time for the media show. hello. the back pages had been dominating the front pages this week with the sale of the newcastle united football club. at the premier league is in the on the part of british public life that the saudis are buying into. the independent in the evening standard can both trace their ownership back to the kingdom, while over in the us, media giants like netflix and disney have had big investment from the saudi. so, does this effect theirjournalism from the saudi. so, does this effect their journalism we from the saudi. so, does this effect theirjournalism we read her the television we watch? joining me to discuss all that debian is a correspondent for time magazine and fortune, a journalist at middle east i, and also a deputy director of the middle east and north africa programme at chatham house and jim watterson who is media editor at the guardian. also today, the classic american music magazine rolling stone has launched in the uk. that may come as a surprise considering how many media publications are shrinking. darren styles is the magazine's managing director. he also publishes attitude magazine and darren, i think we should probably call this marbury launched than a launch, but it didn't go so well the first time the rolling stone lodged in the uk. . ~ ., , in the uk. yeah, i think it was 1968, mick— in the uk. yeah, i think it was 1968, mick jagger _ in the uk. yeah, i think it was 1968, mick jagger launched i in the uk. yeah, i think it was. 1968, mick jagger launched the magazine 1968, mickjagger launched the magazine in partnership with the founder of rolling stone, and he said to me everyone had and he said to me everyone had a lovely time, brent there quite a lot of money over a 12 month period, had a swanky office in chelsea, but decided it was doing more harm than good when i think what turned out to be the last issue speued out to be the last issue spelled bob dylan's name wrong on the front cover, so at that point, they decided it was time to cut and run, so 52 years later, here we are back again, but with spell—check. i later, here we are back again, but with spell-check.- but with spell-check. i look forward to _ but with spell-check. i look forward to getting - but with spell-check. i look forward to getting much - but with spell-check. i look i forward to getting much more about that and what you're doing with this iconic title later in the programme, but let's start with saudi arabia because the spotlight has been on the football, but listeners may be surprised to realise how embedded that country is in the british media. jim watterson the media editor at the guardian, just give us a reminder which newspapers and tv channels are owned or associated with saudi arabia. saudi arabia is a country with a lot— saudi arabia is a country with a lot of— saudi arabia is a country with a lot of money committed wants to improve its image and starts to improve its image and starts to improve its image and starts to improve its image abroad. there — to improve its image abroad. there is_ to improve its image abroad. there is no better place in the world — there is no better place in the world if— there is no better place in the world if you are a golf state to come _ world if you are a golf state to come to change your image than _ to come to change your image than london. with all sorts of institutions, football, media, education all up for sale and willing — education all up for sale and willing to take some money. so in the _ willing to take some money. so in the case _ willing to take some money. so in the case of the media, you've _ in the case of the media, you've got two really prominent examples, the london evening standard — examples, the london evening standard and the independent which — standard and the independent which is — standard and the independent which is now online and on they were _ which is now online and on they were both — which is now online and on they were both owned by lloyd lebed of who— were both owned by lloyd lebed of who is— were both owned by lloyd lebed of who is a russian originally from — of who is a russian originally from russia. he sold stakes to a mysterious saudi businessman who through slightly complicated series of offshore accounts — complicated series of offshore accounts turned out to be in the eyes _ accounts turned out to be in the eyes of the british government connected to the saudi — government connected to the saudi state. now, it is worth noting — saudi state. now, it is worth noting that the independent made — noting that the independent made very clear that they haven't _ made very clear that they haven't had any editorial compromising positions as a resuit— compromising positions as a result of— compromising positions as a result of this, that they feel they— result of this, that they feel they are _ result of this, that they feel they are able to do theirjob as weii~ _ they are able to do theirjob as well. you have got to ask that— as well. you have got to ask that what _ as well. you have got to ask that what is at the saudis are buying — that what is at the saudis are buying when they buy a third of these _ buying when they buy a third of these quite prominent british outlets? my my understanding is that we didn't really know about this on a ship that wasn't in the public domain for quite some time, wasn't? it public domain for quite some time, wasn't?— public domain for quite some time, wasn't? it was kept very auiet time, wasn't? it was kept very quiet through _ time, wasn't? it was kept very quiet through a _ time, wasn't? it was kept very quiet through a series - time, wasn't? it was kept very quiet through a series of - quiet through a series of cayman _ quiet through a series of cayman island accounts and only really _ cayman island accounts and only really came out after some digging _ really came out after some digging by the ft in particular who managed to expose who is the ultimate owner of the his command what british people may not nrow— command what british people may not mow as you might not notice anything — not mow as you might not notice anything different, but across the middle east, the saudi owners— the middle east, the saudi owners have taken the independent brand and launched a series— independent brand and launched a series of websites which have come _ a series of websites which have come in — a series of websites which have come in the eyes of many, been seen _ come in the eyes of many, been seen to— come in the eyes of many, been seen to pressure pro— saudi narrative _ seen to pressure pro— saudi narrative in local languages, so even _ narrative in local languages, so even if _ narrative in local languages, so even if the brand in the uk isn't — so even if the brand in the uk isn't changing, the power of the british brand can be used overseas _ the british brand can be used overseas command this is a lot of it, _ overseas command this is a lot of it. soft — overseas command this is a lot of it, soft power, whether it's advertising that you see promoting saudi arabia, whether it's pr _ promoting saudi arabia, whether it's pr agencies in london that are earning massive sums spinning _ are earning massive sums spinning on behalf of all of the golf kingdoms, or whether it's the golf kingdoms, or whether its actual— the golf kingdoms, or whether it's actual direct ownership in british— it's actual direct ownership in british media through partnerships with companies like the _ partnerships with companies like the independent. and obviously _ like the independent. and obviously as _ like the independent. and obviously as you - like the independent. and obviously as you say, - like the independent. fific obviously as you say, they are not promoting, they are completely independent from their editorial independent. but you are saying as well that these have real—world implications for british readers, british audiences, do you think? i readers, british audiences, do you think?— you think? i think with all journalists, _ you think? i think with all journalists, there - you think? i think with all journalists, there is - you think? i think with all journalists, there is a - journalists, there is a hollowed out industry and there is a lot— hollowed out industry and there is a lot that you can scoop up. if is a lot that you can scoop up. if you — is a lot that you can scoop up. ifyou want _ is a lot that you can scoop up. if you want to buy an old brand of the — if you want to buy an old brand of the british media, if you still— of the british media, if you still wanted to, then it is relatively easy to pick one up on cheap— relatively easy to pick one up on cheap and step it up with relatively underemployed journalists who are available for not — journalists who are available for not enough a lot of money. if for not enough a lot of money. if you — for not enough a lot of money. ifyou want _ for not enough a lot of money. if you want these things and you have _ if you want these things and you have the cash, you can make this happen. so, when we think about— this happen. so, when we think about what influences us, whether— about what influences us, whether it is a mysterious facebook campaign promoting a country. — facebook campaign promoting a country, ora facebook campaign promoting a country, or a more traditional thing — country, or a more traditional thing of— country, or a more traditional thing of owning and outlets, there — thing of owning and outlets, there is— thing of owning and outlets, there is always an opportunity for gult— there is always an opportunity for gulf states, notjust there is always an opportunity for gulf states, not just saudi arabia, — for gulf states, not just saudi arabia, uae, qatarare also looking— arabia, uae, qatarare also looking around the place and investing in outlets. they want to shape — investing in outlets. they want to shape western opinion because they care about how it affects — because they care about how it affects them and reflects them back— affects them and reflects them back home and.— affects them and reflects them back home and. let's bring you in. back home and. let's bring you in- that's _ back home and. let's bring you in. that's the _ back home and. let's bring you in. that's the british _ back home and. let's bring you in. that's the british press - in. that's the british press that we are talking about, but you have also been looking at, i think in. let's bring you in. that's the british press that we are talking about, but you have also been looking at, i think, some of.— have also been looking at, i think, some of. absolutely. i mean, think, some of. absolutely. i mean. the — think, some of. absolutely. i mean, the one _ think, some of. absolutely. i mean, the one that - think, some of. absolutely. i mean, the one that i - think, some of. absolutely. i mean, the one that i delved | mean, the one that i delved into— mean, the one that i delved into deepest _ mean, the one that i delved into deepest was _ mean, the one that i delved into deepest was netflix. i mean, the one that i delved i into deepest was netflix. and that saudi _ into deepest was netflix. and that saudi is— into deepest was netflix. and that saudi is made _ into deepest was netflix. and that saudi is made a - into deepest was netflix. and that saudi is made a big - into deepest was netflix. and that saudi is made a big deall that saudi is made a big deal with— that saudi is made a big deal with netflix. _ that saudi is made a big deal with netflix. now, _ that saudi is made a big deal with netflix. now, it - that saudi is made a big deal with netflix. now, it should. that saudi is made a big deal. with netflix. now, it should be said that — with netflix. now, it should be said that unlike _ with netflix. now, it should be said that unlike what _ with netflix. now, it should be said that unlike what jane - with netflix. now, it should be said that unlike what jane was| said that unlike what jane was talking — said that unlike what jane was talking about, _ said that unlike what jane was talking about, these - said that unlike what jane was talking about, these are - said that unlike what jane was talking about, these are us i talking about, these are us companies _ talking about, these are us companies going _ talking about, these are us companies going out- talking about, these are us companies going out and i talking about, these are us - companies going out and looking for growth — companies going out and looking for growth markets. _ companies going out and looking for growth markets. a _ companies going out and looking for growth markets. a lot - companies going out and looking for growth markets. a lot of- for growth markets. a lot of them — for growth markets. a lot of them are _ for growth markets. a lot of them are kind _ for growth markets. a lot of them are kind of— for growth markets. a lot of them are kind of tapped - for growth markets. a lot of them are kind of tapped out for growth markets. a lot of. them are kind of tapped out in them are kind of tapped out in the west _ them are kind of tapped out in the west we _ them are kind of tapped out in the west. we think— them are kind of tapped out in the west. we think of- them are kind of tapped out in the west. we think of netflix. the west. we think of netflix as treen— the west. we think of netflix as been a _ the west. we think of netflix as been a booming _ the west. we think of netflixj as been a booming company, the west. we think of netflix - as been a booming company, but in fact, _ as been a booming company, but in fact, its— as been a booming company, but in fact, its growth _ as been a booming company, but in fact, its growth is— as been a booming company, but in fact, its growth is really- in fact, its growth is really slowing _ in fact, its growth is really slowing. and _ in fact, its growth is really slowing. and where - in fact, its growth is really slowing. and where are i in fact, its growth is really. slowing. and where are you going — slowing. and where are you going to _ slowing. and where are you going to get _ slowing. and where are you going to get millions- slowing. and where are you going to get millions and i going to get millions and millions— going to get millions and millions of, _ going to get millions and millions of, you - going to get millions and millions of, you know, i going to get millions and . millions of, you know, well funded _ millions of, you know, well funded young _ millions of, you know, well funded young people - millions of, you know, well funded young people to - millions of, you know, welll funded young people to sign millions of, you know, well- funded young people to sign on to your— funded young people to sign on to your service? _ funded young people to sign on to your service? it's _ funded young people to sign on to your service? it's going - funded young people to sign on to your service? it's going to i to your service? it's going to be in — to your service? it's going to be in countries _ to your service? it's going to be in countries like - to your service? it's going to be in countries like saudi - be in countries like saudi arabia, _ be in countries like saudi arabia, where _ be in countries like saudi arabia, where two - be in countries like saudi arabia, where two thirds| be in countries like saudi . arabia, where two thirds of be in countries like saudi - arabia, where two thirds of the country— arabia, where two thirds of the country as— arabia, where two thirds of the country as younger— arabia, where two thirds of the country as younger than - arabia, where two thirds of the country as younger than 30. i country as younger than 30. they— country as younger than 30. they have — country as younger than 30. they have the _ country as younger than 30. they have the money - country as younger than 30. they have the money to - country as younger than 30. . they have the money to spend, they— they have the money to spend, they are — they have the money to spend, they are looking _ they have the money to spend, they are looking for— they are looking for entertainment. - they are looking forl entertainment. they they are looking for- entertainment. they are they are looking for— entertainment. they are hungry for apps~ — entertainment. they are hungry for apps. and _ entertainment. they are hungry for apps. and as _ entertainment. they are hungry for apps. and as many- entertainment. they are hungry for apps. and as many of- entertainment. they are hungry for apps. and as many of the i for apps. and as many of the saudi — for apps. and as many of the saudi said _ for apps. and as many of the saudi said he _ for apps. and as many of the saudi said he spoke - for apps. and as many of the saudi said he spoke to - for apps. and as many of the saudi said he spoke to said, i saudi said he spoke to said, you — saudi said he spoke to said, you know. _ saudi said he spoke to said, you know. we _ saudi said he spoke to said, you know, we binge - saudi said he spoke to said, you know, we binge watch. saudi said he spoke to said, i you know, we binge watch all the same _ you know, we binge watch all the same tv— you know, we binge watch all the same tv as _ you know, we binge watch all the same tv as you - you know, we binge watch all the same tv as you do, - you know, we binge watch all the same tv as you do, we . you know, we binge watch all. the same tv as you do, we just do it— the same tv as you do, we just do it online _ the same tv as you do, we 'ust do it onlinafi the same tv as you do, we 'ust do it onlinofi do it online. but why does that mean that _ do it online. but why does that mean that the _ do it online. but why does that mean that the saudis - do it online. but why does that mean that the saudis want - do it online. but why does that mean that the saudis want to i mean that the saudis want to invite —— invest in netflix. i can see why they would want to reach them. can see why they would want to reach them-— reach them. well, that was actually the _ reach them. well, that was actually the direction - reach them. well, that was actually the direction it - reach them. well, that was l actually the direction it went. what — actually the direction it went. what saudi _ actually the direction it went. what saudi is _ actually the direction it went. what saudi is investing - actually the direction it went. what saudi is investing in - actually the direction it went. j what saudi is investing in our other— what saudi is investing in our other kinds— what saudi is investing in our other kinds of— what saudi is investing in our other kinds of media - what saudi is investing in our. other kinds of media companies. they— other kinds of media companies. they have — other kinds of media companies. they have invested _ other kinds of media companies. they have invested hugely - other kinds of media companies. they have invested hugely in - they have invested hugely in disney, _ they have invested hugely in disney. and _ they have invested hugely in disney, and the _ they have invested hugely in disney, and the amc- they have invested hugely in disney, and the amc movie. disney, and the amc movie theatres _ disney, and the amc movie theatres. there _ disney, and the amc movie theatres. there wasn't - disney, and the amc movie theatres. there wasn't a i disney, and the amc movie - theatres. there wasn't a movie theatre — theatres. there wasn't a movie theatre and _ theatres. there wasn't a movie theatre and saudi _ theatres. there wasn't a movie theatre and saudi arabia - theatres. there wasn't a movie theatre and saudi arabia until. theatre and saudi arabia until a few— theatre and saudi arabia until a few years _ theatre and saudi arabia until a few years ago _ theatre and saudi arabia until a few years ago. they - theatre and saudi arabia until a few years ago. they hadn't. a few years ago. they hadn't been — a few years ago. they hadn't been a — a few years ago. they hadn't been a movie _ a few years ago. they hadn't been a movie theatre - a few years ago. they hadn't been a movie theatre open l a few years ago. they hadn't . been a movie theatre open and that the — been a movie theatre open and that the kingdom _ been a movie theatre open and that the kingdom for _ been a movie theatre open andl that the kingdom for something like 35— that the kingdom for something like 35 years _ that the kingdom for something like 35 years. find _ that the kingdom for something like 35 years— like 35 years. and now are there lots? _ like 35 years. and now are there lots? there - like 35 years. and now are there lots? there are, - there lots? there are, according _ there lots? there are, according to _ there lots? there are, according to the - there lots? there are, according to the head | there lots? there are, i according to the head of there lots? there are, - according to the head of amc, which — according to the head of amc, which runs. _ according to the head of amc, which runs. i— according to the head of amc, which runs, i think— according to the head of amc, which runs, i think they- according to the head of amc, which runs, i think they have. which runs, i think they have opened — which runs, i think they have opened about— which runs, i think they have opened about a _ which runs, i think they have opened about a dozen - which runs, i think they have | opened about a dozen around saudi — opened about a dozen around saudi arabia. _ opened about a dozen around saudi arabia. the _ opened about a dozen around saudi arabia. the one - opened about a dozen around saudi arabia. the one in- opened about a dozen around saudi arabia. the one in riaz| saudi arabia. the one in riaz they— saudi arabia. the one in riaz they estimate _ saudi arabia. the one in riaz they estimate does - saudi arabia. the one in riaz they estimate does about. saudi arabia. the one in riaz they estimate does about 11 . they estimate does about 11 times— they estimate does about 11 times that _ they estimate does about 11 times that traffic— they estimate does about 11 times that traffic as - they estimate does about 11 times that traffic as the - they estimate does about 11 j times that traffic as the one in london. _ times that traffic as the one in london, for— times that traffic as the one in london, for example. - times that traffic as the one i in london, for example. they are packed, _ in london, for example. they are packed, they've - in london, for example. they are packed, they've been - in london, for example. they. are packed, they've been packed from _ are packed, they've been packed from day — are packed, they've been packed from day one _ are packed, they've been packed from day one when _ are packed, they've been packed from day one when they - are packed, they've been packed from day one when they opened | from day one when they opened and i_ from day one when they opened and i think— from day one when they opened and i think it— from day one when they opened and i think it was _ from day one when they opened and i think it was 2018- from day one when they opened and i think it was 2018 from - and i think it was 2018 from a different— and i think it was 2018 from a different showing _ and i think it was 2018 from a different showing was - and i think it was 2018 from a different showing was black. different showing was black panther~ _ different showing was black panther~ it _ different showing was black panther. it was _ different showing was black panther. it was the - different showing was black panther. it was the biggest| panther. it was the biggest event — panther. it was the biggest event in _ panther. it was the biggest event in re- _ panther. it was the biggest event in re— add _ panther. it was the biggest event in re— add in - panther. it was the biggest. event in re— add in memory. panther. it was the biggest - event in re— add in memory. find event in re- add in memory. and that is interesting, _ event in re— add in memory. aim} that is interesting, because that is interesting, because thatis that is interesting, because that is the same black panther that is the same black panther that you see around the world. i wonder whether the investment in something like netflix, the same questions i asked jen in a sense, doesn't have real—world implications in terms of what they are seen? does it give the saudis any editorial sway, for example, and what netflix viewers are seeing. lode example, and what netflix viewers are seeing. we see tiny bits of that, _ viewers are seeing. we see tiny bits of that, and _ viewers are seeing. we see tiny bits of that, and i _ viewers are seeing. we see tiny bits of that, and i would - viewers are seeing. we see tiny bits of that, and i would say - bits of that, and i would say unlike — bits of that, and i would say unlike what _ bits of that, and i would say unlike whatjim_ bits of that, and i would say unlike whatjim was- bits of that, and i would say unlike whatjim was saying, | bits of that, and i would say. unlike whatjim was saying, i think— unlike whatjim was saying, i think one _ unlike whatjim was saying, i think one of _ unlike whatjim was saying, i think one of the _ unlike whatjim was saying, i think one of the major - unlike whatjim was saying, i| think one of the major effects is a kind — think one of the major effects is a kind of— think one of the major effects is a kind of hesitation - think one of the major effects is a kind of hesitation and - is a kind of hesitation and that— is a kind of hesitation and that western _ is a kind of hesitation and that western producers . is a kind of hesitation and i that western producers have now — that western producers have now can _ that western producers have now can they _ that western producers have now. can they create - that western producers have . now. can they create something that is, — now. can they create something that is, you _ now. can they create something that is, you know, _ now. can they create something that is, you know, very- that is, you know, very critical— that is, you know, very critical of— that is, you know, very critical of the _ that is, you know, very critical of the saudi - that is, you know, very critical of the saudi is i critical of the saudi is without— critical of the saudi is without risking - critical of the saudi is without risking losingj critical of the saudi is - without risking losing their shirt— without risking losing their shirt and _ without risking losing their shirt and that _ without risking losing their shirt and that the - without risking losing their shirt and that the process. j shirt and that the process. there _ shirt and that the process. there was— shirt and that the process. there was one _ shirt and that the process. there was one instance . shirt and that the process. i there was one instance which shirt and that the process. - there was one instance which of the documentary, _ there was one instance which of the documentary, the _ there was one instance which of| the documentary, the dissidents made _ the documentary, the dissidents made by— the documentary, the dissidents made by a — the documentary, the dissidents made by a oscar—winning - the documentary, the dissidents made by a oscar—winning film i made by a oscar—winning film director— made by a oscar—winning film director came _ made by a oscar—winning film director came out— made by a oscar—winning film director came out in— made by a oscar—winning film director came out injanuaryl made by a oscar—winning filml director came out injanuary of last year~ _ director came out injanuary of last year~ it _ director came out injanuary of last year. it could _ director came out injanuary of last year. it could not - director came out injanuary of last year. it could not get - last year. it could not get distribution— last year. it could not get distribution because - last year. it could not get distribution because it. last year. it could not get. distribution because it was about— distribution because it was about the _ distribution because it was about the murder- distribution because it was about the murder of - distribution because it was. about the murder ofjamaal about the murder of jamaal khashoggi _ about the murder of jamaal khashoggi it— about the murder ofjamaal khashoggi. it took - about the murder ofjamaal khashoggi. it took a - about the murder ofjamaal khashoggi. it took a very. about the murder ofjamaal . khashoggi. it took a very long time — khashoggi. it took a very long time for— khashoggi. it took a very long time for that— khashoggi. it took a very long time for that documentary- khashoggi. it took a very long time for that documentary to. khashoggi. it took a very long . time for that documentary to be picked _ time for that documentary to be picked up — time for that documentary to be picked up by— time for that documentary to be picked up by anybody. _ time for that documentary to be picked up by anybody. and - time for that documentary to be picked up by anybody. and they| picked up by anybody. and they were _ picked up by anybody. and they were very— picked up by anybody. and they were very clear— picked up by anybody. and they were very clear reasons - picked up by anybody. and they were very clear reasons why. i . were very clear reasons why. i mean, _ were very clear reasons why. i mean. netflix _ were very clear reasons why. i mean, netflix screen - were very clear reasons why. i mean, netflix screen debts i were very clear reasons why. i mean, netflix screen debts at| mean, netflix screen debts at or came — mean, netflix screen debts at or came to— mean, netflix screen debts at or came to the _ mean, netflix screen debts at or came to the screening - mean, netflix screen debts at or came to the screening of. mean, netflix screen debts at or came to the screening of it| or came to the screening of it at the — or came to the screening of it at the sundance _ or came to the screening of it at the sundance film - or came to the screening of it at the sundance film festival| at the sundance film festival and tipped _ at the sundance film festival and tipped a _ at the sundance film festival and tipped a pass _ at the sundance film festival and tipped a pass on - at the sundance film festival and tipped a pass on it, - at the sundance film festival and tipped a pass on it, as l at the sundance film festival. and tipped a pass on it, as did everybody— and tipped a pass on it, as did everybody else. _ and tipped a pass on it, as did everybody else. i— and tipped a pass on it, as did everybody else.— everybody else. i suppose netflix has _ everybody else. i suppose netflix has put _ everybody else. i suppose netflix has put it - everybody else. i suppose netflix has put it aside - everybody else. i suppose | netflix has put it aside end everybody else. i suppose - netflix has put it aside end of grace there might be other reasons why they didn't want the documentary it may not of being any debt, or whatever, but you mentioned earlier this deal with netflix and saudi, what was that deal?- deal with netflix and saudi, what was that deal? well, the saudi is made _ what was that deal? well, the saudi is made two _ what was that deal? well, the saudi is made two productionl saudi is made two production deals— saudi is made two production deals with _ saudi is made two production deals with reactive _ saudi is made two production| deals with reactive production comedies _ deals with reactive production comedies -- _ deals with reactive production comedies -- i— deals with reactive production comedies —— i beg _ deals with reactive production comedies —— i beg your- deals with reactive production l comedies —— i beg your pardon, that— comedies —— i beg your pardon, that netflix _ comedies —— i beg your pardon, that netflix made _ comedies —— i beg your pardon, that netflix made two _ that netflix made two production— that netflix made two production deals - that netflix made two production deals five. that netflix made two - production deals five years each — production deals five years each and _ production deals five years each and five _ production deals five years each and five products - production deals five years i each and five products each, production deals five years - each and five products each, tv series— each and five products each, tv series are — each and five products each, tv series are movies _ each and five products each, tv series are movies with - each and five products each, tv series are movies with two - series are movies with two production— series are movies with two production companies- series are movies with two production companies andl series are movies with two - production companies and rehab. actually, — production companies and rehab. actually, the _ production companies and rehab. actually, the interesting - production companies and rehab. actually, the interesting thing. actually, the interesting thing is that— actually, the interesting thing is that you _ actually, the interesting thing is that you and _ actually, the interesting thing is that you and i _ actually, the interesting thing is that you and i can— actually, the interesting thing is that you and i can now- actually, the interesting thing is that you and i can now click| is that you and i can now click on netflix _ is that you and i can now click on netflix and _ is that you and i can now click on netflix and see _ is that you and i can now click on netflix and see what - is that you and i can now click on netflix and see what they. on netflix and see what they have — on netflix and see what they have produced. _ on netflix and see what they have produced. they- on netflix and see what they have produced. they are - on netflix and see what they| have produced. they are very unusual— have produced. they are very unusual all— have produced. they are very unusual all and _ have produced. they are very unusual all and rather- unusual all and rather surprising _ unusual all and rather surprising these - unusual all and rather surprising these are l unusual all and rather- surprising these are made by young — surprising these are made by young cutting _ surprising these are made by young cutting edge _ surprising these are made by young cutting edge film - young cutting edge film directors— young cutting edge film directors of— young cutting edge film directors of which - young cutting edge film directors of which there young cutting edge film - directors of which there are many— directors of which there are many and _ directors of which there are many and riyadh. - directors of which there are many and riyadh. and - directors of which there are many and riyadh. and they directors of which there are - many and riyadh. and they are creating — many and riyadh. and they are creating tv— many and riyadh. and they are creating tv series _ many and riyadh. and they are creating tv series and - many and riyadh. and they are creating tv series and movies. creating tv series and movies that— creating tv series and movies that are — creating tv series and movies that are very— creating tv series and movies that are very clearly— creating tv series and movies that are very clearly critical. that are very clearly critical all of — that are very clearly critical all of rich _ that are very clearly critical all of rich saudi _ that are very clearly critical all of rich saudi is, - that are very clearly critical| all of rich saudi is, possibly the — all of rich saudi is, possibly the royals, _ all of rich saudi is, possibly the royals, although, - all of rich saudi is, possiblyl the royals, although, that's all of rich saudi is, possibly. the royals, although, that's a little — the royals, although, that's a little bit — the royals, although, that's a little bit less _ the royals, although, that's a little bit less obvious. - the royals, although, that's a little bit less obvious. they i little bit less obvious. they ekplore, _ little bit less obvious. they explore. you _ little bit less obvious. they explore, you know, - little bit less obvious. they explore, you know, the - explore, you know, the repressed _ explore, you know, the repressed sexuality. i explore, you know, the . repressed sexuality. they explore, you know, the - repressed sexuality. they are using — repressed sexuality. they are using the _ repressed sexuality. they are using the medium _ repressed sexuality. they are using the medium to - repressed sexuality. they are using the medium to express| using the medium to express themselves— using the medium to express themselves in— using the medium to express themselves in a _ using the medium to express themselves in a way- using the medium to express themselves in a way that - using the medium to express themselves in a way that i i themselves in a way that i think— themselves in a way that i think might _ themselves in a way that i think might be _ themselves in a way that i think might be quite - themselves in a way that i - think might be quite surprising to western _ think might be quite surprising to western audiences. - to western audiences. interesting. _ to western audiences. interesting. you - to western audiences. . interesting. you mention to western audiences. - interesting. you mentionjust then the awful murder ofjamaal khashoggi, that was on the a few years ago, and there was outcry across the media, across the world, many parts of the world about that. i western media companies not seeing any pushback for their engagement with saudi arabia?— with saudi arabia? very, very little. with saudi arabia? very, very little- and — with saudi arabia? very, very little. and in _ with saudi arabia? very, very little. and in fact, _ with saudi arabia? very, very little. and in fact, jamaal- little. and in fact, jamaal khashoggi's_ little. and in fact, jamaal khashoggi's murder- little. and in fact, jamaali khashoggi's murder which happened _ khashoggi's murder which happened exactly - khashoggi's murder which happened exactly three i khashoggi's murder which i happened exactly three years a-o happened exactly three years ago came _ happened exactly three years ago came on— happened exactly three years ago came on the _ happened exactly three years ago came on the six- happened exactly three years ago came on the six months. ago came on the six months after— ago came on the six months after the _ ago came on the six months after the crown— ago came on the six months after the crown prince - ago came on the six months after the crown prince took. after the crown prince took this— after the crown prince took this major— after the crown prince took this major trip— after the crown prince took this major trip around - after the crown prince took this major trip around newj after the crown prince took- this major trip around new york and silicon— this major trip around new york and silicon valley _ this major trip around new york and silicon valley and _ this major trip around new york and silicon valley and la, - this major trip around new york and silicon valley and la, had i and silicon valley and la, had dinner— and silicon valley and la, had dinner with _ and silicon valley and la, had dinner with all— and silicon valley and la, had dinner with all of— and silicon valley and la, had dinner with all of the - and silicon valley and la, had dinner with all of the major i dinner with all of the major movie _ dinner with all of the major movie stars _ dinner with all of the major movie stars and _ dinner with all of the major movie stars and directors, i dinner with all of the major. movie stars and directors, you know, _ movie stars and directors, you know. just _ movie stars and directors, you know, just wander— movie stars and directors, you know, just wander around - movie stars and directors, you know, just wander around the | know, just wander around the major— know, just wander around the major tech _ know, just wander around the major tech giants _ know, just wander around the major tech giants of - know, just wander around the major tech giants of silicon i major tech giants of silicon valley _ major tech giants of silicon valley. there _ major tech giants of silicon valley. there were - major tech giants of silicon . valley. there were enormous deals — valley. there were enormous deals in— valley. there were enormous deals in the _ valley. there were enormous deals in the work. _ valley. there were enormous deals in the work. six - valley. there were enormousj deals in the work. six months later, — deals in the work. six months later, jamaal— deals in the work. six months later, jamaal khashoggi - deals in the work. six months later, jamaal khashoggi was i later, jamaal khashoggi was murdered. _ later, jamaal khashoggi was murdered, and— later, jamaal khashoggi was murdered, and there - later, jamaal khashoggi was murdered, and there was i later, jamaal khashoggi was murdered, and there was a . murdered, and there was a freeze _ murdered, and there was a freeze for— murdered, and there was a freeze for about— murdered, and there was a freeze for about a - murdered, and there was a freeze for about a year- murdered, and there was a freeze for about a year or i murdered, and there was a - freeze for about a year or ato, teal, _ freeze for about a year or ato, teal. but— freeze for about a year or ato, teal. but i_ freeze for about a year or ato, teal, but i would _ freeze for about a year or ato, teal, but i would say— freeze for about a year or ato, teal, but i would say that - teal, but i would say that that is pretty— teal, but i would say that that is pretty much— teal, but i would say that that is pretty much behind - teal, but i would say that that is pretty much behind the - teal, but i would say that that i is pretty much behind the saudi is. is pretty much behind the saudi is you — is pretty much behind the saudi is you have _ is pretty much behind the saudi is. you have what _ is pretty much behind the saudi is. you have what is _ is pretty much behind the saudi is. you have what is now- is pretty much behind the saudi is. you have what is now a - is pretty much behind the saudi is. you have what is now a kind| is. you have what is now a kind of schizophrenic— is. you have what is now a kind of schizophrenic experience - of schizophrenic experience where, _ of schizophrenic experience where, you _ of schizophrenic experience where, you know, - of schizophrenic experience where, you know, six - of schizophrenic experience i where, you know, six flags, of schizophrenic experience - where, you know, six flags, the bil where, you know, six flags, the big amusement _ where, you know, six flags, the big amusement park— where, you know, six flags, the big amusement park company, . where, you know, six flags, the . big amusement park company, the biggest _ big amusement park company, the biggest amusement— big amusement park company, the biggest amusement park _ big amusement park company, the biggest amusement park company| biggest amusement park company in the _ biggest amusement park company in the world — biggest amusement park company in the world is _ biggest amusement park company in the world is building _ biggest amusement park company in the world is building a - biggest amusement park company in the world is building a huge - in the world is building a huge amusement— in the world is building a huge amusement park— in the world is building a huge amusement park outside - in the world is building a huge i amusement park outside riyadh. there _ amusement park outside riyadh. there is— amusement park outside riyadh. there is a — amusement park outside riyadh. there is a film _ amusement park outside riyadh. there is a film festival _ amusement park outside riyadh. there is a film festival about - there is a film festival about to happen _ there is a film festival about to happen i _ there is a film festival about to happen i believe - there is a film festival about to happen i believe next - there is a film festival about - to happen i believe next month. there _ to happen i believe next month. there is— to happen i believe next month. there is a — to happen i believe next month. there is a lot _ to happen i believe next month. there is a lot going _ to happen i believe next month. there is a lot going on— to happen i believe next month. there is a lot going on in- there is a lot going on in saudi _ there is a lot going on in saudi arabia, _ there is a lot going on in saudi arabia, which- there is a lot going on in- saudi arabia, which involves westerh_ saudi arabia, which involves western media _ saudi arabia, which involves western media companies l western media companies entertainment _ western media companiesi entertainment companies, western media companies - entertainment companies, and they— entertainment companies, and they appear— entertainment companies, and they appear to _ entertainment companies, and they appear to have _ entertainment companies, and they appear to have turned - entertainment companies, andi they appear to have turned the page — they appear to have turned the page m— they appear to have turned the .a i e, �* ., , ., they appear to have turned the nae. �* ., ., they appear to have turned the mae.�* ., .,, page. at that point to bring ou and page. at that point to bring you and time _ page. at that point to bring you and time are _ page. at that point to bring you and time are you - page. at that point to bring - you and time are you surprised there is not more pushback over what happened with jamaal khashoggi? i what happened with jamaal khashoggi?— what happened with jamaal khasho: ai? ~ . khashoggi? i think that there was this two-year _ khashoggi? i think that there was this two-year lull - khashoggi? i think that there was this two-year lull where l was this two—year lull where nbs and they kingdom receded. they tried to take a back—seat, not be so public, and work on domestic issues. so, that is what we have been sort of witnessing over this two—year period, and with the sale of new casella, i think this is a sort of signal that people are willing to turn the page, and as they being described, as so many companies are still looking for markets, western companies have not been very successful or able to push back on human rights issues, which in the kingdom, of course, go beyond the brutal murder of jamaal khashoggi, and also worthwhile elevating and mention eating the activists and women and journalists are detained in the kingdom, but the mark as it is hugely appealing. there is a very young population that is looking to benefit from the social liberalisation that it was granted by mohammed bin salamon, so there is a domestic dynamic care to the sports washing our media washing that is taking place, command power projection is very much tied to domestic drivers of reform in the kingdom, and of course, it has broader regional and international implications as well. . international implications as well. , , ., well. let me bring you in, har , well. let me bring you in, harry, because, - well. let me bring you in, harry, because, you - well. let me bring you in, | harry, because, you know, well. let me bring you in, - harry, because, you know, we mention football, that has been the big story this past week some saudi led consortium buying into newcastle united football club. everybody from the middle eastern eye, because, you know, and all the excitable coverage about these new owners in football, there has actually been much less about something we've obviously noticed on the media show, which we have noticed because it's the media show, in the end, this is a media story in a sense, tell us what our commit be income to be out, and how that plays into this. so be income to be out, and how that plays into this.— that plays into this. so the sorts that plays into this. so the sports broadcaster - that plays into this. so the sports broadcaster that . that plays into this. so the | sports broadcaster that has that plays into this. so the - sports broadcaster that has the commercial rights to air primarily games and sporting events around the world for the middle east and also a lot of the global south, for example, indonesia is a big audience for those parts. what happened was in 2017, when there was a land blockade imposed on qatar, which owns these stocks, which also happened, and this is imposed by saudi arabia, i might add, but what also happened was sports rather than band inside saudi arabia, and then a few weeks later, what you would also see emerging is a new website called the rto, and this is being promoted by senior rail advisers on twitter who is accused of helping orchestrate the murder of the journalist jamaal khashoggi, as we mentioned earlier, command that service was offering the sports, offering sports. clearly the primarily, right? that is part of it?— that is part of it? and the sorts that is part of it? and the sports cap _ that is part of it? and the sports cop end _ that is part of it? and the sports cop end of- that is part of it? and the sports cop end of this - that is part of it? and the sports cop end of this and realised that they did some digging some cells as well as the permitting and discovered that the signal that was being used to air these games originated not from their colombian and cuban consortium which is what the saudi is reclaiming, but from saudi arabia, from a company called arab, which is a majority—owned by the saudi government. and then what happened after that, then what happened after that, the qatar a's, they then took this case to the wto and to kind of get to the bottom of why this is happening and they took saudi arabia to the debbie tr arbitration process, and the wto it then ruled in favour of saudi arabia. sorry, not saudi arabia, qatar, and accused saudi arabia of essentially not charging and prosecuting the people behind piq. find charging and prosecuting the people behind piq.— charging and prosecuting the people behind piq. and this is a big deal— people behind piq. and this is a big deal for— people behind piq. and this is a big deal for the _ people behind piq. and this is a big dealfor the premier- a big dealfor the premier they, at my newcastle, that style that take a very. it’s they, at my newcastle, that style that take a very.- style that take a very. it's a massive — style that take a very. it's a massive deal— style that take a very. it's a massive deal for _ style that take a very. it's a massive deal for the - style that take a very. it's a l massive deal for the premier league because this contract, for example, it is worth £500,000,000, and that is a lot of money for our premier league. and when the newcastle door became public, one of the first people to condemn it and also lobby the premier league and the uk government against this deal was the sports. but then what also happened was in early 2,000, early 2021, we saw saudi arabia and its blockade on qatar. and as a result of that, what we also saw last week was being sports are allowed to air its games and its programming inside saudi arabia. , ., ., arabia. right, so there we go. i should point _ arabia. right, so there we go. i should point out _ arabia. right, so there we go. i should point out is _ arabia. right, so there we go. i should point out is on - arabia. right, so there we go. i should point out is on this i i should point out is on this tip for tat or more than tip for tat between qatar and saudi arabia, and point out that they had previously blocked the website because of your links to qatar. . website because of your links to qatar.- and _ website because of your links to qatar. yes. and what is income — to qatar. yes. and what is income any _ to qatar. yes. and what is income any thoughts - to qatar. yes. and what is income any thoughts on i to qatar. yes. and what is| income any thoughts on all to qatar. res and what is income any thoughts on all of this, being, be out, newcastle. ithink this, being, be out, newcastle. i think with all of that, it is so hard to follow if you are not sort of entwined and the re . ional not sort of entwined and the regional politics _ not sort of entwined and the regional politics command i not sort of entwined and the i regional politics command it's difficult — regional politics command it's difficult. i spent so long on this. — difficult. i spent so long on this. and _ difficult. i spent so long on this, and i struggle with that. you _ this, and i struggle with that. you end — this, and i struggle with that. you end up with a story where the thing _ you end up with a story where the thing blocking a of river prernier— the thing blocking a of river premier league club appears to be more — premier league club appears to be more about who is paying for the television rights than about— the television rights than about the human rights of the country— about the human rights of the country that is connected to the purchases. so, you know, we have _ the purchases. so, you know, we have us _ the purchases. so, you know, we have us fit — the purchases. so, you know, we have us fit and proper persons test, _ have us fit and proper persons test. but — have us fit and proper persons test, but all this comes back to there _ test, but all this comes back to there is no better place in the world _ to there is no better place in the world to come to than the uk if— the world to come to than the uk it you _ the world to come to than the uk if you want to buy an institution to improve your reputation and whether it is a football— reputation and whether it is a football club or media outlet, is what — football club or media outlet, is what we come back to, and ultimately, the saudis have money— ultimately, the saudis have money on a scale that very few british— money on a scale that very few british investors are backers could — british investors are backers could even dream of having. how ical is could even dream of having. how typical is all— could even dream of having. how typical is all of— could even dream of having. how typical is all of this? _ could even dream of having. honor typical is all of this? we talked about today of the way that the gulf states use the media as a form of soft power asjim media as a form of soft power as jim was media as a form of soft power asjim was saying. figs media as a form of soft power as jim was saying.— media as a form of soft power as jim was saying. as we were talkin: as jim was saying. as we were talking about _ as jim was saying. as we were talking about the _ as jim was saying. as we were talking about the gulf, - as jim was saying. as we were talking about the gulf, i - as jim was saying. as we were talking about the gulf, i think| talking about the gulf, i think we should _ talking about the gulf, i think we should broaden _ talking about the gulf, i think we should broaden the - talking about the gulf, i think| we should broaden the scope. this— we should broaden the scope. this is— we should broaden the scope. this is hot— we should broaden the scope. this is not unique _ we should broaden the scope. this is not unique to - we should broaden the scope. this is not unique to saudi - this is not unique to saudi arabia _ this is not unique to saudi arabia. qatar, _ this is not unique to saudi arabia. qatar, the- this is not unique to saudi arabia. qatar, the uae- this is not unique to saudi| arabia. qatar, the uae are equally— arabia. qatar, the uae are equally involved _ arabia. qatar, the uae are equally involved in - arabia. qatar, the uae are. equally involved in investing and using _ equally involved in investing and using the _ equally involved in investing and using the media - equally involved in investing and using the media and - equally involved in investing i and using the media and trying to project— and using the media and trying to project soft _ and using the media and trying to project soft power. - and using the media and trying to project soft power. the? - to pro'ect soft power. they have to project soft power. they have a lot _ to project soft power. they have a lot of _ to project soft power. they have a lot of money - to project soft power. they have a lot of money to - to project soft power. they i have a lot of money to throw around. , ., . around. they do indeed, and art of around. they do indeed, and part of the — around. they do indeed, and part of the reason _ around. they do indeed, and part of the reason behind - around. they do indeed, and| part of the reason behind the multiyear— part of the reason behind the multiyear rift _ part of the reason behind the multiyear rift between - part of the reason behind the multiyear rift between saudi i multiyear rift between saudi arabia. _ multiyear rift between saudi arabia. the _ multiyear rift between saudi arabia, the uae, _ multiyear rift between saudi arabia, the uae, qatar- multiyear rift between saudi arabia, the uae, qatarandl arabia, the uae, qatarand bahrain _ arabia, the uae, qatarand bahrain was _ arabia, the uae, qatarand bahrain was qatar's - arabia, the uae, qatarand bahrain was qatar's al - arabia, the uae, qatarand i bahrain was qatar's aljazeera media — bahrain was qatar's aljazeera media station— bahrain was qatar's aljazeera media station which _ bahrain was qatar's aljazeera media station which was - bahrain was qatar's aljazeera media station which was seen| bahrain was qatar's aljazeera . media station which was seen as an extension _ media station which was seen as an extension of _ media station which was seen as an extension of the _ media station which was seen as an extension of the qatari - an extension of the qatari government _ an extension of the qatari government. it _ an extension of the qatari government. it didn't- an extension of the qatari. government. it didn't provide accurate _ government. it didn't provide accurate or— government. it didn't provide accurate or honest _ government. it didn't provide accurate or honest reportingi government. it didn't provide . accurate or honest reporting on regional— accurate or honest reporting on regional issues _ accurate or honest reporting on regional issues so _ accurate or honest reporting on regional issues so as _ accurate or honest reporting on regional issues so as not - accurate or honest reporting on regional issues so as not to - regional issues so as not to reflect— regional issues so as not to reflect as _ regional issues so as not to reflect as of _ regional issues so as not to reflect as of regional- reflect as of regional realities, _ reflect as of regional realities, and - reflect as of regional realities, and one i reflect as of regional realities, and one of| reflect as of regional- realities, and one of the demands— realities, and one of the demands issued - realities, and one of the demands issued against| realities, and one of the - demands issued against qatar in the 2017 — demands issued against qatar in the 2017 red _ demands issued against qatar in the 2017 red was _ demands issued against qatar in the 2017 red was that _ demands issued against qatar in the 2017 red was that he - demands issued against qatar in the 2017 red was that he be - the 2017 red was that he be shut— the 2017 red was that he be shut down _ the 2017 red was that he be shut down. so _ the 2017 red was that he be shut down. so it— the 2017 red was that he be shut down. so it is- the 2017 red was that he be. shut down. so it is important to see — shut down. so it is important to see how— shut down. so it is important to see how that _ shut down. so it is important to see how that coverage - shut down. so it is important to see how that coverage of. to see how that coverage of regional— to see how that coverage of regional issues— to see how that coverage of regional issues and - to see how that coverage of regional issues and of- regional issues and of neighbouring - regional issues and ofl neighbouring countries regional issues and of- neighbouring countries will change. _ neighbouring countries will change. if— neighbouring countries will change. ifat— neighbouring countries will change, if at all _ neighbouring countries will change, if at all once - neighbouring countries will change, if at all once nowi neighbouring countries will. change, if at all once now that the rep — change, if at all once now that the rep has _ change, if at all once now that the rep has been _ change, if at all once now that the rep has been resolved - change, if at all once now that the rep has been resolved as. change, if at all once now thati the rep has been resolved as of january— the rep has been resolved as of january of— the rep has been resolved as of january of this _ the rep has been resolved as of january of this year. _ the rep has been resolved as of january of this year. so - the rep has been resolved as of january of this year. so this - january of this year. so this is very— january of this year. so this is very n1uch_ january of this year. so this is very much tied _ january of this year. so this is very much tied to - january of this year. so this is very much tied to deeperj is very much tied to deeper dynamics— is very much tied to deeper dynamics of— is very much tied to deeper dynamics of regional- dynamics of regional competition- dynamics of regional competition where l dynamics of regional. competition where you dynamics of regional- competition where you have these — competition where you have these small— competition where you have these small countries- these small countries particularly— these small countries particularly the - these small countries particularly the uae i these small countries. particularly the uae and these small countries- particularly the uae and qatar trying — particularly the uae and qatar trying to— particularly the uae and qatar trying to project— particularly the uae and qatar trying to project power- particularly the uae and qatarl trying to project power through sports. — trying to project power through sports. their— trying to project power through sports, their investment - trying to project power through sports, their investment in - sports, their investment in media. _ sports, their investment in media, through _ sports, their investment in media, through their- sports, their investment in media, through their own. media, through their own stations— media, through their own stations and _ media, through their own stations and channels, i media, through their own - stations and channels, they're lruying — stations and channels, they're buying football _ stations and channels, they're buying football teams, - stations and channels, they're buying football teams, and i stations and channels, they're buying football teams, and it| buying football teams, and it is directed _ buying football teams, and it is directed to _ buying football teams, and it is directed to politics - buying football teams, and it is directed to politics back i is directed to politics back home. _ is directed to politics back home, regional— is directed to politics back home, regionaltensionsi is directed to politics back - home, regionaltensions and, home, regional tensions and, again. — home, regional tensions and, again. of— home, regionaltensions and, again, of course, _ home, regionaltensions and, again, of course, to - home, regionaltensions and, again, of course, to improvei again, of course, to improve their— again, of course, to improve their image _ again, of course, to improve their image in— again, of course, to improve their image in western - their image in western countries _ their image in western countries.— their image in western countries. . ,, . ,, countries. thank you, thank you so much- _ countries. thank you, thank you so much. you _ countries. thank you, thank you so much. you know, _ countries. thank you, thank you so much. you know, that - countries. thank you, thank you so much. you know, that is - so much. you know, that is as talking about golf state franchise of british brands, but, you know, let's now turn to a massive us brand that has survived on british stories, and if that's not a massive turn, i don't know what estimate darren stiles, you are the managing director and publisher of rolling stone uk edition, so what made you think that an all—american magazine would work over here right now? well, a number of factors, really, i think politically, not rolling stone is fundamentally a music magazine. but it is also always been political, sometimes with a small fee, sometimes of the big p, sometimes at the little pee, and always about film to become and always about film to become an in terms of how people consume television and music now on a volume previously unseen, the range of choice that exists. i think as a commentary piece, rolling stone has done an amazing job, 550,000 subscribers across the us c rolling stone every month, so, i think with the way that the magazine market has changed in the uk, music magazine markets in particular over the last year or 18 months, there has been some attrition, so i think that space has opened up for more generalist title, so, the number is point that way, i hope i am right. i the number is point that way, i hope i am right.— hope i am right. i have a lovely copy _ hope i am right. i have a lovely copy of _ hope i am right. i have a lovely copy of it - hope i am right. i have a lovely copy of it here, i hope i am right. i have a - lovely copy of it here, rolling stone uk, 695, comes out every two months. looking from the adverts, like it is sort of aimed at quite high—end moneyed readers. is that to you are aiming at. who is going to buy it? ., ., ., ., ., it? the average age of a rolling stone _ it? the average age of a rolling stone reader - it? the average age of a| rolling stone reader and it? the average age of a - rolling stone reader and the states is a1. and i think people who by paper magazines tend to be older because that was the habit at the time. i think younger people get their news and entertainment information now entirely digitally. information now entirely digitally-— information now entirely diuitall . ~ information now entirely diuitall. ~ digitally. do you think you can aet digitally. do you think you can get young _ digitally. do you think you can get young people _ digitally. do you think you can get young people off - digitally. do you think you can get young people off tiktok, i get young people off tiktok, off youtube to buy this? potentially yes, but i think our aspiration really is to serve the audience we know is there. q magazine closed last year at the peak of its power. it was during 200,000 copies a month, but even when it's finished, it was during 35 to a5,000 copies a month, and for a boutique publisher of r515, that's a great proposition. so if we can get anything close to that, as he said, it's premium prices on silk max documents a coffee table proposition, and i think that six people and that 35- a5 think that six people and that 35— a5 age bracket particularly well. 35- 45 age bracket particularly well. ~ . ., ., well. media editor of the guardian. _ well. media editor of the guardian, i— well. media editor of the guardian, i don't - well. media editor of the guardian, i don't know i well. media editor of the guardian, i don't know ifj guardian, i don't know if you've seen the magazine, but what are your thoughts on all of this clays but i think anybody launching a new publication at the moment is a brave person he looks brave, looks brave, courageous i think i would looks brave, courageous i think i would like _ looks brave, courageous i think i would like to _ looks brave, courageous i think i would like to know _ looks brave, courageous i think i would like to know how- looks brave, courageous i think i would like to know how much | i would like to know how much is sort — i would like to know how much is sort of— i would like to know how much is sort of going to be distinctively british and how much — distinctively british and how much is _ distinctively british and how much is going to be content from — much is going to be content from the _ much is going to be content from the us version, because, you know. _ from the us version, because, you know, they are quite different styles between the types — different styles between the types of publication. is types of publication. looking types of publication. is looking very british at the moment, paul mason... yeah, well 100% _ moment, paul mason... yeah, well 100% of — moment, paul mason... yeah, well 10094. of the _ moment, paul mason... yeah, well 100% of the launch - moment, paul mason... yeah, well 100% of the launch issue | well 100% of the launch issue has been _ well 100% of the launch issue has been generated in the uk. there — has been generated in the uk. there are. _ has been generated in the uk. there are, let me see, 15 editions— there are, let me see, 15 editions of rolling stone around _ editions of rolling stone around the world. the original us one — around the world. the original us one and 1a around the world. the original us one and 14 other is, australia, south korea, china, japan. — australia, south korea, china, japan, argentina, colombia, so on, japan, argentina, colombia, so on. and — japan, argentina, colombia, so on. and all— japan, argentina, colombia, so on, and all of that content goes — on, and all of that content goes into a big content pool, and — goes into a big content pool, and any— goes into a big content pool, and any licensee can take whatever you want from that pool— whatever you want from that pool at — whatever you want from that pool at any point. going forward, we have a licence that allows — forward, we have a licence that allows us — forward, we have a licence that allows us to take 50% of any addition _ allows us to take 50% of any addition from the us, and to be on that— addition from the us, and to be on that from overseas, but we have _ on that from overseas, but we have such _ on that from overseas, but we have such a strong music market here _ have such a strong music market here and — have such a strong music market here and film industry is that we will— here and film industry is that we will lead on british content.— we will lead on british content. . , . ., , ., , content. fabian, does fortunes to have a _ content. fabian, does fortunes to have a printed _ content. fabian, does fortunes to have a printed version, - content. fabian, does fortunes to have a printed version, i'm. to have a printed version, i'm afraid i don't know if. absolutely. it has several. it has a — absolutely. it has several. it has a global— absolutely. it has several. it has a global addition. - absolutely. it has several. it has a global addition. unlike what — has a global addition. unlike what darren— has a global addition. unlike what darren was _ has a global addition. unlike what darren was saying, - has a global addition. unlike what darren was saying, we | what darren was saying, we pretty— what darren was saying, we pretty much _ what darren was saying, we pretty much print _ what darren was saying, we pretty much print at - what darren was saying, we pretty much print at the - what darren was saying, we . pretty much print at the same magazine _ pretty much print at the same magazine throughout- pretty much print at the same magazine throughout the - pretty much print at the same . magazine throughout the world, i magazine throughout the world, i believe — magazine throughout the world, i believe. and _ magazine throughout the world, i believe. and it— magazine throughout the world, i believe. and it still— magazine throughout the world, i believe. and it still does- i believe. and it still does get — i believe. and it still does get to— i believe. and it still does get to millions _ i believe. and it still does get to millions of - i believe. and it still does| get to millions of readers, i believe. and it still does. get to millions of readers, as does — get to millions of readers, as does time~ _ get to millions of readers, as does time. so, _ get to millions of readers, as does time. so, it's _ get to millions of readers, as does time. so, it's not, - get to millions of readers, as does time. so, it's not, i- get to millions of readers, asi does time. so, it's not, i hear what— does time. so, it's not, i hear whatjan— does time. so, it's not, i hear what jan is— does time. so, it's not, i hear what jan is saying, _ does time. so, it's not, i hear what jan is saying, obviouslyi does time. so, it's not, i hear what jan is saying, obviously i think— what jan is saying, obviously i think time _ what jan is saying, obviously i think time used _ what jan is saying, obviously i think time used to _ what jan is saying, obviously i think time used to get - think time used to get something _ think time used to get something like - think time used to get - something like 5,000,000 readers _ something like 5,000,000 readers a _ something like 5,000,000 readers a week, _ something like 5,000,000 readers a week, it's - something like 5,000,000| readers a week, it's possible he gets— readers a week, it's possible he gets half— readers a week, it's possible he gets half of— readers a week, it's possible he gets half of that - readers a week, it's possible he gets half of that now, - readers a week, it's possible he gets half of that now, but it still— he gets half of that now, but it still does— he gets half of that now, but it still does get, _ he gets half of that now, but it still does get, you - he gets half of that now, but it still does get, you know, i he gets half of that now, buti it still does get, you know, in the seven— it still does get, you know, in the seven figures _ it still does get, you know, in the seven figures at - it still does get, you know, in the seven figures at least, i it still does get, you know, ini the seven figures at least, so, rolling — the seven figures at least, so, rolling stone. _ the seven figures at least, so, rolling stone, i— the seven figures at least, so, rolling stone, i gas— the seven figures at least, so, rolling stone, i gas looking i the seven figures at least, so, rolling stone, i gas looking at its from — rolling stone, i gas looking at its from an _ rolling stone, i gas looking at its from an american - its from an american perspective, - its from an american perspective, it- its from an american perspective, it has. its from an american perspective, it has a| its from an american - perspective, it has a huge name. _ perspective, it has a huge name. and _ perspective, it has a huge name, and it's— perspective, it has a huge name, and it's known- perspective, it has a huge name, and it's known fori perspective, it has a huge - name, and it's known for being a kind — name, and it's known for being a kind of— name, and it's known for being a kind of writer— name, and it's known for being a kind of writer is _ name, and it's known for being a kind of writer is magazine, i a kind of writer is magazine, so am — a kind of writer is magazine, soa~~~ right— a kind of writer is magazine, so a... right next— a kind of writer is magazine, so a... right next to - a kind of writer is magazine, so a... right next to very. a kind of writer is magazine, . so a... right next to very good luck— so a... right next to very good luck i_ so a... right next to very good luck i think— so a... right next to very good luck i think is _ so a... right next to very good luck i think is what _ so a... right next to very good luck i think is what we - so a... right next to very good luck i think is what we are - luck i think is what we are all saying — luck i think is what we are all saying i'm _ luck i think is what we are all saying. i'm afraid _ luck i think is what we are all saying. i'm afraid that- luck i think is what we are all saying. i'm afraid that is- saying. i'm afraid that is all we have _ saying. i'm afraid that is all we have time _ saying. i'm afraid that is all we have time for— saying. i'm afraid that is all we have time for today, - saying. i'm afraid that is all| we have time for today, but thank— we have time for today, but thank you _ we have time for today, but thank you very _ we have time for today, but thank you very much - we have time for today, but thank you very much to - we have time for today, but thank you very much to all. thank you very much to all of my guests _ thank you very much to all of my guests to— thank you very much to all of my guest— my guests to darren styles, vivian, my guests to darren styles, vivian. and _ my guests to darren styles, vivian, and it _ my guests to darren styles, vivian, and it jim _ my guests to darren styles, j vivian, and it jim watterson vivian, and itjim watterson that media show will be back next week at the same time. for today, thanks for watching. goodbye. hello again. most of us had a fine day on friday with plenty of sunshine around. it was certainly a beautiful end to the day in dumfries and galloway with the sun setting over the seas there on the horizon. now, we did briefly see a cool down in weather with this slightly fresher air coming down from the northwest, but this weekend, milder air is going to be pushing back in off the atlantic, and with that will come rising temperatures. so, on friday, actually, briefly, although it was cooler, temperatures got close to normal, 1a is average, actually, for october, it's been a very mild october so far. but actually this weekend, across the board, we will see those temperatures climbing two or three degrees celsius. and the milder air has actually already started to arrive in the southwest with thickening cloud. an odd spit of rain from that, 12 celsius for the first part of the saturday morning, contrast that with the cold air in the northeast, where parts of eastern scotland and northeast england have a frost in the countryside. now, for saturday morning, there will be a lot of cloud around first thing, a few showers for northern areas of scotland again. this cloud pushing eastwards across england could be thick enough to give an odd spit of rain, and through the afternoon, there is the threat of more general heavier rain moving into northern ireland, but that will arrive quite late in the day. it turns milder, 15 or 16 celsius quite widely, but it's scotland, we are still hanging onto that slightly cooler and fresher air. 10 celsius in aberdeen and 12 celsius for glasgow. now, saturday night, we will see a more active weather system move in bringing rain across northern ireland, some heavy rain in scotland. maybe a few spots for western parts of england and wales, but it is probably that the rain is going to be a little bit lighter an patchier nature here, and that takes us into sunday. a lot of cloud to start the day, still thick enough for an odd spit of rain. this is generally pushing eastwards with weather generally trying to improve and brighten as the day goes by, there will be a few sunny spells coming through from time to time. now, temperatures, mild again. we're looking at highs of 17 celsius in london and glasgow. and temperatures rising a little through the central belt of scotland, around 1a celsius for glasgow and edinburgh as well. into next week, the low pressure is firmly in charge, often going to be pretty windy, and we're going to see this very long weather front. this could bring some heavy prolonged outbreaks of rain, at the moment, it could be affecting the hills in wales, perhaps bringing some localised flooding, but otherwise very mild weather. could see temperatures up to 20 celsius in london on tuesday. you're watching bbc news. i'm rich preston. our top stories this hour: british police say the murder of a member of parliament has been declared an act of terrorism. sir david amess was stabbed to death while meeting his constituents in the south—east of england. you're watching bbc news. i'm rich preston. —— the police detained a 25—year—old man on suspicion of murder as politicians, including the uk prime minister borisjohnson paid their owns tributes. the reason i think people are so shocked and saddened is above all, he was one of the kindest, nicest, most gentle people in politics. in other news: the islamic state group has claimed responsibility for a suicide bomb blast that killed more than a0 people at a mosque in afghanistan. the us government has confirmed 8 november is the date when it'll be opening up its borders to fully vaccinated travellers.

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