by his case reflect more widespread concern amongst mps about whether the current anti—sleaze system gives them a fair hearing. i think the reason it has come now is because of the volume of complaints that have come through and the more widespread feeling of unfairness across all benches that have been brought to my attention and the attention of others. in very simplistic, cliched terms, this is the famous straw that has broken the much—suffering, long—suffering camel's back. public trust in politicians remains low, and critics say that to be seen to be writing their own rule book won't do anything to restore it, but the government would argue that changes are long overdue. do remember, as you are following the programme, if you've got questions or comments on the stories you cover, you're very welcome to follow me on twitter and you can send those my way. you can also get plenty of background on the stories we cover through the bbc news website as well. you're watching bbc news. applause welcome to the booker prize award ceremony, being broadcast live on radio, iplayerand ceremony, being broadcast live on radio, iplayer and the bbc news channel, we are come to life from the radio theatre in broadcasting housein the radio theatre in broadcasting house in london with a socially distanced covid safe audience, but no less excitement in the room and we are delighted to have all six shortlisted writers here and some special guests. the nominated books range from a meditation on time and wore interlock up to a contested inheritance in south africa, and exploration of what happens to our minds and we go online and a miscarriage ofjustice in wales. it troubled child finds solace in the night sky and we have a female aviator flying over the antarctic, graduations personal to all the nominees. anuk arudpragasam, damon galgut, patricia lockwood, nadifa mohamed, richard powers and maggie shipstead. applause each of the shortlisted winners, whether they win or not, will be presented with a specially bound individually handcrafted addition of their work and each of those beautiful bound books takes around 150 hours to create. the judge beautiful bound books takes around 150 hours to create. thejudge is choosing a long list of a short list and a winner this year were director and a winner this year were director and editor horatia harrod, actor natascha mcelhone, chigozie 0bioma and rowan williams. picking the winner really been a really tough assignment, and to find out more, please welcome the chair of those judges, defence or maya jasanoff, historian of the british empire at harvard university. —— professor maya jasanoff. applause. hi. you've obviously read all the long list and you knew about what qualities drew the short list to get a full tub what qualities do you think the short list novels share? first of all, they are all terrific, but beyond that, i would say that they all share a sense of innovation and interest and excitement about language and what can be done with stories, they are all very immersive, albeit in very distinctive ways, and we were struck that many of them, indeed all of them, one way or another, meditate on the way our present moment relates to those that preceded us and those that may be yet to come. i was thinking, you are a historian yourself, and even in those one line summaries i gave, these novels, reflections on the times we are in by looking at the past? i reflections on the times we are in by looking at the past?— by looking at the past? i think we are all living _ by looking at the past? i think we are all living in _ by looking at the past? i think we are all living in a _ by looking at the past? i think we are all living in a time _ by looking at the past? i think we are all living in a time right - are all living in a time right now we are quite aware that things are different, things are in part different, things are in part different from what they looked like in the past, and we are in some ways trying to deal with the legacies of the past, which many of the authors here tonight are looking at, we are also aware that things may change even more in future and that is something else that is done at the authors here tonight are deeply engaged in. i authors here tonight are deeply engaged im— authors here tonight are deeply engaged in— engaged in. i think it is fair to sa , engaged in. i think it is fair to say. anybody _ engaged in. i think it is fair to say, anybody following - engaged in. i think it is fair to say, anybody following the i engaged in. i think it is fair to - say, anybody following the booker prize over the years, in terms of the reporting of it, there is thought be injudging the booker prize in experimental for an readability full of these books have been a joy to read, and i wonder where the balance lies injudging the price. i where the balance lies in 'udging the rice. ., where the balance lies in 'udging the rice. ~ ., ~ the price. i think we can thank these authors _ the price. i think we can thank these authors for _ the price. i think we can thank these authors for being - the price. i think we can thank - these authors for being innovative and captivating, i think that one of the things that we respond to as judges are books that we feel are pushing the form in new directions and giving all readers something new to engage with. mad; and giving all readers something new to engage with-— to engage with. may be an unfair auestion to engage with. may be an unfair question - _ to engage with. may be an unfair question - what _ to engage with. may be an unfair question - what surprised - to engage with. may be an unfair question - what surprised you i to engage with. may be an unfair. question - what surprised you about question — what surprised you about this year's reading, even the long list? 0ne this year's reading, even the long list? one of the things i want to say about that, actually has to do with my fellow judges, say about that, actually has to do with my fellowjudges, really wonderful partners in this process. most of us don't have the experience of reading so intensively and with such fellow engaged committed readers who have their own distinctive tastes. and so it was really incredible cannotjust be exposed to wonderful books myself, to see what landed with other readers, and then to be able to revisit books with their opinions in mind myself. revisit books with their opinions in mind myself-— revisit books with their opinions in mind m self. ., . . ~' mind myself. fantastic, thank you so much, and mind myself. fantastic, thank you so much. and maya _ mind myself. fantastic, thank you so much, and maya jasanoff _ mind myself. fantastic, thank you so much, and maya jasanoff will - mind myself. fantastic, thank you so much, and maya jasanoff will be - much, and maya jasanoff will be talking again with her latest —— later in the show. and you are going to be announcing the winner. so thank you. applause throughout this evening, we will be hearing from the shortlisted authors in their own words, followed by specially recorded readings directed by graduates of the bbc�*s new creative scheme, and they made beautiful films, creative scheme, and they made beautifulfilms, and creative scheme, and they made beautiful films, and we are going to hear two of those now, starting with anuk arudpragasam. abs, hear two of those now, starting with anuk arudpragasam.— hear two of those now, starting with anuk arudpragasam. a passage north is set after the — anuk arudpragasam. a passage north is set after the sri _ anuk arudpragasam. a passage north is set after the sri lanka _ anuk arudpragasam. a passage north is set after the sri lanka civil- is set after the sri lanka civil war. it is not a story, it is the account of a man who lives in colombo who is faced with guilt because he was unaffected by the board that affected so many members of his community, and really the story isjust this of his community, and really the story is just this young man, krishan, taking a train to the northeast where he attends the funeral of a woman who is a one point his grandmother's carer. she is a woman who grew up in the northeast, who spent her life there in the midst of war and who lost both her sons during the last few months. in a way, it is a kind of restless pros, because it does not rest, but it is also prose that is meant for in a weight restlessness, is meant to slow down the mind or the lungs that move too fast. the evenin: the lungs that move too fast. the evening was _ the lungs that move too fast. the evening was gathering over the landscape. he is standing there at the entrance of the cremation ground — the entrance of the cremation ground. all of it like now with the wood _ ground. all of it like now with the wood from — ground. all of it like now with the wood from the casket and most likely the body— wood from the casket and most likely the body and cited too, all of it burning — the body and cited too, all of it burning bright in the lightless great — burning bright in the lightless great night of the evening. —— the body— great night of the evening. —— the body inside — great night of the evening. —— the body inside too. it would take several — body inside too. it would take several more hours for the burning to be _ several more hours for the burning to be complete. the human body can take a _ to be complete. the human body can take a lot _ to be complete. the human body can take a lot of — to be complete. the human body can take a lot of material, not just flesh — take a lot of material, not just flesh and _ take a lot of material, not just flesh and bone and organs but feelings— flesh and bone and organs but feelings and versions, memories and expectations, prophecies and dreams. all of which_ expectations, prophecies and dreams. all of which will take time to burn. to be _ all of which will take time to burn. to be reduced to the soothing university of asheville. —— uniformity of action. university of asheville. -- uniformity of action. reading from anuk arudpragasam's _ uniformity of action. reading from anuk arudpragasam's a _ uniformity of action. reading from anuk arudpragasam's a passage l uniformity of action. reading from - anuk arudpragasam's a passage north, now to damon galgut, and the promise. i now to damon galgut, and the promise. . . ., now to damon galgut, and the promise. . .,~ ., ,, promise. i have taken the approach of tellinu promise. i have taken the approach of telling this _ promise. i have taken the approach of telling this family _ promise. i have taken the approach of telling this family history - promise. i have taken the approach of telling this family history to - of telling this family history to the advice of four family funerals —— three device. each of those funerals happening in a different decade, with a different president in power, and i am trying to show the passing of time and what it does to the family, but it does to the country, what it does to the politics of the country and what it does to notions ofjustice, i guess. the real subject of the book underneath the politics and all the family stuff is time and how time is passing, so if you want to take a message, it would be mortality is what underpins all of our lives. we are all getting older and every thing changes at times —— as time moves on. that is the medium i was working in time. find moves on. that is the medium i was working in time.— working in time. and still, you don't understand. _ working in time. and still, you don't understand. it _ working in time. and still, you don't understand. it is - working in time. and still, you don't understand. it is not - working in time. and still, you i don't understand. it is not yours working in time. and still, you - don't understand. it is not yours to give _ don't understand. it is not yours to give it_ don't understand. it is not yours to give. it already belongs to us. this house. _ give. it already belongs to us. this house. but— give. it already belongs to us. this house, but also the house where you live, and _ house, but also the house where you live, and he — house, but also the house where you live, and he landed the standing on, ours will_ live, and he landed the standing on, ours will not — live, and he landed the standing on, ours will not yours to give out as a favour _ ours will not yours to give out as a favour when — ours will not yours to give out as a favour when you are finished with it. favour when you are finished with it every— favour when you are finished with it. every thing you have, white lady, _ it. every thing you have, white lady, it— it. every thing you have, white lady, it is— it. every thing you have, white lady, it is already mine. i don't have _ lady, it is already mine. i don't have to — lady, it is already mine. i don't have to ask _ lady, it is already mine. i don't have to ask. white lady? she looks at him _ have to ask. white lady? she looks at him while he quivers. i have a namef _ at him while he quivers. i have a name. lucas _ at him while he quivers. i have a name, lucas. thunder in the distance. _ name, lucas. thunder in the distance, like a crowd shouting in a foreign _ distance, like a crowd shouting in a foreign language was to you makes a gesture _ foreign language was to you makes a gesture with his hand —— in a foreign—language for throwing her name _ foreign—language for throwing her name away. what's happened to you? i woke up. applause david johnson reading from damon galgut�*s the promise. her royal highness the duchess of cornwall has been a public supporter of the booker prize since 2013, and has presented the award many times. in 2019, she invited thejoint winners, margaret atwood and bernadine, for tea, and has been the turn of the latest winner to join her by the fireside, and his visit was particularly special because the front row audience has been invited and you listening to their conversation, recorded before did —— tonight's show... and about his book, about growing up in poverty in glasgow. flan book, about growing up in poverty in glasuow. . book, about growing up in poverty in glasow. ., book, about growing up in poverty in glasow. . , . book, about growing up in poverty in glasuow. . ., glasgow. can i say what a pleasure it is to welcome _ glasgow. can i say what a pleasure it is to welcome you? _ glasgow. can i say what a pleasure it is to welcome you? even - glasgow. can i say what a pleasure it is to welcome you? even if- glasgow. can i say what a pleasure it is to welcome you? even if you l it is to welcome you? even if you are very young, what books you read to start off with. it is are very young, what books you read to start off with.— to start off with. it is give me a lifelon: to start off with. it is give me a lifelong passion, _ to start off with. it is give me a lifelong passion, but _ to start off with. it is give me a lifelong passion, but it- to start off with. it is give me a lifelong passion, but it was the | lifelong passion, but it was the works— lifelong passion, but it was the works of— lifelong passion, but it was the works of thomas hardy, it was tess of the _ works of thomas hardy, it was tess of the drug — —— of the durbervilles. it is an inspiration for my book. agnes is still really — inspiration for my book. agnes is still really effected with the memory of her life. i cannot tell you how— memory of her life. i cannot tell you how important the library was in my childhood and it was always just a very— my childhood and it was always just a very safe — my childhood and it was always just a very safe space, a tranquil space, and it— a very safe space, a tranquil space, and it was— a very safe space, a tranquil space, and it was a — a very safe space, a tranquil space, and it was a place that you could go and it was a place that you could go and shut— and it was a place that you could go and shut out— and it was a place that you could go and shut out the world. is and it was a place that you could go and shut out the world.— and shut out the world. is a piece of art, a library. _ and shut out the world. is a piece of art, a library. you _ and shut out the world. is a piece of art, a library. you can - and shut out the world. is a piece of art, a library. you can go - and shut out the world. is a piece of art, a library. you can go in - of art, a library. you can go in there, everybody is quiet, you've got time to think. that is why, nowadays, it is so important to keep labourers in schools. this nowadays, it is so important to keep labourers in schools.— labourers in schools. as you say, libraries are _ labourers in schools. as you say, libraries are crucial, _ labourers in schools. as you say, libraries are crucial, because - libraries are crucial, because children_ libraries are crucial, because children need peace in their environment, to focus on a book, but also peace _ environment, to focus on a book, but also peace within themselves and libraries— also peace within themselves and libraries are one of the few places that allow— libraries are one of the few places that allow them to have those moments of respite orjust to shut out the _ moments of respite orjust to shut out the world and enjoy a book. it out the world and enjoy a book. actually out the world and enjoy a book. it actually gave you the inspiration to sit down and write your book? iuntimely actually gave you the inspiration to sit down and write your book? when i wrote the book, _ sit down and write your book? when i wrote the book, i _ sit down and write your book? when i wrote the book, i did _ sit down and write your book? when i wrote the book, i did not _ sit down and write your book? when i wrote the book, i did not tell - wrote the book, i did not tell anyone — wrote the book, i did not tell anyone i_ wrote the book, i did not tell anyone i was going to write it, because — anyone i was going to write it, because i_ anyone i was going to write it, because i wanted to be a personal project. _ because i wanted to be a personal project, and i was thinking about the glasgow i grew up in, about my own mother, my own family, sol wanted _ own mother, my own family, sol wanted to— own mother, my own family, sol wanted to memorialise them, very clearly, _ wanted to memorialise them, very clearly, warts and all, but also the strength _ clearly, warts and all, but also the strength and the dignity of the characters as well as the struggles of often _ characters as well as the struggles of often times, mothers stories and young _ of often times, mothers stories and young queer men in very mescaline places— young queer men in very mescaline places are — young queer men in very mescaline places are often invisible, and so it became — places are often invisible, and so it became a — places are often invisible, and so it became a very personal documents, to say, _ it became a very personal documents, to say, we _ it became a very personal documents, to say, we were always here, we are also on _ to say, we were always here, we are also on this— to say, we were always here, we are also on this landscape —— very masculine _ also on this landscape —— very masculine places. it also on this landscape -- very masculine places.— also on this landscape -- very masculine places. it must've been a cathartic moment _ masculine places. it must've been a cathartic moment when _ masculine places. it must've been a cathartic moment when the - masculine places. it must've been a l cathartic moment when the giving life tuitt? it forced me to have empathy for these characters, and to not empathy for these characters, and to no- ~' empathy for these characters, and to no. ~ ., empathy for these characters, and to no- ~' ., ., empathy for these characters, and to no. ~ ., ., .,, empathy for these characters, and to not think about what it was like for money spirits _ not think about what it was like for money spirits but _ not think about what it was like for money spirits but to _ not think about what it was like for money spirits but to why _ not think about what it was like for money spirits but to why mothersl money spirits but to why mothers feel that — money spirits but to why mothers feel that lack of hope or why the why ask— feel that lack of hope or why the why ask why they were, and that is the power— why ask why they were, and that is the power of writing fiction, if you do not _ the power of writing fiction, if you do not agree with what your characters do, you have to at least understand — characters do, you have to at least understand why they would do it. i never— understand why they would do it. i never knew whenever the book the journey _ never knew whenever the book the journey the book would take me on. it journey the book would take me on. it has _ journey the book would take me on. it has transformed my life. winning the booker, bk with yourself — i could _ the booker, bk with yourself — i could not— the booker, bk with yourself — i could not have imagined any of it. it could not have imagined any of it. it has _ could not have imagined any of it. it has been — could not have imagined any of it. it has been a pleasure having you here, and i think before we sign off here, and i think before we sign off here, i think you will agree, we wish all the booker nominees the very best of luck. we wish all the booker nominees the very best of luck.— wish all the booker nominees the i very best of luck.- applause her royal highness, the duchess of cornwall and douglas stuart, last year's winner. we will be hearing from him again later. now to look at two more of our shortlisted writers, starting with patricia lockwood. ida starting with patricia lockwood. no one starting with patricia lockwood. in? one is talking about this, one of those unusual books that doesn't have a story in the same way others do. the protagonist is trapped in the internet, it is the place she calls the total, because he didn't want to use the word internet a thousand times in my book. i wrote, i wrote on that part and then i began the second part, which is quite different. i talk about that being a rupture into reality where the protagonist is delivered into what she calls real life, into own body again and into interaction with a very special child, her niece. we might already be at the point where the internet is inside our bodies, when you are holding your phone, it feels like a part of you, doesn't feels like a part of you, doesn't feel like something you can put down. i don't know if it is useful to think about the future, the future is here and we are already living in it in terms of how the internet operates our lives. share living in it in terms of how the internet operates our lives. are you c in: , internet operates our lives. are you crying. her — internet operates our lives. are you crying, her husband _ internet operates our lives. are you crying, her husband asked, - internet operates our lives. are you crying, her husband asked, slinging his backpack into a chair. she stared — his backpack into a chair. she stared at— his backpack into a chair. she stared at him, of course she was crying. _ stared at him, of course she was crying. why— stared at him, of course she was crying, why wasn't he crying? hadn't he crying, why wasn't he crying? hadn't be seen _ crying, why wasn't he crying? hadn't be seen the — crying, why wasn't he crying? hadn't he seen the video of the dying b. the teacup— he seen the video of the dying b. the teacup rose to her lips, floated and went _ the teacup rose to her lips, floated and went away again. floating away again. _ and went away again. floating away again. the _ and went away again. floating away again, the cup was nowhere to be seen, _ again, the cup was nowhere to be seen. not — again, the cup was nowhere to be seen. not on _ again, the cup was nowhere to be seen, not on the side table, not on the floor— seen, not on the side table, not on the floor and — seen, not on the side table, not on the floor and not rolled between the unmade _ the floor and not rolled between the unmade bed sheet. it's watercolour garden _ unmade bed sheet. it's watercolour garden and — unmade bed sheet. it's watercolour garden and guilt have gone. she spent _ garden and guilt have gone. she spent half an hour increasingly spooked — spent half an hour increasingly spooked. forwhat spent half an hour increasingly spooked. for what was in her right hand _ spooked. for what was in her right hand was— spooked. for what was in her right hand was the feeling she had put it somewhere inside the phone. fiona button reading _ somewhere inside the phone. fiona button reading from _ somewhere inside the phone. fiona button reading from patricia - button reading from patricia lockwood's no one is talking about this. and now for the next extract. the fortune man is based on a real miscarriage ofjustice in cardiff. it is a fictionalised account to take on those real people as inspiration and it is a look at how people deal with grief and how they are undaunted in the face of power. the case file was opened at the national archive, so that was the base of my research, and i want to interview as many people as i could to bring to life what happened. i met with people in london, cardiff, somaliland, anyone and everyone who could tell me what happened. the chief thing that probably worked against him was institutional racism. i don't think that has changed as much as we would like in this country and then globally as well, various sorts of discrimination means the justice system across the world is imperfect and often quite brutal to the most marginalised people. he stumbles over a loose _ marginalised people. he stumbles over a loose cobblestones - marginalised people. he stumbles over a loose cobblestones and - over a loose cobblestones and corrects — over a loose cobblestones and corrects his balance self—consciously, looking left and right _ self—consciously, looking left and right he — self—consciously, looking left and right. he is paranoid he stepped in something — right. he is paranoid he stepped in something strange. flat—footed, his shoes— something strange. flat—footed, his shoes are _ something strange. flat—footed, his shoes are a — something strange. flat—footed, his shoes are a size too big to allow for the — shoes are a size too big to allow for the painful cones on his feet. you cannot— for the painful cones on his feet. you cannot show weakness, or your days are _ you cannot show weakness, or your days are numbered. he had learnt to do the _ days are numbered. he had learnt to do the black— days are numbered. he had learnt to do the black man's walk early on in cardiff. _ do the black man's walk early on in cardiff, walk with his shoulder high. — cardiff, walk with his shoulder high. his— cardiff, walk with his shoulder high, his elbows pointed out, his feet sliding slowly over the ground. his chin. _ feet sliding slowly over the ground. his chin, buried deep in his collar and his— his chin, buried deep in his collar and his hat. — his chin, buried deep in his collar and his hat, low over his face. to give _ and his hat, low over his face. to give nothing _ and his hat, low over his face. to give nothing away apart from his masculinity. a human silhouette in motion. _ masculinity. a human silhouette in motion. he — masculinity. a human silhouette in motion. . . masculinity. a human silhouette in motion. , . ., masculinity. a human silhouette in motion. . ., , motion. he has perfected not being seen. he knows _ motion. he has perfected not being seen. he knows people _ motion. he has perfected not being seen. he knows people call- motion. he has perfected not being seen. he knows people call him - motion. he has perfected not beingj seen. he knows people call him the ghost. _ seen. he knows people call him the ghost. and — seen. he knows people call him the ghost. and it— seen. he knows people call him the ghost. and it satisfies _ seen. he knows people call him the ghost. and it satisfies him. - ghost. and it satisfies him. applause _ ghost. and it satisfies him. applause. _ reading from the fortune man. we have met some of the nominees and we will speak to another winner, one of britain's most acclaimed novelist, who won the booker prize 30 years ago. he took the prize for the famished road, drawing on nigeria's folklore tradition. applause. first of all, i cannot believe it has been 30 years. i first of all, i cannot believe it has been 30 years.— first of all, i cannot believe it has been 30 years. i know, it seems to have gone — has been 30 years. i know, it seems to have gone past — has been 30 years. i know, it seems to have gone past in _ has been 30 years. i know, it seems to have gone past in a _ has been 30 years. i know, it seems to have gone past in a wonderful- to have gone past in a wonderful dream. .. ., ,, to have gone past in a wonderful dream. ,,, ., ,, ., ., , ., to have gone past in a wonderful dream. .~' ., . , . . dream. speaking of dreams he made a wonderful comment _ dream. speaking of dreams he made a wonderful comment about _ dream. speaking of dreams he made a wonderful comment about the - dream. speaking of dreams he made a wonderful comment about the book i dream. speaking of dreams he made a l wonderful comment about the book and you said it was fed by the dreams of literature. how do you look back on winning the booker prize? i look back at it with _ winning the booker prize? i look back at it with great _ winning the booker prize? i look back at it with great fondness. l winning the booker prize? i look back at it with great fondness. i | back at it with great fondness. i remember the years before, the length of time, the struggle in the effort to find a new voice to tell a new kind of story. and then you write this book and you wonder if anyone is going to read it or they will take you to the madhouse because you have done something strange and hugh have used a strange form. then this happens and it changes your life. the form. then this happens and it changes your life. form. then this happens and it chances our life. . , changes your life. the famished road was a trilogy — changes your life. the famished road was a trilogy of _ changes your life. the famished road was a trilogy of novels. _ changes your life. the famished road was a trilogy of novels. i _ changes your life. the famished road was a trilogy of novels. i wonder- was a trilogy of novels. i wonder how we would look back on the legacy of those novels, of the trilogy? it is an immodest question for me to answer. ., ., �* ., ., , ., , answer. you don't have to be modest, ou have answer. you don't have to be modest, you have won — answer. you don't have to be modest, you have won the _ answer. you don't have to be modest, you have won the booker— answer. you don't have to be modest, you have won the booker prize. - answer. you don't have to be modest, you have won the booker prize. i - you have won the booker prize. i would say it continually inspires, i keep meeting people for whom the books, the nature of the innovation and the way i constantly wrestle with reality and how you express reality and the novel form itself, as was said earlier, it is the constant stretching of the form, which is one of the great responsibility of the artists of our time, is something ifeel passionately about and is embellished in those works. i wonder how ou embellished in those works. i wonder how you think— embellished in those works. i wonder how you think the _ embellished in those works. i wonder how you think the prize _ embellished in those works. i wonder how you think the prize and _ embellished in those works. i wonder how you think the prize and the - how you think the prize and the books that are shortlisted have changed over the 30 years since you have won it?— have won it? they have changed a treat have won it? they have changed a great deal. _ have won it? they have changed a great deal, more _ have won it? they have changed a great deal, more inclusive, - have won it? they have changed a great deal, more inclusive, the i great deal, more inclusive, the prize is more open to a richness of experimentation, voices across the world, more people of colour, more women, open to gender possibilities, open to sexuality. it has become richer, bolderand open to sexuality. it has become richer, bolder and the questions around it are more intense. each year he feel, as you can see with this year's shortlist, ask deep questions about the human condition, about the current state of the human spirit. ile about the current state of the human sirit. ., ., , ., ,, ., spirit. he mentioned readers talk to ou about spirit. he mentioned readers talk to you about the _ spirit. he mentioned readers talk to you about the impact _ spirit. he mentioned readers talk to you about the impact books - spirit. he mentioned readers talk to you about the impact books have i spirit. he mentioned readers talk to i you about the impact books have made on them and you wonder how far readers have changed over the past 30 years? readers have changed over the past 30 ears? ~ , . ., 30 years? when writers change the nature of their _ 30 years? when writers change the nature of their art, _ 30 years? when writers change the nature of their art, readers - 30 years? when writers change the | nature of their art, readers change, too. the changes come about with this society, open voices, especially young, black readers across the world, america, africa, readers in india who are passionate about the novel, passionate about the prize itself and passionate about the need to be included in the great dialogue that is taking place in our times. great dialogue that is taking place in our times-— in our times. journalists, of which i am in our times. journalists, of which i am one. — in our times. journalists, of which i am one. are _ in our times. journalists, of which i am one, are always— in our times. journalists, of which i am one, are always looking i in our times. journalists, of which i am one, are always looking to i in our times. journalists, of which i i am one, are always looking to that label, the booker prize and how it captures the zeitgeist of what is going on in the world each year. and as a writer, i wonder how you feel about that? i as a writer, i wonder how you feel about that?— about that? i keep remembering somethin: about that? i keep remembering something that _ about that? i keep remembering something that haunts _ about that? i keep remembering something that haunts me, i about that? i keep remembering something that haunts me, you | about that? i keep remembering i something that haunts me, you take your fist, something that haunts me, you take yourfist, you something that haunts me, you take your fist, you thrust it into life and what you pull out, that is your material. i think every writer worth their salt or their gold, that is what they are doing. there is no other way to really right, given the nature of the times we find ourselves, we are in age of great contention and an age of environmental disasters, many big issues are pressing upon us and the writer has to be bolder and dig deeper. writer has to be bolder and dig dee er. ., writer has to be bolder and dig deeer. ., . ., ~ writer has to be bolder and dig deeer. ., . . ~' , . deeper. you have taken themes that are recognisable _ deeper. you have taken themes that are recognisable from _ deeper. you have taken themes that are recognisable from the _ deeper. you have taken themes that are recognisable from the famished| are recognisable from the famished road to your new children's book. i'm fascinated as to what made you take them to a children's book? i am fascinated by — take them to a children's book? i am fascinated by the _ take them to a children's book? i —n fascinated by the question of deforestation, environmental catastrophe and childhood. i am deeply interested in childhood. i am more interested in eternal childhood in us. i wanted to write for the eternal child, that is why my new book, every leaf 0r hallelujah is about deforestation and about courage. it is the young people that of the great conscience of our age, to our shame, the adults. they are bringing about the change and asking awkward questions. that is why i was inspired to write the story to draw upon the deep, african voice and speak to the world in any way. band speak to the world in any way. and as the climate _ speak to the world in any way. and as the climate change conference is taking place in glasgow, it is so appropriate. thank you very much. pleasure. applause. time to meet our final two shortlisted writers, starting this time with richard powers. bewilderment is about 39—year—old single father named theo, he was attempting to raise his nine unusual son, robin. theo has received conflicting diagnoses about what might be wrong with his boy and he doesn't know the way forward. rather than treat the boy with medications before the diagnosis is certain, he enrolled the boy in an experimental therapy to attempt to train to gain greater self—control and greater empathy. i did read a good amount about astrobiology, but i was pleased to find a way to use it as a bridge between father and son. 0ne bridge between father and son. one of the few things that calms robin down is his father taking him on a trip through the galaxy, stopping at various planets on the way and exploring how life might emerge in these various locals. iie exploring how life might emerge in these various locals.— these various locals. he spent two da s these various locals. he spent two days worrying _ these various locals. he spent two days worrying over _ these various locals. he spent two days worrying over the _ these various locals. he spent two days worrying over the silence i these various locals. he spent two days worrying over the silence of l these various locals. he spent twoj days worrying over the silence of a galaxy _ days worrying over the silence of a galaxy that — days worrying over the silence of a galaxy that ought to be crawling with civilisations. how can anyone protect— with civilisations. how can anyone protect a — with civilisations. how can anyone protect a boy like that from his own imagination, let alone from a few carnivorous — imagination, let alone from a few carnivorous third graders flinging look at _ carnivorous third graders flinging look at it. — carnivorous third graders flinging look at it. i— carnivorous third graders flinging look at it. i was flailing. twitched in my— look at it. i was flailing. twitched in my sleeping bag, trying not to wake _ in my sleeping bag, trying not to wake robin. of course, invertebrates swells _ wake robin. of course, invertebrates swells and _ wake robin. of course, invertebrates swells and two barn owls traded their— swells and two barn owls traded their response, "who cooks for you? who cooks _ their response, "who cooks for you? who cooks for you?" who cooks for this boy. _ who cooks for you?" who cooks for this boy, aside from me? i couldn't imagine _ this boy, aside from me? i couldn't imagine robin toughening up enough to survive _ imagine robin toughening up enough to survive this ponzi scheme of a planet. _ to survive this ponzi scheme of a planet. maybe i don't want him to. i liked him _ planet. maybe i don't want him to. i liked him otherworldly. luke planet. maybe i don't want him to. i liked him otherworldly.— liked him otherworldly. luke norris readin: liked him otherworldly. luke norris reading richard _ liked him otherworldly. luke norris reading richard towers' _ reading richard towers' bewilderment. now to the next one. it is about a fictional female pilot who disappears for trying to fly around the world in 1950. it also about a contemporary movie star named hadley baxter who is playing the pilot in a movie about her life. it is concerned with scale because an individual human life is really big and also small. how do you measure your life against the scale of the planet, how do you measure your life against all the other lives being lived and again, the scale of time. travel writing and fiction in this case became symbiotic, because i found myself pitching travel stories to places i wanted to go to fill in background for the book and places i would then put in the book. it gave me a sense of the geography that marion was covering on her flights of the geography that marion was covering on herflights and in some ways, the scale of the world as a whole. ., ., , , , whole. the mountains, this is romantic— whole. the mountains, this is romantic flying. _ whole. the mountains, this is romantic flying. she - whole. the mountains, this is romantic flying. she should i whole. the mountains, this is i romantic flying. she should turn around. — romantic flying. she should turn around, beat on her way back to montana. — around, beat on her way back to montana. but, gunning the engine, pulling _ montana. but, gunning the engine, pulling her— montana. but, gunning the engine, pulling her scarf up over her mouth and nose. — pulling her scarf up over her mouth and nose, she ascends 12,000 feet. rock and _ and nose, she ascends 12,000 feet. rock and blue eyes loom up, hemming her in— rock and blue eyes loom up, hemming her in below— rock and blue eyes loom up, hemming her in below crevices and in places the snow— her in below crevices and in places the snow has broken through and there _ the snow has broken through and there is— the snow has broken through and there is blackness underneath. the engine _ there is blackness underneath. the engine split is that this approval. high. _ engine split is that this approval. high. too— engine split is that this approval. high, too cold. she circles and circles. — high, too cold. she circles and circles. the _ high, too cold. she circles and circles, the cold wind on her face feels _ circles, the cold wind on her face feels as— circles, the cold wind on her face feels as sharp and violent as glass. her arms _ feels as sharp and violent as glass. her arms are feels as sharp and violent as glass. herarms are so feels as sharp and violent as glass. her arms are so heavy she can barely move _ her arms are so heavy she can barely move her— her arms are so heavy she can barely move her feet on the rudder. no one would _ move her feet on the rudder. no one would ever— move her feet on the rudder. no one would ever find her, no one would ever— would ever find her, no one would ever look. — would ever find her, no one would ever look. the blackness of the crevice — ever look. the blackness of the crevice will swallow her, snow will shroud _ crevice will swallow her, snow will shroud her. — crevice will swallow her, snow will shroud her. but, on the other hand then— shroud her. but, on the other hand then no— shroud her. but, on the other hand then no one — shroud her. but, on the other hand then no one will know how foolish she had _ then no one will know how foolish she had been to come into these mountains. — she had been to come into these mountains. she will not give them her broken — mountains. she will not give them her broken body. applause. we have found out a little about all six of this year's wonderful nominated authors and we are close to announcing the winner, please malcolm nash a 's winner who knows how they are feeling right now, douglas stewart. applause. douglas, it is so good to see you in real life. can i ask what it was like to win the booker during the lockdown and then afterwards, i felt it was a bit like being crowned miss world but not being able to carry out any of your duties? i didn't get my crown halfway through the year, either. it was the most wonderful thing, but also incredibly surreal. as a debut novelist, i didn't have a benchmark and so to go from someone who published a novel in august and then win the booker in november, felt surreal. in solidarity with cop26 happening in my hometown, i have to be the greenest author, everything i did was from my sofa. but it didn't stop the puck reaching people around the world. you did global events but you had to do them from your front room? that is right. you are an executive in the fashion industry for years and i wonder how that fashioned your approach to marketing your novels? the marketing of something — marketing your novels? the marketing of something that _ marketing your novels? the marketing of something that understanding i marketing your novels? the marketing of something that understanding art i of something that understanding art and commerce together quite naturally. but i am very visual thinker and i think about my writing in that way and try to hold texture and i think about balance a lot. i think about the world visually and it allows the reader is to step into the lives of my characters, i hope. does it liberate you having had a whole career in the creative fields? it made me incredibly nervous. i stepped away from my fashion career when the book was first published. it had taken me ten years to write, it had taken me ten years to write, i had written it in secret, because i had written it in secret, because i didn't want anyone's judgment on me and i was nervous about feeling an impostor. when it was published, i thought i want to be so present for this. i thought i want to be so present forthis. i i thought i want to be so present for this. i published into a pandemic, which is not the ideal way to publish at any time, but winning the booker wasjust a huge relief. wonderful. it is interesting watching that lovely interview with the duchess of cornwall. bearing in mind the hardship of your youth, i wonder how you reflect on the trip to clarence house? it wonder how you reflect on the trip to clarence house?— wonder how you reflect on the trip to clarence house? it was a pinch me moment. to clarence house? it was a pinch me moment- it — to clarence house? it was a pinch me moment- it was _ to clarence house? it was a pinch me moment. it was something _ to clarence house? it was a pinch me moment. it was something i - to clarence house? it was a pinch me moment. it was something i could i moment. it was something i could never have thought of. i thought, i am in clarence house! it was very, very strange. the one thing about winning the booker, thejourney very strange. the one thing about winning the booker, the journey has taken me to places i never would have expected. although i have not been anywhere, my book has gone everywhere. 0ne been anywhere, my book has gone everywhere. one of the things that struck me, i set out to write a specific, personal story about a family in glasgow. the way the book has resonated with people in australia and india, it has touched the human condition in a lot of places and that has been the most incredible journey. places and that has been the most incrediblejourney. flan places and that has been the most incredible journey.— incredible 'ourney. can i ask, how will the incredible journey. can i ask, how will the shortlisted _ incredible journey. can i ask, how will the shortlisted authors - incredible journey. can i ask, how will the shortlisted authors in i incredible journey. can i ask, how| will the shortlisted authors in that front row be feeling right now? hopefully they are enjoying every moment of it. they are laughing at me. hopefully they are enjoying it because it does feel like a fever dream afterwards. to be as present as you can in the moment. but it is one of the most wonderful evenings and it is great for me to share their energy. last year we did it from our front rooms and their energy. last year we did it from ourfront rooms and our their energy. last year we did it from our front rooms and our living rooms and to be here and meet some other authors has been incredible. douglas, i am glad we got you on a stage, even though it is a year late. thank you for coming and to give the award. now, the award itself is an attractive trophy, it is shaped like a book and we're very close to finding out who will be taking it away tonight. the moment is finally upon us and to make the announcement, please welcome back to the stage, chair ofjudges. applause. you are not quite going to announce it yet, i am really sorry. butjust a sense of how you got to this decision because it must have been hard. is it true the panel rereads the whole shortlist and i wonder what the experience is like? absolutely, we re—read all of the books three times, all of us. it is amazing how the books divulge new meanings each time you read them and you notice different things about them. it is a testament to the greatness of all the shortlisted title that they did repay multiple readings. and in a very short time and from people with such different vantage point. i5 and from people with such different vantage point. is it and from people with such different vantage point-— vantage point. is it fair to ask how it affected your — vantage point. is it fair to ask how it affected your decision, - vantage point. is it fair to ask how it affected your decision, the i it affected your decision, the rereading process? let it affected your decision, the rereading process?— it affected your decision, the rereading process? let to see new thins rereading process? let to see new thin . s and rereading process? let to see new things and appreciate _ rereading process? let to see new things and appreciate different i things and appreciate different dimensions of what the authors are trying to do. it let you reflect. the first time we read was quite hasty and so having this chance to read, ponderand hasty and so having this chance to read, ponder and the things sink in overtime, it inevitably changes the way you see a book. it should, that is one of the great things that when readers connect with writing. we were talking about having an historical resonance right now. i wondered how hard he was to choose a winner out of the six fine books and writers? it winner out of the six fine books and writers? . . winner out of the six fine books and writers? . , . , , writers? it was incredibly difficult. _ writers? it was incredibly difficult. we _ writers? it was incredibly difficult. we discuss i writers? it was incrediblyl difficult. we discuss these writers? it was incredibly - difficult. we discuss these books writers? it was incredibly _ difficult. we discuss these books at length and every one of these books had passionate support from us and we loved what they were doing. in some ways i think we were so excited by the chance to meet and discuss that we wanted to keep on going. it was really tough, but i think it is important to remember that every one of the shortlisted books —— shortlisted books is in a way, its own winner. can you say a few words about what impressed you so much? you guys are gifted, you have incredible stories to tell, you tell them in amazing ways. i hope you are going to keep on telling them because i know me, thejudges and the readers have met you and your books in this process and we want to keep hearing from you.— books in this process and we want to keep hearing from you. thank you so much. i keep hearing from you. thank you so much- i think — keep hearing from you. thank you so much. i think it— keep hearing from you. thank you so much. i think it is— keep hearing from you. thank you so much. i think it is over _ keep hearing from you. thank you so much. i think it is over to _ keep hearing from you. thank you so much. i think it is over to you - keep hearing from you. thank you so much. i think it is over to you now. much. i think it is over to you now to make the announcement. $5 i to make the announcement. as i mentioned. _ to make the announcement. as i mentioned, it _ to make the announcement. as i mentioned, it was _ to make the announcement. " i mentioned, it was tough. we arrived at a decision after a lot of discussion and arrived at a consensus around a book that is a real master of form and pushes the form in new ways. it has an incredible originality and fluidity of voice. a book that is really dense with historical, metaphorical significance. in that book... the promise by damon galgut. applause. thank you. it has taken a long while to get— thank you. it has taken a long while to get here — thank you. it has taken a long while to get here and now that i have, i kinda _ to get here and now that i have, i kinda feel— to get here and now that i have, i kinda feel that i shouldn't be here. this could — kinda feel that i shouldn't be here. this could just as easily have gone to any— this could just as easily have gone to any of— this could just as easily have gone to any of the other amazing talented people _ to any of the other amazing talented people on— to any of the other amazing talented people on this list and a few others who are _ people on this list and a few others who are not. but seeing as the good fortune _ who are not. but seeing as the good fortune has— who are not. but seeing as the good fortune has fallen to me, let me say this has— fortune has fallen to me, let me say this has been a great year for african — this has been a great year for african writing. i would like to accept — african writing. i would like to accept this on behalf of all the stories— accept this on behalf of all the stories told, untold and the writers heard _ stories told, untold and the writers heard unheard from the remarkable continent _ heard unheard from the remarkable continent that am part of. please keep— continent that am part of. please keep listening to us, there is a lot more _ keep listening to us, there is a lot more to— keep listening to us, there is a lot more to come. i have a lot of wonderful— more to come. i have a lot of wonderful publishers, but in particular i would like to thank declarer— particular i would like to thank declarer pharma and her fabulous team. _ declarer pharma and her fabulous team. thanks to my agent, caroline wood _ team. thanks to my agent, caroline wood at _ team. thanks to my agent, caroline wood at the — team. thanks to my agent, caroline wood at the felicity bryan agency. my ex _ wood at the felicity bryan agency. my ex agent, tony pete who looked after me _ my ex agent, tony pete who looked after me for 40 odd years until retiring. — after me for 40 odd years until retiring. it— after me for 40 odd years until retiring. it is safe to say i wouldn't _ retiring. it is safe to say i wouldn't be here without all of you. definitely _ wouldn't be here without all of you. definitely last, but not last, my thanks— definitely last, but not last, my thanks to — definitely last, but not last, my thanks to the judges and everybody connected to this powerful prize. it has changed my life and please know that i has changed my life and please know that i am _ has changed my life and please know that i am really profoundly, humbly grateful _ that i am really profoundly, humbly grateful for this. thank you. cheering and applause. congratulations, hold on that award, you have been shortlisted before, so you have been shortlisted before, so you will no longer the bridesmaid. how does it feel to be the winner? you had better ask me that tomorrow because _ you had better ask me that tomorrow because my— you had better ask me that tomorrow because my nerves have gone numb. i am stunned. _ because my nerves have gone numb. i am stunned. i— because my nerves have gone numb. i am stunned, i truly didn't expect to be standing — am stunned, i truly didn't expect to be standing here. he am stunned, i truly didn't expect to be standing here.— am stunned, i truly didn't expect to be standing here. he has said in the ast the be standing here. he has said in the past the spot _ be standing here. he has said in the past the spot lies _ be standing here. he has said in the past the spot lies disappeared i be standing here. he has said in the past the spot lies disappeared from | past the spot lies disappeared from you when you don't win, but it will be on you for a while. it is an extraordinary novel, opens with a quote from fellini. how filmic did you want this to be? i quote from fellini. how filmic did you want this to be?— quote from fellini. how filmic did you want this to be? i disc covered it wanted to _ you want this to be? i disc covered it wanted to be _ you want this to be? i disc covered it wanted to be told _ you want this to be? i disc covered it wanted to be told in _ you want this to be? i disc covered it wanted to be told in a _ you want this to be? i disc covered it wanted to be told in a filmic- it wanted to be told in a filmic kind _ it wanted to be told in a filmic kind of— it wanted to be told in a filmic kind of way and the narrator wanted to behave _ kind of way and the narrator wanted to behave like a camera. i love cinema. — to behave like a camera. i love cinema, but there are things cinema cannot— cinema, but there are things cinema cannot do. _ cinema, but there are things cinema cannot do. it — cinema, but there are things cinema cannot do. it cannot travel into the minds _ cannot do. it cannot travel into the minds of— cannot do. it cannot travel into the minds of people and their thoughts and their— minds of people and their thoughts and their feelings, but pros can do that. _ and their feelings, but pros can do that. there — and their feelings, but pros can do that. there is a limit to the camera analogy. _ that. there is a limit to the camera analogy. but — that. there is a limit to the camera analogy, but it does open up some possibilities. the idea of does open up some possibilities. iie: idea of structuring does open up some possibilities. tie: idea of structuring the does open up some possibilities. tie idea of structuring the story around these four funerals, it came from something you witnessed? something i heard from a friend _ something you witnessed? something i heard from a friend and _ something you witnessed? something i heard from a friend and it _ something you witnessed? something i heard from a friend and it was - something you witnessed? something i heard from a friend and it was the i heard from a friend and it was the structure — heard from a friend and it was the structure and possibilities that the structure — structure and possibilities that the structure opened up that most excited — structure opened up that most excited me much more than even the teams. _ excited me much more than even the teams. it— excited me much more than even the teams. it is— excited me much more than even the teams. it is what you can do, especially— teams. it is what you can do, especially if you are playing with time. _ especially if you are playing with time. this— especially if you are playing with time, this particular structure allowed — time, this particular structure allowed me to play in ways that were pleasing _ allowed me to play in ways that were pleasing to _ allowed me to play in ways that were pleasing to me. allowed me to play in ways that were pleasing to me— pleasing to me. talking about the histo of pleasing to me. talking about the history of south _ pleasing to me. talking about the history of south africa _ pleasing to me. talking about the history of south africa in - pleasing to me. talking about the history of south africa in the i pleasing to me. talking about the history of south africa in the last| history of south africa in the last 30 years, it has been dramatic and traumatic and the woman at the heart of the book, she has been promised the house and she doesn't have much of a voice in the novel, literally. that was it was a decision i took early— that was it was a decision i took early on. — that was it was a decision i took early on. i— that was it was a decision i took early on. i could have inhabited her thoughts _ early on. i could have inhabited her thoughts in — early on. i could have inhabited her thoughts in the way i did with the other— thoughts in the way i did with the other characters. but i thought i made _ other characters. but i thought i made her— other characters. but i thought i made her silence, herabsence, if you like. — made her silence, herabsence, if you like, even though she is present. _ you like, even though she is present, in the story more powerful if i present, in the story more powerful if i never— present, in the story more powerful if i never went there. i filled in the space _ if i never went there. i filled in the space around her, i guess. the point _ the space around her, i guess. the point to— the space around her, i guess. the point to be — the space around her, i guess. the point to be made, i woman like this, rural. _ point to be made, i woman like this, rural, uneducated black woman is somebody. — rural, uneducated black woman is somebody, even in the new south africa _ somebody, even in the new south africa who — somebody, even in the new south africa who still has no voice. i wanted — africa who still has no voice. i wanted that to register almost as a physical— wanted that to register almost as a physical fact. wanted that to register almost as a physical fact-— physical fact. how important is it that the book _ physical fact. how important is it that the book is _ physical fact. how important is it that the book is also _ physical fact. how important is it that the book is also funny? it i physical fact. how important is it that the book is also funny? it is| that the book is also funny? it is important _ that the book is also funny? it is important to _ that the book is also funny? it is important to me. _ that the book is also funny? it is important to me. in _ that the book is also funny? it is important to me. in all the previous novels. _ important to me. in all the previous novels. i_ important to me. in all the previous novels, i keep getting told by critics— novels, i keep getting told by critics i— novels, i keep getting told by critics i don't have a sense of humour. _ critics i don't have a sense of humour. it— critics i don't have a sense of humour. it is not true, i find lots of things— humour. it is not true, i find lots of things funny. the narrative voice i of things funny. the narrative voice i discovered — of things funny. the narrative voice i discovered writing this book gave me voice _ i discovered writing this book gave me voice to — i discovered writing this book gave me voice to my humour. it is dark humour. — me voice to my humour. it is dark humour. but _ me voice to my humour. it is dark humour, but funny nevertheless, at least _ humour, but funny nevertheless, at least to— humour, but funny nevertheless, at least to me — humour, but funny nevertheless, at least to me and i guess other people. — least to me and i guess other --eole. . ,, :, least to me and i guess other n-eole. . ., . ., least to me and i guess other --eole. . :, . :, least to me and i guess other ”eole. ., y:, :, ., :, :, people. have you got another book to come out? i — people. have you got another book to come out? i am _ people. have you got another book to come out? i am working _ people. have you got another book to come out? i am working on _ people. have you got another book to come out? i am working on a - come out? i am working on a collection _ come out? i am working on a collection of— come out? i am working on a collection of full— come out? i am working on a collection of full stories, i come out? i am working on a collection of full stories, but| come out? i am working on a| collection of full stories, but i have — collection of full stories, but i have always been slow and i don't think— have always been slow and i don't think that — have always been slow and i don't think that is going to change. you have not think that is going to change. you have got some — think that is going to change. gm. have got some time to think and damon galgut, thank you and congratulations on winning the booker prize. cheering and applause. thank you. cheering and applause. thank you— cheering and applause. thank ou. . , :, thank you. that is it from the booker prize _ thank you. that is it from the booker prize ceremony, i booker prize ceremony, congratulations again to damon galgut and all the shortlisted writers for their outstanding books. and on radio four tomorrow night, alan coming on his memoir, sir paul mccartney talks about the candour about the break—up of the beatles and we review a new film called spencer, starring kristin stewart. but from me and the whole team here at the bbc radio theatre in london, including the shortlisted writers, our winner and the judges, including the shortlisted writers, our winner and thejudges, wishing our winner and the judges, wishing you our winner and thejudges, wishing you all a very good night. applause. this is bbc news. i'mjames i'm james reynolds. the headlines at 8pm... mps have voted to prevent the immediate suspension of a conservative mp accused of breaking lobbying rules. an investigation found 0wen paterson used his position to benefit two companies he worked for. labour called today's vote a return to tory sleaze. when they break the rules, mr speaker, theyjust remake the rules. i think that she needs to consider the procedures of this house in a spirit _ the procedures of this house in a spirit of— the procedures of this house in a spirit of fairness. the chancellor rishi sunak promises to "rewire" the entire global financial system in order to cut carbon emissions. there are some hard months to come this winter, warns england's deputy chief medical officer