only in it for himself. so if you re mark meadows and you ve known that firsthand, you ve seen firsthand experience of that, you got to wonder is trump ultimately going to point the finger at meadows and everyone else is making that same assessment. all the individual attorneys who are now being blamed by trump under this so-called advice of counsel defense, which goes, hey, i donald trump didn t know i was doing anything wrong, these attorneys are the ones who told me all this cockamamie nonsense. all of these are indicia of trump basically not be trustworthy, even by members of his own team, forget about the american people. that makes the cooperation calculus i think a lot more likely, not just for meadows but for any of the other 17 people that were named in yesterday s indictment. i mean, tim, to neil s point, we spent so much time talking about jack smith s efforts to get into trump s state of mutual
brought it was going to be a subset. we talked about the georgia case being a subset of the federal case and in many ways that did not turn out to be the case. they both told in many ways the full story but this indictment really goes from top all the way down in a granular level to what was happening in a particular state. and it does allude to what was going on in other states as well. you got to see the piece that jack smith really focused on, which is the material that tim hafey put out.
slate of fake electors. you don t get to make up fake stories about ruby freeman and shea moss. you don t get to send people to shake them down to get their stories to change, to falsely say that there was fraud in the election. you don t get to break into voting machines. i mean, there s just a whole series of things that you are not allowed to do. what you can do is you can go to court. and they did go to court and they lost. and that s the end of it. that was their legal remedy. so that is all extra judicial, which is a fancy way of saying criminal. and so whether mark meadows is, and i totally agree with tim that he s sort of all over the place, he is sort of the yes man to everybody, but he can be charged for what he is doing, what he is participating in and
with msnbc s yasmin vossoughian, tom winter, andrew weissmann, and former member of robert mueller s special investigation into russian interference in 2016, and also joining us is tim hafey, former lead investigator for the january 6th select committee. let s go to yasmin and get the lay of the land. what s happening outside the courthouse right now? reporter: a real moment, if you think about it. a former president of the united states, usually landing at andrews air force base, taking marine one. instead, landing at reagan national, taking that ten-minute drive to the courthouse where he ll be arraigned here at the courthouse behind me. security is in place as we have been talking about all day. inside, the u.s. marshals in charge of security. secret service navigating his travels from the airport to the courthouse, along with his entry into the courthouse, which we believe he ll enter on c street
seen, a spokesperson on many of the cable and morning programs. but also a number of talk campaign advisers are with him. jason miller, steven chung, his political and legal adviser, boris epshteyn. we re also learning that in addition to john lauro, someone you probably have seen repeatedly speaking on behalf of donald trump as his lawyer, todd blanch will be in the courtroom as well. that courtroom, tim, is very close. really just blocks away from where the insurrection happened. how important do you think it is that the trial take place in washington, d.c., even though the charges don t involve directly the insurrection, don t involve incitement? it is what for many people is represented in this indictment. what do you make of the symbolism of this and the moment we re seeing right now?