but if he pardons him for stuff that s already out, it s almost like if people are concerned that there s a pardon happening that s not appropriate, it just it won t hold the same weight as people might think it would. arthel: michael, i think rachel s saying that the voice mails may not be a thing but i think you say it could be a thing. so for those looking for a smoking gun in one of the 10 obstruction of justice questions raised in the special counsel report, is this it, the audio from trump s personal attorney, john dowd? it could be. let me say that if there s some kind of message there, to mike flynn by dowd that s given at trump s direction that he should not cooperate, that he should hang tight and be a good soldier and carry on and fight the fight for the president, that s a problem. that s considered conduct the congress could look at if they re going to impeach. if he s changing lawyers because they re going to encourage him to try to get out of his plea agreement, he n
arthel: rachel, what do you think michael flynn is up to and is this something the president should be paying close attention to? well, i think it s really interesting. i agree with michael, that there are many, many reasons why you might decide to change your lawyer and it could be something as mundane as finances. defense of a lengthy criminal matter is very, very expensive. they could have a differen difff opinion. now that he s at the final leftover point of the case of just sentencing, he could just be wanting to make shrinks a little easier p things a little easier. it could be something very different. what he could be doing is hiring new counsel to potentially withdraw his plea, which would be a foolish move on his part, i think. he could be with drawing his plea. if he has his new lawyer come out on television and make a big stink saying the whole thing was part of the witch hunt, i was pressured and i wanted nothing to do with pleading guilty, i m with drawing it now, the
heads up, if any information that might be damaging to the president came up. if on the other hand, you know, there s information that implicates the president, then we ve got a national security issue or maybe a national security issue. i don t know. some issue, we ve got to deal with not only for the president, but for the country. so, you know, then we need some kind of heads up, just for the sake of protecting all interests, if we can, without you having to give up any confidential information. arthel: joining me now, rachel stealth had, a trial and immigration attorney, plus michael j. moore, a former u.s. attorney in georgia and partner of hope and mcgrahamery.
that s why our wine consumption is on high income, let s say. rachel, michael, thank you very much. glad to be with you. thank you. eric: it turns out a witness in the special counsel s investigation has been ordered to jail on a child pornography case. the wall street journal reports george nader was detained in new york city. prosecutors say they found dozens of sexually explicit pictures of underage boys on his iphone. he is a dual lebanese citizen who acted as a liaison in the early days of the administration. he was charged in april of last year after cooperating in the mueller investigation, about his contacts with businessmen that authorities are say are close to russian president vladimir putin. arthel: are there enough safeguards in place to protect our 2020 elections from foreign interference? our next guest says the trump administration has not been engaged on this issue. [music playing]