now on bbc news, it's our documentary cold case: the tunbridge wells murders. and a warning that viewers may find some of the details distressing. this is the story of two young women. ., , ~ women. people were thinking this is a serial _ women. people were thinking this is a serial killer. - women. people were thinking this is a serial killer. their - this is a serial killer. their murders _ this is a serial killer. their murders in _ this is a serial killer. their murders in a _ this is a serial killer. their murders in a quiet - this is a serial killer. their murders in a quiet town i this is a serial killer. their murders in a quiet town in this is a serial killer. their - murders in a quiet town in the 19805. ., , ., ., ., 19805. there was quite a lot of blood around _ 19805. there was quite a lot of blood around wendy's - 19805. there was quite a lot of blood around wendy's had - 19805. there was quite a lot of. blood around wendy's had come around the bedding. it blood around wendy's had come around the bedding.— around the bedding. it became a- arent around the bedding. it became apparent that _ around the bedding. it became apparent that caroline - around the bedding. it became apparent that caroline hadn't l apparent that caroline hadn't simply— apparent that caroline hadn't simplyjust disappeared. an simply just disappeared. in extraordinary simplyjust disappeared. in extraordinary investigation which brought the killer to justice. in which brought the killer to 'ustice. ii' ' which brought the killer to 'ustice. ::' ' ., which brought the killer to 'ustice. ii" ., ., justice. in 2019, we had a breakthrough. _ justice. in 2019, we had a breakthrough. bingo. - justice. in 2019, we had a breakthrough. bingo. it. justice. in 2019, we had a - breakthrough. bingo. it looks like he's got _ breakthrough. bingo. it looks like he's got some _ breakthrough. bingo. it looks like he's got some hard - breakthrough. bingo. it looks| like he's got some hard drives in there. — like he's got some hard drives in there. i_ like he's got some hard drives in there, i would say. an investigation _ in there, i would say. in investigation which uncovered the darkest secrets.— investigation which uncovered the darkest secrets. looking at this - excuse — the darkest secrets. looking at this - excuse me. _ the darkest secrets. looking at this - excuse me. oh - the darkest secrets. looking at this - excuse me. oh man - the darkest secrets. looking at this - excuse me. oh man whoj this - excuse me. oh man who icked this - excuse me. oh man who picked his _ this - excuse me. oh man who picked his victims _ this - excuse me. oh man who picked his victims from - this - excuse me. oh man who picked his victims from among | picked his victims from among the dead. , , ., ., the dead. every single one of us has that — the dead. every single one of us has that same _ the dead. every single one of us has that same wish - the dead. every single one of us has that same wish for- us has that same wish for someone we have lost, and that is that they rest in peace. backin is that they rest in peace. back in the 1980s, you're very lucky if you saw the inside of police car. lucky if you saw the inside of police car-— police car. walking various beats the _ police car. walking various beats the town _ police car. walking various beats the town centre. - police car. walking various beats the town centre. in i police car. walking various - beats the town centre. in point and -- endpoint— beats the town centre. in point and -- endpoint and _ beats the town centre. in point i and -- endpoint and remembers and —— endpoint and remembers the events of 1987 in tunbridge wells, his home beat. it the events of1987 in tunbridge wells, his home beat.- wells, his home beat. it was still a fairly _ wells, his home beat. it was still a fairly affluent - wells, his home beat. it was still a fairly affluent town. i still a fairly affluent town. it had a areas of poverty, but there was, i suggest, some faded glory. because there were no longer be houses anymore, they had been split up into flats or bedsits. it they had been split up into flats or bedsits.— they had been split up into flats or bedsits. it was home to two young _ flats or bedsits. it was home to two young women - flats or bedsits. it was home to two young women just - to two young women just starting out in life. wendy kneu starting out in life. wendy knell was 25, working in the cafe of the department store stock i was the supervisor and wendy worked with a lot of other girls and students from schools locally. she other girls and students from schools locally.— other girls and students from schools locally. she wanted to net schools locally. she wanted to get married- _ schools locally. she wanted to get married. she _ schools locally. she wanted to get married. she wanted - get married. she wanted children, desperately wanted to have children. but i learned later that she had got divorced because i had left the coffee shop by then. it she had gone back to —— she hadn't gone back to mum and dad, she struck out on her own, looking forward to the next phase in her life. moving to her own flat to which police were called on the 23 june, following a horrifying discovery. june, following a horrifying discovery-— june, following a horrifying discove . m , ., discovery. officers went into the flat and _ discovery. officers went into the flat and they _ discovery. officers went into the flat and they found - discovery. officers went into i the flat and they found wendy laying on the bed. she was naked. she was laying on her right hand side and a duvet that had been placed over her had been pulled back. there was quite a lot of blood around wendy's had, around the bedding, and on the bed sheets. at 12 o'clock, bbc radio kent news — at 12 o'clock, bbc radio kent news. police today issued a fresh — news. police today issued a fresh appeal for witnesses following a murder of a tunbridge wells manager, wendy knell, _ tunbridge wells manager, wendy knell, earlierthis tunbridge wells manager, wendy knell, earlier this week. caroline _ knell, earlier this week. caroline pierce was 20, a manager at this popular tunbridge wells restaurant, the centre of a close set of colleagues and friends. young people who worked and socialise together. untilthe people who worked and socialise together. until the 2a november, 1987, when caroline's neighbours heard screams from her flat. neighbours heard screams from herflat. she neighbours heard screams from her flat. she was neighbours heard screams from herflat. she was never seen alive again. it her flat. she was never seen alive again-— alive again. it was originally thou~ht alive again. it was originally thought that _ alive again. it was originally thought that maybe - alive again. it was originally thought that maybe she - alive again. it was originally| thought that maybe she had disappeared, but as time went on, of course, it became apparent that she hadn't just simply disappeared. apparent that she hadn't 'ust simply disappeared.�* apparent that she hadn't 'ust simply disappeared. you've got the second _ simply disappeared. you've got the second murder, _ simply disappeared. you've got the second murder, just - simply disappeared. you've got the second murder, just five i the second murder, just five months _ the second murder, just five months later, of caroline. it was — months later, of caroline. it was the _ months later, of caroline. it was the talk of the pubs, it was — was the talk of the pubs, it was the _ was the talk of the pubs, it was the talk of the pubs, it was the talk of the pubs, it was the talk of people you bumped into in the street. they wanted — bumped into in the street. they wanted to— bumped into in the street. they wanted to know what was happening. i got no answers as to how— happening. i got no answers as to how the _ happening. i got no answers as to how the investigation was going. — to how the investigation was going, all you could try to do was — going, all you could try to do was reassure them.- going, all you could try to do was reassure them. three weeks later, was reassure them. three weeks later. her — was reassure them. three weeks later. her body — was reassure them. three weeks later, her body was _ was reassure them. three weeks later, her body was found - was reassure them. three weeks later, her body was found 40 - later, her body was found a0 miles away in the water—filled ditch adjacent to the farmer's field. she was laying on her side, submerged in the water and the only clothing that she had on was a pair of tights. she had been found in a flat expanse of farms and wetlands. there were lots of officers brought into help with the fingertips search around the area. we were looking for items of caroline's personal possessions to find any evidence that might help us understand what had happened to caroline. and who is responsible.- caroline. and who is resonsible. ., , responsible. people were thinkina responsible. people were thinking this _ responsible. people were thinking this is _ responsible. people were thinking this is a - responsible. people were thinking this is a serial i thinking this is a serial kitten _ thinking this is a serial killer. once you had had the second _ killer. once you had had the second murder, people are waiting _ second murder, people are waiting for the third murder. in waiting for the third murder. "11987, _ waiting for the third murder. in 1987, the opportunities to gather evidence would have been quite different to what we can do nowadays. there would have been quite a lot of ephesus on what witnesses had seen, what witnesses had heard. irate what witnesses had seen, what witnesses had heard.— witnesses had heard. we had uniform offices _ witnesses had heard. we had uniform offices drafted - witnesses had heard. we had i uniform offices drafted income are doing inquiries, it was huge _ are doing inquiries, it was huge |t— are doing inquiries, it was hue. . , ~ j , are doing inquiries, it was hue. . ., . huge. it was wendy's flat which contains some _ huge. it was wendy's flat which contains some critical - huge. it was wendy's flat which contains some critical clues. i contains some critical clues. wendy's white blouse that she had been wearing, last known to have been wearing, that was bloodstained. on the sleeve cuffs of that blouse, there was a partial shipment in blood. there was also other dna found on that bed sheet and the duvet cover. for caroline's murder, there were no forensic leads. backin there were no forensic leads. back in 1987, there was very limited worker could be done around dna, for example. caroline's tights did have a choice from the killer. when the dna database was introduced in the 1990s, detectives were hopeful. it in the 19905, detectives were ho eful. . , in the 19905, detectives were hoeful. .,, _, in the 19905, detectives were hoeful. ., ., hopeful. it was compared to all ofthe hopeful. it was compared to all of the people — hopeful. it was compared to all of the people that _ hopeful. it was compared to all of the people that had - hopeful. it was compared to all of the people that had dna - hopeful. it was compared to all| of the people that had dna held on that national database, but there was no match. the on that national database, but there was no match.— there was no match. the first of this month's _ there was no match. the first i of this month's reconstructions tells _ of this month's reconstructions tells the — of this month's reconstructions tells the story of a 25—year—old woman who lived alone — 25—year—old woman who lived alone in — 25—year—old woman who lived alone in a _ 25—year—old woman who lived alone in a bedsit at tunbridge welis— alone in a bedsit at tunbridge wells in— alone in a bedsit at tunbridge wells in kent.— wells in kent. the team tried askin: wells in kent. the team tried asking for _ wells in kent. the team tried asking for help _ wells in kent. the team tried asking for help on _ wells in kent. the team tried asking for help on the - wells in kent. the team tried asking for help on the bbc's i asking for help on the bbc�*s crimewatch programme, which was to feature the tunbridge wells motors twice over the years. we had motors twice over the years. - had samples from the scene. we had samples from the scene. we had the offender's dna from the scene. . ., , , had the offender's dna from the scene. . . , , ., ., scene. that had beens that had been kept- _ scene. that had beens that had been kept. we _ scene. that had beens that had been kept. we recovered - scene. that had beens that had been kept. we recovered from| been kept. we recovered from the scene _ been kept. we recovered from the scene and _ been kept. we recovered from the scene and they _ been kept. we recovered from the scene and they were - been kept. we recovered froml the scene and they were always kept for new developments in forensic science. the kept for new developments in forensic science.— forensic science. the months turned into — forensic science. the months turned into years. _ forensic science. the months turned into years. a - forensic science. the months turned into years. a huge - turned into years. a huge murder investigation into a cold case and for kent police it was clear that the lease had run out. ~ ,.., ., run out. we scale down the inuui run out. we scale down the inquiry but _ run out. we scale down the inquiry but one _ run out. we scale down the inquiry but one thing - run out. we scale down the inquiry but one thing that l run out. we scale down the. inquiry but one thing that we have never done is close the inquiry. —— scaled down. the inquiry. -- scaled down. the old kent _ inquiry. -- scaled down. the old kent police _ inquiry. —— scaled down. the old kent police headquarters would soon be earmarked for closure but in 2019 the tunbridge wells case came back to life. ~ . ., , .,~ ., to life. we had a breakthrough. we developed _ to life. we had a breakthrough. we developed the _ to life. we had a breakthrough. we developed the tights - to life. we had a breakthrough. we developed the tights that i we developed the tights that caroline was wearing when she was found in order to be able to get, for the first time ever, a dna sample that we believed was from the suspect to have killed caroline in 1987. �* . ~ .. 1987. but back then there was nothin: 1987. but back then there was nothing to _ 1987. but back then there was nothing to compare _ 1987. but back then there was nothing to compare it - 1987. but back then there was nothing to compare it with. i 1987. but back then there was i nothing to compare it with. the olice nothing to compare it with. the police were _ nothing to compare it with. the police were not _ nothing to compare it with. tue: police were not taking nothing to compare it with. t'te: police were not taking dna from people because we didn't have the power, didn't even though the power, didn't even though the technology was going to be there. , ~ , ., , ., the technology was going to be there. , ~ .,, there. dna profiles are a bit like car number _ there. dna profiles are a bit like car number plates. - there. dna profiles are a bit like car number plates. one| like car number plates. one plate, one car. there has been a register of plates since 190a. the database of police dna profiles only began in 1985, and wendy's killer wasn't on it. but part of another plate can tell you where and when a car was registered. and now part of a dna profile can tell you the family the sample likely comes from.— likely comes from. you can imagine — likely comes from. you can imagine over _ likely comes from. you can imagine over 65 _ likely comes from. you can imagine over 65 million - likely comes from. you can - imagine over 65 million people in the uk, there around 6.5 million profiles in the dna database. through science, data base. through science, through database. through science, through algorithms, through brilliant individuals, they will narrower that profile dental population of around 90 people. —— they will narrow that profile. 9c} people. -- they will narrow that profile.— that profile. 90 people in a liven that profile. 90 people in a given the — that profile. 90 people in a given the police _ that profile. 90 people in a given the police that - that profile. 90 people in a given the police that dna l that profile. 90 people in a i given the police that dna and might be related to the tunbridge wells killer. detectives visited and questioned them about their family members. and one family member stood out. that family members. and one family member stood out.— member stood out. that person was david _ member stood out. that person was david fuller. _ member stood out. that person was david fuller. we _ member stood out. that person was david fuller. we knocked i member stood out. that person l was david fuller. we knocked on the door. david _ was david fuller. we knocked on the door. david fuller _ was david fuller. we knocked on the door. david fuller answered | the door. david fuller answered the door. david fuller answered the door~ — the door. david fuller answered the door. ., the door. david fuller answered the door.- morning. - the door. hello. morning. david, it— the door. hello. morning. david, it is— the door. hello. morning. david, it is the _ the door. hello. morning. david, it is the police. - the door. hello. morning. i david, it is the police. would like to come _ david, it is the police. would like to come to _ david, it is the police. would like to come to speak- david, it is the police. would like to come to speak to - david, it is the police. would| like to come to speak to you. he invited _ like to come to speak to you. he invited us in. the uniformed police _ he invited us in. the uniformed police officers explained to him — police officers explained to him the _ police officers explained to him the reason we were attending. and he was very calm — attending. and he was very calm. , ., , ., calm. david, if you listen to what i'm — calm. david, if you listen to what i'm going _ calm. david, if you listen to what i'm going to _ calm. david, if you listen to what i'm going to say... - calm. david, if you listen to i what i'm going to say... yes. we are investigating - what i'm going to say... yes. we are investigating the - we are investigating the murders of wendy knell and caroline pierce in 1987. ok? as part of that investigation, you have been picked as a suspect both geographically and forensically.— both geographically and forensicall . �* forensically. alright, david, ou are forensically. alright, david, you are under _ forensically. alright, david, you are under arrest - forensically. alright, david, you are under arrest on - you are under arrest on suspicion of the murders of wendy— suspicion of the murders of wendy knell and caroline pierce in 1987~ — wendy knell and caroline pierce in 1987. do you understand? you do not _ in 1987. do you understand? you do not have _ in 1987. do you understand? you do not have to say anything that — do not have to say anything that may _ do not have to say anything that may harm your defence something which you later rely on in _ something which you later rely on in your— something which you later rely on in your defence. | something which you later rely on in your defence.— on in your defence. i suspicion from the _ on in your defence. i suspicion from the information - on in your defence. i suspicion from the information was - from the information was available to me that he lived in the area at the time. i knew some information around his criminal history and the method of his crime back in the 1970s, when he was a convicted burglar. when he was a convicted burglar-— when he was a convicted burular. ., . , burglar. convicted but never 'ailed. burglar. convicted but never jailed- by — burglar. convicted but never jailed. by 2020, _ burglar. convicted but never jailed. by 2020, he - burglar. convicted but never jailed. by 2020, he was - burglar. convicted but never jailed. by 2020, he was an i jailed. by 2020, he was an electrician on his third marriage, trying to give the impression he was mr normal. did you know any of these women?— did you know any of these women? ., �* ~' ., women? no. he didn't know their addresses. _ women? no. he didn't know their addresses, where _ women? no. he didn't know their addresses, where they _ women? no. he didn't know their addresses, where they lived, - addresses, where they lived, there — addresses, where they lived, there was— addresses, where they lived, there was no— addresses, where they lived, there was no reason- addresses, where they lived, there was no reason that - addresses, where they lived, there was no reason that hisl there was no reason that his dna— there was no reason that his dna would _ there was no reason that his dna would be _ there was no reason that his dna would be at _ there was no reason that his dna would be at either- there was no reason that his dna would be at either of. there was no reason that his. dna would be at either of those scenes — dna would be at either of those scenes. , ., scenes. david, did you murder wendy knell? _ scenes. david, did you murder wendy knell? no. _ scenes. david, did you murder wendy knell? no. did - scenes. david, did you murder wendy knell? no. did you - scenes. david, did you murder- wendy knell? no. did you murder caroline pierce? no. _ wendy knell? no. did you murder caroline pierce? no. he _ wendy knell? no. did you murder caroline pierce? no. he would - caroline pierce? no. he would make almost— caroline pierce? no. he would make almost a _ caroline pierce? no. he would make almost a threat - caroline pierce? no. he would make almost a threat to - caroline pierce? no. he would make almost a threat to see i caroline pierce? no. he would make almost a threat to see ifj make almost a threat to see if you continue _ make almost a threat to see if you continue along _ make almost a threat to see if you continue along this - make almost a threat to see if you continue along this path. make almost a threat to see if you continue along this path ii you continue along this path i will stop— you continue along this path i will stop answering _ you continue along this path i will stop answering your- will stop answering your questions _ will stop answering your questions. i— will stop answering your questions.— will stop answering your questions. i guess that is another _ questions. i guess that is another element - questions. i guess that is another element of - questions. i guess that is i another element of control where _ another element of control where he thinks he can control the interview process. can where he thinks he can control the interview process.- the interview process. can you describe anything _ the interview process. can you describe anything else - the interview process. can you describe anything else about i describe anything else about wendy's flat for? ho. as he wendy's flat for? no. as he faced questions, his small house in heathfield east sussex was full of police officers. there were a lot of things in the house. i described david fuller as a hoarder. we found that he was a keen photographer and found thousands and in fact about 50,000 hardcopy photographs in his collection. a member of staff and the photograph of david fuller in his garden in the sun. the way he was lying — his garden in the sun. the way he was lying allowed - his garden in the sun. the way he was lying allowed police . his garden in the sun. the way he was lying allowed police to| he was lying allowed police to focus on the distinctive pattern on the soles of his shoes. , shoes. remember the white blouse that _ shoes. remember the white blouse that we _ shoes. remember the white blouse that we found - shoes. remember the white blouse that we found where | blouse that we found where wendy had been killed? on the cuff of one of the sleeves of the blouse was a shoe print in blood stop that trainer was the same as left demark on wendy's in blood. a golden nugget piece of evidence. then go. ihie in blood. a golden nugget piece of evidence. then go.— of evidence. then go. we found a note in the — of evidence. then go. we found a note in the diary _ of evidence. then go. we found a note in the diary that - of evidence. then go. we found a note in the diary that he - a note in the diary that he visited _ a note in the diary that he visited buster browns, which is where — visited buster browns, which is where caroline pierce was manager. we also found items from _ manager. we also found items from the — manager. we also found items from the business where wendy worked — from the business where wendy worked. ~ . , ., ., worked. was there to me that he knew wendy _ worked. was there to me that he knew wendy knell _ worked. was there to me that he knew wendy knell or _ worked. was there to me that he knew wendy knell or who - worked. was there to me that he knew wendy knell or who she - knew wendy knell or who she was, he knew caroline, and has targeted them for death. ibm;r targeted them for death. by having that really good current understanding of his life history— understanding of his life history we were able to prove that _ history we were able to prove that he — history we were able to prove that he was lying.— history we were able to prove that he was lying. take a seat. we were able _ that he was lying. take a seat. we were able to _ that he was lying. take a seat. we were able to get _ that he was lying. take a seat. we were able to get a - that he was lying. take a seat. we were able to get a dna - we were able to get a dna sample _ we were able to get a dna sample from him and that was an exact— sample from him and that was an exact match from the offender profile — exact match from the offender profile we have found that the scene — profile we have found that the scene of — profile we have found that the scene of wendy and a match to what _ scene of wendy and a match to what we — scene of wendy and a match to what we now knew from the forensic _ what we now knew from the forensic link to caroline. at that— forensic link to caroline. at that point we thought, here, we've — that point we thought, here, we've done it. we now knew david — we've done it. we now knew david fuller was the offender. but then— david fuller was the offender. but then we found something else — but then we found something else. , , . , else. his identify the victims. in 1989, david _ else. his identify the victims. in 1989, david fuller - else. his identify the victims. in 1989, david fuller secured| else. his identify the victims. i in 1989, david fuller secured a 'ob in 1989, david fuller secured a job at— in 1989, david fuller secured a job at the _ in 1989, david fuller secured a job at the kent and sussex hospital. job at the kent and sussex hospital-— job at the kent and sussex hosital. . ._ hospital. that friday evening we were taking _ hospital. that friday evening we were taking everything i hospital. that friday evening i we were taking everything up, ready for go to go to court the following morning. he ready for go to go to court the following morning.— following morning. he was an electrician — following morning. he was an electrician by _ following morning. he was an electrician by trade _ following morning. he was an electrician by trade and i following morning. he was an electrician by trade and he i following morning. he was an| electrician by trade and he was a maintenance man.— a maintenance man. there are some stuff _ a maintenance man. there are some stuff stuck _ a maintenance man. there are some stuff stuck on _ a maintenance man. there are some stuff stuck on the - a maintenance man. there are some stuff stuck on the back i a maintenance man. there are| some stuff stuck on the back of that as — some stuff stuck on the back of that as well _ some stuff stuck on the back of that as well.— that as well. and then i got a call. that as well. and then i got a call- they — that as well. and then i got a call. they had _ that as well. and then i got a call. they had found - that as well. and then i got a call. they had found some i call. they had found some pictures. call. they had found some pictures-— call. they had found some ictures. ., ., ,, �*, pictures. he looks like he's not pictures. he looks like he's got some _ pictures. he looks like he's got some hard _ pictures. he looks like he's got some hard drugs i pictures. he looks like he's got some hard drugs in i pictures. he looks like he's i got some hard drugs in there, i would _ got some hard drugs in there, i would say _ got some hard drugs in there, i would say he _ got some hard drugs in there, i would say-— would say. he had access to all areas of the — would say. he had access to all areas of the hospital, - would say. he had access to all areas of the hospital, carrying i areas of the hospital, carrying out essential maintenance work that was — out essential maintenance work that was needed. but we found he had — that was needed. but we found he had a — that was needed. but we found he had a particular interest in the mortuary. he had a particular interest in the mortuary-— he had a particular interest in the mortuary. here is a sandisk when i the mortuary. here is a sandisk when i can _ the mortuary. here is a sandisk when i can read _ the mortuary. here is a sandisk when i can read there. - the mortuary. here is a sandisk when i can read there. but i the mortuary. here is a sandisk when i can read there. but is i the mortuary. here is a sandisk when i can read there. but is al when i can read there. but is a hard _ when i can read there. but is a hard drive _ when i can read there. but is a hard drive. on— when i can read there. but is a hard drive. on opening - when i can read there. but is a hard drive. on opening the i when i can read there. but is a. hard drive. on opening the hard drives. — hard drive. on opening the hard drives. ihu— hard drive. on opening the hard drives, i'm looking _ hard drive. on opening the hard drives, i'm looking at— hard drive. on opening the hard drives, i'm looking at a - drives, i'm looking at a mortuary— drives, i'm looking at a mortuary and - drives, i'm looking at a mortuary and i'm - drives, i'm looking at a i mortuary and i'm looking at drives, i'm looking at a - mortuary and i'm looking at a man— mortuary and i'm looking at a man sexually— mortuary and i'm looking at a man sexually abusing - mortuary and i'm looking at a man sexually abusing what i mortuary and i'm looking at a. man sexually abusing what are clearly — man sexually abusing what are clearly dead _ man sexually abusing what are clearly dead people. _ man sexually abusing what are clearly dead people. find i man sexually abusing what are clearly dead people.— man sexually abusing what are clearly dead people. and he had filmed it. photographed - clearly dead people. and he had filmed it. photographed it. i filmed it. photographed it. every second. these are his pictures. b. every second. these are his pictures-— every second. these are his ictures. �* ., ., pictures. a lot of the time he sets u- pictures. a lot of the time he sets up the — pictures. a lot of the time he sets up the camera _ pictures. a lot of the time he sets up the camera and i pictures. a lot of the time he sets up the camera and you i pictures. a lot of the time he i sets up the camera and you can watch everything that he does. there is a real similarity between what he was doing with the victims in the mortuary to what we've seen from the evidence from the scenes of caroline and also of wendy. my my role in this investigation from the outset is to be the eyewitness to what is happening to these women and children. no—one else is going to speak for what happened if no—one else is going to look at that material, and that had to be me. i have seen some horrible, horrible stuff in my career. that people really shouldn't have to say. and then, looking at this, . .. have to say. and then, looking at this,... excuse me.- at this,... excuse me. david, it is fine- _ at this,... excuse me. david, it is fine. we _ at this,... excuse me. david, it is fine. we can _ at this,... excuse me. david, it is fine. we can stop - at this,... excuse me. david, it is fine. we can stop if i at this,... excuse me. david, it is fine. we can stop if you i it is fine. we can stop if you want. ., �* �* , want. no, i'm fine. it's just--- _ want. no, i'm fine. it's just... it's _ want. no, i'm fine. it's just... it'sjust- want. no, i'm fine. it's just... it'sjust a i want. no, i'm fine. it's. just... it'sjust a reminder want. no, i'm fine. it's- just... it'sjust a reminder of just... it'sjust a reminder of just how horrible the world can be out there. and it's utterly, utterly, utterly... ifelt sadness, ifelt anger, utterly, utterly... ifelt sadness, ifeltanger, ifelt so many different emotions. fuller had killed two women and he had sexually abused the bodies of 98 more. including one 100 years old, and three children. ., ., , one 100 years old, and three children-— children. part of me is trying to understand _ children. part of me is trying to understand what - children. part of me is trying to understand what must i children. part of me is trying to understand what must be | to understand what must be going through his head. i can only conclude that he, that there is an element of control going on. that is all i can imagine. going on. that is all i can imagine-— going on. that is all i can imauine. ., ., ., ., imagine. control over women in particular- _ imagine. control over women in particular. echoes _ imagine. control over women in particular. echoes of— imagine. control over women in particular. echoes of another i particular. echoes of another notorious criminal, harold shipman. doctor richard badcock, a forensic psychiatrist, advised police about ship, but what is his view of david fuller? —— shipman. view of david fuller? -- shipman— view of david fuller? -- shiman. .,., , view of david fuller? -- shiman. ., ., i. shipman. the psychopathology at work here is _ shipman. the psychopathology at work here is very _ shipman. the psychopathology at work here is very definitely i shipman. the psychopathology at work here is very definitely of i work here is very definitely of sadomasochism. which, in essence, is not being able to deal with your own issues except by manipulating the behaviour of other people. although you are doing extreme things, you don't feel alive, most of the time. you might only feel alive in the moment of the offence. necrophilia, that's it. there's nowhere else to go after that.— to go after that. after he had offended and _ to go after that. after he had offended and he _ to go after that. after he had offended and he had - to go after that. after he had i offended and he had recorded, he would — offended and he had recorded, he would take it home, downloaded to his computers, and he — downloaded to his computers, and he had quite a sophisticated system of files and subfolders, whether material would be placed. and materialwould be placed. and he had a little _ material would be placed. fich he had a little black book where he logged details of his mortuary victims.— mortuary victims. date of birth, mortuary victims. date of birth. date _ mortuary victims. date of birth, date of— mortuary victims. date of birth, date of death... it| mortuary victims. date of i birth, date of death... it was like a library _ birth, date of death... it was like a library that _ birth, date of death... it was like a library that he - birth, date of death... it was like a library that he can i birth, date of death... it wasj like a library that he can look back— like a library that he can look back over~ _ like a library that he can look back over. it like a library that he can look back over-— back over. it is perhaps the ultimate — back over. it is perhaps the ultimate of _ back over. it is perhaps the ultimate of control. - back over. it is perhaps the l ultimate of control. because those poor people, who have got absolutely no say, there is no resistance, in any way, shape orform, to what resistance, in any way, shape or form, to what is going resistance, in any way, shape orform, to what is going on. what he was doing, and in such a volume, was completely unprecedented. latte a volume, was completely unprecedented.— a volume, was completely unrecedented. ~ , ., . unprecedented. we did research, we soke unprecedented. we did research, we spoke to _ unprecedented. we did research, we spoke to many _ unprecedented. we did research, we spoke to many people - unprecedented. we did research, we spoke to many people in i unprecedented. we did research, we spoke to many people in the i we spoke to many people in the country. — we spoke to many people in the country, even looked at what was — country, even looked at what was happening internationally to try— was happening internationally to try to — was happening internationally to try to understand if there were — to try to understand if there were any— to try to understand if there were any other investigations that could assist us to see if we could _ that could assist us to see if we could take advice and guidance. we found nothing. he was a guidance. we found nothing. was a man guidance. we found nothing. the: was a man with a trusted job in a modern, secure hospital. how did he get away with it. his 'ob did he get away with it. his job gave — did he get away with it. his job gave him _ did he get away with it. ti 3 job gave him the cover, didn't it, for going into the mortuary. and i think personally, perhaps is rather unassuming nature enabled him to get away with it.— to get away with it. david fuller had _ to get away with it. david fuller had manipulated i to get away with it. david i fuller had manipulated himself in a position where he was a maintenance supervisor. he had a swipe — maintenance supervisor. he had a swipe card that allowed him to access _ a swipe card that allowed him to access anywhere in the hospital. he changed his shifts to work— hospital. he changed his shifts to work a — hospital. he changed his shifts to work a later shift rather than — to work a later shift rather than a _ to work a later shift rather than a normal day shift. they set up — than a normal day shift. they set up at _ than a normal day shift. they set up at the mortuary 's into halves — set up at the mortuary 's into halves. bodies that would be brought— halves. bodies that would be brought into the mortuary would be brought into the mortuary would he put _ brought into the mortuary would be put into fridges and freezers on one side of the mortuary, or covered by cctv. the _ mortuary, or covered by cctv. the second _ mortuary, or covered by cctv. the second part of the mortuary, which is not covered by cctv. — mortuary, which is not covered by cctv, where david fuller went— by cctv, where david fuller went and _ by cctv, where david fuller went and was able to lock himself— went and was able to lock himself in that area, had no cameras, _ himself in that area, had no cameras, but from the other side — cameras, but from the other side of— cameras, but from the other side of those fridges, he could -et side of those fridges, he could get access to the bodies undertake the fridges. there is a moment _ undertake the fridges. there is a moment during _ undertake the fridges. there is a moment during one - undertake the fridges. there is a moment during one of- undertake the fridges. there is a moment during one of the i a moment during one of the videos where there is a noise from outside the mortuary. i'm not completely sure what it is, but his response is to just turn the light off. and i anticipated, while i am listening, but he is putting the body bark or doing something to hide, and then about five minutes later the light comes back on and still standing there. just as he was before. �* , ., , before. and he must have been ra int before. and he must have been praying that _ before. and he must have been praying that he _ before. and he must have been praying that he would _ before. and he must have been praying that he would be i before. and he must have been| praying that he would be caught at that stage? that praying that he would be caught at that stage?— at that stage? that would have been so much _ at that stage? that would have been so much better— at that stage? that would have been so much better for- at that stage? that would have been so much better for so i at that stage? that would have i been so much better for so many been so much betterfor so many more people, had he been caught at any time. but more people, had he been caught at any time-— at any time. but who had he abused? _ at any time. but who had he abused? police _ at any time. but who had he abused? police had - at any time. but who had he abused? police had to i at any time. but who had he abused? police had to find i at any time. but who had he i abused? police had to find out. they searched hospital records and they scrutinised david fuller's horrific videos. looking for parts of the body, whether it is tags or medical devices, anything that could be used, facial imagery, age, build, absolutely everything that would be able to be passed on to my colleagues so that when they are looking at a list of people, they are able to say, well, it is not that person because of this reason, it is not that person because of this reason, and we narrow it down to just one person. once identified, liaison officers were sent to visit the victims' families.— victims' families. you know that these _ victims' families. you know that these families - victims' families. you know that these families have i victims' families. you know i that these families have been given a horrific message, and you know that is nothing you can say or do that is going to make that any better or make it go away. so all you can do is be there for them and try to help them in any way that you can, which is exactly what we do is family liaison officers. in 201a, the ikande family came to the uk from france for a short break. after they left the ferry, a lorry had a car on the ferry, a lorry had a car on the motorway. mary ikande, her sister helen and stepfather were killed. and six years later, theirfamily was were killed. and six years later, their family was one of dozens visited by the police investigating fuller. marianne helen, 16 and 22. their bodies lying on the mortuary, had been among fuller's many abuse victims. among the 80 who police have identified. soon, a public enquiry will examine what more should be done to make hospital mortuaries secure places of rest. ,., ., mortuaries secure places of rest. ., mortuaries secure places of rest. . ., ., rest. good afternoon. i want to sa on rest. good afternoon. i want to say on behalf _ rest. good afternoon. i want to say on behalf of _ rest. good afternoon. i want to say on behalf of the _ rest. good afternoon. i want to say on behalf of the trust i rest. good afternoon. i want to say on behalf of the trust our i say on behalf of the trust our shocked and appalled by am by the criminal activity by david fuller in our hospital mortuary that has been revealed in court this week. most importantly, i want to apologise to the families of the victims of these terrible crimes. they were so many _ these terrible crimes. they were so many different i were so many different reactions to it. some people wished — reactions to it. some people wished that they'd never heard, they were — wished that they'd never heard, they were really angry by the news, — they were really angry by the news, they felt that they couldn't fathom the thought that a — couldn't fathom the thought that a human being could do this, — that a human being could do this, they thought of him as a monster~ _ this, they thought of him as a monster. some people feel that the person that was affected by these _ the person that was affected by these offences was no longer of our loved — these offences was no longer of our loved one, in that body. 0ther— our loved one, in that body. other people have kind of taken venues — other people have kind of taken venues and taken it into stride and just— venues and taken it into stride and just accepted it. but i think— and just accepted it. but i think the main reaction has been. _ think the main reaction has been, how can someone do this and get — been, how can someone do this and get away with this for so long? — and get away with this for so long? it's_ and get away with this for so long? it'sjust unheard of. we long? it's 'ust unheard of. we went to long? it'sjust unheard of. we went to trial _ long? it'sjust unheard of. - went to trial because david fuller was saying, in his defence, that he had diminished responsibility. but he was not of sound mind when he killed wendy and caroline. on the fourth day of the trial, he changed his plea, and he confessed to murdering wendy and caroline. that was a massive moment.- and caroline. that was a massive moment. �* . , massive moment. after all these ears, massive moment. after all these years. suddenly _ massive moment. after all these years, suddenly it's _ massive moment. after all these years, suddenly it's happened. i years, suddenly it's happened. wendy's— years, suddenly it's happened. wendy's mother told the court to murder had ruined her life. fuller's crimes have caused decades of hurt. t fuller's crimes have caused decades of hurt.— fuller's crimes have caused decades of hurt. i don't think about him — decades of hurt. i don't think about him as _ decades of hurt. i don't think about him as a _ decades of hurt. i don't think about him as a person. i decades of hurt. i don't think about him as a person. the i decades of hurt. i don't think. about him as a person. the pain that he's caused these families, the torment has caused them, you know, the despairfor caused them, you know, the despair for not only the families but also the officers who have had to see this material and help these families through such an awful time, is horrendous. he has completely shattered so many people's lives because of it. he has betrayed the nhs, he has betrayed — he has betrayed the nhs, he has betrayed his colleagues, he has betrayed — betrayed his colleagues, he has betrayed his colleagues, he has betrayed his profession, but we have _ betrayed his profession, but we have all. — betrayed his profession, but we have all, every single one of us, — have all, every single one of us, has _ have all, every single one of us, has that same wish for someone _ us, has that same wish for someone that we have lost. and that is— someone that we have lost. and that is that — someone that we have lost. and that is that they rest in peace _ that is that they rest in peace. and he has betrayed that wish, _ peace. and he has betrayed that wish, for— peace. and he has betrayed that wish, for all of us. hello. well, earlier, the skies were clear and we had a touch of frost, even some icy patches in places after the recent wintry weather. but now, a weather front is approaching, and the first half of saturday at least will be very wet and windy. now here's the low pressure that's sweeping into the uk, here's the weather front, and this is rain—bearing cloud, so if the rain hasn't reached you already, it will do very soon. ahead of this weather front, there's some temporary snow falling across the highlands of scotland, but for many of us, it really is rain. and the rain will be heavy, it'll bring also very blustery weather by the end of the night to many western parts of the uk. and look at the temperatures — eight degrees in belfast, double figures in the south—west, just around freezing or above across eastern parts of the country. so here's that low pressure around early saturday. within it, we've got milder air. you can see the milder winds coming in from the south. behind the cold front, yes, there's slightly colder weather, but not as cold compared to what we've been having in the last few days. so, here's that wet and windy weather for the first half of saturday. later, notice that the skies clear. there will be frequent blustery showers, some will again be wintry, particularly across the highlands, but for many of us, it is rain. it will feel chilly in the wind, but notice that rain really dragging its heels around east anglia and the south—east. it may not clear the south—east until after dark, so here, it really will be an unpleasant day. come the evening, i think saturday night into sunday, things will start to dry out. here's the good news — saturday night into sunday, the weather will calm down, which means that on sunday, it will be a much better day. this is bbc world news, i'm simon pusey. our top stories: the us questions kazakhstan's decision to invite in russian troops to quell violent unrest in which dozens have been killed. one lesson of recent history is that once russians are in your house, it's sometimes very difficult to get them to leave. three white men who murdered ahmaud arbery in the us state of georgia are given life sentences. the family say they never lost faith in justice. india locks down the capital, delhi, to try and halt a surge of cases fueled by the omicron variant. and sidney poitier, the first black man to win the academy award for best actor, has died at the age of 9a. we take a look back at his life's work.