a small town where you enter the walls. after tea was buildings after buildings, it is a sprawling 30 kilometer long complex where we were given rear access, we were able to visit the cells. some of the cells were thought about commanders who are with the showed us wear, their leaders were held where they were tortured extensively, and where they gave a test to me, which was quite disturbing. but they say that they are happy that they are visiting this jail once again. they say that they are okay with what happened. they say that they have forgiven the people they will not forget, but they will not seek revenge from not just the guys, but from allied forces as well. heads of state from around the world have been addressing the you in general assembly in new york. keenan speeches warned about the pandemic afghanistan, climate change. us president joe biden delivered his 1st address to the global body . libya's eastern base parliament has passed him no confidence vote in the unity government for the prime minister says he'll continue to lead the caretaker administration at the votes. is a new blow to you and back peace efforts. 3 months ahead of selections. us border patrol agents have been condemned to after and elses are a video that went viral, showed them on horseback, pushing back migrants. nation says the white house policy of deporting people from haiti could be a violation of international law. thousands who crossed into the united states from mexico be camping under a bridge in the board of ton of del river. in texas. more people have been forced from their homes after a new volcanic convent blew open on one of the spain's canary islands. rivers of love have been flowing across la palmer since interruption on sunday. more than 190 homes have been destroyed. headlines, more news coming up paradoxes. they're at right after inside store. after 16 years at the helm, angular macalucio 2nd damn is one of germany's most popular chancellor with his christy and democratic struggling and the race to replace where the resurgent social democratic party and agreeing to making headway who will emerge in front and become germany's new leader special coverage on al jazeera, it was seen as a hero of their one, didn't get aside the whole recess. the beginner will now spend the next 25 years in jail for terrorism. what led to the verdict and did his criticism of the president? so i wrote it a ah ah, walk into the program, i'm in, ron kon, from eli poll recess, a beginner is a hero. the former who told manager saved the lives of more than 1200 people by giving them shelter during the 19941 been genocide. the story was celebrated and the hollywood film a hotel or wander, says then recessive, beginner has become one of the most vocal critics of president polka government. the government is accused him of being part of an armed group. he's been convicted and jail for 25 years for terrorism rights groups and observe as say the child was a sham, designed to send a message to dissidence. welcome web reports from one does capital kigali. the full recessive beginner, refused to come to court with his co accused to hear the verdict of his trial and wonders, capitol kigali. he was charged with terrorism and related offenses. prosecutors said he was behind a series of attacks that happened in melinda 3 years ago. when is your goal, since we got to the poor is convicted of being a member of one group and participating tara activities that he's acquitted, of creating the legal group. therefore, him to set up by geena paul. he sentenced to 25 years in prism in recess. a beginner was flown from divine ticket garley last year against his will. when the government suggested he was received into boarding a plane that is paid for international legal observers say that was just the 1st of many problems with the trial. his family has rejected the verdict, my father was tortured, kidnapped a night, his basic right. and then now they just gave him a guilty verdict. the co accused came understand and said that they had been a forced and co hurst and tortured into saying false things against my father. and witnesses are paid and government agent's recess. a beginner was made famous by the hollywood film hotel. rwanda. he told the story of how he saved hundreds of lives as a hotel manager. during rwanda's 1994 genocide, he then fled into exile, became a vocal critic. everyone was president pool kick. i'm a pledge support for an opposition. armed group with prosecutors said he also funded it and ordered a tax recess of again denied it. most of his co accused pled guilty and their statements were used as evidence against him. the other defendants and now being led on to the prison bus to be taken back to jail recess to begin hasn't even left jail for the last 6 months, refused to participate in the court proceedings. all of the defendants. now the opportunity to appeal the court of appeal within the next 15 days. recess, a beginner and supporters have completely rejected all of these legal proceedings to date. recess, a beginner is a belgian citizen and the residence of the us. both governments have criticized the trial. one does government says justice has been delivered if he serves the 25 year sentence recess of the geena, who 67 years old, who like he die in jail. malcolm web al jazeera kigali for wanda president polka gama is a polarizing figure in rhonda. he's credited with developing the country and it's political stability after the genocide, but he's accused of silencing opponent, south africa's investigators. so it could always, government was directly involved in the killing of one of his critics. patrick curry, gail and johannesburg in 2014 kigali has denied the accusations and any involvement in the unsolved murders of several rondon dissidence. now the most recent was the death of a former army officer who was shot at his home in most of beaks capital to, to last week. ah, let's bring in a guess in kigali, yolanda macola or a wondering government spokesperson and in chicago, bryan endless director of african studies at a low low university, chicago and senior advisor to the hotel her wander recessive. again, foundation and in london. jonathan, answer, publisher of africa briefing a pan african use magazine based in london. now welcome to the program. i'd like to begin with brian endless in chicago. this is nothing more than a sham trial. thank you for having me on the program. and unfortunately, i completely agree. paul recessive begin was kidnapped by the rwandan government over a year ago. last august, he was not kidnapped because of any criminal charges he was taken because he has been a critic of that government for over 20 years now. and they have harassed him over that time. you're p unparliamentary and said what fear trial process starts with the kidnapping. and following the kidnapping, he was tortured for 4 days. he was held in solitary confinement for over $250.00 days in violation of the un nelson mandela rules for treatment of prisoners. and he has had limited or no access to his lawyers or legal documents. there was no fair trial ever intended in this case. and as we clearly see from the proceedings and from the results, no fair trial happened. in kigali yolanda macola, this was just just as being served wasn't li. the trial was $21.00 suspects are conducted fairly and transparently, and they presented to the court compelling and comprehensive part of the evidence. those presented to the ord consisted of the files that were handed over to the wrong prosecution. from the belgian prosecution got searched for somebody to help, and brussels also prevented in full testimony of his the poor kid who talked about what they had done together as well as the victim testimonies victims of the attacks in 201820194 western rhonda front unless it was fair, it was transferring the evidence was presented in the way it should have been while you complaining let me take a point by point and thank you for bringing it up. and that is the classic answer of the rwandan government. the good news for us was it was transparent. this trial was very transparent. it was broadcast new to every day, and we were able to watch it with pulse family and paul's legal team. and we saw the unfairness unfold before our there was no compelling testimony. in fact, there was no reasonable testimony in any way, shape or form. there was nothing present. it that showed that paul or any of the coaches were guilty spokesperson mention be so called belgian dossier. there was in fact dossier that came from vulture. it was an investigation that started at the request of the rwandan government. 2019. the belgian government cooperated with them. they put together a long document. unfortunately for the one in government, they want us to believe this document is in some way going to indict paul. in fact, we've read the document and there is nothing in it. there is nothing to the point that in july it's a bulge in government, began talking with paul's war warrior to tell him that they were about to close the case and nothing was going to happen. there was no evidence found there any way could be used to indict paul the testimony of the co accused. and there was actually a test written testimony from fall to paul began this in person after person talked about their testimony. when they came up on that stand. and they said it was coerced. in paul's case, it was coerced at the end of 4 days of torture. with no lawyer present, he was forced to sign a document. at least one of the code used said in court that he signed a document, she said not even read. his lawyer presented him with the documents. most of the co use talked about the worse than that went into their written testimony and their verbal testimony. on the other hand, in open court, transparently completely vindicated paul. busy busy and the others, they said there was no connection to paul, they didn't know him. they didn't know of the political party that paul is a part of. busy until they went to jail. and then finally because the spokes person brought it up, the victims testimony was not testimony at all. we watched victim after victim and i'm very sorry for these victims and their families. we watched victim after victim come up and they told us what they had lost. they gave us a story of troops that were on identify that had attacked them, indoor attack. there was once they told us what property they had lost or the entries they had had, they never identified these troops. they never identified any of the court shoot. they never said that any of these troops were a part of the group that the were wondering government alleges committed these attacks. in fact, over the entire trial from february to july 0. evidence was presented that these attacks even happened. there were pictures of some attack. there were witnesses talking about some attack. it was only the prosecutors telling us these attacks at the time the right, let's pull all of that to elanda mcculler. what is your reaction? well, in addition to numerous numerous records, what's the conversation between the members? what planning the attacks in wander and also planning helps and take responsibility for them. it was of western union and other institution. so fun to to the d. r. c. to buy weapons and suppliers, the compensation about the needs of the soldiers on the ground. there were, there were competitions as well about was a begin a getting military updates from the gospel come on to the ground, he will kill you in charge of this militia. he was promoting the officer. if you decide who the spoke, people would be. in addition, what all of this was happening, don't to quiet about about this. they're still on line and will be in b, c radio. the conversations that we had with jones bragging about, taking responsibility. a conversation with a journalist is not a crime. that is not a crime. that is not a crime. having conversation with john, this is not a crime. having a conversation on whatsapp privately is no evidence of can be serious night is a crime. and he was found guilty based on the evidence that was presented in court . jonathan, i answer, you've been hearing what to guess in kigali and chicago have been saying clearly, this is a very controversial trial with very controversial themes, like having conversations with journalists. i mean, how much of the african imagination has this court has been controversial? indeed. yes. but i'm from where i'm sits and sun observer journalists. and i'm those ever. i believe that poll rose just again them so record, know we also on tv? i get broke out for the day. i mean regime must be removed by all means literature. ok, i mean, so he's certainly self open be i say an opening or fair poke pork or gummy ok. and from what we got our report that we gather, i mean bon bons and i guess what he was kicked. i'm not, i'm not going to be got experience. i've got to john this observance fence. and from what we see, i would say neither agree is not good for our free and for all the try out was free. ok, but sorry, jonathan, you're going to come back to shortly. bye. want to i do want to put your point to yolanda macola. this has been a trial that has been watched by international observers. it was very important for a one to to get this right and to be completely transparent. yet you've been criticized by voting government. you've been criticized by human rights organizations. is that any of those criticisms that you take on board? not at all. they had the concern that the child free and fair, and that's what we're good. there's no one who's more interested in chic, free and fair trial than we were wanting to 6 months. it was meticulously carried out by the, by the judges. and, and they came up with was based on the evidence that was presented, including some open source, open open forces. konica linda, nice talking about this video on admission. told us at the beginning was the leader of the learn. she called them people to mobilize, to support the young men and women who are in the new forest. and he said they wouldn't leave there. they did not go to the forest to abandon it, and they will go all the tricky golly to legitimately elected government. he said this ok, well, in the way the evidence, we've seen a lot of the evidence like the color color, talerico terrorists, and no government should tolerate terrorists, but that's what we're we're, that's all the question we're off. can let me just go to jonathan. if i answer it is the most crucial point of this case, a lot of it is political. this was about recess, a big enough saying that he was a critic of the cook army government. and that's what put him in this site. now that's maybe illegal, maybe not legal, but it depends on the countries concentration. in rwanda, it's clearly a legal to have that level of criticism from where you're sitting. you're a journalist, you'll thing in london, you'll critical of several regimes, not including one that you fear that you might be in the sites of the run and government like other decisions have been african bridge. so really what, what is africa? passwords and some tucked in my lot of way to to be careful how i report how sippin and events so tense and in africa. i mean for fear of miles k. so i will say look at present cognitive coming. so how to undermine the it's a very important your liking, but we don't have a clear connection to you. i'm going to go to brian endless. brian, one of the themes, not just of this trial, but the of could always government is that he has been cracking down on dissidence, not just reset the beginning, but others as well. do you think that's a fair criticism of him? 100 percent and i've been working on issues in wanda since 2007. it has only gotten worse since that time. and please don't take my word for it. you mentioned international organizations, human rights watch, amnesty international and others. the cooney foundation has done an excellent job on trial monitoring on this case. they also this case is unfair. more importantly though, thank you for bringing it up. paul's case is not isolated. there have been thousands of victims over the past 10 decades. in the last 5 years alone, there are a wanted ex patriot groups that track these things. 300 people have been killed extra judicially inside and outside of the country by the want and government. thousands more have been arrested. we have some of the high profile cases because he told me she go, was a singer who was considered a dissident who was put in jail and then died under mysterious circumstances. yvonne damage was a housewife who had enough and who began to criticise to go online, and it was warned to stop. and when she didn't stop, she was imprisoned. former high government official, some of the people that i talked to on a regular basis are people who were former are p f, again a party and they were very highly placed. we know the stories of patrick, you're a guy of his former intelligence chief who was very close to paul could may. and after they fell out, he was assassinated in south africa, generally. and was of the former either brian with later. let's put those points to yolanda yolanda, why you'll government looking up distance according to brian and the evidence of guilt. in this case, if clear, if anyone has evidence to the country they should bring in what brian was doing and what other people like you, maria, or bonding us with very high stereotypes about one and, and then the been prejudiced use of africa in general. this case, this case, what it will shocking about it is the total and complete removal of the victims of these crimes. no one talks about the victims be prime real. they happened in 201820192 extremely little attacks to place in june and december 2018 in which 9 people were killed, including 2 children, age 13 and 17. families was devastated. but this is completely ignored. the suffering is completely ignored. as is the complicity of the 20 other co defendants just because one of the difficulty found, one of the defendants was treating the food for the telephone. if i am in london, one of the reasons paul could tell me is such a powerful figure in wonder is because of his economic reforms because of his ability to manage the economy. a lot of rondon so sorry, we actually can't go to right now, but we'll go back to your land, yolanda i want to hear from you. let's give me a, give me a clear answer. this trial was criticized by human rights watch by the voting government. you say it was a fair trial, was it floored? can you admit that, or do you think it was completely above board? he was, or did he was tried, as well as in case will be tried anywhere else in the world. nothing preventing virginia from accepting the case against him and defending himself. brian, would you have the wrong the wrong? absolutely. absolutely nothing more and we rebuilt it is capable if he's excess, coming from all over the world than the fugitive back to want to be try including countries in europe. you've got a lot of people yolanda disagreeing with you. you've got a lot of people differing, including a guest in chicago. brian endless. brian, brian, tell me, sampson. just let me, let me, let me ask you a question, brian, how much of what we owe, how much of what you're criticizing the running government for is the classic criticism of african governments everywhere is that they're incapable of being fair just because they're offering. it's actually for me, it's not true at all because i've become a deep expert on rwanda. and i know many other african countries, while there are issues in african countries. i honestly believe parker gummies for wanda is a special case. this is a man who wants complete control over descent inside of his country, while other leaders may want it. she has actually achieved it. and examples are the things that you want is bringing up, are patently on their face. ridiculous fact, brian, i want to put that point to him as well because we haven't really heard from him because technical difficulties. but johnson found it's a very simple question folk ago, maybe insulated from a lot of the criticism within render itself because he's been a success. some people have called him a benevolent dictator. how much does that mean? he's untouchable. no, but it is so touchable. okay. but let me close to that one this past research history. they had a get a psych who was against, puts us up on it's her powder people were killed. so the fact events actually ship people's minds ship, people's drinking sifts people's options. okay, so be backed up, i'm not trying to be an apologist for poca garbage, but maybe that shipped him and in try to prevent a similar tragedy. yes, adam, from time to i called pay him to delete the 1st primary self re to couple the quite you i mean see when i mean i think dependency 905758. see got polish a buck water. copper buck, which are but she was sick yesterday. right. all to be met. but the cold sorry you're them we had last. just i want to leave the last point to actually to you both in kigali and in chicago. very, very simply. is there any thing of each other's arguments, chicago bryan unless says it's a sham in canada, yolanda you say that this is actually a fair trial? is there anything you've heard from each other the might change your minds? let's begin with you yolanda. first, look, you know, i did not understand someone who, you know, brian angela says that could come in. he went to the genocide expenses in which more than a 1000000 people like anything else, he says, we have a please. do you want to come to brian as well? because i did so we went, bryan, your thoughts to be clear? i never said anything like that. once again, it is made up by the one the government. my based thought here is, if their system is so fair, why did they not try extradition? the united states has extradited. we're wandering back, that is something i agree with yolanda and she mentioned that earlier. why did they kidnap the man instead of trying extradition? why are they holding him from his lawyers and not allowing his lawyers to see him? why did they torture him on his arrival? none of these things, he just said there was any chance of a fair trial. a fair legal system would have put the evidence to the united states where he was living at the time or to belgium and to say, please send this man to us and the us and belgium have cooperating with wanda in the past. there was never an attempt at cooperation. they jumped straight to kidnapping as humanitarian because he is a critic of a dictatorship. our thank all august yolanda macola, brian endless, and jonathan of a answer. and i want to thank you to watch and you can see the program anytime by this thing a website out is there a dot com and for further discussion. because while the facebook page as facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story. and you can also join the conversation on twitter. we are at a 5 story from me in ron cohen and the whole team here watching the news. ah, i've never seen so much devastation or experience how quickly everything can change . as one of ours and the events in india became much more than just story. one was the thing. we couldn't keep the people we cared about in line. and there were times on when i had to hold back every day i was driven to convey the connect of trauma to make sure that despite the high numbers, we didn't forget that every single dance representative families in one moment. hello, i'm not suffering could have been avoided. i became a journalist to tell the story of what is happening, but also show of the wider context. i'm elizabeth koran, i. ready too often of con, it's done, it's portrayed through the prism of war. but there were many kind of stuff thanks to the brave individuals who risk their lives to protect it from destruction . an extraordinary film archive standing for decades reviews the forgotten truth of the country's modern history. the forbidden real part to the communist revolution on a janita ah hiring accounts of torture from afghans they returned to us prison where they were held during the conflict. we have rare access to the janet by graham ah, this is our life and how also coming up the world must wake up.

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