and if you ve got a board, they should be expressing opinion about the product of the company or the organisation which they represent. and this kind of notion that dimbleby and emily maitlis seem to have that somehow it s wrong for boards the bbc board or whatever its constituted to have some comments. itjust shocks me. a well run organisation needs a well run board, and that board has to be respected. mr campbell, let s bring you in. i mean, i thought emily s speech was was thoughtful, and interesting and insightful, and, you know that there are people within the bbc still there who do broadly agree with what she s saying, but obviously feel that they can t necessarily articulate that in the same way. i feel the bbc has lost its confidence. i m going tojump in there and say, i m not speaking for any colleagues, but i m sure there will be people within the bbc who agreed with emily maitlis and people who didn t. yeah, sure, absolutely. that s exactly what i said. so my point is. i
it s called the news agents. it s from global, and it s presented byjon sopel and emily maitlis, both big figures at the bbc before they left to set this up. emily maitlis has also been in the news because she gave a mactaggart lecture in which she raised concerns about how the bbc is approaching some parts of its coverage. now, emily is not able to join us on this edition, but we will hear from jon sopel. we re also going to hear from deano sophos, the man behind this new podcast, someone the times has called the new prince of podcasts. deano, good to have you on the programme. that s quite a title to live up to. thanks, ros. yeah, well, it s nice to, nice to talk to you. yeah, it s look, it was a lovely piece and a shock to have a profile in the times. but, you know, ithink what i did at the bbc in terms of launching brexitcast, which was our first hit podcast, and then americast withjon and emily and then the daily newscast.
a big a problem as emily suggested, because i think the audience is intelligent, and they can listen to the two arguments and they can work it out for themselves, provided one side or the other is not allowed to lie by the interviewer. and i think the interviewer is able to step in. 0n the, you know, the other issue which she raised about, you know, there being people who work for the tory party on the bbc board. and incidentally, something that david dimbleby was going on about on the television last night i honestly cannot understand that. if you have a board, it should have people with a wide range of views, and if you ve got a board, they should be expressing opinion about the product of the company or the organisation which they represent. and this kind of notion that dimbleby and emily maitlis seem to have that somehow it s wrong for boards the bbc board or whatever its constituted to have some comments. itjust shocks me. a well run organisation needs
alastair, actually, was the first person who raised this issue in a rather more sophisticated way, talking about moral equivalence, that, you know, if you get both sides of an argument, then when you present them, each one appears to have equal value. my own. ..position on this is that i don t think it s as quite a big a problem as emily suggested, because i think the audience is intelligent, and they can listen to the two arguments and they can work it out for themselves, provided one side or the other is not allowed to lie by the interviewer. and i think the interviewer is able to step in. 0n the, you know, the other issue which she raised about, you know, there being people who work for the tory party on the bbc board. and incidentally, something that david dimbleby was going on about on the television last night. i honestly cannot understand that. if you have a board, it should have people with a wide range of views,
there s less. well, there is, like, calling people out on their facts and stuff, but there isn t. impartiality, i mean, - we have guardianjournalists on the show showcasing their work, so that s not an issue. and so that s how you do it at the guardian. deano, you said in one recent interview that you d be much more comfortable saying the word liar in your new podcast than you would have been able to at the bbc. but that s a difficult word to use, isn t it, because you need to know someone s mind? well, i mean, if you were to give an example that emily used in her speech, you know, there are times where we can just call something wrong or we can call it a lie. i mean, to be honest, i don t want to speak on behalf of our presenters, ijust know that, you know, there were examples on americast where, you know, i think even during recordings, we probably said, well, that s a lie. and actually at the bbc, you just don t say that. but actually i think the line has moved slightly.