tasked with turning things around at the john lewis partnership. she had impeccable career credentials, except for the fact she never done a day's work in retail in her life. could she really be the person to pull off what would be one of the biggest turnarounds in british business for a generation? a daughter of the windrush generation, born in the east end of london, sharon white had scaled the height of civil service is one of the senior economist —— sharon white had, before taking charge at ofcom. but within weeks of her surprise appointment, she found herself having to take some very tough decisions — permanently shutting almost a third of the department stores factory outlets. this was a very bitter pill to swallow indeed. and yet, two years into a five year plan, there are some signs that the medicine is working. she's never given an major lengthy broadcast interview before. the question is simple, and a lot rides on the answer notjust for her, but for the very idea of shopping and of britain itself. can thejohn lewis partnership survive? sharon, good to see you. nice to see you. dame sharon white, thank you for speaking to the bbc and to me. in preparation, i spoke at as always to a lot of people about the subject. business journalism. they all said the same thing about you. this is terrifying, by the way. they were mostly very nice but terrified about yourjob. very impressive person, but she has the toughestjob in british business. john lewis... at a time when retail is going through a revolution in the high street is being hammered. and then a pandemic happens. how's it going? wow. it's been the most extraordinary and worthwhile two years in my career, and there is the old idea of the best of times and the worst of times, so the first main decision i took all 50 john lewis stores before the government requires you to do so. my goodness, i've been in for four weeks or something. it's been tough, but there've also been some extraordinarily positive moments. when you're having to make such difficult decisions upfront and are new in thejob, a lot of it has to be very hard, but would it be fair to say the toughest thing was letting go of people? making people redundant is the last thing you want to do, as a new boss, you had to do. yeah. we had to take some very difficult decisions — closure of stores and partners made redundant. i think it's difficult for any business, but for partnerships, i think it's been really painful because as a partner, you feel yourself part of a community, part of a family. you've been criticised heavily for not paying back £190 million of government support in the form of business rates relief and furlough. i can understand from a commercial point of view why this is a huge amount of money and while commercially you might say we're not going to pay that back, but don't you have a moral duty to pay that money back? just to be clear on furlough, as a partnership, we took a very small amount of furlough in summer 2020. the last two years have been an economic shock that we haven't seen in our lifetime, and probably haven't seen since the depression or spanish flu. we only claimed business rates relief, as it was intended. and used as intended. the government support package was to ensure that healthy businesses survived through the economic shock, the economic earthquake of the pandemic, and that's exactly how we used the money. but it has protected jobs. it has protected the business from even more difficult restructure in which no customer, no community would want to see. is it... i want to get the figures right. £85 million fro waitrose? broadly. the broad criticism of that has been that came at a time when gross generally were still able to stay open and serve customers. a local grocer might say why should a wealthy waitrose get £5 million when so many small businesses were forced to shut? we work as a single partnership and we had four and a half thousand john lewis partners supporting waitrose through the pandemic. we only took support that we needed. it saved jobs. it saved us from more difficult restructuring, and i will always defend that. you grew up barely a mile down the road and. you can see lots of people somewhere, probably within about 50 or 60 yards, my father used to work at temple mills. if you walk to stratford, it's a great sign of regeneration i'm not sure i would've ever dreamt they would be a john lewis in stratford. born in 1967, sharon grew up in layton in the east of london. my mum came as a 19—year—old, i can't believe of it, and my dad came when he was in the late 50s, and they met here and tried to rent. it was really difficult to rent as a family. of course it was a. all those assigns of no blacks, no irish, no dogs. it was a really big thing that they were able to find the right house. hats off to my dad. tell us about him, curtis. my dad curtis is still alive and now 86. like my mum, coming from jamaica to england for five years, would then go back and they got married, they had their children here, they made this their home. but my dad is interesting because he always wanted to improve himself. even though he didn't do much schooling. he do much schooling. left school when he was about oi’ he left school when he was about 15 or 16. he left school when he was about 15 or 16. my mother left school when she was 11. wow. she hardly did any primary school because she was the eldest of nine. every time i grandmother had a baby, my mum had to leave school. oh, my goodness. it's very interesting. neither of them had huge amounts of formal schooling. what did you think you wanted to be when you grew up? quite weird. i always wanted to go to cambridge. didn't really know what i wanted to study, but ijust thought the idea of itjust sounded for somebody who was quite bookish. were you a quite easy person to be a parent to? were you a quite easy person to be a parent to? were you difficult and naughty as well? just a boring, serious minded... did lots of sport. how seriously did you taste that? if you asked my 14—year—old self, it would be to go to the olympics. what was your personal best? my pb was when i was 15, it was 12 point something. 12 seconds? it was 12... that is unbelievably fast. i couldn't drive that. i peaked when i was 15. i loved to run. how conscious are you here of the fact that you were from a jamaican family? i was very conscious that my parents hadn't been born here, and very conscious of having a brown skin in a community that was majority... white working class. i felt very british but i felt very british with a brown skin. i wonder what you would say to the young teenager growing up in the working class community who looks at the shiny towers of places like this and says, "i don't belong there, i won't fit in." it's run by people who don't look or sound like me. it's run by people who don't look or sound like me. what would your advice be to that person? i'd say it doesn't always have to be like that. i was very low—key. i'm a very resilient, slightly take no prisoners. having that confidence that the fact that shiny building, that bank, that business, maybe that law firm doesn't look like you today doesn't mean it can't change. i think more representation, more mentoring, meeting more people who have your similar background and may the only difference is luck and its opportunity and privilege. a lot of people looking at these professions say they see certain elite codes of behaviour, certain knowing ways of being. certain ways of dressing, ways of talking, certain references about what you read or what music you listen to. they create insiders and outsiders. have you had to, perhaps when you turned up in whitehall, have you ever had to change in order to get on? so, i've never felt that very explicit way except one role i had. i though, "goodness, everybody looks and dresses in a different way." and i bought a completely different set of clothes. it wasn't naturally me, because i needed to adjust my style, i thought. i remember thinking, what have i done? there was something that felt a bit uncomfortable and i literally remember the day i piled up all these dresses, took them and restarted wearing training shoes to the office. and i was quite senior and far into my career at that stage. so, that's how you dress. what about how you speak? something i think about a lot. have you ever consciously or unconsciously change your accent, something i think about a lot? not consciously. this is code switching, you switch how you sound in order to get on. it would be fascinating if there was a video through life to see whether my accent has changed from school, and then the world of work. my accent has been commented on by colleagues. whether when people hear me, they think about my accent, orjust the fact that my female, i'm black and working. the whole package is typical. i've never felt self—conscious about how i speak. when you turned up at the treasury in the early 1990s, did you feel you could get on there amidst these terrifying corridors of power? you clearly did. kenneth clark described you as one of the best people he'd ever worked with. i think if i hadn't been to 0xbridge, i would have found the treasury much tougher. the interesting thing about the treasury, the only people who really looked like me were cleaning the loos and they were very few women. someone said to me early on, "you're permitted one eccentricity, and if you're a woman, basically that's it." was then incredibly supportive and help to navigate, because the treasury has its own, and i loved the treasury. but it has its own code and ways of working. you mention you loved the treasury, and i admit, the first time i ever became aware of you was when you and your husband were referred to as mr and mrs treasury. can we just confirm that your idea of a romantic night in, not talking about fiscal multipliers? that sounded rather patronising. i think this was... running public finances, probably just been made a second permanent secretary. robert was responsible for the economic forecasting. the sad thing is any parents we spend 90% of the time worrying about the kids and the rest of the time worrying about how nobody filled the fridge. we now have waitrose easy access. you mentioned the massive shock that was the pandemic. before that, there was the massive economic changes brought about by brexit. what's your assessment of the impact of these two seismic changes? in other words, how is the pandemic presented different challenges to brexit? the pandemic has had by far the biggest impact. brexit has had relatively little impact, but covid has had, and particularly the impact on what's happened in the labour market has had huge impact. we were sitting here maybe six or nine months ago and probably worried about a huge spike in unemployment, and what's fascinating is that unemployment is pretty much back to pre—pandemic levels, but we've got more than i million people who've come out of the labour market, who aren't looking... they've lost their jobs. so, that tightness is obviously causing, it's more difficult to hire, and i think that's another big adjustment. if the chancellor is listening to you right now and you wanted to convey a clear message about what he needs to do to ensure that british high streets survive, what with that message be? probably two messages. if i'm allowed. certainly. i'm sure he be delighted to hear. the first... business rates, because it was set up on a high street that is less disrupted than it is today. if i were the chancellor and i was looking at a land tax that will provide more level playing field, oxygen for high street retailers like myself. the second big message is how do we encourage people to come back into work? what the encouragement, is it part of retirement? otherwise, as a country, in terms of productivity, the lots ——loss of skills for businesses like myself, i think that's a huge issue that's going to come and bite us. i have a couple of other questions. you are nearly five years in charge of 0fcom, and a lot of your dealings with the bbc were about how to make sure they were universal and how it appealed to enough people, especially young people. why would you say that universality doesn't ——does represent something of a crisis with bbc were asked to appeal to a lot of people? bbc paid for through licence fee, that contract, in a sense, between bbc and the viewer can only be maintained if there is broad support. the bbc isn'tjust for one section of society, but it's for most of society. soon as the bbc loses that universal appeal, i think it's very, very difficult to maintain that contract. you talked of the future director general? no, thank you. why, you have enough to do withjohn lewis? whenever you see these speculations, you always take it on the chin. i could not be more excited and feel more privileged. rather than be a future director general. but there is a sense online, which is going to 60%, you are having to play amazon at their own gain and require customer data to run these massive distribution centres. maybe you're profiting, but they have forced you onto their turf. i see the amazon comparison really differently. i think if we were going to set ourselves up to be a huge online, highly transactional business, that's not our territory. 0ur territory, whether we shop from us online or in stores, you'll feel the service, have a partner explained to you what the new spring collection for men's where might be. certainly i definitely need advice on. maximum ten words minimum one. what time do you wake up? 6:55am. what's your exercise? running and pilates. do you read a physical newspaper? just cancelled it as of last week. we used to get the ft. what social media platform are you most active on? 0n the great twitter reader, but i never post. your greatest hero, living or dead? 0h, probably 0bama. why 0bama? my kids are mixed race, and they know somebody who looks like them became president of the united states. barack or michelle? it was barack. dickens or shakespeare? shakespeare. rolling or talking? neither. what car do you drive? i never learned to drive. is that going to change? i should, but i doubt it. how much coffee do you drink? one a day. do you eat meat? not much. favourite meal? anything with fish. nearly there. person from history you would most like to meet? rosa parks. would you like to go to space? no, terrified. finally, what advice would you give to that young girl in east london looking to make her mark in the world? have fun. on march the 10th, thejohn lewis partnership announced their latest results for the 202i - 2022 financial year, which saw them still running at a slight loss but a substantial reduction. accordingly, sharon restored the bonus. awarding partners a 3% top up of annual salary. half £1 billion lost last year, a loss of 26 million this year, but this includes exceptional items. your profits are 181 million, that means partners are getting bonus again. what are the biggest factors which have allowed you? we've ta ken of a lot of cost out of the business. it's been super tough for partners, whether that's some of the productions we've done, management, we've obviously closed some of our shops last year. is going to be a 3% bonus this year. it's going to cost about £46 million. are the days of big bonuses gone for good? this time last year, saying to partners we are in a pandemic, you are extraordinary, and we can't afford to pay a bonus was heartbreaking. no, it's fantastic to be able to pay a bonus. i'd love to be back to the days of double digit bonuses, but it's uncertain times and there just aren't any guarantees. since we last spoke, war has returned to europe, and i think it's important to look at the impact russia will have notjust on the partnership, but also on the macro economic picture in which you operate. are you preparing to remove russian sourced products from your shelves? anything that's made in russia is off the shelves. supply chains are really complicated, so we are looking if there are other products we need to take off. access to the labour market has been your big concern for decades. i know you tried very hard and use your position to give opportunities to school leaders, particularly from less privileged backgrounds. how exactly is the school system failing to equip our children for the world of work? we still have a school system that is incredibly exam oriented and very linear. the skills and jobs are changing so rapidly. we are retraining many of our partners to be hgv drivers. we just launched the biggest programme for data scientist do you enjoy leadership? i do. i have quite an unusual style and that i like to nudge and i like to facilitate conversations, and i love to see how seeds that you sown, an amazing talent coming through. what do you know now after several years that you wish you've known when you started out as a leader? this is going to sound really trite, but it really is be yourself. one or twojobs i've done in the past, particularly when i looked back and i was almost dawn back you almost have imposter syndrome, there is something about relaxing into yourself. is that something you've done? how did you get rid of your imposter syndrome? i always be suspicious of someone who didn't have a bit of one. i talked to lots of those senior people and regardless of background, they can't quite believe they're in the roles they are. i think i'm extraordinarily lucky. we're all faking it to make it. dame sharon white, thank you very much indeed. mr amol rajan, thank you. hello, there. for much of the country easter sunday was a fine, dry, and sunny day, quite warm again across the south—east, but we had seen some changes at west with a weather front pushing in, bringing outbreaks of rain and cloud and also increasing breeze. and that is how it is going to be for easter monday, a coolerfresher feel to things with a few showers dotted around. here is the frontal system continuing to work its way towards the east of the country during this evening and overnight. barely anything on it by the time it reaches the eastern side of the country, but it will leave a legacy of cloud, a few showers dotted around, particularly across the northern half of the country where it will be quite blustery as the winds feature. further south, we should see some lengthy clear spells. so, low pressure to the north—west of the country for easter monday, more isobars on the chart, it will be breezy, and we are also dragging in some cooler air of the atlantic around the area of low pressure, as you can see from the blue hue there. so, a fresher start to easter monday but they will be quite a bit of sunshine around. into the afternoon, we could start to see the cloud beginning to build up pretty much anywhere with the odd shower developing. most of the showers across the north—west of the country, the weather here will be quite blustery as the winds will be a feature here, particularly for the northern and western isles and into northern ireland. the winds a little bit lighter further south and east. so, temperatures will be noticeable, we've been used to the low 20s across the south—east of the country, 16 or 17 degrees for easter monday afternoon and the low teens further north and west. now, through monday night, further showers continue across england and wales, there will be some clear spells, too, this weather front pushing into the north—west of the country to bring outbreaks of rain. it is going to be a chilly night, i think, northern and western areas under clearer skies, could even see a touch of frost, so gardeners, farmers, just take note. into tuesday, we are in between weather systems, this area of low pressure pulling away to the north, it means the winds will be turning lighter again so it is a chilly start to the day for tuesday, we'll have that weather front across western scotland, northern ireland, bringing thicker cloud, outbreaks of rain. england and wales, some sunshine through the morning but then into the afternoon, a few showers could develop, some of these could be heavy and they will be slow—moving because the winds will be light. and a cooler day to come as well, 12 to 15 degrees. looks like high pressure wants to take charge again from wednesday onwards so there will be a lot of dry weather around towards the end of the week, winds coming in from the east so it will tend to be a little bit warmer towards the west of the country. tonight at ten, we're live in eastern ukraine, as fighters in the city of mariupol, ignore russia's deadline, to lay down their arms. the ukrainian prime minister says they'll fight to the end in mariupol, as in the east, preparations for a major russian offensive. these patients now face a 20 hour journey to the west of here, with a kind of injuries they have. and what that tells you is the critical need the ukrainians have to free at hospital space. and defending the homeland — we've been meeting those in the east of the country who are preparing to battle a new russian assault.

Related Keywords

Country , East , Government , Plan , Fighters , Onslaught , Russian , Archbishop , Uk , Canterbury , Sharon White , Chairman , Bbc News , Ofjohn Lewis Partnership , Amol Rajan , Asylum Seekers , Rwanda , Programme , Retailers , Warning , Price Competition , Viewers , Language , Pandemic , World , Sellers , Lockdowns , Lives , Returns , Chain Couple , Two , Things , John Lewis Partnership , Career Credentials , The Business , One , Person , Fact , Retail , Generation , Life , Turnarounds , Daughter , East End Of London , Windrush , Decisions , Charge , Third , Height , Civil Service , Economist , Surprise Appointment , Ofcom , Pill , Department Stores Factory Outlets , Medicine , Interview , Signs , Five , Lot , Partnership , Idea , Question , Simple , Shopping , Answer , Thejohn Lewis , People , Thing , Way , Preparation , Business Journalism , Subject , Yourjob , Business , John Lewis , Toughestjob , High Street , Revolution , Times , Career , Decision , Worst , The Best Of Times , Something , Goodness , Stores , Tough , 50 , Four , Thejob , Partners , Boss , Partner , Community , Family , Partnerships , Part , 90 Million , 190 Million , Relief , Furlough , Government Support , Form , Point Of View , I Don T , Money , Amount , Back , Duty , 2020 , Shock , Business Rates , Haven T , Lifetime , Flu , Depression , Businesses , Package , Jobs , Customer , Restructure , Earthquake , Waitrose , Criticism , Figures , 85 Million , 5 Million , Customers , Gross , Grocer , A Million , Lots , Support , Restructuring , Road , Saved Jobs , Father , Somewhere , Stratford , Temple Mills , 60 , Sign , Regeneration , Dad , It , Mum , Born , London , Layton , 1967 , 19 , Dogs , Blacks , Course , Late 50s , Irish , House , Hats , Curtis , Him , 86 , Children , England , Home , Jamaica , Schooling , Left School , School , Mother , Primary School , He Left School , Eldest , Baby , Grandmother , Oi , 15 , 16 , 11 , Nine , Amounts , Cambridge , Somebody , Didn T , Ijust , Itjust , Parent , Self , Boring , Sport , Olympics , 14 , Pb , Best , Point Something , 12 , Parents , Working Class Community , Skin , Majority , Teenager , White Working Class , Sound , Towers , Places , Who Don T Look , Fit In , Advice , Prisoners , Confidence , Law Firm Doesn T , Building , Mentoring , Representation , Bank , Background , Ways , Difference , Codes , Luck , Dressing , Opportunity , Professions , Being , Behaviour , Privilege , Talking , References , Music , Insiders , Outsiders , Whitehall , Order , Role , Dresses , Clothes , Everybody , Set , Bit , Style , Training Shoes , Thinking , It Wasn T , Office , Stage , Accent , Work , Code Switching , Video , Working , Female , Colleagues , Orjust , Treasury , Corridors Of Power , 1990 , Kenneth Clark , Someone , Women , Loos , 0xbridge , 0 , Eccentricity , Woman , Time , Code , Mr , Husband , Mrs , Multipliers , Romantic Night In , Running Public Finances , Robert , Second Permanent Secretary , Kids , Rest , Forecasting , Fridge , Nobody , 90 , Impact , Changes , Assessment , Easy Access , Brexit , Words , Challenges , Labour Market , Covid , Unemployment , Spike , Six , Chancellor , Tightness , Levels , Aren T Looking , Hire , Adjustment , Who , Message , Streets , Messages , First , Land Tax , It Part , Productivity , Retirement , Encouragement , Terms , Level Playing Field , Oxygen , Skills , Loss , Issue , Questions , Couple , Us , Universality Doesn T , Dealings , 0fcom , Contract , Crisis , Licence Fee , Sense , Society , Most , Viewer , Section , Isn Tjust , Director General , Appeal , The Future , Withjohn Lewis , Speculations , Chin , Amazon , Gain , Turf , Distribution Centres , Customer Data , Comparison , Territory , Online , Service , Spring Collection , 0ur Territory , Newspaper , Men , Exercise , Pilates , 55am , 6 , 55 , Ten , Ft , Reader , Twitter , Hero , Social Media Platform , 0bama , President , Race , Barack , Michelle , Neither , Shakespeare , Dickens , Car , Anything , Coffee , Meat , Meal , Fish , Girl , Mark , History , East London , Rosa Parks , Have Fun , Thejohn Lewis Partnership , Results , 202i 2022 Financial Year , Saw , On March The 10th , 2022 , March The 10th , 202 , 10 , Bonus , Reduction , Awarding , Salary , Items , 26 Million , 6 Billion , 1 Billion , 3 , Factors , Profits , Cost , 181 Million , Some , Productions , Shops , Management , Bonuses , Good , 46 Million , 6 Million , Double Digit Bonuses , Notjust , Guarantees , War , Europe , Shelves , Products , Supply Chains , Picture , Access , Position , Opportunities , Concern , School System , Backgrounds , Leaders , Exam , Many , Hgv Drivers , Leadership , Data Scientist , Conversations , Talent , Seeds , Leader , Twojobs , Imposter Syndrome , Roles , Thank You , Hello , Much , Weather Front , Rain , Cloud , Outbreaks , South East , Fine , Breeze , Sunny Day , Coolerfresher , Easter Sunday , Showers , System , Legacy Of Cloud , Side , Half , Spells , South , Winds Feature , Pressure , Area , There , Chart , North West , Air , Isobars , Atlantic , Blue Hue , Winds , Weather , Afternoon , Sunshine , Feature , Odd Shower Developing , Anywhere , Western Isles , Temperatures , Teens , Lighter , Northern Ireland , Wales , Monday Night , 17 , 20 , Gardeners , Weather Systems , Areas , Note , Skies , A Touch Of Frost , North , Western Scotland , High Pressure , Looks , West , Eastern Ukraine , Preparations , Prime Minister , City , Mariupol , The End , Ukrainian , Arms , Patients , Journey To The West , Offensive , Kind , Injuries , Homeland , Hospital Space , Assault , Ukrainians ,