but it s clear that when it comes to fossil fuels, europe isn t necessarily going to follow america s lead. the german chancellor, olaf scholz, has made it plain that as far as he s concerned, it s simply not tenable to think of a boycott of russian gas in particular. so there s a division there, isn t there? well, you know, stephen, i think that s ok, because look, we import a lot less russian oil and gas than our european allies do. for sanctions to have an effect, it s not necessary that the europeans do every single thing that the united states does, or that the united states mimic every action that the europeans do. we want to be in lockstep as much as we can. we want to be coordinated. but sometimes that involves different countries taking different actions. and that s ok, because we have indeed and i want your viewers to know this we have indeed imposed
i think mistakes were made in the past, but i think those mistakes were actually of a completely different nature. i think the response after russia s invasion of georgia in 2008 was likely insufficient and more could have been done after 2014 as well. as far as nato, consider this. if we had not enlarged nato, and by the way, it wasn t nato that decided to expand into other countries, it is countries seeing the threat coming from russia, desperately wanting to join nato so that they could have some protection. well, with respect, it s a two way street, of course. you know, there is a feeling in many of the post soviet east european countries that they wanted the protection of nato, but the existing nato membership had to want to embrace them and feel that was a wise thing to do. i mean, you re a very experienced diplomat. did you never read george kennan before his death writing and saying, quote, expanding nato would be the most fateful error of american policy
the european continent. but let s not forget that this organisation was born of a set of dialogues that took place in the early 1970s, when indeed there was very little security or cooperation in europe at the time. and so we managed to carve out a space to have dialogue with the soviets back then, in the 1970s, it led to the adoption of the helsinki final act, which is today regarded as a flagship properly regarded as a flagship document that enshrines our common principles. but at the time, it was tough going. we re in a very difficult time now. it doesn t mean that this organisation is dead or that it doesn t serve a purpose, especially in the future. well, what service is it providing right now? you had the osce as an institution, had monitors in ukraine monitoring the front line of the eight year long conflict in the donbas region.
looking to get back in your type 2 diabetes zone? once-weekly ozempic® can help. oh, oh, oh, ozempic®! oh, oh, oh ozempic® is proven to lower a1c. most people who took ozempic® reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. and you may lose weight. adults lost on average up to 12 pounds. in adults also with known heart disease, ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as heart attack, stroke, or death. ozempic® helped me get back in my type 2 diabetes zone. ozempic® isn t for people with type 1 diabetes. don t share needles or pens, or reuse needles. don t take ozempic® if you or your family ever had medullary thyroid cancer, or have multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if allergic to it. stop ozempic® and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, or an allergic reaction. serious side effects may include pancreatitis. tell your provider about vision problems or changes. taking ozempic® with
but we have to look at how we can blunt this offensive and how we can impose such costs on the russian economy that if the leadership in the kremlin does not realise that something is going wrong, at least those around them will signal the alarm that this is not a sustainable posture. that s what we ve got to try to do. when people talk about. well, i mean, you re at the osce, organization for security cooperation in europe. i keep reminding myself of that phrase. when people talk of world war iii, do you think that is overblown? or are we very close? look, i wouldn t say that we re very close. but again, we have to manage the escalation risks in such a way that we do not end up pushing this conflict higher and higher up the escalatory ladder. i mean, certainly, there is the potential for that, and that is why wise and cool leadership is necessary at this