it s just a matter of how fast, did you really believe that? of course i believed it then. i think it s a fair assessment about where the anc find themselves in the last local government elections, in 2021, they, for the first time in post democratic south africa, lost their majority and fell below 50%. this obviously allied with the fact that our economy s not growing, we ve got 30 million people living in poverty, 12 million people unemployed, and loadshedding, rolling blackouts, which have reached into every home and switched off the lights, switched off our factories, and switched off our economy. south africans are realising that if they don t change the way they vote, south africa is going to end up in a very, very dark place, and it s going to be poverty and inequality deepening. well, in that bleak context that you ve just outlined, with the unemployment, what they call here loadshedding , the rolling power cuts, the massive economic problems, how is it that the m
of the guard coming in south africa, the anc s decline is terminal. it s just a matter of how fast, did you really believe that? of course i believed it then. i think it s a fair assessment about where the anc find themselves in the last local government elections, in 2021, they, for the first time in post democratic south africa, lost their majority and fell below 50%. this obviously allied with the fact that our economy s not growing, we ve got 30 million people living in poverty, 12 million people unemployed, and loadshedding, rolling blackouts, which have reached into every home and switched off the lights, switched off our factories, and switched off our economy. south africans are realising that if they don t change the way they vote, south africa is going to end up in a very, very dark place, and it s going to be poverty and inequality deepening. well, in that bleak context that you ve just outlined, with the unemployment, what they call here loadshedding , the rol
the anc has been damaged by economic stagnation, a protracted energy crisis, and massive inequality. my guest today is the leader of the biggest opposition party, the democratic alliance, john steenhuisen. could he become south africa s first white leader since apartheid? john steenhuisen, welcome to hardtalk. great to be with you, stephen. well, it s great to be here in cape town. let s start with a very simple question. when you said not so long ago, there is a changing of the guard coming in south africa, the anc s decline is terminal. it s just a matter of how fast, did you really believe that? of course i believed it then. i think it s a fair assessment about where the anc find themselves in the last local government elections, in 2021, they, for the first time in post democratic south africa, lost their majority and fell below 50%. this obviously allied with the fact that our economy s not growing, we ve got 30 million people living in poverty, 12 million people une
my guest today is the leader of the biggest opposition party, the democratic alliance, john steenhuisen. could he become south africa s first white leader since apartheid? john steenhuisen, welcome to hardtalk. great to be with you, stephen. well, it s great to be here in cape town. let s start with a very simple question. when you said not so long ago, there is a changing of the guard coming in south africa, the anc s decline is terminal. it s just a matter of how fast, did you really believe that? of course i believed it then. i think it s a fair assessment about where the anc find themselves, in the last local government elections, in 2021, they, for the first time in post democratic south africa, lost their majority and fell below 50%. this obviously allied with the fact that our economy s not growing, we ve got 30 million people living in poverty, 12 million people unemployed, and loadshedding, rolling blackouts, which have reached into every home and switched off the
economic problems, how is it that the main opposition party, your party, the democratic alliance, is actually finding its vote share going down? well, i think that one needs to look, particularly at the last election, the 2021 election, as somewhat of an outlier election, given the fact it took place in the midst of covid. it took place after serious bouts of litigation. but if one looks at how the da has grown since then, up to 27% in the polls, one looks at some of the by election results in places like khayelitsha. well, i did look at the recent by election results, because polls are one thing, but actual results are another. and in a whole host of by elections, you actually haven t managed to take seats from the anc. in ten recent by elections, the anc retained seven key seats. so, you re not making the breakthroughs that you have promised for years. but i think you ve got to look at the growth of the opposition there so let s take this khayelitsha by election, which took place i