was using rudy in this very strange role. but how did the how did that begin? did trump send him over? was he just following orders? well, we know how this president likes to delegate and how often a lot of people around him are kind of operating under what they believe he would like them to do. i think, joe, the question that you ask is something that these hearings will have to uncover for the american people, for the members of congress who are ultimately going to decide the president s fate. you know, we don t know exactly at what point the president said do this or do not do this. but what s interesting is the way that this story has been woven from the very beginning through this information that rudy giuliani collected, through his ukrainian associates. and then through a key conduit in the american conservative media, a man by the name of john solomon who was a reporter at the hill until recently who basically rudy giuliani told my colleague ken vogel as we were reporting t
beginning about 11 months ago rudy giuliani started trying to gather information, basically running around ukraine like he was some kind of freelance pi for president trump getting information on the ambassador. and the intent here really was to try to prove that the ukrainians were somehow corrupt and somehow involved in trying to steal the 2016 election. so basically trying to so, jeremy, let me ask you real quick. just on that point, the genesis of this relationship, the genesis of that plan, do we have information of when donald trump said, hey rudy, i want you to go over to ukraine? was rudy freelancing? we know later on, obviously, the call with zelensky the president kept saying talk to rudy, talk to rudy, talk to my attorney general, talk to rudy, talk to my attorney general. at that point we know the president was all in and that he
bank because the cops busted me on the way. so, you know, no harm no foul. that s never been the principle and the law. here the timeline is so devastating. so the whistle-blower files his report on august 12th that goes immediately to internal channels in the intelligence community and the intelligence community lets the congress know about it on september 9th. on september 10th the house sends the against community in a letter saying we want more information about this whistle-blower. and then low and behold, the next day on september 11th the aid flows. the idea that, you know, this is just, you know, no harm no foul, the reason why this shadow foreign policy that to help trump didn t happen is is because he got caught red handed. so, yeah. and then there s this other defense that the counsel tried to float which was, well, there s no first-hand witnesses to the president saying all this stuff. there s no first-hand information about the president s criminal intent. well, yeah, ther
some government officials oppose president trump s approach to ukraine, but many had no idea what concerned him. in this case, it was numerous indications of ukrainian interference in the 2016 election to oppose his campaign and support hillary clinton. alexander cha loupa admitted that she works with officials in washington, d.c. to dig up dirt on the trump campaign. she revealed that ukrainian embassy officials themselves were also working directly with reporters to trooid trade information and leads about the trump campaign. now, are you aware that this is all part of a larger allegation that ukraine interfered in the 2016 election? yes, that is my understanding. and to your knowledge have there any factual basis to
that s strauss, man. the argument the republicans made strikes me has far reaching implications. if attempted, then question let a lot of people out of prison this morning. but we talked about it last hour. when you don t have a great set of facts to work with, you change the conversation as we heard right out of the gate from the ranking member devin nunes who went right to all the conspiracy theories, stuff you d find in chatrooms, found their way into an impeachment inquiry hearing yesterday. right. so it s just unbelievable. from a group of people that said they weren t going to read the information. mika, this is, again, when the fbi kicks down doors and people are putting bombs together because they want to blow up the brooklyn bridge, you know. okay. they don t go can you kids go back to the playground and just do your thing? because you didn t actually blow up the brooklyn bridge, but you were trying to blow it up. right. that s the insanity of the