of the bravery of 25-year-old cassidy hutchinson, who spoke truth to power, who spoke the truth, who spoke, despite the fact that many much older, much more experienced men, were too weak and too shrivelled to be able to speak out about what happened behind closed doors in the trump white house leading up to did she say that? is willie here? let me tell you something willie i don t know that she mentioned there s more than one woman who spoke out and was able to do that. right. compared to these pathetic men. it s okay. i don t think she used the word shrivelled. they re in the corner, shrivelled in the corner. it was cold. kind of chilly. i don t know. i get what mika is saying here. you better. it was quite an image, willie, is it not? liz cheney getting rapturous applause at the reagan library, the epicenter of what once was a movement called conservatism, and talking about just how corrupt the republican party has gotten, but how one young
as lawyers. they were loyal to donald trump. they stayed loyal to donald trump over four years. january 6th, though, was a breaking point, and as we heard from mr. donoghue, pat had an impossible job at this point, and he did it well. i must also say, again, as an attorney and let s bring in former u.s. attorney and senior fbi official chuck rosenberg, i ll ask him, and the washington post congressional investigations reporter jackie allah mainly. i have to say, chuck, with pat cipollone, if i were the president s counsel and people wanted me to testify, i would want to receive a letter just like the one that pat cipollone received saying, we ve tried everything to get you to testify, you will not testify, you leave us no choice but to subpoena you to testify, and at that point, i mean, it s much easier to say okay, now i can
i just hope both sides are careful. i respect the fact that any white house counsel has an obligation to the office of the presidency to maintain the confidence of certain limited discreet conversations. but there s a ton of stuff we can hear from him. absolutely. jackie, give us your latest reporting on this and in terms of the subpoena, why now? is it obvious because of the testimony of cassidy hutchinson or are there other factors into timing? yeah. mika, why i think cassidy hutchinson s testimony was scheduled on tuesday and why it was so effective was because she really put fingerprints on every person in the white house who had a firsthand seat to the potential criminal activity by the former president and his co-conspirators, and so that we have heard from people involved from the committee that that is in part why the testimony from cassidy, the surprised testimony, announced with 24
the guardrails. we can t leave it up to character in the fewer, because we realized just how fickle that can be. no doubt about that. we depended on constitutional norms, mika, we have defended we have depended on the character of people sitting in the white house. we do need some more safeguards. speaking of character and credibility, jackie, before you go, talk to me about tony ornato and his credibility and participation all of this. yeah. mika, thanks. this is sort of of besides the point as joe pointed out, but it s a fascinating subplot and something you might be talking about down the line, but tony ornato is a fascinating character. if you haven t read my colleague s book on the secret service, i highly recommend picking it up. she touches on some of these issues that i think are really important context for the current smear campaign that we re seeing come out against cassidy hutchinson, which is
afternoon. but it s more complex than that. privilege is determined on a question by question, answer by answer basis, and so the right way to assert privilege if you want to do it, is to show up and if you re asked a question that you think calls for a privileged response to then assert the privilege and if the other side has a problem you go to court. it s a really fact specific inquiry, and it gets complicated and nuanced, but i am confident that the committee and mr. cipollone and his lawyers can negotiate a path through that if both sides are going to operate in good faith. jackie, we ve heard many republicans, joe reference what has happened on other channels, picking apart and picking through cassidy hutchinson s testimony on the salacious details but at the center of it these are serious charges and accusations and the eyewitness accounts she brought about of a president clearing the path for supporters to march up to the