nearly a 3rd were in new delhi and moved by both cities of curfews and other restrictions . hong kong has binding flights from 8 countries, including australia, u. s, and the u. k. 2 battles rising cove with 19 cases. it is also imposing a raft of new restrictions from friday, including shutting entertainment venues, jims and clubs on till you go gun gun, back out. i've already given the very dire situation of the pandemic. we have to grasp very critical moment. we have to contain depend demik to ensure that there will not be a major outbreak in the community again 5. now i think we are realizing omicron is a highly transmissible variant. so if we, when we will be able to contain the spread of our micron in society, the measures i'm going to announce our may be the most decisive rapid targeted and comprehensive. we have had for the past 2 years and got tennis. don over joker, which has received a medical exemption to compete in the australian open. the tournament, has strict coven 19 vaccination requirements, but it's direct us as joke which has not been granted any special favor. the player has refused to reveal whether he's been vaccinated, but last year said he was opposed to catholic stones. president has accepted the government's resignation enough to protest against the price of fuel wasn't 200 people have been arrested for attacking government buildings. a rocket has hit an iraqi military base hosting us soldiers, although no casualties have been reported. it happened near baghdad international airport that been several attempted attacks on us troops in iraq in recent days. they come on the 2nd anniversary of the killing of top rating, general awesome. so the money that was arrested by the united states in baghdad, a crowds there are preparing for another day of commemoration. yet to date with headlines, more news coming up here on out as her right after the st. i've not ah ah al jazeera where ever you are. oh, i as in the okay to day on the street, the story of nigerian spinning bronze is limited by the british in 1897, and now founding museums around the world. you can see some of these cultural treasures behind me, not always made out of bronze, sometimes metal, or wood, or ivory. and they came from the kingdom opening. let me show you a maps you can see where the actually is. the southern part of nigeria is where the regional kingdom opening is many cities that see that little red dot. and this is in southern nigeria, so we're not talking about the republic of daneen, but the kingdom of the nene. now we have that right. let's get the good bait started. we often hear the i did 30 restitution is an attack upon museums that this is iconoclasm or as in fact restitution is already a part of the normal operation of museums in america and europe in the cases of nazi lutes, and did the cases of indigenous ancestral human remains for the very different historical circumstances of africa and objects that were taken unto colonialism. increasingly, the conversation is happening in between audiences and trustees and arises who think it's time that this issue is addressed. so let's get this conversation started with i guess, doing as we have notes here. we have barnaby. we have neil, it is good to see you gentlemen. in o t. i introduce yourself to our stream audience and your connection to the pin bronzes. early in august, you all, i'm an artist based in nigeria in city. are you working with the government on a legacy research on trust to get a young was young? what, what started are us which was being designed by, or you can see british officers in the arbors palace in the courtyard. and this is just some of the loot which they took. are they, as you say, are the ban bronzes. but of course, great piles of tasks as well. these are, i suppose, iconic, i suppose infamous air images. and they help capture why the looting of benny city has become emblematic of the whole question of colonial looted art. because the bedding roses were so splendid. and because the manner in which they were taken was so i agree just so relatively recent and so well documented neil until quite recently of your university had a been in bonds that you are. you are planning on keeping. it was part of your connection and that changed. can you tell us that story and why it changed? i think this is something happening over many years and gradually, i mean, obviously burning around to the 1000 ninety's was arguing for returned. any problems is so it's not something that's new and it's i think for, for me from the 2 thousands we started being involved in re fax creation to north america and healing. and i think was become so clear as that instead of seeing these things as things are about relationships that are about people, the matter tremendously to people from whom they were collected. um, so i think we started seeing our collections slightly differently, seeing it as a being about relationships and about relationships in the present as much as the past that we wanted to address that so. so we, we realize that, you know, we, we had this, this one been in bronze that was, was bought by the university in the 1950 s as an example of african art. i'm not to was on display in 960 celebrate the independence of nigeria. but the more we thought about it more, we realized that yes, we might have had legal title to it really given the way in which the pending city was destroyed. and the material was looted, we really couldn't say that we had model title. so it really clashed with the university's values of being international, being inclusive, being respectful. and so out of that really think very clearly, very logically came the feeling that we should return was a through or if you with a question, this is for, for it seems obvious, i should be much closer to that kind of origin and how to respond well, yes, come home so we can tell our stories to our people working, deprived of access to them for hundreds of years ago. crypto. mary, mary, a says and i'm going to get this one to you now. why not set up infrastructure? the countries help invest in the preservation of their own treasures, their own culture. i don't believe that's all i think the, you know, that's very important that people should be able to, to see their own culture. and i think, you know, there are advantages having things elsewhere in the world. but i think the important thing is that the power, the decision to decide what happens lives with the people who these things belong to. i am picking up, hold on one more thing here. barnaby, i'm going to share this with you. this is from adam up. they, if they all return, they will not be present. we don't have adequate iran museum, so adam are, is nigerian. we are not known for maintaining and preserving historical artifacts. this is something you looked into, you went to benito safety. what did you find? well, i would say that the debate about the problems within nigeria museums is carried out with much more kanda and understanding within nigeria itself than it is in europe. and this is an important point, and the all could fax for nigeria in this story, nigerian museums already have a very fine collection of band and bronzes. if you go to the national museum and labels. unfortunately not many of them are on display. and not many people, illegals go and see them. having said that, i think there is now a golden opportunity to make things better and to repair about situation than in not is, is the right man. you should be. i mean, right now there is assembled something all the of the dream team, a governor godwin obaskey who's really committed a star architect denotie has told use of david to july and the, the international support, the international sympathy is. yeah. so this is a golden opportunity for nigerians on the ground to get it right. and that is indicative of how the world is changing. if you like, the fate of the bet in bronze is, will be determined as much by the acts of ki nigerian as, as the consciences of western curators. and that is something very important to say . and i see i'm just looking at here, read your picture with you and a david address and who as designed so extraordinary buildings around the well having a discussion. if i saw a fly in the war here, what, what i hear or hear, we're talking about the significance of the mask. the combo we're, you know, which is in the british museum, are going to be shown a little into the significance of what i've done. explain how important his job is developmental can. it came down to the beginning, not from the 16th century ago, comments to symbol of law striving excellence on your chip, mental or civilization. i'm wondering here because there is that will conversation that was happening about well if we give the veney bounces back to nigeria, you don't have the resources to look at them. look after them. that happened instances where a lot of money was spent getting them back from different parts of europe, between the 950. and they ended up back in europe again. notice how you reassure people, can you? but that won't happen again, or, you know, no, it was still going to happen again because now i plan in place to build a global kind of ms young. the ms young and this is being built on an independent trust legacy was originally trust, which had been key stakeholder trusts are real and also been in the government and how the n c m. n. national comes from wonderment on the board of the trustees. this legacy research on trust is an independent trust structure, government, which will respond and build museum and show that it is built into all scanners. it's been designed by j was molly right now. so you can show the 50 of the. ready show and it will be displayed and present according to about best practice. ok, this is for the were looted and so they were brought to result in, in, in the national museum there for anybody to see just this off. i went to vote in was young and i saw runs is i reason wood carvings all been stalled probably was thing is with developing to walk lawson's young here in been in the jungle, was never going to us, which will receive kick on display. there's a to parks, according to law, best practice. so there's no fear of this the gotten of the government or got no varsity of and those late is very focused on this legacy research on trust. i is an independent trust with shows no less says you have to get their name. bronze is back to as well, personal them. so that involves some negotiation i want to t knew about because they should have only said to this comment festival, and i just come off the back of it immediately. i'm interested in your take days, a new dynamic, both in the global south and in the global north. former colonies are strengthening them. you see may infrastructure, and they are developing policies to re div objects dead for lost involuntarily. during the colonial era. former colonizers, on the other hand, i slowly moving to a point where they are willing to re betsy aid such object. now, the challenges to whether former colonies and former colonizers are able to reduce them, which will distrust and to dialogue on the issue. on an equivalent level, only den, some of the injustice committed in the colonial era can be undone. now, alexa, i think what's really important is this discussion is coming together, the consensus, it's being built. and i think in a week i feel that we've played a part in building that collaboration with the partners that are not here has been talking about, i think is really important. we don't see this as a sort of oppositional thing. that it's something where we, you know, we come in to with good intent and then we can, we can achieve good things. i will talk to all british rules and we asked them if they would be part of this program. barnaby. they sent us a statement in sad, it's a very long statement, but let's have a look at it. and then i'll just pull out a couple of things that really struck us here on the stream. so we'll put that up on the screen. everybody say you can actually see that, and this is where the british museum are coming from and they have some difficulty which i know you. you'll be able to explain. but they say we believe the strength for the british museum collection resides in its breadth and depth, allowing millions of visitors and understanding of the coaches of the world and how they connect over time, where the thing trade, migration conquest or peaceful exchange. we're talking about conquest right here. so barnaby, that sounds to me like they're not really going to give them even bronzes to this beautiful museum that will happen in the southern part of nigeria. that doesn't sound to me like they're going to hand them over. what did you find when you went there to talk to them about this? well, there's a lot i could say about the british museum. i think when i started out on this project i, i felt like a lot of people that it was that a very, you know, self assured, possibly even our institution which didn't feel it had to answer for itself. and towards the end i came said instead as as a ra divided institution, an institution which is almost paralyzed by this problem and doesn't quite know what to say, and hence it's not on typical that they've given you a press release and they haven't appeared in this program is the british museum does have a story to tell. it doesn't always exceed in getting it across. they are constrained in a way that needs to see in aberdeen for example, is not there is something called a british museum act of 1963, which makes it impossible for the british museum to d. accession that you didn't speak for the handover in a permanent way, items from its collection, with a few exceptions which, which don hicks mentioned at the beginning of the program to do not seal and not see taken luton human body parts. in general terms, it's very difficult for the british museum to do things back forever without a change to the law, and that would require an act of parliament. and it's difficult to see this current, british conservative government going down that route. the british museum does have a lot of leeway, however, over loans and within the bending dialogue group, which is a group of museums which are talking about this thing. they've indicated a willingness to lead back a specified number of bed and bronze is and they haven't, they haven't even stipulated which ones within their collection. they haven't, they haven't ruled out any objects, but there is a potential car crash for the british museum. i have to say, which is the only other museums in the bed in dial group. it's not inconceivable that they will give back their bed in bronzes and the british museum will end up loaning. but it's been a bronson now that we're lonely. su. yes, people, his art has been stolen, looted, and they sing to having to negotiate, getting it back. how do you feel about that? i think this is why in the universities decision was for an unconditional return. we didn't have moral title, so i think, you know, our decision read a straight forward. i think there's one thing i would take out. museum statement, i think is interesting. but it shows about this ability of objects to tell stories about connections of people around the world. i think it would be really good if we were able to lend scottish things to banning city so that that, that's a mutual lender can go on. i think it might be nice if we could, but maybe sometime borrow some bending bronze is from, from bending city. and i think there's a, there could be a lot more flow between institutions rather than focusing too much on, on ownership. but i think in this case, for the decision of ownership was quite simple. and i told you in that once made my jaw drop, when you were suggesting an exchange of bidding, bronze is some of the greatest out that you has ever produced. what were you suggesting? the exchange should be? am i to, i go ahead no. what i was saying was that this works belong to us. so it's imperative. another issue that's the owner of ours should be clear as published. they belong to us. now, when the machine has been established and occupied, give it back to us. then like nila said, we can have this exchange programs where we log all onto parks to any global ms young. and then also learning console or to also show in a more, you know, system southerners publish within the museum sister. well, we're going to start learning items loan to pass. you know, so it should be clear that the ownership of this artifact belong to us. and then we can move them to you and also ask for walks, we belong to you to belong to ross sure. and on resumes here in been arrow and swearing. all our follow right now, i want to visit one more place. and this is the way we could do it. so digitally, the, a digital panini project because i lots of creative thoughts about how do we share our arts around the world universally. and this is one way, have a look, have a lesson, believe is a project designed to create an online catalogue that connects believe the router in isn't into serving and globally circulated between it in at 7 and 1930. this for years. whoop. and it was have an overview o d, no on just a little in, in, in it, in a to 7. the 7 is not a substitute for patricia. but again, it's one of the stairs that has been taking the duration to ensure interstitial additional been objects. gentlemen, i've got the sa kinley short amount of time left in this program, but i want to ask you just briefly in a thoughts why you think this movement for the return of the been influences is happening right now. neil, go ahead. i think there's lots of things, i think many, many museum curators are no thinking, as i say about music objects, as relationships sermons mean a huge change in the people working in museums. i think there are many, there's much more thinking about the history of collections and much more willingness to, to listen to the people associated with objects. so i think the world has shifted in many different ways, and i think we're coming together as barney's barnaby said to sort of golden moment . i only, i've got 45 seconds. i know you don't need that long. go ahead. was this movement happening now? while points embrace specific political things, president, macro france, went to west africa in 2017. he made a very exciting and unexpected speech saying this cannot carry on. a report came out which pertain to french museums, but it sent shock waves across british and german museums. and then even more recently, black lives matters, exploded in the united states. in the summer of 2020, there was about police brutality in europe. it seems to be all about the colonial legacy. and that a very critical thinking, what year for, or the benign funds is all around the world by along to nigeria, what year will that be? make a prediction oh said between now and 2024. 0 yes. oh for sure for them. and they are so often ha, i love that and no ca, barnaby niel, you to was. thank you so much for being part of this conversation. now, you know about the been in front of your see headlights or of the time about them. have a look here on my laptop. you may not be out to see them in person, but you can absolutely visit digital bernini, reconnecting royal art, treasures. and so watching everybody and that will be available next year. and so everybody see you next time of the stream. ah, the listening post cuts through the noise like full peanut competing, now the monday tools being used to perpetuate those completely separate things spin from fuck all 3 versions of the story and some element of the truth. but the whole story is, remains and unpacking the stories you're being told. it's not a science story at all. it's a story about politics. the listening post your guide to the media on a, jesse, you know, the latest news as it breaks a new bed. it added a voice of these giant, dumb throb, carving more moving power. these being able to extract more gold more quickly with detail recovery everywhere you look, there is destruction who survive your talent like will never be the same again from them, from around the world. he fell to the ground and cried out. i'm going to prison. the question the jury has to decide now. should she ah in mm hm. mm whole. ah. hong kong ban's flights from 8 countries including the u. s. u. k in the us, trailer is a grapples with an outbreak of the oma cron corona barnes. very for god's sake, please take advantage of what's available. please. as you, as president joe biden tells americans there is no excuse to being unvaccinated. ah, again on the clock, this is out 0 live from doha also coming.

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