arms and learn how to use rocket-propelled grenades to defend our democracy the way they have to do in ukraine. the way we do it here, because we have a functioning court system and we have and it is not an external threat, it is a domestic threat. what we have to do is enforce the laws that exist on the books. if there ever was a conspiracy to defraud the united states about something, i mean a million dollars, a billion dollars, it is usually money in these cases, but this was our democracy. this was the whole kit and caboodle. if these laws don t apply here, they don t apply anywhere. so well put. george conway and the washington post s jackie alemany. thank you both very much for coming on this morning. still ahead, we return to our coverage of the war in ukraine. pentagon press secretary john kirby joins us to discuss u.s. troop movements in europe. plus, military analysis from
0 maddow show right starts right now. good evening chris, thanks my friend, much appreciated. thanks for joining us this hour, when the day this is been. be true. turns out it was rudy. here s the front page at cnn.com right now. giuliani led fake electors plot. here s the washington post s version of the that same front page story today. giuliani coordinated plan for trump electoral votes in states biden won. it was mr. giuliani, apparently. you know, you find a little thread of a story, you tug and you tug and you tug some more an one day you re like one more tug on the same thread and the whole sweater comes apart. today the whole sweater came apart and now we re sitting in a pile ofno yarn and you re going oh, that s what it s made of. here s how cnn put it in their story tonight. quote, trump campaign officials led by rudy giuliani oversaw efforts in december 2020 to put forward illegitimate electors from seven states that trump lost, according to three sources knowledge of t
doorway, and beaten with his own baton, all in the first two hours. roslyn helderman is one of the many reporters who helped piece together the washington post s comprehensive look at the events before, during and after january 6th, and she joins me now. it s great work, roslyn, i learned a lot as someone who has been covering this intimately day in day out, i still learn from it. i guess the first question here is what your reporting suggests, we saw the video to open up, which is sort of amazing syncing up moment of the president says go home, people crowd around smartphones saying, oh, we ve got the message. what took so long that it had to be 187 minutes to get to that message? yeah, we know that at that time the then president was not even in the oval office. he was in his private dining room, and all kinds of people were trying to reach him and get him to speak out, and he would not do it. he appeared to be charge by the
mcconnell is saying that republicans won t vote to raise the debt ceiling. shocking, but oh, the hypocrisy. and just tired. there is so much hypocrisy. and honestly, mostly it s coming from one side, especially looking at the egregious behavior of the last administration, and all of the people who were apologists and stood by while this man and that administration ran roughshod over the institutions of this country. the hypocrisy in all of this. by the washington post s count, mitch mcconnell voted to increase or suspend the debt ceiling 32 times, 32 times. three of those times under, as i said, the previous president. so listen to what he said. this is in 2019. raise the debt ceiling because america can t default. i mean, that would be a disaster. it would be a disaster. but now? and let s remember, the debt
behavior of the last administration, and all of the people who were apologists and stood by while this man and that administration ran roughshod over the institutions of this country. the hypocrisy in all of this. by the washington post s count, mitch mcconnell voted to increase or suspend the debt ceiling 32 times, 32 times. three of those times under, as i said, the previous president. so listen to what he said. this is in 2019. raise the debt ceiling because america can t default. i mean, that would be a disaster. it would be a disaster. but now? and let s remember, the debt ceiling isn t about racking up new debt. it s not about running around like a drunken sailor with a black card, meaning like a black credit card, like amex black card where you can spend a lot of money. it s about paying the bills that