a well run board, and that board has to be respected. mr campbell, let s bring you in. i mean, i thought emily s speech was was thoughtful, and interesting and insightful, and, you know that there are people within the bbc still there who do broadly agree with what she s saying, but obviously feel that they can t necessarily articulate that in the same way. i feel the bbc has lost its confidence. i m going tojump in there and say, i m not speaking for any colleagues, but i m sure there will be people within the bbc who agreed with emily maitlis and people who didn t. yeah, sure, absolutely. that s exactly what i said. so my point is. i don t really know why you had to clarify that. that s exactly the point i made. my point is that while you re working within the bbc, you can t necessarily articulate that in the way that she did in the very high profile lecture, where, as adam says, she did some pretty good promotion for her new product withjon. but i think that the bbc has lost its con
and i think that it is very difficult at the moment seeing the populism that there is around the world, that we ve got to rethink that. and i think that is the argument that emily was seeking to make. well, she s making a broad argument. she was using specific examples to make it. nosheen iqbalfrom today in focus from the guardian, let s ask you about these broader challenges of impartiality and how we deal with the the information sometimes incorrect information coming from politicians and others. what are the processes that you go through at the guardian with your podcast to make sure that you re both fair, but also that you don t dodge calling something, to usejon s phrase? well, for us, this is slightly different, and our podcast. is slightly different in the sensel that when we don t have a panel of such of people that are debating an issue and we have to. - call them out on one thing or the other. - it s it s more narrative. so, the news podcast that we make is just telli
to join us on this edition, but we will hear from jon sopel we re also going to hear from deano sophos, the man behind this new podcast, someone the times has called the new prince of podcasts. deano, good to have you on the programme. that s quite a title to live up to. thanks, ros. yeah, well, it s nice to, nice to talk to you. yeah, it s look, it was a lovely piece and a shock to have a profile in the times. but, you know, ithink what i did at the bbc in terms of launching brexitcast, which was our first hit podcast, and then americast withjon and emily and then the daily newscast. i mean, overthe time i was there at the bbc, they accrued 85 million downloads. so i think what i created at the bbc was successful and has enabled us to launch what we re doing here on the news agents. and just quickly, you re
the word liar in your new podcast than you would have been able to at the bbc. but that s a difficult word to use, isn t it, because you need to know someone s mind? well, i mean, if you were to give an example that emily used in her speech, you know, there are times where we can just call something wrong or we can call it a lie. i mean, to be honest, i don t want to speak on behalf of our presenters, ijust know that, you know, there were examples on americast where, you know, i think even during recordings, we probably said, well, that s a lie. and actually at the bbc, you just don t say that. but actually i think the line has moved slightly. jon and emily aren t suddenly going to become shockjocks. but, you know, we do have the ability now to call something out. and i think that s what i was saying. you d feel more comfortable calling somebody a liar, jon, on global? well, i think the line i drew when i was in washington and i mean, i read that interview, the headline said that w
of reassurance directly to the government itself. that s something a little more explicit, isn t it? yeah. look, emily made her speech and thought very carefully about it and spoke about her experiences of it and what it made her feel. and we have, you know, we ve put the whole of that speech up on the podcast, on the news agents podcast for people to listen to and make their ownjudgments. i sort of worry that there is, you know, what emily was trying to do was to make a much bigger argument about impartiality, about how you do political reporting in an age of populism, and how, you know, if you believe in liberal democracy and, you know, yeah, let me let me state an opinion outright, loud, clear. i really like free and fair elections. i like a liberal democracy. i like the rule of law. i like the peaceful transfer of power. and if you want a well informed electorate, you ve got to challenge fake news.