hello, and welcome to our look ahead to what the papers will be bringing us tomorrow. with me are henry zeffman, chief political correspondent at the times, and lizzy buchan, political correspondent at the daily mirror. tomorrow's front pages, starting with... the fallout from the interview harry and meghan gave to oprah winfrey continues to dominate the front pages. the daily telegraph's headline claims that the us president joe biden has praised meghan�*s courage in disclosing her troubles. "what have they done" in big capital letters is the headline on the front page of the daily mail. the guardian says that the palace is in crisis following the devastating racism claims made by meghan in her interview with oprah winfrey. the i also carries the same claims as the guardian, while the times says the palace is in turmoil over meghan�*s racism claims. and "the war of the windsors", as the metro dubs it, dominates the front page of the metro. it carries a full—page black—and—white picture of the duke and duchess of sussex with the headline, "just the four of us now." the mirror's front page says that the palace faces the worst royal crisis in 85 years. "so sad it has come to this" is the headline on the front page of the daily express, with a picture of the queen. so let's begin. let's start with the times. 0nly let's start with the times. only one subject for the first 80% of our chat and the times starts with palace in turmoil over meghan�*s racism claims. should the palace respond? is racism claims. should the palace resond? , . , q racism claims. should the palace resond? , . , m , , respond? is really difficult because obviously the _ respond? is really difficult because obviously the palace's _ respond? is really difficult because obviously the palace's normal - respond? is really difficult because obviously the palace's normal go . respond? is really difficult because | obviously the palace's normal go to is to never explain, never complained and while they live their lives obviously very publicly, they also keep a huge amount of their personal and private lives away from the public eye. and so it's not normal for them to respond to this sort of thing, and actually that is one of the complaints that meghan made in the interview, was that there were stories about her circulating in newspapers around the world, that she said she was not allowed to rebut but the palace would not rebut for her. so i think all of the papers today allude to the fact that there are clearly very serious conversations going on in buckingham palace at the moment about how best they should respond to this. the times suggests that the queen". to this. the times suggests that the queen... there was a prepares them and that will be put out that kind of underlined how important harriet meghan are to the rule family and was very warm in its tone. apparently the times says the queen has said she does not want that relieved and wants more time to consider the response. so it's clear tonight that there are very serious conversations going on behind the palace walls. we conversations going on behind the palace walls-— palace walls. we say the palace never explains _ palace walls. we say the palace never explains that _ palace walls. we say the palace never explains that is _ palace walls. we say the palace never explains that is not - palace walls. we say the palace l never explains that is not strictly true. you recall after princess diana died, there was consternation amongst the papers that the flag had not come down to have stepped most of the queen did respond if you give a live broadcast on the eve of the funeral and actually to my real isolation very well received. so at some point when there is an allegation, the palace is out of touch, the queen herself dust tend touch, the queen herself dust tend to respond. find touch, the queen herself dust tend to reapond-— touch, the queen herself dust tend to resond. �* , ., to respond. and perhaps one reason wh the to respond. and perhaps one reason why the queen _ to respond. and perhaps one reason why the queen as _ to respond. and perhaps one reason why the queen as the _ to respond. and perhaps one reason why the queen as the times - to respond. and perhaps one reason why the queen as the times says i why the queen as the times says tomorrow— why the queen as the times says tomorrow seems to be taking a bit of time to— tomorrow seems to be taking a bit of time to consider how she responds, longer— time to consider how she responds, longer than — time to consider how she responds, longer than her courtiers expected her to— longer than her courtiers expected her to come i must beat so she can calibrate _ her to come i must beat so she can calibrate whether this is like diana. — calibrate whether this is like diana, where she was out of step with public— diana, where she was out of step with public opinion for a short while, — with public opinion fora short while, or— with public opinion for a short while, orwhether with public opinion for a short while, or whether something rather different _ while, or whether something rather different i— while, or whether something rather different. i think rightly or wrongly— different. i think rightly or wrongly the evidence we have seen a public— wrongly the evidence we have seen a public opinion so far in the uk is that it's — public opinion so far in the uk is that it's not _ public opinion so far in the uk is that it's not like diana, and actually— that it's not like diana, and actually there is sympathy to harry and meghan in a chunk of the public that does_ and meghan in a chunk of the public that does seem to be a minority. whether— that does seem to be a minority. whether that will change after the broadcast tonight, perhaps it may do a perhaps— broadcast tonight, perhaps it may do a perhaps that is one good reason why the _ a perhaps that is one good reason why the queen might want to take a bit why the queen might want to take a hit of— why the queen might want to take a bit of time... just how big the scale — bit of time... just how big the scale of— bit of time... just how big the scale of the crisis is, the turmoil as the _ scale of the crisis is, the turmoil as the times put it in the headline is before _ as the times put it in the headline is before deciding what the appropriate response should be. the dail appropriate response should be. daily mirror appropriate response should be. tie: daily mirror because the appropriate response should be. ti2 daily mirror because the queen is one of the few people left in the country as to what the mirror puts on its front page. worst rule crisis and 85 years, the application crisis which led to the queen's father to take the throne. he never was attracted to but he did so as george vi. was diana in 95 or not prince charles 94, it was actually in 1936. his speech in which he said at long last unable to say a few words of my own and i wonder if that is what diana and meghan did later in talking about their own position. 50 talking about their own position. sf we talking about their own position. 5r we have talking about their own position. 5f we have looked back to the abdication crisis because you know as you see i think a lot of the comparisons with what has been going on with harry and meghan rightly link into diana and what happened to her, especially of the because what happened to her is clearly very important to harry and impacts very much on his behaviour. he has alluded to it many times that he could not stand by and watch what happened to his mother happened to his wife as well. so that obviously has been really key but we look back really further on the 1930s, to a moment of real crisis for the monarchy. and i think it is really important to remember that the decisions that have been made have really serious consequences. and i think the queen posit response would be very whatever it is significant in this because it is a very serious moment. it is not as serious as the abdication obviously, but harry is a very significant member of the royal family and archie is as well and meghan so this is making the point that this is all kind of part of a long train of events.— that this is all kind of part of a long train of events. let's look at the daily mail. — long train of events. let's look at the daily mail, which _ long train of events. let's look at the daily mail, which has- long train of events. let's look at. the daily mail, which has questioned what have they done with the underlining of part of that question. when we look at that, is that the voice that the queen is waiting to hear from, that the voice that the queen is waiting to hearfrom, that that the voice that the queen is waiting to hear from, that sense of where some of the country might be? maybe. it's always hard to know what the queen _ maybe. it's always hard to know what the queen is thinking, impossible to know and _ the queen is thinking, impossible to know and that is arguably the problem _ know and that is arguably the problem. is her opaqueness. but i think— problem. is her opaqueness. but i think one — problem. is her opaqueness. but i think one of— problem. is her opaqueness. but i think one of the striking things in the interview is actually the affection that harry and meghan seem to feel_ affection that harry and meghan seem to feel for— affection that harry and meghan seem to feel for the queen that they frankly— to feel for the queen that they frankly don't seem to feel for others — frankly don't seem to feel for others in _ frankly don't seem to feel for others in their close immediate family~ — others in their close immediate family. not any more. sol others in their close immediate family. not any more. so i don't know— family. not any more. so i don't know if— family. not any more. so i don't know if that _ family. not any more. so i don't know if that will necessarily be grateful — know if that will necessarily be grateful for the sort of vituperation there is on the daily mail's _ vituperation there is on the daily mail's front page tomorrow, but that is how— mail's front page tomorrow, but that is how many people feel and i do think— is how many people feel and i do think absolutely to get back to your question— think absolutely to get back to your question that reflects the reality that this — question that reflects the reality that this is clearly not going to be an interview which is going to unite the country— an interview which is going to unite the country against the queen and the country against the queen and the royal— the country against the queen and the royal family, the institution that she — the royal family, the institution that she is head up. of the public opinion— that she is head up. of the public opinion is— that she is head up. of the public opinion is much more divided and people _ opinion is much more divided and people who are in the queen's order or rather— people who are in the queen's order or rather the — people who are in the queen's order or rather the anti—harry and meghan corner— or rather the anti—harry and meghan corner will— or rather the anti—harry and meghan corner will feel that very strongly and this— corner will feel that very strongly and this headline gives voice to that, _ and this headline gives voice to that, i— and this headline gives voice to that, i think. and this headline gives voice to that, ithink.| and this headline gives voice to that, i think-— and this headline gives voice to that, ithink. iwonder if there is a generational— that, ithink. iwonder if there is a generational divide _ that, ithink. iwonder if there is a generational divide here. - that, i think. i wonder if there is| a generational divide here. some that, i think. i wonder if there is - a generational divide here. some who were older than me is what i count as old will feel there is a hierarchy here and harry and meghan were in the mid—rank and they were always going to get fewer privileges than at william and charles and george who are in the direct line of succession and that there was a place for them and they should not speak out of turn. the queen has which is written for her and that's the view of the older brigade. the other brigade would say everyone is allowed to speak, no one should suffer from allowed to speak, no one should sufferfrom racism. do you allowed to speak, no one should suffer from racism. do you see allowed to speak, no one should sufferfrom racism. do you see it allowed to speak, no one should suffer from racism. do you see it is a generational divide? i suffer from racism. do you see it is a generational divide?— a generational divide? i think the 're a generational divide? i think they're certainly _ a generational divide? i think they're certainly an _ a generational divide? i think they're certainly an elementl a generational divide? i think. they're certainly an element of that. it's clear that harry and meghan have a huge amount of support among kind of younger people. i think they seem perhaps relevant, they are connected to causes that are important to lots of young people, they speak out about mental health and all sorts of things. and so i think that maybe they were sort of striking a tune in some way with younger people. and i think that idea of there being such a rigid hierarchy and people not having to suffer in silence and all of that i think he is not really the way that the younger generation feels that they want to live any more. and so i do feel there is an element of that in it. i think also that that is a separation, that separation between kind of being able to speak freely, having freedom within the royal family and duty and kind of the hierarchy of that is coolly something that was at the heart of what was meghan's issue within the family. she spoke about how she had been naive going into it, about how she had not really understood what the day—to—day life was, how it would all work. and so i do think that there is that gap between perhaps the sort of very rigid protocols that govern so much of the royal family and how it works and perhaps some of the attitudes of the younger generations. less perhaps some of the attitudes of the younger generations.— younger generations. less of the daily express _ younger generations. less of the daily express which _ younger generations. less of the daily express which also - younger generations. less of the daily express which also focuses| younger generations. less of the i daily express which also focuses on the queen with a rather reflective headline. when you look back at history, there was a rule when you wanted to criticise what was going on, he could criticise courtiers and bureaucrats but never the monarch themselves. it was always the monarch is badly advised. there was a code which you almost get a sense has been followed here. the formal rule couple did not criticise the queen herself but nevertheless the criticisms are of the organisation that she herself leads. and possibly has allowed to have people in it who speak a certain way. is there a sense that they were following this ancient code of criticise the advisers whenever the monarch? i think there probably was a bit of that _ think there probably was a bit of that. clearly harry does feel this lingering — that. clearly harry does feel this lingering affection. she is his grandmother. of course he does. but as you _ grandmother. of course he does. but as you suggest, it was a little bit strange — as you suggest, it was a little bit strange that he was saying the couple — strange that he was saying the couple will referring dismissively to their— couple will referring dismissively to their family, couple will referring dismissively to theirfamily, and it is couple will referring dismissively to their family, and it is their family. — to their family, and it is their family, small f is willis f, and they— family, small f is willis f, and they were _ family, small f is willis f, and they were calling them the firm. and saying _ they were calling them the firm. and saying it _ they were calling them the firm. and saying it operates in a terrible way, — saying it operates in a terrible way, it — saying it operates in a terrible way, it has no proper hr etc while ultimately— way, it has no proper hr etc while ultimately the royal family is run lry ultimately the royal family is run by the _ ultimately the royal family is run by the queen even at her age and her courtiers _ by the queen even at her age and her courtiers. they used to be called the golden triangle i think. of private — the golden triangle i think. of private secretaries to the queen, to the prince _ private secretaries to the queen, to the prince of wales, cabinet secretary and someone who was just moved _ secretary and someone who was just moved into— secretary and someone who was just moved into the current cabinet secretary — moved into the current cabinet secretary from working for prince william _ secretary from working for prince william and so is embroiled in all of this _ william and so is embroiled in all of this so — william and so is embroiled in all of this so i — william and so is embroiled in all of this. so i think harry and meghan were trying — of this. so i think harry and meghan were trying to target those sorts of mysterious faceless figures. but as you say, _ mysterious faceless figures. but as you say, there is something of a strangeness to sort of absolving queen— strangeness to sort of absolving queen of— strangeness to sort of absolving queen of it and i think we got a bit of that— queen of it and i think we got a bit of that this — queen of it and i think we got a bit of that this morning when 0prah said harry— of that this morning when 0prah said harry has— of that this morning when 0prah said harry hasjust asked of that this morning when 0prah said harry has just asked me to clarify that in— harry has just asked me to clarify that in the — harry has just asked me to clarify that in the comment he made about someone _ that in the comment he made about someone unnamed in the royal family saying _ someone unnamed in the royal family saying something very grim about the skin colour— saying something very grim about the skin colour of their unborn child, but it— skin colour of their unborn child, but it was— skin colour of their unborn child, but it was not the queen or prince philip _ but it was not the queen or prince philip i_ but it was not the queen or prince philip. i suspect other members of harry— philip. i suspect other members of harry potter and family are watered with the _ harry potter and family are watered with the same courtesy was not extended — with the same courtesy was not extended to them in terms of them being _ extended to them in terms of them being identified as not being that the culprit. being identified as not being that the culrit. , , being identified as not being that the culrit. ,, ., ~ ., . the culprit. less of the metro which throws things _ the culprit. less of the metro which throws things forward. _ the culprit. less of the metro which throws things forward. just - the culprit. less of the metro which throws things forward. just the - the culprit. less of the metro which throws things forward. just the four of us now is the picture accompanied by prince harry, meghan and the growing family. they have deals with a number of huge media companies. what do they become now, semi—former royals, celebrities, activists and we would need to categorise them? i think it is a tricky one to categorise it. i suppose they sort of moved towards being a kind of what you would imagine as american royalty, which is sort of the oprah when free