message. we don t have that here. we have cassidy hutchinson s testimony, the lawyer denying it but then lots of circumstances surrounding what happened with cassidy hutchinson. there were other people she spoke to about this. she went back to the committee herself because she felt she had done wrong by not revealing certain information. so if i were the prosecutor, i d be examining all of these different people that she spoke to. i d be looking at other witnesses that appeared before the committee who apparently were treated the same way by the lawyers that were paid for by the trump organization. and try and put together a case. it is not going to be as easy as it was in prosecuting roger stone. really important point. it also brings up the point you raised about the intersection of the politics of this. the idea that she was able to get or went on to get a different attorney. she felt she had trump looking
white house ethics lawyer at one point i might add, what do you make of it? there seems to be some reaction, a range i am seeing. either, well, is that what he really meant? was he trying to suborn perjury in some way or the run of the mill advice lawyers always give? no this is not the run of the mill advice lawyers always give. this was a very concerted effort to obstruct the committee and basically intimidate and influence a witness. both extremely serious felonies. witness tampering by itself is a 20-year felony. you don t tell a witness to say i don t recall when you actually recall. you don t tell a witness that if they say i don t recall you can t be charged with perjury. that is just not true.
trump lawyers calling her. she said, it felt like i almost had trump looking over my shoulder because i knew in some fashion it would get back to him if i said anything he would find disloyal. the thought of that genuinely scared me. i ve seen how vicious they can be. now i do want to note that all of this is stemming from something that happened earlier in the week. we heard from the january 6th committee alleging that a trump-backed lawyer was trying to coach his client to say, i don t really. cnn then reported that it was stefan pasatino, the former white house ethics lawyer. he has not responded to the transcript, but here s what he said to that first story. he said, i believed ms. hutchinson was being truthful and cooperative with the committee throughout several interview sessions in which i represented her. victor, i want to be clear. this is not the only mention here of some kind of person
and then he told her not to and said this, contempt is a small risk, but running to the right is better for you. now, a couple things to note here. these are two interviews from september after we saw that live interview and after she had moved on from passantino. this, again, is why she said she had that breaking point and as you ll remember on monday the january 6th committee alleged they had information that a white house or excuse me, a trump backed attorney had been pressuring their client in this way to say essentially downplayed their testimony or maybe say they don t recall and cnn found out that was former white house lawyer ethics lawyer, stefan passantino. just to give you insight into what else is here this is what she said he told her to say specifically. i want to make it clear to you stefan never told me to lie. he specifically told me i don t want you to perjury yourself but i don t recall isn t perjury. they don t know what you can and can t recall.
artificial intelligence reference? i am. i mean, you are on the edge. you are on the cutting edge, might have gone over ruth, did it go over your head? no. yeah, and ruth is i got it. oh, you did get it. it didn t go over your head? i did. i got it. she got it. it might have gone over some of our heads. he s talking new ai. on a slower news day we re going to have to nerd out on the ai. i appreciate the point, take us to your part two. yeah, so part two is just to zoom in on this interaction that she talks about with her first attorney, cassidy hutchinson s first attorney, stefan passantino. this is the guy who is trump s white house ethics lawyer. he s being paid by some unknown entity. she doesn t even know who s paying the legal bills, and he is acting par for the course for a trump attorney. so at page 55 of the transcript released today, ari, you know, she says that she comes out of