journalists, as voters, as, you know, lawmakers in congress to actually address that and fix that, and that s really why we wrote this series, to urge lawmakers, you know, beyond the doj prosecuting trump if they have enough evidence, but to urge lawmakers to pass a set of reforms to restrain future presidents from abusing their power, and if congress fails to do that, then you know, the end of american democracy s in our lifetime, and i don t say that just to, you know, be hyperbolic or alarmist about this. i say this because, you know, already, we re seeing the erosion of american democracy accelerate after trump left office, state after state after state, the republican legislatures, you know, just going after our voting rights, and congress, with the help of joe manchin, refusing to protect us. and refusing to protect voting rights. and so the next trump and i want to be very clear about this the next trump that
searching you or me, and issue letters that proverdict you or me from letting anyone know that you are being investigated. sounds like a third world country, doesn t it? so a decade later, the national debate continues. is it time to do away with what was presented as a temporary suspension of american civil liberties in the context of the 9/11 attacks? it s been ten years. that s a question our next guest raises, extensively in fact, as president of the aclu and in her new book, taking liberties, the war on terror and the erosion of american democracy. we welcome susan herman to the show. congratulations on the book. thank you, dylan. at the end of the day this was a country built at its founding to the rejection of an oppressive government, allegation of power through wealth in western europe. this country was built in