and, this, it seems to me is one of the pieces of the conspiracy. there is an overhanging conspiracy and what is it? well, we are going to say, we want, even though we lost, we are going to get false executive pardons, we have a theory about how we can throw this thing up against the wall on january 6, and make trump president, we go to the justice department, so then we cooked up this theory with clark, and then we are all in the white house talking about it, so who do i see in this conspiracy? well, clark is exposed, certainly, and trump is exposed, in person, talking about it, in the presence of two justice department officials and pat cipollone. it is dynamite. it is as good as a tape recording in georgia that will hang him on the rest of the conspiracy no matter whether it is tri-down there or finally in dc. so, john, when you look at
as most important to his testimony, what does it tell you that he spoke for this long, what does it do to the case about the insurrection and potentially, donald trump s criminal liability? i think to put it in a framework, and in eight hours, we have i am sure quite a bit of information that is helpful. one of the most significant meetings of many meetings, i think, is the one in the oval office, with the justice department officials, and pat cipollone and what you have, is you have the i don t know, chief conspirator, trump, and instead of delegating this entire operation to someone else, he is sitting there, and demanding that a letter that contains false information that there is fraud in the election, on a bogus legal theory that people know is not a good legal theory, and he is prepared to replace the attorney general, jeff rosen, with clark, who is at the civil division without any criminal background.
for what happened. i charged he charged the crowd. do you expect we will see trump prosecuted by the justice department on any of these charges? i do know, yeah. michael? i think there are 2 scenarios. one that is from a progressive point of view, one that is really positive, and one that is potentially very negative. the positive scenario, is a republican crackup, and the republican crackup kind of looks like trump is prosecuted, there is a rump faction of republican loyalists who stick with trump no matter what, while increasing numbers of people feel away from trump in that sort of ends up in a kind of weird equilibrium, where the party is frozen and incapable of moving forward. the alternative, is that trump becomes martyred, and if the prosecutions and whatever happens don t follow through in the correct way, then he is given renewed power.
be legally, a terrible idea for us. pat cipollone weighed in at one point, i remember saying you know, that letter that this guy wants to send, that letter is a murder suicide pact. he said something to the effect of please make sure we don t go up to the capital, cassidy. keep in touch with me, we are going to get charged with every crime imaginable. it would look like we were obstructing justice or obstructing the electoral college count. cassidy hutchinson there citing at least two felonies, that pat cipollone warned about. again in these eight hours today, these are things that we would expect he be asked about. nbc news is a source who says he has been a cooperative witness within the parameters of his desire to protect executive privilege in the office of the council. and then, there is a real distinction here, because executive privilege does exist for people who are not trying to commit crimes, who are not
concerned with? in the days leading up to the sixth, we had conversations about potentially obstructing justice or defrauding the electoral let s hear about some of those concerns that you mentioned earlier in one of your interviews with us. having a private conversation with pat late in the afternoon on the fourth, pat was concerned that it would look like we were obstructing justice or obstructing the electoral college count. [inaudible] i m not familiar with all the legal terms here. obstructing happening on capitol hill and he was also worried that it would look like we were inciting riots or