to get inside u.s. attorney s office to figure out what s going on with the bridge-gate thing and now we have what seems like really credible reporting from brian thompson. what s the decision usually behind that? what is happening inside for something like that to get out? well, it s unusual. federal prosecutors are usually a lot more discreet than state prosecutors because they are not elected officials. they are appointed by the president. this report is incredible though because we ve always thought that bridge-gate has never been clear exactly what the crime is. sandy-gate, how the sandy funds were allocated that seems a more traditional public corruption prosecution but these indictments are most unwelcome development for governor christie. what s going on is pyramid prosecution, working your way up to the top. it sounds like these indictments will be little fish and bigger fish but not the big fish. the big fish is christie. i think he s kind of again, this
immunity right there. tell us as a former prosecutor, there are other tools in their toolbox. oh, absolutely. this is why federal prosecutors just hate these parallel investigations, because, really, all the amateurs can do is kind of mess up your criminal prosecution, because, whether they technically have the power or not, they can practically confer immunity. and immunity, it s not candy, it s like a big double chocolate sunday for a suspect, because it s like a get out of jail free card. so you want people to be very careful about who they give immunity to. so rather than immunity, what they ll do is start, as they did last week, bringing this low-level guy into the grand jury. that signals they re preparing a criminal case, maybe not against christie, but against someone. they re going to do pyramid prosecution, starting at the bottom. and before immunity for big fish like kelly or steppian, they try to make a deal. they d say, if you testify, then we ll prosecute you for someth
prosecution, because, whether they technically have the power or not, they can practically confer immunity. and immunity, it s not candy, it s like a big double chocolate sunday for a suspect, because it s like a get out of jail free card. so you want people to be very careful about who they give immunity to. so rather than immunity, what they ll do is start, as they did last week, bringing this low-level guy into the grand jury. that signals they re preparing a criminal case, maybe not against christie, but against someone. they re going to do pyramid prosecution, starting at the bottom. and before immunity for big fish like kelly or steppian, they try to make a deal. they d say, if you testify, then we ll prosecute you for something less than, you know, what we think you re really guilty of. and so brian, let s go to the politics of this here. it seems to me if you re watching all of this from the christie perspective, not the former aides, who are in a bit of a dance for survival,
of danger in terms of a subsequent prosecution. she also wrote, indeed, mr. steppian and miss kelly could face prosecution for official misconduct in either state or federal court. and judge jacobson disagreed with the committee s claim that their request was not a fishing expedition. the fundamental problem with the subpoenas is that they re overly broad, she wrote. the requests, as modified, remain a fishing expedition. so in the short-term, this means there will be less information flowing to that new jersey legislative committee, a committee that we ve reported on, but it s always been the case that the bigger game, and the bigger investigation, has been the separate parallel inquiry in the u.s. attorney s office, the federal investigation, and that, of course, is not affected in any way directly by today s ruling. joining us now is msnbc contributor, brian murphy, assistant professor at perdue college and paul butler, professor of law at georgetown university law center, a former
news for those former christie aides, specifically pointing to the ongoing u.s. attorney investigation, the federal investigation, as a basis for her ruling today. take a look. the judge concluded that they were protected partly because they are currently in the zone of danger in terms of a subsequent prosecution. she also wrote, indeed, mr. steppian and miss kelly could face prosecution for official misconduct in either state or federal court. and judge jacobson disagreed with the committee s claim that their request was not a fishing expedition. the fundamental problem with the subpoenas is that they re overly broad, she wrote. the requests, as modified, remain a fishing expedition. so in the short-term, this means there will be less information flowing to that new jersey legislative committee, a committee that we ve reported on, but it s always been the case that the bigger game, and the bigger investigation, has been the separate parallel inquiry in the u.s. attorney s