itself. and we just don t know. and spider, how much do you think outside forces like the united states or other allies actually have to influence the nature of the return that we all get from the investment made in the battles fought in that country? well, it really depends upon the iraqi government and how much they want to be participants in our desire, in our efforts to try to help move them along. the real effort coming forward is the fact that this government needs to have space, it needs to grow, it needs to mature. frankly, we could debate whether they re ready to do that, whether the united states is leaving prematurely, whether the united states whether the president, quite frankly, made the decision or was forced into a corner to make that decision. so i think, as tony indicated, the jury s out. but this is a growing and fledgling democracy. let s help them where they want to be helped, to achieve some additional steps in the right direction. absolutely.
of the possibility that ethnic and sectarian tensions are going to start up again. is a 3,000 or 5,000 force that significant? no. and we ve made such an enormous investment. more than 4,000 lives, 30,000 casualties, more than $1 trillion. for a small investment, would we have increased the odds things would not have come off the rails? i think yeah. so i would have said yes, it was worth it. we department negotiate it. could we have negotiated it? the jury s out. iraq is largely left to its own devices, and we re going to see how it plays out. i believe this increases the chances, it gets rougher around the edges. how many people do you hear talking about foreign policy on the campaign trail? very little. mostly foreign policy s talked about as something republicans are using to criticize the president and the status quo without laying out a vision
they got nuclear weapons, the reality is they also hear the u.s. is leaving by the end of 0 10 2014. they never did control the tribal areas, i think there s been undo focus on the problem in pakistan. the question is internally in afghanistan, we have an afghan army that s appearing, can we create a government and a police force internally that will maintain security? the jury s out, thomas, on that whole issue. atia in kabul, and general mccaffrey, thanks to both of you. it s a big question, we re going to talk to msnbc s chris hayes weighing in on that and whether the president can turn the wage against wall street to his political advantage next. cad gives you a 50% annual bonus!
regime. but the question is now can they govern themselves without a murderous dictator like saddam? i think they can but the jury s out. i m curious, do you see anything coming in the way of bringing home all of our troops? i m not talking about the combat troops. all of them, about 50,000, are supposed to be home by the end of summer, in august. but the rest of them, do you envision a scenario in which we have to have peacekeeping type of soldiers there that stay longer than the projected end of 2011? we ve had most of our combat troops, by the way, off the streets and back on brigade forward operating bases the better part of a year. casualty rate, thank god, in iraq has gone to near zero. the war that s going on is in afghanistan, not iraq. i think combat troops will come out, there will be a significant presence until next summer. it s possible we d stay longer with substantial amounts of air power, intelligence, special ops, trainers, but the iraqis
tremendous 89 some odd parties competing for 325 seats. the problem will be, can they govern the country? can they form a government after this election? that s really the question in my mind. okay. if these elections are deemed successful, in your judgment, how do we then view the whole iraq experience there, this war experience? i know it s going to be left to historian s ultimately, but fro your vantage point? we ve had 36,000 wounded and killed. we ve spent arguably $500 billion at a minimum. the question will be, a year from now, is iraq a governing state that isn t a threat to its neighbors or its own people? my inclination is, they probably will make it, but the jury s out and the dispute will be decided, not just by today s 19 million voters, but whether they can hammer out some kind of consensus, politics instead of killing each other? they re about 96,000 troops in