periods. and what about us right here? are we so different? do negative attitudes in our society still lurk and prevail and those stereotypes, misogynistic stereotypes. you are too emotional! you are in a bad mood! have you experienced that? these attitudes, our period still seen as taboo for some? is there a lack of understanding from many. we have what is called period poverty right here right now. do we take period seriously? i really am looking forward to this conversation. get in touch. and here is the news from deena campbell. senior police officers in northern ireland are due to be questioned this morning about a major data breach. the details of thousands of officers and civilian staff members were made public by mistake. a search and rescue mission is continuing in hawaii, where at least six people have been killed in wildfires. the tourist town of lahaina on the island of maui has been badly hit. marks and spencer, politicians and environmental groups are calling on the government to remove the 20% vat on period underwear. the open letter asks for the tax on the products to be lifted in the upcoming autumn statement. travel agents and online tour operators say the uk s wash—out summer has caused an increase in last—minute bookings for holidays abroad. the industry says all—inclusive deals are especially popular, as people try to control their spending. do we take periods seriously? to the stereotypical negative attitudes, the stigma, lurking under the surface two or not conspicuously. your experiences are as ever all important. menstrual leave, the first legislation, it is part of it obviously, the first minute legislation for paid menstrual leave was in the soviet union in 1922. it was introduced under the bolshevik regime five years after the revolution to provide women working in factories with two or three days of paid leave per month. which countries have some form of paid... two we do not have it any more russia. which countries haveit it any more russia. which countries have it now? indonesia since 19118, japan since 1947, south have it now? indonesia since 1948, japan since 1947, south korea since 2001, taiwan, 2002, zambia 2015, and famously, spain, 2023. this year. it was a fascinating debate, an iberian debate. i was following it at the time, very closely in my house where i have four adult daughters. call 08085 909 693. text 85058. the whole issue of period pants and menstrual leave. these are symptomatic, emblematic of attitudes in our society. let us talk to molly fenton, founder of love your period campaign group. good morning. goad campaign group. good morning. good morninu. campaign group. good morning. good morning- and — campaign group. good morning. good morning. and manjit _ campaign group. good morning. good morning. and manjit gill, _ campaign group. good morning. good morning. and manjit gill, the - campaign group. good morning. good morning. and manjit gill, the first. morning. and man'it gill, the first eriod morning. and man'it gill, the first period charity — morning. and manjit gill, the first period charity registered - morning. and manjit gill, the first period charity registered in - morning. and manjit gill, the first period charity registered in the . morning. and manjit gill, the first | period charity registered in the uk, india, gambia and the usa. what i want to get to as the negativity that still lingers, the taboo, the stigma, do women in our country in 2023 still encounter this on a daily basis? what is your experience or the expense of others?— the expense of others? 100%. all these tepics _ the expense of others? 10096. all these topics link _ the expense of others? 10096. all these topics link together, - the expense of others? 10096. all these topics link together, we - the expense of others? 10096. alli these topics link together, we are not only talking about a tax on what comes from periods, this is body positivity, body acceptance, teaching young girls, being a woman is a pretty cool thing, but at the moment we are teaching them... bank? what do you come across? we are trying to get your zoom effects at the moment, but we can hear you. what is your experience of this? love your period works are renting menstrual cycle. we have very little knowledge and we talk to young people about this because no one talked to us growing up on the facts that came at puberty, things like contraception, our body is changing and what it means, a negative effect when you look in the mirror and you see that you're changing and the way your body look changes and nobody has told you why. everything that happens being a woman, there is a lack of education around it, we are not taught these things and they can negatively transpire into our day—to—day happenings. negatively transpire into our day-to-day happenings. man'it gill, is that our day-to-day happenings. man'it gill, is that your experience? _ day-to-day happenings. man'it gill, is that your experience? we _ day-to-day happenings. manjit gill, is that your experience? we know i is that your experience? we know there are cultural and religious differences across the world and women living in desperate conditions and discriminated against in profound ways. what about here? listening to molly, it is shocking that you are never told about your period, never had it explained when you were growing up. that would be to some years, extraordinary. that is the truth, _ to some years, extraordinary. that is the truth, we _ to some years, extraordinary. that is the truth, we have _ to some years, extraordinary. that is the truth, we have sex education in this_ is the truth, we have sex education in this country. most of us leave the education system not understanding our menstrual cycle, -irls understanding our menstrual cycle, girls as _ understanding our menstrual cycle, girls as young as seven can start bleeding — girls as young as seven can start bleeding every month for the next four decades of their lives and they have to _ four decades of their lives and they have to learn on the job. things are changing _ have to learn on the job. things are changing from when we first started. when _ changing from when we first started. when i _ changing from when we first started. when i first — changing from when we first started. when i first started this organisation, it will be ten years next _ organisation, it will be ten years next year. — organisation, it will be ten years next year, what we found initially was in _ next year, what we found initially was in countries across africa, across — was in countries across africa, across asia. _ was in countries across africa, across asia, we were shocked when we found _ across asia, we were shocked when we found out _ across asia, we were shocked when we found out girls in the uk do not have _ found out girls in the uk do not have access to period products or cannot _ have access to period products or cannot afford them, and there is a missing _ cannot afford them, and there is a missing gap in education. it's the same _ missing gap in education. it's the same video— missing gap in education. it's the same video in sex education, you close _ same video in sex education, you close your— same video in sex education, you close your eyes and your ears and you think. — close your eyes and your ears and you think, 0k, close your eyes and your ears and you think, ok, that was explanation of you think, 0k, that was explanation of how— you think, 0k, that was explanation of how our— you think, ok, that was explanation of how our body works but they do not talk _ of how our body works but they do not talk about menstruation enough for us _ not talk about menstruation enough for us to— not talk about menstruation enough for us to deal with it. is not talk about menstruation enough for us to deal with it. is it not talk about menstruation enough for us to deal with it.— for us to deal with it. is it to do with the fact — for us to deal with it. is it to do with the fact that _ for us to deal with it. is it to do with the fact that there - for us to deal with it. is it to do with the fact that there are - for us to deal with it. is it to do with the fact that there are still that kind of shame? it is projected by some men, the stigma lurks. is that...? we know about it in other countries, we see it, is conspicuously, is it right here right in the uk? it conspicuously, is it right here right in the uk?— conspicuously, is it right here riaht in the uk? , ., ., , right in the uk? it is not only men, it is women — right in the uk? it is not only men, it is women too. _ right in the uk? it is not only men, it is women too. some _ right in the uk? it is not only men, it is women too. some will- right in the uk? it is not only men, it is women too. some will say - right in the uk? it is not only men, it is women too. some will say we | it is women too. some will say we should _ it is women too. some will say we should not— it is women too. some will say we should not talk about whispering the word period because they have not eradicated — word period because they have not eradicated their own stigma and shame _ eradicated their own stigma and shame yet and that is the same for teachers _ shame yet and that is the same for teachers in — shame yet and that is the same for teachers in schools. we have to train _ teachers in schools. we have to train teachers to eradicate their own stigma and shame around periods so that— own stigma and shame around periods so that they— own stigma and shame around periods so that they can deliver menstrual education — so that they can deliver menstrual education and not pass on the stigma and shame _ education and not pass on the stigma and shame that they had all their lives _ and shame that they had all their lives. ~ . , , , lives. which is why it is so good and important _ lives. which is why it is so good and important to _ lives. which is why it is so good and important to have - lives. which is why it is so good and important to have this - and important to have this conversation. forthose and important to have this conversation. for those who do not understand, how bad can it period be? haste understand, how bad can it period be? ~ . understand, how bad can it period be? . ., ., ., , ., be? we are hearing and seeing more and more peeple _ be? we are hearing and seeing more and more people coming _ be? we are hearing and seeing more and more people coming forward - be? we are hearing and seeing more | and more people coming forward with extreme period pain, the fault of society and the way things are and not blaming one group of people, but doctors, it is part of being a woman. people with extra symptoms which could be a period but are so bad that they might not be, asking for explanation and being told, it is the joy of being a woman. when you look at the statistics and the studies... , ., ., .., studies... sorry to enter out, can ou studies... sorry to enter out, can you exolain _ studies... sorry to enter out, can you exolain that _ studies... sorry to enter out, can you explain that bed _ studies... sorry to enter out, can you explain that bed again? - studies... sorry to enter out, can you explain that bed again? the | studies... sorry to enter out, can i you explain that bed again? the joy of being a woman two that you explain that bed again? the 'oy of being a woman mod you explain that bed again? the 'oy of being a woman two that is what we heard the most. _ of being a woman two that is what we heard the most. you _ of being a woman two that is what we heard the most. you go _ of being a woman two that is what we heard the most. you go to _ of being a woman two that is what we heard the most. you go to the - of being a woman two that is what we heard the most. you go to the doctor| heard the most. you go to the doctor and you tell them you cannot get out of bed and you are being set all the time and you can't keep any food down and you can't go to school or work, the pain is too bad, and the excuse we hear, myself growing up, on three different occasions, that is just the way it is, the joys of being a woman, that is what is said. manjit gill, have you had that? you are being emotional, hysterical, is at your time of the month? absolutely, we do not know not enough — absolutely, we do not know not enough about menstruation as women and girls. _ enough about menstruation as women and girls, but also as men. it takes up and girls, but also as men. it takes upto— and girls, but also as men. it takes uptoten— and girls, but also as men. it takes up to ten years to get diagnosed with a _ up to ten years to get diagnosed with a period disorder in this country _ with a period disorder in this country i_ with a period disorder in this country. i also remember hearing gps -et country. i also remember hearing gps get 15_ country. i also remember hearing gps get 15 minutes of training around menstruation. we have to know everything about your cycle before you go _ everything about your cycle before you go to — everything about your cycle before you go to a gp and you have to have all that— you go to a gp and you have to have all that data. — you go to a gp and you have to have all that data, how many times you bleed. _ all that data, how many times you bleed. how— all that data, how many times you bleed, how often, if it is painful, and period — bleed, how often, if it is painful, and period pain is not supposed to stop you _ and period pain is not supposed to stop you living your day—to—day life. _ stop you living your day—to—day life. and — stop you living your day—to—day life. and if— stop you living your day—to—day life, and if it is, there's something wrong and you need to it checked _ something wrong and you need to it checked. , ., , ., , ~ , checked. here is a text, please keep m identi checked. here is a text, please keep my identity anonymous, _ checked. here is a text, please keep my identity anonymous, with - checked. here is a text, please keep| my identity anonymous, with regards to the topic today, my daughter who has just left secondary school and they have stopped pupils going to they have stopped pupils going to the bathroom, another discussion for another time, the bathroom, another discussion for anothertime, i had to the bathroom, another discussion for another time, i had to go and see her gp to get a medical letter so she could get a toilet pass to go during lessons. this is not only at the school, it is happening all over. can you imagine if you have just started your period as a young girl? this is traumatic! never mind having to put your hand up in class to ask to go to the bathroom. every day is a school day. what you make of that? it day is a school day. what you make of that? , ., ., ., of that? it is not unheard of. i went through _ of that? it is not unheard of. i went through school - of that? it is not unheard of. i went through school not - of that? it is not unheard of. i | went through school not being of that? it is not unheard of. i - went through school not being able to access the toilets and i know some of my teachers, it was very much, i need to go to the toilet, and it was usually the male teachers, the girls can go. as you said, this is a whole other discussion in itself, when you look at period dignity which is the term is thrown around so much across the uk, there is nothing dignified about not being able to have access to products, not having access to the toilet when you need it, and having toilet when you need it, and having to possibly sit in your own blood for what could be up to two hours at a time before you have a break during the school day. this a time before you have a break during the school day.- a time before you have a break during the school day. this is what is so important — during the school day. this is what is so important to _ during the school day. this is what is so important to hear. _ during the school day. this is what is so important to hear. cathy - during the school day. this is what is so important to hear. cathy in l is so important to hear. cathy in berwick—upon—tweed, khloe in cambridge, iam berwick—upon—tweed, khloe in cambridge, i am so pleased to hear from both of you. thank you for getting in touch. as ever, you guys make this show. it is brilliant to have the experts here, do we take it seriously enough in this country? menstruation? periods? i seriously enough in this country? menstruation? periods?- menstruation? periods? i have a difficult experience _ menstruation? periods? i have a difficult experience anyway, - menstruation? periods? i have a difficult experience anyway, but| menstruation? periods? i have a| difficult experience anyway, but i have spoken to my children about it since they were old enough to understand what happens. they are very lucky, my children go to a wonderful school, they are 12 years old and 14 years old, they are both boys, they have a great set of friends, and they are extremely sympathetic and knowledgeable about it, they are told about it, when i am struggling, i get sickness, i have days of work, and i struggle since i was 13 years old. whenever they see it, they know, are you 0k? do you need pain relief? they are sympathetic that we have a change in mood, it has helped him warned and make friendships with girls at school because they understand it and they don't shy away from it. that has come from the school as well. the school has a very positive attitude to teaching boys especially about periods. hagar attitude to teaching boys especially about periods-— about periods. how does that compared _ about periods. how does that compared to _ about periods. how does that compared to when _ about periods. how does that compared to when you - about periods. how does that compared to when you were i about periods. how does that i compared to when you were 13? horrible! i used to be sick and faint with the pain. it took me a long time until i was about 30 to be diagnosed with the mdb. —— matt the mdb. very heavy bleeding. it affects you mentally as well and you have very severe pmt. which is normal pmt which is bad enough, pmdb can be very severe. it can affect you for your whole life. being diagnosed and getting support comes late in life in my experience. watching people like my nieces and my godchildren going through it, i think it has not improved massively. but i think as well women, mums, dads, need to talk to their children and say if you are being sick or you're a struggling and you cannot get to school on your job, you need to get some help and sometimes you have to push at the doctor to be referred to consultant and once you get to see the consultant, things generally change quickly. but it is getting taken seriously at the gp and saying it is not because i am a teenager. i know this is heavy, when you know you have an excessively heavy period, you have other physical symptoms, and mental symptoms as well and they need to be addressed equally. i am need to be addressed equally. i am askin: the need to be addressed equally. i am asking the questions that need to be asked, i may have asked these questions before in my own home and received answers. you mention pmt, premenstrual tension, what is that like? how does it feel? i premenstrual tension, what is that like? how does it feel?— like? how does it feel? i feel like the incredible _ like? how does it feel? i feel like the incredible hulk. _ like? how does it feel? i feel like the incredible hulk. it _ like? how does it feel? i feel like the incredible hulk. it can - the incredible hulk. it can affect me in different ways from being mild, eating ravenously the day before, to for two weeks, i would have two weeks of build—up where i would be very angry, very emotional, and argumentative because everything felt very sensitive in terms of what people were saying. i felt very anxious about things as well. my worst point, when i was in my 20s and 30s, i would feel like i had maybe one or two weeks a month people would say was normal and the pain that i would have was excessive. i have had two children, i went into labour, the contractions were just like period i went into labour, the contractions werejust like period pain to me. and that is when i realised that it was not normal. people said to me thatis was not normal. people said to me that is not normal. i'm really hopeful that things have changed, things are moving, and more awareness makes young women more able to be more comfortable to say to people even to the french are boys, i am really feeling awful today. ifeel very upset. i am going today. ifeel very upset. i am going to be more sensitive than any other time. 0k, fine, they will start to recognise it. if time. ok, fine, they will start to recognise it— time. 0k, fine, they will start to recognise it— recognise it. if you are on a period. _ recognise it. if you are on a period. the _ recognise it. if you are on a period, the worse - recognise it. if you are on a period, the worse thing - recognise it. if you are on a period, the worse thing is, | recognise it. if you are on a . period, the worse thing is, you know, i've done in the past, and we've all done it, i know, it is part of the learning thing, if you are a bit tense and a bit shouted and i are you your period? that is the worst thing! _ and i are you your period? that is the worst thing! it _ and i are you your period? that is the worst thing! it is _ and i are you your period? that is the worst thing! it is the - and i are you your period? that is the worst thing! it is the worst. the worst thing! it is the worst thing when people say that when you're not, because it totally makes you're not, because it totally makes you feel unjustified in having a reaction, actually, may be quite justified. i get that a lot. my husband knew from very early or not to say that. 50 husband knew from very early or not to say that-— to say that. so did i. believe you me. in to say that. so did i. believe you me- in the _ to say that. so did i. believe you me. in the past, _ to say that. so did i. believe you me. in the past, it _ to say that. so did i. believe you me. in the past, it slips - to say that. so did i. believe you me. in the past, it slips out, - to say that. so did i. believe you me. in the past, it slips out, i i me. in the past, it slips out, i want to apologise on behalf of the males of the nation. welcome, cathy. i started my period at 12, i was not diagnosed — i started my period at 12, i was not diagnosed with ngo mix uses until i was 30 _ diagnosed with ngo mix uses until i was 30. from 12 until 30 two weeks out of— was 30. from 12 until 30 two weeks out of every— was 30. from 12 until 30 two weeks out of every month, half of every month, _ out of every month, half of every month, i— out of every month, half of every month, i was not well and the lead up month, i was not well and the lead up to— month, i was not well and the lead up to the _ month, i was not well and the lead up to the period, at lasted a week, and then— up to the period, at lasted a week, and then there was the recovering afterwards. i had heavy bleeding which _ afterwards. i had heavy bleeding which i _ afterwards. i had heavy bleeding which i no — afterwards. i had heavy bleeding which i no longer referred to heavy bleeding. — which i no longer referred to heavy bleeding, it was haemorrhaging, in terms _ bleeding, it was haemorrhaging, in terms of— bleeding, it was haemorrhaging, in terms of the period products, i ended — terms of the period products, i ended up— terms of the period products, i ended up using the highest level super— ended up using the highest level super plus tampons plus period pads and that— super plus tampons plus period pads and that was not enough and there was excess — and that was not enough and there was excess bleeding. i had pain, back— was excess bleeding. i had pain, back pain, — was excess bleeding. i had pain, back pain, vomiting. i had premenstrual tension. that led to depression because it was so awful. during _ depression because it was so awful. during the _ depression because it was so awful. during the school time, i under achieved — during the school time, i under achieved because i was not well half of the _ achieved because i was not well half of the time. in sixth form i had 100 days of— of the time. in sixth form i had 100 days of sick — of the time. in sixth form i had 100 days of sick. they thought i was being _ days of sick. they thought i was being hysterical because i couldn't talk about— being hysterical because i couldn't talk about it even though i was in etoro— talk about it even though i was in etoro school and a grammar school which _ etoro school and a grammar school which really — etoro school and a grammar school which really wanted us all to achieve _ which really wanted us all to achieve. —— a girls school. there was _ achieve. —— a girls school. there was no _ achieve. —— a girls school. there was no conversation about how we were _ was no conversation about how we were coping with our periods. they were _ were coping with our periods. they were all— were coping with our periods. they were all girls, but the girls who had ordinary periods were the least tolerant— had ordinary periods were the least tolerant because they thought one was being hysterical. 100 days of sick, _ was being hysterical. 100 days of sick, under— was being hysterical. 100 days of sick, underachieved in my was being hysterical. 100 days of sick, under achieved in my a—levels, managed _ sick, under achieved in my a—levels, managed to— sick, under achieved in my a—levels, managed to get to university, underachieved at university for the same _ underachieved at university for the same reason, got into a career, and that carried — same reason, got into a career, and that carried on through my 20s, i -ot that carried on through my 20s, i got very— that carried on through my 20s, i got very sick, i went to the doctor, all through— got very sick, i went to the doctor, all through my teens and 20s, they could _ all through my teens and 20s, they could not— all through my teens and 20s, they could not diagnose it, they gave me increasingly strong drugs for the pain _ increasingly strong drugs for the pain not — increasingly strong drugs for the pain. not diagnosing the illness. even _ pain. not diagnosing the illness. even strong painkillers weren't enough — even strong painkillers weren't enough and i went to a conference on endometriosis, after i had been diagnosed about endometriosis, full of women, — diagnosed about endometriosis, full of women, the panel was turned doctors — of women, the panel was turned doctors and consultants, and i think one or— doctors and consultants, and i think one or two — doctors and consultants, and i think one or two of them were women and we came to _ one or two of them were women and we came to the _ one or two of them were women and we came to the conclusion that that was one of— came to the conclusion that that was one of the _ came to the conclusion that that was one of the failings and the reason why endometriosis was not being diagnosed. 40 years later, i do not think— diagnosed. 40 years later, i do not think medical development, although there was— think medical development, although there was something in the news yesterday— there was something in the news yesterday about potential understanding of endometriosis, 30, 40 years— understanding of endometriosis, 30, 40 years later, i do not think we have _ 40 years later, i do not think we have moved on and i think there is a huge _ have moved on and i think there is a huge taboo— have moved on and i think there is a huge taboo around periods. because it is to _ huge taboo around periods. because it is to do _ huge taboo around periods. because it is to do with the patriarchal society, — it is to do with the patriarchal society, '— it is to do with the patriarchal society, i am it is to do with the patriarchal society, lam really it is to do with the patriarchal society, i am really impressed that spain _ society, i am really impressed that spain has — society, i am really impressed that spain has moved forward because they are way— spain has moved forward because they are way behind on feminism in a lot of ways, _ are way behind on feminism in a lot of ways, but— are way behind on feminism in a lot of ways, but they have now included period _ of ways, but they have now included period leave it's brilliant. 0ne of ways, but they have now included period leave it's brilliant. one of my most — period leave it's brilliant. one of my most important points i would like to— my most important points i would like to make is that i felt when i had endometriosis that i was disabled because i was ill half of the month and couldn't go to work. i had to— the month and couldn't go to work. i had to work— the month and couldn't go to work. i had to work around it. i think endometriosis and other severe menstrual disorders should be recognised as disability so that reasonable adjustments can be made at work _ reasonable adjustments can be made at work. that's my summary so far. that _ at work. that's my summary so far. that is _ at work. that's my summary so far. that is so _ at work. that's my summary so far. that is so interesting. the fact that you said there were 11 doctors and consultants one of whom was a woman. that's oh so much, doesn't it? annie in birmingham, good morning. it? annie in birmingham, good mornint. it? annie in birmingham, good mornin., ., it? annie in birmingham, good mornint. ., �* morning. good morning. i'm calling from birmingham. _ morning. good morning. i'm calling from birmingham. the _ morning. good morning. i'm calling from birmingham. the topic - morning. good morning. i'm calling from birmingham. the topic today i morning. good morning. i'm calling| from birmingham. the topic today is very interesting and important. generally for young adult girls who are stepping into adulthood. it's something, period is something we don't talk much about. it is still taboo generally. talking about it at work, at school, i sympathise, taboo generally. talking about it at work, at school, isympathise, my daughter, she got into that period, she didn't have that much support at school, and it was very embarrassing, i educated her, and we talk about one day it is going to happen to you, but the support she got from her peers, the teacher could not come forward and she got told off in front of everyone. that's awful!— told off in front of everyone. that's awful! yes, it was really bad. it that's awful! yes, it was really bad- it was _ that's awful! yes, it was really bad. it was really _ that's awful! yes, it was really bad. it was really awful - that's awful! yes, it was really - bad. it was really awful experience. i had to be called from home. i had to go and pick her up at school because literally she couldn't get out of the toilet. this topic is very important to educate and to be inclusive support between boys and girls to talk about, you know, girls are going to experience that situation in their lifetime. and the should not be something where you need to feel embarrassed, like you've done something wrong. i support the lady who came before me, she was talking about workplaces. everybody has a different experience. some people can have much more painful periods and some people don't. tell]! much more painful periods and some people don't-— people don't. tell me about your dau~hter, people don't. tell me about your daughter. how — people don't. tell me about your daughter, how did _ people don't. tell me about your daughter, how did that _ people don't. tell me about your daughter, how did that affect - people don't. tell me about your i daughter, how did that affect her? how did she feel that that happened a few it how did she feel that that happened a fe . . how did she feel that that happened a fe ., , , ., , a few it was terrible. literally, i had to calm _ a few it was terrible. literally, i had to calm her— a few it was terrible. literally, i had to calm her down, - a few it was terrible. literally, i had to calm her down, to - a few it was terrible. literally, i i had to calm her down, to explain a few it was terrible. literally, i - had to calm her down, to explain to her, she did something wrong is how she felt, she didn't want to go back to school. ijust had to find a way where i explain to her, you know, maybe it was just a lack of knowledge and a lack of education or preparation for the school itself rather than the whole class. that was not a good experience for her. ? this is such an important call. brilliant stuff, but you, annie, have crystallised an issue that is coming in on the text, still at schools now, access to toilets, going to the toilet, when you are having your period. i would like to bring manjit gill back on this one, speak to annie about this, speak to all of us about this. shocking! it all of us about this. shocking! it is the reality, in order to deliver any type — is the reality, in order to deliver any type of— is the reality, in order to deliver any type of education, you have got to be _ any type of education, you have got to be able _ any type of education, you have got to be able to deliver it so the person— to be able to deliver it so the person receiving the education does not get _ person receiving the education does not get hang—ups, isn't misinformed. the problem — not get hang—ups, isn't misinformed. the problem we have in schools still. _ the problem we have in schools still. is — the problem we have in schools still. is the _ the problem we have in schools still, is the teachers have their own— still, is the teachers have their own shame, they haven't been taught how to _ own shame, they haven't been taught how to handle the shame that they have but— how to handle the shame that they have but also to make sure they do not pass _ have but also to make sure they do not pass it — have but also to make sure they do not pass it on to, the word period poverty. — not pass it on to, the word period poverty, poverty around periods, it adds further stigma to the conversation so we do not use it. we do not _ conversation so we do not use it. we do not use _ conversation so we do not use it. we do not use the word sanitary because sanitary— do not use the word sanitary because sanitary suggest periods are dirty, we don't _ sanitary suggest periods are dirty, we don't use the word hygiene. language — we don't use the word hygiene. language is really important. there are so— language is really important. there are so many— language is really important. there are so many facets to menstruation, it is not— are so many facets to menstruation, it is not only— are so many facets to menstruation, it is not only that is that you are bleeding. — it is not only that is that you are bleeding, it is the rest of the month. — bleeding, it is the rest of the month, the cycle, we should know where _ month, the cycle, we should know where we — month, the cycle, we should know where we are in our cycle so we can live the _ where we are in our cycle so we can live the best — where we are in our cycle so we can live the best of our lives. the food that we _ live the best of our lives. the food that we eat. — live the best of our lives. the food that we eat, the products that are available. — that we eat, the products that are available, sometimes, you'll find that some — available, sometimes, you'll find that some girls will start on one type of— that some girls will start on one type of product and will use it for the rest — type of product and will use it for the rest of— type of product and will use it for the rest of their lives, whereas in order— the rest of their lives, whereas in order to — the rest of their lives, whereas in order to have a period that is managed _ order to have a period that is managed well, there is a selection of products you can use. when we first started, we were told that one of the _ first started, we were told that one of the biggest problems that women tell them _ of the biggest problems that women tell them that they have is the use the wrong — tell them that they have is the use the wrong tampon in their cycle. they— the wrong tampon in their cycle. they might buy a pack of tampons, and will— they might buy a pack of tampons, and will use — they might buy a pack of tampons, and will use the same one every day when _ and will use the same one every day when in _ and will use the same one every day when in fact. — and will use the same one every day when in fact, when it is not a heavy day. _ when in fact, when it is not a heavy day. you _ when in fact, when it is not a heavy day, you need to use a different type _ day, you need to use a different type of— day, you need to use a different type of product. so many things that add to— type of product. so many things that add to the _ type of product. so many things that add to the problems we go through. the same _ add to the problems we go through. the same as doctors, they are not aware. _ the same as doctors, they are not aware. they— the same as doctors, they are not aware, they have not been taught and they haven't _ aware, they have not been taught and they haven't been trained. ? also also. _ they haven't been trained. ? also also, people bring their own shame and attitudes of stigmatising. i am going to come to some takes in some second. we have some breaking news, officials in the us state of hawaii now say 36 people have been killed by wildfires on the island, more than 200 buildings on the island including much of the historic town on the island have been destroyed. 36 people killed by wildfires in hawaii. more on this on the bbc news website and throughout the day and of course on radio 5 live on bbc sounds. we are talking about attitudes to menstruation and i have got some great people to do that. some great takes, toilet breaks at school, as i said. a major issue. teachers stopping children going to the toilet during lessons. it is awful for young the toilet during lessons. it is awfulfor young girls the toilet during lessons. it is awful for young girls experiencing this. and this one, remaining anonymous, that's fine, i have taught in england for 12 years at four different schools, i am a science teacher, and each school we have taught reproduction in year seven, lessons on puberty, it is part of the national curriculum, the menstrual cycle as part of the gcse curriculum, hormones, typing is of the menstrual cycle, every gcse student i have taught over 12 years, we teach this rigorously. it's to be hoped that is applied ubiquitously but one wonders. please keep my identity anonymous, with regards to the topic today, my daughter has just left secondary school and they have stopped pupils going to the bathroom. and another one saying that. this one, my work involves me going to different businesses every day and i have been really impressed in the last year that so many of the toilets, whether they are women's or gender neutral, have baskets of sanitary products for emergency situations. it's not just poverty this provides for, sometimes you are caught by surprise. in the past this means frantically rolling up toilet roll to put into your underwear and forever checking your chair when you stand up just forever checking your chair when you stand upjust in case. now businesses seem to be taking it seriously and it makes such a difference. everyone has experienced this panic. i actually feel a bit emotional writing this because i have never spoken about it. and that for me says it all. i am 42 but i really do feel that change is happening. jen in newcastle, i cannot thank you enough for that text, talking about it for the first time. for many people, that will resonate, listening and watching. you have done a huge favour by sending it into us. the question you're asking this morning, in the uk right here and now, 2023, do we take periods seriously? more to come. politicians will question senior police officers in northern ireland today after a major data breach saw the details of thousands of officers made public by mistake. it's feared that the information could be used by dissident republicans to plot new attacks on the police. a search and rescue mission is continuing in hawaii where at least 36 people have been killed in wildfires. the tourist town of lahaina on the island of maui has been badly hit. halifax is set to sharply cut rates on some of its fixed mortgage deals, potentially easing pressure on some homeowners. the uk's biggest mortgage lender will reduce rates by up to 0.71% points from tomorrow with a five—year fixed deal priced at 5.39% from 6.10%. marks and spencer has joined forces with mps and environmental groups to call on the government to remove the 20% vat on period underwear. the open letter asks for the tax on the products to be lifted in the upcoming autumn statement. jonathan mckeith has your sport. anthonyjoshua says boxing "clearly has a problem" with doping after dillian whyte failed a voluntary drugs test and was pulled out of saturday's all—british heavyweight contest. joshua will instead fight robert helenius at london's o2 arena, with the 39—year—old finn taking the fight at just a week's notice. captainjamie ritchie is to return to the scotland team for the third of their rugby world cup warm—up games against france. the flanker is back from injury in one of six changes for this weekend's match in st etienne. rangers will take a 2—1 lead into next week's champions league qualifying 2nd leg against swiss side servette. and the final golf major of the year — the women's open — is underway at walton heath in surrey. commentary right now on 5 sports extra. today we are looking at the state of british politics, asking if technology is ruining football. are we too obsessed with our phones. hora we too obsessed with our phones. how hot for the planet to get? and - we too obsessed with our phones. how hot for the planet to get? and we - hot for the planet to get? and we will explain _ hot for the planet to get? and we will explain how _ hot for the planet to get? and we will explain how prices _ hot for the planet to get? and we will explain how prices keep - hot for the planet to get? and we | will explain how prices keep going up will explain how prices keep going up and up. stand will explain how prices keep going u- and u. . , will explain how prices keep going u- andu-.�* will explain how prices keep going u- and u. . , will explain how prices keep going u-nandu. up and up. and space has its own smell. up and up. and space has its own smell- what _ up and up. and space has its own smell. what of? _ up and up. and space has its own smell. what of? the _ up and up. and space has its own smell. what of? the world - up and up. and space has its own smell. what of? the world is - up and up. and space has its own smell. what of? the world is fast movin: smell. what of? the world is fast moving and _ smell. what of? the world is fast moving and can _ smell. what of? the world is fast moving and can be _ smell. what of? the world is fast moving and can be confusing. - smell. what of? the world is fast moving and can be confusing. so| moving and can be confusing. so let's— moving and can be confusing. so let's talk— moving and can be confusing. so let's talk about it. thank you so much for getting in touch. we are asking the question, do we take periods seriously in this country? at ten o'clock, join us for this one. a very important political debate. there have been called this morning, doctor helen pankhurst, the great—granddaughter of emmeline pam pankhurst, the suffragette, saying it's time the rest of the uk followed scotland boss might lead and made sure 16 and 17—year—olds were able to vote. why not? 08085 909693, 85058. that's coming up at ten o'clock. molly fenton is still with us,, ivy in suffolk, sarah in glasgow and best, not her real name, in shropshire, all coming up. doctor, you are listening. amazing calls and messages. it will come as absolutely no surprise to you as the author of the knowledge, your guide to female health from menstruation to the menopause. always good to have your wise words on the programme. it says so much, what we have heard so far. , and i think manjit gill hit the nail on the head when she said the terminology is wrapped in so much shame, sanitary, the idea you are clean, the idea you might be dirty. this is a basic human thing for women and girls from the age of ten onwards. 0n women and girls from the age of ten onwards. on a monthly cycle. it is normal female biology, onwards. on a monthly cycle. it is normalfemale biology, it happens up until the age of maybe 52. the majority of women and girls�* lives is dictated by this cyclical biological change of having a monthly bleed. however, it affects different women and girls differently. sometimes you can get pain, sometimes heaviness, sometimes there�*s an underlying reason for that. but it seems we don�*t have the lexicon the conversations around it, and getting men part of it, because they should definitely be part of it, dad�*s, employees, employers, and drxand it, dad�*s, employees, employers, and dr xand governments will stop if the woman is well, the household is well stop if the household is well the economy thrives. is stop if the household is well the economy thrives.— stop if the household is well the economy thrives. is this down to misogyny. _ economy thrives. is this down to misogyny. much _ economy thrives. is this down to misogyny, much of— economy thrives. is this down to misogyny, much of this? - economy thrives. is this down to misogyny, much of this? i - economy thrives. is this down to misogyny, much of this? i think| economy thrives. is this down to i misogyny, much of this? i think it is, misogyny, much of this? ithink it is, unfortunately. _ misogyny, much of this? i think it is, unfortunately. it's— misogyny, much of this? i think it is, unfortunately. it's down - misogyny, much of this? i think it is, unfortunately. it's down to - is, unfortunately. it�*s down to patriarchy and also sometimes down to internalised misogyny. i say that women will downplay other women�*s symptoms by saying, i don�*t have it that bad, so why are you complaining? be quiet about it. in my culture there is a whole concept about things being under the rail because it is seen as more respectful. there is a phrase translated from punjabi. it can perpetuate stigma and taboo further. it also means that things are not learnt. the knowledge of managing heavy periods or getting help early enough or having a condition like endometriosisjust enough or having a condition like endometriosis just doesn�*t happen. we can speak to beth in shropshire, not her real name, just to remind beth that she is best! 0n not her real name, just to remind beth that she is best! on this issue of misogyny and attitudes, what would you like to say? i am would you like to say? i am currently — would you like to say? i am currently on _ would you like to say? i am currently on sick _ would you like to say? i am currently on sick leave, - would you like to say? i am j currently on sick leave, this would you like to say? i am i currently on sick leave, this is would you like to say? i am - currently on sick leave, this is my third _ currently on sick leave, this is my third week— currently on sick leave, this is my third week now. i have never had any long—standing menstrual issues. i have _ long—standing menstrual issues. i have had — long—standing menstrual issues. i have had children. but i changed contraception. it came to the end of the term _ contraception. it came to the end of the term of— contraception. it came to the end of the term of the current one i am on. my doctor— the term of the current one i am on. my doctor and the nhs have been outstanding, i can't knock them, but telling _ outstanding, i can't knock them, but telling my— outstanding, i can't knock them, but telling my workplace was the hardest thin- telling my workplace was the hardest thing i_ telling my workplace was the hardest thing i have ever had to do. it is the question that come with it, why, what you _ the question that come with it, why, what you mean, a period? obviously it is very— what you mean, a period? obviously it is very natural but it is an embarrassing topic. i work in a very male—dominated industry so having the conversation with a gentleman, i don't _ the conversation with a gentleman, i don't want _ the conversation with a gentleman, i don't want to say it's uncomfortable on my— don't want to say it's uncomfortable on my behalf, but more on their behalf. — on my behalf, but more on their behalf. if— on my behalf, but more on their behalf, if that makes sense. obviously if you want to self certify — obviously if you want to self certify for periods for a couple of days _ certify for periods for a couple of days then — certify for periods for a couple of days then you don't get any sick pay for your— days then you don't get any sick pay for your first — days then you don't get any sick pay for your first week, i think it is, with— for your first week, i think it is, with your— for your first week, i think it is, with your first week, which is how lon- with your first week, which is how long a _ with your first week, which is how long a normal period lasts. women have time — long a normal period lasts. women have time off for babies, but now they have — have time off for babies, but now they have time off for periods, that's— they have time off for periods, that's the _ they have time off for periods, that's the sexist attitude i come up with in— that's the sexist attitude i come up with in the — that's the sexist attitude i come up with in the workplace. the}r that's the sexist attitude i come up with in the workplace.— with in the workplace. they must have sisters _ with in the workplace. they must have sisters and _ with in the workplace. they must have sisters and mothers - with in the workplace. they must have sisters and mothers will. with in the workplace. they mustl have sisters and mothers will stop what�*s going on? you have sisters and mothers will stop what's going on?— what's going on? you would think that, but what's going on? you would think that. but they _ what's going on? you would think that, but they ask, _ what's going on? you would think that, but they ask, why _ what's going on? you would think that, but they ask, why would - what's going on? you would think that, but they ask, why would a l that, but they ask, why would a woman— that, but they ask, why would a woman want a week off every month because _ woman want a week off every month because of— woman want a week off every month because of something she naturally .oes because of something she naturally goes through her whole life. i have been _ goes through her whole life. i have been very— goes through her whole life. i have been very lucky in my lifetime that i been very lucky in my lifetime that i have _ been very lucky in my lifetime that i have never had time off until recently— i have never had time off until recently but i know women in the workplace — recently but i know women in the workplace that do suffer horrendously and its that when you come _ horrendously and its that when you come back— horrendously and its that when you come back from the toilet, has anyone — come back from the toilet, has anyone got anything? can i have a tampon? — anyone got anything? can i have a tampon? it's an awkward and embarrassing situation for women. you going — embarrassing situation for women. you going to public toilets and there — you going to public toilets and there is— you going to public toilets and there is contraception readily available to get your hands on but getting _ available to get your hands on but getting hold of a sanitary product is a totally different ball game. let me — is a totally different ball game. let me bring sarah in, in glasgow, not her real name, on that point. hello. ., . ,, not her real name, on that point. hello._ find. - not her real name, on that point. hello._ find. and i not her real name, on that point. i hello._ find. and you hello. how are you? find. and you are originally _ hello. how are you? find. and you are originally from _ hello. how are you? find. and you are originally from brazil. - hello. how are you? find. and you are originally from brazil. what - hello. how are you? find. and you are originally from brazil. what do | are originally from brazil. what do you think about attitudes in britain? i you think about attitudes in britain? . . . . you think about attitudes in britain? ., , , , , britain? i am surprised with these calls. i britain? i am surprised with these calls- l have _ britain? i am surprised with these calls- l have a _ britain? i am surprised with these calls. i have a daughter _ britain? i am surprised with these calls. i have a daughter who - britain? i am surprised with these calls. i have a daughter who is - calls. i have a daughter who is almost nine. i�*m getting worried about her, honestly. i really sense this secrecy about periods and sexuality which is way more open in brazil. i got my period when i was really young, i was ten, and i got a lot of help from grown—ups and teachers and people around me who were really kind. i got a lot of support in sexual classes and everything, but we got the message across. i sense that children don�*t have any of this around here. i don�*t know how i would have dealt with my own issues without the support i had. yeah, that�*s a worry. why is that? different kinds of societies, maybe family. family is very strong in brazil, isn�*t it? i very strong in brazil, isn't it? i think it is. but it was friends who were also really strong. extended famil as were also really strong. extended family as well _ were also really strong. extended family as well is _ were also really strong. extended family as well is a _ were also really strong. extended family as well is a very _ were also really strong. extended family as well is a very firm - were also really strong. extended family as well is a very firm and i family as well is a very firm and strong structure. maybe i�*m talking through my backside, i don�*t know. i through my backside, i don't know. i think so, but there is only so much family can do because when you go around with your friends and peers, it gets taboo, you don�*t want to talk about that if you feel you are not a face. then it becomes a problem. it is so hard to be a woman in this world. if you can�*t talk about simple issues like having a period with your own friends, that would be so hard on her. so period with your own friends, that would be so hard on her.- period with your own friends, that would be so hard on her. so hard to be a woman — would be so hard on her. so hard to be a woman in _ would be so hard on her. so hard to be a woman in this _ would be so hard on her. so hard to be a woman in this world. _ would be so hard on her. so hard to be a woman in this world. it - would be so hard on her. so hard to be a woman in this world. it is - would be so hard on her. so hard to be a woman in this world. it is so i be a woman in this world. it is so difficult. be a woman in this world. it is so difficult- we _ be a woman in this world. it is so difficult. we face _ be a woman in this world. it is so difficult. we face so _ be a woman in this world. it is so difficult. we face so many - be a woman in this world. it is so | difficult. we face so many battles on a daily basis, everything is a struggle. and, on, if we can�*t talk about our own periods, how will that work? �* . about our own periods, how will that work? �* , _, about our own periods, how will that work? �* , . ,, about our own periods, how will that work? �* , . ~' | work? best, come back in here? i completely _ work? best, come back in here? i completely agree. _ work? best, come back in here? i completely agree. sexuality - work? best, come back in here? i completely agree. sexuality and i completely agree. sexuality and periods — completely agree. sexuality and periods and things, is a british person— periods and things, is a british person 80 _ periods and things, is a british person 80 is a very taboo subject to talk about — person 80 is a very taboo subject to talk about. it's the giggling and you see — talk about. it's the giggling and you see it— talk about. it's the giggling and you see it quite regular. i have a daughter— you see it quite regular. i have a daughter who was a teenager and she is coming _ daughter who was a teenager and she is coming to— daughter who was a teenager and she is coming to puberty. i'm very, very open _ is coming to puberty. i'm very, very open in— is coming to puberty. i'm very, very open in that— is coming to puberty. i'm very, very open in that aspect stop but i know a lot of— open in that aspect stop but i know a lot of people who wouldn't be because — a lot of people who wouldn't be because it is seen as a taboo subject _ because it is seen as a taboo subject. as awful as it sounds, that's— subject. as awful as it sounds, that's an — subject. as awful as it sounds, that's an ignorance on our behalf. it that's an ignorance on our behalf. it isn't _ that's an ignorance on our behalf. it isn't something you talk about openly. — it isn't something you talk about openly, ratherthan it isn't something you talk about openly, rather than not openly, if that makes— openly, rather than not openly, if that makes sense.— openly, rather than not openly, if that makes sense. what was it like for ou that makes sense. what was it like for you when _ that makes sense. what was it like for you when you — that makes sense. what was it like for you when you were... - that makes sense. what was it like for you when you were... as - that makes sense. what was it like for you when you were... as sarah | for you when you were... as sarah said, she was 11, when you were 11, 12, 13, what was it like for you? in a school setting i wouldn't have said a _ a school setting i wouldn't have said a word to a teacher or friend or anything — said a word to a teacher or friend or anything like that. my parents were _ or anything like that. my parents were always really open in all aspects — were always really open in all aspects of life. i am completely the samei _ aspects of life. i am completely the same. it— aspects of life. i am completely the same. it is— aspects of life. i am completely the same, it is howl aspects of life. i am completely the same, it is how i have been brought up. same, it is how i have been brought up but— same, it is how i have been brought up but i_ same, it is how i have been brought up but i can — same, it is how i have been brought up. but i can make comments to friends _ up. but i can make comments to friends and — up. but i can make comments to friends and people in the workplace, i friends and people in the workplace, iwouldn't _ friends and people in the workplace, i wouldn't think twice about handing over a _ i wouldn't think twice about handing over a sanitary product in public, but i _ over a sanitary product in public, but i know— over a sanitary product in public, but i know there are a lot of people who would — but i know there are a lot of people who would rather use toilet roll and not say _ who would rather use toilet roll and not say a _ who would rather use toilet roll and not say a word and keep it to themselves and openly talk about it with it _ themselves and openly talk about it with it being such a taboo subject. i with it being such a taboo subject. i find _ with it being such a taboo subject. i find that— with it being such a taboo subject. i find that so alien. and in school mostly, that you can�*t have a proper or sincere conversation with a teacher, oranotherwoman. i�*m teacher, or another woman. i�*m having teacher, oranotherwoman. i�*m having a period, help me out. it�*s not something we can relate... essen not something we can relate... even if it was a male? _ not something we can relate... even if it was a male? to _ not something we can relate... even if it was a male? to approach and say. _ if it was a male? to approach and say. i— if it was a male? to approach and say. i need — if it was a male? to approach and say, i need help, and not feel embarrassed. to be part of it. my embarrassed. to be part of it. daughter will embarrassed. to be part of it. iji daughter will know embarrassed. to be part of it. til: daughter will know because embarrassed. to be part of it. ij�*ii: daughter will know because i embarrassed. to be part of it. ii1: daughter will know because i talk to her about these issues. but i feel she is insecure about a lot of stuff that i wasn�*t when i was her age. exactly. i know there�*s a lot of... exactly. i know there's a lot of... my child's— exactly. i know there's a lot of... my child's school has unisex toilets now. _ my child's school has unisex toilets now. there — my child's school has unisex toilets now, there is no girls and boys. is that why— now, there is no girls and boys. is that why they don't have tampons readily— that why they don't have tampons readily available? is it something that men— readily available? is it something that men are embarrassed about? i think— that men are embarrassed about? i think being — that men are embarrassed about? i think being a female and having a conversation with a gentleman about her period _ conversation with a gentleman about her period is a lot more embarrassing on their behalf than it would _ embarrassing on their behalf than it would be _ embarrassing on their behalf than it would be on my end, if that makes sense _ would be on my end, if that makes sense. �* , ., �* , , sense. but it shouldn't be. it is only natural. _ sense. but it shouldn't be. it is only natural. it _ sense. but it shouldn't be. it is only natural. it is _ sense. but it shouldn't be. it is only natural. it is part - sense. but it shouldn't be. it is only natural. it is part of- sense. but it shouldn't be. it is only natural. it is part of the i sense. but it shouldn't be. it is i only natural. it is part of the body growing up. again, it is so difficult to be a woman. girls are growing up with another layer of difficulty that shouldn�*t be there. i agree 100%. let difficulty that shouldn't be there. i agree 100%— difficulty that shouldn't be there. i agree 10096. let me bring leslie in. don't i agree 10096. let me bring leslie in- don't go _ i agree 10096. let me bring leslie in. don't go anywhere, _ i agree 10096. let me bring leslie in. don't go anywhere, sarah - i agree 10096. let me bring leslie in. don't go anywhere, sarah and| in. don�*t go anywhere, sarah and beth. leslie, good morning. goad beth. leslie, good morning. good mornint. beth. leslie, good morning. good morning- you _ beth. leslie, good morning. good morning. you have _ beth. leslie, good morning. good morning. you have heard - beth. leslie, good morning. good morning. you have heard from i beth. leslie, good morning. good i morning. you have heard from sarah and beth. morning. you have heard from sarah and beth- we _ morning. you have heard from sarah and beth. we want _ morning. you have heard from sarah and beth. we want to _ morning. you have heard from sarah and beth. we want to hear— morning. you have heard from sarah and beth. we want to hear from - morning. you have heard from sarah| and beth. we want to hear from you, leslie. what would you like to say? i had a female member of staff suffering — i had a female member of staff suffering with— i had a female member of staff suffering with a _ i had a female member of staff suffering with a period. - i had a female member of staff suffering with a period. she - i had a female member of staffi suffering with a period. she had i had a female member of staff- suffering with a period. she had two weeks _ suffering with a period. she had two weeks of— suffering with a period. she had two weeks of pain— suffering with a period. she had two weeks of pain and _ suffering with a period. she had two weeks of pain and constant - suffering with a period. she had twol weeks of pain and constant bleeding. she went _ weeks of pain and constant bleeding. she went to— weeks of pain and constant bleeding. she went to the — weeks of pain and constant bleeding. she went to the doctors, _ weeks of pain and constant bleeding. she went to the doctors, and - weeks of pain and constant bleeding. she went to the doctors, and the - she went to the doctors, and the doctor— she went to the doctors, and the doctor couldn't _ she went to the doctors, and the doctor couldn't do _ she went to the doctors, and the doctor couldn't do a _ she went to the doctors, and the doctor couldn't do a great - she went to the doctors, and the doctor couldn't do a great deal. ij doctor couldn't do a great deal. i said. _ doctor couldn't do a great deal. i said. what— doctor couldn't do a great deal. i said, what happened, _ doctor couldn't do a great deal. i said, what happened, because i doctor couldn't do a great deal. i. said, what happened, because this doesn't _ said, what happened, because this doesn't seem — said, what happened, because this doesn't seem normal. _ said, what happened, because this doesn't seem normal. she - said, what happened, because this doesn't seem normal. she said - said, what happened, because this| doesn't seem normal. she said she had made — doesn't seem normal. she said she had made another— doesn't seem normal. she said she had made another appointment. i doesn't seem normal. she said she. had made another appointment. but they said _ had made another appointment. but they said it— had made another appointment. but they said it was _ had made another appointment. but they said it was normal. _ had made another appointment. but they said it was normal. i— had made another appointment. but they said it was normal. i said, - had made another appointment. but they said it was normal. i said, i- they said it was normal. i said, i don't _ they said it was normal. i said, i don't think— they said it was normal. i said, i don't think it _ they said it was normal. i said, i don't think it is _ they said it was normal. i said, i don't think it is normal. - they said it was normal. i said, i don't think it is normal. one - they said it was normal. i said, ij don't think it is normal. one day she was— don't think it is normal. one day she was in— don't think it is normal. one day she was in a _ don't think it is normal. one day she was in a lot _ don't think it is normal. one day she was in a lot of— don't think it is normal. one day she was in a lot of pain- don't think it is normal. one day she was in a lot of pain and - don't think it is normal. one day she was in a lot of pain and cold| she was in a lot of pain and cold sweats — she was in a lot of pain and cold sweats i— she was in a lot of pain and cold sweats. i said, _ she was in a lot of pain and cold sweats. ! said, that's— she was in a lot of pain and cold sweats. i said, that's enough, i she was in a lot of pain and cold i sweats. i said, that's enough, you are going — sweats. ! said, that's enough, you are going to— sweats. i said, that's enough, you are going to a85 _ sweats. i said, that's enough, you are going to a&e now, _ sweats. i said, that's enough, you are going to a&e now, this - sweats. i said, that's enough, you are going to a&e now, this isn't i are going to a&e now, this isn't normal — are going to a&e now, this isn't normal she _ are going to a&e now, this isn't normal. she went _ are going to a&e now, this isn't normal. she went to _ are going to a&e now, this isn't normal. she went to a&e - are going to a&e now, this isn't normal. she went to a&e and i are going to a&e now, this isn't i normal. she went to a&e and she are going to a&e now, this isn't - normal. she went to a&e and she was diagnosed _ normal. she went to a&e and she was diagnosed with — normal. she went to a&e and she was diagnosed with endometriosis. - diagnosed with endometriosis. 0bviously— diagnosed with endometriosis. obviously the _ diagnosed with endometriosis. obviously the doctors - diagnosed with endometriosis. obviously the doctors had - diagnosed with endometriosis. i obviously the doctors had failed her. obviously the doctors had failed her~ but— obviously the doctors had failed her~ but i— obviously the doctors had failed her. but i recognised _ obviously the doctors had failed her. but i recognised what- obviously the doctors had failed her. but i recognised what she i obviously the doctors had failed i her. but i recognised what she was going _ her. but i recognised what she was going through _ her. but i recognised what she was going through wasn't _ her. but i recognised what she was going through wasn't a _ her. but i recognised what she was going through wasn't a normal - going through wasn't a normal period — going through wasn't a normal -eriod. �* . . going through wasn't a normal -eriod. �* ., ., ., period. but a male boss might not have done that _ period. but a male boss might not have done that or— period. but a male boss might not have done that or recognise - period. but a male boss might not have done that or recognise that? | have done that or recognise that? no, i don�*t think they would have no, i don't think they would have done _ no, i don't think they would have done i_ no, i don't think they would have done i had — no, i don't think they would have done. i had suffered _ no, i don't think they would have done. i had suffered from - no, i don't think they would have done. i had suffered from heavyi done. i had suffered from heavy periods — done. i had suffered from heavy periods and _ done. i had suffered from heavy periods and painful— done. i had suffered from heavy periods and painful periods - done. i had suffered from heavy periods and painful periods buti done. i had suffered from heavyj periods and painful periods but i knew— periods and painful periods but i knew what — periods and painful periods but i knew what she _ periods and painful periods but i knew what she was _ periods and painful periods but i knew what she was going - periods and painful periods but i. knew what she was going through periods and painful periods but i- knew what she was going through was extreme _ knew what she was going through was extreme it _ knew what she was going through was extreme. it needed _ knew what she was going through was extreme. it needed to— knew what she was going through was extreme. it needed to be _ knew what she was going through was extreme. it needed to be sorted, - extreme. it needed to be sorted, medically — extreme. it needed to be sorted, medically i— extreme. it needed to be sorted, medically. i probably— extreme. it needed to be sorted, medically. i probably wasn't - extreme. it needed to be sorted, | medically. i probably wasn't quite prepared — medically. i probably wasn't quite prepared for— medically. i probably wasn't quite prepared for the _ medically. i probably wasn't quite prepared for the diagnosis- medically. i probably wasn't quite prepared for the diagnosis but. medically. i probably wasn't quite prepared for the diagnosis but i. prepared for the diagnosis but i knew— prepared for the diagnosis but i knew it — prepared for the diagnosis but i knew it was _ prepared for the diagnosis but i knew it was very— prepared for the diagnosis but i knew it was very wrong - prepared for the diagnosis but i knew it was very wrong for- prepared for the diagnosis but i knew it was very wrong for this| knew it was very wrong for this woman— knew it was very wrong for this woman to _ knew it was very wrong for this woman to be _ knew it was very wrong for this woman to be breaking - knew it was very wrong for this woman to be breaking out- knew it was very wrong for this woman to be breaking out on. knew it was very wrong for this woman to be breaking out on a knew it was very wrong for this - woman to be breaking out on a cold sweat _ woman to be breaking out on a cold sweat and _ woman to be breaking out on a cold sweat and doubled _ woman to be breaking out on a cold sweat and doubled up _ woman to be breaking out on a cold sweat and doubled up in— woman to be breaking out on a cold sweat and doubled up in pain - woman to be breaking out on a cold sweat and doubled up in pain whenl sweat and doubled up in pain when having _ sweat and doubled up in pain when having a _ sweat and doubled up in pain when having a period _ sweat and doubled up in pain when having a period i_ sweat and doubled up in pain when having a period. i knew— sweat and doubled up in pain when having a period. i knew that - sweat and doubled up in pain when having a period. i knew that the . having a period. i knew that the period _ having a period. i knew that the period was— having a period. i knew that the period was wrong. _ having a period. i knew that the period was wrong. horat- having a period. i knew that the period was wrong.— having a period. i knew that the ieriod was wront. ., ., , ., ., period was wrong. how do you mean? it should period was wrong. how do you mean? it should riot — period was wrong. how do you mean? it should not have _ period was wrong. how do you mean? it should not have gone _ period was wrong. how do you mean? it should not have gone on _ period was wrong. how do you mean? it should not have gone on for - period was wrong. how do you mean? it should not have gone on for a - it should not have gone on for a fortnight — it should not have gone on for a fortnight she _ it should not have gone on for a fortnight. she should _ it should not have gone on for a fortnight. she should not- it should not have gone on for a fortnight. she should not have i it should not have gone on for a - fortnight. she should not have been bleeding _ fortnight. she should not have been bleeding for— fortnight. she should not have been bleeding for a — fortnight. she should not have been bleeding for a fortnight, _ fortnight. she should not have been bleeding for a fortnight, it - bleeding for a fortnight, it shouldn't— bleeding for a fortnight, it shouldn't be _ bleeding for a fortnight, it shouldn't be more - bleeding for a fortnight, it shouldn't be more than. bleeding for a fortnight, it shouldn't be more than ai bleeding for a fortnight, it - shouldn't be more than a week. but the doctor— shouldn't be more than a week. but the doctor didn't _ shouldn't be more than a week. but the doctor didn't recognise - shouldn't be more than a week. but the doctor didn't recognise or- the doctor didn't recognise or didn't— the doctor didn't recognise or didn't push— the doctor didn't recognise or didn't push the _ the doctor didn't recognise or didn't push the appointmenti the doctor didn't recognise or- didn't push the appointment through to a specialist — didn't push the appointment through to a specialist. so _ didn't push the appointment through to a specialist. so i _ didn't push the appointment through to a specialist. so i made _ didn't push the appointment through to a specialist. so i made the - to a specialist. so i made the decision— to a specialist. so i made the decision to _ to a specialist. so i made the decision to take _ to a specialist. so i made the decision to take her- to a specialist. so i made the decision to take her to - to a specialist. so i made the decision to take her to a&e i to a specialist. so i made the i decision to take her to a&e and that's— decision to take her to a&e and that's where _ decision to take her to a&e and that's where she _ decision to take her to a&e and that's where she was _ decision to take her to a&e and| that's where she was diagnosed. decision to take her to a&e and - that's where she was diagnosed. [hf that's where she was diagnosed. [if will that's where she was diagnosed. will come in here because you that's where she was diagnosedm will come in here because you have suffered in similar ways in the past. suffered in similar ways in the ast, , ., ., ., suffered in similar ways in the iast. ,., ., ., ., suffered in similar ways in the iast. ., ., 1, .. suffered in similar ways in the ast, ., ., ., ~' ,., suffered in similar ways in the past. good morning and thank you for havin: me. past. good morning and thank you for having me- i— past. good morning and thank you for having me. i have _ past. good morning and thank you for having me. i have been _ past. good morning and thank you for having me. i have been listening - past. good morning and thank you for having me. i have been listening to i having me. i have been listening to what everyone has said and i had similar experiences, i had terrible, horrible periods when i was young, i had to go home from school, i had to go to the office in school and lie down because i was in terrible pain, vomiting, and i would miss days off work when i got older. when i was young i was given ibuprofen and other painkillers but there is this idea that one day when i got pregnant and had a baby i would get better. so there was this feeling that eventually i would grow out of it. and i never did, actually. i would go right into my 40s with painful periods and wasn�*t diagnosed with endometriosis until after i had a hysterectomy. the other thing i wanted to say, after i had the hysterectomy and went straight into the menopause, i had a lot of problems afterwards and nobody knew what was going on.— what was going on. inaudible we are just — what was going on. inaudible we are just losing _ what was going on. inaudible we are just losing the - what was going on. inaudible we are just losing the line - what was going on. inaudible we are just losing the line but| what was going on. inaudible i we are just losing the line but we got most of that. i can hear someone in the background saying absolutely, same with me. that in the background saying absolutely, same with me— in the background saying absolutely, same with me. that was me saying it, exactl the same with me. that was me saying it, exactly the same _ same with me. that was me saying it, exactly the same thing _ same with me. that was me saying it, exactly the same thing to _ same with me. that was me saying it, exactly the same thing to stop - same with me. that was me saying it, exactly the same thing to stop you - exactly the same thing to stop you will have _ exactly the same thing to stop you will have a — exactly the same thing to stop you will have a baby and you will be ok. but i _ will have a baby and you will be ok. but i was _ will have a baby and you will be ok. but i was diagnosed with endometriosis after having my baby. i will endometriosis after having my baby. i will put _ endometriosis after having my baby. i will put a _ endometriosis after having my baby. i will put a question to the good doctor, nighat arif. martin, stoke—on—trent, good morning. you are a grandfather. speak to the doctor about what you need to know and what all men need to know. over to you, martin and the doctor. goad to you, martin and the doctor. good mornint. to you, martin and the doctor. good morning- my _ to you, martin and the doctor. good morning. my granddaughter is having her first— morning. my granddaughter is having her first period — morning. my granddaughter is having herfirst period. i— morning. my granddaughter is having her first period. i know— morning. my granddaughter is having her first period. i know nothing - her first period. i know nothing about— her first period. i know nothing about periods— her first period. i know nothing about periods other— her first period. i know nothing about periods other than - her first period. i know nothing about periods other than the i her first period. i know nothing - about periods other than the obvious things~ _ about periods other than the obvious things~ things— about periods other than the obvious things. things like _ about periods other than the obvious things. things like personal- about periods other than the obvious things. things like personal care, - things. things like personal care, is she _ things. things like personal care, is she supposed _ things. things like personal care, is she supposed to _ things. things like personal care, is she supposed to have - things. things like personal care, is she supposed to have a - things. things like personal care, is she supposed to have a bath. things. things like personal care, . is she supposed to have a bath every day, is she supposed to have a bath every day. or— is she supposed to have a bath every day. or should — is she supposed to have a bath every day, or should she _ is she supposed to have a bath every day, or should she leave _ is she supposed to have a bath every day, or should she leave it— is she supposed to have a bath every day, or should she leave it for- is she supposed to have a bath every day, or should she leave it for a - day, or should she leave it for a week— day, or should she leave it for a week while _ day, or should she leave it for a week while she _ day, or should she leave it for a week while she has _ day, or should she leave it for a week while she has her- day, or should she leave it for a week while she has her period? j day, or should she leave it for al week while she has her period? i have _ week while she has her period? i have done — week while she has her period? i have done most— week while she has her period? i have done most things _ week while she has her period? i have done most things i - week while she has her period? i have done most things i can- week while she has her period? ii have done most things i can think of, have done most things i can think of. taking — have done most things i can think of. taking her— have done most things i can think of, taking herto_ have done most things i can think of, taking her to see _ have done most things i can think of, taking her to see the - have done most things i can think of, taking her to see the nurse i have done most things i can think of, taking her to see the nurse at| of, taking her to see the nurse at the local— of, taking her to see the nurse at the local doctors— of, taking her to see the nurse at the local doctors with _ of, taking her to see the nurse at the local doctors with a _ of, taking her to see the nurse at the local doctors with a friend - of, taking her to see the nurse at the local doctors with a friend so| the local doctors with a friend so they can — the local doctors with a friend so they can discuss _ the local doctors with a friend so they can discuss her— the local doctors with a friend so they can discuss her periods - the local doctors with a friend so . they can discuss her periods coming up. they can discuss her periods coming up but— they can discuss her periods coming up but she — they can discuss her periods coming up. but she didn't— they can discuss her periods coming up. but she didn't take _ they can discuss her periods coming up. but she didn't take too - they can discuss her periods coming up. but she didn't take too kindly. up. but she didn't take too kindly to that _ up. but she didn't take too kindly to that and — up. but she didn't take too kindly to that and snubbed _ up. but she didn't take too kindly to that and snubbed it. _ up. but she didn't take too kindly to that and snubbed it. so - up. but she didn't take too kindly to that and snubbed it. so i'm - to that and snubbed it. so i'm really— to that and snubbed it. so i'm reallyjust_ to that and snubbed it. so i'm reallyjust looking _ to that and snubbed it. so i'm reallyjust looking for- to that and snubbed it. so i'm reallyjust looking for extra i to that and snubbed it. so i'm i reallyjust looking for extra help. martin. _ reallyjust looking for extra help. martin. it's— reallyjust looking for extra help. martin. it's so _ reallyjust looking for extra help. martin, it's so lovely _ reallyjust looking for extra help. martin, it's so lovely for - reallyjust looking for extra help. martin, it's so lovely for a - reallyjust looking for extra help. i martin, it's so lovely for a grandad martin, it�*s so lovely for a grandad to be so proactive. the first question about having a bath every day. it defends how she feels in herself. —— it depends. she day. it defends how she feels in herself. -- it depends. she doesn't reall like herself. -- it depends. she doesn't really like a — herself. -- it depends. she doesn't really like a bath _ herself. -- it depends. she doesn't really like a bath at _ herself. -- it depends. she doesn't really like a bath at all, _ herself. -- it depends. she doesn't really like a bath at all, to - herself. -- it depends. she doesn't really like a bath at all, to be - really like a bath at all, to be honest — really like a bath at all, to be honest i— really like a bath at all, to be honest. ., _, ., ., honest. i would encourage her to have a shower. _ honest. i would encourage her to have a shower. use _ honest. i would encourage her to have a shower. use clear - honest. i would encourage her to have a shower. use clear water i have a shower. use clear water around the genitals to clean yourself but she doesn�*t need to use any water inside. she can just use clear water, any water inside. she can just use clearwater, no any water inside. she can just use clear water, no soap, any water inside. she can just use clearwater, no soap, no any water inside. she can just use clear water, no soap, no perfume, any water inside. she can just use clearwater, no soap, no perfume, it doesn�*t need to smell like a rose or anything like that because the vagina and vulva are self—cleaning. sheesh she does not need to use the flowerjet sheesh she does not need to use the flower jet stream sheesh she does not need to use the flowerjet stream inside because that will ruin the friendly bacteria around the vagina which can be very helpful. you don�*t need to get her to sit in the bath, just have a shower with running water and clean herself. the other thing is to change her sanitary and period products regularly. if she is using pads then teach her about wings on the pads as well, meaning she is not likely to get leaking. on tampons, it is good you got her to see a nurse because they can talk about different tampons for different flows. a period can last up to ten days but that isn�*t for every single girl. in the first three or four days it can be heavy and they can clot. that is normal. the reason is because the lining of the womb is coming away. she might get pain or cramps but it�*s important to keep an eye on that. pain is not normal. if she is getting a slight cramp then that can be, using paracetamol and ibuprofen over the counter should be all right, but if it is not managed then that�*s another instigator to go to the doctor. the other thing your granddaughter might notice is that she feels a lot of craving for food and her mood fluctuates. the reason for the mood fluctuating is because of oestrogen and progesterone. not everyone gets premenstrual tension, or premenstrual dysphoric disorder, but you need to look out for signs of extreme anger, irritability, clumsiness, she might drop things or become forgetful, brain fog. some women and girls experience shoulder, hip, breast or tummy pain. that is all normal, because of another bodily chemical. some will vomit, but that is an extreme symptom. lots of tlc. chocolate is great if she likes chocolate and sweet stuff, because we have a craving for carbohydrates and sugar in moderation. hydration is important, and regular changing of sanitary products. i would say to keep the conversation going, talk with her and ask what she wants, always. thank you very much.— and ask what she wants, always. thank you very much. thank you, doctor, thank you very much. thank you, doctor. that _ thank you very much. thank you, doctor, that was _ thank you very much. thank you, doctor, that was comprehensive i thank you very much. thank you, i doctor, that was comprehensive and necessary and important. and it was vital. i�*m dipping into my thesaurus, but you know what i mean, it was great. it was so useful to people. thank you, martin. it was good that you ask that one. some breaking news, the number of people in england waiting to start routine hospital treatments has risen to a new record high. nhs england says an estimated 7.6 million people were waiting to start treatment at the end ofjune, up from 7.5 million in may, the highest number since records began in august 2007. more than 380,000 people in england have been waiting more than 52 weeks to start routine hospital treatment at the end ofjune, down slightly on the end ofjune, down slightly on the previous month. the government and nhs england have set the ambition of ending all waiting times of more than a year by march of 2025. the top line, the number of people in england waiting to start hospital treatments has risen to a record high. an estimated 7.6 million are waiting to start treatment as of the end ofjune. more on the bbc news website and throughout the day on 5 live and on bbc sounds. good morning, abi. goad bbc sounds. good morning, abi. good mornint. bbc sounds. good morning, abi. good morning- what — bbc sounds. good morning, abi. good morning. what would _ bbc sounds. good morning, abi. good morning. what would you _ bbc sounds. good morning, abi. good morning. what would you like - bbc sounds. good morning, abi. good morning. what would you like to - bbc sounds. good morning, abi. good morning. what would you like to say? | morning. what would you like to say? i 'ust morning. what would you like to say? ljust wanted — morning. what would you like to say? ljust wanted to _ morning. what would you like to say? i just wanted to say _ morning. what would you like to say? i just wanted to say that _ morning. what would you like to say? i just wanted to say that it's _ morning. what would you like to say? i just wanted to say that it's a - i just wanted to say that it�*s a discussion that is way overdue. when i was younger i suffered with periods as a teenager. the pain started and it kind of progressed. it got really bad and at the point i couldn�*t function. at work there were times when i couldn�*t even go to work. because i had a male manager it was so difficult for me to discuss it with my manager. at 1.i to discuss it with my manager. at 1.1 had to fill in a sick leave when i came back to say why i was off sick. ijust went i came back to say why i was off sick. i just went on i came back to say why i was off sick. ijust went on google and would googled the medical term. he was like, what�*s that? embarrassingly i had to explain to him that it�*s to do with period pain. he said, oh, that shouldn�*t be a big deal. it wasn�*tjust the pain, it was the heavy bleeding, every time i got up, because i was working with men as my colleagues, whenever i got up i would be very conscious of checking myself. that self-consciousness - of checking myself. that self-consciousness is i of checking myself. that self-consciousness is a i of checking myself. that - self-consciousness is a huge of checking myself. that self—consciousness is a huge thing. we say goodbye to viewers on bbc news and bbc two now, but the conversation continues on bbc radio 5 live and bbc sounds. we have another hour of debate coming up. live from london. this is bbc news deadly and dangerous wildfires rip through hawaii — a candidate in ecuador�*s is assassinated while on the come in trail. politicians are set to question senior police in northern ireland about major a data breach of officers and civilian staff details. hello. this is bbc news. the death toll from the wildfires in the us state of hawaii has now risen to at least 36 people. large parts of the tourist town of lahaina on the island of maui have been burned to the ground. firefighters are still trying to get the fires under control. there were reports some people had jumped into the ocean to escape the fast—moving flames. this is the aftermath of the wildfires. officials said it is still difficult to determine the true extent of the damage on maui, and have warned the death toll may rise.