my guest today is kenneth roth, just retired after 30 years leading the campaign group human rights watch. he s been banned in a host of countries. is it time to acknowledge his brand of human rights campaigning isn t working? kenneth roth in cambridge, massachusetts. welcome to hardtalk. great to be back, stephen. it s good to be with you. it s good to have you on the show. it is indeed quite something, leading one of the world s highest profile human rights advocacy groups for some three decades. did you leave thatjob with a sense of defeat? no, not at all. infact, i mean, maybe i should start with your introduction, because, you know, your introduction was the common wisdom. you know, that democracy is in decline, that autocracy is ascendant. in fact, i think it s a bit more complicated than that. i mean, we are seeing the rise of autocratic voices, you know, the trumps of the world, in western democracies. but if you look at the leading autocratic countries and you put yo
elegant dinners. now on bbc news, hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk, i m stephen sackur. across the world, workers are finding their living standards squeezed by rising inflation. for some, it s not so much a squeeze as decapitation. technological change is driving job cuts in a host of industries. kenneth roth in cambridge, massachusetts. welcome to hardtalk. great to be back, stephen. it s good to be with you. it s good to have you on the show. it is indeed quite something, leading one of the world s highest profile human rights advocacy groups for some three decades. did you leave thatjob with a sense of defeat? no, not at all. infact, i mean, maybe i should start with your introduction, because, you know, your introduction was the common wisdom. you know, that democracy is in decline, that autocracy is ascendant. in fact, i think it s a bit more complicated than that. i mean, we are seeing the rise of autocratic voices, you know, the trumps of the world, in western democracie
oppression are stronger. my guest today is kenneth roth, just retired after 30 years leading the campaign group human rights watch. he s been banned in a host of countries. is it time to acknowledge his brand of human rights campaigning isn t working? kenneth roth in cambridge, massachusetts. welcome to hardtalk. great to be back, stephen. it s good to be with you. it s good to have you on the show. it is indeed quite something, leading one of the world s highest profile human rights advocacy groups for some three decades. did you leave thatjob with a sense of defeat? no, not at all. infact, i mean, maybe i should start with your introduction, because, you know, your introduction was the common wisdom. you know, that democracy is in decline, that autocracy is ascendant. in fact, i think it s a bit more complicated than that. i mean, we are seeing the rise of autocratic voices, you know, the trumps of the world, in western democracies. but if you look at the leading autocratic
declared in five regions, including auckland. now on bbc news, hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. i m stephen sackur. across the world, freedom and democracy are in retreat. almost a third of the world s people live under authoritarian rule. that number is rising and that has grave implications for basic human rights. it s not that liberal democracies can t be abusive of rights, but generally their safeguards against oppression are stronger. my guest today is kenneth roth, just retired after 30 years leading the campaign group human rights watch. he s been banned in a host of countries. is it time to acknowledge his brand of human rights campaigning isn t working? kenneth roth in cambridge, massachusetts. welcome to hardtalk. great to be back, stephen. it s good to be with you. it s good to have you on the show. it is indeed quite something, leading one of the world s highest profile human rights advocacy groups for some three decades. did you leave thatjob with a sense of defeat
zombie democracy. you know, they have an electoral charade. that s what lukashenko did in belarus. that s what putin did in russia. that s what ortega did in nicaragua. that s what museveni did in uganda. these are complete charades. yes, the autocrat stays in power, but with none of the legitimacy that even that managed democracy would have brought. that is not a great long term strategy for survival. as you talk to me about what you see happening in the world, i m kind of struggling to understand what you meant when, during your tenure at human rights watch, you always said, our organisation has to be neutral. in a sense, we have to be like the international committee of the red cross based in switzerland. we have to be able to work in countries and approach countries with the sense that we don t take sides. we are neutral. i mean, in your last answer, you sure as hell were taking sides. where we stress that neutrality is when there s an armed conflict. that s where the red cross o