department and the fbi. was absolutely untoward and really undermined his ability to be a leader of that agency. and i too would have been one of the voices that said that a president of the united states should seriously consider whether his actions merited his being fired. and so what s ironic in that way is that you had for a long time, what, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of public official democrats all over the country yelling and screaming for director comey to be fired and ultimately that was what happened and it was deserved. people can question timing and events and language, but he had obviously undermined his own ability to lead that agency and i think we have to leave it at that. it you go there, there s wide legal expertise in support for part of the argument you just made, but isn t the legal question that bob mueller has that it was about stopping an investigation, like the russia
right. so the answer is they couldn t be doing it more wrong. from every direction, every decision, it s about protecting the truth from coming out. if donald trump had nothing to worry about, i don t buy perjury traps, if he has the truth, he would speak the truth to mueller. taking the fifth amendment, i don t care what the rules are, that donald trump doesn t have to follow. the american people will not forgive a president taking the fifth. you think it s a bad look for a president in a probe? it goes against my rule in crisis management is that tell the truth, tell it early, and tell it all. but donald trump appears to be hiding the truth of any involvement with the russian meddling. i want to talk to you about zealous advocacy as a lawyer, anyone who s ever been in a
here at the top of the show. we have a very special guest to dig into how a white house deals with a criminal probe. lanny davis you may recognize from the many hats he s worn, as special counsel when the house was investigating bill clinton, he s a long time lawyer and advocate of them. his new book the unmaking of the president 2016 how james comey, the director of the fbi cost hillary clinton the presidency. the first thing i want to talk to you about is how a white house deals with the very dell at the situation of having an open probe. your grade of how the trump folks are dealing with it, and are they following one of the maxims that you have outlined over the years, which is be honest, be fast, be first. well, the answer was expose by this nonsense that the president taking the fifth amendment is his constitutional
you don t have to state an opinion, i will say that roger and eric holder usually don t agree. he says i recognize the political and legal danger of just stiffing the guy. i turn to you on the law, karen. what is is legal danger in this context when you re a subject of a probe and you say i can t speak based on the fifth? well, i mean, certainly it s happened in many cases, you say i can t speak based on the fifth and then the probe goes forward gathering all the other evidence. but you can t go into court and say this is what i wanted to say and they didn t want to listen to me. and especially when you re talking about targeting the president of the united states. you want to give them an opportunity to answer the questions that they have, but the probe will continue whether he says, you know, i m willing to speak or not. but, you know, in some sense you lose the high ground of saying, well, i really wanted to tell