about todd winkler at this point. we knew a lot more about how he goes about getting what he wants. reporter: the more she learned about cathy winker s death the more it seemed to her that todd must have planned it all. just as the evidence here in california was telling her that the killing of rachel winkler more than a decade later was a case of history, todd winkler s history, repeating itself. but if she had some crusading idea of finding justice in that old case, and using it to solidify her own here in california, she d have persuade a judge, first. disorder in the court. show your gut some love.
reporter: simple, all that psychiatric stuff, she said, was fakery. todd winkler may have had, or feigned, some disorder that got him out of the air force, she said, but he killed rachel. and it was murder, deliberate and planned, she said, committed by a man practiced at getting away with things. this is a case about a mastermind, a manipulator, a murderer. this is a case about todd winkler and how he brutally murdered rachel marie winkler, his wife, mother of his three small children. reporter: todd winkler did not have to fend off a scissor-wielding wife, said prosecutor suder, so it wasn t self-defense. and rachel s death could not be blamed on any mental condition either, any more than the death of another mrs. winkler in those dark woods so long ago. but as she began to tell that part of the story watch what happened.
life insurance was cheap, easy to get. they both had it. anyway, todd loved cathy. why else would he keep her ashes all these years. cathy s death, said the defense, had nothing whatever to do with the event for which todd was on trial, the death of rachel winkler, and he wasn t guilty in this case either. this is not a murder case, ladies and gentlemen. it s a self-defense case, or at most it s a voluntary manslaughter case. reporter: there were two good reasons to believe that, said the defense. reason one, self defense. as todd told the police that very first day it was probably a kill or be killed kind of situation. reporter: he was a good guy in a bad situation, said his attorney. he worked hard and long hours to support rachel. he wanted to make her happy, and he was a good dad. and for that she cheated on him, threatened him and then attacked with those scissors.
it really shocked me that i was getting a call from california about a case that i had worked in our little gentle town there in white county. reporter: had you forgotten all about that case? no, sir. i actually over the years, i ve thought about that case many times. reporter: the case, an auto accident in the fall of 99. an accident that killed the first mrs. winkler, cathy. it was my father who called me that night and told me that that cathy was no longer with us. reporter: what was that like for you? it hurts. it still hurts. reporter: so many years later, charles carlisle still smarts from the loss of his big sister cathy, just never got over it. but then, cathy was also his mentor, his protector perhaps his only true friend. they grew up on mcdill airforce base near tampa, florida charles painfully shy, cathy, outgoing, strikingly attractive, popular. tanya vanatter and julie lynn
and here began atoning for the sins of his youth by devoting his life to three little kids, eva, ariel and alex. it was after all that that they held the trial. prosecutor lisette suder intended to portray todd as a manipulative and devious man who murdered not one wife but two. that is if she could persuade a california judge to allow an old georgia case to be dusted off and brought back to life. i felt confident that i had the law behind me on that. and i submitted my brief, and i submitted the legal arguments that supported that. reporter: and? she won. and so, in september of 2014, when todd winker went on trial charged with first-degree murder of second wife rachel, lisette suder could use the georgia story about first wife cathy s death 15 years earlier against him.