tonight. former vice president mike pence testified today before the federal grand jury, investigating the former presidents actions surrounding the january six riot and an attempts to overturn the 2020 election election. i am john berman in for anderson. just pause and listen to that again. a former vice president just testified in an investigation about whether a president, his running mate, illegally tried to overturn an election. so much has happened in the last few years, it s easy to get numb to the mind bending is historical explosions taking place. it s the first time in modern history a vice president has been compelled to testify about the president he served beside, and add to that, he might run against trump in 2024. it s also the first time that this vice president has testified under oath about the today we are rioters were seen yelling, hang mike pence at the capitol, as well as personal interactions with trump and the events leading up to that day. he previous
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take that one step further. what answers about those conversations might be problematic for donald trump? mike pence is a crucial witness here. as a prosecutor, you absolutely have to have his testimony, for better or worse. and this is why prosecutors are going to go into the courts and fight and win to get is that testimony. i would exactly focus on what andy pointed out, especially the one-on-one conversations between mike pence and donald trump. let s keep in mind that there are no other witnesses to these donald trump is not going to go to the grand jury. so, it s really all on pence s own recollection and testimony about it. i do have questions about, frankly, how forthcoming he we ll be. there s no tape of these conversations that we know of to keep him in check. and if we look at his public stance about donald trump and january 6th, pence s not been willing to forcefully condemn donald trump. he s given us this wishy-washy stuff that we don t see eye to eye. so i think as
but in so many ways, this is a crucial witness in setting the stage about what happened in the run up to january 6th and how important and historic the aftermath was. john sarah murray, terrific reporting, as always. i m joined now by senior legal analyst elie honig, also the author of untouchable. and also former fbi director andrew mccabe. andrew, let me start with you. how nervous should donald trump be that mike pence was being questioned for five hours before a grand jury today? what about that testimony could concern him? in a word, john, very, very nervous. and we know that because donald trump made significant efforts to try to block that testimony by, again, raising claims of executive privilege, which failed. so the significance of the pence testimony cannot really be overstated, as we know from the work of the january six committee, there were numerous lines of potential criminal
department store. and under oath carroll acknowledged that she said some of her factories she said that they, were you know, difficult to understand and i did make sense they were odd. but she never strayed from her allegations that she was raped in the department store a dressing room. when the facts as she said she understood was odd was that she doesn t recall there being anyone on the sixth floor when this alleged attack took place. but the most intense moments during the cross-examination came when tacopina asked carroll repeatedly why she didn t scream as she was battling in that dressing room for her life. and told carroll him i m not a screamer. she said, i m telling you, he raped me, whether i screamed or not. now tacopina s hotel and some other ticket details, asking how she could ve pushed trump off of her. he weighs more than twice what she does, while wearing four inch high heels, holding on to a handbag, and not ripping any of her tights? this was a fairly intense moment