the spy is a mastermind, an evil genius, a master of disguise and this and that and the other thing. it s the james bond idea. and you read a lot of spy novels? all of them. if it has the word spy i read them. but in real life the spy s success is not due to the spy s genius, it s due to everyone else s blindness. the spy novels all have it backwards. most spies are really lame. the reason i tell these spies story is i m really interested in this notion is why is it so easy for human beings to be deceived. as a reporter you like to think when you re talking to somebody you can get a sense of if they re honest or not, but i got say after reading your book, i sort of feel like do we really know who we re talking to? i don t think we do. it s a fascinating conversation. you can see the full one-hour interview with malcolm gladwell in the coming weeks. we ll bring that to you.
we don t know what david kramer would say. he pleaed the fifth. sean: you ve seen it all. we expect the mueller reportn: maybe even as early as this week. we know that all of these documents, all of these interviews, we know all of this will eventually become public. you are convinced that mueller can t possibly have anything on collusion at all because there llwas none? well, there was no collusion. the only collusion occurred between the democrats and the russians. that we re still trying to get to the bottom of. there s the construction route. we don t know what mueller is going to say on that. if you look at the mueller indictment, they read like russian supply novel spy novels. they don t have anything.
could make such an allegation, but it is incredibly unusual and i can understand why mueller s team would have been very angry to find out about this, and to the extent they found out manafort was lying to them, to sever all ties. barb, i have an overactive imagination and i read too many spy novels. so, when i read this story tonight, i immediately went to, like, the melodramatic explanation for this, which is, paul manafort faced two trials, one in virginia and one in washington, d.c., and the point at which he pled guilty was in between those two trials, so, he got creamed in the first trial. he got convicted of multiple felonies. he was to be start trial in the second jurisdiction. and in the spy movie, you know, political thriller version of this that runs in my head instantly, somebody from the white house or the white house directly comes to paul manafort and says paul, put up a good fight. we know you thought you d do great here, but you re getting creamed and you re going to
well. certainly facts would need to be learned about this before you could make such an allegation, but it is incredibly unusual and i can understand why mueller s team would have been very angry to find out about this, and to the extent they found out manafort was lying to them, to sever all ties. barb, i have an overactive imagination and i read too many spy novels. so when i read this story tonight, i immediately went to like the mellodramatic explanation for this, which is paul manafort faced two trials, one in virginia and one in washington, d.c., and the point at which he plead guilty was in between those two trials. so he got creamed in the first trial. he got convicted of multiple felonies. he was to be start trial in the second jurisdiction. and in the spy movie, you know, political thriller version of this that runs in my head instantly, somebody from the white house or the white house directly comes to paul manafort and says paul, put up a good fight. we know you thought y
involved in conveying this information to the president and the president s legal team, that lawyer could him or herself be in trouble for this? i think so. if the lawyer is sharing information that s sensitive to the investigation that he s learning from his client based on the questions that he s being asked and reporting back to people who are themselves within the scope of the investigation, i think one could argue that that s an effort to interfere with the investigation or similarly if people on the trump camp are feeding information back and instructing manafort not to answer certain questions or to lie about certain things, i that could be obstruction as well. certainly facts would need to be learned about this before you could make such an allegation, but it is incredibly unusual and i can understand why mueller s team would have been very angry to find out about this, and to the extent they found out manafort was lying to them, to sever all ties. barb, i have an overactiv