invasion threat to ukraine we will discuss this further with our guests. hello and a very warm welcome. could this be one party too many? tonight borisjohnson is facing further questions this evening about a surprise birthday party that's alleged to have been held at number 10 during the first lockdown in 2020, despite government rules in place that banned any social gatherings indoors. itv news says the prime minister's wife, carriejohnson, helped organise the surprise get—together onjune 19th just after the prime minister returned from this school visit in hertfordshire. # happy birthday to you # happy birthday to you # happy birthday dear prime minister... up to 30 people are said to have attended the party in the cabinet room, including interior designer, lulu lytle — who was not a member of number 10 staff but was there in downing street helping renovating boris johnson's flat. the organisers are understood to have laid on a cake and some m&s nibbles, with the gathering lasting some 20—30 minutes. the prime minister we are told only attended for around ten minutes. and they have denied reports he attended a later party with friends and family in the downing street flat. the leader of the opposition labour party has said the prime minister has to go. party has said the prime minister has to no. . . , party has said the prime minister hastouo. , _ ., . has to go. this is yet more evidence of a prime — has to go. this is yet more evidence of a prime minister _ has to go. this is yet more evidence of a prime minister who _ has to go. this is yet more evidence of a prime minister who believes - of a prime minister who believes that the — of a prime minister who believes that the rules that he made don't apply— that the rules that he made don't apply to — that the rules that he made don't apply to him. so we have a prime minister— apply to him. so we have a prime minister and government spending their whole time mopping up sleaze and deceit _ their whole time mopping up sleaze and deceit while millions of people are struggling to pay their bills. we can't — are struggling to pay their bills. we can't afford to go on with this chaotic, — we can't afford to go on with this chaotic, rudderless government. the prime _ chaotic, rudderless government. the prime minister is a national distraction. he has got to go. just a week before the party, on the 10th ofjune 2020, johnson said this to the nation: "i urge everyone to continue to show restraint and respect the rules which are designed to keep us all safe." he went on: "it's only because of the restraint that everyone, you all have shown so far, that we are able to move gradually out of this lockdown". let's speak to our political correspondent chris mason. this has been a shocker of a day. it started with the allegations that have been made by the conservative muslim mp nusrat ghani, who said that she was sacked for being muslim. the treasury minister lord agnew resigned at the dispatch box this afternoon because of how the government handled fraud in its coronavirus business loan scheme. and it ends tonight with this report of another party. what is downing street making of the cabinet room party, and then these reports of a later party in the prime minister's flat? , �* , later party in the prime minister's flat? , �*, ., , ., , flat? yes, let's look at this latest revelation _ flat? yes, let's look at this latest revelation on _ flat? yes, let's look at this latest revelation on parties. _ flat? yes, let's look at this latest revelation on parties. in - flat? yes, let's look at this latest revelation on parties. in the - flat? yes, let's look at this latest revelation on parties. in the very| revelation on parties. in the very room where the cabinet signed off on the rules that ban such things, there was just such a thing, a social gathering with birthday cake, as you say, and party food and all the rest of it, for around 30 people, on the 19th ofjune 2020, to mark the prime minister's birthday. what are downing street saying about it tonight? they are not denying it. they acknowledge it happened and they say boris johnson was they acknowledge it happened and they say borisjohnson was only there for about ten minutes. and i guess the essence of what we are hearing from one or two people, nadine dorries who was very loyal to borisjohnson is saying, are we really calling this a party? it was a gathering of people in the workplace to mark someone's birthday. 0thers workplace to mark someone's birthday. others can choose what label to attach to it, but this sort of stuff wasn't meant to happen, and there are lots of people not least those in the covid family support groups, those who lost loved ones in the pandemic, who tell horrendous stories about not being able to grieve, not being able to attend funerals, not being able to be at the bedside of those who passed away shortly afterwards. so it has yet again tapped into that deep sense of angerfrom so many again tapped into that deep sense of anger from so many people. again tapped into that deep sense of angerfrom so many people. i have just come back over the road from being in parliament. conservative mps not exactly keen to appear in front of cameras this evening, such is their anger and such is their awareness that it is very, very difficult to defend. and as you say, just these revelations on top of the stuff that came the other day, worth pointing out they are denying downing street, any suggestion there was a later gathering in the prime minister's flat in which there was some kind of socialfunction, they are saying that did not happen, and they are acknowledging that yes there was this get—together at two o'clock in the afternoon in the cabinet room on the prime minister's birthday. this cabinet room on the prime minister's birthda . , , , ., birthday. this is the statement we are 'ust birthday. this is the statement we are just showing _ birthday. this is the statement we are just showing people _ birthday. this is the statement we are just showing people of - birthday. this is the statement we are just showing people of what i birthday. this is the statement we i are just showing people of what they said of that later party,, they are saying that the prime minister hosted a small number of family members outside that evening. we are still waiting for sue gray's report, and a number of people have said, the long we have to wait for it, the greater the chance that more of these allegations and revelations will come out, and so it has proven. why do we still need this report a 51% of the british public, we saw this in a poll today, have already decided that the prime minister was at a party and that he lied? that decided that the prime minister was at a party and that he lied?- at a party and that he lied? that is at a party and that he lied? that is a ruestion at a party and that he lied? that is a question being _ at a party and that he lied? that is a question being asked _ at a party and that he lied? that is a question being asked by - at a party and that he lied? that is a question being asked by plenty, | a question being asked by plenty, and what we have got here, christian, is those who are broadly loyal to borisjohnson in the conservative fold are wandering around with the equivalent of a rhetorical shield with sue gray on it, so when you ask them about this stuff, they immediately revert to sue gray. two things worth mentioning. we understand she did know about this party, or gathering, call it what you will, this birthday gathering in downing street, so she isn't having to buy another lever arch file and extent of investigation to look into yet another shindig, she was aware of it. so news of this get—together was coming in the end anyway, but i think what matters is that it come separately from whatever else might be in her report, and therefore allows anger to build amongst the most important electorate in the uk at the moment, which is conservative mps because they hold the prime minister's fate in their hands, and it allows them to stew about this in advance of seeing sue gray's report. in terms of why we need it, i think it will be interesting, and we won't know until we see it, how much more thanjust a cataloguing of know until we see it, how much more than just a cataloguing of the events is it? the terms of reference for her inquiry suggest that is broadly what it will be, cataloguing of all these events, quite a few of which we already knew about, one of which we already knew about, one of which we already knew about, one of which we have just learned about in the last couple of hours, and who knows what we might learn that she has discovered thatjournalists didn't beat her to in the first place. but also have stark is she in that report, or at least the findings of it which will be published, and there could be a row after those findings are published to try to flush out the remainder of it into the public domain. how stark is it in pointing out here is a particular occasion and these were the rules of the time? in other words, to what extent has it fanned the flames of anger amongst conservative mps who up to now might be just angry, conservative mps who up to now might bejust angry, but conservative mps who up to now might be just angry, but haven't yet put in a letter calling for a vote of confidence? how much does it tip those into thinking, you know what? it is about time he went. 0r those into thinking, you know what? it is about time he went. or does it serve to tempt those back from the precipice, to mix my metaphors, who might be about to do that? so even if a considerable number of the shindigs it will report on, we already know about, that is why it matters. ., . ., , ., . matters. how much of this lever arch file, matters. how much of this lever arch file. jorginho. _ matters. how much of this lever arch file, jorginho, will— matters. how much of this lever arch file, jorginho, will the _ matters. how much of this lever arch file, jorginho, will the and _ matters. how much of this lever arch file, jorginho, will the and the - file, jorginho, will the and the other european governments be looking at. —— the french at the other european governments be looking at. is it difficult dealing with the prime minister when we are up with the prime minister when we are up to our ears with party games, georgina? h0 up to our ears with party games, geora ina? ., ., , up to our ears with party games, georgina?— georgina? no one is paying any attention at _ georgina? no one is paying any attention at all— georgina? no one is paying any attention at all to _ georgina? no one is paying any attention at all to what - georgina? no one is paying any attention at all to what is - georgina? no one is paying any attention at all to what is going | georgina? no one is paying any i attention at all to what is going on in london. — attention at all to what is going on in london, everyone finds it ridiculous _ in london, everyone finds it ridiculous. i was listening to sir keir— ridiculous. i was listening to sir keir starmer saying that the prime minister— keir starmer saying that the prime minister is — keir starmer saying that the prime minister is a national distraction, he is _ minister is a national distraction, he is certainly not an international destruction. all eyes are focusing on what _ destruction. all eyes are focusing on what is — destruction. all eyes are focusing on what is happening on the border between _ on what is happening on the border between russia and ukraine, a war potentially — between russia and ukraine, a war potentially about to happen, and that is— potentially about to happen, and that is where all the attention is. i that is where all the attention is. i think the — that is where all the attention is. i think the uk has done stuff, it has sent— i think the uk has done stuff, it has sent troops and armaments to ukraine, _ has sent troops and armaments to ukraine, and european countries are focusing _ ukraine, and european countries are focusing on— ukraine, and european countries are focusing on that. but frankly when i have spoken to people in paris and said, _ have spoken to people in paris and said. have — have spoken to people in paris and said, have you paid any attention to what is _ said, have you paid any attention to what is happening in london? people 'ust what is happening in london? people just look_ what is happening in london? people just look up— what is happening in london? people just look up to the sky and say, there _ just look up to the sky and say, there has— just look up to the sky and say, there has been scandal, scandal, parties. — there has been scandal, scandal, parties, when is it all going to end? — parties, when is it all going to end? and _ parties, when is it all going to end? and why in fact is boris johnson _ end? and why in fact is boris johnson still in power? so end? and why in fact is boris johnson still in power? so they see the reputation _ johnson still in power? so they see the reputation that _ johnson still in power? so they see the reputation that precedes - johnson still in power? so they see the reputation that precedes it. - johnson still in power? so they see | the reputation that precedes it. and i know that politics is a contact sport, but there are lots of people out there saying, i can think of one or two boxing referees that might have called it by now. it has been one of those days. which bit do you think is most damaging to the prime minister? i think is most damaging to the prime minister? ~ . think is most damaging to the prime minister? ~ , . ., minister? i think it is cumulative over time- _ minister? i think it is cumulative over time. we _ minister? i think it is cumulative over time. we go _ minister? i think it is cumulative over time. we go back _ minister? i think it is cumulative over time. we go back to - minister? i think it is cumulative . over time. we go back to december when _ over time. we go back to december when the _ over time. we go back to december when the prime _ over time. we go back to december when the prime minister— over time. we go back to december when the prime minister had - over time. we go back to december when the prime minister had no - when the prime minister had no knowledge _ when the prime minister had no knowiedge of— when the prime minister had no knowledge of these _ when the prime minister had no knowledge of these gatherings i when the prime minister had no. knowledge of these gatherings in number— knowledge of these gatherings in number ten, _ knowledge of these gatherings in numberten, i_ knowledge of these gatherings in numberten, ithink— knowledge of these gatherings in number ten, i think what - knowledge of these gatherings in number ten, i think what is- number ten, i think what is happening— number ten, i think what is happening to _ number ten, i think what is happening to the _ number ten, i think what is happening to the tory- number ten, i think what is| happening to the tory party in parliament— happening to the tory party in parliament as _ happening to the tory party in parliament as they— happening to the tory party in parliament as they are - happening to the tory party in| parliament as they are getting increasingly— parliament as they are getting increasingly frustrated. - parliament as they are getting increasingly frustrated. but i parliament as they are getting l increasingly frustrated. but the saving — increasingly frustrated. but the saving grace _ increasingly frustrated. but the saving grace for— increasingly frustrated. but the saving grace for the _ increasingly frustrated. but the saving grace for the prime - increasingly frustrated. but the - saving grace for the prime minister is whitst _ saving grace for the prime minister is whilst there _ saving grace for the prime minister is whilst there are _ saving grace for the prime minister is whilst there are very— saving grace for the prime minister is whilst there are very clear - saving grace for the prime minister is whilst there are very clear signsl is whilst there are very clear signs that he _ is whilst there are very clear signs that he is— is whilst there are very clear signs that he is becoming _ is whilst there are very clear signs that he is becoming something. is whilst there are very clear signs that he is becoming something of| that he is becoming something of an electorai— that he is becoming something of an electoral liability— that he is becoming something of an electoral liability to— that he is becoming something of an electoral liability to the _ that he is becoming something of an electoral liability to the party, - that he is becoming something of an electoral liability to the party, it - electoral liability to the party, it is not _ electoral liability to the party, it is not absolutely _ electoral liability to the party, it is not absolutely clear— electoral liability to the party, it is not absolutely clear who - electoral liability to the party, it | is not absolutely clear who might electoral liability to the party, it - is not absolutely clear who might be an electoral — is not absolutely clear who might be an electoral asset _ is not absolutely clear who might be an electoral asset among _ is not absolutely clear who might be an electoral asset among the - an electoral asset among the contenders— an electoral asset among the contenders to _ an electoral asset among the contenders to the _ an electoral asset among the contenders to the throne, . an electoral asset among the l contenders to the throne, and an electoral asset among the . contenders to the throne, and i think— contenders to the throne, and i think that — contenders to the throne, and i think that is _ contenders to the throne, and i think that is what _ contenders to the throne, and i think that is what is _ contenders to the throne, and i think that is what is giving - think that is what is giving potential— think that is what is giving potential plotters- think that is what is giving potential plotters cause i think that is what is giving l potential plotters cause for thought _ potential plotters cause for thou . ht. �* potential plotters cause for thou:ht. �* ., �* ., ., thought. and i don't want to sound like i am batting _ thought. and i don't want to sound like i am batting for _ thought. and i don't want to sound like i am batting for the _ thought. and i don't want to sound like i am batting for the prime - like i am batting for the prime minister here or in any way belittling things that have been said today, but i'm just interested in the timing. when you look at the people who are making the allegations, william wragg, nusrat ghani, both vice chairs of the 1922 committee. they have both made allegations within the space of a week at a time when the prime minister is very weak. you have got a treasury minister, lord agnew, resigning today at the dispatch box in the most public fashion that you could ever do it, to heighten embarrassment for the prime minister. is this coming from within the conservative party? is there something happening that makes it almost impossible for the prime minister to come back from this? it is looking increasingly difficult to see how he can bounce back from this, and even if he survives it in the short to medium term, isn't wounded in a way that he never quite recovered from, because as anand was saying, it is that drip, drip, and anything that falls within the broad spectrum of a question about conduct within government becomes something that ends up back in front of the prime minister again, becomes the latest case study if you like on this overall question about whether borisjohnson is this overall question about whether boris johnson is fit to be this overall question about whether borisjohnson is fit to be british prime minister, and that is what connects rows about parties 18 months ago, an allegation of islamophobia from a former minister, and even the resignation of a minister at the dispatch box in the house of lords about how the government handled itself during worst points of the coronavirus pandemic. in their defence, lord agnew suggest that the treasury was frittering away money and wasn't being sufficiently careful with public money, and in the government's defence, they said we had to act incredibly quickly at a time of economic emergency and with that there was going to be some money that was lost, basically. but the country should forgive the government wanting to react as quickly as it did. but you have also got conservative mps at the same time saying, hang on a minute, there is a cost of living crisis going on, you are about to crank up national insurance and on the other hand you are being relatively dismissive of this colossal amount of money, running into billions of pounds, that was frittered away without appropriate checks during the pandemic. just to briefly come back to your point about william wragg and nusrat ghani, they are two figures who are not particularly fans of the prime minister, but which downing street would have been wise to make sure they kept onside as much as possible, and they can and are politically taking their moment to make points to a prime minister who is very vulnerable. i minister who is very vulnerable. i guess on that point, the chum is in the water, and the sharks will be suckling, and then there are people who might be briefing who might ordinarily not have briefed, but think, the prime minister is on his way out, so now i will try and keep my nose clean by telling what i know to sue gray. that is what happens, isn't it? people look after their own when you get to this sort of tipping point. it own when you get to this sort of tipping point-— tipping point. it is happening in front of our— tipping point. it is happening in front of our eyes. _ tipping point. it is happening in front of our eyes. when - tipping point. it is happening in front of our eyes. when you - tipping point. it is happening in. front of our eyes. when you look back— front of our eyes. when you look back and — front of our eyes. when you look back and think _ front of our eyes. when you look back and think about _ front of our eyes. when you look back and think about how - front of our eyes. when you look back and think about how all - front of our eyes. when you look. back and think about how all these gatherings— back and think about how all these gatherings took— back and think about how all these gatherings took place, _ back and think about how all these gatherings took place, there - back and think about how all these gatherings took place, there was l gatherings took place, there was clearly _ gatherings took place, there was clearly a — gatherings took place, there was clearly a sense _ gatherings took place, there was clearly a sense in _ gatherings took place, there was clearly a sense in number- gatherings took place, there was clearly a sense in number ten- gatherings took place, there was. clearly a sense in number ten that this was— clearly a sense in number ten that this was a — clearly a sense in number ten that this was a tight _ clearly a sense in number ten that this was a tight ship, _ clearly a sense in number ten that this was a tight ship, they- clearly a sense in number ten that this was a tight ship, they can - clearly a sense in number ten that this was a tight ship, they can goi this was a tight ship, they can go about— this was a tight ship, they can go about doing _ this was a tight ship, they can go about doing this _ this was a tight ship, they can go about doing this sort _ this was a tight ship, they can go about doing this sort of- this was a tight ship, they can go about doing this sort of thing - this was a tight ship, they can goj about doing this sort of thing and no one _ about doing this sort of thing and no one would _ about doing this sort of thing and no one would leak _ about doing this sort of thing and no one would leak it. _ about doing this sort of thing and no one would leak it. soon - about doing this sort of thing and no one would leak it. soon as - about doing this sort of thing andl no one would leak it. soon as that ship starts — no one would leak it. soon as that ship starts to _ no one would leak it. soon as that ship starts to be _ no one would leak it. soon as that ship starts to be a _ no one would leak it. soon as that ship starts to be a little _ no one would leak it. soon as that ship starts to be a little less - ship starts to be a little less happy. _ ship starts to be a little less happy, people— ship starts to be a little less happy, people are _ ship starts to be a little less happy, people are more - ship starts to be a little less - happy, people are more tempted to leak, _ happy, people are more tempted to leak, and _ happy, people are more tempted to leak, and the — happy, people are more tempted to leak, and the week— happy, people are more tempted to leak, and the week at _ happy, people are more tempted to leak, and the week at the _ happy, people are more tempted to leak, and the week at the prime - leak, and the week at the prime minster— leak, and the week at the prime minster looks, _ leak, and the week at the prime minster looks, the _ leak, and the week at the prime minster looks, the less- leak, and the week at the primej minster looks, the less people's future _ minster looks, the less people's future are — minster looks, the less people's future are bound _ minster looks, the less people's future are bound up _ minster looks, the less people's future are bound up with - minster looks, the less people's future are bound up with him, . minster looks, the less people's l future are bound up with him, and the more — future are bound up with him, and the more you _ future are bound up with him, and the more you get— future are bound up with him, and the more you get a _ future are bound up with him, and the more you get a bit. _ future are bound up with him, and the more you get a bit. so - future are bound up with him, and the more you get a bit. so it- future are bound up with him, and the more you get a bit. so it has. the more you get a bit. so it has been _ the more you get a bit. so it has been remarkable, _ the more you get a bit. so it has been remarkable, this _ the more you get a bit. so it has been remarkable, this steady. been remarkable, this steady outpouring _ been remarkable, this steady outpouring of _ been remarkable, this steady outpouring of claims, - been remarkable, this steady outpouring of claims, of - been remarkable, this steady- outpouring of claims, of e—mails, and once — outpouring of claims, of e—mails, and once there _ outpouring of claims, of e—mails, and once there is _ outpouring of claims, of e—mails, and once there is a _ outpouring of claims, of e—mails, and once there is a perception- outpouring of claims, of e—mails, i and once there is a perception that the prime — and once there is a perception that the prime minister— and once there is a perception that the prime minister is _ and once there is a perception that the prime minister is weak- and once there is a perception that the prime minister is weak and - and once there is a perception that. the prime minister is weak and might not be _ the prime minister is weak and might not be there — the prime minister is weak and might not be there soon, _ the prime minister is weak and might not be there soon, the _ the prime minister is weak and might not be there soon, the problems - the prime minister is weak and might not be there soon, the problems of. not be there soon, the problems of leak and _ not be there soon, the problems of leak and get— not be there soon, the problems of leak and get worse _ not be there soon, the problems of leak and get worse and _ not be there soon, the problems of leak and get worse and worse, - not be there soon, the problems of leak and get worse and worse, and| leak and get worse and worse, and the vultures — leak and get worse and worse, and the vultures circle _ leak and get worse and worse, and the vultures circle and _ leak and get worse and worse, and the vultures circle and you - leak and get worse and worse, and the vultures circle and you hear - the vultures circle and you hear stories — the vultures circle and you hear stories about _ the vultures circle and you hear stories about potential- the vultures circle and you hear stories about potential rivals i stories about potential rivals holding _ stories about potential rivals holding funding _ stories about potential rivals holding funding dinners- stories about potential rivals holding funding dinners and| stories about potential rivals l holding funding dinners and so stories about potential rivals - holding funding dinners and so on, trying— holding funding dinners and so on, trying to— holding funding dinners and so on, trying to get — holding funding dinners and so on, trying to get their _ holding funding dinners and so on, trying to get their campaign - holding funding dinners and so on, trying to get their campaign is - trying to get their campaign is going — trying to get their campaign is going it — trying to get their campaign is going it all— trying to get their campaign is going. it all adds _ trying to get their campaign is going. it all adds to _ trying to get their campaign is going. it all adds to that - trying to get their campaign is| going. it all adds to that sense trying to get their campaign is i going. it all adds to that sense of instability. — going. it all adds to that sense of instability, and _ going. it all adds to that sense of instability, and of— going. it all adds to that sense of instability, and of course - going. it all adds to that sense of instability, and of course what . going. it all adds to that sense of. instability, and of course what that ultimately — instability, and of course what that ultimately means _ instability, and of course what that ultimately means is _ instability, and of course what that ultimately means is that _ instability, and of course what that ultimately means is that number. instability, and of course what thatl ultimately means is that number 10 spends _ ultimately means is that number 10 spends its _ ultimately means is that number 10 spends its time _ ultimately means is that number 10 spends its time fighting _ ultimately means is that number 10 spends its time fighting these - ultimately means is that number 10 spends its time fighting these firesl spends its time fighting these fires rather— spends its time fighting these fires rather than — spends its time fighting these fires rather than governing _ spends its time fighting these fires rather than governing the - spends its time fighting these fires rather than governing the country, | rather than governing the country, and even _ rather than governing the country, and even as— rather than governing the country, and even as georgina _ rather than governing the country, and even as georgina said, - rather than governing the country, and even as georgina said, even . rather than governing the country, and even as georgina said, even ifj and even as georgina said, even if the government— and even as georgina said, even if the government is— and even as georgina said, even if the government is relatively- the government is relatively proactive _ the government is relatively proactive sending _ the government is relatively proactive sending troops - the government is relatively| proactive sending troops and the government is relatively- proactive sending troops and arms to ukraine, _ proactive sending troops and arms to ukraine, nobody— proactive sending troops and arms to ukraine, nobody notices _ proactive sending troops and arms to ukraine, nobody notices because - proactive sending troops and arms toj ukraine, nobody notices because this has become — ukraine, nobody notices because this has become a — ukraine, nobody notices because this has become a pantomime. _ ukraine, nobody notices because this has become a pantomime. we - ukraine, nobody notices because this has become a pantomime.— ukraine, nobody notices because this has become a pantomime. we are going to discuss it right _ has become a pantomime. we are going to discuss it right now. _ has become a pantomime. we are going to discuss it right now. chris _ to discuss it right now. chris mason, thank you very much for your thoughts. we should be focusing on events thousands of miles away on the border with ukraine, nato currently sending additional ships to fight at bases in eastern europe, and troops on standby as tensions rise. borisjohnson was due to speak to the white house this evening, there is a gloomy picture developing. the british prime minister warned the us president that a russian invasion of ukraine would be a disastrous mistake. invading ukraine from russian perspective is going to be a painful, violent and bloody business, and i think it is very important that people in russia understand that this could be a new chechnya. the british side say there are now 60 russian battle groups in place around ukraine. with more kit being sent over night to units already in place in belarus. 127,000 troops are in position. and you will see from this map in the shape of the black boxes dotted around ukraine that new units are arriving all the time. the diplomacy is delicately balanced. this the russians have given the white house another week to reply in writing to demands they have made. in the meantime, nato is stepping up security along its eastern flank. denmark will send a frigate to the baltic sea. spain and the netherlands are moving fighterjets to lithuania and bulgaria, france is sending troops, under nato command, to romania. some of these missions are long standing but nato is making it clear they are being beefed up. we are working for the best, we are hoping for the best, but we have to be prepared for the worst, meaning that we also are, nato are increasing our presence in the eastern part of the alliance. this afternoon the eu foreign ministers met in brussels to discuss the crisis, they were joined virtually by us secretary of state anthony blinken. questions remain in washington how closely the european nations are aligned in terms of a deterrent. the head of the german navy was dismissed this weekend, after telling academics that all president putin wanted was respect and respect he probably deserves. so far germany has refused all ukraine's requests for ammunition, and it has vetoed nato sending arms to ukraine. leon panetta is the former us secretary of defense and the director of the cia under the 0bama administration, and joins me now from california. thank you for being patient with us, because i know you are coming to talk to us at the top of the programme and we had this breaking story. first of all let's have this discussion about what has been going on in brussels, we have at the secretary of state on the core during a round this afternoon, and apparentlyjoe biden also joining during a round this afternoon, and apparentlyjoe biden alsojoining a meeting this evening. does that reflect some concern still in washington that not everybody is on the same page when it comes to how we should respond to a russian invasion? 0n the contrary, i think it reflects that there really is a unified approach here between the united states and our allies in nato. right now everyone is moving forward to reinforce the nato position in europe. 8500 us troops have been put on notice that they could be moved within these next few hours. in addition to that, combat aircraft and combat ships are being moved near the ukrainian and combat ships are being moved nearthe ukrainian area, and combat ships are being moved near the ukrainian area, and add to that the additional weapons that are now being provided to the ukrainians. i think it is very clear that if putin makes the decision to go into the ukraine, he is going to pay a very heavy price.— pay a very heavy price. there has been some _ pay a very heavy price. there has been some talk— pay a very heavy price. there has been some talk today _ pay a very heavy price. there has been some talk today in - pay a very heavy price. there has been some talk today in brussels that they are going to keep their staff in ukraine, the united states in the uk started drawing down staff members in the embassies in kyiv. the foreign policy chief, joseph burrell, was concerned that in doing so, publicly you add to the tension, that you are dramatising the situation on the ground, and at the moment he wants diplomacy to pay out. is there a danger that we get ahead of ourselves?— ahead of ourselves? well, it is important _ ahead of ourselves? well, it is important that _ ahead of ourselves? well, it is important that we _ ahead of ourselves? well, it is important that we take - ahead of ourselves? well, it is i important that we take necessary precautions here for the safety of individuals. i think the fact that the russians continue to reinforce their position in belarus, that they now have 127,000 forces located along the border, and the intelligence reports that indicate that they are likely to invade, you put that all together, it is important that we take steps certainly to at least protect the lives of the families that might be involved. in addition to that, i think it is important to increase our leverage in terms of taking these security precautions, because what that does is it increases the leveraged with regards to dealing with russia, and putin has to make a decision. does he want to pay the high price that he is going to pay if he invades, or would it be better to negotiate some kind of approach that allows him to claim some limited victory in terms of security for russia? he has got a very difficult decision to make. he may be a bully, but he's not stupid. the former ambassador to brussels, president 0bama's former ambassador anthony gardner, has said that he fully admits the significant upside is that the uk can act swiftly in foreign affairs including ukraine the —— rather than being dragged into endless european waffle, he says that is a surprise upside to brexit. has this experience with ukraine demonstrated a bit more that the uk is more nimble outside the eu? ., , , ., the uk is more nimble outside the eu? . , , ., , the uk is more nimble outside the eu? ., , ., eu? the uk has been a very important all to the eu? the uk has been a very important ally to the united _ eu? the uk has been a very important ally to the united states _ eu? the uk has been a very important ally to the united states in _ eu? the uk has been a very important ally to the united states in a _ ally to the united states in a number of ways, in terms of security issues, intelligent issues and in dealing with our common adverse areas, so i think anything that gives the uk some additional flexibility to be able to move and protect itself, and try to add some additional leveraged here to show russia that we are indeed unified in supporting the ukraine and coming together to deny russia the opportunity to invade a sovereign state, i think that is a very important step to take. in state, i think that is a very important step to take. in mind of the conversation _ important step to take. in mind of the conversation we _ important step to take. in mind of the conversation we have - important step to take. in mind of the conversation we have just - important step to take. in mind of| the conversation we have just had, and you heard the leader of the opposition tonight saying that the prime minister is a distraction, i know you wouldn't comment on that, but if you are looking at a short to medium term strategy, and you don't know if the prime minister is going to be there, does that complicate the picture? i to be there, does that complicate the picture?— the picture? i think right now in terms of security, _ the picture? i think right now in terms of security, it _ the picture? i think right now in terms of security, it is - the picture? i think right now in terms of security, it is the - the picture? i think right now in i terms of security, it is the actions that britain takes to reinforce its position with regards to nato, that is the most important step that can be taken. i think that is what putin is going to be looking at, and frankly that is what he should be looking at. in frankly that is what he should be lookin: at. . frankly that is what he should be lookin: at. , ., . ., , looking at. in terms of sanctions, there is a white _ looking at. in terms of sanctions, there is a white house _ looking at. in terms of sanctions, j there is a white house sponsored bill that is in congress at the moment, a bipartisan bill that both sides have said that they would back. the democrats say that they would back it if russia invades. there were republican senators who want to impose the sanctions now. why don't you impose them so that the russians can see you are serious? i the russians can see you are serious? ~ the russians can see you are serious?— the russians can see you are serious? ~ . serious? i think the president should have _ serious? i think the president should have that _ serious? i think the president should have that option - serious? i think the president should have that option to - serious? i think the president - should have that option to decide when to apply those sanctions. he is reading the intelligence, he is a very familiar with the situation on the ground. i think it is important to give him the option to move with the sanctions now. he has been moving now with our military forces. he is moving with our aircraft and our ships. he is moving with our aircraft and ourships. he is he is moving with our aircraft and our ships. he is moving with the weapons that are being delivered to the ukraine. he has taken a number of steps to send an important signal to the russians about the price they are going to pay. 0n sanctions, i would give him the same opportunity to make thatjudgment. leah would give him the same opportunity to make thatjudgment. to make that 'udgment. leon panetta, alwa s aood to make thatjudgment. leon panetta, always good to — to make thatjudgment. leon panetta, always good to get _ to make thatjudgment. leon panetta, always good to get your _ to make thatjudgment. leon panetta, always good to get your thoughts. - always good to get your thoughts. thank you very much forjoining us. thank you very much forjoining us. thank you. thank you very much for 'oining us. thank you.— pick up the discussion about the arms going to ukraine and the navy chief, are they a problem when it comes to april speaking with one voice? it comes to april speaking with one voice? . ., comes to april speaking with one voice? , ., , .,, , , voice? it is a problem, but it is not the only — voice? it is a problem, but it is not the only problem. - voice? it is a problem, but it is not the only problem. when i voice? it is a problem, but it is not the only problem. when it| voice? it is a problem, but it is- not the only problem. when it comes to russia _ not the only problem. when it comes to russia or— not the only problem. when it comes to russia or other policy issues, you know. — to russia or other policy issues, you know, european countries are divided. _ you know, european countries are divided, and what you are seeing is division _ divided, and what you are seeing is division not — divided, and what you are seeing is division not only between european countries _ division not only between european countries but also in the case of the german government where you have different _ the german government where you have different ministers arguing for a different ministers arguing fora different— different ministers arguing for a different approach. now, let's take a step— different approach. now, let's take a step back from that. what particularly given that the us government and administration is trying _ government and administration is trying very— government and administration is trying very hard to keep european countries — trying very hard to keep european countries and nato allies abreast of the talks, _ countries and nato allies abreast of the talks, i— countries and nato allies abreast of the talks, i think that is a really good _ the talks, i think that is a really good thing that is happening, and the second thing is that you are seeing — the second thing is that you are seeing european countries mobilise themselves, to actually get to neighbouring countries, so there is a lot happening there. but yes there are questions around if russia does invade _ are questions around if russia does invade ukraine, what will europe's response — invade ukraine, what will europe's response be? when it comes to the sanctions _ response be? when it comes to the sanctions policy, how hard will they sanction— sanctions policy, how hard will they sanction russia? germany has questions _ sanction russia? germany has questions. it has concerns about gas pipelines _ questions. it has concerns about gas pipelines and all sorts. so there are a _ pipelines and all sorts. so there are a series of questions —— make serious _ are a series of questions —— make serious questions and discussions about— serious questions and discussions about this — serious questions and discussions about this. we serious questions and discussions about this. ~ ., about this. we will leave it there. we have to _ about this. we will leave it there. we have to go — about this. we will leave it there. we have to go to _ about this. we will leave it there. we have to go to a _ about this. we will leave it there. we have to go to a break- about this. we will leave it there. we have to go to a break very - we have to go to a break very quickly. stay with us, we are going to talk about levelling up and also about covid restrictions. hello there. for the last week or two, we have had an area of high pressure shaping our weather, that is how we started the new week as well. a lot of dry weather today, a week where the front in the north—west, bringing some patchy rain and drizzle across western areas of scotland. the east of scotland seeing sunshine, and also sunshine in the north—east of england, but it is colder where we have had this blanket of low cloud across other parts of england and wales, temperatures no better than four or 5 degrees in places, and that cloud is still around as we head further into the night. we do have clearer skies in northern england, especially to the east of the pennines, so patchy fog is likely, mainly through the vale of york. they could well be a touch of frost as well, but even with that cloud it is not particularly warm overnight. the mildest weather remains in scotland and northern ireland. that fog will lift through the morning as the breeze picks up a little bit, sunshine to the east of the pennines, the best of the sunshine in eastern scotland, and again in northern ireland ahead of another weather front bringing some rain towards the highlands later on in the day. 0therwise dry weather around, temperatures similar to those of today, and if you are underneath at low cloud, misty weather in england and wales, it will not feel warm at all. a week where the front in the north doesn't really bring any significant rain as it fades away, and the next weather system comes in from the atlantic. the head could be a chilly start, then the breeze picks up and it will stir things then the breeze picks up and it will stirthings up, then the breeze picks up and it will stir things up, hopefully lift the low cloud and give a sunshine in england and wales, and the wet weather comes into the north—west yet again, when the winds will be touch and gale force. drawing on some mild air, temperatures everywhere should be a degree or to hire, and could make eight or 9 degrees across england and wales. windy weather transfers into the northern isles overnight, on the net with a front moves its way southwards, but as you can see, there is not much rain on it, most of thatjust get there is not much rain on it, most of that just get squeezed out. there is not much rain on it, most of thatjust get squeezed out. a band of rain clears away from southern areas on thursday, and what little rain there is move through, and then we get some sunshine following on behind with a few showers in the north and west. a north—westerly wind arrives on thursday, not particularly cold, temperatures 8—12. essentially this dry january continues over the week ahead, away from the north—west of the uk, many places are going to be dry, hopefully we will see some more sunshine later in the week. hello, i'm christian fraser. you're watching context on bbc news. more trouble for borisjohnson. number 10 admits downing street staff threw a surprise birthday party for the prime minister at the height of the first pandemic lockdown. he is facing more calls to resign after a string of similar revelations about parties. people travelling to england from outside the uk will no longer have to take a covid test if they are fully vaccinated. tonight with the context, georgina wright, who's in paris with the institut montaigne, and here in the uk, anand menon, director of the thinktank uk in a changing europe. welcome back. people travelling to england from overseas will no longer have to take a covid test if they are fully vaccinated. the requirement to provide a lateral flow or pcr test will be dropped on the 11th feb, in time for the half term break. and it is one of series of measure the british government is ending. from thursday there will be no more vaccine certificates, the legal requirement to wear a mask will go, they have already ended the work from home directive. measures are being eased in scotland and wales too. the transport secretary said today's announcement marks a 'new chapter�* in the pandemic and will make travel much easier. mr speaker, we promised we would not keep these measures in place a day longer than was necessary, and it is obvious to me now that border testing for vaccinated travellers has outlived its usefulness, and therefore, we are scrapping all travel tests for vaccinated people. not only making travel much easier, but also, of course, saving about £100 perfamily but also, of course, saving about £100 per family visits abroad, providing certainties, to passengers and carriers, for the vital spring and carriers, for the vital spring and summer seasons. what we are all suffering from at the moment is covid fatigue. politicians recognise it. and in europe they are following the uk's lead. but there is a much harder line on the continent towards those refusing to get a jab. today, france began banning the unvaccinated from restaurants, tourist attractions, sports venues. the austrian government has made coronavirus vaccinations compulsory. on sunday, police in brussels used water cannon and fired tear gas in an attempt to disperse some 50,000 people, a mix of anti vaxxers and people opposed to covid restrictions. similarly, in washington, thousands gathered on the mall, to protestjoe biden's attempts to impose vaccine mandates. joining me now from houston is katelyn jetelina, a professor of public health at the university of texas. thanks for being with us. i know it's a very different picture in the uk at the moment is what you are experiencing in the united states, but as the transport secretary was saying today, there are some of these restrictions, surely, they have outlived their usefulness, and i would have thought travel restrictions were up there, because it's everywhere. yeah, this virus is everywhere, especially omicron. i think that on an individual level, if you are fully vaccinated, if you are boosted, the risk to you is very low for severe disease. i really, though, more so, iam for severe disease. i really, though, more so, i am concerned about the population level and the level of transmission right now, because every time this virus jumps from person to person, whether they are vaccinated or not, this virus can mutate and change, and we really want to limit that right now. yes, the who said something similar today. the comparing strains of omicron with flu is possibly confusing. they are right. 0micron is milder than delta, and we'll take it, but does that mean —— that does not mean it is milder than the flu. it is still causing an incredible amount of death across the globe when the transmission rate like i said are really high right now, and i think our message right now is we are still in a pandemic. we still have this virus transmitting everywhere. i know people are really tired, but we have the tools to help reduce that transmission in the long run. stay with us, because i want to bring in our panel on this. i want to get a view particularly from paris, georgina, where you are, because i know they brought in these restrictions today, vaccine mandates for people going to restaurants and bars. how has emmanuel macron fared through this pandemic immaculate is a hard task master, covid, i didn't get off to the best of starts? true, but overall, the french electorate _ true, but overall, the french electorate are quite happy with the way that— electorate are quite happy with the way that he dealt with it. i mean, he was _ way that he dealt with it. i mean, he was one — way that he dealt with it. i mean, he was one of the eu ruled out this huge _ he was one of the eu ruled out this huge economic investment plan, and that matters, 0k, not on the outside. _ that matters, 0k, not on the outside, but to all those businesses that were _ outside, but to all those businesses that were worried about being a lie down _ that were worried about being a lie down and — that were worried about being a lie down and having to shutdown completely, and other health site, yes, there — completely, and other health site, yes, there was a slow roll—out of vaccines — yes, there was a slow roll—out of vaccines for— yes, there was a slow roll—out of vaccines for sure, but actually, people — vaccines for sure, but actually, people overall, you are seeing the hi-h people overall, you are seeing the high uptake of people being vaccinated, and actually, those sort of protest _ vaccinated, and actually, those sort of protest you are seeing on the streets — of protest you are seeing on the streets against vaccination, or at least _ streets against vaccination, or at least wanting this freedom to be able to— least wanting this freedom to be able to decide and not have to be imposed — able to decide and not have to be imposed a — able to decide and not have to be imposed a vaccination certificate to id imposed a vaccination certificate to go to— imposed a vaccination certificate to go to restaurants or cinemas, even those — go to restaurants or cinemas, even those people taking part in process, its much _ those people taking part in process, its much reduced than it was before. just looking — its much reduced than it was before. just looking at the uk figures, you think we were over it and it is in the rear—view mirror, potentially, 88,000 people are infected today. that has gone up twice, two days running. 0nly that has gone up twice, two days running. only 520 people in hospital, which is much, much lower than where we were in the second way. but you can't mistake the fact that there is politics mixed up in this, isn't there? 0bviously, that there is politics mixed up in this, isn't there? obviously, the crisis borisjohnson is facing, but also the fact that his backbenchers are really, really pushing now for an end to restrictions? yes, this does go back to what we were _ yes, this does go back to what we were talking — yes, this does go back to what we were talking about _ yes, this does go back to what we were talking about earlier, - yes, this does go back to what we were talking about earlier, the - yes, this does go back to what wel were talking about earlier, the way that the _ were talking about earlier, the way that the sort— were talking about earlier, the way that the sort of— were talking about earlier, the way that the sort of scandal _ were talking about earlier, the way that the sort of scandal over- that the sort of scandal over parties _ that the sort of scandal over parties pollutes _ that the sort of scandal over parties pollutes everything i that the sort of scandal over- parties pollutes everything else, and with— parties pollutes everything else, and with the _ parties pollutes everything else, and with the best _ parties pollutes everything else, and with the best will _ parties pollutes everything else, and with the best will in - parties pollutes everything else, and with the best will in the - parties pollutes everything else, i and with the best will in the world, it's hard _ and with the best will in the world, it's hard to — and with the best will in the world, it's hard to watch _ and with the best will in the world, it's hard to watch the _ and with the best will in the world, it's hard to watch the prime - it's hard to watch the prime minister— it's hard to watch the prime minister lifting _ it's hard to watch the prime minister lifting restrictionsl it's hard to watch the prime i minister lifting restrictions and not think— minister lifting restrictions and not think you _ minister lifting restrictions and not think you are _ minister lifting restrictions and not think you are trying - minister lifting restrictions and not think you are trying to - minister lifting restrictions and not think you are trying to digl not think you are trying to dig ourselves— not think you are trying to dig ourselves out— not think you are trying to dig ourselves out of— not think you are trying to dig ourselves out of a _ not think you are trying to dig ourselves out of a tough - not think you are trying to dig i ourselves out of a tough cornea, aren't— ourselves out of a tough cornea, aren't you? _ ourselves out of a tough cornea, aren't you? so— ourselves out of a tough cornea, aren't you? so there _ ourselves out of a tough cornea, aren't you? so there was - ourselves out of a tough cornea, aren't you? so there was a - ourselves out of a tough cornea, j aren't you? so there was a whizz that element _ aren't you? so there was a whizz that element of— aren't you? so there was a whizz that element of doubt. - aren't you? so there was a whizz that element of doubt. amongst| aren't you? so there was a whizz i that element of doubt. amongst the medical— that element of doubt. amongst the medical community, _ that element of doubt. amongst the medical community, there _ that element of doubt. amongst the medical community, there are - that element of doubt. amongst the i medical community, there are various opinions _ medical community, there are various opinions you — medical community, there are various opinions you hear— medical community, there are various opinions. you hear about _ medical community, there are various opinions. you hear about whether- opinions. you hear about whether restrictions— opinions. you hear about whether restrictions should _ opinions. you hear about whether restrictions should be _ opinions. you hear about whether restrictions should be lifted - opinions. you hear about whether restrictions should be lifted when| restrictions should be lifted when their win — restrictions should be lifted when their win as— restrictions should be lifted when their win as quickly— restrictions should be lifted when their win as quickly as _ restrictions should be lifted when their win as quickly as they- restrictions should be lifted when i their win as quickly as they should. 0ne their win as quickly as they should. one part _ their win as quickly as they should. one part of— their win as quickly as they should. one part ofthe _ their win as quickly as they should. one part of the debate _ their win as quickly as they should. one part of the debate that - their win as quickly as they should. one part of the debate that gets i 0ne part of the debate that gets completely— one part of the debate that gets completely lost _ one part of the debate that gets completely lost year _ one part of the debate that gets completely lost year for - one part of the debate that gets completely lost year for me - one part of the debate that gets completely lost year for me is, i completely lost year for me is, while _ completely lost year for me is, while we — completely lost year for me is, while we might— completely lost year for me is, while we might be _ completely lost year for me is, while we might be doing - completely lost year for me is, i while we might be doing relatively well in _ while we might be doing relatively well in terms _ while we might be doing relatively well in terms of _ while we might be doing relatively well in terms of hospitalisations, i well in terms of hospitalisations, there _ well in terms of hospitalisations, there are — well in terms of hospitalisations, there are millions— well in terms of hospitalisations, there are millions and _ well in terms of hospitalisations, there are millions and millions i well in terms of hospitalisations,| there are millions and millions of people _ there are millions and millions of people around _ there are millions and millions of people around the _ there are millions and millions of people around the world - there are millions and millions of people around the world who i there are millions and millions of people around the world who are | people around the world who are absolutely — people around the world who are absolutely not _ people around the world who are absolutely not vaccinated, - people around the world who are absolutely not vaccinated, and i people around the world who are i absolutely not vaccinated, and the more _ absolutely not vaccinated, and the more we _ absolutely not vaccinated, and the more we have _ absolutely not vaccinated, and the more we have that, _ absolutely not vaccinated, and the more we have that, the _ absolutely not vaccinated, and the more we have that, the more - absolutely not vaccinated, and the i more we have that, the more danger in there _ more we have that, the more danger in there is— more we have that, the more danger in there is of— more we have that, the more danger in there is of the _ more we have that, the more danger in there is of the spreading, - in there is of the spreading, therefore _ in there is of the spreading, therefore the _ in there is of the spreading, therefore the more - in there is of the spreading, therefore the more danger. in there is of the spreading, - therefore the more danger there is of new— therefore the more danger there is of new variants _ therefore the more danger there is of new variants that _ therefore the more danger there is of new variants that aren't - therefore the more danger there is of new variants that aren't as - of new variants that aren't as benign — of new variants that aren't as benign in _ of new variants that aren't as benign in inverted _ of new variants that aren't as benign in inverted commas i of new variants that aren't as | benign in inverted commas as omicron, _ benign in inverted commas as omicron, and _ benign in inverted commas as omicron, and that— benign in inverted commas as omicron, and that is- benign in inverted commas as. omicron, and that is something i think— omicron, and that is something i think we — omicron, and that is something i think we have _ omicron, and that is something i think we have really _ omicron, and that is something i think we have really taken - omicron, and that is something i think we have really taken our i omicron, and that is something i. think we have really taken our eye off in_ think we have really taken our eye off in the — think we have really taken our eye off in the middle _ think we have really taken our eye off in the middle of— think we have really taken our eye off in the middle of the _ think we have really taken our eye off in the middle of the sort- think we have really taken our eye off in the middle of the sort of- off in the middle of the sort of celebrating _ off in the middle of the sort of celebrating how— off in the middle of the sort of celebrating how we _ off in the middle of the sort of celebrating how we have - off in the middle of the sort of celebrating how we have got l off in the middle of the sort of- celebrating how we have got through this. i- this. i i know this. - i know you this. — i know you spend your time this. i know you spend your time bustin- i know you spend your time busting myths, caitlin, and you are good at it, so you must have watched with interest some of the speeches from the stage this week, and a very big demonstration of anti—vaxxers, people opposed to mandates in washington. listen to robert kennedy junior talking about vaccine mandates and what he thinks of them. the minute they hand you that vaccine passport, every right that you have is transformed into a privilege contingent upon your obedience to arbitrary— contingent upon your obedience to arbitrary government diktats. it arbitrary government diktats. it will— arbitrary government diktats. it will make you a slave! he said _ it will make you a slave! he said some much more offensive things on the stage during that speech. it's a shame to see some of the things he says, actually, when he belongs to that american family thatis he belongs to that american family that is so revered in america. and what he's saying there, there are a lot of people, actually, not necessarily on the hard right who would agree with what he is saying about mandates and the imposition it puts on people? yes. about mandates and the imposition it puts on people?— puts on people? yes, that's right. it's a puts on people? yes, that's right. it's a really _ puts on people? yes, that's right. it's a really interesting _ puts on people? yes, that's right. it's a really interesting debate i it's a really interesting debate right now. it's this individualistic perspective, and the population level protection, protecting the heard perspective, and they are really heating heads right now in the united states. as an epidemiologist, you can imagine that i don't necessarily agree with that. we mandate vaccines. many other types of vaccines and health care in order for types of vaccines and health care in orderfor me to types of vaccines and health care in order for me to work, i need types of vaccines and health care in orderfor me to work, i need lots types of vaccines and health care in order for me to work, i need lots of vaccines, and that's not only to protect myself but to help protect those around me, patients around me, and even my family when i go home. and so i think that we really need to walk away from this individualistic perspective, unlike the other panel members said, we are not going to end this pandemic of one individual is over it. it really has to be a global effort, it has to be a team effort right now. but 'ust listeninu be a team effort right now. but 'ust listening to — be a team effort right now. but 'ust listening to that i be a team effort right now. but 'ust listening to that clip, i be a team effort right now. but 'ust listening to that clip, georgina,i be a team effort right now. butjust listening to that clip, georgina, it l listening to that clip, georgina, it makes me wonder why the french are so compliant with vaccine mandates. we know they are famously vaccine hesitant. and they cherish their freedoms. so why are they so willing to put some of those freedoms to one side and pick up a vaccine mandate? 0bviously, france being france, obviously, france being france, there _ obviously, france being france, there were _ obviously, france being france, there were quite a number of protest. _ there were quite a number of protest, and also in parliament, it was a _ protest, and also in parliament, it was a very. — protest, and also in parliament, it was a very, very rich and heated debates— was a very, very rich and heated debates of— was a very, very rich and heated debates of people saying, when do my freedoms _ debates of people saying, when do my freedoms get to be determined by the state? _ freedoms get to be determined by the state? what it all comes back to this decision of, what is actually in society's _ this decision of, what is actually in society's overall benefit, and you saw — in society's overall benefit, and you saw that actually, by imposing these _ you saw that actually, by imposing these vaccine passports, there was a massive _ these vaccine passports, there was a massive uptake in the number of people _ massive uptake in the number of people in— massive uptake in the number of people in france to get vaccinated. ithink— people in france to get vaccinated. i think it's — people in france to get vaccinated. i think it's now 51 million people who are — i think it's now 51 million people who are fully vaccinated in france. so it _ who are fully vaccinated in france. so it hasn't— who are fully vaccinated in france. so it hasn't gone away and it certainly— so it hasn't gone away and it certainly wasn't an easy decision to pass. _ certainly wasn't an easy decision to pass, but— certainly wasn't an easy decision to pass, but overall, if you look at polls. _ pass, but overall, if you look at polls. the — pass, but overall, if you look at polls, the french are actually quite in favour _ polls, the french are actually quite in favour of — polls, the french are actually quite in favour of it and as long as it allows— in favour of it and as long as it allows them to continue going to the bar into _ allows them to continue going to the bar into their favourite restaurant, in a way— bar into their favourite restaurant, in a way that they see safe, they will continue to support it. why do ou think will continue to support it. why do you think they _ will continue to support it. why do you think they are _ will continue to support it. why do you think they are different - will continue to support it. why do you think they are different on i will continue to support it. why do you think they are different on the i you think they are different on the continent to the uk? it's not really anything we have properly discussed, vaccine mandate here in england, is it? ., ., �* 4' vaccine mandate here in england, is it? ., ., �* ~ �* , vaccine mandate here in england, is it? ., ~ it? no, i don't think it's public o-inion. it? no, i don't think it's public opinion- i— it? no, i don't think it's public opinion. ithink— it? no, i don't think it's public opinion. i think it's _ it? no, i don't think it's public opinion. i think it's politics. i it? no, i don't think it's public opinion. ithink it's politics. i. opinion. i think it's politics. i think— opinion. i think it's politics. i think is— opinion. i think it's politics. i think is the _ opinion. i think it's politics. i think is the fact _ opinion. i think it's politics. i think is the fact that - opinion. i think it's politics. i think is the fact that in - opinion. i think it's politics. i think is the fact that in boris| think is the fact that in boris johnson's _ think is the fact that in boris johnson's parliamentary- think is the fact that in boris. johnson's parliamentary party think is the fact that in boris - johnson's parliamentary party there are a _ johnson's parliamentary party there are a number— johnson's parliamentary party there are a number of— johnson's parliamentary party there are a number of people _ johnson's parliamentary party there are a number of people irreverentlyj are a number of people irreverently oppose _ are a number of people irreverently oppose not — are a number of people irreverently oppose not only— are a number of people irreverently oppose not only to _ are a number of people irreverently oppose not only to vaccine - are a number of people irreverently. oppose not only to vaccine mandates but the _ oppose not only to vaccine mandates but the kind — oppose not only to vaccine mandates but the kind of— oppose not only to vaccine mandates but the kind of restrictions _ oppose not only to vaccine mandates but the kind of restrictions we - oppose not only to vaccine mandates but the kind of restrictions we saw i but the kind of restrictions we saw during _ but the kind of restrictions we saw during lockdown, _ but the kind of restrictions we saw during lockdown, and _ but the kind of restrictions we saw during lockdown, and a _ but the kind of restrictions we saw during lockdown, and a weekend i but the kind of restrictions we saw. during lockdown, and a weekend by minister— during lockdown, and a weekend by minister simply— during lockdown, and a weekend by minister simply can't _ during lockdown, and a weekend by minister simply can't afford - during lockdown, and a weekend by minister simply can't afford to - minister simply can't afford to ignore — minister simply can't afford to ignore those _ minister simply can't afford to ignore those elements - minister simply can't afford to ignore those elements withini minister simply can't afford to i ignore those elements within his parliamentary— ignore those elements within his parliamentary party, _ ignore those elements within his parliamentary party, so - ignore those elements within his parliamentary party, so i- ignore those elements within his parliamentary party, so i think. ignore those elements within his parliamentary party, so i think a | parliamentary party, so i think a lot of— parliamentary party, so i think a lot of that — parliamentary party, so i think a lot of that is _ parliamentary party, so i think a lot of that is down _ parliamentary party, so i think a lot of that is down to _ parliamentary party, so i think a lot of that is down to politics i parliamentary party, so i think a lot of that is down to politics asl lot of that is down to politics as well, _ lot of that is down to politics as well, that— lot of that is down to politics as well, that public— lot of that is down to politics as well, that public opinion - lot of that is down to politics as well, that public opinion seems pretty— well, that public opinion seems pretty relaxed _ well, that public opinion seems pretty relaxed about _ well, that public opinion seems i pretty relaxed about restrictions. all the _ pretty relaxed about restrictions. all the polling _ pretty relaxed about restrictions. all the polling i_ pretty relaxed about restrictions. all the polling i have _ all the polling i have seen indicates _ all the polling i have seen indicates that _ all the polling i have seen indicates that the - all the polling i have seen indicates that the people i all the polling i have seen. indicates that the people of all the polling i have seen- indicates that the people of this country— indicates that the people of this country would _ indicates that the people of this country would be _ indicates that the people of this country would be happy - indicates that the people of this country would be happy to - indicates that the people of this country would be happy to live i indicates that the people of this i country would be happy to live with restrictions — country would be happy to live with restrictions a — country would be happy to live with restrictions a bit _ country would be happy to live with restrictions a bit longer— country would be happy to live with restrictions a bit longer than - country would be happy to live with restrictions a bit longer than the i restrictions a bit longer than the government— restrictions a bit longer than the government is— restrictions a bit longer than the government is making _ restrictions a bit longer than the government is making us. - restrictions a bit longer than the government is making us. so. restrictions a bit longer than the government is making us. so i. restrictions a bit longer than the i government is making us. so i think that the _ government is making us. so i think that the issue — government is making us. so i think that the issue in _ government is making us. so i think that the issue in parliament- government is making us. so i think that the issue in parliament rather. that the issue in parliament rather than the _ that the issue in parliament rather than the country _ that the issue in parliament rather than the country as _ that the issue in parliament rather than the country as a _ that the issue in parliament rather than the country as a whole. - than the country as a whole. a lot — than the country as a whole. a lot of— than the country as a whole. a lot of people _ than the country as a whole. a lot of people would - than the country as a whole. a lot of people would say. than the country as a whole. i a lot of people would say people don't get their vaccines because we keep going into lockdown downs and that does impact our freedoms. caitlin, lovely to see. thanks very much for lending your expertise. a majority of people in the uk think london and the south east will have to pay if we are to level up the country. three in five people believe the capital has to "become less wealthy less prosperous" in order to "reduce inequality between the different regions of the uk". the government earmarked £4.8 billion in the 2021 budget for borisjohnson's flagship project. some of that levelling up fund will be ploughed into infrastructure and the regeneration of town centres and high streets, there will be new local transport projects and money to maintain the uk's culture and heritage. but among 4,000 people who spoke to the think tank more in common, the majority seem to think london the majority seem to think london has had it too good. it's soaking up all the talent, a disproportionate level of investment, and it is time the money was shared out more evenly. let's go to the north of england. joing me now is the chief executive of the east lancashire chamber of commerce, miranda barker. nice to see you again, miranda. i don't think we have spoken since brexit, so it's good to have you back on the programme. what does levelling up mean to you? mean to you ? there mean to you? there is a short—term answer and a long one. the short term answer is what we hope to see on the levelling up what we hope to see on the levelling up funding, investment coming through, the structure, the pounds, can you balance some of those inequalities? but the long—term answer is, it's for the uk's economic good, the whole of the economy. but really it can be assessed when you look at the fact that someone in a deprived area of one of my local boroughs has 15 years less and economic life than someone in a more wealthy area. so really, we need this investment now, but we need it to continue so we really rebalance inequality so that all of the uk is working as hard, as prosperously as it can do. we are going to talk about the attitude and conservative heartlands in the south, but as part of the problem that people don't see what that investment is going to bring back to the exchequer if a place like east lancashire, which is fabulous for tech and aerospace, if it can export its staff much more easily, that all flows back into the coffers, doesn't it?— coffers, doesn't it? that's exactly the -oint. coffers, doesn't it? that's exactly the point- we _ coffers, doesn't it? that's exactly the point. we have _ coffers, doesn't it? that's exactly the point. we have an _ coffers, doesn't it? that's exactly the point. we have an east- the point. we have an east lancashire companies like british aerospace, like rolls—royce aerospace, like rolls—royce aerospace engines, and they are exporting globally and our global competitors at the highest order. if you talk to them and say, what are the disadvantages of your market, they say the transport cost of the infrastructure locally, is hampering our ability to compete. if we can invest in areas and raise that ability to compete for those kind of firms internationally, that is for the benefits of the whole uk and the chancellor of the exchequer. there are certainly tensions within the conservative party, anand, and we have seen within the conservative party, they perceive money going towards the levelling up fund is money being taken away from the pot in the south?— in the south? yeah, they think it's very important _ in the south? yeah, they think it's very important we _ in the south? yeah, they think it's very important we shouldn't - in the south? yeah, they think it's very important we shouldn't see i in the south? yeah, they think it's i very important we shouldn't see this in zero-sum — very important we shouldn't see this in zero—sum terms. _ very important we shouldn't see this in zero—sum terms. there _ very important we shouldn't see this in zero—sum terms. there who - in zero—sum terms. there who complain — in zero—sum terms. there who complain about _ in zero—sum terms. there who complain about london - in zero—sum terms. there who complain about london forgeti in zero—sum terms. there who - complain about london forget about the massive — complain about london forget about the massive contribution— complain about london forget about the massive contribution it - complain about london forget about the massive contribution it makes i complain about london forget about| the massive contribution it makes to the massive contribution it makes to the national— the massive contribution it makes to the national coffers. _ the massive contribution it makes to the national coffers. london - the massive contribution it makes to the national coffers. london pays. the massive contribution it makes to the national coffers. london pays inl the national coffers. london pays in far more _ the national coffers. london pays in far more than — the national coffers. london pays in far more than it _ the national coffers. london pays in far more than it gets— the national coffers. london pays in far more than it gets out. _ the national coffers. london pays in far more than it gets out. i - the national coffers. london pays in far more than it gets out. i also i far more than it gets out. i also think— far more than it gets out. i also think there _ far more than it gets out. i also think there is _ far more than it gets out. i also think there is a _ far more than it gets out. i also think there is a danger - far more than it gets out. i also think there is a danger with i far more than it gets out. i alsoj think there is a danger with this levelling — think there is a danger with this levelling up _ think there is a danger with this levelling up debate _ think there is a danger with this levelling up debate that - think there is a danger with this levelling up debate that we - levelling up debate that we oversimplify. _ levelling up debate that we oversimplify. child - levelling up debate that we oversimplify. child poverty| levelling up debate that we - oversimplify. child poverty levels in london — oversimplify. child poverty levels in london are _ oversimplify. child poverty levels in london are higher, _ oversimplify. child poverty levels in london are higher, i— oversimplify. child poverty levels in london are higher, ithink- oversimplify. child poverty levels in london are higher, i think i- oversimplify. child poverty levelsl in london are higher, i think i was still than — in london are higher, i think i was still than any— in london are higher, i think i was still than any other— in london are higher, i think i was still than any other region - in london are higher, i think i was still than any other region of - in london are higher, i think i was still than any other region of the i still than any other region of the united _ still than any other region of the united kingdom, _ still than any other region of the united kingdom, said _ still than any other region of the united kingdom, said the - still than any other region of the | united kingdom, said the picture still than any other region of the i united kingdom, said the picture is very mixed — united kingdom, said the picture is very mixed i— united kingdom, said the picture is very mixed. ithink— united kingdom, said the picture is very mixed. i think it's— united kingdom, said the picture is very mixed. i think it's absolutely. very mixed. i think it's absolutely the case — very mixed. i think it's absolutely the case that— very mixed. i think it's absolutely the case that there _ very mixed. i think it's absolutely the case that there is _ very mixed. i think it's absolutely the case that there is a _ very mixed. i think it's absolutely the case that there is a need - very mixed. i think it's absolutely the case that there is a need for. the case that there is a need for transport — the case that there is a need for transport investment— the case that there is a need for transport investment in- the case that there is a need for transport investment in other. transport investment in other parts of the _ transport investment in other parts of the country— transport investment in other parts of the country other— transport investment in other parts of the country other than _ transport investment in other parts of the country other than the - of the country other than the south-east _ of the country other than the south—east. the _ of the country other than the south—east. the south—easti of the country other than the i south—east. the south—east has of the country other than the - south—east. the south—east has done relatively— south—east. the south—east has done relatively well — south—east. the south—east has done relatively well with _ south—east. the south—east has done relatively well with projects _ south—east. the south—east has done relatively well with projects like - relatively well with projects like crossrait. — relatively well with projects like crossrail, but _ relatively well with projects like crossrail, but i _ relatively well with projects like crossrail, but i think— relatively well with projects like crossrail, but i think once - relatively well with projects like crossrail, but i think once we i relatively well with projects like i crossrail, but i think once we start thinking _ crossrail, but i think once we start thinking in — crossrail, but i think once we start thinking in these _ crossrail, but i think once we start thinking in these competitive - crossrail, but i think once we start. thinking in these competitive terms, we are _ thinking in these competitive terms, we are slightly— thinking in these competitive terms, we are slightly losing _ thinking in these competitive terms, we are slightly losing track- thinking in these competitive terms, we are slightly losing track of- thinking in these competitive terms, we are slightly losing track of what l we are slightly losing track of what is a far— we are slightly losing track of what is a far more — we are slightly losing track of what is a far more complicated - we are slightly losing track of what| is a far more complicated economic reattty~ _ is a far more complicated economic reality. actually, _ is a far more complicated economic reality. actually, one _ is a far more complicated economic reality. actually, one of— is a far more complicated economic reality. actually, one of the - reality. actually, one of the problems— reality. actually, one of the problems with _ reality. actually, one of the problems with the - reality. actually, one of the problems with the uk - reality. actually, one of the . problems with the uk economy reality. actually, one of the - problems with the uk economy is not that london_ problems with the uk economy is not that london is— problems with the uk economy is not that london is successful, _ problems with the uk economy is not that london is successful, it- problems with the uk economy is not that london is successful, it is- that london is successful, it is that— that london is successful, it is that other— that london is successful, it is that other uk _ that london is successful, it is that other uk cities _ that london is successful, it is that other uk cities like - that london is successful, it is- that other uk cities like birmingham and that other uk cities like birmingham ahd glasgow— that other uk cities like birmingham and glasgow are _ that other uk cities like birmingham and glasgow are not _ that other uk cities like birmingham and glasgow are not as _ that other uk cities like birmingham and glasgow are not as successful . that other uk cities like birmingham | and glasgow are not as successful as their counterparts— and glasgow are not as successful as their counterparts in— and glasgow are not as successful as their counterparts in other— and glasgow are not as successful as their counterparts in other european| their counterparts in other european countries _ their counterparts in other european countries are — their counterparts in other european countries are. we _ their counterparts in other european countries are. we need _ their counterparts in other european countries are. we need to— their counterparts in other european countries are. we need to find - their counterparts in other european countries are. we need to find a - their counterparts in other europeanj countries are. we need to find a way to troost— countries are. we need to find a way to boost productivity— countries are. we need to find a way to boost productivity in _ countries are. we need to find a way to boost productivity in those - to boost productivity in those places — to boost productivity in those places as _ to boost productivity in those places as well _ to boost productivity in those places as well as _ to boost productivity in those places as well as maintaining to boost productivity in those l places as well as maintaining it to boost productivity in those - places as well as maintaining it in london _ london. '- london. - i remember london. — i remember talking to you, miranda, a couple of years ago and you are talking to me about a commuter train that you now have from your area to manchester to leeds. how often do those commuter trains go? not often enough. if you are trying to move a population, working population so that they can work in a whole variety of places across the north of england, you look at europe, they have far wider areas of commuter travel that is possible. if you go into london, you might be commuting for hours. we have cities far closer together than ever having ridiculous lengths of time to transport social workers. we need those trains to move faster, but also we need to effectively move freight, that's why the rail investment was such a tragedy for the local investors but also the uk can be. miranda, since... sorry, since georgina since miranda has brought a map, i want to remind us of the 2017 election. this on the left is where emmanuel macron does very well in those blue areas, and in the orange areas, marine le pen does quite well, and what you see is that actually, he's very strong in the cities, she very strong in rural areas, that is because, let's be blunt, there is a much investment in rural areas. it all gets sucked into the cities. is it similar in france? not quite, i'm afraid. i'd love to draw— not quite, i'm afraid. i'd love to drawa— not quite, i'm afraid. i'd love to draw a distinction a great parallel, but it's— draw a distinction a great parallel, but it's much more nuanced than that _ but it's much more nuanced than that there — but it's much more nuanced than that. there are bits that resemble the uk _ that. there are bits that resemble the uk and — that. there are bits that resemble the uk and bits that are completely different _ the uk and bits that are completely different. macron's main criticism now is— different. macron's main criticism now is that — different. macron's main criticism now is that he has been a president for the _ now is that he has been a president for the rich, — now is that he has been a president for the rich, so if you look at the economic— for the rich, so if you look at the economic performance introduced during _ economic performance introduced during his — economic performance introduced during his term, with their boosting business _ during his term, with their boosting business competitiveness and cutting taxes on _ business competitiveness and cutting taxes on investments and of course, to make _ taxes on investments and of course, to make the — taxes on investments and of course, to make the labour market rules much more _ to make the labour market rules much more flexible, and when you saw the yellow _ more flexible, and when you saw the yellow vest _ more flexible, and when you saw the yellow vest protest, there was a sense _ yellow vest protest, there was a sense that well, he is introducing this tax— sense that well, he is introducing this tax on— sense that well, he is introducing this tax on energy, that will impact those _ this tax on energy, that will impact those people who can't rely on the train _ those people who can't rely on the train to— those people who can't rely on the train to get— those people who can't rely on the train to get them to work in the city, _ train to get them to work in the city, houdini their car, so there was _ city, houdini their car, so there was a _ city, houdini their car, so there was a reat— city, houdini their car, so there was a real question there about swords— was a real question there about swords and where is he, who is he trying _ swords and where is he, who is he trying to— swords and where is he, who is he trying to help? but it's not a clear-cut _ trying to help? but it's not a clear—cut kind of urban versus rural distinction — clear—cut kind of urban versus rural distinction. in fact, if you are looking — distinction. in fact, if you are looking at— distinction. in fact, if you are looking at now a different kind of support, — looking at now a different kind of support, we see the bush, which is like a _ support, we see the bush, which is like a little — support, we see the bush, which is like a little pockets of support for macron, — like a little pockets of support for macron, it — like a little pockets of support for macron, it is really diverse. in some — macron, it is really diverse. in some places, it is very much in the countryside, — some places, it is very much in the countryside, and in other places it is not _ countryside, and in other places it is not so— countryside, and in other places it is not so he — countryside, and in other places it is not. so he is going to have to during _ is not. so he is going to have to during his — is not. so he is going to have to during his campaign took to french people _ during his campaign took to french people and that is not something he has been _ people and that is not something he has been able to do very well, at least _ has been able to do very well, at least in _ has been able to do very well, at least in the — has been able to do very well, at least in the last couple of years. i least in the last couple of years. i know _ least in the last couple of years. i know you — least in the last couple of years. i know you did some work on this, going to your home of wakefield, and then went travelling in europe to see other cities and how they do it, anand. does investment work better when a countries federalised? i think one of the interesting thing is, if— i think one of the interesting thing is, if you _ i think one of the interesting thing is, ifyou take— i think one of the interesting thing is, if you take germany, _ i think one of the interesting thing is, if you take germany, is - i think one of the interesting thing is, if you take germany, is you - i think one of the interesting thing i is, if you take germany, is you have a tot— is, if you take germany, is you have a tot of— is, if you take germany, is you have a tot of realty— is, if you take germany, is you have a lot of really dynamic— is, if you take germany, is you have a lot of really dynamic economic - a lot of really dynamic economic centres. — a lot of really dynamic economic centres, because _ a lot of really dynamic economic centres, because you _ a lot of really dynamic economic centres, because you have - a lot of really dynamic economic centres, because you have a - a lot of really dynamic economic centres, because you have a lot| a lot of really dynamic economic . centres, because you have a lot of very powerful. _ centres, because you have a lot of very powerful, thriving _ centres, because you have a lot of very powerful, thriving cities- centres, because you have a lot of very powerful, thriving cities thati very powerful, thriving cities that control— very powerful, thriving cities that control their— very powerful, thriving cities that control their own— very powerful, thriving cities that control their own budgets, - very powerful, thriving cities thatl control their own budgets, control their own — control their own budgets, control their own finances, _ control their own budgets, control their own finances, to _ control their own budgets, control their own finances, to a _ control their own budgets, control their own finances, to a far- control their own budgets, control| their own finances, to a far greater extent— their own finances, to a far greater extent than— their own finances, to a far greater extent than in— their own finances, to a far greater extent than in a _ their own finances, to a far greater extent than in a more _ their own finances, to a far greater extent than in a more centralised i extent than in a more centralised country. — extent than in a more centralised country. and _ extent than in a more centralised country, and that's _ extent than in a more centralised country, and that's why - extent than in a more centralised country, and that's why one - extent than in a more centralised country, and that's why one of. extent than in a more centralisedl country, and that's why one of the reason _ country, and that's why one of the reason is — country, and that's why one of the reason is that _ country, and that's why one of the reason is that part _ country, and that's why one of the reason is that part of _ country, and that's why one of the reason is that part of the - country, and that's why one of the reason is that part of the levellingj reason is that part of the levelling up reason is that part of the levelling up debate — reason is that part of the levelling up debate involves _ reason is that part of the levelling up debate involves at _ reason is that part of the levelling up debate involves at the - reason is that part of the levelling| up debate involves at the moment rumours. — up debate involves at the moment rumours, because _ up debate involves at the moment rumours, because we _ up debate involves at the moment rumours, because we haven't - up debate involves at the moment| rumours, because we haven't seen up debate involves at the moment - rumours, because we haven't seen the i’ili'it rumours, because we haven't seen the right paper, _ rumours, because we haven't seen the right paper, the — rumours, because we haven't seen the right paper, the stories— rumours, because we haven't seen the right paper, the stories about - rumours, because we haven't seen the right paper, the stories about the - right paper, the stories about the need _ right paper, the stories about the need to— right paper, the stories about the need to decentralise, _ right paper, the stories about the need to decentralise, about - right paper, the stories about the i need to decentralise, about having more _ need to decentralise, about having more powerful— need to decentralise, about having more powerful males. _ need to decentralise, about having more powerful males. the - need to decentralise, about having more powerful males. the thing i need to decentralise, about having. more powerful males. the thing there is not _ more powerful males. the thing there is not to— more powerful males. the thing there is not to create — more powerful males. the thing there is not to create local _ more powerful males. the thing there is not to create local politicians - is not to create local politicians who can — is not to create local politicians who can sort _ is not to create local politicians who can sort of _ is not to create local politicians who can sort of the _ is not to create local politicians who can sort of the stick - is not to create local politicians who can sort of the stick for. is not to create local politicians . who can sort of the stick for things going _ who can sort of the stick for things going wrong, — who can sort of the stick for things going wrong, but— who can sort of the stick for things going wrong, but given _ who can sort of the stick for things going wrong, but given the - who can sort of the stick for things going wrong, but given the power| who can sort of the stick for things i going wrong, but given the power in particular— going wrong, but given the power in particular the — going wrong, but given the power in particular the budgets— going wrong, but given the power in particular the budgets to _ going wrong, but given the power in particular the budgets to allow - going wrong, but given the power in| particular the budgets to allow them to spend _ particular the budgets to allow them to spend the — particular the budgets to allow them to spend the money _ particular the budgets to allow them to spend the money in _ particular the budgets to allow them to spend the money in their- particular the budgets to allow them to spend the money in their areas, l to spend the money in their areas, because _ to spend the money in their areas, because it — to spend the money in their areas, because it tends _ to spend the money in their areas, because it tends to _ to spend the money in their areas, because it tends to be _ to spend the money in their areas, because it tends to be local- to spend the money in their areas, j because it tends to be local people have a _ because it tends to be local people have a better— because it tends to be local people have a better idea _ because it tends to be local people have a better idea of— because it tends to be local people have a better idea of what - because it tends to be local people have a better idea of what their - have a better idea of what their region— have a better idea of what their region needs _ have a better idea of what their region needs and _ have a better idea of what their region needs and people - have a better idea of what their region needs and people based| have a better idea of what their . region needs and people based in london _ region needs and people based in london what— region needs and people based in london. what i— region needs and people based in london. what i would _ region needs and people based in london. what i would say- region needs and people based in london. what i would say is, - region needs and people based in london. what i would say is, one| london. what i would say is, one obvious— london. what i would say is, one obvious similarity— london. what i would say is, one obvious similarity between - london. what i would say is, one| obvious similarity between france london. what i would say is, one - obvious similarity between france uk is the _ obvious similarity between france uk is the sense — obvious similarity between france uk is the sense you _ obvious similarity between france uk is the sense you sometimes - obvious similarity between france uk is the sense you sometimes get - obvious similarity between france uk is the sense you sometimes get that| is the sense you sometimes get that the centre _ is the sense you sometimes get that the centre doesn't— is the sense you sometimes get that the centre doesn't get— is the sense you sometimes get that the centre doesn't get what - is the sense you sometimes get that the centre doesn't get what people i the centre doesn't get what people nrites— the centre doesn't get what people mites away— the centre doesn't get what people mites away from _ the centre doesn't get what people miles away from it _ the centre doesn't get what people miles away from it really _ the centre doesn't get what people miles away from it really want. - the centre doesn't get what people miles away from it really want. sol miles away from it really want. so it's only— miles away from it really want. so it's only been _ miles away from it really want. so it's only been recently _ miles away from it really want. so it's only been recently that - it's only been recently that politicians _ it's only been recently that politicians have _ it's only been recently that politicians have started - it's only been recently that - politicians have started talking about — politicians have started talking about buses, _ politicians have started talking about buses, whereas, - politicians have started talking about buses, whereas, you - politicians have started talking. about buses, whereas, you know, where _ about buses, whereas, you know, where im — about buses, whereas, you know, where im from. _ about buses, whereas, you know, where i'm from, bosses— about buses, whereas, you know, where i'm from, bosses are - where i'm from, bosses are fundamental— where i'm from, bosses are fundamental for— where i'm from, bosses are fundamental for the - where i'm from, bosses are fundamental for the abilityi where i'm from, bosses are i fundamental for the ability of people — fundamental for the ability of people to _ fundamental for the ability of people to commute - fundamental for the ability of people to commute to - fundamental for the ability of people to commute to work. i people to commute to work. potiticians _ people to commute to work. politicians talk _ people to commute to work. politicians talk a _ people to commute to work. politicians talk a lot - people to commute to work. politicians talk a lot about. people to commute to work. - politicians talk a lot about glamour projects _ politicians talk a lot about glamour projects like — politicians talk a lot about glamour projects like intercity _ politicians talk a lot about glamour projects like intercity rail, - projects like intercity rail, whereas _ projects like intercity rail, whereas actually, - projects like intercity rail, whereas actually, one - projects like intercity rail, whereas actually, one of| projects like intercity rail, i whereas actually, one of the projects like intercity rail, - whereas actually, one of the issues in the _ whereas actually, one of the issues in the north— whereas actually, one of the issues in the north of— whereas actually, one of the issues in the north of england _ whereas actually, one of the issues in the north of england is - whereas actually, one of the issues in the north of england is the - in the north of england is the dilapidated _ in the north of england is the dilapidated pacer— in the north of england is the dilapidated pacer trains- in the north of england is the l dilapidated pacer trains making their— dilapidated pacer trains making their way— dilapidated pacer trains making their way from _ dilapidated pacer trains making their way from towns _ dilapidated pacer trains making their way from towns into - dilapidated pacer trains making their way from towns into cities dilapidated pacer trains making - their way from towns into cities and breaking _ their way from towns into cities and breaking down— their way from towns into cities and breaking down all— their way from towns into cities and breaking down all the _ their way from towns into cities and breaking down all the time. - their way from towns into cities and breaking down all the time. so - their way from towns into cities and l breaking down all the time. so there is this— breaking down all the time. so there is this sense, — breaking down all the time. so there is this sense, i— breaking down all the time. so there is this sense, i think, _ breaking down all the time. so there is this sense, i think, sometimes- is this sense, i think, sometimes that the — is this sense, i think, sometimes that the national— is this sense, i think, sometimes that the national debate - is this sense, i think, sometimes that the national debate is - that the national debate is sometimes _ that the national debate is sometimes divorced - that the national debate is sometimes divorced from i that the national debate is i sometimes divorced from the that the national debate is - sometimes divorced from the lived reality— sometimes divorced from the lived reality of— sometimes divorced from the lived reality of people _ sometimes divorced from the lived reality of people out _ sometimes divorced from the lived reality of people out on _ sometimes divorced from the lived reality of people out on what - sometimes divorced from the lived reality of people out on what we i reality of people out on what we call the — reality of people out on what we call the provinces. _ reality of people out on what we call the provinces.— reality of people out on what we call the provinces. yes, if you want an example — call the provinces. yes, if you want an example of _ call the provinces. yes, if you want an example of that, _ call the provinces. yes, if you want an example of that, the _ call the provinces. yes, if you wantj an example of that, the newspaper parisien was called aujourdhui in toulouse because they did not want to be like paris. miranda, thank you for coming on again. coming up... the man he went to extraordinary lengths to talk to his grandmother. changes to the highway code will be introduced this week. pedestrians and cyclists, those most at risk of a collision, are being given benefits. here is our reporter. screaming. oh, my god! captured on camera. collisions. close shaves. and scary moments across the country. horn blasts. the new rules as you should lose your left hand to open the driver side door, and that forces you to open the door and check your blind spot and see if anyone is there. cyclists in some situations are being encouraged to position themselves in the middle of their lane and to cycle to abreast. motorists are being told to give them more than four feet of clearance when they overtake. jamie has multiple sclerosis and relies on pedal power to get around. some places it's just really important that you do take what is called primary position. in some places on some roads on some junctions you need to be there when you can be seen and it's really important that this is codified in these new changes so that everyone is aware that people are therefore a reason. ., , ., , reason. the rolls outside road 'unctions reason. the rolls outside road junctions like _ reason. the rolls outside road junctions like this _ reason. the rolls outside road junctions like this are - reason. the rolls outside road| junctions like this are changing too. at the moment is if i'm crossing the road only turning in has to give way to me. but from saturday, if i'm just standing here, looking as though i'm about to cross, any vehicle turning in would to give me priority. there will be an awareness campaign about the highway code changes, but critics say thatis that is too late, and not enough people know what is going to be different. danny savage, bbc news. how many people watching get a phone of an evening, and then spend a fair amount of time sorting out their parents�* ipad or mobile phone? and maybe more than the odd night. i say this with the utmost respect to our older viewers watching. but let's face it, it's not easy talking to your grandma through whatsapp, trying to get her to download a jpeg. so a spanish engineer has invented a grannygram machine that prints out whatsapp messages and photos to make it easierfor his technophobic grandmother to keep up to date during quarantine. i love the story. it has gone viral. this has got one of those receipt printers on it and it says he has got a raspberry minicomputer and there are some card and it relies on a pot which is connected to a social messaging app telegram and its sends a command to print. i don't understand any of that. are you a technophobe, georgina? would something like that work for you? i something like that work for you? i would love it, because i am not great with technology, but i think thatis great with technology, but i think that is such a feel—good story and when i think back to lockdown and all the people who were not able to see their families, who didn't even have access to a tablet or phone, being able to say, here is the tablet, you need to use it, just watch out for the sort of printer, i think it would be a lovely way to touch many people and i really admire people who can come up with no such experiences. what admire people who can come up with no such experiences.— admire people who can come up with no such experiences. what about you, and and? i no such experiences. what about you, and and? i am — no such experiences. what about you, and and? i am the _ no such experiences. what about you, and and? i am the person _ no such experiences. what about you, and and? i am the person who - no such experiences. what about you, and and? i am the person who always| and and? i am the person who always insist on the — and and? i am the person who always insist on the office _ and and? i am the person who always insist on the office that _ and and? i am the person who always insist on the office that everyone - insist on the office that everyone insist— insist on the office that everyone insist that — insist on the office that everyone insist that everything that they want _ insist that everything that they want me — insist that everything that they want me to read has to be printed anyway— want me to read has to be printed anyway because it is easier to read on paper— anyway because it is easier to read on paper than anyway because it is easier to read on paperthan on anyway because it is easier to read on paper than on a screen, so i am with— on paper than on a screen, so i am withthe— on paper than on a screen, so i am with the grannies on this. it is long _ with the grannies on this. it is long overdue. in fact, going backwards in time and printing everything would be a step forwards. my wife _ everything would be a step forwards. my wife does this every night with her mum and it is always about the ipad and it takes me back to my grandma when we bought her a computer and then wished for the next few years we never had. the microsoft updates on it were the worst. that spinning circle of death. not good. thank you so much for being with us this evening. thank you very much. thank you very much. thank you very much. thank you very much for your time. during the same time tomorrow. hello there. there is a week in the north—west bringing some patchy rain and drizzle across western areas of scotland. eastern scotland see some sunshine and some sunshine in the north—west of the england as well. cold there where we have had this blanket of low cloud across other parts of england and way is. temperatures are no better than 45 degrees in some places. that card is still around as we head further into the night. we do have some clearer skies in northern england especially towards the east of the pennines. some patchy fog is likely mostly through the vale of york and it could be a touch of frost as well but even with that cloud across southern parts of england and way also to is not particularly warm overnight. the mildest weather remains in weather remains in scotland and northern ireland. that fog will do through the morning as the breeze picks up a little bit. some sunshine to the east of the pennines. the best of the sun safer eastern scotland and developing again and northern ireland. the head of another weather from bringing some weather towards the highlands later in the day. otherwise, dry weather around. a lot of cloud, temperature similar to today. again, if you are underneath at low cloud misty weather in england and wales and will feel very well at all. there is a high—pressure, weak weather front in the north, that fades away, doesn't bring any significant rain, next to weather system comes in from the atlantic, head of it, there could be a bit of a chilly start on wednesday, then the breeze picks up it will stir things up hopefully lift some of that low cloud and give us some sunshine in england and wales. band of wet weather comes into the north—west yet again where the winds will be touching gale force. drawing on some mild air, temperatures everywhere should be a degree or to hire and we could make a 9 degrees across england and way is. some windy weather transfers into the northern isles overnight. then that weather front moves its way southwards but as you can see, it's not much rain on it. most of that rainjust get it's not much rain on it. most of that rain just get squeezed out. a band of rain clears away from southern areas on thursday. what little rain there is moves through and then some sunshine following on behind a few showers may be in the north—west. the north—westerly wind arrives on thursday, but it is not particularly cold, temperatures 8-12. particularly cold, temperatures 8—12. essentially, this dryjanuary continues over the week ahead. now from the north—west of the uk, many places are going to be dry, hopefully we will see some tonight at ten... downing street admits that staff gathered inside during the first lockdown to wish borisjohnson a happy birthday. in the cabinet room at number ten it's claimed up to 30 people were present at a time when indoor gatherings of more than two people were banned. # happy birthday to you... it all happened just a few hours after this school visit and the latest revelations have been seized on by colleagues and critics. this is yet more evidence that we have got a prime minister to be who believes that the rules he made don't apply to him. this is a small group of staff who brought— this is a small group of staff who brought a — this is a small group of staff who brought a birthday _ this is a small group of staff who brought a birthday cake - this is a small group of staff who brought a birthday cake in - this is a small group of staff who brought a birthday cake in at - this is a small group of staff who brought a birthday cake in at the| brought a birthday cake in at the end of— brought a birthday cake in at the end of the — brought a birthday cake in at the end of the day— brought a birthday cake in at the end of the day and _ brought a birthday cake in at the end of the day and i— brought a birthday cake in at the end of the day and i don't- brought a birthday cake in at the end of the day and i don't thinki

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