bbc specialists and the correspondence to write blog and broadcast to audiences back home from the dateline london. this week, omicron, a chilling gift for the season of giving. why when it comes to abortion it remains the age of trump and james bond's boss on the danger of china for smaller countries. joining us on the programme, janet bailey who moved to the united states and is now a columnist with the daily telegraph. and our asia—pacific editor. welcome to all of you, good to have you with us as well for the programme. when we discussed in last weekend it had onlyjust been confirmed as a variant of concern. first identified by doctors in south africa, cyril ramaphosa told his countrymen at the weekend that in one province new cases had risen from 500 and day to 1600. stephanie, the message from the white house at least earlier in the week from joe biden was don't panic, but then he, like leaders across the globe, has had to announce restrictions, the latest on friday evening came from ireland where for example nightclubs are now being closed and people are being restricted in the number of families that can be in their households at one time. how would you characterise the global response to this latest, only the latest variant of covid? well everyone is panicking. the market has tanked and that was a sign of the real panic. the reality is we have very little real—world data to cause us panic. yes there are reports coming out of south africa that are worrisome, in particular the reports today that shows the reports today that shows the rate of new infection for people who had covid previously is higher with omicron than with delta and that case numbers are shooting up in south africa but i think it is hard to extrapolate from that. south africa has a relatively young population and a low vaccination rate. on the positive side hospitalisations have not shot up as much as some doctors thought they would. i think the real question is how well will the vaccines perform and we got two different breeds on that this week with the modernity ceo sounding quite pessimistic about how well the vaccines would hold up, and then pfizer in oxford sounding more up eat, particularly on how the vaccines would prevent severe illness and hospitalisation, and i think that is the real question for me, as does this turn out to cause more severe disease or if cases are mild, then this is indeed manageable. the end again here is various scientists have told me is that covid-19 scientists have told me is that covid—i9 morphed into something resembling the common cold. there are four current viruses that cause the common cold, viruses do sometimes mutate to be less virulent rather than more virulent, they want to infect more host so that is the real question and the omicron variant has hopefully spurred more people to get vaccinated, and that is the real tragedy here, is that two years after covid emerged in china, a year after vaccines went into arms, we still have pockets of unvaccinated people in wealthy countries where vaccines are plentiful because they don't believe the science and governments and pharmaceutical companies are not doing enough to get vaccines out across the world so that variants like this don't keep cropping up and prolonging the pandemic any further. . further. celia, the unvaccinated, - further. celia, the unvaccinated, the | further. celia, the - unvaccinated, the hosts as further. celia, the _ unvaccinated, the hosts as it were that we all become if we don't have a vaccine although we can still carry it even if we can still carry it even if we do, how are governments in asia—pacific dealing with that? we know how china deals with it, pretty prospectively but what about more liberal governments? how are they coping with the unvaccinated? it's really interesting to see how democracies in different parts of the world deal with this new challenge, and let's use japan as an this new challenge, and let's usejapan as an example. this new challenge, and let's use japan as an example. back in mayjapan had less than i% of its population vaccinated, and many people were predicting huge problems, because so many people injapan at huge problems, because so many people in japan at that time were expressing scepticism around getting vaccines. however, now we see that around 78% of the population is fully vaccinated. it's incredible, they've kind of lept over many other countries. how have they done it? well mostly because politicians in japan, done it? well mostly because politicians injapan, public figures injapan all expressed figures in japan all expressed a figures injapan all expressed a very strong statement that it was your duty to become vaccinated, you would put others at risk and it seems that many people injapan have really responded to this social pressure, the idea that you really were putting others out if you didn't get vaccinated. couple that with a shortage at first injapan so many people were concerned about getting their vaccine, they rushed to get their vaccine and now we see these really high vaccination rates to go over to singapore where they have just come out this week to say if you are unvaccinated by choice you are unvaccinated by choice you are unvaccinated by choice you are going to have to pay your medical bills if you get covid. iii your medical bills if you get covid. , ., your medical bills if you get covid. i” , . , covid. if you get hospitalised or covid? — covid. if you get hospitalised or covm? absolutely - covid. if you get hospitalised or covid? absolutely or - covid. if you get hospitalised or covid? absolutely or in l or covid? absolutely or in indonesia _ or covid? absolutely or in indonesia they _ indonesia they have said vaccination is mandatory and if you are not vaccinated we are going to buy new and withdraw social services, so we are seeing this range of responses across the region. some of them are still dealing with unvaccinated but in some countries really they are getting quite a strong response.— getting quite a strong response. getting quite a strong resonse. , . ., response. janet we are getting some similar _ response. janet we are getting some similar restrictions - response. janet we are getting some similar restrictions were | some similar restrictions were degree anyway and some european countries, france and austria and now angela merkel is saying the unvaccinated will be restricted from quite a lot of social activities. restricted from quite a lot of socialactivities. is restricted from quite a lot of social activities. is it justified for a majority to impose its will on a minority in this way? are there circumstances where that is defensible?— circumstances where that is defensible? , defensible? this may evoke some unfortunate _ defensible? this may evoke some unfortunate memories _ defensible? this may evoke some unfortunate memories of - defensible? this may evoke some unfortunate memories of some i unfortunate memories of some pretty hideous persecution of minorities in those countries in the past but i think there's an even larger and wider question here and that is seem to have accepted in western democracies that the freedoms and the personal liberties that we have all taken for granted as part of our sort of constitutional heritage are conditional. that governments can take them away. being complicit with this by choice is one thing, that is a perfectly admirable, socially responsible thing to do but when governments can issue edicts, whether it is something relatively trivial like mask wearing or something more serious like when parents not being able to see the grandchildren or saying it's illegal to have a sexual relationship with body your own household, this is going way further than anything east germany ever imposed and i think we have to think about this very carefully. i am not a covid sceptic and i'm not even perhaps a lockdown sceptic this is a tremendous unprecedented move to limit civil liberties and make them contingent on government permission, that the interference in personal life and family life and even among social events among friends is quite extraordinary, and i think we have now set this president and it is going to be very hard to reverse. when does this end? viruses mutate all the time. whenever there is a muted variation is that going to cause the government automatically to resume these oppressive measures? this is a very dangerous little moment. how doesjoe biden respond to that kind of critique? because after all he is actually imposing a vaccination requirement pacifically for example on federal workers? {lin example on federal workers? on federal workers and on companies that has been challenged in congress, recently one of the democratic senators joe recently one of the democratic senatorsjoe mention has said he would come out against that mandate for vaccines for larger companies. i think the uk is an outlier compared to western europe and the us which have far more stringent restrictions both on vaccines and mask wearing. i think vaccine mandate are inevitable. given the tremendous losses that the pandemic has caused on both the economy, mental health, education, i think requiring vaccine in the public square, so to speak, whether that is the workplace, schools, public transportation, shops, what have you, i think that is inevitable. getting vaccination rates up is the only way to end this pandemic and i do question this pandemic and i do question this notion that you can walk around as a sort of walking vector of a deadly disease because you don't believe the science, why should that be allowed when you have publicly funded healthcare systems where you all pay end, itjust doesn't seem fair. i you all pay end, it 'ust doesn't seem fair. i know we will return to this _ doesn't seem fair. i know we will return to this subject - will return to this subject again so we will leave it for now and i think that is a really fascinating debate and it will become more timely as more countries go down this route. now, he is one of the world's best travel characters, wherever you live chances are you've seen at least one james bond movie. 007, i'm sorry to disappoint you, is fictional. m, his boss though, is not. the head of mi6 made a rare appearance and public. he warned of china's debt traps and data traps designed to get smaller countries through its economic policies on the hook. concern about chinese influence lies behind the recent violence in the solomon islands. what has been happening there? it’s has been happening there? it's a ve has been happening there? it�*s a very complex story that goes back decades but basically the solomon islands for some time has really been struggling with grinding poverty, ethnic tensions, we've had protest break out a few times over the years. back in 2019, though, the government in the capital made a decision, a unilateral decision to switch the solomon islands' ties from taiwan over to mainland china, and some of the people on one of the solomon islands' most populous island, my lighter, really took offence to this. they felt that that island in particular, because it's very christian, many people in taiwan are christian, they have a real connection with that and so they criticised the government for making this change and they say no, china has promised us to build a stadium, roads and bridges. to build a stadium, roads and brides. ~ ., , to build a stadium, roads and bridies_ . ., , ., to build a stadium, roads and brides. ~ . , ., ., to build a stadium, roads and bridies_ . ., , ., ., ., bridges. what is that have to do with not _ bridges. what is that have to do with not recognising - bridges. what is that have to i do with not recognising taiwan anymore? it is such a simple thing, it seems.— anymore? it is such a simple thing, it seems. exactly, it is seemingly — thing, it seems. exactly, it is seemingly simple _ thing, it seems. exactly, it is seemingly simple but - thing, it seems. exactly, it is seemingly simple but this . seemingly simple but this week violence really erupted because people on the island say we really haven't seen the benefits of that switch, and so you could say that china has interfered in this and drove these divisions, however the united states has also fuelled some tension and back during the trump administration, $25 million was earmarked, specifically for the island of malaita, and some say fuelling independence desires, and so that money hasn't been given yet however, there has been some concern that really, what is going on in the solomon islands is really tension 20 us and china being played out on a very small scale. i and china being played out on a very small scale.— very small scale. i 'ust want to ick very small scale. i 'ust want to pick up h very small scale. i 'ust want to pick up on _ very small scale. i 'ust want to pick up on that h very small scale. i just want to pick up on that thought i to pick up on that thought stoppages before in janet, stephanie, stoppages before injanet, stephanie, we've talked on this show before aboutjoe biden needing to develop a china strategy. there was a time and a lot of these countries where they looked amazing, look to washington, we are seeing a bit more independence, former japanese prime minister saying hang on, don't touch taiwan or japan will cause you trouble, but does the biden white house get any clearer about its approach to handling china? well, you know, they had these talks a couple of weeks ago, virtual summit between joe biden and president xi jinping and that was meant to ease tensions and the fact that the talks lasted for more than three hours within is a good sign, but i don't think that anyone believes there is any real thaw between washington and beijing happening right now, there are still huge different is over human rights, both in hong kong and with the uyghur muslims, they raised issues, tensions in the south china sea as well as the taiwan strait, and indeed after those talks president xijinping warned that any encouragement of independence, taiwan's independence would be playing with fire, icy us relations with fire, icy us relations with china kind of evolving, in the spring, and the two senior biden officials described their approach to china is moving from one of engagement into one of competition, they seem to be moving back towards engagement i think to put up what the national security adviserjake sullivan calls guard rails to make sure that there no that would cause any, you know, unnecessary conflict. and so they seem to be trying to engage more, biden really wants to engage with china from a position of strength and indeed that was competing with china was part of his sales pitch for the infrastructure bending bill that he signed indeed on the day that he met virtually with president xijinping. has approach has been to cajole allies into backing the us approach to counter china, and that seems to be coming into focus and succeeding but i think the big issue facing both countries as climate change, and the biden administration doesn't seem to be prioritising climate change in its dealings with china is surprising. dated sign thatjoint payment at cop26 by don't think anyone believes that is really going to lead to any meaningful, new cuts in emissions by china and without that we will not get to 1.5 degrees global warming targets. 1.5 degrees global warming taraets. . ., , 1.5 degrees global warming taraets. ., , ., 1.5 degrees global warming taraets. ., ., ., targets. clearly one area where engagement. _ targets. clearly one area where engagement, janet, _ targets. clearly one area where engagement, janet, is - targets. clearly one area where engagement, janet, is of- targets. clearly one area where engagement, janet, is of value j engagement, janet, is of value in terms of kind of the bigger objectives thatjoe biden has. but what about this relationship with countries like the solomon islands, these debt traps, as em was putting it. i remember going to dominique, a tiny island and talking to locals there who are very resentful, they loved the free sports stadium they were given by the chinese but they really did present the fact that the roads were being built by chinese and not locals. you have to remember _ by chinese and not locals. you have to remember this really is not like — have to remember this really is not like the cold war, it isn't etiological, china is not a communist sense in any way that the marxists would understand. we have — the marxists would understand. we have a separate bush was they— we have a separate bush was they who _ we have a separate bush was they who are ferocious consumers and a very active player— consumers and a very active player in— consumers and a very active player in the world markets when — player in the world markets when it _ player in the world markets when it is really impure conquest of territory and economic domination —— bourgeoisie. it's theft of international ——ip is notorious has _ international ——ip is notorious has no — international ——ip is notorious has no hold _ international ——ip is notorious has no hold bars reaction to the altered states and all powers _ the altered states and all powers and we're not talking about — powers and we're not talking about an _ powers and we're not talking about an aetiological stand—off with china not going around trying to— with china not going around trying to convert what used to be called _ trying to convert what used to be called third world countries. what it wants is to buy them _ countries. what it wants is to buy them up and it wants to buy a very— buy them up and it wants to buy a very often their minerals, especially, and we have heard so much — especially, and we have heard so much about lithium so this has to— so much about lithium so this has to be _ so much about lithium so this has to be confronted in a completely different way. it is almost — completely different way. it is almost a _ completely different way. it is almost a kind of return to the 19th—century of the very earliest _ 19th—century of the very earliest 20 century, this is either— earliest 20 century, this is either impending first world war than anything else. so trying _ war than anything else. so trying to— war than anything else. so trying to counter the chinese position. _ trying to counter the chinese position, the chinese offer, as it were, — position, the chinese offer, as it were, with argument is going to get— it were, with argument is going to get you _ it were, with argument is going to get you nowhere. this is a real— to get you nowhere. this is a real straightforward battle for world — real straightforward battle for world domination. i don't think joe world domination. idon't think joe biden— world domination. i don't think joe biden pulmicort that yet. so -- — joe biden pulmicort that yet. so —— courts that yet. in some ways you may say that's fine but why on earth is the head of m16 but why on earth is the head of mi6 worried about that. is russia more of an immediate threat to them than china? russia is in a medium threat in terms — russia is in a medium threat in terms of— russia is in a medium threat in terms of europe, particularly, because — terms of europe, particularly, because they are about to invade _ because they are about to invade ukraine, ithink, but the — invade ukraine, ithink, but the long—term threat, china wants— the long—term threat, china wants to _ the long—term threat, china wants to be the number one power— wants to be the number one power economically and militarily and in terms of territory— militarily and in terms of territory and they are now actively _ territory and they are now actively going out, claiming bits of— actively going out, claiming bits of the world that they say they— bits of the world that they say they have a territorial right to, as _ they have a territorial right to, as does russia, too, but on a more — to, as does russia, too, but on a more locat— to, as does russia, too, but on a more local scale. so it is not — a more local scale. so it is not fine _ a more local scale. so it is not fine it— a more local scale. so it is not fine. it isjust a more local scale. so it is not fine. it is just that you have — not fine. it is just that you have to _ not fine. it is just that you have to confront it in the way, kind _ have to confront it in the way, kind of— have to confront it in the way, kind of down and dirty really, you have _ kind of down and dirty really, you have to confront it in the way — you have to confront it in the way that _ you have to confront it in the way that we would have confronted the nanami before the nuclear age and before the a-e the nuclear age and before the age of— the nuclear age and before the age of aetiology.— age of aetiology. don't try to strike a dragon. _ age of aetiology. don't try to strike a dragon. -- - age of aetiology. don't try to | strike a dragon. -- aetiology. strike a dragon. —— aetiology. i mention shinzo abe, is a more confident, do you think, in saint china hang on, stop and think about what you were doing? i think when it comes to taiwan, there is a lot of anxiety in the region at the moment. we saw four years key players, us, china and taiwan all wanted to keep the status quo but in recent years have altered their behaviour, china has become more assertive, built up its military, the united states has certainly changed its taiwan policy with trump, donald trump ausmat famous first phone call foreign phone call was to taiwan public president tsai and when and biden has changed the policy significantly and then of course we have taiwan which has refused to accept beijing's offer of a one country to systems, in what has been very clear that in taiwan as an independent state to its president so they have been watching these changes and they are adopting themselves and i think that is why presumably japan wants to increase the cost to china, if china really wants to invade or even impose a blockade on taiwan, japan is starting to speak up. everything has a price, thank you. donald trump may turn out to have been america's most important president since ronald reagan. reagan passed more and more long lasting legislation both men appointed to the supreme court those believed to be conservatives, it's the trump justices though rather than the reagan ones who turn out to be more ideological inconsistent, decisively tilting the court in their decision. the arguments on abortion could be one of america's most important days in court for many along the years. janet, remind us first of all what the status quo is in terms of abortion and what significance we should attach to some of the things that are being set on wednesday? well, it is ruite being set on wednesday? well, it is quite astonishing _ being set on wednesday? well, it is quite astonishing that - it is quite astonishing that all these years after roe v wade _ all these years after roe v wade and all of these is after what — wade and all of these is after what seemed to be a general acceptance of the idea of a right— acceptance of the idea of a right not— acceptance of the idea of a right not necessarily a right to abortion but a right not to have — to abortion but a right not to have abortion made in legal, is quite _ have abortion made in legal, is quite complex constitutionally, but that — quite complex constitutionally, but that should be under such heated — but that should be under such heated dispute. i mean, countries traditionally catholic like ireland have legalised abortion. without really— legalised abortion. without really very much fuss in recent years — really very much fuss in recent years and _ really very much fuss in recent years. and not very long ago, 20 years— years. and not very long ago, 20 years ago, so they were actually— 20 years ago, so they were actually prohibiting a teenage, young — actually prohibiting a teenage, young teenage girl who had become pregnant from travelling to the _ become pregnant from travelling to the uk to have an abortion. i to the uk to have an abortion. i mean. — to the uk to have an abortion. i mean. it's— to the uk to have an abortion. i mean, it's gone very quickly that— i mean, it's gone very quickly that kind _ i mean, it's gone very quickly that kind of social revolution. but in — that kind of social revolution. but in america, this is much, it goes— but in america, this is much, it goes back way before trumpet, it goes back even before _ trumpet, it goes back even before reagan. it's a cultural total— before reagan. it's a cultural total now, this totemic issue of abortion. it isn't even limited _ of abortion. it isn't even limited to certain religions or certain— limited to certain religions or certain kind of faith—based arguments, it's a rebellion against _ arguments, it's a rebellion against what is considered to be a — against what is considered to be a cosmopolitan liberal elite _ be a cosmopolitan liberal elite. imposing the values on the great _ elite. imposing the values on the great mass of the population who, you know, reject— population who, you know, reject those values. i mean, it's-i — reject those values. i mean, it's—i cannot see any solution to this, — it's—i cannot see any solution to this, frankly. what you are implying _ to this, frankly. what you are implying isjudicial activism. but has _ implying isjudicial activism. but has been a subject for a very— but has been a subject for a very long _ but has been a subject for a very long time and franklin roosevelt packed the supreme court _ roosevelt packed the supreme court and otherjustices to the supreme — court and otherjustices to the supreme court in order to get his new— supreme court in order to get his new deal legislation through so the idea that supreme courtjustices have supreme court justices have political— supreme courtjustices have political powers is not new and they— political powers is not new and they are — political powers is not new and they are there to interpret the constitution but of course they interpreted in the terms of their— interpreted in the terms of their own political beliefs and that inevitably i think. it that inevitably i think. creates that inevitably i think. it creates a paradox doesn't it stephanie because in a sense the big critique wasjudicial activism but coming from the liberals under come from the left and i had created all of these new rights the 20 envisaged by the constitution. now it seems some of the rights they created conservative think actually could be uncreated because i shouldn't have been created by courts in the first place. created by courts in the first lace. ., �* , ., created by courts in the first lace. . �*, ., .,, place. yeah, it's a false dichotomy _ place. yeah, it's a false dichotomy now, - place. yeah, it's a false dichotomy now, it - place. yeah, it's a false dichotomy now, it doesj place. yeah, it's a false - dichotomy now, it does not really — dichotomy now, it does not really work _ dichotomy now, it does not really work anymore, - dichotomy now, it does not really work anymore, and l dichotomy now, it does not| really work anymore, and in fact— really work anymore, and in fact what— really work anymore, and in fact what you _ really work anymore, and in fact what you see _ really work anymore, and in fact what you see our- fact what you see our conservatives - fact what you see ouri conservatives pushing fact what you see our- conservatives pushing their fact what you see our— conservatives pushing their own brand _ conservatives pushing their own brand of— conservatives pushing their own brand ofjudicial_ conservatives pushing their own brand ofjudicial activism, - brand ofjudicial activism, especialty— brand ofjudicial activism, especially over— brand ofjudicial activism, especially over the - brand ofjudicial activism, especially over the past . brand ofjudicial activism, - especially over the past 10—20 years. — especially over the past 10—20 years. through _ especially over the past 10—20 years, through this _ especially over the past 10—20 years, through this weblog - years, through this weblog machine _ years, through this weblog machine called _ years, through this weblog machine called the - years, through this weblog machine called the federalj machine called the federal society— machine called the federal society they _ machine called the federal society they have - machine called the federal society they have used - machine called the federal society they have used toi machine called the federal- society they have used to stack the court — society they have used to stack the court with _ society they have used to stack the court with conservative - the court with conservative judges _ the court with conservative judges and _ the court with conservative judges. and they— the court with conservative judges. and they want - the court with conservative judges. and they want to l judges. and they want to overturn— judges. and they want to overturn a _ judges. and they want to overturn a precedent - judges. and they want to l overturn a precedent which judges. and they want to - overturn a precedent which is roe _ overturn a precedent which is roe v — overturn a precedent which is roe v wade _ overturn a precedent which is roe v wade that _ overturn a precedent which is roe v wade that has - overturn a precedent which is roe v wade that has been i roe v wade that has been established. _ roe v wade that has been established. so— roe v wade that has been established. so it's - roe v wade that has been established. so it's reallyl established. so it's really been _ established. so it's really been turned _ established. so it's really been turned upside - established. so it's reallyl been turned upside down. established. so it's really- been turned upside down. we are seeing, _ been turned upside down. we are seeing, as— been turned upside down. we are seeing, as you _ been turned upside down. we are seeing, as you indicated, - been turned upside down. we are seeing, as you indicated, the - seeing, as you indicated, the long — seeing, as you indicated, the long arm _ seeing, as you indicated, the tong arm of— seeing, as you indicated, the long arm of the _ seeing, as you indicated, the long arm of the trompe - long arm of the trompe presidency— long arm of the trompe presidency here - long arm of the trompe i presidency here because long arm of the trompe - presidency here because he has transformed _ presidency here because he has transformed this— presidency here because he has transformed this court - presidency here because he has transformed this court with, - presidency here because he has transformed this court with, byl transformed this court with, by appointing _ transformed this court with, by appointing three _ transformed this court with, by appointing three justices - transformed this court with, by appointing three justices who l appointing three justices who sounded _ appointing three justices who sounded a _ appointing three justices who sounded a very _ appointing three justices who sounded a very different - appointing three justices who j sounded a very different tune on wednesday— sounded a very different tune on wednesday than _ sounded a very different tune on wednesday than they- sounded a very different tune on wednesday than they did i on wednesday than they did during — on wednesday than they did during their— on wednesday than they did during their confirmation - during their confirmation hearings _ during their confirmation hearings in _ during their confirmation hearings in the - during their confirmation hearings in the senate. i during their confirmation - hearings in the senate. brett cavanagh _ hearings in the senate. brett cavanagh and _ hearings in the senate. brett cavanagh and amy _ hearings in the senate. brett cavanagh and amy coney - hearings in the senate. brett- cavanagh and amy coney barrett, the two _ cavanagh and amy coney barrett, the two of — cavanagh and amy coney barrett, the two of the _ cavanagh and amy coney barrett, the two of the trompe _ cavanagh and amy coney barrett, the two of the trompe nominees, | the two of the trompe nominees, to the _ the two of the trompe nominees, to the court. _ the two of the trompe nominees, to the court, you _ the two of the trompe nominees, to the court, you know, - the two of the trompe nominees, to the court, you know, during i to the court, you know, during their— to the court, you know, during their senate _ to the court, you know, during their senate confirmation - their senate confirmation hearings, _ their senate confirmation hearings, were, - their senate confirmation hearings, were, brett- their senate confirmation - hearings, were, brett cavanagh said he — hearings, were, brett cavanagh said he viewed _ hearings, were, brett cavanagh said he viewed roe _ hearings, were, brett cavanagh said he viewed roe v— hearings, were, brett cavanagh said he viewed roe v wade - hearings, were, brett cavanagh said he viewed roe v wade as. hearings, were, brett cavanagh| said he viewed roe v wade as a settled — said he viewed roe v wade as a settled law— said he viewed roe v wade as a settled law under— said he viewed roe v wade as a settled law under the _ settled law under the established - settled law under the i established precedents, settled law under the - established precedents, but it could — established precedents, but it could not— established precedents, but it could not be _ established precedents, but it could not be overturned. - established precedents, but it could not be overturned. andl could not be overturned. and amy— could not be overturned. and amy coney— could not be overturned. and amy coney barrett _ could not be overturned. and amy coney barrett made - could not be overturned. and i amy coney barrett made similar kinds _ amy coney barrett made similar kinds of— amy coney barrett made similar kinds of noises _ amy coney barrett made similar kinds of noises about _ amy coney barrett made similar kinds of noises about she - amy coney barrett made similar kinds of noises about she would | kinds of noises about she would not use — kinds of noises about she would not use her_ kinds of noises about she would not use her personal _ kinds of noises about she would not use her personal views - kinds of noises about she would not use her personal views to l not use her personal views to interpret _ not use her personal views to interpret the _ not use her personal views to interpret the law. _ not use her personal views to interpret the law. and - not use her personal views to interpret the law. and what l interpret the law. and what they— interpret the law. and what they said _ interpret the law. and what they said on _ interpret the law. and what they said on wednesday - interpret the law. and whatl they said on wednesday was interpret the law. and what - they said on wednesday was very much _ they said on wednesday was very much about— they said on wednesday was very much about well, _ they said on wednesday was very much about well, brett _ they said on wednesday was very much about well, brett cavanaghj much about well, brett cavanagh said why— much about well, brett cavanagh said why should _ much about well, brett cavanagh said why should abortion - much about well, brett cavanagh said why should abortion be - much about well, brett cavanagh said why should abortion be an . said why should abortion be an issue _ said why should abortion be an issue for— said why should abortion be an issue for the _ said why should abortion be an issue for the supreme - said why should abortion be an issue for the supreme court, l issue for the supreme court, indicating _ issue for the supreme court, indicating he _ issue for the supreme court, indicating he thought - issue for the supreme court, indicating he thought that. issue for the supreme court, | indicating he thought that the states, — indicating he thought that the states, it _ indicating he thought that the states, it should _ indicating he thought that the states, it should be _ indicating he thought that the states, it should be kicked i states, it should be kicked back— states, it should be kicked back to _ states, it should be kicked back to the _ states, it should be kicked back to the individual - states, it should be kicked. back to the individual states to handle _ back to the individual states to handle. in— back to the individual states to handle. in reality, - back to the individual states to handle. in reality, what l back to the individual states . to handle. in reality, what you have _ to handle. in reality, what you have thus _ to handle. in reality, what you have thus made _ to handle. in reality, what you have thus made by— to handle. in reality, what you have thus made by all- have thus made by all indications, _ have thus made by all indications, the - have thus made by all- indications, the conservative majority _ indications, the conservative majority wilt _ indications, the conservative majority will look _ indications, the conservative majority will look back - indications, the conservative majority will look back row . indications, the conservative majority will look back row v wade, — majority will look back row v wade, we _ majority will look back row v wade, we don't— majority will look back row v wade, we don't know- majority will look back row v wade, we don't know how. majority will look back row v . wade, we don't know how they will exptain _ wade, we don't know how they will explain it, _ wade, we don't know how they will explain it, how— wade, we don't know how they will explain it, how far- wade, we don't know how they will explain it, how far they - will explain it, how far they will— will explain it, how far they will go. _ will explain it, how far they will go. but _ will explain it, how far they will go, but already, - will explain it, how far they will go, but already, you i will explain it, how far they i will go, but already, you have more — will go, but already, you have more than _ will go, but already, you have more than 20 _ will go, but already, you have more than 20 us _ will go, but already, you have more than 20 us states - will go, but already, you have more than 20 us states that i more than 20 us states that have — more than 20 us states that have abortion _ more than 20 us states that have abortion laws - more than 20 us states that have abortion laws on - more than 20 us states that have abortion laws on their. have abortion laws on their books _ have abortion laws on their books that— have abortion laws on their books that would _ have abortion laws on their books that would get - have abortion laws on their. books that would get triggered should — books that would get triggered should there _ books that would get triggered should there be _ books that would get triggered should there be any _ books that would get triggered should there be any rollback . books that would get triggeredj should there be any rollback or change — should there be any rollback or change to _ should there be any rollback or change to row _ should there be any rollback or change to row v _ should there be any rollback or change to row v wade - should there be any rollback or change to row v wade and - should there be any rollback or change to row v wade and in. change to row v wade and in effect, — change to row v wade and in effect, you _ change to row v wade and in effect, you would _ change to row v wade and in effect, you would have - change to row v wade and in. effect, you would have abortion out for — effect, you would have abortion out for the _ effect, you would have abortion out for the -- _ effect, you would have abortion out for the —— outlet _ effect, you would have abortion out for the —— outlet or- out for the —— outlet or severely _ out for the —— outlet or severely curtailed - out for the —— outlet or severely curtailed in i out for the —— outlet or. severely curtailed in more out for the —— outlet or- severely curtailed in more than half of— severely curtailed in more than half of the _ severely curtailed in more than half of the united _ severely curtailed in more than half of the united states - severely curtailed in more than half of the united states it. half of the united states if the us— half of the united states if the us supreme _ half of the united states if the us supreme court - half of the united states ifl the us supreme court goes half of the united states if- the us supreme court goes ahead and does — the us supreme court goes ahead and does this _ the us supreme court goes ahead and does this. this _ the us supreme court goes ahead and does this. this is— the us supreme court goes ahead and does this. this is an - and does this. this is an earthquake. _ and does this. this is an earthquake. this- and does this. this is an earthquake. this is- and does this. this is an| earthquake. this is huge and does this. this is an . earthquake. this is huge if they— earthquake. this is huge if they go— earthquake. this is huge if they go ahead _ earthquake. this is huge if they go ahead with - earthquake. this is huge if they go ahead with it. - earthquake. this is huge if they go ahead with it. this earthquake. this is huge if. they go ahead with it. this is they go ahead with it. this is the case _ they go ahead with it. this is the case they— they go ahead with it. this is the case they have _ they go ahead with it. this is the case they have been - they go ahead with it. this is i the case they have been waiting for for— the case they have been waiting for for years _ the case they have been waiting for for years. and _ the case they have been waiting for for years. and there - the case they have been waiting for for years. and there is - for for years. and there is huge _ for for years. and there is huge pressure _ for for years. and there is huge pressure on - for for years. and there is huge pressure on those . huge pressure on those conservatives _ huge pressure on those conservatives that - huge pressure on those conservatives that have huge pressure on those - conservatives that have joined the court _ conservatives that have joined the court recently _ conservatives that have joined the court recently by, - the court recently by, caligula, _ the court recently by, caligula, organisation the court recently by, - caligula, organisation and federalist _ caligula, organisation and federalist society- caligula, organisation and federalist society to - caligula, organisation and federalist society to hold i federalist society to hold their— federalist society to hold their ground _ federalist society to hold their ground because - federalist society to hold . their ground because some federalist society to hold - their ground because some of their ground because some of the decisions _ their ground because some of the decisions in _ their ground because some of the decisions in the _ their ground because some of the decisions in the past - the decisions in the past couple _ the decisions in the past coupte of— the decisions in the past couple of years - the decisions in the past couple of years on - the decisions in the past i couple of years on abortion cases— couple of years on abortion cases did _ couple of years on abortion cases did not _ couple of years on abortion cases did not go _ couple of years on abortion cases did not go their- couple of years on abortion cases did not go their way. cases did not go their way sow _ cases did not go their way so... ,, , . cases did not go their way so- - -_ huge l cases did not go their way - so. . ._ huge focus so... stephanie... huge focus on all how— so... stephanie... huge focus on all how this _ so... stephanie... huge focus on all how this goes _ so... stephanie... huge focus on all how this goes down - on all how this goes down crosstalk. _ on all how this goes down crosstalk._ on all how this goes down crosstalk. ~ ., ., ., crosstalk. will have to wait for a while — crosstalk. will have to wait for a while for _ crosstalk. will have to wait for a while for the _ crosstalk. will have to wait for a while for the actual- for a while for the actual judgement to come and just in the last minute we have, there is an argument for it, isn't that, this has come about because of the law in mississippi that was being debated and we have another law in texas that is being introduced they could health the rise apparently established by row v wade and this is in the rise apparently established by row v wade and this is indiana the animatorfor indiana the animator for elected politicians, isn't it, not for a bunch of nine older people who were elected by nobody and got rid of nobody because they could die in office. �* , ., office. let's turn our attention _ office. let's turn our attention to - office. let's turn our attention to the - office. let's turn our i attention to the elected politicians in the united states and many argue that elected politicians, those branches of government, they are too polarised to really govern effectively. therefore the us supreme court is stepping in to make the decisions that the us senate, the us congress, the white house are unable to solve. than house are unable to solve. an interesting thing, the us congress has never made a law as far as i'm aware on abortion, it is a to the judges and the states which is an interesting question itself. it daily, stephanie baker and celia, thank you and thank you all very much for being with us and thank you for being with us for that one this week, we're back sometime next week, do join us then goodbye. hello there. it's been very cold everywhere across the uk on saturday. we've seen increasing amounts of snow across southern south east scotland and across northern england, mainly over the pennines. sunday is also going to be another cold day — maybe not quite as cold because the winds won't be as strong as saturday — and there will be further rain, most of the rain towards the eastern side of the country. we've still got that cold air mass across the uk but, like i mentioned, the winds won't be quite as strong across northern and western areas, thanks to this ridge of high pressure. these weather fronts across the east and certainly the north—east will bring further rain, so it could be quite wet again across south east scotland into the north east of england. that rain continues through the day — some localised flooding in places and further wintriness over the higher ground. further south, i think most of the showers will slowly ease down through the day but leave a legacy of cloud. the winds quite strong across the eastern side of the country. but apart from the odd shower further north and west, there should be quite a bit of sunshine around here with lighter winds. shouldn't feel too bad — top temperatures 9 or 10 degrees across the far south—west and into the channel islands. looks like that rain will eventually ease away for a time through sunday night but then we look to the west — a new frontal system will work its way in to bring another band of rain and, again, we'll see some sleet and snow over the pennines and across the scottish hills as it bumps into the cold air, but the east of england will stay dry until later in the morning. so, this frontal system will work its way eastwards across the country through monday, then it turns colder again with a run of west—north—westerly winds, which will be quite strong, feeding in plenty of showers. so, quite wet across much of the country through monday morning. that rain eventually clears off into the north sea, taking the mountain snow with it. and then it's a brighter afternoon for many with some blustery showers — some of these will be heavy and frequent across the north—west and turning increasingly wintry once again. it's a blustery day. those are mean wind speeds. gusts will be high, particularly around some irish sea coasts. and it will feel chilly again — temperatures of 3—8 celsius. then we look to the atlantic. the potential of this deep area of low pressure to develop and hurtle in towards ireland, and then the uk as we push through tuesday and wednesday. still some uncertainty to its track but i think we're pretty sure they could bring some wet and very windy weather on tuesday and wednesday, so do stay tuned to the forecast. welcome to bbc news — i'm lucy grey. our top stories... president biden and president putin agree to hold talks as russia's military build—up on the ukrainian border sends tensions soaring. the parents of a teenager suspected of a deadly school shooting have pleaded �*not guilty�* to involuntary manslaughter — after they were found hiding in a basement. and — the us network cnn fires its leading anchor, chris cuomo — the brother of the former governor of new york. and the closures among britain's smaller abattoirs causing a crisis for farmers, and the rural economy. we have a special report. there has to be a purpose for you are making money, looking after the lifestyle, producing things that customers were buy and be happy with but it reaches a