service workers. we wa nt we want to look at our laws and be proud of it and to be able to say, yeah, you know, that's what should be happening. and so to reach this point with harper at�*s law, i'm really proud of all the work that we've done. labour accuses borisjohnson of breaking promises about the funding of social care and questions his recent performance. is everything 0k, prime minister? well, _ is everything 0k, prime minister? well, mister speaker, itell you what_ well, mister speaker, itell you what is— well, mister speaker, itell you what is working, _ well, mister speaker, itell you what is working, it's _ well, mister speaker, itell you what is working, it's that - well, mister speaker, itell you what is working, it's that line . well, mister speaker, itellyou| what is working, it's that line of attack — two men have been arrested on suspicion of murder after a body is found in the search for 18—year—old bobbi—anne mcleod in former england cricket captain michael vaughan is dropped from the bbc�*s ashes coverage after being accused of making a racist remark. he's denied the allegation. hello and welcome to bbc news. our coverage, knitted by news breaking in the last hour or so. more than 20 people are reported to have died while trying to cross the english channel to the uk. it's understood a fishing boat sounded the alarm after spotting a number of people in the water off the coast of france. unconfirmed reports say that an inflatable dinghy capsized near calais. the local mayor has told french television that in fact 2a bodies have been recovered. a rescue operation is under way, with both french and british authorities involved in searching for anyone still in the water. asa as a conceit very much a developing situation in terms of the number of people caught up in this. the numbers do vary slightly depending which news agency and which reports we are all looking at, but certainly it does appear to be a very grim loss of life. we will try to reflect on this and keep you up—to—date with this throughout the afternoon. earlier, my colleage rebecca jones spoke to our correspondent simonjones, who told her what was known so far. what we know is this is clearly a major incident and a large number of people have lost their lives in the english channel. these were migrants who had set off we presume from the beaches of northern france heading towards the uk. now we know that a boat was spotted by a passing fisherman, a boat that has sank or was starting to sink, and we know there have been a number of deaths. now we are waiting for a final confirmation on the figure and in fact the authorities may still be trying to work that out because we understand a number of unconscious people were pulled from the water. the french interior minister, who has been at the heart trying to address this issue of migrants heading across the channel, is heading across the channel, is heading to calais himself. he is talking about numerous deaths in this incident. we also have heard from the french prime minister who is talking about a tragedy in the channel so i think that gives you some sense of the scale of what we are talking about. we have been discussing a lot in recent weeks the number of migrants who have been crossing the channel to the uk. it's almost week 6,000 people have succeeded in making thejourney almost week 6,000 people have succeeded in making the journey and many thousands more have not succeeded in reaching the uk. they have got into trouble in the channel and their boats have been picked up by the french authorities. now we understand that up to ten migrants have drowned in recent weeks trying to reach the uk, but it appears today's incident is even bigger than that and that is going to be a huge concern for the authorities, the french my ministry saying his thoughts are with all those involved in what he is describing as this tragedy. in what he is describing as this traced . . in what he is describing as this traced. . .,, ., in what he is describing as this traced. . ., tragedy. that was our correspondent simon jones — tragedy. that was our correspondent simon jones just _ tragedy. that was our correspondent simon jones just in _ tragedy. that was our correspondent simon jones just in the _ tragedy. that was our correspondent simon jonesjust in the last - tragedy. that was our correspondent simon jonesjust in the last half - tragedy. that was our correspondent simon jonesjust in the last half an l simonjones just in the last half an hour or so. and just to bring you a couple of other pieces of information about all of this, in terms of the really grim death toll that we are excitedly reflecting on here today, we are just hearing that the international organisation for migration has described this as the biggest single loss of life in the channel since they began collecting data in 2014. so it appears tragically to be the worst situation that we've seen in terms of the number of people who have died just in one single boat, possibly, certainly one single day. the biggest single loss of life in the channel since 2014 according to one organisation that is very much involved in this was them and just to tell you that we are hearing that in parliamentary terms, the premise is going to be chairing an emergency cobra meeting a little later today to discuss this. so seems there will be on emergency cobra briefing, cabinet emergency briefing chaired by the prime minister to discuss this loss of life. joining me now is natalie elphicke, the mp for dover. good afternoon. first of all, just in terms of the human situation here, what is your understanding? what are you hearing about what is happening here?— what are you hearing about what is happening here? well, this is such a traced happening here? well, this is such a tragedy and — happening here? well, this is such a tragedy and everyone _ happening here? well, this is such a tragedy and everyone is _ happening here? well, this is such a tragedy and everyone is absolutely l tragedy and everyone is absolutely shocked~ _ tragedy and everyone is absolutely shocked~ i— tragedy and everyone is absolutely shocked. i am tragedy and everyone is absolutely shocked. lam hearing tragedy and everyone is absolutely shocked. i am hearing that the numbers— shocked. i am hearing that the numbers as has been indicated may be more than _ numbers as has been indicated may be more than 20, certainly the latest update _ more than 20, certainly the latest update we — more than 20, certainly the latest update i've had is they may be as many— update i've had is they may be as many as— update i've had is they may be as many as 30 _ update i've had is they may be as many as 30. so it is a significant appalling — many as 30. so it is a significant appalling event to happen, and everyone — appalling event to happen, and everyone isjust really shocked appalling event to happen, and everyone is just really shocked and concerned — everyone is just really shocked and concerned about it. it is everyone isjust really shocked and concerned about it. it is november, it is cold, conditions _ concerned about it. it is november, it is cold, conditions are _ concerned about it. it is november, it is cold, conditions are very - concerned about it. it is november, it is cold, conditions are very far - it is cold, conditions are very far from ideal. does that not tell us just how desperate people are? they know what they're risking and they are still trying to reach safety in this country. are still trying to reach safety in this country-— this country. the seas are incredibly _ this country. the seas are incredibly dangerous. - this country. the seas are incredibly dangerous. alll this country. the seas are i incredibly dangerous. all of this country. the seas are - incredibly dangerous. all of the year. _ incredibly dangerous. all of the year. but — incredibly dangerous. all of the year, but particularly as winter approaches, and that's what i've been _ approaches, and that's what i've been calling for some time to say that we _ been calling for some time to say that we must make sure that those boats _ that we must make sure that those boats are _ that we must make sure that those boats are not leaving the french shores — boats are not leaving the french shores it — boats are not leaving the french shores. it is an incredibly dangerous journey. shores. it is an incredibly dangerousjourney. there has been loss of— dangerousjourney. there has been loss of life. — dangerousjourney. there has been loss of life, and today we have had to see _ loss of life, and today we have had to see unimaginable loss in a single event, _ to see unimaginable loss in a single event, and — to see unimaginable loss in a single event, and it cannot happen again. but how— event, and it cannot happen again. but how is— event, and it cannot happen again. but how is it — event, and it cannot happen again. but how is it stopped, then? how do you stop it?— you stop it? well, we have been in a situation where _ you stop it? well, we have been in a situation where you _ you stop it? well, we have been in a situation where you can _ you stop it? well, we have been in a situation where you can government| situation where you can government has provided money and surveillance and a _ has provided money and surveillance and a number of other forms of assistance _ and a number of other forms of assistance to the french. now i do think— assistance to the french. now i do think the _ assistance to the french. now i do think the time has come to make sure that there _ think the time has come to make sure that there are people on the beaches from the _ that there are people on the beaches from the uk, from france and from other— from the uk, from france and from other european countries to make sure that — other european countries to make sure that there are patrols sufficient to stop the boats leaving, to make sure they are turned — leaving, to make sure they are turned around while they are still close _ turned around while they are still close to — turned around while they are still close to french waters where it is much _ close to french waters where it is much more — close to french waters where it is much more safe to do so and to bring an end _ much more safe to do so and to bring an end to— much more safe to do so and to bring an end to this — much more safe to do so and to bring an end to this crossing crisis. people's _ an end to this crossing crisis. people's emigrants do not care about the lives _ people's emigrants do not care about the lives they are putting at risk. and it _ the lives they are putting at risk. and it is — the lives they are putting at risk. and it is absolutely unacceptable that they continue to ply their trade — that they continue to ply their trade was that we need to work together— trade was that we need to work together swiftly, move forward and finally _ together swiftly, move forward and finally bring this to an end.- finally bring this to an end. french olice 'ust finally bring this to an end. french police just telling _ finally bring this to an end. french police just telling us _ finally bring this to an end. french police just telling us that - finally bring this to an end. french police just telling us that the - police just telling us that the death toll has already risen to 27. it is a truly, truly grim day. of course it is the people smugglers who are the criminals, and they are exploiting people, but the risk the people are clearly willing to take, what does that tell us about the way the asylum system works or as some charities would say does not work with me what about those charities who say can we not find a way of allowing people to put in an asylum request without actually being on these shores because people are trying to get to the shores and that is why west people are taking this small boat risk because they are getting sold these trips by the people smugglers. it is getting sold these trips by the people smugglers. it is dangerous, it is criminal _ people smugglers. it is dangerous, it is criminal activity _ people smugglers. it is dangerous, it is criminal activity and _ people smugglers. it is dangerous, it is criminal activity and it - it is criminal activity and it should _ it is criminal activity and it should have been stopped a long time a-o. should have been stopped a long time ago there _ should have been stopped a long time ago. there have been lives lost before — ago. there have been lives lost before now. this single biggest tragedy— before now. this single biggest tragedy is a wake—up call that now the small— tragedy is a wake—up call that now the small boats crossings must come to an _ the small boats crossings must come to an end _ the small boats crossings must come to an end. people are safe in france — to an end. people are safe in france. they need to be kept safe in france _ france. they need to be kept safe in france and _ france. they need to be kept safe in france and out of the hands of people who are putting them at risk on the _ people who are putting them at risk on the french beaches, and the uk and french— on the french beaches, and the uk and french governments must redouble their resolve and make sure that they now — their resolve and make sure that they now bring an end to the small boats— they now bring an end to the small boats crossings route. it is dangerous, it is winter and we must stop these _ dangerous, it is winter and we must stop these tragic events happening again _ stop these tragic events happening again~ for— stop these tragic events happening aaain. ., ., ., ,, i. ~ again. for now, thank you, the mp for dover. — again. for now, thank you, the mp for dover, conservative _ again. for now, thank you, the mp for dover, conservative mp - again. for now, thank you, the mp for dover, conservative mp for- for dover, conservative mp for dover. this boat, like so many others, trying to journey from calais to dover. difficult conditions, the boat capsized and thatis conditions, the boat capsized and that is as much as we know at the moment butjust to reiterate that figure, the french police in the last few moments saying that for sure 27 people have died. let's look at the picture from france as well. let's speak to our correspondent, hugh schofield, who is in paris. you may have heard the mp for dover there and we have heard before it we see in the uk there is a narrative that france should be doing more. well, indeed. we hear this a lot, and of— well, indeed. we hear this a lot, and of course _ well, indeed. we hear this a lot, and of course they— well, indeed. we hear this a lot, and of course they are _ well, indeed. we hear this a lot, and of course they are very- and of course they are very sensitive _ and of course they are very sensitive to the _ and of course they are very sensitive to the criticism, i and of course they are very. sensitive to the criticism, and and of course they are very- sensitive to the criticism, and we know— sensitive to the criticism, and we know and — sensitive to the criticism, and we know and you _ sensitive to the criticism, and we know and you have _ sensitive to the criticism, and we know and you have heard - sensitive to the criticism, and we know and you have heard many l sensitive to the criticism, and we - know and you have heard many times so the _ know and you have heard many times so the end _ know and you have heard many times so the end of— know and you have heard many times so the end of people _ know and you have heard many times so the end of people from _ know and you have heard many times so the end of people from the - so the end of people from the government— so the end of people from the government and _ so the end of people from the government and from - so the end of people from the government and from the - so the end of people from the i government and from the local authority— government and from the local authority and _ government and from the local authority and the _ government and from the local authority and the police - government and from the local| authority and the police saying, well, _ authority and the police saying, well, we — authority and the police saying, well, we are _ authority and the police saying, well, we are doing _ authority and the police saying, well, we are doing what - authority and the police saying, well, we are doing what we - authority and the police saying, | well, we are doing what we can. their— well, we are doing what we can. their view— well, we are doing what we can. their view is _ well, we are doing what we can. their view is that _ well, we are doing what we can. their view is that they— well, we are doing what we can. their view is that they are - well, we are doing what we can. their view is that they are still l their view is that they are still stopping — their view is that they are still stopping a _ their view is that they are still stopping a large _ their view is that they are still stopping a large percentage . their view is that they are stillj stopping a large percentage of their view is that they are still - stopping a large percentage of the boats _ stopping a large percentage of the boats the — stopping a large percentage of the boats. the number— stopping a large percentage of the boats. the number has _ stopping a large percentage of the boats. the number has simply- boats. the number has simply burgeoned _ boats. the number has simply burgeoned to _ boats. the number has simply burgeoned to all— boats. the number has simply burgeoned to all prediction . boats. the number has simply burgeoned to all prediction inl boats. the number has simply. burgeoned to all prediction in the last months. _ burgeoned to all prediction in the last months, but— burgeoned to all prediction in the last months, but the _ burgeoned to all prediction in the last months, but the french - burgeoned to all prediction in the last months, but the french are i last months, but the french are saying _ last months, but the french are saying our— last months, but the french are saying our catch, _ last months, but the french are saying our catch, if— last months, but the french are saying our catch, if you - last months, but the french are saying our catch, if you like, - last months, but the french are| saying our catch, if you like, our success — saying our catch, if you like, our success rate _ saying our catch, if you like, our success rate in _ saying our catch, if you like, our success rate in stopping - saying our catch, if you like, our success rate in stopping them i saying our catch, if you like, our success rate in stopping them isj success rate in stopping them is roughly— success rate in stopping them is roughly the _ success rate in stopping them is roughly the same. _ success rate in stopping them is roughly the same. so _ success rate in stopping them is- roughly the same. so proportionally. it is roughly the same. so proportionally. it is hard _ roughly the same. so proportionally. it is hard to— roughly the same. so proportionally. it is hard to know— roughly the same. so proportionally. it is hard to know who _ roughly the same. so proportionally. it is hard to know who was _ roughly the same. so proportionally. it is hard to know who was on - roughly the same. so proportionally. it is hard to know who was on the - it is hard to know who was on the truth _ it is hard to know who was on the truth in _ it is hard to know who was on the truth in all— it is hard to know who was on the truth in all of _ it is hard to know who was on the truth in all of this. _ it is hard to know who was on the truth in all of this. it _ it is hard to know who was on the truth in all of this. it is _ it is hard to know who was on the truth in all of this. it is hard - it is hard to know who was on the truth in all of this. it is hard to. truth in all of this. it is hard to know— truth in all of this. it is hard to know if— truth in all of this. it is hard to know if the _ truth in all of this. it is hard to know if the french _ truth in all of this. it is hard to know if the french are - know if the french are genuinely doing _ know if the french are genuinely doing all— know if the french are genuinely doing all they _ know if the french are genuinely doing all they can. _ know if the french are genuinely doing all they can. hard - know if the french are genuinely doing all they can. hard to - know if the french are genuinely doing all they can. hard to knowj know if the french are genuinely. doing all they can. hard to know if there _ doing all they can. hard to know if there is— doing all they can. hard to know if there is not— doing all they can. hard to know if there is not an _ doing all they can. hard to know if there is not an element _ doing all they can. hard to know if there is not an element of- doing all they can. hard to know if there is not an element of politics| there is not an element of politics and all— there is not an element of politics and all this— there is not an element of politics and all this because _ there is not an element of politics and all this because as— there is not an element of politics and all this because as we - there is not an element of politics and all this because as we know l and all this because as we know british— and all this because as we know british regulations _ and all this because as we know british regulations have - and all this because as we know british regulations have not- and all this because as we knowl british regulations have not been good _ british regulations have not been good it— british regulations have not been good it will— british regulations have not been good it will be _ british regulations have not been good. it will be a _ british regulations have not been good. it will be a been— british regulations have not been good. it will be a been up- british regulations have not been good. it will be a been up there i british regulations have not beenl good. it will be a been up there in recent— good. it will be a been up there in recent weeks _ good. it will be a been up there in recent weeks to _ good. it will be a been up there in recent weeks to see _ good. it will be a been up there in recent weeks to see that - good. it will be a been up there in recent weeks to see that police i good. it will be a been up there in recent weeks to see that police in| recent weeks to see that police in action, _ recent weeks to see that police in action, we — recent weeks to see that police in action, we tend _ recent weeks to see that police in action, we tend to— recent weeks to see that police in action, we tend to come - recent weeks to see that police in action, we tend to come back, . recent weeks to see that police inj action, we tend to come back, we journalists — action, we tend to come back, we journalists tend _ action, we tend to come back, we journalists tend to _ action, we tend to come back, we journalists tend to come - action, we tend to come back, we journalists tend to come back - action, we tend to come back, wel journalists tend to come back fairly convinced — journalists tend to come back fairly convinced that _ journalists tend to come back fairly convinced that they— journalists tend to come back fairly convinced that they are _ journalists tend to come back fairly convinced that they are giving - journalists tend to come back fairly convinced that they are giving a - convinced that they are giving a lot. convinced that they are giving a lot there — convinced that they are giving a lot there is— convinced that they are giving a lot. there is a _ convinced that they are giving a lot. there is a lot _ convinced that they are giving a lot. there is a lot going - convinced that they are giving a lot. there is a lot going on- convinced that they are giving a lot. there is a lot going on up. lot. there is a lot going on up there — lot. there is a lot going on up there but _ lot. there is a lot going on up there but it— lot. there is a lot going on up there. but it is— lot. there is a lot going on up there. but it is a _ lot. there is a lot going on up there. but it is a very- lot. there is a lot going on up there. but it is a very long - lot. there is a lot going on up- there. but it is a very long stretch of beach, — there. but it is a very long stretch of beach, and _ there. but it is a very long stretch of beach, and as _ there. but it is a very long stretch of beach, and as we _ there. but it is a very long stretch of beach, and as we know- there. but it is a very long stretch of beach, and as we know the - there. but it is a very long stretch - of beach, and as we know the numbers have just _ of beach, and as we know the numbers have just been — of beach, and as we know the numbers have just been rocketing _ of beach, and as we know the numbers have just been rocketing recently. - have just been rocketing recently. and added — have just been rocketing recently. and added to _ have just been rocketing recently. and added to that, _ have just been rocketing recently. and added to that, there - have just been rocketing recently. and added to that, there is, - have just been rocketing recently. and added to that, there is, as. have just been rocketing recently. | and added to that, there is, as we know, _ and added to that, there is, as we know. the — and added to that, there is, as we know, the question _ and added to that, there is, as we know, the question of— and added to that, there is, as we know, the question of the - and added to that, there is, as we know, the question of the law- and added to that, there is, as we know, the question of the law of. and added to that, there is, as we l know, the question of the law of the sea and _ know, the question of the law of the sea and lives — know, the question of the law of the sea and lives being _ know, the question of the law of the sea and lives being at _ know, the question of the law of the sea and lives being at stake - know, the question of the law of the sea and lives being at stake and - know, the question of the law of the sea and lives being at stake and so i sea and lives being at stake and so on. sea and lives being at stake and so on it— sea and lives being at stake and so on it is— sea and lives being at stake and so on it is not— sea and lives being at stake and so on. it is not necessarily— sea and lives being at stake and so on. it is not necessarily that- sea and lives being at stake and so on. it is not necessarily that easy. on. it is not necessarily that easy simply— on. it is not necessarily that easy simply to— on. it is not necessarily that easy simply to stop _ on. it is not necessarily that easy simply to stop a _ on. it is not necessarily that easy simply to stop a boat _ on. it is not necessarily that easy simply to stop a boat and - on. it is not necessarily that easy simply to stop a boat and turn i on. it is not necessarily that easy simply to stop a boat and turn iti simply to stop a boat and turn it around — simply to stop a boat and turn it around, especially— simply to stop a boat and turn it around, especially with - simply to stop a boat and turn it around, especially with people i simply to stop a boat and turn itl around, especially with people in the bow— around, especially with people in the bow are _ around, especially with people in the bow are saying _ around, especially with people in the bow are saying we _ around, especially with people in the bow are saying we are - around, especially with people in the bow are saying we are goingl around, especially with people in i the bow are saying we are going to jump— the bow are saying we are going to jump overboard _ the bow are saying we are going to jump overboard, we _ the bow are saying we are going to jump overboard, we are _ the bow are saying we are going to jump overboard, we are going - the bow are saying we are going to jump overboard, we are going to l the bow are saying we are going to i jump overboard, we are going to push our children— jump overboard, we are going to push our children overboard. _ jump overboard, we are going to push our children overboard. at _ jump overboard, we are going to push our children overboard. at sea, - jump overboard, we are going to push our children overboard. at sea, the i our children overboard. at sea, the rules— our children overboard. at sea, the rules of— our children overboard. at sea, the rules of estoppel_ our children overboard. at sea, the rules of estoppel so _ our children overboard. at sea, the rules of estoppel so if— our children overboard. at sea, the rules of estoppel so if there - our children overboard. at sea, the rules of estoppel so if there is - our children overboard. at sea, the rules of estoppel so if there is anyl rules of estoppel so if there is any risk, _ rules of estoppel so if there is any risk, you _ rules of estoppel so if there is any risk, you take _ rules of estoppel so if there is any risk, you take them _ rules of estoppel so if there is any risk, you take them on _ rules of estoppel so if there is any risk, you take them on a - rules of estoppel so if there is any risk, you take them on a new- rules of estoppel so if there is any risk, you take them on a new lookj rules of estoppel so if there is any . risk, you take them on a new look at people _ risk, you take them on a new look at people and _ risk, you take them on a new look at people and that _ risk, you take them on a new look at people and that of _ risk, you take them on a new look at people and that of course _ risk, you take them on a new look at people and that of course is - risk, you take them on a new look at people and that of course is a - risk, you take them on a new look at people and that of course is a huge i people and that of course is a huge humanitarian — people and that of course is a huge humanitarian loophole, _ people and that of course is a huge humanitarian loophole, if - people and that of course is a huge humanitarian loophole, if you - people and that of course is a huge humanitarian loophole, if you like, | humanitarian loophole, if you like, that the _ humanitarian loophole, if you like, that the traffickers _ humanitarian loophole, if you like, that the traffickers are _ humanitarian loophole, if you like, that the traffickers are exporting . that the traffickers are exporting all the _ that the traffickers are exporting all the time _ that the traffickers are exporting all the time-— all the time. yes, it interesting that ou all the time. yes, it interesting that you say — all the time. yes, it interesting that you say when _ all the time. yes, it interesting that you say when you - all the time. yes, it interesting that you say when you go - all the time. yes, it interesting that you say when you go to . all the time. yes, it interesting i that you say when you go to calais you do see work ongoing by the french. for ourviewers, you do see work ongoing by the french. for our viewers, what actually is done?— french. for our viewers, what actually is done? well, there are atrols. actually is done? well, there are patrols- the _ actually is done? well, there are patrols. the gendarme, - actually is done? well, there are patrols. the gendarme, who - actually is done? well, there are | patrols. the gendarme, who have actually is done? well, there are - patrols. the gendarme, who have had reinforcements— patrols. the gendarme, who have had reinforcements because _ patrols. the gendarme, who have had reinforcements because of— patrols. the gendarme, who have had reinforcements because of the - patrols. the gendarme, who have had reinforcements because of the moneyj reinforcements because of the money that's— reinforcements because of the money that's come _ reinforcements because of the money that's come from _ reinforcements because of the money that's come from the _ reinforcements because of the money that's come from the uk, _ reinforcements because of the money that's come from the uk, are - reinforcements because of the money that's come from the uk, are every. that's come from the uk, are every night _ that's come from the uk, are every night out _ that's come from the uk, are every night out patrolling. _ that's come from the uk, are every night out patrolling. clearly - that's come from the uk, are every night out patrolling. clearly is - that's come from the uk, are every night out patrolling. clearly is not i night out patrolling. clearly is not enough _ night out patrolling. clearly is not enough you _ night out patrolling. clearly is not enough. you could _ night out patrolling. clearly is not enough. you could always - night out patrolling. clearly is not enough. you could always say- night out patrolling. clearly is not enough. you could always say it'sj enough. you could always say it's set it _ enough. you could always say it's set it up— enough. you could always say it's set it up as — enough. you could always say it's set it up as quickly _ enough. you could always say it's set it up as quickly as _ enough. you could always say it's set it up as quickly as not - enough. you could always say it'si set it up as quickly as not stopping the traffickers, _ set it up as quickly as not stopping the traffickers, and _ set it up as quickly as not stopping the traffickers, and it _ set it up as quickly as not stopping the traffickers, and it is _ set it up as quickly as not stopping the traffickers, and it is in - set it up as quickly as not stopping the traffickers, and it is in some i the traffickers, and it is in some ways— the traffickers, and it is in some ways quite — the traffickers, and it is in some ways quite hard _ the traffickers, and it is in some ways quite hard to _ the traffickers, and it is in some ways quite hard to understand l the traffickers, and it is in some i ways quite hard to understand that the people — ways quite hard to understand that the people cannot _ ways quite hard to understand that the people cannot be _ ways quite hard to understand that the people cannot be seen - ways quite hard to understand that the people cannot be seen more i the people cannot be seen more easily— the people cannot be seen more easily and — the people cannot be seen more easily and quickly _ the people cannot be seen more easily and quickly and _ the people cannot be seen more easily and quickly and stopped. i the people cannot be seen more . easily and quickly and stopped. he figures _ easily and quickly and stopped. he figures that — easily and quickly and stopped. he figures that i've _ easily and quickly and stopped. he figures that i've seen _ easily and quickly and stopped. he figures that i've seen suggest - easily and quickly and stopped. he figures that i've seen suggest that| figures that i've seen suggest that many, _ figures that i've seen suggest that many. many, _ figures that i've seen suggest that many. many. most— figures that i've seen suggest that many, many, most of— figures that i've seen suggest that many, many, most of the - figures that i've seen suggest that| many, many, most of the migrants crossing _ many, many, most of the migrants crossing now— many, many, most of the migrants crossing now are _ many, many, most of the migrants crossing now are not _ many, many, most of the migrants crossing now are not staying - many, many, most of the migrants crossing now are not staying in - crossing now are not staying in france — crossing now are not staying in france or— crossing now are not staying in france or near— crossing now are not staying in france or near calais. - crossing now are not staying in france or near calais. before l crossing now are not staying in i france or near calais. before they embark— france or near calais. before they embark but — france or near calais. before they embark but for— france or near calais. before they embark but for more _ france or near calais. before they embark but for more than - france or near calais. before they embark but for more than 24 - france or near calais. before they . embark but for more than 24 hours. they— embark but for more than 24 hours. they are _ embark but for more than 24 hours. they are arriving _ embark but for more than 24 hours. they are arriving in _ embark but for more than 24 hours. they are arriving in many— embark but for more than 24 hours. they are arriving in many vans - embark but for more than 24 hours. they are arriving in many vans and i they are arriving in many vans and buses— they are arriving in many vans and buses and — they are arriving in many vans and buses and someone _ they are arriving in many vans and buses and someone from - they are arriving in many vans and buses and someone from belgiumj buses and someone from belgium across— buses and someone from belgium across the — buses and someone from belgium across the border— buses and someone from belgium across the border in _ buses and someone from belgium across the border in germany- buses and someone from belgium across the border in germany andl across the border in germany and they are — across the border in germany and they are arriving _ across the border in germany and they are arriving and _ across the border in germany and they are arriving and there - across the border in germany and they are arriving and there must. across the border in germany and i they are arriving and there must be a lot of— they are arriving and there must be a lot of movement _ they are arriving and there must be a lot of movement of— they are arriving and there must be a lot of movement of people - they are arriving and there must be a lot of movement of people who . they are arriving and there must be l a lot of movement of people who you think will— a lot of movement of people who you think will be — a lot of movement of people who you think will be quite _ a lot of movement of people who you think will be quite detectable - a lot of movement of people who you think will be quite detectable on - think will be quite detectable on roads— think will be quite detectable on roads towards— think will be quite detectable on roads towards this _ think will be quite detectable on roads towards this area - think will be quite detectable on roads towards this area as - think will be quite detectable on roads towards this area as well. | think will be quite detectable on - roads towards this area as well. but they're _ roads towards this area as well. but they're not— roads towards this area as well. but they're not being _ roads towards this area as well. but they're not being stopped. - roads towards this area as well. but they're not being stopped. all- roads towards this area as well. but they're not being stopped. all i - roads towards this area as well. but they're not being stopped. all i can| they're not being stopped. all i can say is _ they're not being stopped. all i can say is on _ they're not being stopped. all i can say is on the — they're not being stopped. all i can say is on the beaches, _ they're not being stopped. all i can say is on the beaches, there - they're not being stopped. all i can say is on the beaches, there are i say is on the beaches, there are gendarme — say is on the beaches, there are gendarme out— say is on the beaches, there are gendarme out every— say is on the beaches, there are gendarme out every night. - say is on the beaches, there are. gendarme out every night. but... say is on the beaches, there are - gendarme out every night. but... you schofield, gendarme out every night. but... schofield, many thanks to my froze at the in there. our correspondent in paris explaining what is done on the french side. as he said the prime minister is going to the chair an emerge as a cover meeting and let's get the latest from our latest from helen, explain what we are hearing from this end. in a from helen, explain what we are hearing from this end.— from helen, explain what we are hearing from this end. in a sign of the importance — hearing from this end. in a sign of the importance of— hearing from this end. in a sign of the importance of this _ hearing from this end. in a sign of the importance of this in - hearing from this end. in a sign of the importance of this in the - hearing from this end. in a sign ofj the importance of this in the scale of this, this incident, we are now hearing as you said the prime minister is going to chair a cobra meeting, the emergency committee thatis meeting, the emergency committee that is called in when incidents like this occur. that will beat today but we don't know when exec that will be but we bring you more on that as we have it. certainly i think the sense from the initial reaction that we are getting from politicians here in westminster is that this is a tragedy, the word that this is a tragedy, the word that keeps coming up. nick thomas simmons, the labour shadow home secretary have described as tragic and heartbreaking news and says we need to redouble our efforts to prevent people from risking their lives on this perilous journey. the mp for dover who you spoke to earlier in the programme also described this as an absolute tragedy. she again says underlines why saving lives at sea starts by stopping the boats from entering the water in the first place.— water in the first place. allen, for now, water in the first place. allen, for now. thank _ water in the first place. allen, for now. thank you — water in the first place. allen, for now, thank you and _ water in the first place. allen, for now, thank you and we'll- water in the first place. allen, for now, thank you and we'll hear - water in the first place. allen, for. now, thank you and we'll hear more from you i'm sure once that cobra meeting has broken up and thanks for now. that is our political horse correspondent helen cat. jean—marc puissesseau is the head of the ports of calais and boulogne. good evening to you and thank you for your time tonight. what are you hearing about the number of people who have been killed and who have been found or injured? what you hearing on humanitarian level equipment good evening. what hearing on humanitarian level equipment good evening. what i know is the number — equipment good evening. what i know is the number of _ equipment good evening. what i know is the number of migrants _ equipment good evening. what i know is the number of migrants on - equipment good evening. what i know is the number of migrants on this - is the number of migrants on this boat, _ is the number of migrants on this boat. 50 — is the number of migrants on this boat, 50 people, and what i heard is that there _ boat, 50 people, and what i heard is that there are 30 people dead, and now five _ that there are 30 people dead, and now five or— that there are 30 people dead, and now five or six which have been found _ now five or six which have been found and — now five or six which have been found and i_ now five or six which have been found and i know that is one boat rowihg _ found and i know that is one boat rowing some and it's back to calais port with— rowing some and it's back to calais port with over six migrants who are dead _ port with over six migrants who are dead and _ port with over six migrants who are dead and one who was still alive. so is a tragedy — dead and one who was still alive. so is a tragedy. so dead and one who was still alive. so is a tragedy-— is a tragedy. so you believe that 30 eo - le is a tragedy. so you believe that 30 people have — is a tragedy. so you believe that 30 people have died, _ is a tragedy. so you believe that 30 people have died, and _ is a tragedy. so you believe that 30 people have died, and you - is a tragedy. so you believe that 30 people have died, and you think - is a tragedy. so you believe that 30 i people have died, and you think they were 50 people on one boat. is that your understanding? that were 50 people on one boat. is that your understanding?— your understanding? that is what i have heard — your understanding? that is what i have heard from _ your understanding? that is what i have heard from a _ your understanding? that is what i have heard from a ship. _ your understanding? that is what i have heard from a ship. we - your understanding? that is what i have heard from a ship. we were i have heard from a ship. we were there _ have heard from a ship. we were there and — have heard from a ship. we were there and caught one of their members. this man told me we were in a meeting _ members. this man told me we were in a meeting when he called me and told me there _ a meeting when he called me and told me there were 50 people on this boat and that— me there were 50 people on this boat and that 30 _ me there were 50 people on this boat and that 30 had died. so maybe there will be _ and that 30 had died. so maybe there will be more, i don't know, but even if it will be more, idon't know, but even if it is— will be more, i don't know, but even if it isjust _ will be more, i don't know, but even if it is just five — will be more, i don't know, but even if it isjust five or ten, it is a tragedy— if it isjust five or ten, it is a tragedy and i think the people who take pay— tragedy and i think the people who take pay from the migrants to get to your country with such bad weather, such a _ your country with such bad weather, such a bad _ your country with such bad weather, such a bad seat, they are murderers. they are _ such a bad seat, they are murderers. they are really murderous. you don't try to _ they are really murderous. you don't try to cross— they are really murderous. you don't try to cross with these weather conditions, and it is cold and deceit — conditions, and it is cold and deceit must be cold and there are bil deceit must be cold and there are big waves, — deceit must be cold and there are big waves, so they are murderers. the people — big waves, so they are murderers. the people are murderers and the migrants — the people are murderers and the migrants will be coming from their country— migrants will be coming from their country and have spent months and months _ country and have spent months and months to— country and have spent months and months to come here and then have died so _ months to come here and then have died so close to their dream, this is reallym — died so close to their dream, this is reallym i— died so close to their dream, this is really... i don't know what you do, is really... i don't know what you do. really. — is really... i don't know what you do, really, but all europe and everywhere and in the uk, we must all be _ everywhere and in the uk, we must all be trying — everywhere and in the uk, we must all be trying to find a solution because — all be trying to find a solution because there will be some more. it is quite _ because there will be some more. it is quite sure — because there will be some more. it is quite sure there will be some more _ is quite sure there will be some more. ., ~ ., , , more. you think it will happen arain, more. you think it will happen again. and _ more. you think it will happen again, and understand - more. you think it will happen again, and understand how. more. you think it will happen i again, and understand how upset more. you think it will happen - again, and understand how upset you cite clearly you were describing the weather conditions for one thing were very poor indeed. and when you say 50 people in one boat, do we assume fairly that means that boat was very overcrowded, that the but was very overcrowded, that the but was not designed for 50 west maybe not but 50 people, if the sea is rough, some water gets into the boat... , ., ., ., , ., .,~ boat... they are not able to take the water _ boat... they are not able to take the water in _ boat... they are not able to take the water in the _ boat. .. they are not able to take the water in the vessel— boat... they are not able to take the water in the vessel because l boat... they are not able to take | the water in the vessel because it is so _ the water in the vessel because it is so crowded and then there is more and more _ is so crowded and then there is more and more water and then what happens happens _ and more water and then what happens happens and the sea is very cold so there _ happens and the sea is very cold so there is— happens and the sea is very cold so there is no— happens and the sea is very cold so there is no big chance of survival some _ there is no big chance of survival some that — there is no big chance of survival some that is why it is a tragedy. and the — some that is why it is a tragedy. and the people who lead the ship across, _ and the people who lead the ship across, they are murderers. they did not have _ across, they are murderers. they did not have a _ across, they are murderers. they did not have a chance to cross with this vessel _ not have a chance to cross with this vessel you — not have a chance to cross with this vessel. you know, even if the sea is calm, _ vessel. you know, even if the sea is calm. in _ vessel. you know, even if the sea is calm. in the — vessel. you know, even if the sea is calm, in the middle between the uk and france — calm, in the middle between the uk and france, there is always some waves _ and france, there is always some waves and — and france, there is always some waves and something. but it's even if the _ waves and something. but it's even if the sea _ waves and something. but it's even if the sea is — waves and something. but it's even if the sea is not looking so rough, in the _ if the sea is not looking so rough, in the middle is always many ways. that can _ in the middle is always many ways. that can happen again because they tried everything to get to your country — tried everything to get to your country. that's why i'm very upset and this— country. that's why i'm very upset and this is— country. that's why i'm very upset and this is unfortunate. i don't know— and this is unfortunate. i don't know what— and this is unfortunate. i don't know what to do. they're coming from greece _ know what to do. they're coming from greece from — know what to do. they're coming from greece, from italy to france and then— greece, from italy to france and then we — greece, from italy to france and then we have hundreds of migrants and the _ then we have hundreds of migrants and the french government, when they are there. _ and the french government, when they are there. we _ and the french government, when they are there, we don't want them to stay in _ are there, we don't want them to stay in calais clement we go to special— stay in calais clement we go to special organisations to take care of them — special organisations to take care of them. and then they escape and is a tragedy _ of them. and then they escape and is a tragedy. something has to be found because _ a tragedy. something has to be found because it _ a tragedy. something has to be found because it cannot go on. i know that our home _ because it cannot go on. i know that our home ministry is coming to calais — our home ministry is coming to calais in — our home ministry is coming to calais in one hour maybe. i hope that we — calais in one hour maybe. i hope that we find _ calais in one hour maybe. i hope that we find a solution, all europe together~ — that we find a solution, all europe together. it is not a question of france — together. it is not a question of france and _ together. it is not a question of france and calais, of course not. there _ france and calais, of course not. there are — france and calais, of course not. there are 70 _ france and calais, of course not. there are 70 people with helicopters who try _ there are 70 people with helicopters who try every day to discover people trying _ who try every day to discover people trying to _ who try every day to discover people trying to do — who try every day to discover people trying to do these murders that they are so— trying to do these murders that they are so well— trying to do these murders that they are so well organised and people crossing — are so well organised and people crossing today, is a tragedy. they are murderous and we have to find them _ are murderous and we have to find them. �* ., , ., are murderous and we have to find them. �* ., i. ., are murderous and we have to find them. �* ., .,, , them. before i let you go because i know it is this _ them. before i let you go because i know it is this really _ them. before i let you go because i know it is this really upsetting - them. before i let you go because i know it is this really upsetting for i know it is this really upsetting for you, i'm so struck by the number of times you have said ijust don't know what to do. you have got your home affairs minister arriving in one hour, you say. what are you going to say? i one hour, you say. what are you going to say?— one hour, you say. what are you ”ointosa ? ., ., , ., , going to say? i am not sure actually because i thought _ going to say? i am not sure actually because i thought he _ going to say? i am not sure actually because i thought he was _ going to say? i am not sure actually because i thought he was coming i going to say? i am not sure actually because i thought he was coming to the port _ because i thought he was coming to the port but then it was of course he was _ the port but then it was of course he was coming in it but if he is going to — he was coming in it but if he is going to the hospital i don't think iwill— going to the hospital i don't think i will be _ going to the hospital i don't think i will be there. i don't think but the politicians had to find a solution _ the politicians had to find a solution together. altogether. even in the _ solution together. altogether. even in the uk. _ solution together. altogether. even in the uk, us and join because you cannot— in the uk, us and join because you cannot only— in the uk, us and join because you cannot only say in your uk and say it is not— cannot only say in your uk and say it is not our— cannot only say in your uk and say it is not our problem was i going to forget _ it is not our problem was i going to forget that— it is not our problem was i going to forget that in calais the control getting — forget that in calais the control getting into your country. it is hard _ getting into your country. it is hard to— getting into your country. it is hard to control, there are migrants in the _ hard to control, there are migrants in the trucks — hard to control, there are migrants in the trucks and a lot of things are done — in the trucks and a lot of things are done. and now they will be discovered that maybe to get to your country _ discovered that maybe to get to your country by _ discovered that maybe to get to your country by the little boats they are trying _ country by the little boats they are trying i_ country by the little boats they are trying. i have no power. i have no power— trying. i have no power. i have no power for— trying. i have no power. i have no power for that. trying. i have no power. i have no powerforthat. i trying. i have no power. i have no power for that. i am trying. i have no power. i have no power for that. lam not power for that. i am not responsible for anything. the politicians are responsible. we can be only a very upset. _ responsible. we can be only a very upset. but — responsible. we can be only a very upset, but this is everywhere. i don't _ upset, but this is everywhere. i don't know— upset, but this is everywhere. i don't know what to do. i have no responsibility for that. don't know what to do. i have no responsibility forthat. even don't know what to do. i have no responsibility for that. even if i say something to the whole minister, the politician it's still the problem. europe and also a little bit uk _ problem. europe and also a little bit uk because you ask us to control the port _ bit uk because you ask us to control the port because the port carries eight _ the port because the port carries eight millions a year to control what _ eight millions a year to control what migrants or not. we do the job for your— what migrants or not. we do the job for your government because they preferred — for your government because they preferred this control to be done in calais _ preferred this control to be done in calais but — preferred this control to be done in calais but that cost a lot of money. but outside — calais but that cost a lot of money. but outside of the money, there is a human— but outside of the money, there is a human problem. people are coming to us and _ human problem. people are coming to us and what _ human problem. people are coming to us and what are we going to do? they want to— us and what are we going to do? they want to get— us and what are we going to do? they want to get to the uk. it's really sad. _ want to get to the uk. it's really sad. we — want to get to the uk. it's really sad. we are _ want to get to the uk. it's really sad, we are very sad and calais and ithink— sad, we are very sad and calais and i think you — sad, we are very sad and calais and i think you are said to.— i think you are said to. thank you so much we _ i think you are said to. thank you so much we will _ i think you are said to. thank you so much we will raise _ i think you are said to. thank you so much we will raise some - i think you are said to. thank you so much we will raise some of. i think you are said to. thank you i so much we will raise some of your points of our politicians here tonight. points of our politicians here toniaht. . points of our politicians here toniaht. , , .,, points of our politicians here toniaht. , , ., ., tonight. yes, please and say we are controllin: tonight. yes, please and say we are controlling it _ tonight. yes, please and say we are controlling it and _ tonight. yes, please and say we are controlling it and we _ tonight. yes, please and say we are controlling it and we we _ tonight. yes, please and say we are controlling it and we we don't - tonight. yes, please and say we are controlling it and we we don't get i controlling it and we we don't get any help— controlling it and we we don't get any help from your country to control — any help from your country to control i_ any help from your country to control. i am again with the uk agreement but that is another debate and we _ agreement but that is another debate and we can— agreement but that is another debate and we can discuss another time with your in— and we can discuss another time with your in a _ and we can discuss another time with your in a big — and we can discuss another time with your in a big pleasure and today we have two _ your in a big pleasure and today we have two suitable people who find in the channel. gf have two suitable people who find in the channel-— have two suitable people who find in the channel. of course, thank you so much for your— the channel. of course, thank you so much for your time. _ the channel. of course, thank you so much for your time. that _ the channel. of course, thank you so much for your time. that is - the channel. of course, thank you so much for your time. that is the - the channel. of course, thank you so much for your time. that is the head | much for your time. that is the head of the ports of calais. and you will be struck i am sure by the number of times he said ijust don't know what to do and the number of times he used the word murderers in relation to the people traffickers and he described as well the very bad weather conditions at the time as well which is why another reason he kept describing those people smugglers as murderers. just to remind you that he said as far, the head of the poor of calais, his understanding is that 30 people have died and he reported people who would witness everything out it's a telling him that they felt they were about 50 people on the vessel. all just to tell you what we were listening to him a couple of comments coming through from france, from the local mayor and i believe that's the mayor of calais, the mayor of calais saying that many more bodies are still out at sea. so we expect more deaths. the mayor of calais say we believe there are many more bodies out at sea. well, as he was suggesting, our last, it is a day of course to remember those who have died but we must talk about the politics of all of this as well. let's talk to the shadow home secretary, to labour eight�*s nick thomas simons. good evening to you for some of you might�*ve been able to hear some of our last guest there. he was very emotional for understandable reasons and i'm political terms, understandable reasons and i'm politicalterms, i understandable reasons and i'm political terms, i was struck by how often he said ijust don't know what to do because these people want to come to your country, he said. what can and should politicians do? firstly i did not catch all of that interview — firstly i did not catch all of that interview but _ firstly i did not catch all of that interview but what _ firstly i did not catch all of that interview but what i— firstly i did not catch all of that interview but what i did - firstly i did not catch all of that interview but what i did catch, i firstly i did not catch all of thatj interview but what i did catch, i can hear— interview but what i did catch, i can hear the _ interview but what i did catch, i can hear the emotion _ interview but what i did catch, i can hear the emotion in - interview but what i did catch, i can hear the emotion in his- interview but what i did catch, i. can hear the emotion in his voice. and first — can hear the emotion in his voice. and first and _ can hear the emotion in his voice. and first and foremost _ can hear the emotion in his voice. and first and foremost i— can hear the emotion in his voice. and first and foremost i have - can hear the emotion in his voice. and first and foremost i have to l can hear the emotion in his voice. i and first and foremost i have to say that today _ and first and foremost i have to say that today is — and first and foremost i have to say that today is an _ and first and foremost i have to say that today is an extraordinarily - that today is an extraordinarily sobering — that today is an extraordinarily sobering day _ that today is an extraordinarily sobering day. it's _ that today is an extraordinarily sobering day. it's sobering - that today is an extraordinarily sobering day. it's sobering for| that today is an extraordinarily i sobering day. it's sobering for the uk, sobering day. it's sobering for the uk. sobering— sobering day. it's sobering for the uk, sobering for— sobering day. it's sobering for the uk, sobering for france, - sobering day. it's sobering for the uk, sobering for france, sobering for the _ uk, sobering for france, sobering for the international— uk, sobering for france, sobering for the international community. i uk, sobering for france, sobering. for the international community. and what has _ for the international community. and what has happened _ for the international community. and what has happened it _ for the international community. and what has happened it seems - for the international community. and what has happened it seems tens- for the international community. and what has happened it seems tens ofl what has happened it seems tens of lives have _ what has happened it seems tens of lives have been— what has happened it seems tens of lives have been lost _ what has happened it seems tens of lives have been lost in— what has happened it seems tens of lives have been lost in the - what has happened it seems tens of lives have been lost in the channel. lives have been lost in the channel it seems— lives have been lost in the channel it seems there _ lives have been lost in the channel it seems there may— lives have been lost in the channel it seems there may be _ lives have been lost in the channel it seems there may be more - lives have been lost in the channel it seems there may be more livesl it seems there may be more lives lost listening _ it seems there may be more lives lost listening to _ it seems there may be more lives lost listening to that _ it seems there may be more lives lost listening to that interview. it| lost listening to that interview. it is a really — lost listening to that interview. it is a really poignant _ lost listening to that interview. it is a really poignant reminder- lost listening to that interview. it is a really poignant reminder of. lost listening to that interview. it i is a really poignant reminder of how dangerous— is a really poignant reminder of how dangerous these _ is a really poignant reminder of how dangerous these waters _ is a really poignant reminder of how dangerous these waters are, - is a really poignant reminder of how dangerous these waters are, the - dangerous these waters are, the busiest — dangerous these waters are, the busiest shipping _ dangerous these waters are, the busiest shipping lanes— dangerous these waters are, the busiest shipping lanes in- dangerous these waters are, the busiest shipping lanes in the - dangerous these waters are, the i busiest shipping lanes in the world. and it _ busiest shipping lanes in the world. and it really— busiest shipping lanes in the world. and it really now— busiest shipping lanes in the world. and it really now has _ busiest shipping lanes in the world. and it really now has to _ busiest shipping lanes in the world. and it really now has to act - busiest shipping lanes in the world. and it really now has to act as - busiest shipping lanes in the world. and it really now has to act as the i and it really now has to act as the most _ and it really now has to act as the most tragic— and it really now has to act as the most tragic of _ and it really now has to act as the most tragic of wake—up _ and it really now has to act as the most tragic of wake—up calls - and it really now has to act as the most tragic of wake—up calls to i most tragic of wake—up calls to redouble — most tragic of wake—up calls to redouble our— most tragic of wake—up calls to redouble our efforts— most tragic of wake—up calls to redouble our efforts to - most tragic of wake—up calls to redouble our efforts to make . most tragic of wake—up calls to i redouble our efforts to make sure that people — redouble our efforts to make sure that pe0pte are _ redouble our efforts to make sure that people are not— redouble our efforts to make sure that people are not out _ redouble our efforts to make sure that people are not out on - redouble our efforts to make sure that people are not out on the - redouble our efforts to make sure i that people are not out on the water in these _ that people are not out on the water in these terrible _ that people are not out on the water in these terrible makeshift - that people are not out on the water in these terrible makeshift boats - in these terrible makeshift boats risking _ in these terrible makeshift boats risking their _ in these terrible makeshift boats risking their lives. _ in these terrible makeshift boats risking their lives. find _ in these terrible makeshift boats risking their lives.— in these terrible makeshift boats risking their lives. and slowly but how is that _ risking their lives. and slowly but how is that actually _ risking their lives. and slowly but how is that actually done - risking their lives. and slowly but how is that actually done on - risking their lives. and slowly but how is that actually done on a - how is that actually done on a radical level equipment or correspondent in paris makes a point that the french gendarme to go up and down the coast and they do actually stop a number of boats and of course we are the ones they are not able to stop. what do you actually do on a long stretch of coastline? i actually do on a long stretch of coastline?— coastline? i think firstly that whilst the — coastline? i think firstly that whilst the stretch _ coastline? i think firstly that whilst the stretch of - coastline? i think firstly that l whilst the stretch of coastline coastline? i think firstly that - whilst the stretch of coastline is obviously — whilst the stretch of coastline is obviously important, _ whilst the stretch of coastline is obviously important, it's - obviously important, it's unrealistic— obviously important, it's unrealistic to— obviously important, it's unrealistic to think - obviously important, it's unrealistic to think that| obviously important, it's i unrealistic to think that the entirety— unrealistic to think that the entirety of— unrealistic to think that the entirety of that _ unrealistic to think that the entirety of that coastline i unrealistic to think that the i entirety of that coastline can unrealistic to think that the - entirety of that coastline can be controlled _ entirety of that coastline can be controlled. so _ entirety of that coastline can be controlled. so whilst _ entirety of that coastline can be controlled. so whilst those - entirety of that coastline can be - controlled. so whilst those closable troiis _ controlled. so whilst those closable troiis are _ controlled. so whilst those closable trolls are unimportant _ controlled. so whilst those closable trolls are unimportant part - controlled. so whilst those closable trolls are unimportant part of - controlled. so whilst those closable trolls are unimportant part of our. trolls are unimportant part of our deal with— trolls are unimportant part of our deal with the _ trolls are unimportant part of our deal with the french _ trolls are unimportant part of our deal with the french authorities, | trolls are unimportant part of our. deal with the french authorities, in addition _ deal with the french authorities, in addition to— deal with the french authorities, in addition to that, _ deal with the french authorities, in addition to that, we _ deal with the french authorities, in addition to that, we need - deal with the french authorities, in addition to that, we need to - deal with the french authorities, in addition to that, we need to be - addition to that, we need to be looking — addition to that, we need to be looking at— addition to that, we need to be looking at practical— addition to that, we need to be looking at practical law - addition to that, we need to be - looking at practical law enforcement action— looking at practical law enforcement action away— looking at practical law enforcement action away from _ looking at practical law enforcement action away from the _ looking at practical law enforcement action away from the coast - looking at practical law enforcement action away from the coast as - looking at practical law enforcement action away from the coast as well. i action away from the coast as well. people _ action away from the coast as well. people don't — action away from the coast as well. people don't become _ action away from the coast as well. people don't become refugees- action away from the coast as well. people don't become refugees in. people don't become refugees in northern— people don't become refugees in northern france. _ people don't become refugees in northern france. they— people don't become refugees in northern france. they have - people don't become refugees in. northern france. they have usually come _ northern france. they have usually come on _ northern france. they have usually come on a — northern france. they have usually come on a lengthy— northern france. they have usually come on a lengthyjourney- come on a lengthyjourney facilitated _ come on a lengthyjourney facilitated by _ come on a lengthyjourney facilitated by these - come on a lengthyjourney facilitated by these vile i come on a lengthyjourney- facilitated by these vile people smugglers _ facilitated by these vile people smugglers who _ facilitated by these vile people smugglers who are _ facilitated by these vile people smugglers who are reckless i facilitated by these vile people smugglers who are reckless as facilitated by these vile people i smugglers who are reckless as to people _ smugglers who are reckless as to people at's— smugglers who are reckless as to people at's lives _ smugglers who are reckless as to people at's lives. so _ smugglers who are reckless as to people at's lives. so we - smugglers who are reckless as to people at's lives. so we need - smugglers who are reckless as to people at's lives. so we need to i people at's lives. so we need to move _ people at's lives. so we need to move on— people at's lives. so we need to move on from _ people at's lives. so we need to move on from not _ people at's lives. so we need to move on from not simply- people at's lives. so we need to move on from not simply that l people at's lives. so we need to - move on from not simply that focus on the _ move on from not simply that focus on the coast, — move on from not simply that focus on the coast, not _ move on from not simply that focus on the coast, not simply— move on from not simply that focus on the coast, not simply urging - move on from not simply that focus on the coast, not simply urging the| on the coast, not simply urging the french— on the coast, not simply urging the french of— on the coast, not simply urging the french of the — on the coast, not simply urging the french of the people _ on the coast, not simply urging the french of the people at _ on the coast, not simply urging the french of the people at that - on the coast, not simply urging the french of the people at that stage i french of the people at that stage from getting — french of the people at that stage from getting on— french of the people at that stage from getting on the _ french of the people at that stage from getting on the water, - french of the people at that stage i from getting on the water, important ideas~ _ from getting on the water, important ideas we _ from getting on the water, important ideas we need — from getting on the water, important ideas. we need that _ from getting on the water, important ideas. we need that wider— from getting on the water, important ideas. we need that widerjoint - from getting on the water, important ideas. we need that widerjoint law. ideas. we need that widerjoint law enforcement— ideas. we need that widerjoint law enforcement work— ideas. we need that widerjoint law enforcement work with _ ideas. we need that widerjoint law enforcement work with the - ideas. we need that widerjoint law enforcement work with the frenchi enforcement work with the french authorities— enforcement work with the french authorities to _ enforcement work with the french authorities to be _ enforcement work with the french authorities to be disrupting - enforcement work with the french| authorities to be disrupting further away from — authorities to be disrupting further away from the _ authorities to be disrupting further away from the coast _ authorities to be disrupting further away from the coast and _ authorities to be disrupting further away from the coast and in - authorities to be disrupting furtheri away from the coast and in addition to that, _ away from the coast and in addition to that, we — away from the coast and in addition to that, we need _ away from the coast and in addition to that, we need to— away from the coast and in addition to that, we need to look— away from the coast and in addition to that, we need to look at - away from the coast and in addition to that, we need to look at safe - away from the coast and in addition| to that, we need to look at safe and legal— to that, we need to look at safe and legal routes — to that, we need to look at safe and legal routes and _ to that, we need to look at safe and legal routes and reinstating - to that, we need to look at safe and legal routes and reinstating for- legal routes and reinstating for example — legal routes and reinstating for example the _ legal routes and reinstating for example the dub _ legal routes and reinstating for example the dub scheme, - legal routes and reinstating for. example the dub scheme, named legal routes and reinstating for- example the dub scheme, named after alf dohhs— example the dub scheme, named after alf dobbs he _ example the dub scheme, named after alf dobbs he was _ example the dub scheme, named after alf dobbs he was caked _ example the dub scheme, named after alf dobbs he was caked on— example the dub scheme, named after alf dobbs he was caked on the - alf dobbs he was caked on the candour— alf dobbs he was caked on the candour transport _ alf dobbs he was caked on the candour transport of— alf dobbs he was caked on the candour transport of the - alf dobbs he was caked on thei candour transport of the 1930s alf dobbs he was caked on the - candour transport of the 1930s from a nazi _ candour transport of the 1930s from a nazi persecution. _ candour transport of the 1930s from a nazi persecution. that _ candour transport of the 1930s from a nazi persecution. that was - candour transport of the 1930s from a nazi persecution. that was close i a nazi persecution. that was close down _ a nazi persecution. that was close down prematurely _ a nazi persecution. that was close down prematurely and _ a nazi persecution. that was close down prematurely and urgently i a nazi persecution. that was close . down prematurely and urgently needs to be reinstated. _ down prematurely and urgently needs to be reinstated. do _ down prematurely and urgently needs to be reinstated.— to be reinstated. do stay with us if ou can. to be reinstated. do stay with us if you can- a — to be reinstated. do stay with us if you can. a welcome _ to be reinstated. do stay with us if you can. a welcome to _ to be reinstated. do stay with us if you can. a welcome to viewers - you can. a welcome to viewers joining us as well on bbc world news and we are bringing you continuing coverage of a truly grim death toll in the channel tonight, a boat that has some we think not far off calais trying to get from calais to dover in the uk. we were just talking in the last few minutes to the head of the last few minutes to the head of the port of calais and he has been told by people at the scene that at least 30 people have died. some of the french police have confirmed the figure is 27 and the head of the port was telling us that all the eyewitnesses he has spoken to said there were 50 people on board that vessel. and the mayor of calais say that they expect more bodies sadly to be recovered and they believe there are more bodies out still in there are more bodies out still in the seat and i'm talking to labour�*s nick thomas simons, the shadow home office minister. and to explain again to our viewers, the prime minister is chairing an emergency cobra tonight, what can and should be set at that? was on a practical level now needs to be done? well, i think firstly — level now needs to be done? well, i think firstly that _ level now needs to be done? well, i think firstly that there _ level now needs to be done? well, i think firstly that there is _ level now needs to be done? well, i think firstly that there is a _ level now needs to be done? well, i think firstly that there is a cobra - think firstly that there is a cobra meeting — think firstly that there is a cobra meeting and _ think firstly that there is a cobra meeting and it _ think firstly that there is a cobra meeting and it is _ think firstly that there is a cobra meeting and it is essential- think firstly that there is a cobra meeting and it is essential after| meeting and it is essential after the loss— meeting and it is essential after the loss of— meeting and it is essential after the loss of life _ meeting and it is essential after the loss of life that _ meeting and it is essential after the loss of life that we - meeting and it is essential after the loss of life that we have - meeting and it is essential after. the loss of life that we have seen tragic— the loss of life that we have seen tragic lee — the loss of life that we have seen tragic lee today. _ the loss of life that we have seen tragic lee today. in _ the loss of life that we have seen tragic lee today. in the _ the loss of life that we have seen tragic lee today. in the english . tragic lee today. in the english channel— tragic lee today. in the english channel today. _ tragic lee today. in the english channel today. but _ tragic lee today. in the english channel today. but the - tragic lee today. in the english - channel today. but the government needs— channel today. but the government needs to _ channel today. but the government needs to be — channel today. but the government needs to be looking _ channel today. but the government needs to be looking firstly- channel today. but the government needs to be looking firstly as - channel today. but the government needs to be looking firstly as i've . needs to be looking firstly as i've said at— needs to be looking firstly as i've said at the — needs to be looking firstly as i've said at the deal— needs to be looking firstly as i've said at the deal with _ needs to be looking firstly as i've said at the deal with the - needs to be looking firstly as i've said at the deal with the french i said at the deal with the french authorities. _ said at the deal with the french authorities, the _ said at the deal with the french authorities, the coastal- said at the deal with the french authorities, the coastal trolls. said at the deal with the french i authorities, the coastal trolls are extremely— authorities, the coastal trolls are extremely important _ authorities, the coastal trolls are extremely important but - authorities, the coastal trolls are extremely important but it- authorities, the coastal trolls are i extremely important but it cannot only be _ extremely important but it cannot only be about _ extremely important but it cannot only be about measures _ extremely important but it cannot only be about measures of- extremely important but it cannot only be about measures of the - extremely important but it cannot. only be about measures of the coast. when _ only be about measures of the coast. when he _ only be about measures of the coast. when he that— only be about measures of the coast. when he thatjoint_ only be about measures of the coast. when he that joint law _ only be about measures of the coast. when he that joint law enforcement i when he that joint law enforcement work with— when he that joint law enforcement work with the — when he that joint law enforcement work with the french _ when he that joint law enforcement work with the french authorities - when he that joint law enforcement work with the french authorities to i work with the french authorities to be disrupting — work with the french authorities to be disrupting these _ work with the french authorities to be disrupting these vile _ work with the french authorities to be disrupting these vile people - be disrupting these vile people smugglers _ be disrupting these vile people smugglers who _ be disrupting these vile people smugglers who are _ be disrupting these vile people smugglers who are reckless i be disrupting these vile people smugglers who are reckless as| be disrupting these vile people . smugglers who are reckless as to people's— smugglers who are reckless as to people's lives _ smugglers who are reckless as to people's lives on _ smugglers who are reckless as to people's lives on those _ smugglers who are reckless as to people's lives on those long - smugglers who are reckless as to i people's lives on those long routes that they _ people's lives on those long routes that they are — people's lives on those long routes that they are facilitating _ people's lives on those long routes that they are facilitating across - that they are facilitating across europe — that they are facilitating across europe and _ that they are facilitating across europe and into _ that they are facilitating across europe and into europe. - that they are facilitating across europe and into europe. and . that they are facilitating across i europe and into europe. and we that they are facilitating across - europe and into europe. and we need to be _ europe and into europe. and we need to be redoubling _ europe and into europe. and we need to be redoubling our— europe and into europe. and we need to be redoubling our efforts _ europe and into europe. and we need to be redoubling our efforts on - to be redoubling our efforts on several — to be redoubling our efforts on several legal _ to be redoubling our efforts on several legal roots _ to be redoubling our efforts on several legal roots including i to be redoubling our efforts on. several legal roots including the dub scheme _ several legal roots including the dub scheme as _ several legal roots including the dub scheme as i've _ several legal roots including the dub scheme as i've mentioned i several legal roots including the . dub scheme as i've mentioned and which _ dub scheme as i've mentioned and which was — dub scheme as i've mentioned and which was meant _ dub scheme as i've mentioned and which was meant to _ dub scheme as i've mentioned and which was meant to help _ dub scheme as i've mentioned and which was meant to help 3,000 i which was meant to help 3,000 unaccompanied _ which was meant to help 3,000 unaccompanied children- which was meant to help 3,000 unaccompanied children was - which was meant to help 3,000 . unaccompanied children was closed which was meant to help 3,000 - unaccompanied children was closed on after only— unaccompanied children was closed on after only helping _ unaccompanied children was closed on after only helping 480. _ unaccompanied children was closed on after only helping 480. that _ after only helping 480. that urgently— after only helping 480. that urgently needs _ after only helping 480. that urgently needs to _ after only helping 480. that urgently needs to be - after only helping 480. that - urgently needs to be reinstated. would _ urgently needs to be reinstated. would you — urgently needs to be reinstated. would you be _ urgently needs to be reinstated. would you be in— urgently needs to be reinstated. would you be in favour- urgently needs to be reinstated. would you be in favour of- urgently needs to be reinstated. would you be in favour of some i would you be in favour of some changes to asylum laws, for example? some charities make the point people come here because they know you to be physically in the uk if you want to claim asylum. they suggest perhaps we could instigate a system whereby you could apply while you are in another country, so you are not making that dangerous crossing that we all talk about tonight? you can have safe and legal routes as we _ you can have safe and legal routes as we already— you can have safe and legal routes as i've already mentioned. - you can have safe and legal routes as i've already mentioned. i- you can have safe and legal routes as i've already mentioned. i thinki as i've already mentioned. i think we also _ as i've already mentioned. i think we also have _ as i've already mentioned. i think we also have to _ as i've already mentioned. i think we also have to remember- as i've already mentioned. i think we also have to remember that. as i've already mentioned. i think. we also have to remember that our asylum _ we also have to remember that our asylum system _ we also have to remember that our asylum system is— we also have to remember that our asylum system is in— we also have to remember that our asylum system is in a _ we also have to remember that our asylum system is in a state - we also have to remember that our asylum system is in a state of- asylum system is in a state of chaos, — asylum system is in a state of chaos, 87% _ asylum system is in a state of chaos, 87% of— asylum system is in a state of chaos, 87% of asylum - asylum system is in a state of chaos, 87% of asylum claimsi asylum system is in a state of- chaos, 87% of asylum claims were dealt _ chaos, 87% of asylum claims were dealt with— chaos, 87% of asylum claims were dealt with within _ chaos, 87% of asylum claims were dealt with within six _ chaos, 87% of asylum claims were dealt with within six months - chaos, 87% of asylum claims were dealt with within six months in - dealt with within six months in 2014 — dealt with within six months in 2014 by— dealt with within six months in 2014. by 2019— dealt with within six months in 2014. by 2019 that _ dealt with within six months in 2014. by 2019 that had - dealt with within six months in 2014. by 2019 that had fallen | dealt with within six months in. 2014. by 2019 that had fallen to 20%~ _ 2014. by 2019 that had fallen to 20%~ we — 2014. by 2019 that had fallen to 20%~ we are _ 2014. by 2019 that had fallen to 20%. we are just _ 2014. by 2019 that had fallen to 20%. we are just not _ 2014. by 2019 that had fallen to 20%. we are just not dealing i 2014. by 2019 that had fallen to | 20%. we are just not dealing with asylum _ 20%. we are just not dealing with asylum claims— 20%. we are just not dealing with asylum claims quickly— 20%. we are just not dealing with asylum claims quickly enough. . 20%. we are just not dealing withl asylum claims quickly enough. the government— asylum claims quickly enough. the government on _ asylum claims quickly enough. the government on that _ asylum claims quickly enough. the government on that is _ asylum claims quickly enough. the government on that is urgently- government on that is urgently reinstated _ government on that is urgently reinstated its _ government on that is urgently reinstated its six—month - government on that is urgently- reinstated its six—month performance target~ _ reinstated its six—month performance target~ so _ reinstated its six—month performance target~ so that — reinstated its six—month performance target~ so that we _ reinstated its six—month performance target. so that we can _ reinstated its six—month performance target. so that we can make - reinstated its six—month performance target. so that we can make the - target. so that we can make the asylum — target. so that we can make the asylum system _ target. so that we can make the asylum system work— target. so that we can make the asylum system work for- target. so that we can make the asylum system work for those . target. so that we can make the . asylum system work for those that are in— asylum system work for those that are in it _ asylum system work for those that are in it and — asylum system work for those that are in it and work— asylum system work for those that are in it and work for— asylum system work for those that are in it and work for the _ asylum system work for those that are in it and work for the taxpayeri are in it and work for the taxpayer as well _ are in it and work for the taxpayer as well trite — are in it and work for the taxpayer as well. ~ . are in it and work for the taxpayer as well. ~ , . ., ., as well. we must leave it for now. thank you — as well. we must leave it for now. thank you very — as well. we must leave it for now. thank you very much. _ as well. we must leave it for now. thank you very much. we - as well. we must leave it for now. thank you very much. we are of l thank you very much. we are of course staying with this story throughout the hour. i think i can talk now to claire mosley who is the founder of care for calais. i believe she canjoin founder of care for calais. i believe she can join us shortlyjust to update you that certainly 27 people we know have died. that is the figure from the french police. as you would gather, very sadly that number is bigger than that and indeed may rise further. let's talk to claire. good evening. whatever the death toll, we know it's a very, very grim day. the death toll, we know it's a very, very grim day-— very grim day. thoughts first of all. part very grim day. thoughts first of all- part of— very grim day. thoughts first of all. part of the _ very grim day. thoughts first of all. part of the worst _ very grim day. thoughts first of all. part of the worst thing - very grim day. thoughts first of all. part of the worst thing for i very grim day. thoughts first of. all. part of the worst thing for us is that every single one of those people are refugee by definition has already suffered something horrific. whether they've been through complex torture, persecution, they probably had a really long and horrificjury just to get here. and the thought that somebody could escape from something really terrible, could go through hell, travel in immense journey thousands of mile to die a horrible death. when they come here seeking safety, they come here seeking safety, they come here seeking our help. the scale of the tragedy that it's here that they died, it's quite overwhelming. as you said, this is a really sad day. these people, they have done anything wrong, they've been born in the wrong place at the wrong time. it's just so wrong. we are absolutely devastated. and it's important we remember who they are and why they are here, they are asking for our help. so for them to die at our border, the uk border is just deeply, deeply saddening. and our hearts go out to their family, their friends our hearts go out to their family, theirfriends and to our hearts go out to their family, their friends and to the family and friends of anybody who is thinking of making thatjourney. because they are just going to of making thatjourney. because they arejust going to be of making thatjourney. because they are just going to be sitting, thinking about the fact that they've got relatives that might be making this incredibly dangerous crossing. can you imagine how frightening it must be for them? it is terrible, terrible day. we've heard of numbers like this drowning in the mediterranean but the idea of it happening at our channel, at our border, this is the uk, they should not be happening here, they should not be happening here, they should not be happening in our country. they will have paid people smugglers, criminals to make this very dangerous crossing. we just heard from labour nick thomas, is the idea there and from others that it is the people smugglers that must be targeted, the criminals must be targeted to stop this from happening, is at the right way to try to deal with this in your opinion? in try to deal with this in your opinion?— try to deal with this in your oinion? ., ., ., ., opinion? in our opinion, no. in our oinion opinion? in our opinion, no. in our opinion the — opinion? in our opinion, no. in our opinion the people _ opinion? in our opinion, no. in our opinion the people smugglers - opinion? in our opinion, no. in our opinion the people smugglers are| opinion? in our opinion, no. in our| opinion the people smugglers are a symptom rather than a cause of the problem. the cause is the underlying situation. it's the fact that in order to claim asylum from the uk you have to be specifically present here. and there's no way for them to get here. that's why they're making the dangerous journeys. get here. that's why they're making the dangerousjourneys. please the dangerous journeys. please believe the dangerousjourneys. please believe me, they don't want to, if there was an alternative they would be doing it. it's a situation that's causing the problem. if that situation didn't exist the people smugglers would be here. it's a creation of the business model for the smugglers. the solution is to change the situation is to create an alternative way so that they can either claim asylum from france or they can get here safely and then make their asylum claim. but if you remove that obstacle, you remove the people smugglers business. they are a symptom of an underlying problem but they are not the cause of the problem. if we fix it then people smugglers would go away which is what the government say they want. yes, they are evil and they are wrong and yes, we hate them. but i don't think they are the cause of the problem. i think they are the symptom. the problem. i think they are the s mtom. �* , ., . the problem. i think they are the s mtom. �* i. . ., symptom. and when you hear as we often do from _ symptom. and when you hear as we often do from various _ symptom. and when you hear as we often do from various politicians - often do from various politicians that migrants are meant to request asylum in the first safe country they enter, what do you make of that? �* , they enter, what do you make of that? �*, . , they enter, what do you make of that? �*, . ., that? it's technically inaccurate but more portly, _ that? it's technically inaccurate but more portly, what - that? it's technically inaccurate but more portly, what you - that? it's technically inaccurate | but more portly, what you need that? it's technically inaccurate i but more portly, what you need to think about is the fact that as they most often do. for example, if we take france, france takes three or four times as many refugees it's the uk every year. so most of the refugees that arrive from france will be staying in france. but there are reasons why refugees move on to other countries. there are some people who will want to come to the uk. believe me, they have to have a really strong reason because you do not go on those put two boats for no reason for the top if you are to risk your life is a strong reason for it. the most common reasons that we here are things like, if they have family here, connexions, if they speak english. there has to be a strong reason. there is no legal obligation on them to claim asylum in the first country. that is a misunderstanding. it's more important to look at the reasons. even more than that, i think it's important that we say, why are we asking a question quiz? because that question assumes that the uk is going to take no refugees at all. france takes in a lot more than us every year so does germany, so to spain. if you look across europe were actually quite low down on the table. there is no reason why in our opinion the uk should not take refugees than everybody else in europe does. i know the people in the uk at less than passionate. i know that people in the uk don't not care about you two refugees went all the other countries do. so why is there an assumption that we don't take any when other countries do? that's what the safe country assumes. it assumes that the uk doesn't want to take any at all. we take fewer than a lot of other countries but why would we want to take not at all if there are some who have got family here are connexions to our country? some of them could come here.— connexions to our country? some of them could come here. thank you very much. hello this is bbc news, i'mjane hill. the headlines — a t least 30 people heading for britain have died in the channel after their dinghy sank — according to the authorities in calais. the number of migrants that have crossed the channel has tripled in recent weeks compared to the same period last year. the head of the port of calais says he felt helpless in the face of this tragedy. europe, everywhere — in the face of this tragedy. europe, everywhere and — in the face of this tragedy. europe, everywhere and the _ in the face of this tragedy. europe, everywhere and the uk _ in the face of this tragedy. europe, everywhere and the uk we - in the face of this tragedy. europe, everywhere and the uk we must i in the face of this tragedy. europe, | everywhere and the uk we must all be trying _ everywhere and the uk we must all be trying to— everywhere and the uk we must all be trying to find a solution because there _ trying to find a solution because there will— trying to find a solution because there will be some more. and we are staying with his story tonight. a grim death toll in the channel. people trying to flee from calais, to travel from calais to dover teachers enter the uk that way. we know that the mayor of calais has said the fears among authorities there is that there are still bodies in the water that have not yet been recovered and that atolls will rise. let's discuss the issue with tony smith, the global border security consultant. good evening. it's a desperate day, one death is one to many. but your thoughts given the dreadful numbers that we appear to be talking about tonight. that we appear to be talking about toniaht. . ., that we appear to be talking about toniaht. , . ., that we appear to be talking about tonic ht. , . ., .,, . . tonight. first and foremost tragic, absolutely tragic. _ tonight. first and foremost tragic, absolutely tragic. and _ tonight. first and foremost tragic, absolutely tragic. and i'm - tonight. first and foremost tragic, absolutely tragic. and i'm afraid i absolutely tragic. and i'm afraid that this was something that was going to occur if we could not fix this problem of cross channel migrants. it's something that's been escalating for some time now. these waters, particularly as the eardrums on our increasingly dangerous to top these vessels are not seaworthy, they are being by human smugglers, they are being by human smugglers, they are being by human smugglers, they are overloaded and they do not carry life saving equipment. i'm afraid this was a tragedy waiting to happen. we must find a way of stopping these boats or i'm afraid mort will drown. bird stopping these boats or i'm afraid mort will drown.— stopping these boats or i'm afraid mort will drown. and is it a multi- focused approach? _ mort will drown. and is it a multi- focused approach? is _ mort will drown. and is it a multi- focused approach? is a _ mort will drown. and is it a multi- i focused approach? is a combination of tackling the people smugglers, the criminals at the heart of this, tackling the actual border issue, what would you focus on? what tackling the actual border issue, what would you focus on? what we need to do — what would you focus on? what we need to do is _ what would you focus on? what we need to do is work _ what would you focus on? what we need to do is work with _ what would you focus on? what we need to do is work with the french | need to do is work with the french government collaboratively on a joint mission to save lives. that is what we are both obliged to do under the un convention of the law of the city, we are obliged to save people who are in peril on international waters. now the uk borderfor stars. if we find someone in uk territory waters first and foremost our priority is to make sure they are safe and well. and they will be brought on board or they will be assured that they are escorted safely to a harbour where they can be made safe and well. that is our priority. we are not seeing that in french territorial waters. what we are seeing is our boats being launched under the noses of the french police and being pushed out to sea until such time as they reach british territorial waters. and we need to have a joint approach on the high seas, joint rescue operations. and when somebody is found they don't fear persecution either in the uk or france. they should be returned instantly to france where they can make it asylum application, they can make it asylum application, they were in a safer third country, they were in a safer third country, they can pursue it there. £311" they can pursue it there. our correspondent _ they can pursue it there. our correspondent in _ they can pursue it there. our correspondent in paris was making the point that the french authorities would argue that they do do patrols, they have extra money, there are patrols along the coast to that a lot of boats or stop. but by definition we hear about the ones that they don't stop. is there politics at play here is long two far as your concern?— politics at play here is long two far as your concern? yes, i think there is- — far as your concern? yes, i think there is. there _ far as your concern? yes, i think there is. there are _ far as your concern? yes, i think there is. there are over- far as your concern? yes, i think there is. there are over three i far as your concern? yes, i think. there is. there are over three and half thousand french police recently that dismantled what was known as the jungle. that dismantled what was known as thejungle. i was that dismantled what was known as the jungle. i was over there myself yesterday actually talking to some of the migrants and observing the situation. there are still migrant camp springing up all over that area in different places. most of the french police i saw were not on the beaches, they were actually inland around various institutions and lori parks. but not on the beaches. we've seen pictures emerging today of french police actually being on the beachesin french police actually being on the beaches in vehicles watching as these vessels are launched. so i don't think the french police are deploying all of their resources that they could do to stop the boat on the beaches. but even if they were, they also need to look at how they can stop these boats as they see them getting into the water to stop these boats, disembarking in the first place. because they are clearly un— seaworthy and by not intervening they are putting lives at risk. ., , ,, . ,, intervening they are putting lives at risk. ., , ,, . ~' , ., intervening they are putting lives at risk. ., , ,, . ,, ., at risk. tony smith, thank you or our at risk. tony smith, thank you or your time- _ at risk. tony smith, thank you or your time. former _ at risk. tony smith, thank you or your time. former head - at risk. tony smith, thank you or your time. former head of- at risk. tony smith, thank you or your time. former head of the i at risk. tony smith, thank you or| your time. former head of the uk borderfor is now your time. former head of the uk border for is now a your time. former head of the uk borderfor is now a global border security consultant. daniel sanford has joined security consultant. daniel sanford hasjoined me in the security consultant. daniel sanford has joined me in the studio. security consultant. daniel sanford hasjoined me in the studio. tony smith saying he thinks there's politics at play here. just remind us in terms of context. this is a desperate day, it's been a political discussion for a long time but now these are human lives again. this is a human side _ these are human lives again. this is a human side of— these are human lives again. this is a human side of it. _ these are human lives again. this is a human side of it. yeah, _ these are human lives again. this is a human side of it. yeah, and - these are human lives again. this is a human side of it. yeah, and by. a human side of it. yeah, and by huge amounts, the largest loss of life in a single instance in the channel. the biggest loss we had previously was in october of last year when an iranian family died, including a 15 month old boy. apart from that it's been individual deaths on individual occasions. now we are talking about 30 plus deaths. it does sound like there might�*ve been some survivors but basically, more than half of the people, about caring 50 people are potentially dead. this is something that has been blooming through the pandemic. partly because it became seen as a way of getting across the channel and partly because the other routes for getting across the channel have closed down by the pandemic. people who might have otherwise tried to come by plane as well. arguably, if it had been nipped in the bud at the very beginning it had not been seen as a viable route than it never would have got momentum. but it was allowed to get momentum, this route and it's become the default route for getting it from france to britain. as we've heard, clearly as the weather worsens, as people realise the season is closing, we would have in a thousand people a day crossing recently for that more than 25,000 people this year, with been warning for onset is going to been warning for onset is going to be a terrible tragedy. bird be a terrible tragedy. and unfortunately _ be a terrible tragedy. and unfortunately today - be a terrible tragedy. and unfortunately today it - be a terrible tragedy. and unfortunately today it is happened. and so when the government meet the government chairs, at the cobra meeting tonight, from the british perspective, what are the options as far as this government is concerned? we heard all sorts of ideas here in just the last hour. it’s we heard all sorts of ideas here in just the last hour.— just the last hour. it's a very difficult question. _ just the last hour. it's a very difficult question. politically | difficult question. politically because of the pressure they been getting from nigel faraj, this government has already been worrying about this issue from a political point of view as well as human at two humanitarian point of view. they been trying to work with the french they paid already towards increasing patrols on the french side of the border. the prime minister ahead of this tragedy had talked about taking the overall control out of the home office and putting it into the cabinet office to try and pull levers and other parts of government. but so far, all that's happened is the numbers have increased arguably, the number of people trying to process increased so we definitely have seen evidence over the last two years of successful interdiction of the french arresting gangs and people being stopped. but it hasn't managed to turn around the increase in numbers. how someone is going to have a brilliant idea now, i don't know. what refugee groups would say is actually, you've got to turn this thing upside down and you've got to find safer route, safer ways for people coming into britain so they don't need to make this dangerous journey. but of course it's very difficult for a government who was elected on partly immigration, immigration reasons about taking back control. for somebody to say working to create and much more open door policy for people want to claim asylum in britain, clearly, the british government stated solution is that people should be claiming asylum in france. it's a safe country, they don't need to cross the channel. but that hasn't turned off the top. there is not to be an instant solution to stop people getting on boats again tomorrow. hopefully, this sight of so many people having died in a single day may dissuade some people. but in the end, there are people smugglers there in france who are charging, not a fortune, £502,000 per head to get people across the channel and people are seeing that it's working and so they've been continuing to take the risk. bird and so they've been continuing to take the risk.— take the risk. and we think about why people _ take the risk. and we think about why people come _ take the risk. and we think about why people come here _ take the risk. and we think about why people come here despite i take the risk. and we think aboutl why people come here despite the mantra that they are meant to claim asylum in the first country they reach, they are coming to the uk for a variety of reasons of course. but sometimes it's because they already know people here.— know people here. often it's family. sometimes — know people here. often it's family. sometimes it's _ know people here. often it's family. sometimes it's to _ know people here. often it's family. sometimes it's to do _ know people here. often it's family. sometimes it's to do with _ know people here. often it's family. j sometimes it's to do with language, people feel more comfortable trying to seek asylum in a country where they can speak english. which is often the language that they've learned at school or during their lives as a second language. sometimes it is about economics, the french say it's too easy for people to find work in britain and the grey economy and that's why people come to britain rather than france. in the french have always said for years the french have said you make it too easy for people. the rules are very strict now in britain about working, being granted asylum. the french argument is that people still manage to find a way to work in the grey economy. there won't be easy solutions to those. there are those who say that it didn't matter if it had been nipped in the bud during javits time maybe it wouldn't have grown this far. partly the reason for the growth has been the pandemic. for the growth has been the pandemic-— for the growth has been the andemic. ., ~' , ., , . pandemic. thank you very much. listenin: pandemic. thank you very much. listening to _ pandemic. thank you very much. listening to all— pandemic. thank you very much. listening to all our— pandemic. thank you very much. listening to all our coverage - pandemic. thank you very much. listening to all our coverage is l pandemic. thank you very much. listening to all our coverage is a | listening to all our coverage is a weak gardener. she is from the joint councilfor a welfare for council for a welfare for immigrants. councilfor a welfare for immigrants. your thoughts tonight about this desperate loss of life. good evening, jane. it's an unthinkable tragedy. every time that we hear more people losing their lives they are militarising closed borders around europe, our hearts go out to their loved ones. it's just such a waste of potential of human life. and we are truly saddened tonight. but this has to mark a point of change for this government. this government is pursuing an agenda that aims to deny refugees protection. their own assessment says that it will force people to take more ginger as journeys, says that it will force people to take more ginger asjourneys, there is no evidence that it's going to stop the boats. and that's we are seeing time and time again. thousands of people have died in the mediterranean, they still try to make the crossing. until we offer people ways to travel safely and in a regular way that we know where they are and that they are safe and who they are and they come into a system and seek asylum in a system thatis system and seek asylum in a system that is functioning properly, we will continue to see these tragedies. and it really is time for this government to turn around and give us a new approach on asylum. you will know that something the government says consistently is that in asylum—seekers is meant to claim asylum in the first safe country they come through. so by definition, thatis they come through. so by definition, that is not the uk. what are your thoughts when you hear that? i that is not the uk. what are your thoughts when you hear that? i hear a government _ thoughts when you hear that? i hear a government that's _ thoughts when you hear that? i hear a government that's trying _ thoughts when you hear that? i hear a government that's trying to - thoughts when you hear that? i re:— a government that's trying to make excuses. a government that is trying to follow an approach that has been demonstrated to fail. there is no requirement on people to seek asylum in the first country they reach. of course there is other ways was that nobody would end up seeking protection in the uk. the uk as a compassionate country but it's also a rich and powerful and stable country and we are very able to offer protection to lots more refugees than we do. if everybody is supposed to stay in france because we are slightly to the west of france and france can say the same thing to italy and italy can say the same thing to libya and in the end the entire international refugee protection regime will crumble. we need to step up and play our part. it's no good hiding behind, "well they should've done sudden different. they did to some different, they are here they've been here and it's time to change our approach. the been here and it's time to change our approach-— been here and it's time to change our approach. the head of the port of calais was _ our approach. the head of the port of calais was very _ our approach. the head of the port of calais was very upset _ our approach. the head of the port of calais was very upset when he i of calais was very upset when he spoke to me half an hour or so ago. and he kept calling the people smugglers murderers. he used that word over and over again. is that an area that should be tackled as well, the people making money out of this? absolutely. this is why i say that this is the moment when the government must change its approach and turnaround on this bill. because the bill would we have been part of it now is complicit with the people smugglers. untilwe it now is complicit with the people smugglers. until we have a bill that offers people in alternative way to travel to seek protection in the country where they are safe, where they can be with the family then we are complicit with the people smugglers who put people on these boats. the people smugglers rub their hands with glee every time our home secretary goes and announces they are building another fence. because as we've seen time and time again, they can move faster than the police and they will find another more dangerous route. and they can put the price up and people will take the risk. it's time to pull her head out of the sand, this tragedy has to be the end of the story, we have to offer people alternatives to the smugglers boats. and that may mean yes, that we are talking about asylum—seekers coming into this country and us facilitating that. and it may not be the agenda that this government wants to put out there but are we talking about stopping people from making dangerousjourneys, enriching smugglers and dying and tragedies that we see tonight or are we talking about stopping refugees come to the uk at all? those are two different things i think we need to stop the dangerous journeys but we need to welcome refugees. we can do that, we have to after doing that offer people regular ways of travelling. offer people regular ways of travelling-— offer people regular ways of travellinu. ., ~' ., travelling. thank you for your time. just as we were _ travelling. thank you for your time. just as we were hearing _ travelling. thank you for your time. just as we were hearing from - travelling. thank you for your time. just as we were hearing from zoe . just as we were hearing from zoe we just had a few more details in from france itself. again, a few more comments from the mayor of calais saying that the death toll now stands at 31. and another two people believed missing. so the number of people who have drowned now stands at 31, that is coming from the mayor of calais. as we've been reflecting we hear that certainly eyewitnesses at the scene saying that about 50 people are believed to have been in the boat that capsized. the next few minutes of course we will have all the latest on a dreadful afternoon. that is coming up on the news at six. huw edwards with you for that. just to remind you before i leave you of what we know so far this afternoon. 3i you of what we know so far this afternoon. 31 people now confirmed as having died after that boat capsized. it was trying to make its way from calais to dover. with in the last hour i was talking to the head of the port of calais, i referred to his interview several times because he was extremely emotional, kept using the word murderers in relation to the people smugglers, the people traffickers and shrugged his shoulders several times and said, "i don't know what to do. use describe the very bad weather conditions in the area but he said despite that, despite the bad weather, despite the conditions, despite the fact that the people smugglers at her work here, he said, this will happen again. he said that several times as well. as he put it to me, people want to come to your country so it will happen again. and he described really dreadful weather conditions and the boat he said all it takes is some water to get into the boat and then it sizes. he said there are a very big ways out there, water gets into the boat and then we are all talking about the situation that we have been discussing for the last hour. 31 people tonight known to have died in their attempts to of the uk and claim asylum. much more coming up of course in the news at six. you're watching bbc news. more coming up in the next couple of minutes. we will pause momentarily. we will take a look at the weather prospects tonight wherever you are in the country they come from been rich. good evening. a decidedly cold feel to the weather as we head towards the end of this week, but not only cold weather, some quite turbulent weather on the way as well. spells of rain, sleet and snow in the forecast and the risk of severe gales, particularly through friday night and into the start of the weekend. now, as we go through this evening and tonight, we've got this area of cloud and patchy rain continuing to sink its way southwards. behind that, the skies clear, some colder air filtering down from the north with some showers into northern ireland and northern scotland. the showers here will be wintry, blustery winds with gusts of 50mph or more in the most exposed spots in the far north. and temperatures widely getting close to freezing, below freezing in places, so a touch of frost to start tomorrow morning. and all of us feeling the effects of this cold air. where you're exposed to the brisk winds, particularly around coastal areas, well, there's a potential for some showers. wintry showers in northern scotland, especially over high ground, but even to relatively low levels i think we could see some snow mixing in. elsewhere, though, a lot of sunshine. it's a bright, crisp day, a cold day with top temperatures between 5—9 degrees. maybe just getting up to ten there in the channel islands. now, as we head into friday, this area of low pressure dives its way into the picture. that'll strengthen the winds. it'll bring outbreaks of rain southwards through friday morning, and with cold air continuing to tuck in from the north, well, there is a potential for some wintry showers across the north and the west and this curl of a weather front bringing some quite significant snow to parts of northern scotland through the day. a cold day, a windy day, in fact increasingly windy as we get into the evening. now, depending upon the exact shape of this area of low pressure, somewhere is likely to see the isobars really squashing together, meaning a swathe of extremely strong winds, especially to the north and the west of the uk, perhaps for wales and south west england, parts of north east england as well. gales are likely, severe gales in places. with some areas of rain, sleet and snow drifting southwards, that wintry weather only slowly pushing eastwards on saturday. it stays quite windy for many, just a little calmer out towards the west. and it is going to feel cold, particularly when you factor in the strength of the wind. sunday does look a little calmer for all of us, but temperatures really will struggle, 3—7 degrees. today at 6pm... at least 27 migrants are feared to have drowned after their boat capsized trying to cross the english channel. —— at least 31. the latest reports suggest the worst incident of its kind since the migrant crisis started. a rescue operation is still under way. i a rescue operation is still under wa . ~' a rescue operation is still under wa . ~ , . way. i think, with such bad weather” _ way. i think, with such bad weather,, with _ way. i think, with such bad weather,, with awful - way. i think, with such bad| weather, , with awful see... way. i think, with such bad l weather,, with awful see... i way. i think, with such bad - weather,, with awful see... i am in dover where _ weather,, with awful see... i am in dover where the _ weather,, with awful see... i am in dover where the authorities - weather,, with awful see... i am in dover where the authorities on - weather,, with awful see... i am in| dover where the authorities on both sides of the channel have been warning it was only a matter of time before there was a tragedy out there at sea. and the prime minister is to chair an emergency committee on the crisis. also today, from the headquarters of bbc scotland in glasgow... the first minister of scotland tells the bbc she will serve a full term until 2026, and she intends to press

Related Keywords

People , Channel , Bbc News , Headlines , Dinghy , Britain , Jane Hill , 20 , French , Vessel Boat , Migrants , Number , Government , Nicola Sturgeon , Data , Yea R S Total , Scotland S , Prime Minister , Way , Widow , Emergency Service Workers , Campaign , Legislation , Independence , Referendum , Killers , Pc , Life Sentences , Andrew Harper , Scottish Parliament , Law Of The Sea , Point , Laws , We Wa , Work , Care , Performance , Promises , Borisjohnson , Funding , Labour , Mister Speaker , Line , Itell You , You What Well , Everything 0k , Men , Itell , Itellyou , Two , 0k , Michael Vaughan , Murder , Former , England , Search , Body , Suspicion , Bbc S Ashes Coverage , Anne Mcleod , Bobbi , 18 , Allegation , Remark , News , Coverage , Hello , Water , Northern France , Calais , Fishing Boat , Coast , English Channel , Alarm , Inflatable Dinghy , Reports , Authorities , Mayor , Bodies , Rescue Operation , Fact 2a , French Television , 2 , Numbers , Situation , Terms , News Agency , Conceit , Anyone , Asa , Life , Loss , Correspondent , Rebecca Jones , Simonjones , At , Afternoon , Lives , Incident , Beaches , Deaths , Passing Fisherman , Sink , Interior Minister , Figure , Heart , Fact , Confirmation , Tragedy , Issue , La Lot , Scale , Sense , Making Thejourney , 6000 , Prediction Inl Boats , Many , Journey , Thousands , Trouble , Ten , Thoughts , Ministry , Concern , Wall , Simon Jones , Simon Jonesjust , Death Toll , Simon Jones Tragedy , Half , Couple , Information , Pieces , International Organisation For Migration , 2014 , One , Hearing , Organisation , Premise , Emergency Cobra Meeting , Cabinet Emergency Briefing , Emergency Cobra Briefing , Understanding , Dover , Natalie Elphicke , Human Situation , Everyone , Lam Hearing , Update , Event , 30 , Cold , Conditions , Safety , Ideal , Country , Seas , Approaches , Winter Approaches , Calling , Shores , It Boats , Dangerousjourney , Money , Assistance , Surveillance , Forms , Countries , Patrols , Other , European , Risk , End , Safe , Crossing Crisis , Emigrants , Police , End , Trade , Truly , Us , Ust , 27 , Course , Smugglers , Criminals , Asylum System , Charities , Asylum Request , Activity , People Smugglers , Trips , It , A O , Boats , Wake Up Call , Hands , Single , Resolve , Governments , The French Beaches , Boats Crossings Route , Mp , Boat , Again , Events , Others , Conservative , Aaain , Hugh Schofield , Narrative , Paris , Picture , Times , Criticism , Of Well , Sensitive , View , Authority , Percentage , Saying , View Well , Authority Government , We Authority , I , Success Rate , Same , Truth , Catch , Prediction , Rate , Isj , Element , Regulations , Politics , Beach , There , Action , Stretch , Lot , It Lot , Wel , Journalists , Sea , We L Know , Stake , Know , Question , It Sea , Rocketing , Bow , Rules , Children , Estoppel , On , Stop A , Iti , Itl Around , Loophole , Traffickers , Look , It Interesting , Yes , A Rules , Lookj , Gendarme , Reinforcements , Viewers , Actually , Who , Ourviewers , Atrols , Patrolling , It Up , Night Out Patrolling , Set , , Ways , Figures , Easily , Buses , Most , Someone , Border , Vans , Belgiumj Buses , Crossing , Germany , Belgium , The Buses , Andl , 24 , Movement , Area , Roads , Think , I Roads , People Who , Say , Thanks , Side , Gendarme Out Every Night , Chair , You Schofield , Sign , Importance , Latest , Importance Hearing , Cover Meeting , Helen , Cobra Meeting , Emergency Committee , Incidents , Emergency Committee Thatis Meeting , Exec , Politicians , Reaction , Westminster , The Labour Shadow Home Secretary , Nick Thomas Simmons , Efforts , Programme , Place , Allen , Place Water , Horse , Head , Sports , Cat , Marc Puissesseau , Boulogne , Evening , Level , Equipment , Injured , I , Boat Rowihg , Five , 50 , Six , Port , Calais Port , Rowing , Eo Le , Ship , Meeting , Oman , Members , Weather , Don T Know , Idon T Know , Pay , It Isjust , Waves , Weather Conditions , Seat , Deceit , Murderers , Cross , Deceit Conditions , Dream , Country Migrants , Big Waves , Reallym , Solution , More , Everywhere , Be , Thing , Arain , Chance , Vessel , Survival , Some , Something , Calm , Middle , Everything , Organisations , Hundreds , Special Stay , Greece , Italy , Cannot Go On , Our , Home , Home Ministry , Helicopters , 70 , Murders , Ijust Don T , Home Affairs Minister , Them , Hospital , Iwill , Ointosa , Problem , Control , Things , The Trucks , Trucks , Power , Anything , Powerforthat , Lam , Trying , Upset , Responsibility , Responsibility Forthat , Politician , Minister , Job , Eight , Human Problem , Ithink , Cost , Outside Calais , Outside , Help , Points , Don T Tonight , Controllin , To , Debate , Agreement , Pleasure , In , Relation , Reason , Poor , Comments , Last , Shadow Home Secretary , Let S Talk , Reasons , Nick Thomas Simons , Politicalterms , Guest , Interview , Thatj , Emotion , Voice , Sobering Day , Listening , Community , Tens , Livesl , Reminder , Waters , Tragic , Shipping Lanes , World , Calls , Lives , Makeshift , Find , Pe0pte , 0pte , Coastline , The Coast , Ones , Entirety , Unrealistic , Deal , Addition , Trolls , Law Enforcement Action , Part , Law Enforcement , Law Addition , People Don T , Closable Troiis , Refugees , We Smugglers , Lengthyjourney , A Northern France , Lengthyjourney Facilitated , Lengthyjourney Come On A Facilitated , Come On A Lengthyjourney Facilitated , Ideas , Law Enforcement Work , Focus , Stage , Enforcement Work , Frenchi Enforcement Work , Authorities Enforcement Work , Wider , People At , Widerjoint Law , Widerjoint , Widerjoint Law Enforcement Work Ideas , Dub Scheme , Candour Transport Of , Routes , Example , Reinstating , Alf Dobbs , Dub , Furtheri , Alf Dohhs , Stay , Candour Transport , Nazi Persecution , Alf Dobbs He Was Caked On The Candour Transport , Nazi , Transport , Reinstated , Caked On Thei Candour Transport , Ia Nazi Persecution , Urgently Ia Nazi Persecution , Well On Bbc World News , Can , 1930 , Scene , Calais Say , Eyewitnesses , Emergency Cobra Tonight , The Shadow , Home Office , Essential , Cobra , Lee Today , Tragic Lee Today , Needs , English , Tragic Lee , Measures , Law , Roots , Favour , Helping , Scheme , Unaccompanied , Which , 480 , 3000 , Asylum , Changes , System , Asylum Laws , Talk , 2019 , 87 , Three , Four , 11 , 311 , 15 , 25000 , A Thousand , 02000 , 502000 , 31 , 3 , 9 , 5 , 7 , 6 , 2026 ,