Transcripts For BBCNEWS HARDtalk 20240709

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government has to listen and has to— government has to listen and has to reflect on this because there — has to reflect on this because there has— has to reflect on this because there has been over the last six weeks or so a range of unforced _ six weeks or so a range of unforced errors, miscalculations and misjudgments starting with his own patterson debacle and marching mps up the hill to vote — marching mps up the hill to vote a — marching mps up the hill to vote a certain way and then you turning — vote a certain way and then you turning the _ vote a certain way and then you turning the very next day or so followed — turning the very next day or so followed on by christmas parties _ followed on by christmas parties where the government says— parties where the government says nothing to see here, there was no — says nothing to see here, there was no party, and yet there are videos — was no party, and yet there are videos and _ was no party, and yet there are videos and someone has resigned and is _ videos and someone has resigned and is how— videos and someone has resigned and is now being investigated to a few— and is now being investigated to a few other things as well. i to a few other things as well. i do _ to a few other things as well. i do think— to a few other things as well. i do think questions need to be asked — i do think questions need to be asked about how things are actually— asked about how things are actually working, why things are being miscommunicated and mishandled and what is going to change — mishandled and what is going to change going forward. i think a lot of. — change going forward. i think a lot of. as — change going forward. i think a lot of, as you saw in his huge rebellion against public health measures of all things this way, — measures of all things this way, a _ measures of all things this way, a lot of mps will be looking _ way, a lot of mps will be looking for that change as well, _ looking for that change as well, so _ looking for that change as well, so itjust puts the prime mihister— well, so itjust puts the prime minister in quite a precarious position. _ minister in quite a precarious position, and i am afraid the shine — position, and i am afraid the shine is— position, and i am afraid the shine is now really wearing off~ — shine is now really wearing off. ~ ., ., , , off. we will no doubt be pleased _ off. we will no doubt be pleased with _ off. we will no doubt be pleased with this - off. we will no doubt be pleased with this news. | pleased with this news. have you spoken to any of your former lib dem colleagues? the liberal former lib dem colleagues? iie: liberal democrats former lib dem colleagues? inez liberal democrats are absolutely gushing, follow them on twitter and you will be overwhelmed by happiness and enthusiasm and there is a davies standing up and waving his arms in the air. you can't do that because he is isolating because of covid, a reminder that those sacrifices people are making is still a massive part of political debate. liberal democrats have been written off as a political force after 2015. they won the chesham and amersham by—election and there was criticism that was on the back of the anti— housing development, and the conservatives had a policy agenda they could refer to as a response to that by—election, but they could also feel good about themselves or maybe they were just promoting the economy too much and they didn't need too much and they didn't need to worry. it was just the controversy of doing the right thing. this is completely different and the liberal democrats are celebrating. this is just back to the 19905 victory. with the last time we saw things like this it was 5aw things like this it was simply saw things like this it was simply just absolutely rage from voters about a government that had lost its way in terms of the basics, treating voters with respect, not telling lies, not having scandals. the thing people want most of all from the government is just a basic competence, and not to have to pay any attention to what the government is up to and just rely on it, and when they are assaulted by after day with yet another scandal, yet another controversy, yet another photograph of a party as it is right now, they are just exhausted. it is not what we want from politics and the liberal democrats have managed to capture that and gone back to capture that and gone back to being the party of the good local, anything to change politics party. that is really remarkable because lots of voters remained angry with them for a very long time from about 2010 2015, lots of voters remained angry liberal democrats about brexit, and the position they took to overthrow brexit or campaign for a second referendum as they did and four years after the first referendum, so it is the sense that not all is forgiven, but that not all is forgiven, but that people are willing to nonetheless turn as i did in the past in order to simply say to their political leader that they want one thing better and different and, most importantly, want something thatis importantly, want something that is not corrupt.— importantly, want something that is not corrupt. thank you for now _ that is not corrupt. thank you for now. stick _ that is not corrupt. thank you for now. stick with _ that is not corrupt. thank you for now. stick with us. - that is not corrupt. thank you for now. stick with us. let's l for now. stick with us. let's cross now life to the bbc parliament political editor who is at the north shropshire account. the numbers came in, that was quite the chair for helen morgan. what is the scene at the moment? it helen morgan. what is the scene at the moment?— at the moment? it absolutely was. everybody _ at the moment? it absolutely was. everybody has _ at the moment? it absolutely| was. everybody has hightailed it out of here. it is just the members of the press and media are left in here. an absolutely huge draw because as you say that majority, 5925, i don't think anybody expected that in the live dams you are telling us for the last couple of hours that this win was notjust going to be just over the line, it was going to be convincing, comfortable they said. they were absolutely right, weren't they? helen morgan getting 17,957 votes, neil shastri hurts, getting just 12,032 votes — mcneil shastri hurts. helen morgan actually took a call from the lib dem leader —— neil shastri—hurst. real jubilation and the whole team absolutely thrilled to bits because not only have they done what they set out to do, which was give the government a bloodied nose whether that was by slashing the majority of winning, they have notjust done that, they have gone over that line and they have over achieved here, getting the majority of almost 6000. and just to reiterate, i want patterson, the former conservative mp in this can join c, had a majority ofjust under 23,000. join c, had a majority ofjust under23,000. —— owen join c, had a majority ofjust under 23,000. —— owen paterson. that hasjust been under 23,000. —— owen paterson. that has just been stripped away. an unbelievable result and it has shown that the campaign run by the liberal democrats here in shropshire has borne fruit. they have been out in numbers speaking to people. i would say what has been happening down in westminster has made it very, very difficult for the conservative candidate, neil shastri—hurst, but i think also there has been a feeling this is something dams have been trying to tap into on the doorstep is that this rural constituency, true blue conservative mp5 for almost 200 years has been taken for granted by the conservative party. there are issues here around services, about access to the nhs, waiting times for ambulances, and that is also part of the victory for the liberal democrats here. it seems to be a post brexit era because as we were hearing, this area did vote for brexit. voters appear to have forgiven the lib dems and their message that they can deliver for the people of north shropshire while the conservatives have taken them for granted, left them behind has cut through in addition of course to all that your order has gone on in westminster which has made it clearly difficult for the conservatives here on the ground. conservatives here on the round. ~ . , conservatives here on the round. . . , ., , ground. we have been gearing up for this road _ ground. we have been gearing up for this road for _ ground. we have been gearing up for this road for several _ for this road for several weeks. you will have spoken up to hundreds of voters. are you surprised by this result? i surprised by this result? i think i am a little surprised by the size of it. we knew it was very close. for the last week or so particular it has become very difficult for the conservative candidate on the ground. they have been hearing negativity in some places back on the doorstep, and it was clear it would be very close. that is what we have been briefed by all the parties over the last few days. the scale of it, the majority for helen morgan ofjust under 6000, that is pretty impressive, and that does surprise me. you mentioned earlier on jubilation _ does surprise me. you mentioned earlier on jubilation among - does surprise me. you mentioned earlier on jubilation among the i earlier on jubilation among the liberal democrats there. what is the mood like amongst the conservative party representatives for? you can imaaine representatives for? you can imagine it — representatives for? you can imagine it is _ representatives for? you can imagine it is pretty _ representatives for? you can imagine it is pretty bleak, i representatives for? you can imagine it is pretty bleak, it| imagine it is pretty bleak, it is the complete opposite of what the liberal democrats were experiencing. some quite stony faces in the room. conservative mp in cheshire, eddisbury, jameson was here, he was standing very solemn face at the back of the crowd —— timpson. neil shastri—hurst made his way out, we saw him as he exited building, but they made the exit very quickly and got away and they tonight are deeply, deeply disappointed as the only way to describe it. elizabeth at the north shropshire count, thank you for being with us. what reaction argue saying? elizabeth was saying absolute jubilation from the liberal democrats, having a hell of a year. it comes off the back of the chesham amersham by—election in the summer. that was an enormous swing and they are absolutely thrilled. we would normally in the morning be expecting to see and baby the liberal democrat leader going up to north shropshire taking out his famous hammer, taking out his famous hammer, taking into the blue wall, but he won't be able to do that because he has covid and he will be isolating at home. jubilation for the limb dams and as you expect, complete silence from the conservative party. they will be awake, they will be saying this, downing street will be seen as they will be thinking, what we do now to regroup? the prime minister said, now to regroup? the prime ministersaid, he now to regroup? the prime minister said, he got away with at time, i think this is about local issues, issues peculiar to chesham amersham, but this is a more tricky thing for him to write off. not only because it is a more difficult political terrain for him now thanit political terrain for him now than it was in the summer, not only because there aren't obvious local issues that he can point to and say that this was about, but because in many ways this was, at least the liberal democrats put it this way, a referendum on boris johnson and how he runs his government. we heard it from the new mp for the area, helen morgan, saying, look, this was herfirst line, borisjohnson, the party is over, clever, nice line that they were, obviously it works on a number of levels. it says it is the end of boris johnson by the end of boris johnson by the end of boris johnson bottom extended honeymoon as prime minister, but also, not oblique reference to the downing street story we have been hearing for weeks now, the idea borisjohnson's style of government doesn't sit well with a certain type of conservative voters, some of whom have transferred over to the liberal democrats in enormous numbers tonight. they will now have to think, take very deep breaths and regroup and know they are not very likely in eminent political danger, but they will have to do something, show something, say something, a plan to very disgruntled, worried conservative mp5 for whom used to have borisjohnson and the number 10 trade with them with or, now treating them differently. they want to think about practical ways i can address this. let's not forget there are radical things currently hanging over the prime minister, the cabinet secretary investigation into the alleged party that downing street and his own standards investigation, they want an escalation for various things relating to the downing street flat refurbishment. what has just happened tonight, make no mistake, is an earthquake. devil bottom advocate, this is one seat, there are still many more seeds from labour in the last general election, not much to worry about. if last general election, not much to worry about.— to worry about. if you were to ut a to worry about. if you were to put a gun _ to worry about. if you were to put a gun to _ to worry about. if you were to put a gun to my _ to worry about. if you were to put a gun to my head - to worry about. if you were to put a gun to my head and i to worry about. if you were to put a gun to my head and say| put a gun to my head and say what will happen with that seat at the next general election, i would say, conservatives could easily win it back. but sometimes happens in by—election. it is very easy to get over excited about them. it is easy to over extrapolate from them and say if we had a swing like that in the country, we will have a majority of about 200. that is very unlikely, sorry to the liberal democrats watching, it probably isn't going to happen at the next general election. just because that won't be replicated in a general election doesn't mean it doesn't affect the alchemy of politics and the psychology of politics and the psychology of politics right here, right now. and borisjohnson, if he had a great few months and this happen, imagine that boris johnson had a better political time than he had, a bit like chesham and amersham, he was able to ride that through and say, i think there were local things there. but he looks wounded now because he hasn't got that invulnerable talismanic area that he had before. the big thing to come out of this, i don't think people who might be watching this, they will do like boris johnson, they will be worried about him, they shouldn't crack open the champagne just yet because he is not going to be under significant imminent political danger tomorrow or the next day as a result of this result. what it does is it simply makes him appear more vulnerable, his authority is weaker and does intensify those conversations which have become more intense about what a post borisjohnson conservative party might look like, a conversation which was barely even audible only a few months ago. even audible only a few months auo. . ~' even audible only a few months auo. . ~ , ., even audible only a few months auo. . ~' ,, ., even audible only a few months auo. . ~' .,, ago. thank you. to stick with us. we ago. thank you. to stick with us- we are — ago. thank you. to stick with us. we are also _ ago. thank you. to stick with us. we are also joined i ago. thank you. to stick with us. we are also joined by i us. we are also joined by polly mackenzie, the chief executive and former chief adviser to nick clegg. and motor saying, special advisor and people present at downing street. the christmas break coming up, chance to take a breath, but this is a punch in the gut for the conservative party. you are a former special advisor. what would your special advice be to the party if you were still in the party if you were still in the job? i think taking stock, listen to what the people have said at this by—election. it very much seems to me a big protest vote, notjust on local issues, which clearly are important, around the nhs and around infrastructure, and also around the big national issues and a series of unforced errors and mishaps in the way things are handled and the way things are communicated by number ten and the wider government. i also think there are some more fundamental things here. one is that this is a long held conservative seat which people would just expect, with a 23,000 majority in a leave voting part of the country, people would expect the conservative party to retain. there is discussion in government around has there been a lot of focus — we were talking about this levelling off agenda, on the north, once labour held seats and other parts of england, and has that been at the cost and the detriment of the safer, more conservative seats. people in government would say no, we want to level up the whole country, however i am not sure that messages really cutting through. i think that probably needs to be looked at as well, and also being more consensual listening more, listening to backbench mp5, bringing them into the conversation, bringing them into the room. you hear time and time again that has just not been happening. there is no obvious policy response to this. it is different to chesham and amersham where hs to planning were big talking points —— hs2. so the government will struggle with an immediate response, and it is notjust about an immediate response, and it is not just about the an immediate response, and it is notjust about the political response but the way things are done and the way things are portrayed. done and the way things are portrayed-— portrayed. talking about oli , portrayed. talking about policy. this _ portrayed. talking about policy, this is _ portrayed. talking about policy, this is a - portrayed. talking about policy, this is a very i policy, this is a very traditional conservative area, voted overwhelmingly in favour of brexit, generally an older population. these are things that are not typically what you would consider liberal democrats territory. it kind of goes against the grain of the liberal democrat party. is that going to cause a problem for helen morgan in her newjob? sorry, is that for me? helen morgan in her new “ob? sorry, is that for me?i sorry, is that for me? polly, can you _ sorry, is that for me? polly, can you hear _ sorry, is that for me? polly, can you hear us? _ sorry, is that for me? polly, can you hear us? sorry, i. can you hear us? sorry, i thought— can you hear us? sorry, i thought you _ can you hear us? sorry, i thought you were - can you hear us? sorry, i thought you were talking j can you hear us? sorry, i. thought you were talking to can you hear us? sorry, i- thought you were talking to mo. ithink— thought you were talking to mo. i think the key thing for me is that— i think the key thing for me is that those characteristics of a conservative area are that it is conservative, older, reasonable, and the key thing here _ reasonable, and the key thing here is— reasonable, and the key thing here is that this is a vote for, _ here is that this is a vote for. i_ here is that this is a vote for, i guess, traditions. the traditions _ for, i guess, traditions. the traditions of integrity and selflessness and honesty and openness in public life. that is, i— openness in public life. that is, ithink. _ openness in public life. that is, ithink, what openness in public life. that is, i think, what is kind of missing _ is, i think, what is kind of missing from the conservative offer — missing from the conservative offer at — missing from the conservative offer at the moment.- offer at the moment. sorry to interru -t offer at the moment. sorry to interruot you. _ offer at the moment. sorry to interrupt you, polly. - offer at the moment. sorry to interrupt you, polly. you i offer at the moment. sorry to | interrupt you, polly. you have talked a lot about integrity and why bolus borisjohnson and the recent scandals have been a problem for the conservative party and helped the liberal democrats win, but when it comes to policies, this is a conservative area. can liberal democrats keep the voters here happy past election day? the crucial thing, _ happy past election day? the crucial thing, of _ happy past election day? i“ie: crucial thing, of course, happy past election day? i“ie: crucialthing, of course, is that the liberal democrats are not the government in north shropshire. a by—election does not change the government. what a backbench mp opposition party can do is essentially stand up for local issues, be a local champion and navigate the policy controversies. there is a question, of course, as to whether the liberal democrats will continue to hold this seat in a national of —— national election. but in a way that is not the way that by—elections have their impact. it is extremely rare that it has a political ripple that changes the balance of votes within parliament, so i think in a way it isjust a parliament, so i think in a way it is just a misunderstanding of what it is like to be a backbench constituency mp. what helen morgan's job now is backbench constituency mp. what helen morgan'sjob now is in terms of working with her constituency, bringing them together and championing local issues in parliament — she has got permission. she has got a narrative. she set it out quite clearly, that she does want to be the voice of the people of north shropshire, but also more broadly the country, in that campaign to bring integrity back to our politics, which she has argued that borisjohnson is simply not delivering with his kind of chaos and lies, as she put it. i think you are completely right that there are cultural barriers, potentially, but that is in a way what is remarkable about the result — is that those traditional conservative voters were willing to relegate any scepticism they might have, either around brexit, around the very aggressive positions the very aggressive positions the liberal democrats took against brexit, trying to reverse brexit, and that labour voters who might still be angry about the 2010 to 2015 coalition in which the liberal democrats supported a conservative government — all of those voters were willing to put aside because the liberal democrats became, as they used to be in the 19905 and early to �*5, a vehicle for simply the voice that we want something different, we want to be taken seriously. a5 something different, we want to be taken seriously. as a place, we want a good local champion, and frankly everything else is relegated to second place. we will have to — relegated to second place. we will have to leave it there. thank you both very much for joining us through the wee hours. we appreciate it. immediately after the declaration, the winning candidate helen morgan spoke to accept her victory. she thanked supporters and then said the result in north shropshire had wider significance for the country. tonight, the people of north shropshire have spoken on behalf of the british people. they've said loudly and clearly, "boris johnson, the party is over." your government, run on lies and bluster, will be held accountable. it will be scrutinised, it will be challenged, and it can and will defeated. across the country, the liberal democrats are taking on the conservatives and winning. in rural shropshire today, just like in buckinghamshire injune, we have won the support of people who have always voted conservative and people who always opposed them. thousands of lifelong conservative voters, dismayed by boris johnson's lack of decency and fed up with being taken for granted, and thousands of lifelong labour voters choosing to lend their vote to the candidate who can defeat the conservatives. people who believe that our politics should be about creating a better country for us all, not a nightly soap opera of calamity and chaos. all of them casting their ballots for the liberal democrats. and let me say specifically to all those labour supporters who lent their votes today, thank you. you have shown tonight that together we can defeat the conservatives, not with deals behind closed doors but with common sense at the ballot box. these are testing times for our country. our nhs, as we know too well here in shropshire, is teetering on the brink. our rural economy is in a precarious state, with people's livelihoods at risk. our country is crying out for leadership. mrjohnson, you are no leader. many of your predecessors took office because they believed in a sense of national service, that they were duty—bound to do what they feel is right for our country — to represent all of us even if we disagreed with them. mrjohnson, this is not how you operate. too often this is all about you and never about us. instead of taking action to help shropshire's nhs, you spend time seeking questionable donations to refurbish your flat. instead of taking action to support shropshire's farmers, you spend your time misleading the nation on how you and your office partied during lockdown. tonight the people of north shropshire have said enough is enough. they have said that you are unfit to lead and that they want a change. i want to pay tribute tonight to my party leader, ed davey. ed, thanks to you, it is the liberal democrats who are opposing borisjohnson's government and winning. from chesham and amersham to north shropshire, you lead our campaigns from the front. i thank you personally for the support you have given me over the past few weeks, whether it is on oxford street or in market drayton, you have led the charge for change. finally, thank you most of all to the people of north shropshire, notjust for your support throughout this campaign, notjust for putting your faith in me to be your champion in parliament, but for all the hard work and sacrifices you have made over the past two years to get our communities through this awful pandemic. i will never take it for granted. my priorities are your priorities — improving our local ambulance service, gps and hospitals, supporting ourfarmers and defending our rural way of life, helping our communities through this new wave of covid. as your mp, i promise i will work for you and only you. i will always put local people and our communities first. whether you supported me or supported someone else, i want to let you know that i am here to represent you and stand up for everyone in north shropshire. thank you. that was helen morgan speaking in north shropshire. the announcement earlier on that the liberal democrats have won the liberal democrats have won the north shropshire by—election, a traditionally safe conservative seat. the total votes for helen morgan were 17,957. the votes for the conservative candidate were 12,032. there is much more on this on the bbc news website and the bbc news app. victoria is here for the top of the hour, but that is me for the night. thank you very much for your company. let's get the weather now with nick. hello. well, thursday brought an east—west split to the uk weather—wise. well, certainly in terms of where we had the blue sky or where we had the grey sky. across parts of eastern scotland and down the eastern side of england, some were treated to a largely sunny day from dawn until dusk, where it was the reverse across some western areas. the view from wales cloudy from dawn until dusk. it's the cloud that's going to win out for friday and the weekend. high pressure, lots of settled weather to come, but trapped underneath this high pressure, plenty of cloud. now, where there will have been some clear spells overnight — parts of eastern scotland, north—east england — a frost to start friday, but also some mist and fog around, and particularly through parts of yorkshire, the east midlands and east anglia. some dense patches in places, perhaps affecting travel, and some may lingerfor much of the day in a few spots. you get the idea for the forecast, though, for friday with lots of cloud around. the cloud thick enough to produce a bit of drizzle here and there. breezy with it through the channel islands into parts of south—west england and south wales. through here, though, there could be a few sunny spells, as there will be towards parts of scotland and again north—east england. temperatures on a par with thursday, although just tending to go a little bit lower, and that's a trend that continues through the weekend. friday night into saturday morning, a lot of cloud around, some mist and fog. again, the clearest skies in scotland, so this is where we're most likely to get a frost as the weekend begins, but there could be a few pockets, too, towards north—east england. with that area of high pressure i showed you earlier, a lot of settled weather over the weekend. a lot of cloud, it'll be mainly dry, and again temperatures just starting to edge down a few degrees over the weekend. and still quite breezy on saturday through the english channel, channel islands, far south—west of england. could be a few brighter breaks here, as there may be towards the far west of wales, more particularly into scotland. elsewhere, a good deal of cloud, fewer temperatures in double figures at this stage. it's mid to high single figures. and plenty of cloud around again on sunday, could be drizzly in a few spots. but there's also a chance of seeing one or two brighter breaks here and there. now, for the most part, temperatures in single figures. it will brighten up into next week, but the trend is for things to turn even colder as we go through the rest of the week in the lead—up to christmas. apart from that, what exactly is on our way christmas weather—wise remains to be seen. this is bbc news. i'm victoria fritz, with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. a huge shock result in a crucial british by—election. the governing conservative party loses one of its safest seats. tonight the people of north shropshire have spoken of behalf of the british people. they said loudly and clearly "borisjohnson, the party is over." it piles new pressure on the prime minister, with questions marks over his future in the job. nightclubs to close and a return to social distancing in the workplace, as wales introduces tougher covid restrictions after christmas.

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