for the media show. hello. there have been some nervy crossed fingers in the media world after a long 18 months, we finally found out who is listening to what on the radio. what did we learn from the first audience status the pandemic began. with many of working from home, travel time favourite taking a hit and how its broadcast radio done against the giants of silicon valley with their wealth podcast. let me introduce her to today's guests. chief content officer at jack to today's guests. chief content officer atjack media. for audiences that don't know, what is jack media? jack for audiences that don't know, what is jack media? jack media u-rou what is jack media? jack media a-rou is what is jack media? jack media grow) is one — what is jack media? jack media grow) is one of— what is jack media? jack media group is one of the _ what is jack media? jack media group is one of the few - group is one of the few remaining completely independent radio groups in the uk and we operate six radio stations. three national radio stations. three national radio stations unionjack, unionjack stations union jack, union jack danson stations unionjack, unionjack danson unionjack rock. most of them launched during the pandemic and three stations operating the oxfordshire area. jack fm which is the first jack station in the uk and originally started in north america and jackjust make it inject three in shale. those are the six services that we operate at the beginning of the pandemic and there were only for another is six.— for another is six. you have done well _ for another is six. you have done well and _ for another is six. you have done well and expanded . for another is six. you have | done well and expanded and for another is six. you have - done well and expanded and will come to chat with you a bit later on about that and also joining us today is matt, creative director at boulder media. you advised audio companies and other strategies. as of last week been a bit like a level results?— a level results? absolutely. it's always _ a level results? absolutely. it's always like _ a level results? absolutely. it's always like that - a level results? absolutely. it's always like that when i a level results? absolutely. l it's always like that when new figures — it's always like that when new figures come in. everyone was to figures come in. everyone was iciudge — figures come in. everyone was tojudge themselves figures come in. everyone was to judge themselves against their— to judge themselves against their peers as well as seeing how— their peers as well as seeing how they— their peers as well as seeing how they get on. we haven't had any data — how they get on. we haven't had any data since the audience data — any data since the audience dala for— any data since the audience data for 18 months. because of the way— data for 18 months. because of the way it— data for 18 months. because of the way it is collected in the pandemic on the way of that. a lot of— pandemic on the way of that. a lot of stations, especially some _ lot of stations, especially some new lunches that were definitely teen to work on the family— definitely teen to work on the family was out there. miranda sa er, family was out there. miranda sawyer. radio _ family was out there. miranda sawyer, radio critic— family was out there. miranda sawyer, radio critic at - family was out there. miranda sawyer, radio critic at the - sawyer, radio critic at the observer. do you feel you have to review these are the biggest audience was green absolutely not, actually. it's a bit like there are some programmes that are absolutely the there are some programmes that are absolutel— are absolutely the biggest in the world is _ are absolutely the biggest in the world is joe _ are absolutely the biggest in the world is joe rogan - are absolutely the biggest in the world is joe rogan i - are absolutely the biggest in the world is joe rogan i feel| the world isjoe rogan i feel absolutely— the world isjoe rogan i feel absolutely no _ the world isjoe rogan i feel absolutely no compunction i the world isjoe rogan i feel. absolutely no compunction to review — absolutely no compunction to review that _ absolutely no compunction to review that at _ absolutely no compunction to review that at all. _ absolutely no compunction to review that at all. i'm - absolutely no compunction to review that at all. i'm much l review that at all. i'm much more — review that at all. i'm much more interested _ review that at all. i'm much more interested in- review that at all. i'm much more interested in new- review that at all. i'm much more interested in new andj more interested in new and interesting _ more interested in new and interesting and _ more interested in new and interesting and sometimesl more interested in new andl interesting and sometimes i more interested in new and - interesting and sometimes i go back_ interesting and sometimes i go back to — interesting and sometimes i go back to very— interesting and sometimes i go back to very long—established i back to very long—established radio— back to very long—established radio shows _ back to very long—established radio shows to _ back to very long—established radio shows to see _ back to very long—established radio shows to see others - back to very long—established . radio shows to see others doing press _ radio shows to see others doing press avenue _ radio shows to see others doing press avenue presenter- radio shows to see others doing press avenue presenter and - press avenue presenter and especially— press avenue presenter and especially with— press avenue presenter and i especially with long—standing radio— especially with long—standing radio programmes, _ especially with long—standing radio programmes, a - especially with long—standing radio programmes, a kind - especially with long—standing radio programmes, a kind ofl radio programmes, a kind of took— radio programmes, a kind of took a — radio programmes, a kind of took a long _ radio programmes, a kind of took a long and _ radio programmes, a kind of took a long and if— radio programmes, a kind of took a long and if you - radio programmes, a kind of took a long and if you go - radio programmes, a kind of. took a long and if you go back took a long and if you go back to review— took a long and if you go back to review them _ took a long and if you go back to review them every - took a long and if you go back to review them every week, l to review them every week, everyone _ to review them every week, everyone would _ to review them every week, everyone would just - to review them every week, everyone would just be - to review them every week, | everyone would just be like, what's — everyone would just be like, what's the _ everyone would just be like, what's the point _ everyone would just be like, what's the point of - everyone would just be like, what's the point of that, - what's the point of that, really? _ what's the point of that, reall ? �* . . , what's the point of that, reall? n . _ what's the point of that, reall? , ., really? actually is the senior re orter really? actually is the senior reporter at _ really? actually is the senior reporter at this _ really? actually is the senior reporter at this and - really? actually is the senior reporter at this and hot - really? actually is the senior reporter at this and hot pod | reporter at this and hot pod and there is no official data for the podcast, how do you know what it's doing well and what is not than? {lilli know what it's doing well and what is not than?— know what it's doing well and what is not than? oh my gosh, on a show _ what is not than? oh my gosh, on a show by — what is not than? oh my gosh, on a show by show _ what is not than? oh my gosh, on a show by show level, - what is not than? oh my gosh, on a show by show level, it - what is not than? oh my gosh, on a show by show level, it is i on a show by show level, it is difficult. put pacifically it's for people who are journalists, the case for advertisers, brands, you're going in the trust system a little bit. i don't want to bore everyone with the technical things, but there are ways to do it on the technical side. there are ways to do it on the technicalside. but there are ways to do it on the technical side. but for us, third parties. we kind of relying on trust and serving data as far as industry wise. starting with the radio results, creative director for the media, what are the radars? what they are is a quarterly snapshot of radio stations who is listening. — snapshot of radio stations who is listening, what _ is listening, what demographics, but people are listening and listening on. modern— listening and listening on. modern devices or the internet. and he — modern devices or the internet. and he gives figures for every 15 minutes of every station in the uk — 15 minutes of every station in the uk it— 15 minutes of every station in the uk. it is actually one of the — the uk. it is actually one of the biggest surveyors in europe. they speak to around 20 to 25,000 — europe. they speak to around 20 to 25,000 people every quarter. and ask— to 25,000 people every quarter. and ask what they listen to. people _ and ask what they listen to. people keep a diary and that can be — people keep a diary and that can be on— people keep a diary and that can be on their phone, the cornputer— can be on their phone, the computer if they really want to, they _ computer if they really want to, they can write it in a book and _ to, they can write it in a book and given— to, they can write it in a book and givena— to, they can write it in a book and given a week to fill that and — and given a week to fill that and that— and given a week to fill that and that all goes into the pot and that all goes into the pot and its — and that all goes into the pot and its measured that way. this time _ and its measured that way. this time around, the edits and electronic measurements and is a few— electronic measurements and is a few thousand people who've -ot a few thousand people who've got a — a few thousand people who've got a special app on their phone _ got a special app on their phone that listens to audio and listening — phone that listens to audio and listening to the same audio that— listening to the same audio that the _ listening to the same audio that the humans that have that phone — that the humans that have that phone in— that the humans that have that phone in their pocket also are listening _ phone in their pocket also are listening to. and so, they blend _ listening to. and so, they blend some of the data together to get— blend some of the data together to get a — blend some of the data together to get a representation of the people — to get a representation of the people are listening to across the country. 335 people are listening to across the country-— the country. as you 'ust said, we haven-t h the country. as you 'ust said, we haven't had _ the country. as you 'ust said, we haven't had any h the country. as you just said, we haven't had any data - the country. as you just said, we haven't had any data for l the country. as you just said, | we haven't had any data for 18 months and that is been because of the pandemic and now that they've changed methodology, is a really fair to compare these figures to others was blue around 80% of the information still comes from the regular methodology. it's always existed. i've had a deep dive pin into the data and what i would expect has come through and teams are pretty good at the comparison to what happened previously. can you give a sense from how these stats are to you as a business because presumably, it's about being in the glove doing very well. this a the glove doing very well. as a commercial — the glove doing very well. as a commercial radio _ the glove doing very well. as a commercial radio stations, by the advertising _ commercial radio stations, by the advertising that _ commercial radio stations, by the advertising that we - commercial radio stations, by the advertising that we can i the advertising that we can carry. _ the advertising that we can carry. and _ the advertising that we can carry, and what _ the advertising that we can carry, and what we - the advertising that we can carry, and what we can - the advertising that we can - carry, and what we can generate and small— carry, and what we can generate and small media _ carry, and what we can generate and small media operators- carry, and what we can generate and small media operators by. and small media operators by yourselves, _ and small media operators by yourselves, it's— and small media operators by yourselves, it's also - and small media operators by yourselves, it's also useful i yourselves, it's also useful and — yourselves, it's also useful and very— yourselves, it's also useful and very powerful- yourselves, it's also useful and very powerful to - and very powerful to demonstrate - and very powerful to demonstrate the - and very powerful to - demonstrate the audience and very powerful to _ demonstrate the audience that they can — demonstrate the audience that they can add _ demonstrate the audience that they can add. and _ demonstrate the audience that they can add. and there - demonstrate the audience that they can add. and there are i they can add. and there are people _ they can add. and there are people who _ they can add. and there are people who only— they can add. and there are people who only listed - they can add. and there are people who only listed our. people who only listed our services _ people who only listed our services and _ people who only listed our services and if _ people who only listed our services and if you - people who only listed our services and if you want i people who only listed our- services and if you want them, you need — services and if you want them, you need to _ services and if you want them, you need to come _ services and if you want them, you need to come to _ services and if you want them, you need to come to a - you need to come to a stations and share _ you need to come to a stations and share very— you need to come to a stations and share very little _ you need to come to a stations and share very little listening l and share very little listening with — and share very little listening with some _ and share very little listening with some of _ and share very little listening with some of the _ and share very little listening with some of the big - and share very little listening with some of the big national radio— with some of the big national radio stations _ with some of the big national radio stations and _ with some of the big national radio stations and some - with some of the big national radio stations and some of. with some of the big national. radio stations and some of the other— radio stations and some of the other local— radio stations and some of the other local radio— radio stations and some of the other local radio stations. - other local radio stations. it's — other local radio stations. it's believed _ other local radio stations. it's believed the - other local radio stations. it's believed the lifebloodj other local radio stations. . it's believed the lifeblood of commercial— it's believed the lifeblood of commercial radio. _ it's believed the lifeblood of commercial radio. and - it's believed the lifeblood of commercial radio. and it- it's believed the lifeblood of commercial radio. and it is. commercial radio. and it is very— commercial radio. and it is very much— commercial radio. and it is very much to _ commercial radio. and it is very much to be _ commercial radio. and it is very much to be all- commercial radio. and it is very much to be all in - commercial radio. and it is very much to be all in all. i very much to be all in all. there's— very much to be all in all. there's a _ very much to be all in all. there's a lot _ very much to be all in all. there's a lot to _ very much to be all in all. there's a lot to unpack. l very much to be all in all. i there's a lot to unpack. who the big winners and losers were. miranda sawyer, the pandemic saw a big shift in home working, lots of people very much nervous about how that impacted practice radio, with a right to worry? stand that impacted practice radio, with a right to worry? and the bbc moved — with a right to worry? and the bbc moved show _ with a right to worry? and the bbc moved show so _ with a right to worry? and the bbc moved show so they - with a right to worry? and the| bbc moved show so they were very— bbc moved show so they were very aware of the people working from home and so break the show— working from home and so break the show started earlier and so break— the show started earlier and so break the — the show started earlier and so break the show started earlier were — break the show started earlier were shifted later and in order to kind — were shifted later and in order to kind of— were shifted later and in order to kind of work with them because _ to kind of work with them because no one was commuting, i think— because no one was commuting, i think they— because no one was commuting, i think they said i read the analysis— think they said i read the analysis and also, there is what — analysis and also, there is what used to happen is we had a bil what used to happen is we had a big peak— what used to happen is we had a big peak at breakfast and tea time — big peak at breakfast and tea time and that is to deal with driving — time and that is to deal with driving and commuting and because _ driving and commuting and because people are working from home, _ because people are working from home, the — because people are working from home, the still pretty much working _ home, the still pretty much working from home and that is kind _ working from home and that is kind of— working from home and that is kind of evened out with a slight, _ kind of evened out with a slight, instead of saying this, it's not— slight, instead of saying this, it's not working a radio. | slight, instead of saying this, it's not working a radio. i was about to _ it's not working a radio. i was about to say. _ it's not working a radio. i was about to say, i _ it's not working a radio. i was about to say, i can _ it's not working a radio. i was about to say, i can see - it's not working a radio. i was about to say, i can see your. about to say, i can see your hand. ., �* . ~' about to say, i can see your hand. ., �*, ,, ., ., hand. now it's kind of a small hill rather _ hand. now it's kind of a small hill rather than _ hand. now it's kind of a small hill rather than a _ hand. now it's kind of a small hill rather than a suspension l hill rather than a suspension bridge — hill rather than a suspension bridge and that is because switching on what they're listening to her podcast and is letting — listening to her podcast and is letting that ride while they're going — letting that ride while they're going about their day. what about daytime _ going about their day. what about daytime listening? i about daytime listening? because people stuck at home in the last year, are they craving the last year, are they craving the company of the radio? everyone was incredibly worried about _ everyone was incredibly worried about podcasts but radio did really — about podcasts but radio did really well during the pandemic because — really well during the pandemic because people were stuck at home — because people were stuck at home of— because people were stuck at home of the one thing that radio— home of the one thing that radio is— home of the one thing that radio is really good at is the community. it was interesting being — community. it was interesting being an — community. it was interesting being an audio reviewer at the time _ being an audio reviewer at the time because of the other art forms— time because of the other art forms are _ time because of the other art forms are dropped off. and so suddenly, _ forms are dropped off. and so suddenly, every time we reviewed anything, is on the front— reviewed anything, is on the front page of the observer which _ front page of the observer which is _ front page of the observer which is unusual for me. and what — which is unusual for me. and what people wanted was a companionship i do think that radio— companionship i do think that radio is— companionship i do think that radio is really excellent at that _ radio is really excellent at that. does a lot of podcast i could — that. does a lot of podcast i could do— that. does a lot of podcast i could do that but didn't do that— could do that but didn't do that throughout the day that the way _ that throughout the day that the way a radio station can. is still the way a radio station can. still the the way a radio station can. is still the most intimate form of communication and also. if still the most intimate form of communication and also. if you have a favourite _ communication and also. if you have a favourite station, - have a favourite station, they'll _ have a favourite station, they'lljust switch it on and they— they'lljust switch it on and they are _ they'lljust switch it on and they are happy to listen to the vibe _ they are happy to listen to the vibe that— they are happy to listen to the vibe that station throughout the whole day.— vibe that station throughout the whole day. chief content officer, the whole day. chief content officer. do — the whole day. chief content officer, do you _ the whole day. chief content officer, do you recognise - the whole day. chief content i officer, do you recognise these listening habits?— listening habits? yeah, i think one of the _ listening habits? yeah, i think one of the things _ listening habits? yeah, i think one of the things that - listening habits? yeah, i think one of the things that is - listening habits? yeah, i think one of the things that is true l one of the things that is true is because of the timeframe, a lot of the methodology in this and radio measurement can take place during the pandemic and so, these results don't really reflect what happened during lockdown, for example and for that, we might turn to our streaming stats. those are factual numbers we could see how many devices are connected and how many people are listening in that shot up dramatically during the lockdown period and undoubtedly, there was a platform shift and people not sitting in the car in the morning in the sing to the radio in the car and missing on other platforms, smart speakers, etc. there was a bit of that going on but i think also, the pandemic and working from home rather than being in an office environment rather than a radio station those judging it for you, you can choose your own radio station and maybe explore some radio stations that you might not of this into before. so, i think there was a lot of that going on and absolutely agree with miranda. the thing that radio delivers more than anything is the ability to be topical, to be insightful with today's events but also, it is that friend in the room but for musical perspective, it is the consideration of the output rather than what i'm listening to is driven some algorithm. but about podcasts perspective the likes of specifying amazon audible, did they see their broadcasts stats go up during the pandemic?— the pandemic? clinic yet, in terms of— the pandemic? clinic yet, in terms of research _ the pandemic? clinic yet, in terms of research and - the pandemic? clinic yet, in| terms of research and study, they went up every single years they went up every single years they did see growth. we are seeing a tonne of investments and also on the radio side of think and also on the radio side of thin r ., f , and also on the radio side of thin r ., j , ., think and they're trying to disru -t think and they're trying to disrupt radio, _ think and they're trying to disrupt radio, if _ think and they're trying to disrupt radio, if you're - think and they're trying to i disrupt radio, if you're trying to capture that same listening experience, i am saying they're not doing — experience, i am saying they're not doing well but they are trying _ not doing well but they are trying. but there's a lot of investment and was receiving that— investment and was receiving that payoff in the sense that more — that payoff in the sense that more people are discovering podcasts and just audio in generat _ podcasts and just audio in general. in podcasts and 'ust audio in ueneral. , . . , general. in the pandemic, they launched times _ general. in the pandemic, they launched times radio _ general. in the pandemic, they launched times radio and - general. in the pandemic, they launched times radio and so i general. in the pandemic, they i launched times radio and so how did they do?— did they do? they did pretty well. did they do? they did pretty well- over _ did they do? they did pretty well. over 630,000 - did they do? they did pretty. well. over 630,000 listeners did they do? they did pretty i well. over 630,000 listeners a week and that is perhaps small fry compared to radio for with over 2 million listeners and they've done very well for a long time. and they weren't really sure and they were very hopeful to get over half a million and i was their aim and that's with they taught their advertisers and so, i think they are pleased with their first book. and it also shows a lot of opportunity for growth still. quite often, it is partly about confidence. confidence from your own team and also confidence in advertisers, people and organisations who can suddenly look at your information and the people that i want to back. can i say really quickly that i know of a commercial group of stations that when the radio stations that when the radio station comes on, and prepend think they would gather everybody and a large environment and tell people about this. it definitely matters to commercial stations what they get. is matters to commercial stations what they get-— what they get. is the lifeblood in the be-all_ what they get. is the lifeblood in the be-all and _ what they get. is the lifeblood in the be-all and end-all. i what they get. is the lifeblood in the be-all and end-all. but| in the be-all and end-all. but ou in the be-all and end-all. but you work— in the be-all and end-all. but you work for— in the be-all and end-all. but you work for the _ in the be—all and end—all. emit you work for the observer but what have you made of times radio? is what have you made of times radio? , . ., , ., what have you made of times radio? ,. ._ ., , , radio? is clearly done pretty well in terms _ radio? is clearly done pretty well in terms of _ radio? is clearly done pretty well in terms of business i radio? is clearly done pretty| well in terms of business but in terms _ well in terms of business but in terms of identity, it's got really— in terms of identity, it's got really strong presenters which is what — really strong presenters which is what you need. presenters for the — is what you need. presenters for the audience and also because _ for the audience and also because the times is obviously a great — because the times is obviously a great newspaper, it can promote _ a great newspaper, it can promote in lines across the radio— promote in lines across the radio but— promote in lines across the radio but it can pick up little. _ radio but it can pick up little, little things in an interview that perhaps they happened in an afternoon he can then— happened in an afternoon he can then focus— happened in an afternoon he can then focus on that the next day — then focus on that the next day. they did that and is that classic— day. they did that and is that classic thing of a radio presenter getting a quote that was not — presenter getting a quote that was not news. it was already up there but— was not news. it was already up there but then the times can treated — there but then the times can treated as news because it came out on _ treated as news because it came out on the — treated as news because it came out on the radio. in a combination of the two works really— combination of the two works really well. they have some great — really well. they have some great presenters on there. news uk have launched _ great presenters on there. news uk have launched a _ great presenters on there. news uk have launched a tv _ great presenters on there. news uk have launched a tv station, i uk have launched a tv station, talk tv but how has talk radio performed?— talk tv but how has talk radio performed? talk radio was up based on _ performed? talk radio was up based on its _ performed? talk radio was up based on its figures _ based on its figures previously. it probably maybe didn't see the growth that they perhaps hoped for. in the interesting question about more right wing type media operations, we seen the others, all of those make it would be ceasing real disinterest in the past to god which of being a bit right wing.— bit right wing. they are off calm regulated _ bit right wing. they are off calm regulated and - bit right wing. they are off calm regulated and they . bit right wing. they are off. calm regulated and they said they are impartial. i'm glad that there are radio stations catering to different audiences in all aspects. but also may be does show that people do want something that isn't so fixed in its view and also what it shows that it's it's hard to establish a new brand and there's a lot of competition and from others and to cut through and are incredibly passionate about the radio stations they listen to and they can be a challenge for any new entrant and i'm sure that there be looking at the numbers and thinking which they do next. will be interesting is with talk tv, a decent child of talk radio ? chunk of talk radio. they'll be able to visualise their radio at the moment better anyway and it looks good, it looks kind of tv like an moon they'll find an audience in that way. a lot of radio growth has come from multi—platform success and visualising and spin—off services and investing in web content and social media. rather than just what comes out of the speaker, what comes through the screens becomes more and more important. ashley, i gathered from the new york times, there having their own audio offering. it york times, there having their own audio offering.— own audio offering. it was 'ust recently announced i own audio offering. it was 'ust recently announced that i own audio offering. it wasjust recently announced that the l own audio offering. it wasjust i recently announced that the new york times — recently announced that the new york times is _ recently announced that the new york times is working _ recently announced that the new york times is working on - recently announced that the new york times is working on an i york times is working on an audio — york times is working on an audio only— york times is working on an audio only app _ york times is working on an audio only app in _ york times is working on an audio only app in some i york times is working on an audio only app in some kindj york times is working on an i audio only app in some kind of like the — audio only app in some kind of like the room _ audio only app in some kind of like the room podcasts - audio only app in some kind of like the room podcasts playerl like the room podcasts player where — like the room podcasts player where presumably _ like the room podcasts player where presumably they're i like the room podcasts player. where presumably they're going to distribute _ where presumably they're going to distribute their— where presumably they're going to distribute their shows - where presumably they're going to distribute their shows and i to distribute their shows and may— to distribute their shows and may be — to distribute their shows and may be expended _ to distribute their shows and may be expended with - to distribute their shows and i may be expended with exclusives and may— may be expended with exclusives and may be, _ may be expended with exclusives and may be, really— may be expended with exclusives and may be, really trying - may be expended with exclusives and may be, really trying to - and may be, really trying to bring — and may be, really trying to bring people _ and may be, really trying to bring people into _ and may be, really trying to bring people into their- bring people into their ecosystem _ bring people into their ecosystem rather- bring people into theirj ecosystem rather than bring people into their- ecosystem rather than control over _ ecosystem rather than control over to — ecosystem rather than control over to spot _ ecosystem rather than control over to spot phi, _ ecosystem rather than control over to spot phi, apple - ecosystem rather than control over to spot phi, apple nor. ecosystem rather than controll over to spot phi, apple nor the other— over to spot phi, apple nor the other players _ over to spot phi, apple nor the other players. if— over to spot phi, apple nor the other players-— other players. if we 'ust go back to you t other players. if we 'ust go back to you and i other players. if we 'ust go back to you and the i other players. if we just go back to you and the people who radio do seem to be losing based on the radar data are younger listeners. where the switching off in such huge numbers?— switching off in such huge numbers? , ' ., numbers? historically, 15 to 24, the younger _ numbers? historically, 15 to i 24, the younger demographic, they reduce listening to radio so how many people listen to it. but it's about 10% of the five years which actually does better than facebook which is 17% of the young audiences over the past two or three years. i think it's easy to jump to conclusions but when you really dive into the data apps, to reach a strong but it has dropped but the key for the sector is the amount of radio listening that is dropped significantly from the audiences. it struck 40%. so, teenagers are radios future listeners and so if the industry wants to regain them, they probably need to think more about how they reach them already but also creating services and what we see is capital radio and the youth and of the market. 15 and 34—year—olds live quite a different lifestyle and i think radio somewhat ignores teenagers and reflecting their world and the same time, this quite a lot of interesting media for that group and tiktok is popularfor that audience and their spending 14 to 15 minutes a day on tiktok because it speaks to them. it's people like them performing or creating content that they want to consume. so, the challenge for all the challenge for all new beer is to work out what that audience wants and how do they create content that they like and they have a god—given right to every demographic to consume itjust because i've been historically and now it's got to work hard to re—engage with those audiences. got to work hard to re-engage with those audiences.- got to work hard to re-engage with those audiences. these are big questions — with those audiences. these are big questions so _ with those audiences. these are big questions so keep _ with those audiences. these are big questions so keep you i with those audiences. these are big questions so keep you up i with those audiences. these are big questions so keep you up if. big questions so keep you up if you're running the radio stations. jack radio, is this something that you worry about? yes, i think the interesting thing — yes, i think the interesting thing that they were saying there — thing that they were saying there in— thing that they were saying there in the question that goes through— there in the question that goes through my mind is cause and effect, — through my mind is cause and effect, which could be going on there _ effect, which could be going on there as — effect, which could be going on there as well. undoubtedly, teenagers in the usage of radio has been — teenagers in the usage of radio has been depressed, but equally, a lot of programming that is— equally, a lot of programming that is in— equally, a lot of programming that is in towards teenagers is very— that is in towards teenagers is very short _ that is in towards teenagers is very short attention span and stuff— very short attention span and stuff and _ very short attention span and stuff and instant gratification and yet — stuff and instant gratification and yet we know is that demographic of our podcasts and podcasting more listening, more attention— podcasting more listening, more attention span. not taking over here _ attention span. not taking over here but— attention span. not taking over here but let's interview you. ifyou — here but let's interview you. if you build it, they will come _ if you build it, they will come. ., ., ., come. you need to have something _ come. you need to have something for _ come. you need to have something for them i come. you need to have i something for them which come. you need to have - something for them which they necessarily will do in the radio sector. and they been very lucky and spending lots of money putting friends and spent on computer consume them because you have the radio dial that stumbled across in their cars and so the radio sector. capital, capitalspends cars and so the radio sector. capital, capital spends a lot of money on it. we have a clip that i would like to play. leaving work? standup, pad your pockets, grab your keys and say right stop that way, everyone knows your intentions to leave the office. follow these rules you are under way to a distinctly british way of life. this is unionjack. distinctly british way of life. this is union jack.— distinctly british way of life. this is union jack. here more home-grown _ this is union jack. here more home-grown comedy - this is union jack. here more home-grown comedy at i this is union jack. here more | home-grown comedy at union home—grown comedy at union jack _ home-grown comedy at union jack. w home-grown comedy at union jack. i, i, , i, , home-grown comedy at union jack. i, i, _ , home-grown comedy at union jack. i, i, _ h, jack. that was a tiny clip of union jack _ jack. that was a tiny clip of union jack radio _ jack. that was a tiny clip of union jack radio and - jack. that was a tiny clip of union jack radio and i'm i unionjack radio and i'm talking about capturing the teenage market. with jack, you don't have djs for much of the day and is just music. don't have djs for much of the day and isjust music. but don't have djs for much of the day and is just music. but if i wanted music, iwould just day and is just music. but if i wanted music, i would just find myself in a streaming platform, could make was met by regular jack radio? you could say the same for many radio stations from time immemorial, you could say wanting some music and displaying it yourself. what we do with union _ displaying it yourself. what we do with union jack, _ displaying it yourself. what we do with union jack, union - displaying it yourself. what we do with union jack, union jack| do with unionjack, unionjack danson— do with unionjack, unionjack danson unionjack rock, danson union jack rock, specific— danson unionjack rock, specific genres, we focus on the best_ specific genres, we focus on the best of british music, union _ the best of british music, unionjack is both pop and also rock, _ unionjack is both pop and also rock, but— unionjack is both pop and also rock, but solely british artists _ rock, but solely british artists and important part of what — artists and important part of what we _ artists and important part of what we do is also the comedy. so, what we do is also the comedy. 50. there — what we do is also the comedy. so, there was an attempt that comedy— so, there was an attempt that comedy that you just heard there _ comedy that you just heard there. we have writers that will — there. we have writers that will write _ there. we have writers that will write our miners and topical— will write our miners and topical miners every day and we have _ topical miners every day and we have communities that will work with those who have podcasts in the news — with those who have podcasts in the news is up for a comedy award _ the news is up for a comedy award. and we work with numerous comedy clubs around the country, we were run union jack— the country, we were run union jack comedy club in order to promote _ jack comedy club in order to promote stand—up comedyjust as everything — promote stand—up comedyjust as everything in the back of the pandemic. the reason for that isjack— pandemic. the reason for that isjack is — pandemic. the reason for that isjack is always pandemic. the reason for that is jack is always been this type — is jack is always been this type of— is jack is always been this type of brand. the genesis of the jack— type of brand. the genesis of the jack brandon north america was in _ the jack brandon north america was in a — the jack brandon north america was in a world where there is very— was in a world where there is very formulaic, formatted radio, _ very formulaic, formatted radio, the way to stand out against _ radio, the way to stand out against that is to do something different— against that is to do something different and that is what jack is all— different and that is what jack is all about. | different and that is what jack is all about.— is all about. i 'ust want to brin: is all about. i 'ust want to bring ashley _ is all about. i just want to bring ashley in _ is all about. i just want to bring ashley in the - is all about. i just want to bring ashley in the reportj is all about. i just want to - bring ashley in the report here because the irony is that the streaming platforms have been incredibly disruptive in one sense of traditional radio but sparta phi for example is now pushing enter speech content. there pushing this type of content _ there pushing this type of content but _ there pushing this type of content but they- there pushing this type of content but they also - there pushing this type of - content but they also required an app— content but they also required an app to _ content but they also required an app to an— content but they also required an app to an app— content but they also required an app to an app called - content but they also required an app to an app called cream j an app to an app called cream room — an app to an app called cream room 7 — an app to an app called cream room ? acquired. _ an app to an app called cream room ? acquired. and- an app to an app called cream room ? acquired. and they. an app to an app called cream | room ? acquired. and they are now— room ? acquired. and they are now launching _ room ? acquired. and they are now launching a _ room ? acquired. and they are now launching a product - room ? acquired. and they are now launching a product card i now launching a product card card — now launching a product card card thing _ now launching a product card card thing to _ now launching a product card card thing to try— now launching a product card card thing to try to _ now launching a product card card thing to try to go - now launching a product card card thing to try to go in - now launching a product card card thing to try to go in the i card thing to try to go in the card thing to try to go in the carand— card thing to try to go in the car and give _ card thing to try to go in the car and give spotify- card thing to try to go in the car and give spotify back- car and give spotify back ownership _ car and give spotify back ownership of— car and give spotify back ownership of the - car and give spotify back ownership of the car- car and give spotify back ownership of the car to i car and give spotify back. ownership of the car to take car and give spotify back- ownership of the car to take it away— ownership of the car to take it away from _ ownership of the car to take it away from radio _ ownership of the car to take it away from radio time. - ownership of the car to take it away from radio time. and - ownership of the car to take it. away from radio time. and now the big — away from radio time. and now the big tech— away from radio time. and now the big tech companies- away from radio time. and now the big tech companies are - the big tech companies are pushing _ the big tech companies are pushing into _ the big tech companies are pushing into audio, - the big tech companies are pushing into audio, but - the big tech companies are - pushing into audio, but they're also _ pushing into audio, but they're also specifically— pushing into audio, but they're also specifically focusing - also specifically focusing another _ also specifically focusing another can _ also specifically focusing another can take - also specifically focusing another can take over. also specifically focusing i another can take over some also specifically focusing - another can take over some of the time — another can take over some of the time of— another can take over some of the time of radio. _ another can take over some of the time of radio.— the time of radio. why do soti the time of radio. why do spotify want _ the time of radio. why do spotify want to _ the time of radio. why do spotify want to be - the time of radio. why do spotify want to be in - the time of radio. why do - spotify want to be in podcasts? spotify want to be in podcasts? spotify must begin to podcasts because — spotify must begin to podcasts because every— spotify must begin to podcasts because every time _ spotify must begin to podcasts because every time you - spotify must begin to podcasts because every time you listenl because every time you listen to music— because every time you listen to music on _ because every time you listen to music on spotify, - because every time you listen to music on spotify, they- to music on spotify, they actually— to music on spotify, they actually have _ to music on spotify, they actually have to - to music on spotify, they actually have to pay - to music on spotify, they actually have to pay the i to music on spotify, they- actually have to pay the people but they— actually have to pay the people but they cannot _ actually have to pay the people but they cannot put _ actually have to pay the people but they cannot put ads - actually have to pay the people but they cannot put ads in - actually have to pay the people but they cannot put ads in it. . but they cannot put ads in it. so they're _ but they cannot put ads in it. so they're displaying - but they cannot put ads in it. so they're displaying you - but they cannot put ads in it. so they're displaying you to i so they're displaying you to listen — so they're displaying you to listen to _ so they're displaying you to listen to music. _ so they're displaying you to listen to music. if - so they're displaying you to listen to music. if you - so they're displaying you to listen to music. if you pay. so they're displaying you to i listen to music. if you pay for spotify— listen to music. if you pay for spotify and _ listen to music. if you pay for spotify and listen _ listen to music. if you pay for spotify and listen to - listen to music. if you pay for spotify and listen to a - spotify and listen to a podcast, _ spotify and listen to a podcast, they- spotify and listen to a podcast, they are - spotify and listen to a - podcast, they are actually double _ podcast, they are actually double dipping _ podcast, they are actually double dipping on - podcast, they are actually i double dipping on revenues podcast, they are actually - double dipping on revenues so they're — double dipping on revenues so they're taking _ double dipping on revenues so they're taking money - double dipping on revenues so they're taking money off- double dipping on revenues so they're taking money off of. they're taking money off of you. — they're taking money off of you. but _ they're taking money off of you. but they— they're taking money off of you, but they also - they're taking money off of you, but they also put - they're taking money off of you, but they also put ads i they're taking money off of- you, but they also put ads and, if you're — you, but they also put ads and, if you're listening _ you, but they also put ads and, if you're listening to _ you, but they also put ads and, if you're listening to the - if you're listening to the eight _ if you're listening to the eight spotify _ if you're listening to the eight spotify show, - if you're listening to the . eight spotify show, you're making _ eight spotify show, you're making money— eight spotify show, you're making money off - eight spotify show, you're making money off or- eight spotify show, you're making money off or that| eight spotify show, you're - making money off or that and also _ making money off or that and also paying _ making money off or that and also paying them _ making money off or that and also paying them as - making money off or that and also paying them as a - also paying them as a subscriber. _ also paying them as a subscriber. but - also paying them as a subscriber. but it- also paying them as a subscriber. but it is. subscriber. but it is definitely _ subscriber. but it is definitely an - subscriber. but it is- definitely an investment subscriber. but it is— definitely an investment point. tatking — definitely an investment point. tatking a — definitely an investment point. tatking a hit— definitely an investment point. talking a bit about _ definitely an investment point. talking a bit about podcasts, l talking a bit about podcasts, they've been this incredibly inegalitarian format. cheap, easy to use, not a big marketing operation costs and anyone can make a hit podcasts. but the problem is getting them heard. how can someone in the bedroom compute the huge marketing budget of big companies that can promote the content all over the place? over the last two or three years, it is really changed. we have just seen people talk about sparta phi and apple in all these players, google with all these players, google with a really want to do is just to cover your ears. spotify, obviously it does in terms of money but it doesn't matter if you're listening to music or a podcast that is just taken of your earphones. if it is the person who thinks i've had a great idea for a podcast, the main thing that is really difficult is getting the podcast heard because there still is and fight not yet, although these big companies are really pushing, there is a real natural platform for everyone to go to. if you want to listen to the radio, if ever radio, you can always flip the dial orjust it's the same thing. it's still, the platforming of the smaller podcasts is still really, really difficult formula. especially of big players like literally president obama and bruce springsteen coming in. to me, it's very hard for smaller podcasts to be heard and i think it's part of myjob to elevate some of these tiny podcasts because for so long, there are so many great smaller podcasts that were made and they still exist but not everyone will get to find out about them and that's myjob really. about them and that's my 'ob reall . ., ., i. about them and that's my 'ob reall . ., ., , ., really. how do you find them? m dm really. how do you find them? my dm zero — really. how do you find them? my dm zero been _ really. how do you find them? my dm zero been on _ really. how do you find them? my dm zero been on twitter. i really. how do you find them? i my dm zero been on twitter. i'm quite approachable. i listen to people who have good tastes and i scour around and sometimes i just asked people on twitter, i'm bored of my own tastes, what do you like? social media is important in this weight i don't have to let us know who comes by your way after this. but thank you comes by your way after this. but thank yo— but thank you that's all we've not time but thank you that's all we've got time for _ but thank you that's all we've got time for and _ but thank you that's all we've got time for and senior- got time for and senior reporter at the bird. chief content officerjack media and miranda sawyer, radio critic at the observer. the media show will be back same time next week. but for now, thank you for watching and goodbye. the weekend is going to a mild but mostly cloudy start but some of us through saturday will producing outbreaks of rain, heavy rain across the hills of us in scotland that ran pushing southwards across scotland, northern ireland getting the hills of us in scotland that ran pushing southwards across scotland, northern ireland getting the parts of northwest england and northwest wells the afternoon. and if it made me drape it rather cloudy and behind our rain brand, it will see some showers and it will be increasingly windy. highs 11 to 14 increasingly windy. highs 11 to iii degrees, so we'll feel mild. saturday evening will bring this patchy rain across seven areas and clear spells and showers elsewhere entails developing in northern scotland. gusts of wind from 70 mph or more, it will be mild as we head into the first part of sunday morning. the leases would go to the day on sunday, does a better chance of losing some spots of sunshine developing. still some showers in northern scotland were will remain fairly windy but a lot of cloud at times down towards the south but type temperature still mild and heights of ten to 13 degrees. this is bbc news. i'm rich preston. our top stories: climate activist greta thunberg leads thousands of young protestors through the streets of glasgow, demanding world leaders take stronger action at the cop26 climate summit. we at the cop26 climate summit. are tired of their bla blah. we are tired of their blah blah blah. our leaders are not leading. this is what leadership looks like. marilia mendonca, one of brazil's most popular singers, dies in a plane crash at the age of 26. prosecutors in georgia allege that ahmaud arbery, an unarmed black man killed last year, came "under attack" from three white men who are on trial charged with his murder. and here in the uk, resignations at yorkshire county cricket over the racism row which has engulfed the club.