeval, it's, in its ferocity and its lease illness. _ mediaeval, it's, in its ferocity and its lease illness. i'm _ mediaeval, it's, in its ferocity and its lease illness. i'm not - mediaeval, it's, in its ferocity and its lease illness. i'm not sure i mediaeval, it's, in its ferocity and its lease illness. i'm not sure —— i its lease illness. i'm not sure —— in its _ its lease illness. i'm not sure —— in its lethality. _ its lease illness. i'm not sure —— in its lethality. british _ its lease illness. i'm not sure —— in its lethality. british fighter. in its lethality. british fighter 'ets in its lethality. british fighter jets got— in its lethality. british fighter jets got close _ in its lethality. british fighter jets got close to _ in its lethality. british fighter jets got close to a _ in its lethality. british fighter jets got close to a russian i in its lethality. british fighter- jets got close to a russian bomber and i_ jets got close to a russian bomber and i read — jets got close to a russian bomber and i read this— jets got close to a russian bomber and i read this is— jets got close to a russian bomber and i read this is a _ jets got close to a russian bomber and i read this is a lot _ jets got close to a russian bomber and i read this is a lot more - jets got close to a russian bomber and i read this is a lot more goingi and i read this is a lot more going on of— and i read this is a lot more going on of this— and i read this is a lot more going on of this than _ and i read this is a lot more going on of this than there _ and i read this is a lot more going on of this than there was a - and i read this is a lot more going on of this than there was a year . on of this than there was a year or two hack— on of this than there was a year or two hack in— on of this than there was a year or two back in the _ on of this than there was a year or two back in the invasion _ on of this than there was a year or two back in the invasion of- on of this than there was a year or. two back in the invasion of ukraine. there _ two back in the invasion of ukraine. there are _ two back in the invasion of ukraine. there are ways _ two back in the invasion of ukraine. there are ways in _ two back in the invasion of ukraine. there are ways in which _ two back in the invasion of ukraine. there are ways in which russia i two back in the invasion of ukraine. there are ways in which russia is i there are ways in which russia is trying _ there are ways in which russia is trying to— there are ways in which russia is trying to intimidate _ there are ways in which russia is trying to intimidate us, _ there are ways in which russia is trying to intimidate us, is- there are ways in which russia is trying to intimidate us, is trying. trying to intimidate us, is trying to remind — trying to intimidate us, is trying to remind us— trying to intimidate us, is trying to remind us of— trying to intimidate us, is trying to remind us of their— trying to intimidate us, is trying to remind us of their presence i trying to intimidate us, is trying i to remind us of their presence and they fly— to remind us of their presence and they fly really _ to remind us of their presence and they fly really quite _ to remind us of their presence and they fly really quite close - to remind us of their presence and they fly really quite close to - to remind us of their presence and they fly really quite close to our. they fly really quite close to our airspace — they fly really quite close to our airspace it— they fly really quite close to our airspace. ifyou— they fly really quite close to our airspace. if you are _ they fly really quite close to our airspace. if you are doing - they fly really quite close to our. airspace. if you are doing national security— airspace. if you are doing national security now— airspace. if you are doing national security now in _ airspace. if you are doing national security now in the _ airspace. if you are doing national security now in the uk, _ airspace. if you are doing national security now in the uk, you'd i airspace. if you are doing national security now in the uk, you'd be i security now in the uk, you'd be watching — security now in the uk, you'd be watching this _ security now in the uk, you'd be watching this closely _ security now in the uk, you'd be watching this closely and... i security now in the uk, you'd be watching this closely and... this i watching this closely and... possible. on you, the reason watching this closely and...- possible. on you, the reason i watching this closely and..— possible. on you, the reason i asked that question is there is a pattern here that we've seen it with the general who is in charge, he's been removed, he's been put injail. there is a clean—up operation under way and when there is a clean—up of this kind of dissidents and people considered to be traders, there tends to be ramifications for other countries. . �* , tends to be ramifications for other countries. ., �*, ., , , countries. that's absolutely right, and i think the _ countries. that's absolutely right, and i think the part _ countries. that's absolutely right, and i think the part we _ countries. that's absolutely right, and i think the part we haven't i and i think the part we haven't discussed _ and i think the part we haven't discussed a lot yet is how does this all impact — discussed a lot yet is how does this all impact the war in ukraine? he was really— all impact the war in ukraine? he was really the man who created the defences _ was really the man who created the defences that are now proving so hard _ defences that are now proving so hard for — defences that are now proving so hard for the ukrainian military to push _ hard for the ukrainian military to push through. he has been removed, a lot of— push through. he has been removed, a lot of people _ push through. he has been removed, a lot of people say that he was russia's_ lot of people say that he was russia's best general in this fight, does _ russia's best general in this fight, does that— russia's best general in this fight, does that mean edge there is an opening — does that mean edge there is an opening for russian government to take advantage? | opening for russian government to take advantage?— take advantage? i know vitelli you have been keeping _ take advantage? i know vitelli you have been keeping across - take advantage? i know vitelli you have been keeping across things i have been keeping across things tonight, what more can you tell us about the lines that are coming out from moscow? they have confirmed that dimitri utkin was on board. that's what we've got from russia's civil invasion. this is essentially from the same list or a passenger manifest that was made public earlier today. the latest i have from russia was... from russia's emergency services is that they have recovered ten bodies from the crash site and the search operation is complete. the telegram channels linked to wagner, they have confirmed, or they are saying that both yevgeny prigozhin and dimitri utkin are dead, as a result of actions by russia's, traders of russia, that's a quote. what we haven't got at the moment is any official word, any confirmation from security services that have recovered the bodies that, they've not confirmed the identities of the people they found at the crash site. reports say that some of the bodies are badly burned, and disfigured. so that suggests that it may be a while before officials definitively confirm whether or not yevgeny prigozhin was on board the plane that crashed earlier today. flan prigozhin was on board the plane that crashed earlier today. can we talk, set this _ that crashed earlier today. can we talk, set this in _ that crashed earlier today. can we talk, set this in the _ that crashed earlier today. can we talk, set this in the context i that crashed earlier today. can we talk, set this in the context of i talk, set this in the context of what has been happening today, because of vladimir putin appeared on the, at this brics summit. he was appearing by video link. and there is clearly a push from the russians and the chinese to spread this sort of authoritarian government around the world. do you think there are countries like south africa, brazil, may be the indians as well, looking at events like this who think we don't want to get into bed too closely with the government who runs its affairs like this?— its affairs like this? that's a very aood its affairs like this? that's a very good point. _ its affairs like this? that's a very good point. i'm _ its affairs like this? that's a very good point, i'm sure _ its affairs like this? that's a very good point, i'm sure the - its affairs like this? that's a very l good point, i'm sure the brazilians on the _ good point, i'm sure the brazilians on the indians are thinking that. if you notice — on the indians are thinking that. if you notice the outcome of this brics summit, _ you notice the outcome of this brics summit, china and russia are trying to expand _ summit, china and russia are trying to expand to — summit, china and russia are trying to expand to the number of members in brics— to expand to the number of members in brics and the indians are saying not so fast, — in brics and the indians are saying not so fast, they don't really want to run— not so fast, they don't really want to run afoul— not so fast, they don't really want to run afoul of the united states and europe. the brics was always a hit of— and europe. the brics was always a hit of an— and europe. the brics was always a bit of an artificial construct, it still— bit of an artificial construct, it still is — bit of an artificial construct, it still is i— bit of an artificial construct, it still is. i have to tell you when i was _ still is. i have to tell you when i was in — still is. i have to tell you when i was in africa a few months ago i was 'ust was in africa a few months ago i was just stunned — was in africa a few months ago i was just stunned of the ubiquity of chinese — just stunned of the ubiquity of chinese and russian disinformation. hammering overand over chinese and russian disinformation. hammering over and over again that the war— hammering over and over again that the war in_ hammering over and over again that the war in ukraine is america's fault, — the war in ukraine is america's fault, europe 's fault, this is neocolonialism, it'sjust outrageous. there are governments that don't— outrageous. there are governments that don't have the means to push back, _ that don't have the means to push back, and — that don't have the means to push back, and i— that don't have the means to push back, and i have to tell you i have to complement the bbc, you are one of the _ to complement the bbc, you are one of the few— to complement the bbc, you are one of the few news organisations are really _ of the few news organisations are really trying to do work and all of these _ really trying to do work and all of these markets. and we've got to push back _ these markets. and we've got to push back. . . these markets. and we've got to push back. ., ., ., ., ., ~ ., back. yeah, that information, i know what the news _ back. yeah, that information, i know what the news organisations - back. yeah, that information, i know what the news organisations do i back. yeah, that information, i know what the news organisations do as i what the news organisations do as well, but how crucial do you think that information is from respect to news organisations to countering the misinformation that is out there? 100% critical. i'll give you another example. — 100% critical. i'll give you another example. i— 100% critical. i'll give you another example, i spent the last three weeks — example, i spent the last three weeks in — example, i spent the last three weeks in southeast asian, vietnam, laos, _ weeks in southeast asian, vietnam, laos, cambodia, they note that they are getting _ laos, cambodia, they note that they are getting propaganda from their own governments who are often closely — own governments who are often closely allied with the chinese, or not, closely allied with the chinese, or not. trying — closely allied with the chinese, or not, trying to hedge their bets. but they are _ not, trying to hedge their bets. but they are hungry for real information and thoughtful information, and so, you know. _ and thoughtful information, and so, you know, this wasn't meant to be a bbc infomercial but it is critical to give — bbc infomercial but it is critical to give people accurate data on which _ to give people accurate data on which to — to give people accurate data on which to base decisions. and to give people accurate data on which to base decisions. and we were auoin to which to base decisions. and we were going to talk — which to base decisions. and we were going to talk much _ which to base decisions. and we were going to talk much more _ which to base decisions. and we were going to talk much more about i which to base decisions. and we were going to talk much more about the i going to talk much more about the brics summits tonight, but i think what the african countries really want is greater representation with international bodies. they don't want to rerun the kroll cold war, proxy wars on the african continent they lost out from. do you think the g7, in particular has to change its ways in order to counter this threat in the way that china and russia is trying to change the brics organisation. i trying to change the brics organisation.— organisation. i agree with everything _ organisation. i agree with everything on _ organisation. i agree with everything on you - organisation. i agree with everything on you has i organisation. i agree with| everything on you hasjust organisation. i agree with i everything on you hasjust said, about— everything on you hasjust said, about the — everything on you hasjust said, about the risks _ everything on you hasjust said, about the risks the _ everything on you hasjust said, about the risks the west - everything on you hasjust said, about the risks the west is i everything on you hasjust said, i about the risks the west is running in the _ about the risks the west is running in the way— about the risks the west is running in the way that _ about the risks the west is running in the way that we _ about the risks the west is running in the way that we are _ about the risks the west is running in the way that we are potentially i in the way that we are potentially losing _ in the way that we are potentially losing ground _ in the way that we are potentially losing ground in _ in the way that we are potentially losing ground in russia _ in the way that we are potentially losing ground in russia —— - in the way that we are potentially losing ground in russia —— i'm i losing ground in russia —— i'm sorry, — losing ground in russia —— i'm sorry, in— losing ground in russia —— i'm sorry, in africa. _ losing ground in russia —— i'm sorry, in africa. two _ losing ground in russia —— i'm sorry, in africa. two russian. sorry, in africa. two russian disintegration. _ sorry, in africa. two russian disintegration. actually, i. sorry, in africa. two russian. disintegration. actually, ithink the whole _ disintegration. actually, ithink the whole existence _ disintegration. actually, ithink the whole existence of - disintegration. actually, ithink the whole existence of the i disintegration. actually, ithink. the whole existence of the brics group, _ the whole existence of the brics group, it's— the whole existence of the brics group, it's hard— the whole existence of the brics group, it's hard to _ the whole existence of the brics group, it's hard to see _ the whole existence of the brics group, it's hard to see why- the whole existence of the brics| group, it's hard to see why india, brazil. _ group, it's hard to see why india, brazil. and — group, it's hard to see why india, brazil, and south _ group, it's hard to see why india, brazil, and south africa - group, it's hard to see why india, brazil, and south africa should i group, it's hard to see why india, i brazil, and south africa should see anything to— brazil, and south africa should see anything to sympathise _ brazil, and south africa should see anything to sympathise with - brazil, and south africa should see anything to sympathise with what i anything to sympathise with what russia _ anything to sympathise with what russia has— anything to sympathise with what russia has done _ anything to sympathise with what russia has done in— anything to sympathise with what russia has done in ukraine - anything to sympathise with what russia has done in ukraine for. russia has done in ukraine for example _ russia has done in ukraine for example we _ russia has done in ukraine for example. we should - russia has done in ukraine for example. we should asking i russia has done in ukraine for- example. we should asking ourselves, what have _ example. we should asking ourselves, what have we — example. we should asking ourselves, what have we done _ example. we should asking ourselves, what have we done over— example. we should asking ourselves, what have we done over the _ example. we should asking ourselves, what have we done over the past i example. we should asking ourselves, what have we done over the past 30, i what have we done over the past 30, 40 years _ what have we done over the past 30, 40 years with — what have we done over the past 30, 40 years with the _ what have we done over the past 30, 40 years with the leading _ what have we done over the past 30, 40 years with the leading countries i 40 years with the leading countries of the _ 40 years with the leading countries of the global— 40 years with the leading countries of the global south, _ 40 years with the leading countries of the global south, to _ 40 years with the leading countries of the global south, to put - 40 years with the leading countries of the global south, to put them i 40 years with the leading countries of the global south, to put them in this position — of the global south, to put them in this position where _ of the global south, to put them in this position where they— of the global south, to put them in this position where they feel - this position where they feel comfortable _ this position where they feel comfortable or— this position where they feel comfortable or appear- this position where they feel comfortable or appear to i this position where they feell comfortable or appear to feel reasonably— comfortable or appear to feel reasonably comfortable i comfortable or appear to feel. reasonably comfortable aligning themselves_ reasonably comfortable aligning themselves with _ reasonably comfortable aligning themselves with russia - reasonably comfortable aligning themselves with russia and - reasonably comfortable aligning i themselves with russia and china, bil themselves with russia and china, big failures — themselves with russia and china, big failures of _ themselves with russia and china, big failures of policy _ themselves with russia and china, big failures of policy there. - themselves with russia and china, big failures of policy there. and . big failures of policy there. and you put— big failures of policy there. and you put your— big failures of policy there. and you put your finger— big failures of policy there. and you put your finger i— big failures of policy there. and you put your finger i think- you put your finger i think christian. _ you put your finger i think christian, the _ you put your finger i think christian, the g7, - you put your finger i think christian, the g7, the - you put your finger i think christian, the g7, the richi you put your finger i think- christian, the g7, the rich man's club, _ christian, the g7, the rich man's club, wider— christian, the g7, the rich man's club, wider membership- christian, the g7, the rich man's club, wider membership than. christian, the g7, the rich man's . club, wider membership than that. but we _ club, wider membership than that. but we haver“— club, wider membership than that. but we haven't really— club, wider membership than that. but we haven't really tried - club, wider membership than that. but we haven't really tried hard - but we haven't really tried hard enough — but we haven't really tried hard enough to— but we haven't really tried hard enough to give _ but we haven't really tried hard enough to give them _ but we haven't really tried hard enough to give them the - but we haven't really tried hard enough to give them the sort . but we haven't really tried hard| enough to give them the sort of representation— enough to give them the sort of representation they— enough to give them the sort of representation they believe - enough to give them the sort of| representation they believe they deserve — representation they believe they deserve in _ representation they believe they deserve. ., ., , ., , deserve. in our global institutions. yeah, deserve. in our global institutions. yeah. and — deserve. in our global institutions. yeah, and trusting. _ deserve. in our global institutions. yeah, and trusting. doctor- deserve. in our global institutions. yeah, and trusting. doctor ariel i yeah, and trusting. doctor ariel cohen, i'm sure doctor cohen you are listening to that. do you endorse what lord derek was saying there, in the way that china and russia is trying to run the brics organisation?- trying to run the brics organisation? trying to run the brics oruanisation? ~ , , , organisation? while it is impossible to have india _ organisation? while it is impossible to have india and _ organisation? while it is impossible to have india and china _ organisation? while it is impossible to have india and china in _ organisation? while it is impossible to have india and china in the - organisation? while it is impossible to have india and china in the same i to have india and china in the same organisation and expect that new delhi is going to take dick. from beijing. —— they country from brazil. lou the president, is dyed in the wool, anti—american leftist, a traditional latin american leftists and he despises the united states, so it is nothing to do with representation, it has everything to do with ideological proclivities of that or other leader, in africa yes, the soviet union which has identified with russia, is viewed as the supporter of the african national congress, the a and c. the ruling party in south africa, and i would add, the russians are trying to sell seven nuclear reactors to south africa in their credible reports of huge bribes that were offered to south africa at the time. there is notjust ideology or representation, but business the way russians do business. back to prigozhin, i think it's absolutely fascinating that putin decided apparently to get rid of prigozhin despite the fact that the wagner military private company was russia's standard—bearer in africa and also they had assets in syria. how the wagner soldiers, fighters rather, are going to integrate into the russian defence forces when they were personally dedicated and loyal to prigozhin remains to be seen, but to prigozhin remains to be seen, but to me this story reminds of a famous saying by winston churchill. that the power fight in the saying by winston churchill. that the powerfight in the kremlin saying by winston churchill. that the power fight in the kremlin are like the bulldogs under the carpet, and when the bones fly out from beneath its obvious who one. literally, the bones flew out from under the carpet today. what literally, the bones flew out from under the carpet today. what do you think i'm cohen, _ under the carpet today. what do you think i'm cohen, this _ under the carpet today. what do you think i'm cohen, this is going - under the carpet today. what do you think i'm cohen, this is going to - think i'm cohen, this is going to mean then? anya has already said tonight that it's too early to draw any conclusions as to what this means for the wagner group in africa or in ukraine. but talk to us, we are not really focused on the war on ukraine, what is happened there since the coup, since wagner withdrew from the areas around buck mood? —— 10 one. once they were pulled out by prigozhin, other units went in, i monitored it closely. some of these units are not trained well at all, some of the recruits are trained forjust one month. however, there is so many of them that they were successfully resisting the ukrainian counteroffensive. the defence lines that are built from the mine fields, barbed wire and poured concrete are holding back the ukrainian counteroffensive, unfortunately for cou nteroffe nsive, u nfortu nately for ukraine. counteroffensive, unfortunately for ukraine. raising a lot of questions about how the final settlement would look and at the same time we see the concentration of the russian forces in the north, trying to take coop cities. it may not be a standstill, as the us national security adviser jake sullivan said the other day, it's not a standstill. but it is a very slow slug for ukrainian 's. the question is how this is going to develop and the question for the west is how fast can we push the necessary equipment to achieve the ukrainian victory.— ukrainian victory. let's get a bit on that, ukrainian _ ukrainian victory. let's get a bit on that, ukrainian mp - ukrainian victory. let's get a bit on that, ukrainian mp for - ukrainian victory. let's get a bit| on that, ukrainian mp for edessa ukrainian victory. let's get a bit. on that, ukrainian mp for edessa is with us, thank you alexi. how far can ukraine push, we were talking on the programme last night about some of the intelligence that is now circulating which suggests the west isn't doing very well, at supplying the weapons that the ukrainians need. ~ .., the weapons that the ukrainians need. . ., need. we can say it without intelligence, _ need. we can say it without intelligence, we _ need. we can say it without intelligence, we can - need. we can say it without intelligence, we can say - need. we can say it without| intelligence, we can sayjust watching _ intelligence, we can sayjust watching on the map and how the counteroffensive is developing. ukraine — counteroffensive is developing. ukraine is in counteroffensive but do we _ ukraine is in counteroffensive but do we have — ukraine is in counteroffensive but do we have advantage in the number of troops? _ do we have advantage in the number of troops? do we have advantage in air, not. _ of troops? do we have advantage in air, not, russia has advantage in air. air, not, russia has advantage in air do _ air, not, russia has advantage in air do we — air, not, russia has advantage in air. do we have advantage in in artitterv. — air. do we have advantage in in artillery, not. we have advantage in morate _ artillery, not. we have advantage in morate but — artillery, not. we have advantage in morale but it is not enough. we need lon- morale but it is not enough. we need tong range _ morale but it is not enough. we need long range missiles thanks to the uk united _ long range missiles thanks to the uk united kingdom we have the shadow, but fdds— united kingdom we have the shadow, but f—16s should arrive next year, 0k, but f—16s should arrive next year, ok. you _ but f—16s should arrive next year, ok, you understand that next year is very ok, you understand that next year is verv far— ok, you understand that next year is very far away from us today. so if we really — very far away from us today. so if we really want to win this war, we realty— we really want to win this war, we really want — we really want to win this war, we really want to restore international honour— really want to restore international honour and — really want to restore international honour and the flow of weaponry we need for— honour and the flow of weaponry we need for this. honour and the flow of weaponry we need for this— need for this. because he would say no doubt what _ need for this. because he would say no doubt what we _ need for this. because he would say no doubt what we witness _ need for this. because he would say no doubt what we witness today - need for this. because he would say no doubt what we witness today in l no doubt what we witness today in the way the kremlin deals with its enemy is precisely the kind of control, powerthat enemy is precisely the kind of control, power that you don't want in kyiv, you don't want to return to those days, that's why the ukrainians fight.— those days, that's why the ukrainians fight. those days, that's why the ukrainians fi . ht. ., ukrainians fight. no, we will never return, ukrainians fight. no, we will never return. we — ukrainians fight. no, we will never return. we are _ ukrainians fight. no, we will never return, we are an _ ukrainians fight. no, we will never return, we are an independent - ukrainians fight. no, we will never i return, we are an independent nation and the _ return, we are an independent nation and the whole world now acknowledges that including the russians. everyone understands that there is a nation _ everyone understands that there is a nation and _ everyone understands that there is a nation and there is people, and there _ nation and there is people, and there is— nation and there is people, and there is a — nation and there is people, and there is a state, which is ready to sacrifice itself and people are ready— sacrifice itself and people are ready to _ sacrifice itself and people are ready to sacrifice their lives for their— ready to sacrifice their lives for their freedom. which is very important. in the moment when the world _ important. in the moment when the wortd is— important. in the moment when the world is divided between democracies and autocracies, integration of freedom — and autocracies, integration of freedom is probably is the crucial question— freedom is probably is the crucial question of the 21st century, so that is— question of the 21st century, so that is the _ question of the 21st century, so that is the historical meaning of what's — that is the historical meaning of what's going on right now in ukraine _ what's going on right now in ukraine. �* ., , , ., what's going on right now in ukraine. �* , , ., ukraine. but nobody is going to shed man tears ukraine. but nobody is going to shed many tears for _ ukraine. but nobody is going to shed many tears for yevgeny _ ukraine. but nobody is going to shed many tears for yevgeny prigozhin, i many tears for yevgeny prigozhin, not in ukraine at least i would hazard to guess.— not in ukraine at least i would hazard to guess. there is person with whom _ hazard to guess. there is person with whom we — hazard to guess. there is person with whom we would _ hazard to guess. there is person with whom we would cry - hazard to guess. there is person with whom we would cry even i hazard to guess. there is person i with whom we would cry even less, his name _ with whom we would cry even less, his name is— with whom we would cry even less, his name is vladimir putin. unfortunately he is still alive. but prigozhin — unfortunately he is still alive. but prigozhin it looks like he is not any more _ prigozhin it looks like he is not any more. from the very beginning of his mutinv. _ any more. from the very beginning of his mutinv. i— any more. from the very beginning of his mutiny, i think it was even in your— his mutiny, i think it was even in your life. — his mutiny, i think it was even in your life, now this planet is too smatt— your life, now this planet is too small for— your life, now this planet is too small for one of them. and they coutdn't— small for one of them. and they couldn't leave together on this planet— couldn't leave together on this planet and just one of them can continue — planet and just one of them can continue and prigozhin had stopped, he did _ continue and prigozhin had stopped, he did not— continue and prigozhin had stopped, he did not attack moscow in the last moment— he did not attack moscow in the last moment and now he paid his price for this, i_ moment and now he paid his price for this, iwas— moment and now he paid his price for this, i was sure that putin will never. — this, i was sure that putin will never, never let it go and in russia and russia — never, never let it go and in russia and russia shows its strength and putin— and russia shows its strength and putin showed his weakness two months a-o putin showed his weakness two months ago so _ putin showed his weakness two months ago so the _ putin showed his weakness two months ago so the only way for him in some ways. _ ago so the only way for him in some ways, not— ago so the only way for him in some ways, not completely, but in some ways, not completely, but in some way to _ ways, not completely, but in some way to repair his authority and his controt— way to repair his authority and his control over — way to repair his authority and his control over the russia was to kill prigozhin — control over the russia was to kill prigozhin. we should probably get into it _ prigozhin. we should probably get into it this— prigozhin. we should probably get into it this evening, probably because _ into it this evening, probably because i_ into it this evening, probably because i didn't see the body of prigozhin — because i didn't see the body of prigozhin and taken into account the bones— prigozhin and taken into account the bones area — prigozhin and taken into account the bones area is like very far off from what's _ bones area is like very far off from what's going on in reality with prigozhin _ what's going on in reality with prigozhin wagner group. he probably is dead _ prigozhin wagner group. he probably is dead and, definitely we are not crving _ is dead and, definitely we are not crying for— is dead and, definitely we are not crying for him. by the way today is the day— crying for him. by the way today is the day of— crying for him. by the way today is the day of national flag of ukraine. at ukraine — the day of national flag of ukraine. at ukraine flag day, yes. it will no doubt lead to conspiracies that ukraine was involved in. i've already seen that. you've been very forthright with us so far about some of the operations, we were going to talk about the fact that in spite of it all, there has been such... on the battlefield —— ingenuity. the last week we have seen some extra ordinary attacks on the long range bombers, on masco high—rise buildings, and today on an airfield in crimea where they had anti—aircraft defences, an extraordinary explosion. do you think or could you tell us, our ukrainians managing with greater effect now to get behind russian enemy lines?— effect now to get behind russian enem lines? ., ., , , enemy lines? one more, absolutely astonishin: enemy lines? one more, absolutely astonishing operation _ enemy lines? one more, absolutely astonishing operation with - astonishing operation with ukrainians. they are recruited through— ukrainians. they are recruited through one of russian pilots and he ran away— through one of russian pilots and he ran away from russia with his helicopter and now we have both the pilot and _ helicopter and now we have both the pilot and the helicopter.— pilot and the helicopter. defected, defected today _ pilot and the helicopter. defected, defected today and _ pilot and the helicopter. defected, defected today and landed - pilot and the helicopter. defected, defected today and landed on i defected today and landed on ukrainian soil?— defected today and landed on ukrainian soil? ~ , ,., , ~ ukrainian soil? absolutely. i think it's to write _ ukrainian soil? absolutely. i think it's to write extraordinary - ukrainian soil? absolutely. i think it's to write extraordinary it i ukrainian soil? absolutely. i think it's to write extraordinary it shows that we _ it's to write extraordinary it shows that we have the potential and we will definitely continue to do our best _ will definitely continue to do our best so — will definitely continue to do our best so if— will definitely continue to do our best. so if to combine ukrainian courage — best. so if to combine ukrainian courage and ukrainian readiness to fi-ht courage and ukrainian readiness to fight with— courage and ukrainian readiness to fight with the quality of western weaponry and economical power of the west: _ weaponry and economical power of the west, combined into superpower which is the _ west, combined into superpower which is the superpower of the free world today— is the superpower of the free world today and _ is the superpower of the free world today and we can win clearly what's going _ today and we can win clearly what's going on— today and we can win clearly what's going on and we canjust, you know, ithink— going on and we canjust, you know, i think it _ going on and we canjust, you know, i think it will — going on and we canjust, you know, i think it will be crucial for us to have _ i think it will be crucial for us to have but — i think it will be crucial for us to have but it— i think it will be crucial for us to have. but it will continue in this incremental way in this hesitation about— incremental way in this hesitation about delivery of weaponry will continue — about delivery of weaponry will continue indefinitely because a lot of problems. yes we are losing people. — of problems. yes we are losing people, and we are losing our best people _ people, and we are losing our best people fin — people, and we are losing our best --eole. , ., , people, and we are losing our best --eole. , ., ., people. on you 'ust come in on that. i aet a people. on you 'ust come in on that. i get a rear— people. on you just come in on that. i get a real sense _ people. on you just come in on that. i get a real sense at _ people. on you just come in on that. i get a real sense at the _ people. on you just come in on that. i get a real sense at the moment i i get a real sense at the moment that we are at a really precarious moment. there is division within russia, we've seen that today. but on the other hand, the ukrainian counteroffensive is stuttering because the weapons aren't there. you could see a scenario if they are not there through the winter weather, they pick off some of the civilian infrastructure, we get a refugee crisis, perhaps we have a republican president in the white house, do you see some of the, the warning signs that are there that alexi is talking about? yet warning signs that are there that alexi is talking about?— alexi is talking about? yet there are and from _ alexi is talking about? yet there are and from the _ alexi is talking about? yet there are and from the us _ alexi is talking about? yet there are and from the us perspective j alexi is talking about? yet there i are and from the us perspective on two fronts, one, that there are maybe not enough weapons in the fight that are compatible, that are allowing the counteroffensive to go forward, but also increasing conversations with the us, uk, nato, about the strategy that the ukrainians are employing in the counteroffensive and maybe it's time to shift the strategy. all of those things are difficult, everyone is racing against the clock of the next winter, everyone is racing here in the united states against the clock of, i mean i can't tell you how we have wall—to—wall news coverage about trump's indictment and our own election. so we are entering political so leasees in the united states and it will harder to get the aid packages through the united states congress. i knowjake sullivan said they were going to get the next one through but it all becomes much more difficult. yeah, $26 million — becomes much more difficult. yeah, $26 million -- _ becomes much more difficult. yeah, $26 million -- $26 _ becomes much more difficult. yeah, $26 million -- $26 billion _ becomes much more difficult. yeah, $26 million -- $26 billion spending $26 million —— $26 billion spending bill before the house of representatives.- bill before the house of representatives. bill before the house of reresentatives. . ., _ representatives. and i would say it's 'ust, representatives. and i would say it'sjust. it's _ representatives. and i would say it'sjust, it's not _ representatives. and i would say it'sjust, it's not to _ representatives. and i would say it'sjust, it's not to be _ representatives. and i would say it'sjust, it's not to be taken i representatives. and i would say it'sjust, it's not to be taken for l it'sjust, it's not to be taken for granted — it'sjust, it's not to be taken for granted how much has already been done by— granted how much has already been done by the united states. these are really unprecedented _ done by the united states. these are really unprecedented numbers i done by the united states. these are really unprecedented numbers in i really unprecedented numbers in terms of aid packages to one country, even though it may not feel like enough i know that the button illustration is really spiting for it hard. . ., , ~ illustration is really spiting for ithard. . ,, , illustration is really spiting for ithard. ., ., , ,, , ., it hard. laura derek, 'ust a few seconds left, i it hard. laura derek, 'ust a few seconds left, just i it hard. laura derek, just a few seconds left, just very - it hard. laura derek, just a few seconds left, just very quickly, | seconds left, just very quickly, might not be done to european result, it mightjust be that the inventories are empty.- inventories are empty. that's possible. _ inventories are empty. that's possible. l — inventories are empty. that's possible, i think _ inventories are empty. that's possible, i think there - inventories are empty. that's possible, i think there are i inventories are empty. that'sl possible, i think there are real problems— possible, i think there are real problems certainly— possible, i think there are real problems certainly in - possible, i think there are real problems certainly in the i possible, i think there are real problems certainly in the uk, i problems certainly in the uk, stir cupboards — problems certainly in the uk, stir cupboards are _ problems certainly in the uk, stir cupboards are empty _ problems certainly in the uk, stir cupboards are empty we - problems certainly in the uk, stir cupboards are empty we would i problems certainly in the uk, stir. cupboards are empty we would have problems certainly in the uk, stir- cupboards are empty we would have to buy stuff— cupboards are empty we would have to buy stuff and _ cupboards are empty we would have to buy stuff and possibly _ cupboards are empty we would have to buy stuff and possibly ukrainians, i buy stuff and possibly ukrainians, the opposition _ buy stuff and possibly ukrainians, the opposition. money— buy stuff and possibly ukrainians, the opposition. money is- buy stuff and possibly ukrainians, the opposition. money is right, i buy stuff and possibly ukrainians, i the opposition. money is right, 90% of the _ the opposition. money is right, 90% of the ukrainian _ the opposition. money is right, 90% of the ukrainian military— the opposition. money is right, 90% of the ukrainian military is- the opposition. money is right, 90% of the ukrainian military is coming l of the ukrainian military is coming from _ of the ukrainian military is coming from america _ of the ukrainian military is coming from america. we _ of the ukrainian military is coming from america. we are _ of the ukrainian military is coming from america. we are in- of the ukrainian military is coming from america. we are in second . from america. we are in second place, _ from america. we are in second place. something— from america. we are in second place, something like _ from america. we are in second place, something like 89%. i from america. we are in second place, something like 89%. iirilr�*el place, something like 89%. we haven't place, something like 89%. haven't done enough. no, we place, something like 89%.“ haven't done enough. no, we need to do more, that is the message that is coming loud and clearfrom nato. it could have your company this evening, thank you also to panel laura derek and on human well, i hope you'll come back. of course there will be continuing coverage of that breaking news tonight from russia. that if guinea prigozhin, the man in your screen, the leader of the wagner group, is dead. and was one of the passengers on a plane that crashed in moscow earlier today, you're watching bbc news. hello there. we've seen a lot of cloud developing across much of the uk today, with the exception of some southern areas, where it has been warm in the sunshine. but in the coming days, it'll turn cooler here by several degrees. for the rest of the week and into the coming weekend, well, the theme is for it to be unsettled, i'm afraid. sunny spells, some scattered showers, and they will be heavy at times. tonight, we have an area of low pressure towards the northwest of the uk, and through the early hours of tomorrow morning, we'll see outbreaks of rain drifting north and east — some will be very heavy. further south, drier conditions here. but by tomorrow morning, some heavy showers developing along the south coast and into the channel islands. generally a mild night, 11—15 celsius. so tomorrow morning, it may get a little bit noisy for the channel islands with some thunderstorms here. they will then make their way along the south coast and in towards the southeast of england. some of that will be heavy and intense, there could be disruption. otherwise, once it clears, a few thunderstorms here and there, but generally dry across wales, northern england, into northern ireland, and for central and eastern areas of scotland. for many of us, temperatures in and around average for the time of year. by the end of the week, it's still a bit of a north—south split across europe, in terms of heat and unsettled conditions. cooler weather will prevail across northern areas, but across central and southern europe, the heatwave will continue into friday — for parts of spain, for example, we're likely to still see temperatures close to a0 celsius. but across the uk, it's a freshening feel — northerly winds, particularly for northern and western areas, will make it feel cooler. there will be a lot of dry weather, there will be sunshine, but some of the showers that we see developing through the day on friday are likely to be very heavy and with the odd rumble of thunder. cooler conditions, too, towards the southeast, but here, largely dry — temperatures falling back to about 20—21 celsius. it will be a similar picture into saturday, the northerly winds stay with us. there will be quite a bit of dry weather and sunshine — but again, the scattered showers that pop up through the day on saturday, i wouldn't be surprised to get some thunder and lightning mixed in. but for many of us, temperatures will be in and around average for the time of year. so it is going to be an unsettled start to this weekend. into sunday, cloudy and damp at times, but an improving picture into monday. tonight at ten... the man who led russian mercenaries in ukraine and challenged putin appears to have died near moscow. in the last hour yevgeny prigozhin, head of the wagner group and once close to the russian president, is confirmed to have been on board a private plane that crashed. there were no survivors. i don't know what's happened but i'm not surprised. here in moscow no surprise among russians, many of whom had thought mr prigozhin's days were numbered. and also coming up on tonight's programme... the wilko collapse — thousands of redundancies are likely after administrators fail to find a buyer. and india puts a lander on the moon, allowing its south pole to be explored for the first time.

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