parliament was suspended over night after president emanuel macro made some controversial remarks targeting people who are not vaccinated. the government is trying to push through a bill that would make vaccination compulsory to access public venues. india's bracing for another wave of corona virus, as it's reported another high of more than $58000.00 new cases in 24 hours. that's twice the number seen only 4 days ago. only one 3rd were in new delhi and mom by tennis star, novak joclett, shes received a medical exemption to compete in the australian open. the tournament director says the play was not granted any special favors. jock adventures refused to reveal whether he has been vaccinated. protest as are on the streets who can succeed again despite several states of emergency orders. the president has accepted the government's resignation after violent protest spot, initially by high fuel prices. but what under cardella, i am, dear compatriots, i urge you once again to see reason and not to react to provocations from inside and outside. the euphoria of rallies and permissive nurse calls to a take office. spaces of civilian and military authorities are absolutely illegal. this is a crime followed by punishment. you are in a rocket sits and a rocky military base hosting us soldiers, although no casualties have been reported. several attacks on us troops in iraq had been attempted in recent days. they come on the 2nd anniversary of the killing of the iranian general cast them sil amani assassinated by the us in bagdad main suspects and the killing of the haitian president of an always as appears in a u. s. federal court. the 1st time, a former officer in columbia's military was extradited from panama. he's the 1st to face criminal charges. sammy has a news are for you from 15. g. we're all back from 10. g tomorrow. we'll see you then up next. it's the stream to stay with us here on alger sierra frank assessments. this crisis is continued to weaken luca shanker, even though perhaps he believed in the beginning the strength of informed opinions . i think politicians will now be under incredible pressure from their young people . that is one of the most of the things that come out of this critical debate. do you think an age should be facilitated? not choke? it's a great, it's a really simple question. let's give samuel tops. once the inside story on al jazeera, i i, as i me okay to day on the street, the story of nigerian spinning bronze is limited by the british in $1897.00, and now found in museums around the world. you can see some of these cultural writers behind me, not always made out of bronze, sometimes metal, or wood, or ivory. and they came from the kingdom opening. let me show you a maps you can see whether actually it, the southern part of nigeria is where the original kingdom opening is. many cities there. see that little red dot. and this is in southern nigeria, so we're not talking about the republic opening. but the kingdom of the name, now we have that right. let's get a good night started. we often hear the idea that restitution is an attack upon museums that this is iconoclasm, or as in fact restitution is already a part of the normal operation of museums in america and europe in the cases of nazi lutes, and in the cases of indigenous ancestral human remains for the very different historical circumstances of african objects that were taken unto colonialism. increasingly, the conversation is happening in between audiences and trustees and arises who think it's time that this issue is addressed to let's get this conversation started with, i guess joining us. you have a no t a we have barnaby. we have neil, it is good to see you gentlemen. in the p a. introduce yourself to stream audience angel connection to the bronze this year with all and just based in the area been working with the government the trust to get back to me as young stuff us, which is being designed by david or j brunley . it's a long story, you know, to get back to it in just a moment. bon of a nice to have you on the stream. tell everybody your connection to the been a bonded i'm a journalist and also i was a b, b, c correspondent in nigeria. many years ago, and i've just written a book called loot britain and the been in bronze is and which i tell the tale of how the bronze is were made in the west african kingdom. how and why the british took them in $897.00. what happened to them since and the very current active debate, which we're talking about this evening. what should happen to them now? hello, now you've been making headlines around the loud. you are a hot topic in the wild tele audience fly. and sam neil curtis, i'm head of museums and special collections of the university of aberdeen in scotland. and yes, we're at the university and i am city would return my been in brahms, about 4 weeks ago. no. no was purchased by the inverse in 1957. yet to have nail barnaby and an o t. and also you audience watching right now on youtube. you can jump into the comics section to be part of today's program in o t. i did a very, very simple explanation of what the benign bonds is actually ah, but there is a much deeper cultural significance as somebody who comes from adam state. how would you explain what these striking objects actually truly mean respond to her or symbol, or contra heritage on the objects were made to proper made for different reasons or personal watch or what is what origin holt, us and some were made for keeping memory or story or to the law stories on history and all those were made all into girls. and so the products to go to legal history or heritage symbol all of our civilization just lost it on yours. for now, for me, i'm just going to show some of the pictures that are in your book lute and it starts off with this campaign and to go to benign city because the brits want to do trade with the oboe, the king and, and the over is not that keen on doing so, so we, we start off with what is the team who went out to benign city? can you talk us through some of these pictures and, and why they're important. these are some of the senior officers of the punitive expedition. they're sitting on board a boat in liverpool, and they're on their way to bed in the city, the british empire. at that time, the pre eminent global power able to assemble a force very quickly they bring in ships from cape town, from malta, from across the globe. they march into bending city. they believe that the, the king of been in city, the british say, has not been observing the terms of an earlier treaty, which he had been co asked probably into, into agreeing to some years earlier. and they raise, been in to the ground, they have an overwhelming military force. they have the maximum gun, which is a, a devastating weapon and the bed empire, a proud empire replaced the cultural achievement for many hundreds of years has, has no chance here. you can see british offices in the orbit palace in the courtyard, and this is just some of the lute which they took, as you say, the banding bronze is. but of course, great piles of tasks as well. these are, i suppose, iconic, i suppose, infamous at images, and they help cap show why the looting of bennett city has become emblematic of the whole question of colonial due to dog. because the bed and bronzes were so splendid and because the manner in which they were taken was so agree just so relatively recent and so well documented. now until quite recently, of your university had a been in bonds that you are. you are planning on keeping it was part of your collection and that changed. can you tell us that story? why it changed? i think this is something happening over many years and gradually, i mean, obviously barely got on to the 1000 ninety's was arguing for the return of any problems. it's so it's not something that's new and it's i think for, for me from the 2 thousands we started being involved in re fax creation to north america and healing. and i think was become so clear as that instead of seeing these things as things are about relationships that are about people, the matter tremendously to people from whom they were collected. um, so i think we started seeing our collections slightly differently, seeing it as a being about relationships and about relationships in the present as much as the past that we wanted to address that so. so we, we realize that, you know, we, we had this, this one been in bronze that was, was bought by the university in the 1950 s as an example of african art. i'm not to was on display in 960 celebrate the independence of nigeria. but the more we thought about it more, we realized that yes, we might have had legal title to it. but really, given the way in which the binding city was destroyed and the material was looted, we really couldn't say that we had model title. so it really clashed with the, the university's values of being international, being inclusive, being respectful. and so out of that really think very clearly, very logically came the feeling that we should return was a run through or if you with a question, this is for, for it seems obvious, i should be much closer to that kind of origin. and i think response well yes, come home, so we can tell our stories to our people. what been deprived of access to them for hundreds of years ago. crypto. mary, mary, a says and i'm going to get this one to you now. why not set up infrastructure? the countries help invest in the preservation of their own treasures, their own culture. that's all i think the know that's very important, that people should be able to see their own culture. and i think, you know, there are advantages having things elsewhere in the world, but i think the, the important. busy thing is that the power, the decision to decide what happens lives with the people who these things belong to. i am picking up, hold on one more thing here. barnaby. i'm going to share this with you. this is from add them up. they, if they all return, they will not be present. we don't have adequate iran museum. so adam are, is nigerian. we are not known for maintaining and preserving historical artifacts. this is something you looked into. you went to benito city. what did you find? well, i would say that the debate about the problems within nigerian museums is carried out with much more kanda and understanding within nigeria itself than it is in europe. and this is an important point. and the all could fax for nigeria in this story, nigerian museums already have a very fine collection of ben bronzes. if you go to the national museum and labels, unfortunately not many of them are on display. and not many people, illegals, go and see them. having said that, i think there is now a golden opportunity to make things better and to repair about situation than in not is the right man. you should be done in 15 right now. there is assembled something all the of the dream team, a governor godwin obaskey who's really committed a star architect is naughty, has told use of david jai and the, the international support, the international sympathy is. yeah. so this is a golden opportunity for nigerians on the ground to get it right. and that is indicative of how the world is changing. if you like, the fate of the been in bronze is, will be determined as much by the acts of ki nigerian as, as the consciences of western curators. and that is something very important to say . and i see i'm just looking at here, read your picture with you and a david address and who as designed so extraordinary buildings around the well having a discussion. if i saw a fly in the war here, what, what i hear or hear, we're talking about the significance of the mask. the combo we're, you know, which is in the british museum, are going to revision into the significance of what i've done. explain how important his job is developmental and they came down to the beginning, not from the 16th century ago, comments to symbol of law striving excellence on your chip, mental or civilization. i'm wondering here because there is a real conversation that was happening about well, if we give the venue bronsels back to nigeria, you don't have the resources to look after them. we won't look after them. what happened instances where a lot of money was spent getting them back from different parts of europe between the 19 fifties and they ended up back in europe for them. and i don't how you will show people. i knew that that won't happen again or year. no, no, no, it was not going to happen again because i don't know a plan in place to build a global standard. ms. young dome is young with us and this is ms. young is being built on the an independent trust legacy which the original trust which has the key stake or the trust you are or the pulse real pulse of been in the state government. i have the n c m m, which national shown on the german once on the board of trustees. this legacy research on trust is an independent trust. the structure, governors talk talk with you. response on build the museum and ensure that it is built according to global standards. been designed by, i think the j was only renown sheet showing the safety of the artifacts we are sure under displayed on preserve, according to the best practice. you know, not forget this, i've been here. oh, it's under the other for the were looted on so there was a fear brought about those to the city, hundreds of departments and the national museum. there were and what did you see just this afternoon? i went to vote in was young and i still saw bronze is i reason wood carvings all been sold properly. but then what, what i think is what people look into what classrooms young here in been in your domains. you almost are going to us, which will receive a kid on display. there's a to parks according to my best practice. so there's no fear of this gotten of the government to go to know bassetti and those dates is very focused on this. the legacy research on trust i is an independent trust, which i'm sure there's no problem that says you have to get that the name bronze is back to as well possible them. so that involves some cancellation. i want to tina about because they should have an listen to this comment festival and i just come off the back of it immediately. i'm interested in your take days. are you dynamic? both in the global south and in the global north. former colonies are strengthening them, you see may infrastructure, and they are developing policies to re div objects that were lost in voluntarily during the colonial era. former colonizers, on the other hand, are slowly moving to a point where they are willing to re betty aid such object. now the challenges to whether former colonies and former colonizers are able to reduce them, which will distrust and to do dialogue on the issue. on an equivalent level, only then some of the injustice committed in the colonial era can be undone. and i think what's really important is this discussion was coming together the consensus, it's being built. and i think in a week i feel that we've played a part in building that collaboration with the partners that are not here has been talking about, i think is really important. we don't see this as a sort of oppositional thing. that it's something where we, you know, we come into with good intent and then we can, we can achieve good things. i will talk to all british woods and we asked them if they would be part of this program. barnaby. they sent us a statement in sad, it's a very long statement, but let's have a look at it. and then i'll just pull out a couple of things that really struck us here on the stream. so we'll put that up on the screen. everybody say you can actually see that and, and this is where the british museum are coming from, or they have some difficulty, which i know you, you'll be able to explain. but they say we believe the strength for the british museum collection resides in its breadth and depth, allowing millions of visitors and understanding of the cultures of the world and how they connect over time, where the thing trade, migration conquest or peaceful exchange. we're talking about conquest right here. so barnaby, that sounds to me like they're not really going to give them. the bronze is to this beautiful museum that will happen in the southern part of nigeria. that doesn't sound to me like they're going to hand them over. what did you find when you went there to talk to them about this? well, there's a lot i could say about the british museum. i think when i started out on this project i, i felt like a lot of people that it was that a very, you know, self assured, possibly even our institution which didn't feel it had to answer for itself. and towards the end i came said instead as as a ra divided institution, an institution which is almost paralyzed by this problem and doesn't quite know what to say, and hence it's not on typical that they've given you a press release and they haven't appeared in this program, the british museum does have a story to tell. it doesn't always succeed in getting it across. they are constrained in a way that needs to see in aberdeen for example, is not there is something called a british museum act of 1963, which makes it impossible for the british muse into the accession that museum speak for the handover in a permanent way items from its collection, with a few exceptions which, which don hicks mentioned at the beginning of the program to do not seal and not see taken luton human body parts. in general terms, it's very difficult for the british museum to do things back forever without a change to the law, and that would require an act of parliament. and it's difficult to see this current, british conservative government going down that route. the british museum does have a lot of leeway, however, over loans and within the bending dialogue group, which is a group of museums which are talking about this thing. they've indicated a willingness to lead back a specified number of bed in bronze is and they haven't, they haven't even stipulated which ones within their collection. they haven't, they haven't ruled out any objects, but there is a potential car crash for the british museum. i have to say, which is the only other museums in the band in dial group. it's not inconceivable that they will give back their bed in bronzes and the british museum will end up loaning. but it's been a bronson now that we're lonely. su. yes, people, his art has been stolen, looted and they seem to be having to negotiate, getting it back. how do you feel about that? this is why im and the universities decision was for an unconditional return. we didn't have moral title, so i think our decision is very straightforward. i think there's one thing i would take out museum statement, i think is interesting. but it shows about this ability of objects to tell stories about connections of people around the world. and i think it would be really good if we were able to lend scottish things to ben in city so that, that, that's a mutual lender can go on. i think it might be nice if we could, but maybe some time borrow some bending. bronze is from, from bending city. and i think there's a, there could be a lot more flow between institutions rather than focusing too much on, on ownership. but i think in this case, for the decision of ownership was quite simple. and i told you in that once made my jaw drop, when you were suggesting an exchange of bidding bronzes is some of the greatest out that europe has ever produced. what were you suggesting that exchange should be? am i to go ahead? no. what i was saying was that this to parts belong to us still is imperative. another issue that's the ownership of ours should be accomplished. they belong to us. now, when the machine has been established and occupied, give it back to us. then like nila said, we can have this exchange programs where we log all onto parks to any global ms young. and then also learning console or to also show in a more, you know, system is something that is published within the museum sister. well, we are going to start learning items loan to pass, you know, so it's to be clear that the owner of this artifact the mom to us and then we can move them to you and also ask for walks, we belong to you to belong to ross sure, and on resumes here. been arrow and swelling. all our follow right now, i want to visit one more place. and this is the way we could do it. so digitally, the a digital painting project because a lot of creative thought about how do we share our arts around the world universally. and this is one way, have a look, have a lesson. believe is a project designed to create an online catalogue, does condense, benito looter in to serving and globally simulated between it in at $7.19. this projects whoop and it was have an overview of d. no, hold on, just a little in, in, in the to 97. the 7 is not a substitute for patricia, but again, it's one of the stairs that has been taking the duration towards ensuring restoration . additional building objects, sentiment i've got the sa kinley short amount of time left in this program, but i want to ask you just briefly in a thoughts why you think this movement for the return of the been influences is happening right now. neil, go ahead. well, i think there's lots things, i don't think many, many museum curators are no thinking, as i say about music objects as relationships sermons mean a huge change in the people working in museums. i think there are many, there's much more thinking about the history of collections. and much more willingness to, to listen to the people associated with objects. so i think the, the world has shifted in many different ways, and i think we're coming together as barney's barnaby said to sort of golden moment . i only, i've got 45 seconds. i know you don't need that long. go ahead. was this movement happening now? while point, some breeze specific political things. president macro france went to west africa in 2017. he made a re exciting and unexpected speech saying this cannot carry on. a report came out which pertain to french museums, but it sent shock waves across british and german museums. and then even more recently, black lives matters exploded in the united states. in the summer of 2020, there was about police brutality in europe. it seems to be all about the colonial legacy, and that's a very critical thinking. what year for or if the benign funds is all around the world by along to nigeria, what year will that be? make a prediction? oh said between now and 2024. 02 years, ah for sure for them and they are, some of them is ha, i love that and no ca, barnaby niel, you to was thank you so much for being part of this conversation. now you know about the been in front of you or see headlights or of the time about them. have a look here on my laptop. you may not be out to see them in person, but you can absolutely visit digital benign, reconnecting, royal art, treasures. and so watching everybody and that will be available next year. and so everybody see you next time of the stream. ah, for the silence has been distinct. ah, beneath this eden ah, is one of scandinavia largest iron or deposits. and it's driving a wedge between those seeking wealth and those defending their way of life. gallop witness documentary on it. there is no channel that covers world news like we do, we revisit places the state, i'll just euro really invest in that. and that's a privilege. as a journalist, americans are increasingly saying authoritarianism might not be so bad. there were several steps along the way where the chain of command, if you'd like to cover what your take on why they've gotten this so raw. that to me is political malpractice, the bottom line on us politics and policy and the impact on the world on al jazeera . mm. me each and every one of us have got a responsibility to change our personal space for the matter a we could do this experiment and if by diversity could increase just a little bit, that wouldn't be worth doing. anybody had any idea that it would become a magnet, louise and credit be ready for women to get 50 percent representation. and the constituent assembly here in getting these people to pick up the collect the thing to get the same. the re saying this extremely important service that they provide to the city i, we, we need to take america to trying to bring people together and trying to deal with people who can left behind. oh this is al jazeera. ah, hello, i'm sammy's. i dan, this is ben hughes out live from dell coming up in the next 60 minutes. nationwide internet blackouts in catholic, stan is the country's president vows a tough response time to government protests, hong kong bands. flights from 8 countries, including the u. s. and the u. k and australia grapples with an outbreak of the on the kron.

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