my guest today is kenneth roth, just retired after 30 years leading the campaign group human rights watch. he s been banned in a host of countries. is it time to acknowledge his brand of human rights campaigning isn t working? kenneth roth in cambridge, massachusetts. welcome to hardtalk. great to be back, stephen. it s good to be with you. it s good to have you on the show. it is indeed quite something, leading one of the world s highest profile human rights advocacy groups for some three decades. did you leave thatjob with a sense of defeat? no, not at all. infact, i mean, maybe i should start with your introduction, because, you know, your introduction was the common wisdom. you know, that democracy is in decline, that autocracy is ascendant. in fact, i think it s a bit more complicated than that. i mean, we are seeing the rise of autocratic voices, you know, the trumps of the world, in western democracies. but if you look at the leading autocratic countries and you put yo
elegant dinners. now on bbc news, hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk, i m stephen sackur. across the world, workers are finding their living standards squeezed by rising inflation. for some, it s not so much a squeeze as decapitation. technological change is driving job cuts in a host of industries. kenneth roth in cambridge, massachusetts. welcome to hardtalk. great to be back, stephen. it s good to be with you. it s good to have you on the show. it is indeed quite something, leading one of the world s highest profile human rights advocacy groups for some three decades. did you leave thatjob with a sense of defeat? no, not at all. infact, i mean, maybe i should start with your introduction, because, you know, your introduction was the common wisdom. you know, that democracy is in decline, that autocracy is ascendant. in fact, i think it s a bit more complicated than that. i mean, we are seeing the rise of autocratic voices, you know, the trumps of the world, in western democracie
oppression are stronger. my guest today is kenneth roth, just retired after 30 years leading the campaign group human rights watch. he s been banned in a host of countries. is it time to acknowledge his brand of human rights campaigning isn t working? kenneth roth in cambridge, massachusetts. welcome to hardtalk. great to be back, stephen. it s good to be with you. it s good to have you on the show. it is indeed quite something, leading one of the world s highest profile human rights advocacy groups for some three decades. did you leave thatjob with a sense of defeat? no, not at all. infact, i mean, maybe i should start with your introduction, because, you know, your introduction was the common wisdom. you know, that democracy is in decline, that autocracy is ascendant. in fact, i think it s a bit more complicated than that. i mean, we are seeing the rise of autocratic voices, you know, the trumps of the world, in western democracies. but if you look at the leading autocratic
declared in five regions, including auckland. now on bbc news, hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. i m stephen sackur. across the world, freedom and democracy are in retreat. almost a third of the world s people live under authoritarian rule. that number is rising and that has grave implications for basic human rights. it s not that liberal democracies can t be abusive of rights, but generally their safeguards against oppression are stronger. my guest today is kenneth roth, just retired after 30 years leading the campaign group human rights watch. he s been banned in a host of countries. is it time to acknowledge his brand of human rights campaigning isn t working? kenneth roth in cambridge, massachusetts. welcome to hardtalk. great to be back, stephen. it s good to be with you. it s good to have you on the show. it is indeed quite something, leading one of the world s highest profile human rights advocacy groups for some three decades. did you leave thatjob with a sense of defeat
maybe that s, maybe that s partly because you did some pretty amazing things. i mean, you tweeted a cartoon. ijust checked the timeline. and january 1st, 2020, i thinkjust before you got blocked at hong kong airport, you tweeted out a cartoon which portrayed the grim reaper dressed in the chinese flag where the stars had been rearranged into a swastika and where he was about to enter a door marked the world, having already entered other doors marked uyghurs, tibet, hong kong, with blood pouring out of those doors. i mean, there couldn t have been a more graphic illustration of your complete disgust with china and the association of china with nazism. well, look, i do believe that china is a severe threat both domestically, if you look at the way they ve treated uyghurs and other turkic muslims. you know, to lock up a million muslims, to force them to abandon islam, their language and their culture, i mean, that is horrible. yeah, sure, but no, i get that, but it s all about the way a