Transcripts For BBCNEWS Newscast 20240709

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some of them, not very many but some have been more visible in the last few days but things are very, very tough indeed for downing street and there have been so many big jawdropping moments this week starting at the beginning. we finally saw borisjohnson emerge from his self—imposed isolation. boris johnson emerge from his self-imposed isolation.- self-imposed isolation. what happened — self-imposed isolation. what happened was _ self-imposed isolation. what happened was a _ self-imposed isolation. what happened was a member - self-imposed isolation. what happened was a member of i self—imposed isolation. what happened was a member of his family tested positive for covid and he was following the government advice incredibly strictly which is to limit your social contact, which means for him he could limit his contact with the media while dealing with the media while dealing with this big unfolding story. but then along comes an encounter with sky news, where one of us on behalf of all of the broadcasters asked a couple of questions of a minister or a prime minister, a convention used to dictate that these things are relatively short but now we are into something of a febrile moment, there is another westminster word. was at 16 minutes, something like that? it at 16 minutes, something like that? , ., ., that? it is fascinating that boris johnson _ that? it is fascinating that boris johnson stood - that? it is fascinating that boris johnson stood there i that? it is fascinating that. boris johnson stood there for boris johnson stood there for all that— boris johnson stood there for all that time and some people wondered quietly to themselves, if he had — wondered quietly to themselves, if he had been suggested that he look— if he had been suggested that he look sorry, very, very sorry and _ he look sorry, very, very sorry and really. _ he look sorry, very, very sorry and really, very, very sorry for what _ and really, very, very sorry for what had been going on but we have — for what had been going on but we have listed how it unfolded? nobody — we have listed how it unfolded? nobody said to me this is an event that is against the rules, that is in breach of what we are asking everybody else to do, should not go ahead. ., , , ahead. two boozy parties held in the garden _ ahead. two boozy parties held in the garden the _ two boozy parties held in the garden, in the building of number 10, the night before prince philip's funeral, when the country was in national morning. was having to apologise to the queen about those parties, the night before she put her husband of over 70 years, she laid him to rest, was that the moment of shame for you? i deeply and bitterly- regret that that happened. now, the reason borisjohnson was talking like that was because dominic cummings, his former adviser, had accused him of knowing in advance that this was an event that could have broken the rules. then it became a story of, does the prime minister even know what the rules are, when he made them up himself? those parties yes, and a question about whether or not he was telling the truth when he said, oh, i thought it was a work event. nobody told me that it might be a party, so it goes to his truthfulness, but also a lot of people would have been shouting at the telly, going, hang on a minute, nobody told me it was against the rules, when he was setting the rules and he was giving press conferences every day announcing to people what the rules were. but, let's see what happens, there is a lot of work going into this, there is a spectrum of scenarios and some of borisjohnson's defenders and allies said, just remember, he had just had covid, a busy situation, isn't it possible and actually your civil servants, if you are a very busy minister, just say, next in your diary, go and do this and you will go, oh, right, 0k and off i go. but anyway, a huge amount to get through. then we got to wednesday and whenjo coburn was presenting politics live on wednesday before prime minister's questions, she thought the most exciting thing that was going to happen was about the pork pie plot, which we have already discussed, and then this happened. let me just show you this tweet from the bbc's political- editor, laura kuenssberg, l hearing christian wakefield, the bury mp is defecting to the labour party, - just as the prime minister. leaves number 10 for pmq's. well, that is quite incredible. jeering. and what a moment of drama. absolutely. this happens so rarely, doesn't it? i was talking to a labour shadow cabinet minister today and i said, what are you up to today? they said, looking for defectors. and walking around with a massive smile on their face, because what a coup! totally. had not happened since 2007. a massive coup for the labour party, no question about that, they had been plotting it for months, christian wakeford, and it is very rare and you could hear there, how happy the labour party were in the house of commons and definitely, for the public, it is a bad look, isn't it, someone leaves your party, because they think the other side are now better. except in the narrative of borisjohnson, it ended up weirdly being good! well, i mean, it depends who you ask, but what it did do, it gave unhappy conservative mps, someone else to hate for the afternoon, because i am not being harsh, and particularly about mr wakeford, but politicians hate a defector. remember how tribal politics often is, how people feel it in their heart and in their gut and it is notjust that you do not like us any more, it is that you are going to go and join the other side, and it is seen a real betrayal and therefore, you did see, at least for a few hours, tory mps going, well, that is not the way and also looking and thinking, who are we helping here? are we helping ourselves or helping the labour party? that does not mean that all the woes disappeared, far from it. and then the world's most exciting pmq's got even more exciting, when david davis entered the stage and then quoted an mp from the second world war, who was actually quoting cromwell. i expect my leaders - to shoulder the responsibility for the actions they take. yesterday, he did i the opposite of that. so, iwould remind him. of a quotation altogether all—too—familiar to him, of leo amery to neville | chamberlain, you have sat| there too long for the good you have done. in the name of god, go. and that a student of politics, borisjohnson, said he was not familiar with that quote. that might have been a way of trying to avoid answering the question, but there we are. it was really electric. you can hear one mp going there, shut up! sighs, people are gasping at the end of the session, who wants to do a lincolnshire accent? it is against my very being. what a day! there we go. the speaker at the end, sotto voce, what a day! amazing. and could there have been a better phrase for it, absolutely not. it has been crazy. i suppose the question is, does it matter? it was a moment of huge drama and he is a guy who was a minister back when john major was prime minister, who was a brexit secretary a couple of years ago and, you know, what a thing. but does he take people with him, does he persuade others? i am not sure he takes that many people with him, david davis, but he is a prominent person, so he creates headlines, creates an impression, it tells us that this is far from just fans of pork pies and everything else in 2019, it is a generational problem across the tory party. and also it is i think something that has been building and we have seen really profoundly this week, downing street is not in control of the house of commons, they are not, they are just not. they are not in control of the parliamentary party and they don't know what is coming. that is, with an 80 seat majority, that is remarkable and it is really, really serious and i think they have got to find ways of getting that control back or they are in very deep trouble. and then we got to today, thursday, when we were recording this episode of newscast and ten o'clock meant it was time for the public administration and constitutional affairs committee. already in your diary. of course it was, there was an alert flashing on adam's phone. i mean, some nights i can't sleep because i am just so excited to know what is going to happen there. and also because i have to get up at 4:30am every morning as well. and, so it was worth tuning into today for everyone because the chairman, william bragg, who is quite critical of borisjohnson, became very critical... conservative mp, though. yes, of one of the tactics often used around westminster, by the people that instill the party discipline, the whips, and this is how he kind of lifted the lid on that kind of process. the intimidation of a member of | parliament is a serious matter. | moreover, reports of - which i am aware, would seem to constitute blackmail. as such, it would be my general advice to colleagues to report. these matters to the speaker of the house of commons - and the commissioner- of the metropolitan police. goodness me! big, big words, though. big words. police, blackmail. i thought you were going to say that wragg lost his rag, but she didn't. so, i got to say it. yeah, there are very difficult conversations, very tough conversations and yes, we all know, if you're in westminster, we all know that sometimes party whips, and i am not singling out any political party in particular, do make, cajole, strong—arm, twist arms, persuade and sometimes dangle, what some people michael warnings, what some people might call threats, often enticements, vote with us in this tricky time, i know it is very difficult, maybe there will be a place for you as minister for paperclips next time around... to call it intimidation and blackmail, blimey, that is a very incendiary claim to make. other people have you know, it is complete nonsense, basically overblowing the situation, but it is interesting because again it shows us, even though he is a critic of boris johnson, it shows us that downing street cannot control what their mps are up to. i think there is something wider as well, a bit of a generational thing there as well, people going, do you know what, actually, we don't like some of this behaviour that we have seen. i have been talking to mps in the �*19 intake about that this week and it also shows you that that generation is not afraid of the centre. yes. now, chris, i'm afraid you're going to have to be led out of the studio and go to your socially distanced news cupboard of news. i will return to the socially distanced boutique of news. it is not because we do not like you, it is because someone else coming in. i shall stand aside. i shall defect. i'm crossing the floor. and chris is going to be room place by simon clark, chief secretary to the treasury, hello! hello. get your giant headphones on. absolutely. nice to have a government minister actually allowed in the studio. both are allowed to be on the airwaves and also allowed to be on here, because plan b has disappeared. the one thing this week- as they are trying to get much clearer action on that, so good to be here. i —— much closer back to normal. there is so much we can talk to you about. first of all, we were just wondering, what is it like being the government minister sent out to defend lots of controversial stuff that maybe you did not even have anything to do with? look, it is always good i to be out there, speaking for the government and making the case for what we are doing. j no one would deny, this has. been a challenging week and, you know, for all the reasons which we all know, _ it is important that we get through to next week- and sue gray's much- anticipated report and that will allow us to have - a discussion based on all the facts, which is i think. what everyone wants now, that we get this report, we get the perspectivel of everyone on what happened, the full context and then based | on that, the pm will- come back to parliament and give a statement. what is it like when you are the minister at the end of the phone and you see who is calling and you think, oh, does it have to be me? because sometimes, and credit to you for coming on, because sometimes it is the case at moments of political risk, for governments, quite often lots of ministers do not want to come out and defend and sometimes, perhaps not this way, have you ever thought, does it really have to be me? laura, an evening with you, chris... | i needed no second invitation. look, obviously there - are ministers out all over the place making the case, you know, in good times. and in bad. we all recognise that, - you know, what has happened in downing street isn't right. that's why the prime - minister has apologised. we mustn't lose sight. of the fact he has taken responsibility for- the overarching nature of what happened, it's the specific nature - of the stuff that we are going - to get into when sue gray comes forward. but it is absolutely vital, - as well, that we also remind the public about the stuff that is going right. - this is a week where we've been able to make the move back- to plan a precisely- because of the success of the prime minister's - decisions both on the vaccine booster roll—out, but also not going for a tougher lockdownl prior to christmas with omicron. - do you admit, though, evenjust a little bit, that part of the problem here has been how all of this is handled? because you're quite right, there are huge, important, dominating issues in the world, but the thing is that your mps and many members of the public have got really upset about this ongoing saga, and you admit, evenjust a little bit, and i know you're very loyal, but it should have been handled better and quicker and then you wouldn't have to be talking about it tonight. i think you can be absolutely loyal and admit that this, i you know, has been really difficult and frustrating. i the prime minister himself. would say that he looks back on this in retrospect _ and wishes it had been handled differently, and that goes i right back to the decisions, you know, back in may 2021. look, it's one of those issues where we are now absolutelyj determined to bring everything to light. i some of this detail is stuff no one was even fully aware of, i you know, candidly there's a whole range of differentl perspectives. some people were, weren't they? well, indeed, but, for example, what happened, chris, - when the prime minister was away in may 2021, l he wasn't even in downing street that night, - he was at chequers. stuff like that. you are referring to the night before the duke of edinburgh's funeral. indeed, which was, i think, in many ways, the most- frustrating incident of all of this. - that happened in his absence. there is no reasonable way- he could have known about that. well, his son's swing got broken. well, apparently he wasn't, no, i don't know... - did they run out and replace the swing before the boss got back? there could be a whole saga around that. - the point stands, he wasn't aware. | in good faith. it is important that we, - you know, this is one of a huge number of things that i have been going on and, as i said, the only commitment i can give to viewers tonight. is sue gray's report will be a definitive report. - it is bringing together everybody's account l of what happened. will we see the whole thing in full? i don't know. so, we might not? the commitment is to bring the findings to parliament, | and i fully anticipate total candour in that sphere, . and the prime minister is then going to come and give - a statement, as well. i'm not involved in— the immediate circumstances of its, you know, dissemination. . the whole spirit now is ofjust, you know, let the sun shine in and then answer the questions that i flow from that. you talked there about the most frustrating incident, which seems a very focused on, sort of, government survival and pr rather than the outrage that people feel about some of these incidents that were going on when people were out on furlough, full to work from home, couldn't send their kids to school, and you call it a most frustrating incident. it is frustrating. i mean, frustrating for me because i recognise - the enormous strength of feeling this evokes. | i find it frustrating - that this has happened. it is profoundly. frustrating that... is it not more than frustrating? i like to think i'm a fairly understated man, chris. j i recognise fully the i angerand the upset... i bet frustrating isn't the word that people in your e—mail inbox are using when they are offering a view to you as to what has gone on. it's important to... what, 50-50? half of people say it's great and the other half don't? actually, over the last- couple of days it has been about 50—50, people saying they continue to believe - in this prime minister, i that they think this needs to be, you know, that he needs to be supported in what is - unquestionablyj a difficult time. no one is denying, and i'm certainly not sitting - and denying, chris, - that there is real public anger and upset. rightly so. what happened in downing . street, as the prime minister himself said, was wrong. i make no— qualification to that. it was wrong. is it wrong, though, too, that some conservative mps who had concerns about this, who have spoken out, is it wrong that they feel they've been intimidated? and pressurised into toeing the party line. is that wrong? well, i would absolutely say| that, you know, intimidation in any walk of life would be wrong. i i think in regards to the very. specific allegations being made by will wragg today. from pacac! indeed. marvellous acronym. look, all i would sayl is i do not recognise, as a government minister, - and as indeed the government minister responsible for public spending, | that account of how- government ever operates. not least because that's| never how i or any of my associates would behave. but also because the civil- service, of course, when i make a spending allegation i do so on the basis of formall submissions by the civil. service about, you know, how x policy should be i delivered, and that goes to y location. it simply wouldn't be possible for me to say to my civil- servants, well, strike that- name out because they haven't voted the right way. the system wouldn't allow it. whilst i'm not in any way- making light of the allegation. i think if there is specific - evidence it should be brought forward. in practice, i don't . think it's a threat that could ever be realised. that's different from the threat being made, though, isuppose, and, like, anyone who has spent any time in westminster knows that it is just one of those, sort of common legends that when things get tough all sorts of enticements, bribes, are offered or withdrawn. you must have just as a backbench mp of a few years standing have heard this legend, too. well, the whips have a job to do in both governmentl and opposition side, and we shouldn't be| naive about this. theirjob is to make - sure government business is delivered and that. a mixture of tactics that are legitimately involved - in that work, and i don't think that we would be being honest if we didn't pretend that can i in times involves some robust conversations. about what we were elected to deliver. i that's the nature of delivering on a collective policy- programme to which mps, when you are elected - for a particular party, should sign up. - that is obviously very - different from public spending being brought into that conversation. j as i say, i have never known that happen. i it certainly never| happened to me. nor have i known of any colleague ever going. about doing it in that way. maybe you've just been a very good boy. i am a very good boy, i hasten to add. - but, you know, quite seriously, it is not a tactic. _ it is not one we would ever, you know, put in motion, i nor with the civil service allow it. i simon, can wejust play you, then, this clip from christian wakeford today. now, the important context, until yesterday he was a conservative mp, things have obviously gone wrong and his relationship with the conservative party, for whatever reason, he crossed the floor in dramatic fashion to the labour party. he was asked about some of his reasoning today and he was asked about his experiences of some of it. i want you to hear this clip. you might not have heard it earlier today. let's have a listen. i was threatened that i would not get the school for radcliffe if i did not vote one particular way. this is a town that's not had a high school for the best part of ten years. how would you feel when holding back a regeneration of a town for a vote? it did not sit comfortably. that was when i was starting to question my place, where it was, and ultimately to where i am now. now, you say you've never heard of it happen, and it couldn't happen in the system. as a treasury minister, as a conservative minister, listening to that allegation there, and i know he has crossed the floor and he is no longer a tory mp, but listening to that where we've got somebody on the record saying very clearly that money resources for his constituents was dangled in front of him as an enticement to tow the party line in a vote. what do you think of that? i mean, look, all i can say is, you know, if christian wants. to give an account of that| to the commons speaker, i mean that would be i the appropriate forum, i think, down which to proceed. obviously any of these allegations need to be| evidenced, really. that's the long - and the short of it. do you believe him? i would need to see - the basis of the evidence on which he makes that allegation. - but with that kind of thing be acceptable, i suppose. clearly i do not think- that is an appropriate way for westminster to behave. we've seen what sajid javid, the health secretary, said on the today programme this morning. we've seen what steve baker, your colleague on the conservative backbenches has said. that this ultimately is about the culture of the government that you are a part of and boris johnson leads. whether it is the allegations from william wragg or plenty of what we've heard about, not just the parties during the various covid restrictions, but also downing street's response to them, leaves many a bad taste in the mouth about how this government conducts itself. has it damaged the image of politics? i think anything like this i is corrosive, and, as i say, i think there is a depth - of understanding and upset, which is entirelyj understandable. we think about when we saw, l you know, for example various high—profile footballers - misbehaving during lockdown. these sorts of things. it reminds you. people who have... they aren't governing the country, though, and they didn't make the rules. no, but people who have a high profile, who are very much, - you know, in the spotlight, - do have a double responsibility to live up to the laws of the land. - i know the prime minister is genuinely and sincerely sorry for what happened - and i do not doubt the depth of that apology. he is mortified that this has happened on his watch. - i think that has come across, actually, in his appearances. in the commons, and certainly in his private conversations - with me. let's move this conversation onto your dayjob as chief secretary to the treasury. a quickfire quiz of various things that are around at the moment. so, the health and social care levy comes in permanently in 2023, but before that there is a temporary increase to national insurance on everybody. is that temporary increase for that one year definitely, definitely going to go ahead? yes. we are committed to that. the reason for that is we've - got this enormous nhs backlog, as well as the long—standing i problems we all know we face with social care - in an ageing society. you simply cannot fund the kind | of increase that we are looking | to deliver, 12 billion _ for the nhs, and 5 billion over the next three years for social care. - you can't do that - without raising taxes. as a conservative, - i fundamentally believe in a low tax high growth - economy, but i also believe in balancing public finances. we've spent the thick end of 400 billion on our- covid response. it's a big old cheque. if you want to be honest. with the public, and i hope the fundamental hallmark- of the conservative government is always economic honesty i about the choices sometimes entailed in delivering public services... - 0k. economic with honesty so your critics say. so you've said very clearly you're not going to cancel the national insurance rise. that's happening. let's go for economic honesty on something else. labour is calling for a blanket cut in vat on energy bills to help people with the cost. some of your colleagues quite fancy that because it is something some of them claim they can now do because we aren't in the eu any more. economic honesty, is that remotely a possibility in treasury, or is that as ruled out as getting rid of the national insurance rise? well, we are always l monitoring this issue. that's why. .. ooh! no, no, let me insert various caveats here. j chuckles panto season. a blanket cut to vat - is not a very targeted way of helping people. true, yes. much of the benefit, - if we are going to be really techie, a distributional- analysis would show that this benefits people . with larger homes. yes, and you would get it, we would get it, everybody would get it. we are always focused - on making the most effective interventions to support i households with the cost of living. that's why, for example, we've made the cut to i the universal credit i rate, which is targeted at the lowest earning families. that's why we are increasing the national living wage. - but on this specific point? on this specific point, look, . the chancellor keeps all taxes and benefits under review. we are grateful to you for coming into night and making this happen. we are grateful to you for coming in tonight and making this happen. thank you, simon. thank you very much for talking to us about so many issues. and isn't it good, even though chris was in a cupboard, he still got to ask lots of questions. the miracles - of modern technology. that's all for this episode of newscast. thanks very much for watching or listening, and if you want to listen to us every day on bbc sounds you can subscribe, and i think tomorrow i'm going to interview armando iannucci. ooh! i bet you've never watched any of his work! chuckles what can i say? thisjob, sometimes you don't need to. l reality tv for westminster inhabitants. goodbye, everyone. bye! hello again. thursday was a fairly chilly day, temperatures about 2—3 degrees below average forjanuary, but for many of us, we had sparkling blue skies for most of the day. and what a beautiful weather watcher picture this is from buttermere in cumbria. slightly less beautiful were the skies in east anglia. we had a shower stream coming down the north sea. and for norfolk and, to a degree, suffolk, quite a few showers here, but they are fading away. right now, as the winds start to change direction to more of a northwesterly, that shoves the showers over towards belgium and the netherlands. otherwise we've got clear skies for many areas. and it's a cold one for sure, temperatures at their lowest, about —6, —7. southern wales, central, southern england the coldest spots. might be very cold and frosty, but it should be bright with plenty of sunshine to start the day for most of us. even this cloudier zone in the west will be prone to a few breaks during the morning, so you could see a few glimpses of sunshine for a time. cloud tends to thicken through the afternoon. could threaten an odd patch of light rain or drizzle for the western isles and highlands. 8—9 degrees in the west. otherwise, temperatures at 6s and 7s. now, friday night is where we keep those clear skies. again, temperatures will fall away to give us some patches of frost. it is going to be patchy rather than extensive, so not as overall cold across england and wales. and the thickest cloud across northwest scotland, temperatures about 8 overnight in stornoway. this weekend, the tendency is for the weather to turn a little bit cloudier. there will be a lot of drier weather to come. some sunny spells, but we could have a bit of frost and fog to contend with as well. essentially, as we go through the weekend, high pressure's still there. we're starting to get this milder air recirculating back around the high and particularly moving into northern areas of the uk, where we'll see the highest temperatures, particularly for northern scotland. saturday, mist and fog could be an issue first thing in the morning. otherwise, we've got some patchy of frost, but then we'll have some sunshine to compensate across central and eastern areas. in the west, it continues to turn milder, but that's because we've got extensive cloud, thick enough to bring some rain to western scotland, where temperatures reach 11 celsius. second half of the weekend, again, we could go into sunday with some fog patches around. some of it could be quite dense, a few frost patches as well. overall, a little bit more in the way of cloud for most areas, with some mist and hill fog patches around the coasts, a bit of drizzle for western scotland, where it'll continue to be particularly mild. that's your weather. welcome to bbc news. i'm nuala mcgovern. our top stories. new images of the russian military build—up, as the us warns any incursion into ukraine will be met with a tough response. there is no doubt — let there be no doubt at all — that if putin makes this choice, russia will pay a heavy price. aid planes finally arrive in tonga after a volcanic eruption and tsunami left the country in desperate need of supplies. we'll bring you the latest. untouched by climate change, a rare deep water coral reef is discovered off the coast of tahiti. and adele breaks down, as she postpones her las vegas residency the day before her first show. i'm so sorry, but... ..my show ain't ready. it's been impossible, we have been up against

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