in ukraine by reading the news. many expressed exasperation at the threat of giuliani in the crosshairs of federal investigators continuing to cause headaches for the white house. joining our conversation chief public affairs officer from moveon.org and author of moving forward karine jean-pierre. here s the rudy question. i don t really care what he s doing there. but why does anyone think he s doing anything other than what the president wants him to do? we now have the phone records that show him talking to the white house. we ve had gordon sondland testify. everything i did was at the direction of the president and what the president told zelensky to do and what the president told all of the white house officials to do was to work with rudy. this isn t a rudy story. this is a trump story. this is not about his lawyer, his personal lawyer. this is about donald trump himself. who is still running a dirt campaign in ukraine fthrough rudy. you have to think that rudy must be walk